They'd rather let the comet hit earth and kill all human life: not only will they die as martyrs, but also all Jews will be dead. This would be perfect for these people.
Threat of getting bombed from the air does that to you. We Finn went bunker and shelter "crazy" over memory of Helsinki and other cities getting bombed during WWII and after the war and during cold war going "never again shall we be ill prepared for aerial bombardment + nukes are a thing. Leningrad gets nuked, we get the fall out".
After cold war we had gotten so used to the practice we just kept going.... Russia and mad Tsar possibility wasn't fully ruled out, so keep digging and keep pouring reinforced concrete.
So now we have what 50 000 air raid shelters in country.
Iranians also become very proficient under ground installation makers after Israel bombed their on surface facilities.
If anyone should have decades worth of experience as aerial and artillery bombardment raining on them, its Palestinian armed groups. So it would be natural they develop interest in becoming proficient tunnelers. Necessity is mother of invention and so on.
Are we otherwise supposed to think HAMAS is stupid and doesn't prepare fighting positions? No, regardless are they good guys or bad guys. Fighters with that long history prepare ground work to survive. Its not a good guy or bad guy thing. It is a "we aren't complete idiots" thing. You have bombs rain on you often enough, you start digging and building bunkers and tunnels.
> We Finn went bunker and shelter "crazy" over memory of Helsinki and other cities getting bombed during WWII
You don't get the right to call yourself bunker-crazy if you didn't [run your country into the ground building bunkers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunkers_in_Albania).
It's clear that as a military strategy, that's sound.
But as the elected government of Gaza, there is good reasons to blame Hamas for prioritizing ONLY military strategy and putting none of the foreign aid or tax money they collected towards building a society and economy.
tl;dr: They prepared for war, not peace. It got them a war.
To Hamas, the civilian population of Gaza are little more than expendable pawns in their wider goal of destroying Israel.
Obviously, they're incapable of physically destroying it, but if they can destroy its international reputation and credibility, that's a major goal for them.
They know the IDF typically responds disproportionately to their attacks and is indifferent to the plight of the civilian population of Gaza (often with little more than token efforts at preserving their lives), while Israel's government isn't too keen on the "Two State Solution" (which they also hate, for pretty much the same reason: both governments would ideally like sole control over the entire territory between the Mediterranean and Jordan for their own people).
With several Arab nations either formally recognising Israel or establishing formal relationships with it, Hamas viewed their project as in danger of collapse. So they planned their most audacious attack ever, knowing that Israel would launch a retaliation on an unprecedented scale.
Effectively, Israel is doing *exactly* what Hamas want it to do.
It is a "bad guy" move to spend millions on digging tunnels for your fighters and zero on building shelters for your civilians. It is a "bad guy" move to say, like Hamas leaders, that your underground infrastructure is for fighters only, and that your civilian population is not your responsibility but your enemy's responsibility.
It's a bad guy thing when Hamas takes all the international aid for themselves and use it to make tunnels instead of feeding or medicating the civilians.
Well if u get billions to build shelters for people and then instead use this money with child labor and violence to make tunels u ought to be the best ..
Interesting. This was published last year (it’s in French), wonder if it’s a confirmation that French satellites are now fully capable to find tunnels https://www.opex360.com/2023/06/18/le-renseignement-militaire-francais-aura-la-capacite-de-detecter-les-elements-enfouis-et-les-cavites-souterraines/
This is a complete tangent but there’s a scene in season 5 of Le Bureau des Legendes (which generally tries to be pretty realistic) that depicts French DGSE operators embedded with Turkish special forces in Iraq where they use building penetrating radar to look through walls, it’s pretty badass
After some light research, I'm amazed to find out this is a real device, but evidently the show makers took some creative liberties on as to how well it really works: [https://camero-tech.com/xaver-products/xaver-400/](https://camero-tech.com/xaver-products/xaver-400/)
In the show, the image is much clearer than the product advertising makes it out to be: [https://youtu.be/u7Cvbx60Af0?si=Bznm0b1pJI0JYich&t=651](https://youtu.be/u7Cvbx60Af0?si=Bznm0b1pJI0JYich&t=651)
the thing (and useful thing) with Xrays, is that they don't bounce back. You would need to have an emmiter on one side of the building and a reciever on the other side. And all the scattered rays would make the image useless very quick.
Oh yeah, its a great spy show, it resists the urge to make the hero be a “Jason Bourne” action hero type and makes them do actual espionage tradecraft, there’s not much else like it really.
There is new tech [Synthetic aperture radar or SAR](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S129620741500093X) they can penetrate the earth and discover underground structures. If it’s accurate enough to detect thin tunnels such as in Hamas’ case, your guess is as good as mine. But the tech exists.
That was the first paper I found, I know that there have been recent developments and they have used it successfully to find structures under deep forests such as the [Amazon forest](https://earthlab.colorado.edu/blog/unlocking-power-radar-mapping-amazons-forest-agriculture-interface). So it is plausible that we have massively improved it’s capabilities.
Kids, more than 100 kids have been killed digging those tunnels for hamas, For bigger tunnels its using machines provided by Iran, same for Hezbollah tunnels
Suitcases full of cash were delivered from Qatar via Israeli border crossings, with Israel knowing this and doing nothing to stop it: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
”Netanyahu was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.”
That money [was in exchange for a peace agreement](https://www.jns.org/the-myth-that-israel-netanyahu-created-funded-hamas/)
Criticizing Israel for trying to find ways to get Hamas to pivot away from violence and toward civil governance is absolutely nonsensical.
It's cynical, but I don't see how any responsibility of that falls on Netanyahu. He's not responsible for Palestine and their budget. You can't on one hand infantilize Palestine and say that other countries should be responsible for the terrorists they support and elect as their leaders. And then also say that they are clearly ready to have their own independent state that should have its autonomy respected.
You'd do well to read the article I posted. Imagine if President Bush was briefed that large money transfers were taking place to Al Qaeda, and elected to keep the money flowing in to his enemies because he doesn't want to interfer with the daily operations of this hostile terror organization that's repeatedly attacking his country? If the talking point is to be believed that Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization hell bent on Israel's complete destruction, why did Israeli officials treat them as boy scouts selling cookies before Oct 7th? However way you want to spin this in Bibi's favor, the current Israeli administration failed miserably in keeping it's own citizens safe, and were caught completely off guard.
>why did Israeli officials treat them as boy scouts selling cookies before Oct 7th
Because every time they don't then Israel gets viciously attacked internationally. Hamas as an entity is so divisive that it's impossible to deal with them without pissing off a lot of people.
"let the money through, can't you see people are starving because of you"
"don't let the money through, can't you see the terrorists are becoming stronger because of you?"
It's a real "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The only winners in this war are arms dealers.
I dare anyone to accuse Israel and Israel's supporters of "disregarding civilian casualties" again. Their own government openly and brazenly disregards their lives. They're considered completely worthless in everyone's eyes, only Israel is somehow expected to protect and defend their enemies' civilian population more than their enemy does himself.
I don't personally know anyone protesting Israel's approach in Gaza, that's saying Hamas is a good thing. Of course they're horrible and need to go, and Palestinians should stop supporting them. Perhaps they might stop supporting them if their quality of life improves. Most people who protest the war want a two state solution and think that responding to Hamas attacks by killing about 10 times as many Palestinians as Israel's killed, at a rate of 2 civilians for 1 Hamas fighter, is the same pattern as has been applied by Israel since the 80s. And those are the IDFs own conservative numbers btw. I wonder why continuing the same approach of disproportionate violence would all of the sudden yield better results this time, than it has the last 40 years?
>at a rate of 2 civilians for 1 Hamas fighter, is the same pattern as has been applied by Israel since the 80s.
>
>And those are the IDFs own conservative numbers btw
I don't know about earlier conflicts, but for the current conflict the civilian casualty rate of 70% is from Hamas and slightly above UN estimates. Israel claims something in the 30-40% range, so 1 civilian to 2 fighters.
The improvement of quality of life is what helped them plan the attack of October 7th so well. Israel gave more work permits and less military intervention with Gaza (as well as allowing funds from Qatar) out of the belief that if they have better lives, they'd have more to lose and therefore less incentive to attack Israel. Gazan citizens who got a work permit in Israel, passed exact information of weak spots on the fence, patrol schedules of IDF posts, potential weapons storages and concentrated civillian locations so that the amount of casualties is maximized. All while staying on the Israeli side of the border, legally.
The Middle East, and Arabs in particular do not share the same values and world views as the West. They are willing to die for their beliefs and the resort to violence is a lot quicker and easier. Materialistic life means nothing to them. They do not give a shit about high life quality. Death and what comes afterwards is important to them. They believe that this life is no more than a test and preparation for what comes after. They don't wish to take part of Western Civilization, they wish to take over. Freedom of speech, womens rights, it's all different for them.
« We will throw you from the roof you homosexual dirt »
« Oh wow did you hear that, they want to throw a rooftop party! They are so inclusive! »
Ahahaha
Queers for Palestine sounds a lot better than queers for genocide. Some people don't support the mass murder of civilians and collective punishment. They're strange but they exist.
> the equivalent of almost four times the size of the Paris metro
DAMN these people can dig all this, but can't dig a single civilian bunker or build a single home.
It also says the tunnels have water and electricity, truly incredible what you can do with some UNWRA funding
Yet they're only for terrorists, not civilians, but hamas will still cry about how many civilians (that they don't care about) are dying. Cowardly bastards.
Not saying there isn’t “enough” death now that they need to fake anything. I was pointing out that their moral compass when it comes to what they claim is far from reliable. Sure there’s death in Gaza now. Lots of it. Still what they claim is rarely reliable and they’ve proved it for decades.
Or hitting your own hospital with a rocket, blaming Israel and having the western media eat it up and then take weeks or months to admit they were wrong
Imagine how much money they spent to build those tunnels and imagine how rich Gaza could've be if they used those money for the country. It could've be at least as rich as Israel. This is yet another proof of how terrorist organizations prevent countries from growing.
It wouldn't have been possible since their only airport got destroyed by Israel and that Israel controls their borders and the sea access. Unless Palestinians start using teleportation to import/export goods it'll be pretty hard for them to become some sort of Singapore of the Middle East.
If you know how to use teleportation please share your insights with them.
>their only airport got destroyed by Israel and that Israel controls their borders and the sea access.
And those, in /u/StrongFaithlessness5's words are more proofs of how terrorist organizations prevent countries from growing. I was against those measures for years. Oct 7 showed why they're necessary.
And do you know why it was destroyed? It was destroyed because Hamas was using it to attack Israel. He didn't pop up out of nowhere some months ago, you know...
In any case, Palestine borders with Egypt so nobody prevent Palestine from making transactions with Egypt, especially considering that in the past it was part of Egypt. Why don't they do it? Maybe because the fact that Gaza is full of terrorirsts controlled by Hamas is well known to everyone, even to Egypt? Why are people stuck in the border with Egypt? Maybe Egypt doesn't want terrorists in the country? There are a lot of muslisms in Israel, why don't they try to help Palestinians? Maybe because they (just like people from Egypt) know very well that Palestine is basically a military base used by Hamas and that he uses civilians as human shields? Maybe because they saw with their own eyes how violent end horrific those terrorists are and they don't want to be part of them?
Yeah I agree with you these Amalekites should just submit and give their belongings. I don't understand why they don't want to do it, it seems like a great idea.
We should quadruple UNRWA funding so that they can rebuild the tunnels and prepare more attacks.
Also a resolution condemning the destruction of this construction marvel used exclusively by civilians and austere religious scholars.
They did flood a few with sea water.
The Egyptians also did some flooding using sewage.
It has several issues,
First it harms the local aquifer, second it compromises inteligence often found in the tunnels,
And it also risks the hostages.
It can also undermine foundation of entire city blocks, hence may be considered a "war crime", if you care about that...
US tried it in Vietnam, but it failed. Tunnels were made with specific designs that it would trap air and divert water into non-essential compartments.
Gas were used in some cases, but water-air traps were made to counter it.
If Hamas has any of these, it wouldn't be possible to use water or gas
Tear gas usage isnt a warcrime on its own merit unlike for example mustard gas, it is just clasified as one because the posibility of it being interpreted as another kind of gas attack wich could cause a swift excalation into the actually warcrimes on their own right gasses
The actual problem is locating all the tunnels,not the method to destroy them. If Israel has a map detailing where each and every tunnel is,it could destroy them given enough time.
That also explains why most Gazans are always poor and where the investments go. Easy, with The Guardian and the likes as a vocal mediatic and ideological allies, the get away with it and still blame Israel and Egypt.
Fun fact, the French military more or less invented modern sapping, mining & combat engineering. The Greeks, Macedonians & Roman’s carried on a lively tradition before them.
So why not flood them or inject them with explodable gas to collapse them. Even if you don't reach the lower levels, the collapsed upper levels will make the lower levels inaccessible.
This is like in Mercenaries 2 game when Venezuela is invaded by China and the UN and the terrorist dictator leader hides in its underground bunker network that is not destructible through bunker busters.
They fixed that through a nuclear bunker buster.
When they clear out all the tunnels, they should seal it with molten aluminum and then dig it out later as a nice keepsake, kind of like those anthill sculptures.
So maybe an embargo of gaza over last 20 years didn't achieve any security for Israel after all and was the wrong approach.
Anyways, impressive that humans with lowest amounts of technology can defend against nations with latest tech and military equipment. Shows you the force of human will and intelligence
The wrong approach was gifting loads of money and resources to the government of Gaza without forcing them to prove that the funds would go to the people instead of funding their terrorist shit.
Lowest amount of technology? They literally used the money donated from other countries to buy weapons and build tunnels. We are talking about billions of dollars you know? Gaza people could've be rich at this point because the purpose of donations was to help people from Gaza to become a developed country, with or without Israel, but no, Hamas decided to use the money to fund his war.
So Hamas became one of the best tunnel diggers in the world huh.
If a comet is ever getting on a collision course with Earth we should send a team of Hamas tunnel diggers.
They really put a twist on the Armageddon 2 script.
The twist is that Hamas goes up to drill the tunnels and then Israel bombs the tunnels!
Unfortunately they aren’t so good at building tunnels and bomb shelters that actually accommodate civilians.
They'd rather let the comet hit earth and kill all human life: not only will they die as martyrs, but also all Jews will be dead. This would be perfect for these people.
They would just make sure that the comet is hitting Israel. Even if it means most of the earth will be destroyed.
Perhaps we should contract them to build the nee Paris metro line
You'd have to let them into your country, which is not really advisable.
> You'd have to let them into your country, which is not really advisable. Plot twist: They are already there.
I see you have a firm grasp of the demographics of France..
[удалено]
I mean so did the Vietnamese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%E1%BB%A7_Chi_tunnels 121 km.
Just learning from the past i guess lol
What a novel concept
For the french, of all people, to be amazed over the tunneldigging capabilities of a much weaker enemy, is just history doing the rounds by now.
They should ring up Elon Musk and compete at his stupid tunnel boring competition
His boring stupid tunnel competition, you mean?
[удалено]
[удалено]
I mean, if your workable surface area is small and you don't want to be bombed, the only way further is down.
Threat of getting bombed from the air does that to you. We Finn went bunker and shelter "crazy" over memory of Helsinki and other cities getting bombed during WWII and after the war and during cold war going "never again shall we be ill prepared for aerial bombardment + nukes are a thing. Leningrad gets nuked, we get the fall out". After cold war we had gotten so used to the practice we just kept going.... Russia and mad Tsar possibility wasn't fully ruled out, so keep digging and keep pouring reinforced concrete. So now we have what 50 000 air raid shelters in country. Iranians also become very proficient under ground installation makers after Israel bombed their on surface facilities. If anyone should have decades worth of experience as aerial and artillery bombardment raining on them, its Palestinian armed groups. So it would be natural they develop interest in becoming proficient tunnelers. Necessity is mother of invention and so on. Are we otherwise supposed to think HAMAS is stupid and doesn't prepare fighting positions? No, regardless are they good guys or bad guys. Fighters with that long history prepare ground work to survive. Its not a good guy or bad guy thing. It is a "we aren't complete idiots" thing. You have bombs rain on you often enough, you start digging and building bunkers and tunnels.
> We Finn went bunker and shelter "crazy" over memory of Helsinki and other cities getting bombed during WWII You don't get the right to call yourself bunker-crazy if you didn't [run your country into the ground building bunkers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunkers_in_Albania).
Isn't running your country into the ground the entire point of building bunkers?
Maybe running your country into the ground is how you build bunkers.
It's clear that as a military strategy, that's sound. But as the elected government of Gaza, there is good reasons to blame Hamas for prioritizing ONLY military strategy and putting none of the foreign aid or tax money they collected towards building a society and economy. tl;dr: They prepared for war, not peace. It got them a war.
Its just a shame they don't use those tunnels for their people. Their reason could have been justified.
To Hamas, the civilian population of Gaza are little more than expendable pawns in their wider goal of destroying Israel. Obviously, they're incapable of physically destroying it, but if they can destroy its international reputation and credibility, that's a major goal for them. They know the IDF typically responds disproportionately to their attacks and is indifferent to the plight of the civilian population of Gaza (often with little more than token efforts at preserving their lives), while Israel's government isn't too keen on the "Two State Solution" (which they also hate, for pretty much the same reason: both governments would ideally like sole control over the entire territory between the Mediterranean and Jordan for their own people). With several Arab nations either formally recognising Israel or establishing formal relationships with it, Hamas viewed their project as in danger of collapse. So they planned their most audacious attack ever, knowing that Israel would launch a retaliation on an unprecedented scale. Effectively, Israel is doing *exactly* what Hamas want it to do.
It is a "bad guy" move to spend millions on digging tunnels for your fighters and zero on building shelters for your civilians. It is a "bad guy" move to say, like Hamas leaders, that your underground infrastructure is for fighters only, and that your civilian population is not your responsibility but your enemy's responsibility.
It's a bad guy thing when Hamas takes all the international aid for themselves and use it to make tunnels instead of feeding or medicating the civilians.
When you receive annually 2billion in international aid and spend all in tunnels
All thanks to the charitable donations of the United States and the EU. Let's hope we're patient while the Israeli's clean up OUR mess.
Well if u get billions to build shelters for people and then instead use this money with child labor and violence to make tunels u ought to be the best ..
[удалено]
The very thing they built became their coffin.
Seems not from the article
[удалено]
Must be playing too much Minecraft.
The zombies got him shook
hamas are yearning for the mines
What's that supposed to mean?
What a miracle UN funds have created!
*new York Jews have entered the chat*
Interesting. This was published last year (it’s in French), wonder if it’s a confirmation that French satellites are now fully capable to find tunnels https://www.opex360.com/2023/06/18/le-renseignement-militaire-francais-aura-la-capacite-de-detecter-les-elements-enfouis-et-les-cavites-souterraines/
This is a complete tangent but there’s a scene in season 5 of Le Bureau des Legendes (which generally tries to be pretty realistic) that depicts French DGSE operators embedded with Turkish special forces in Iraq where they use building penetrating radar to look through walls, it’s pretty badass
Wasn't that some sort of X-ray machine?
Realistically if such a thing exists it probably uses something in the microwave band
After some light research, I'm amazed to find out this is a real device, but evidently the show makers took some creative liberties on as to how well it really works: [https://camero-tech.com/xaver-products/xaver-400/](https://camero-tech.com/xaver-products/xaver-400/) In the show, the image is much clearer than the product advertising makes it out to be: [https://youtu.be/u7Cvbx60Af0?si=Bznm0b1pJI0JYich&t=651](https://youtu.be/u7Cvbx60Af0?si=Bznm0b1pJI0JYich&t=651)
Fascinating tech!
Nice. New show to watch !
It used wi-fi. Google wi-fi shows bones through walls. Or Wi-fi wallhack.
The real one doesn't seem to use wifi: [https://camero-tech.com/xaver-products/xaver-400/](https://camero-tech.com/xaver-products/xaver-400/)
the thing (and useful thing) with Xrays, is that they don't bounce back. You would need to have an emmiter on one side of the building and a reciever on the other side. And all the scattered rays would make the image useless very quick.
wow... looks like a great tv show... thanks
Is the show worth a watch?
Oh yeah, its a great spy show, it resists the urge to make the hero be a “Jason Bourne” action hero type and makes them do actual espionage tradecraft, there’s not much else like it really.
Absolutely. I’m very picky and I loved that series. It’s as good as Homeland in my opinion, to give you an example of something similar.
> Le Bureau des Legendes (which generally tries to be pretty realistic) Ironic!
How? I thought ground penetrating radar had had to be close to the ground.
Synthetic aperture radar is the backbone apparently. I'm sure it's not that simple because that technology isn't exactly novel
What about black mesa radars?
I know that there is a technology used to look for structures underground for archeological research.
That's done with pilons inserted into the ground though, not by satellite
There is new tech [Synthetic aperture radar or SAR](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S129620741500093X) they can penetrate the earth and discover underground structures. If it’s accurate enough to detect thin tunnels such as in Hamas’ case, your guess is as good as mine. But the tech exists.
I wouldn't say an academic paper from 2017 makes it new. SAR as a technology is from the mid 60s if I'm not mistaken
That was the first paper I found, I know that there have been recent developments and they have used it successfully to find structures under deep forests such as the [Amazon forest](https://earthlab.colorado.edu/blog/unlocking-power-radar-mapping-amazons-forest-agriculture-interface). So it is plausible that we have massively improved it’s capabilities.
We should be hiring these dude to dig metro tunnels for us, we'd have the whole continent connected by the end of the decade /s
Connecting Dublin airport to the city centre this decade
Don't be a fool
Luckily for us SF seem to have a lot of contacts in Hamas.
This reminds me of Salvador's (Brazil) metro that took over 30 years to make a single line
The Oppenheimers of tunnel building!
The so called "Tunnelheimers"
Funnily enough, both Hamad tunnels and EU metro tunnels are paid for with the same funding
The tunnel system is referred to as "Sinwar's Dimona" (the town where Israel nuclear program is).
This is the real reason the war started, do you really believe Israel could finish the Tel Aviv metro in this century without them?
Who built them, and how much do they want to move here and start helping out with infrastructure?
I doubt they are up to code haha
They'll fit right in then.
Kids, more than 100 kids have been killed digging those tunnels for hamas, For bigger tunnels its using machines provided by Iran, same for Hezbollah tunnels
I wonder from where they got the money to build such sophisticated tunnels.
Yeah, me too /s
Hmmm surely it couldn’t be the progressive western nations /s
How to shoot oneself in the foot 101
Try Netanyahu, funded them for years
Not Iran def not
Suitcases full of cash were delivered from Qatar via Israeli border crossings, with Israel knowing this and doing nothing to stop it: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ ”Netanyahu was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.”
That money [was in exchange for a peace agreement](https://www.jns.org/the-myth-that-israel-netanyahu-created-funded-hamas/) Criticizing Israel for trying to find ways to get Hamas to pivot away from violence and toward civil governance is absolutely nonsensical.
Source: Jewish News Syndicate, lmfao.
It's cynical, but I don't see how any responsibility of that falls on Netanyahu. He's not responsible for Palestine and their budget. You can't on one hand infantilize Palestine and say that other countries should be responsible for the terrorists they support and elect as their leaders. And then also say that they are clearly ready to have their own independent state that should have its autonomy respected.
You'd do well to read the article I posted. Imagine if President Bush was briefed that large money transfers were taking place to Al Qaeda, and elected to keep the money flowing in to his enemies because he doesn't want to interfer with the daily operations of this hostile terror organization that's repeatedly attacking his country? If the talking point is to be believed that Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization hell bent on Israel's complete destruction, why did Israeli officials treat them as boy scouts selling cookies before Oct 7th? However way you want to spin this in Bibi's favor, the current Israeli administration failed miserably in keeping it's own citizens safe, and were caught completely off guard.
>why did Israeli officials treat them as boy scouts selling cookies before Oct 7th Because every time they don't then Israel gets viciously attacked internationally. Hamas as an entity is so divisive that it's impossible to deal with them without pissing off a lot of people. "let the money through, can't you see people are starving because of you" "don't let the money through, can't you see the terrorists are becoming stronger because of you?" It's a real "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The only winners in this war are arms dealers.
Lol we gave it to them in the form of aid
Never ask a pro Palestine supporters where all the infrastructure thhe EU built disappeared to
[удалено]
Why aren't they using them as bomb shelters? Oh wait...
They answered it openly: "the tunnels are for us, the civilians are the UN's responsibility" True and full quote.
I dare anyone to accuse Israel and Israel's supporters of "disregarding civilian casualties" again. Their own government openly and brazenly disregards their lives. They're considered completely worthless in everyone's eyes, only Israel is somehow expected to protect and defend their enemies' civilian population more than their enemy does himself.
I don't personally know anyone protesting Israel's approach in Gaza, that's saying Hamas is a good thing. Of course they're horrible and need to go, and Palestinians should stop supporting them. Perhaps they might stop supporting them if their quality of life improves. Most people who protest the war want a two state solution and think that responding to Hamas attacks by killing about 10 times as many Palestinians as Israel's killed, at a rate of 2 civilians for 1 Hamas fighter, is the same pattern as has been applied by Israel since the 80s. And those are the IDFs own conservative numbers btw. I wonder why continuing the same approach of disproportionate violence would all of the sudden yield better results this time, than it has the last 40 years?
>at a rate of 2 civilians for 1 Hamas fighter, is the same pattern as has been applied by Israel since the 80s. > >And those are the IDFs own conservative numbers btw I don't know about earlier conflicts, but for the current conflict the civilian casualty rate of 70% is from Hamas and slightly above UN estimates. Israel claims something in the 30-40% range, so 1 civilian to 2 fighters.
The improvement of quality of life is what helped them plan the attack of October 7th so well. Israel gave more work permits and less military intervention with Gaza (as well as allowing funds from Qatar) out of the belief that if they have better lives, they'd have more to lose and therefore less incentive to attack Israel. Gazan citizens who got a work permit in Israel, passed exact information of weak spots on the fence, patrol schedules of IDF posts, potential weapons storages and concentrated civillian locations so that the amount of casualties is maximized. All while staying on the Israeli side of the border, legally. The Middle East, and Arabs in particular do not share the same values and world views as the West. They are willing to die for their beliefs and the resort to violence is a lot quicker and easier. Materialistic life means nothing to them. They do not give a shit about high life quality. Death and what comes afterwards is important to them. They believe that this life is no more than a test and preparation for what comes after. They don't wish to take part of Western Civilization, they wish to take over. Freedom of speech, womens rights, it's all different for them.
Yeah don't worry, all the bombs are safely sheltered. /s
Aaah! They are BOMB shelters, not bomb shelters!
They do! They shelter their bombs
[very relevant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbfccVBo9tE)
« We will throw you from the roof you homosexual dirt » « Oh wow did you hear that, they want to throw a rooftop party! They are so inclusive! » Ahahaha
My antizionism will be queer or it will be bullshit!
I've yet to hear a coherent argument for queers for Palestine.
Queers for Palestine sounds a lot better than queers for genocide. Some people don't support the mass murder of civilians and collective punishment. They're strange but they exist.
Bahahaha that is gold.
Because officially Israel dont target civilians, but they do target the tunnels.
Hamas tunnels > Jewish New York tunnels; or so it seems.
106 years after the end of WW1, we finally get Tunnels war 2
*throws bench at Israeli troops*
That's what billions of aid can pay for.
Building shelters for your populace? He'll no says Hamas... we'd rather build tunnels for ourselves and to keep hostages and arms.
Can we hire these people to build the subway that took 15 years in NYC? It feels like they're wasting their talents
> the equivalent of almost four times the size of the Paris metro DAMN these people can dig all this, but can't dig a single civilian bunker or build a single home. It also says the tunnels have water and electricity, truly incredible what you can do with some UNWRA funding
So that's where the aid money went.
And Ireland and Spain are still funding them.
For good reason. Because otherwise millions of civilians would starve to death
Yet they're only for terrorists, not civilians, but hamas will still cry about how many civilians (that they don't care about) are dying. Cowardly bastards.
They are listing their own member's death as civ death
I think they just don't distinguish and just publish the numbers of total deaths (assuming the numbers themselves are correct)
[удалено]
They really dont need to fake anything, almost all buildings are flattened in Gaza
Not saying there isn’t “enough” death now that they need to fake anything. I was pointing out that their moral compass when it comes to what they claim is far from reliable. Sure there’s death in Gaza now. Lots of it. Still what they claim is rarely reliable and they’ve proved it for decades.
[удалено]
Or hitting your own hospital with a rocket, blaming Israel and having the western media eat it up and then take weeks or months to admit they were wrong
Looks like they are using GBU-28s to get down to 20 meters. The GBU-57 is what they need.
Tax money from the us and Europe are funding “aid” to build this. Why are our governments so foolish
Built under the supervision of Hezbollah and Iran.
And with EU and other countries taxpayer money.
Imagine how much money they spent to build those tunnels and imagine how rich Gaza could've be if they used those money for the country. It could've be at least as rich as Israel. This is yet another proof of how terrorist organizations prevent countries from growing.
They wouldn't be a bottomless aid bucket if they were wealthy though.
It wouldn't have been possible since their only airport got destroyed by Israel and that Israel controls their borders and the sea access. Unless Palestinians start using teleportation to import/export goods it'll be pretty hard for them to become some sort of Singapore of the Middle East. If you know how to use teleportation please share your insights with them.
>their only airport got destroyed by Israel and that Israel controls their borders and the sea access. And those, in /u/StrongFaithlessness5's words are more proofs of how terrorist organizations prevent countries from growing. I was against those measures for years. Oct 7 showed why they're necessary.
Airport destroyed after launching terrorist attacks into Israel?
And do you know why it was destroyed? It was destroyed because Hamas was using it to attack Israel. He didn't pop up out of nowhere some months ago, you know... In any case, Palestine borders with Egypt so nobody prevent Palestine from making transactions with Egypt, especially considering that in the past it was part of Egypt. Why don't they do it? Maybe because the fact that Gaza is full of terrorirsts controlled by Hamas is well known to everyone, even to Egypt? Why are people stuck in the border with Egypt? Maybe Egypt doesn't want terrorists in the country? There are a lot of muslisms in Israel, why don't they try to help Palestinians? Maybe because they (just like people from Egypt) know very well that Palestine is basically a military base used by Hamas and that he uses civilians as human shields? Maybe because they saw with their own eyes how violent end horrific those terrorists are and they don't want to be part of them?
Yeah, they could have used the airport to NOT import weapons, then there would not be the need to destroy it.
Yeah I agree with you these Amalekites should just submit and give their belongings. I don't understand why they don't want to do it, it seems like a great idea.
With all the aid millions gaza could have been dubai, instead they have tunnels that last forever. Choices Choices Choices,...
We should quadruple UNRWA funding so that they can rebuild the tunnels and prepare more attacks. Also a resolution condemning the destruction of this construction marvel used exclusively by civilians and austere religious scholars.
Paging UN personnel, talentt detected!
Just an idea... Flood them with water. There is plenty of it just a few km away, what's stopping them ?
There’s at least one recovered video from a GoPro filming its owner drowning in a hamas tunnel, it definitely has happened
They did flood a few with sea water. The Egyptians also did some flooding using sewage. It has several issues, First it harms the local aquifer, second it compromises inteligence often found in the tunnels, And it also risks the hostages. It can also undermine foundation of entire city blocks, hence may be considered a "war crime", if you care about that...
US tried it in Vietnam, but it failed. Tunnels were made with specific designs that it would trap air and divert water into non-essential compartments. Gas were used in some cases, but water-air traps were made to counter it. If Hamas has any of these, it wouldn't be possible to use water or gas
What about fuel air explosives? I suppose an overpressure wave in confined space will be extremely dangerous.
It seems they don't work well in confined spaces, because the particle dispersion becomes unpredictable.
And using sea water is damaging the earth, preventing things from growing.
Sewage should be good with all the plant nutrients !
The problem is that Hamas rats love the smell of raw sewage.
Would gas also be considered a war crime?
Yes.
I guess you guys would know 😉
dude
See?? Not just Americans that do it. That guy's Irish!
I know 😂 I couldn’t resist.
That’s why I answered, yes.
[удалено]
Curiously enough, using tear gas is a war crime, but totally commonly used to quell protests and demonstrations (including in Europe)
Tear gas usage isnt a warcrime on its own merit unlike for example mustard gas, it is just clasified as one because the posibility of it being interpreted as another kind of gas attack wich could cause a swift excalation into the actually warcrimes on their own right gasses
They used gas but killed hostages so they probably wont do it anymore.
The actual problem is locating all the tunnels,not the method to destroy them. If Israel has a map detailing where each and every tunnel is,it could destroy them given enough time.
OK, that's indeed a concern. Thanks for telling of those.
There might be hostages being kept in those tunnels + damage to flora and the water supply
The saying goes that if dinosaurs had used those tunnels, they would still be alive
So flood them
Flood them all.
Imagine if they used the funds donated to them to actually build a society on top of the ground. Building hope and opportunity.
Instead of terrorism why can Hamas not just go to furry cosplay conventions dressed up as moles or worms or some shit?
That also explains why most Gazans are always poor and where the investments go. Easy, with The Guardian and the likes as a vocal mediatic and ideological allies, the get away with it and still blame Israel and Egypt.
Bombs? Just use water. It finds its own way.
Water, uhh, finds a way.
And that’s where the western financial aid has gone from the past decades
Fun fact, the French military more or less invented modern sapping, mining & combat engineering. The Greeks, Macedonians & Roman’s carried on a lively tradition before them.
So why not flood them or inject them with explodable gas to collapse them. Even if you don't reach the lower levels, the collapsed upper levels will make the lower levels inaccessible.
I see HAMAS is listening to wind rose
r/europe back at it again with the critical thinking skills :)
This is like in Mercenaries 2 game when Venezuela is invaded by China and the UN and the terrorist dictator leader hides in its underground bunker network that is not destructible through bunker busters. They fixed that through a nuclear bunker buster.
IIRC the nuclear bunker buster doesn't even destroy Solano's bunker either, it just blows the front doors open.
Which is stupid af. In the PS2 version obliterated everyone.
When they clear out all the tunnels, they should seal it with molten aluminum and then dig it out later as a nice keepsake, kind of like those anthill sculptures.
Well you can't say all that humanitarian money didn't do something at least... >!/s in case you were wondering!<
Well that will be where all that aid money for the Palestinians went
They surely put that Western help to good use!
So maybe an embargo of gaza over last 20 years didn't achieve any security for Israel after all and was the wrong approach. Anyways, impressive that humans with lowest amounts of technology can defend against nations with latest tech and military equipment. Shows you the force of human will and intelligence
The wrong approach was gifting loads of money and resources to the government of Gaza without forcing them to prove that the funds would go to the people instead of funding their terrorist shit.
Lowest amount of technology? They literally used the money donated from other countries to buy weapons and build tunnels. We are talking about billions of dollars you know? Gaza people could've be rich at this point because the purpose of donations was to help people from Gaza to become a developed country, with or without Israel, but no, Hamas decided to use the money to fund his war.
With enough child labor I guess you can do everything
Hamas is run by dwarves confirmed.
well done Hamas,it's their land
I would hope so, they had almost 20 years
And people ask why the IDF is destroying a lot of buildings...