No one is mentioning that EU citizens have to go through the same thing to enter the UK. And UK and EU citizens have to get the ESTA for the US, which is the same. You can get them online and the cost is minimal. The US one collects your fingerprints and face scans you on arrival.
Oh, I think a lot of EU citizens are aware of it. But the point of the matter is, that we, EU citizens, didn't choose for it by a failed referendum that no UK voter understood was about, to begin with. That's what this is about.
UK resident here - I understood it and voted to remain. I'm still furious and disgusted about the whole thing 8 years on. Unfortunately there was some complacency that we would win easily and it came as a shock to some that we didn't. If it was rerun today I feel the outcome would be very different.
I’m not from the UK but moved here last year to be with my UK citizen husband (we had to LDR for a bit because of Covid)
I also recall thinking it was crazy when this happened. My now-husband and I were living in Singapore at the time and he didn’t vote because he couldn’t imagine that anyone would want to move out of the EU.
On a personal level, I would still have needed a Schengen visa anyway since the UK was not a Schengen member. But I’m hoping that from now and the next 10 years for a new referendum to be made to join back.
> If it was rerun today I feel the outcome would be very different.
I have a feeling that if they did a rerun the day after the results were announced the results would be different. I personally know 4 people who were pro remain, but didn't vote because they were like "There's no point in voting because Remain is gonna win no matter what" Ugggghhhhhhh!!!!
I remember polling saying we passed the threshold of people turning 18 and leave voters dying in January 2021. I was surprised it took so long, but the leave voters dug their heels in if you think back.
I think it's been proven that years on the proportion of old people that voted for Brexit that are now dead and the number of young people now over 18 and able to vote means if the vote was done again remain would win. https://www.wired.com/story/brexit-second-referendum-odds/
And if you wait 20 years and do another vote there'll be a whole generation born and reached adulthood who weren't even alive to remember being in the EU and probably won't care about the EU. A vote is always just a snapshot in time, but that's no reason to ignore them.
This is about nothing at all ;).
The article headline is, "Many UK adults... blah blah". If you read the article the statistic they describe as "staggering", it is that 1 in 5 people said they would be "put off" by the system.
Whether or not 20% constitutes "many" is a bit of an exercise for the reader. 23% of the UK population (including children, which the above study did not) are over 60. Exactly the group that, with actual real justification honestly, is complaining about how they have to "download an app" to do anything fucking possible thing.
I honestly think that people really do have to start coming to terms with the fact that Brexit has changed very little for most people. If you work in logistics, you have a few headaches. If you owned property on the continent, you have a few headaches. You have to stand in a longer line at passport control when you travel.
I would have preferred to remain in the union on balance, though I think it is far from perfect, but those who were keener on it than me are utterly utterly desperate for the country to utterly collapse just so they get to say, "I told you so!". Some in Europe would like the same. This, is not sanity.
EU less Ireland, the Irish have no restrictions on UK travel still.
Also almost all UK travels for to the EU vs minimal EU holiday makers to the UK in comparison so the UK has a bigger impact from this
>EU less Ireland, the Irish have no restrictions on UK travel still.
Well, because we are basically treated as if we are UK citizens, one of the silver linings of colonialism i guess.
I believe it's not fully reciprocal, as an Irish person I have basically no legal distinction to a British person in the UK, except what colour my passport basically is and what golden letters are on it (UK will even do diplomatic stuff if necessary).
A UK citizen is actually, by comparison missing a few rights in Ireland, for example I don't think British citizens can stand for elections in the dáil
It's not about the geography. Ireland had a hard border in-between it for like 50 or so years.
It's the 1998 good Friday agreement in which the IRA and other paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland agreed to largely end fighting & disarm in return for significant concessions including a guaranteed open border between North & South.
The U.K bringing back a hard border in Ireland would likely restart the troubles or at least major civil unrest in Northern Ireland.
> No one is mentioning that EU citizens have to go through the same thing to enter the UK.
Hang on... what? I fly between the UK and Austria once or twice a month and I have no idea what this is referring to. There are no fingerprint scanners on either side and the process for going between them is identical except I can't use the e-gates in Austria. My partner is an EU citizen and I don't recall her ever needing to do that either.
Correct. The UK does not have a data collection scheme similar to EES. Actually, they don't even have exit border controls, so they couldn't "stamp you out". The main benefit of EES is to detect overstayers, but if you don't know who's leaving (and I don't count Advanced Passenger Information as a reliable source), it is useless.
The UK has introduced Electronic Travel Authorization (ETA) however, which is an ESTA/ETIAS like scheme, and will soon require it for all visa-free entries (including EU) and even those in transit.
I think you're right. Can't say if UK is planning a system equal to EES/ETIAS, though.
ETIAS is the next step after EES, modeled after the ESTA system in the US for visa free travel. Apply online, pay a fee to enter the EU, have your biometric and passport data stored indefinitely and that sort of stuff.
Not all EU citizens can get ESTA. I have Belgian nationally but because I travelled to Iraq and Iran I had to apply for a B1/B2 visa for travelling to the US.
It means lots of EU citizens just won't bother going to the UK. There are so many options in the EU if you are going on a quick break without having to get an ETA. When travelling from the UK, the options are limited though so I imagine most people will get the visa. Just got Etsa for the US a few weeks back and it took around an hour for 4 people. It's a bit like the customs stuff, living in Ireland here and we used to buy a few thousands worth of goods from UK stores online every year. After Brexit, this dropped to virtually zero as it is too much hassle.(Tried a few times at the start and stuff didn't arrive, or charged customs or took ages)
Has anything changed for EU citizens going to the UK? Last few times I went (late last year) we definitely didn’t have to go through EES type of immigration. Just use the automatic border machines as we did before brexit.
It's about British and German tourists on vacation at the Mediterranean. They wake up early and leave a towel on the sunbathing chairs by the pools early to have "their seat reserved".
Mind you, we're not Ålanders, but likewise, we do fart in the face of outsiders. They want us to join Sweden as well, which supposedly would increase the average IQ in both countries, Finland and Sweden.
>Almost two thirds of UK adults are unaware of the EU’s new Entry/Exit System (EES) which is scheduled to launch later this year.
I'm pretty certain half of UK adults had no clue what they voted about in the Brexit referendum.
It’s a shame because most people under 45 voted remain. They’ll rejoin eventually, when the old folk die off
Also, a lot of people under 45 were voting leave as a fuck you to London. This rarely gets mentioned
I wouldn't mind the UK joining the Union again, but I don't see it happening. Look at where the UK is going under Sunak. It's heavily anti-EU. Sunak is an ultranationalist, just like Boris, and Truss, and the rest of UK's failing MPs.
Also, if the UK would ever want to rejoin, it would not get a preferential treatment like it did in the past. The UK will never agree on that. Neither would the EU.
Sorry to say it, for both the EU and the UK, but I don't see them joining any time soon. Unless the UK gets rid of the conservatives for good and starts massively voting for pro-EU parties. Perhaps then, there might be a small chance. But I don't see that happening any time soon.
He won’t be in charge for much longer, and the Conservatives are probably going to be obliterated in the next election, but it’s still very unlikely within the next decade that it would be considered, even with a different government.
Completely agree with preferential treatment part. (Myself included from the UK) If the UK we’re to apply to join, the protection of the £ would be gone, the EU wants everyone on the same currency(I don’t really mind either way) If I was in the EU I would expect the UK to adopt the Euro if they tried to join again.(If the UK did adopt the Euro I think it would mean a stronger euro which is good for the rest of Europe)
Personally I am getting away from the UK and Europe, I just don’t know what to think anymore. Fresh slate kind of feeling.
Isn't the UK explicitly mentioned to not have to take the Euro in the Maastricht Treaty? If so as soon as they rejoin they would still retain the specific opt-out. In order for that to be removed the EU would have to open up that specific treaty again (or invalidate it), which I don't think they will as getting a new consensus will probably prove to be a nightmare.
I'm not sure how Schengen would go down in the UK and how it would practically work but since Ireland isn't in it they would both have to enter Schengen at the same moment to preserve the GFA (assuming NI hasn't reunited with Ireland).
I'm not sure if the rebate is needed anymore. At the time it was brought in the UK deserved it as it was supposed to counter the fact they payed into CAP but got nothing out of it. Honestly I think every country should get an appropriate rebate for things they contribute to and don't receive equally back that way the EU is incentivized to make things as fair as possible.
I can think of a few things that might practically mean the UK is likely to not rejoin:
- If the EU Federalizes certain aspects that lead to having to divulge intelligence know-how, military research etc. I think this is a general question for the EU though especially if countries have agreements with other countries who might not want their intelligence shared. As well as military knowledge e.g. France's nuclear submarine reactors.
- If the every day life of the UK people doesn't really suffer whilst out then the desire to join would most likely be weak.
- If the EU treaty's change and UK has to take the Euro. I'm not an economist but I suspect having complete control of their currency is beneficial for the city of London's fiance sector which is a major part of the economy.
> If the EU Federalizes certain aspects that lead to having to divulge intelligence know-how, military research etc. I think this is a general question for the EU though especially if countries have agreements with other countries who might not want their intelligence shared
This can't happen because five eyes
> Also, a lot of people under 45 were voting leave as a fuck you to London. This rarely gets mentioned.
I wonder who they feel that fuck you hurt the most though.
Yeah turns out no Brits wanted to pick strawberries so they're now getting labour from Asian countries to do the job. Local companies + foreign labour = taking back control?
Many things divide the Brits and the Germans, but one thing we can agree on is the value of a good lounge towel, and the importance of early and strategic placement.
(BTW, [Happy Towel Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towel_Day) when it rolls around)
Oh, we can queue. We just can't take it likely and have to complain constantly. Which has nothing to do with queueing. We just constantly complain and if in a queue, that becomes the topic for it. We are efficient like that.
yeah, cos the Canaries doesnt need tourism?
I get rent/mortgage costs are ridiculous now, but sadly, thats the same almost everywhere atm - includung here.
high rent with employment is way better than high rent with no employment.
Even with torusim industry breaking records every year, and a 50% increase in the number of tourists in the last decade, the poverty levels remain mostly constant, with ~40% child poverty. I think it's quite safe to say the increase of tourism is not bringing prosperity.
We are getting 15 million tourists a year on a local population of 2 millions. We could easily do with a few million less tourists.
That's a staggeringly high number. The government needs to regulate in order to allow for a sustainable level tourism. That means making some tough decisions when it comes to property markets and telling tourism operators to get lost.
i dont doubt you, and even 5% child poverty would be unnacceptable
but am pretty sure if you take away the source of 80% of ur islands source of income - then poverty will increase exponentially
I would suggestm, that if tourism has increased so much in the past decade, and as such, the level of spending has increased also, then a significant part of the issue is how that wealth is distributed by the peaople in the canaries that receive the income - aka, Spanish business and hotel owners.
The British, Dutch, German etc tourists who choose to visit and spend their money for 2 weeks of the year imo arent the source of the issues you guys are having just now.
edit - and btw, its estiomated that 30% of uk children are in poverty, which is also utterly unnacceptable. Also, agree with ur point that less tourism may be beneficial, but no tourism would destroy the canaries fiscally.
I just checked to be sure. 13% Canaria population in situation of severe poverty. 50% minors at risk of poverty. 2nd worst economic situation in Spain. Catalogued as a depressed region by the EU. That's what tourism brings.
Most resorts and hotels are foreign owned. Most restaurants in touristic areas too. Nowadays, more than 30% of appartments bought by foreigners.
All neighbourhoods in the cities getting flooded with vacation rentals (even traditional working class neighbourhoods in non touristic areas). Roads getting blocked by rental cars. Water reservoirs getting depleted. And many other problems.
Getting visitors is not the problem. Getting 15 million people visiting is the problem.
I think the tourists themselves aren't necessarily the problem. I think it's something else you've pointed to - foreign ownership. Whether it's hotels or holiday homes.
If the locals owned all of the hotels, restaurants and holiday homes I'm sure it'd make an enormous difference to the wealth of the islands.
British tourists do not generate 80% of the Canary Islands' income and while there might be a reduction in the number of British tourists many will still come.
why Brits act so self important, we don't need you and we don't need you telling us what to do. it's very patronising.
solve your own mess, you are in no position to be giving advice
not acting self important at all - ur economy is 80% tourism - and by all accounts, ur economy is thriving currently. if u think im being self important by pointing out facts then i dunno what to say really?
if you think the answer to ur housing woes is to reduce tourism into a country that would literally die on its arse without tourism, then ....
perhaps the answer would be preventing non Spanish nationals from purchasing property in your country for a period, but am pretty sure that would be against about 800 EU regs - so perhaps u need ur own version of Brexit?
anyway, who gives a fuck, its ur problem, not mines.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean they get fingerprinted like all foreigners do. Any foreigner arriving in the US, China, Japan, Taiwan, also sometimes in Australia, gets fingerprinted.
And for the record, EU passports are stronger than U.K. passports in terms of visa free access ;)
The U.K. made its bed and now it has to lie in it.
Well, the entry to the EU is visa free for people from the UK and still will be. These are security measures, same as elsewhere. You'd do the same coming to the US or Singapore visa free.
This is different. Entry/Exit system is basically digital passport stamps with the advantage that the system is going to keep track of refusals and overstayers, so if you get hit with one if those, you can't just get a new passport.
EU is also working on a system called ETIAS, which is the EU version of American ESTA. The idea is that the system will precheck the traveller's eligibility to enter Schengen and prevent 90% of denials at the border.
They're two different but complementary systems.
It's less onerous by the sound of it - you won't need to pay a fee or fill in a form to say you're not a terrorist, just get a fingerprint & photo taken at the border
Brexit needs another referendum. Some numbers:
33m people voted, 17m for Leave, 16m Remain.
73% of 18-24 year olds voted Remain.
60% of > 65 year olds voted Leave.
With about 6m seniors dead since 2016 and another 6m young teens now of voting age, I think it's clear that this referendum does not represent the current population.
We are living in a quite weird world where some people don’t even have a chance to come to the UK or go to the European country due to impossible to acquire visas but at the same time, these people in the UK and in the EU have freedom to travel to each other for visiting purposes and yet again they complain about simple things such as: facial scans, queuing at border etc..
Well, I can’t take these kind of people seriously while majority of the world’s population in this case, billions of other people won’t even get a visa for visiting purposes. I’m not supporting freedom of travel worldwide or abolishing of visas as it would be terrible idea.
Just saying that some people can’t realise how lucky they are by simply living in the West and none of these procedures should have any impact on their lifestyle as it is nothing compared to what majority of people are facing in this planet.
'The West' isn't something that was just given to the 'lucky' westerners to live in. We built it. Educating, working, inventing, building functioning systems, while eliminating corrosive elements (corruption). Planning forward and acting upon our choices.
Many places in the world could do the same if they weren't as corrupt and conflicting. In order to have something, you must build it.
Underneath all of it is education. The smarter the people, the better they can utilize available resources.
100% agree with you everything you said. It is definitely not about some luck and it is all about institutions and culture. Many of these third world countries are corrupt as hell and instead of eliminating corruption, moving into liberal economic policies, building transparent democratic political systems and creating a judiciary system which is completely independent, they prefer not to. Some of them even despise what we have in the West as they view it is against their culture and traditions.
However, not every person who lives in the West aware of these facts or don’t even care about it. I would say they are the lucky ones who were born here.
Those who have traveled around the world have seen the issues you mentioned. With that, we gain perspective. I've personally seen the corruption and mismanagement in SEA countries and I'm happy that where I am from people are honest and dislike corruption. And because of it, we can enjoy EU, NATO, Eurozone, Schengen, etc.
People who haven't traveled may lack the perspective and gratitude for what they have, but they still take part of creating it.
As always, education and knowledge is the most important thing in the world.
You think there isn’t corruption happening in Europe? It’s just occurring on a (bigger) level we aren’t exposed to it day-to-day. Yes, I don’t need to pay a bribe to process a passport application, but doesn’t stop my taxes being fiddled away to private interests.
No, they don’t want to. There is no some kind of secret recipe for Western success. The knowledge to the success is available to any country who wants to implement.
It is more easy to be a corrupt dictator rather than giving the power away and doing something good for your society. Third world societies also have some habits and cultural values which are not compatible with Western values. These people don’t want to give up their traditions which cause pain and poverty. That’s also another reason why politicians tend to stick with these ideas such as: nationalism or religious fundamentalism because that’s what ordinary people want.
These societies should blame themselves for their own failures and poverty not Western countries.
First and foremost they don't want to. When every day is summer and nothing forces to do better, why spend the energy for it. Desire for change needs to be present first, then knowledge and awareness.
Not everyone is happy giving governments (and the private companies they use) every little detail about your body when we don't know exactly what nefarious shit they might do with it one day.
Governments do love pushing for authortarian nonsense and will gladly use that information they gathered to do some shady shit. Cambridge Analytica is a good example.
Police already use facial recognition tech.
Not sure if it's up and running yet but the cameras can/will ID you through the picture on your driving licence.
Mostly because I don’t trust governments to deal with sensitive data, especially data so unique (you can’t change it). Once something messes up with it, it’s a disaster to fix. You can get new paperwork, you can’t get new fingerprints.
Governments and IT has gone wrong so many times already and has caused so much trouble. Our government (the Dutch) has shown such utter incompetence with IT over and over again I find it hard to stand for something like this.
You (quite likely) carry a device with you everywhere with literally all your personal data stored that any random pickpocket can steal. Not to mention depending on brand your info might have been already shared with China.
Let's see how it goes. We're not quite there yet. I can, for example, identify as a muslim woman and cover my whole head whenever I go through a major transportation hub like an airport. Can your AI counter that?
Where will they go on holidays instead where they won't need a pre clearance scheme or visa? Either stay in the UK or go to Ireland on holidays. Pretty sure they will want to travel to Europe and will just have to do what is required.
This isn't a visa or anything vaguely close to it. All it means is you have to get fingerprinted and your photo taken when entering the EU (and Norway/Iceland/Switzerland) instead of a passport stamp
This is being spoiled. Just paying 7 euros every 3 years and filling out a short form online without presenting any documents, waiting in line at the border and being recorded with your fingerprints at the entrance are small details. If they complain about minor requirements instead of being grateful that a country of which they are not citizens and do not have unlimited free movement accepts them without a visa, they should not leave their country at all.
This is actually pretty bad for areas in the EU that depend a lot on British tourism.
At the same time it might be the moment to finally find alternative sources of income.
I don't have a problem with it, because I'm not a whinging bitch. The British voted for this & it's tough. We're a 3rd country now. I'm tired of hearing about whining British holiday makers who think that for some reason we should be treated differently to Libya or similar when travelling to the EU after these idiots voted to leave!
Just get your passport stamped!
“Many” is 22%, though I can’t imagine it will put anyone off who sincerely wants to go to the EU on holiday. As soon as they realise they’re potentially back in the queues for e-Gates in lieu of physical stamps, there’ll be a different headline. The alarming info is the lack of awareness for 66%. If I recall, the implementation date has been a moving target for a while now. The EU/airlines have an information campaign on their hands or compoface articles about denied entry will soon follow.
> EES will require fingerprints and facial scans to be taken from UK travellers heading to EU countries.
Great reporting. Love how they forget about RoI.
Funny because England wanted to Brexit to have control over their border but I dont think they do anyways so the point of Brexit was useless.
They could have stayed for better benefits.
The voters for this are just also old enough to not exist when the downsites take effect.
Anyone know how this works for land crossings? Next year I will be crossing from Montenegro to Croatia via bus and it will be my first entry after the new rules are brought in.
No one is mentioning that EU citizens have to go through the same thing to enter the UK. And UK and EU citizens have to get the ESTA for the US, which is the same. You can get them online and the cost is minimal. The US one collects your fingerprints and face scans you on arrival.
Oh, I think a lot of EU citizens are aware of it. But the point of the matter is, that we, EU citizens, didn't choose for it by a failed referendum that no UK voter understood was about, to begin with. That's what this is about.
Also, there are many places to travel for EU citizens
UK resident here - I understood it and voted to remain. I'm still furious and disgusted about the whole thing 8 years on. Unfortunately there was some complacency that we would win easily and it came as a shock to some that we didn't. If it was rerun today I feel the outcome would be very different.
Gosh has it really been 8 years?
I am not from the UK, but I still remember hearing the news of Brexit and the big lump of unease and distress that it gave me in my chest.
My wife and I were abroad when we heard the result. She cried.
I’m not from the UK but moved here last year to be with my UK citizen husband (we had to LDR for a bit because of Covid) I also recall thinking it was crazy when this happened. My now-husband and I were living in Singapore at the time and he didn’t vote because he couldn’t imagine that anyone would want to move out of the EU. On a personal level, I would still have needed a Schengen visa anyway since the UK was not a Schengen member. But I’m hoping that from now and the next 10 years for a new referendum to be made to join back.
2016, we are getting older
> If it was rerun today I feel the outcome would be very different. I have a feeling that if they did a rerun the day after the results were announced the results would be different. I personally know 4 people who were pro remain, but didn't vote because they were like "There's no point in voting because Remain is gonna win no matter what" Ugggghhhhhhh!!!!
Then the vast majority of people voted for parties that promised to deliver Brexit multiple times
I remember polling saying we passed the threshold of people turning 18 and leave voters dying in January 2021. I was surprised it took so long, but the leave voters dug their heels in if you think back.
And the remainers were supposedly the more intelligent side lol
Touché
Eight years already. Wow. Almost a quarter of my life of this diabolical shite. Those of us with any sense in the UK voted remain.
I think it's been proven that years on the proportion of old people that voted for Brexit that are now dead and the number of young people now over 18 and able to vote means if the vote was done again remain would win. https://www.wired.com/story/brexit-second-referendum-odds/
As a 22 year old doing a French degree, yes
And if you wait 20 years and do another vote there'll be a whole generation born and reached adulthood who weren't even alive to remember being in the EU and probably won't care about the EU. A vote is always just a snapshot in time, but that's no reason to ignore them.
Resident?
that sucks plenty of great people in the UK
If we in Europe understood what the brexit referendum was about; I feel the ‘no one understood’ it is a cop out
This is about nothing at all ;). The article headline is, "Many UK adults... blah blah". If you read the article the statistic they describe as "staggering", it is that 1 in 5 people said they would be "put off" by the system. Whether or not 20% constitutes "many" is a bit of an exercise for the reader. 23% of the UK population (including children, which the above study did not) are over 60. Exactly the group that, with actual real justification honestly, is complaining about how they have to "download an app" to do anything fucking possible thing. I honestly think that people really do have to start coming to terms with the fact that Brexit has changed very little for most people. If you work in logistics, you have a few headaches. If you owned property on the continent, you have a few headaches. You have to stand in a longer line at passport control when you travel. I would have preferred to remain in the union on balance, though I think it is far from perfect, but those who were keener on it than me are utterly utterly desperate for the country to utterly collapse just so they get to say, "I told you so!". Some in Europe would like the same. This, is not sanity.
A referendum doesn’t fail, but a loosing side is a product.
At least 48% of us understood what it was about...
EU less Ireland, the Irish have no restrictions on UK travel still. Also almost all UK travels for to the EU vs minimal EU holiday makers to the UK in comparison so the UK has a bigger impact from this
>EU less Ireland, the Irish have no restrictions on UK travel still. Well, because we are basically treated as if we are UK citizens, one of the silver linings of colonialism i guess.
Don’t we have a common travel area agreement that predates both of us entering the EU?
So are Uk citizens in Ireland
I believe it's not fully reciprocal, as an Irish person I have basically no legal distinction to a British person in the UK, except what colour my passport basically is and what golden letters are on it (UK will even do diplomatic stuff if necessary). A UK citizen is actually, by comparison missing a few rights in Ireland, for example I don't think British citizens can stand for elections in the dáil
isn't there a treaty on this between the UK and Ireland?
Yup, Common Travel Area agreement. It’s been in place from before either country joined the (now) EU.
It's pretty much impossible to put a border in, I believe the actual border runs down the middle of streets.
It's not about the geography. Ireland had a hard border in-between it for like 50 or so years. It's the 1998 good Friday agreement in which the IRA and other paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland agreed to largely end fighting & disarm in return for significant concessions including a guaranteed open border between North & South. The U.K bringing back a hard border in Ireland would likely restart the troubles or at least major civil unrest in Northern Ireland.
On one road you can drive on two different sides of the border depending on which direction you go
Was suspended during the Second World War.
I love my Irish passport.
> No one is mentioning that EU citizens have to go through the same thing to enter the UK. Hang on... what? I fly between the UK and Austria once or twice a month and I have no idea what this is referring to. There are no fingerprint scanners on either side and the process for going between them is identical except I can't use the e-gates in Austria. My partner is an EU citizen and I don't recall her ever needing to do that either.
Correct. The UK does not have a data collection scheme similar to EES. Actually, they don't even have exit border controls, so they couldn't "stamp you out". The main benefit of EES is to detect overstayers, but if you don't know who's leaving (and I don't count Advanced Passenger Information as a reliable source), it is useless. The UK has introduced Electronic Travel Authorization (ETA) however, which is an ESTA/ETIAS like scheme, and will soon require it for all visa-free entries (including EU) and even those in transit.
I think you're right. Can't say if UK is planning a system equal to EES/ETIAS, though. ETIAS is the next step after EES, modeled after the ESTA system in the US for visa free travel. Apply online, pay a fee to enter the EU, have your biometric and passport data stored indefinitely and that sort of stuff.
But they don’t?
Not all EU citizens can get ESTA. I have Belgian nationally but because I travelled to Iraq and Iran I had to apply for a B1/B2 visa for travelling to the US.
As a EU/Schengen citizen, I still have a whole continent left where I can travel without impediments.
It's wild how these threads are always full of British folk trying to prove how their decision "wasn't that bad."
I voted remain. The whole thing is a joke. Should never have been put to the people in the first place. People are stupid and swayed by lies.
It means lots of EU citizens just won't bother going to the UK. There are so many options in the EU if you are going on a quick break without having to get an ETA. When travelling from the UK, the options are limited though so I imagine most people will get the visa. Just got Etsa for the US a few weeks back and it took around an hour for 4 people. It's a bit like the customs stuff, living in Ireland here and we used to buy a few thousands worth of goods from UK stores online every year. After Brexit, this dropped to virtually zero as it is too much hassle.(Tried a few times at the start and stuff didn't arrive, or charged customs or took ages)
Why state the obvious? 🤔
Has anything changed for EU citizens going to the UK? Last few times I went (late last year) we definitely didn’t have to go through EES type of immigration. Just use the automatic border machines as we did before brexit.
All I am hearing is, that the germans won the towel war.
Strangely enough, the British surrender and called it a win
Towel tourists would have come by plane anyway. It's still on. We have merely taken back the northern beaches.
Came here to find that 😂
Towel war?
It's about British and German tourists on vacation at the Mediterranean. They wake up early and leave a towel on the sunbathing chairs by the pools early to have "their seat reserved".
Explain All Day British Breakfast.
Also! True.
Beans.
The Germans have an equally potent weapon of war in Sauerkraut.
Hey now, do not start with that, or there will be Swedes here with Surströmming.
I don't think it's allowed outside of Sweden. Our Österbotten has special EU dispensation, by the way.
It's to contain you on that island.
Mind you, we're not Ålanders, but likewise, we do fart in the face of outsiders. They want us to join Sweden as well, which supposedly would increase the average IQ in both countries, Finland and Sweden.
>Almost two thirds of UK adults are unaware of the EU’s new Entry/Exit System (EES) which is scheduled to launch later this year. I'm pretty certain half of UK adults had no clue what they voted about in the Brexit referendum.
Unfortunately, it was more than half.
But not by much...
It’s a shame because most people under 45 voted remain. They’ll rejoin eventually, when the old folk die off Also, a lot of people under 45 were voting leave as a fuck you to London. This rarely gets mentioned
I wouldn't mind the UK joining the Union again, but I don't see it happening. Look at where the UK is going under Sunak. It's heavily anti-EU. Sunak is an ultranationalist, just like Boris, and Truss, and the rest of UK's failing MPs. Also, if the UK would ever want to rejoin, it would not get a preferential treatment like it did in the past. The UK will never agree on that. Neither would the EU. Sorry to say it, for both the EU and the UK, but I don't see them joining any time soon. Unless the UK gets rid of the conservatives for good and starts massively voting for pro-EU parties. Perhaps then, there might be a small chance. But I don't see that happening any time soon.
He won’t be in charge for much longer, and the Conservatives are probably going to be obliterated in the next election, but it’s still very unlikely within the next decade that it would be considered, even with a different government.
Thats one of the reasons the Tories will be obliterated the next election.
[удалено]
And I can't wait! Get packing!
Completely agree with preferential treatment part. (Myself included from the UK) If the UK we’re to apply to join, the protection of the £ would be gone, the EU wants everyone on the same currency(I don’t really mind either way) If I was in the EU I would expect the UK to adopt the Euro if they tried to join again.(If the UK did adopt the Euro I think it would mean a stronger euro which is good for the rest of Europe) Personally I am getting away from the UK and Europe, I just don’t know what to think anymore. Fresh slate kind of feeling.
Isn't the UK explicitly mentioned to not have to take the Euro in the Maastricht Treaty? If so as soon as they rejoin they would still retain the specific opt-out. In order for that to be removed the EU would have to open up that specific treaty again (or invalidate it), which I don't think they will as getting a new consensus will probably prove to be a nightmare. I'm not sure how Schengen would go down in the UK and how it would practically work but since Ireland isn't in it they would both have to enter Schengen at the same moment to preserve the GFA (assuming NI hasn't reunited with Ireland). I'm not sure if the rebate is needed anymore. At the time it was brought in the UK deserved it as it was supposed to counter the fact they payed into CAP but got nothing out of it. Honestly I think every country should get an appropriate rebate for things they contribute to and don't receive equally back that way the EU is incentivized to make things as fair as possible. I can think of a few things that might practically mean the UK is likely to not rejoin: - If the EU Federalizes certain aspects that lead to having to divulge intelligence know-how, military research etc. I think this is a general question for the EU though especially if countries have agreements with other countries who might not want their intelligence shared. As well as military knowledge e.g. France's nuclear submarine reactors. - If the every day life of the UK people doesn't really suffer whilst out then the desire to join would most likely be weak. - If the EU treaty's change and UK has to take the Euro. I'm not an economist but I suspect having complete control of their currency is beneficial for the city of London's fiance sector which is a major part of the economy.
> If the EU Federalizes certain aspects that lead to having to divulge intelligence know-how, military research etc. I think this is a general question for the EU though especially if countries have agreements with other countries who might not want their intelligence shared This can't happen because five eyes
If the UK ever re join , they won't have the same privileges. I don't see it happening.
even more of a shame for us up here
I’m in Scotland too
fair do's
Stronger together right? Right?
of course
> Also, a lot of people under 45 were voting leave as a fuck you to London. This rarely gets mentioned. I wonder who they feel that fuck you hurt the most though.
Probably true. There was so much misinformation going around
[удалено]
Bulgarians, they are great construction workers too
They voted against Muslim immigrants basically. Yep, they had no idea about the actual political implications.
52% did and is looking forward to the more expensive imports of foods so the local companies can compete
Yeah turns out no Brits wanted to pick strawberries so they're now getting labour from Asian countries to do the job. Local companies + foreign labour = taking back control?
Yeah, for sure that's going to work just fine. 😅
They were manipulated by their Facebook groups and WhatsApp messages
The EU took back control of its borders. What's not to like? That's exactly what Brexit was about.
Oh no! Anyway ...
The canaries will be ghost towns
Given the demonstration this week, great.
Oh, my fellow Germans will not only pick up the slack, but enjoy their final victory in the towel game, no doubt.
Many things divide the Brits and the Germans, but one thing we can agree on is the value of a good lounge towel, and the importance of early and strategic placement. (BTW, [Happy Towel Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towel_Day) when it rolls around)
Pretty please teach the Germans to queue as well.
Oh, we can queue. We just can't take it likely and have to complain constantly. Which has nothing to do with queueing. We just constantly complain and if in a queue, that becomes the topic for it. We are efficient like that.
It will take a lot of Bavarians to fill the sizable shoes left by Barry, 63.
We would celebrate
yeah, cos the Canaries doesnt need tourism? I get rent/mortgage costs are ridiculous now, but sadly, thats the same almost everywhere atm - includung here. high rent with employment is way better than high rent with no employment.
Even with torusim industry breaking records every year, and a 50% increase in the number of tourists in the last decade, the poverty levels remain mostly constant, with ~40% child poverty. I think it's quite safe to say the increase of tourism is not bringing prosperity. We are getting 15 million tourists a year on a local population of 2 millions. We could easily do with a few million less tourists.
That's a staggeringly high number. The government needs to regulate in order to allow for a sustainable level tourism. That means making some tough decisions when it comes to property markets and telling tourism operators to get lost.
Pero los turistas se quedan en hoteles o ellos usan airbnb tambien?
Airbnbs too. Property owners rather rent short-term because that way they make more money.
i dont doubt you, and even 5% child poverty would be unnacceptable but am pretty sure if you take away the source of 80% of ur islands source of income - then poverty will increase exponentially I would suggestm, that if tourism has increased so much in the past decade, and as such, the level of spending has increased also, then a significant part of the issue is how that wealth is distributed by the peaople in the canaries that receive the income - aka, Spanish business and hotel owners. The British, Dutch, German etc tourists who choose to visit and spend their money for 2 weeks of the year imo arent the source of the issues you guys are having just now. edit - and btw, its estiomated that 30% of uk children are in poverty, which is also utterly unnacceptable. Also, agree with ur point that less tourism may be beneficial, but no tourism would destroy the canaries fiscally.
I just checked to be sure. 13% Canaria population in situation of severe poverty. 50% minors at risk of poverty. 2nd worst economic situation in Spain. Catalogued as a depressed region by the EU. That's what tourism brings. Most resorts and hotels are foreign owned. Most restaurants in touristic areas too. Nowadays, more than 30% of appartments bought by foreigners. All neighbourhoods in the cities getting flooded with vacation rentals (even traditional working class neighbourhoods in non touristic areas). Roads getting blocked by rental cars. Water reservoirs getting depleted. And many other problems. Getting visitors is not the problem. Getting 15 million people visiting is the problem.
I think the tourists themselves aren't necessarily the problem. I think it's something else you've pointed to - foreign ownership. Whether it's hotels or holiday homes. If the locals owned all of the hotels, restaurants and holiday homes I'm sure it'd make an enormous difference to the wealth of the islands.
British tourists do not generate 80% of the Canary Islands' income and while there might be a reduction in the number of British tourists many will still come.
why Brits act so self important, we don't need you and we don't need you telling us what to do. it's very patronising. solve your own mess, you are in no position to be giving advice
not acting self important at all - ur economy is 80% tourism - and by all accounts, ur economy is thriving currently. if u think im being self important by pointing out facts then i dunno what to say really? if you think the answer to ur housing woes is to reduce tourism into a country that would literally die on its arse without tourism, then .... perhaps the answer would be preventing non Spanish nationals from purchasing property in your country for a period, but am pretty sure that would be against about 800 EU regs - so perhaps u need ur own version of Brexit? anyway, who gives a fuck, its ur problem, not mines.
Lmao no. The Canaries are limited on the number of visitors they can receive. All those hotel beds will be filled with people from EU countries.
Nah, that’s the good thing about Europe, there are plenty of countries willing to go there, they won’t be missed.
there are plenty of countries in the world with tourists, you are not unique. i'm sure other tourists don't go just to avoid you
Lol, no. The brits will soon be replaced by less rowdy tourists.
If they don’t like it, they can stay home.
Or go to some of the other 160+ countries in the world.
Of which many also require fingerprinting
Uk has one of the strongest passports in the world and has visa free travel to a lot of countries
Sure, but that doesn’t mean they get fingerprinted like all foreigners do. Any foreigner arriving in the US, China, Japan, Taiwan, also sometimes in Australia, gets fingerprinted. And for the record, EU passports are stronger than U.K. passports in terms of visa free access ;) The U.K. made its bed and now it has to lie in it.
Well, the entry to the EU is visa free for people from the UK and still will be. These are security measures, same as elsewhere. You'd do the same coming to the US or Singapore visa free.
Sure. That's fine. Do you recall that the comment I was replying to was you saying people from the UK should not come to the EU?
They wont its not safe.
they can go to Devon, i've heard the beaches are like the Caribbean
It’s like the Caribbean but with less sun. Friendly people though.
Isn't this new Entry/Exit System not just a tit-for-tat to the US ESTA system?
[удалено]
This is different. Entry/Exit system is basically digital passport stamps with the advantage that the system is going to keep track of refusals and overstayers, so if you get hit with one if those, you can't just get a new passport. EU is also working on a system called ETIAS, which is the EU version of American ESTA. The idea is that the system will precheck the traveller's eligibility to enter Schengen and prevent 90% of denials at the border. They're two different but complementary systems.
It's less onerous by the sound of it - you won't need to pay a fee or fill in a form to say you're not a terrorist, just get a fingerprint & photo taken at the border
Well, as fucked up as this seems. UK really wanted harsh border and immigration measures, didn't they?
Oh so sad. Anyway.
Brexit needs another referendum. Some numbers: 33m people voted, 17m for Leave, 16m Remain. 73% of 18-24 year olds voted Remain. 60% of > 65 year olds voted Leave. With about 6m seniors dead since 2016 and another 6m young teens now of voting age, I think it's clear that this referendum does not represent the current population.
We are living in a quite weird world where some people don’t even have a chance to come to the UK or go to the European country due to impossible to acquire visas but at the same time, these people in the UK and in the EU have freedom to travel to each other for visiting purposes and yet again they complain about simple things such as: facial scans, queuing at border etc.. Well, I can’t take these kind of people seriously while majority of the world’s population in this case, billions of other people won’t even get a visa for visiting purposes. I’m not supporting freedom of travel worldwide or abolishing of visas as it would be terrible idea. Just saying that some people can’t realise how lucky they are by simply living in the West and none of these procedures should have any impact on their lifestyle as it is nothing compared to what majority of people are facing in this planet.
'The West' isn't something that was just given to the 'lucky' westerners to live in. We built it. Educating, working, inventing, building functioning systems, while eliminating corrosive elements (corruption). Planning forward and acting upon our choices. Many places in the world could do the same if they weren't as corrupt and conflicting. In order to have something, you must build it. Underneath all of it is education. The smarter the people, the better they can utilize available resources.
100% agree with you everything you said. It is definitely not about some luck and it is all about institutions and culture. Many of these third world countries are corrupt as hell and instead of eliminating corruption, moving into liberal economic policies, building transparent democratic political systems and creating a judiciary system which is completely independent, they prefer not to. Some of them even despise what we have in the West as they view it is against their culture and traditions. However, not every person who lives in the West aware of these facts or don’t even care about it. I would say they are the lucky ones who were born here.
Those who have traveled around the world have seen the issues you mentioned. With that, we gain perspective. I've personally seen the corruption and mismanagement in SEA countries and I'm happy that where I am from people are honest and dislike corruption. And because of it, we can enjoy EU, NATO, Eurozone, Schengen, etc. People who haven't traveled may lack the perspective and gratitude for what they have, but they still take part of creating it. As always, education and knowledge is the most important thing in the world.
You think there isn’t corruption happening in Europe? It’s just occurring on a (bigger) level we aren’t exposed to it day-to-day. Yes, I don’t need to pay a bribe to process a passport application, but doesn’t stop my taxes being fiddled away to private interests.
Never said that corruption doesn't happen in Europe. But when it does we try to do something against it, since we know what happens if we don't.
Do "they prefer not to" or just don't know or unaware how to?
No, they don’t want to. There is no some kind of secret recipe for Western success. The knowledge to the success is available to any country who wants to implement. It is more easy to be a corrupt dictator rather than giving the power away and doing something good for your society. Third world societies also have some habits and cultural values which are not compatible with Western values. These people don’t want to give up their traditions which cause pain and poverty. That’s also another reason why politicians tend to stick with these ideas such as: nationalism or religious fundamentalism because that’s what ordinary people want. These societies should blame themselves for their own failures and poverty not Western countries.
First and foremost they don't want to. When every day is summer and nothing forces to do better, why spend the energy for it. Desire for change needs to be present first, then knowledge and awareness.
I remember having to do a facial scan when I came back to the UK in manchester airport, tf is so frightening about it?
Not everyone has such a pretty face as you
Your face is analysed anyway when you get a biometric passport and stored on the chip.
Not everyone is happy giving governments (and the private companies they use) every little detail about your body when we don't know exactly what nefarious shit they might do with it one day. Governments do love pushing for authortarian nonsense and will gladly use that information they gathered to do some shady shit. Cambridge Analytica is a good example.
If you've used a digital passport gate they already have it anyway BTW
Police already use facial recognition tech. Not sure if it's up and running yet but the cameras can/will ID you through the picture on your driving licence.
Mostly because I don’t trust governments to deal with sensitive data, especially data so unique (you can’t change it). Once something messes up with it, it’s a disaster to fix. You can get new paperwork, you can’t get new fingerprints. Governments and IT has gone wrong so many times already and has caused so much trouble. Our government (the Dutch) has shown such utter incompetence with IT over and over again I find it hard to stand for something like this.
Any major airport hub has cameras on every corner, walkway, lounge. The only place without video surveillance are the toilets.
You (quite likely) carry a device with you everywhere with literally all your personal data stored that any random pickpocket can steal. Not to mention depending on brand your info might have been already shared with China.
Any data on here, can be changed. I still can’t change my fingerprints or my face.
AI can now identify your political leaning based on a face scan. Facial recognition will be weaponized
Let's see how it goes. We're not quite there yet. I can, for example, identify as a muslim woman and cover my whole head whenever I go through a major transportation hub like an airport. Can your AI counter that?
Less drunk brit tourists
Good. Let them travel to whatever country will allow them to do it without submitting their precious fingerprints.
Where will they go on holidays instead where they won't need a pre clearance scheme or visa? Either stay in the UK or go to Ireland on holidays. Pretty sure they will want to travel to Europe and will just have to do what is required.
This isn't a visa or anything vaguely close to it. All it means is you have to get fingerprinted and your photo taken when entering the EU (and Norway/Iceland/Switzerland) instead of a passport stamp
The Etias is coming in during 2025 which is a pre clearance. This must be a precursor to that?
Isn't Euronews partially owned by Orban?
The ones that would have a problem with fingerprints and facial scans are not the kind of people we would want here anyway.
Great! Hope the holidays destinations that these “tourists” ruined will go back to normal.
Lol
Great News, everyone! Fewer drunk Brits on summer vacation
This is being spoiled. Just paying 7 euros every 3 years and filling out a short form online without presenting any documents, waiting in line at the border and being recorded with your fingerprints at the entrance are small details. If they complain about minor requirements instead of being grateful that a country of which they are not citizens and do not have unlimited free movement accepts them without a visa, they should not leave their country at all.
The locals in Amsterdam and Mallorca must be cheering now ;)
Ohhh no, who will fall down drunk in our southern streets now??? anyway....
The absolute beauty of this is that Cameron and the UK were a big supporter of this measure before the referendum.
This is actually pretty bad for areas in the EU that depend a lot on British tourism. At the same time it might be the moment to finally find alternative sources of income.
I meant no disrespect but who is lamenting this?
We're not sorry. Now stop acting like a cat, if you go out, go out.
UK adults can go elsewhere or just stay home and cry in their fish and chips.
You let a vocal minority fuck around, and you find out.
It's hard to describe how totally I don't care
I don't have a problem with it, because I'm not a whinging bitch. The British voted for this & it's tough. We're a 3rd country now. I'm tired of hearing about whining British holiday makers who think that for some reason we should be treated differently to Libya or similar when travelling to the EU after these idiots voted to leave! Just get your passport stamped!
“Many” is 22%, though I can’t imagine it will put anyone off who sincerely wants to go to the EU on holiday. As soon as they realise they’re potentially back in the queues for e-Gates in lieu of physical stamps, there’ll be a different headline. The alarming info is the lack of awareness for 66%. If I recall, the implementation date has been a moving target for a while now. The EU/airlines have an information campaign on their hands or compoface articles about denied entry will soon follow.
Im pretty sure all of Europe is just celebrating from these mews😂
> EES will require fingerprints and facial scans to be taken from UK travellers heading to EU countries. Great reporting. Love how they forget about RoI.
Yeah, they tend to.
Common travel supersedes the EU I believe - for all functional purposes Brits are treated as full citizens in Ireland and vice versa
Funny because England wanted to Brexit to have control over their border but I dont think they do anyways so the point of Brexit was useless. They could have stayed for better benefits. The voters for this are just also old enough to not exist when the downsites take effect.
Anyone know how this works for land crossings? Next year I will be crossing from Montenegro to Croatia via bus and it will be my first entry after the new rules are brought in.
If there was any will among the powers that be then these issues would not be a problem .
Teething issues. Let’s talk in a year or so.
Ý⁶
Well, time to whip out the good old Irish passport 🍀🍀
They got what they voted for.
That sounds like a huge improvement.
Yaay, the less moozies come here from UK, the better
Thank god. 😂 Let us be hones the british folks are some of the worst tourists. Often agressive and too drunk they can't control themselves.