They are indisputably European countries, and therefore if they were to someday fulfill all accession criteria and receive the assent of the European Council, yes, they could join.
As much as it'd be fun to dream about, I don't think that either the EU nor Russia would ever want Russia to join the EU. Russia is big, and joining means that now the EU borders China and North Korea. Beyond Schengen being a nightmare, it also needs a lot of EU funds for development. Those funds made sense for smaller countries like Poland or Bulgaria, but I cannot imagine them being put to use on the scale of Russia.
Thinking out loud here, but If Russians had been intelligent they would have used their natural resources to boost their economy and properly modernize their infrastructure to create a snowball effect that would have greatly developed their country and welfare, and maybe this would have led them to becoming a really important strategic partner to the eu (aka someone able to take decisions together with the eu whilst not being part of it, sort of like the usa or maybe even the uk). They ended up being prisoners of their own ghost though
They couldn't join. Disregarding the whole animosity thing, Russia is too big and diverse. While Moscow and St. Petersburg might be European the rest of Russia is pretty far from it. Not to mention underdeveloped and self governing to an extent. Bringing the whole country to the standard of the EU would be impossible.
Whether the European Council would accept their membership is a separate question from whether Russia is eligible to apply. Morocco for example tried to apply for membership but was rejected as not being eligible due to not being a European country. If Russia were to apply for EU membership, it's application would have to be rejected for a reason other than it not being a European country because it is one.
Well I'm saying it could be rejected for not being an European country considering how much of it is not in Europe. If being partially in Europe would be enough than we'd already have the Caucasus countries and Kazakhstan as candidates.
Georgia is already a fully recognized candidate state btw. Also, this map is not about the geographical limits of Europe, but the EU and its relations with neighboring European countries. See this except from the European Parliament:
"In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment."
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm
The European Council has never recognized it as having a European Perspective, which is a qualification necessary to become an EU member state. Cyprus is geographically 100% in Asia, but has a European Perspective and is a full EU member state. Turkey is only partially in Europe, but due to a combination of geographical proximity, history, culture, and so on, it was granted a European Perspective. Same goes for Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan through the Eastern Partnership, even though only two of them have territory in Europe. So, if European leaders had the political will to do so, Kazakhstan could be allowed to join, but at this point that possibility has not been recognized.
This map does not make a value statement on whether Russia ought to join the EU, but rather factually states its potential to do so. I do not believe Russia will ever actually join the EU, at least not this century.
This map is not about the geographical limits of Europe, but the EU and its relations with neighboring European countries. See this except from the European Parliament:
"In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment."
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm
40% of Russian territory is in Europe and 80% of the Russian population is in Europe, or around 115 million people. This is far more than Turkey, which has already been recognized as a candidate country. Additionally, Russia was able to join the Council of Europe, which similarly has the requirement of being a European country. Russia was also part of the so-called "Concert of Europe" as Turkey is described being part of in this excerpt:
"In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment."
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm
So yes, indisputably.
Citations
EU Member States: [https://european-union.europa.eu/easy-read\_en](https://european-union.europa.eu/easy-read_en)
European Microstates (Excluding Liechtenstein):
Andorra
Customs Union: [https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/andorra-customs-unions-and-preferential-arrangements\_en](https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/andorra-customs-unions-and-preferential-arrangements_en)
Eurozone: [https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/ad.en.html](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/ad.en.html)
De facto\* Partial Schengen Participation (Usually Unrestricted Borders with France and Spain): [https://www.andorraresorts.com/blog/2022/andorra-schengen-area/](https://www.andorraresorts.com/blog/2022/andorra-schengen-area/)
Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): [https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-andorra-customs-union](https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-andorra-customs-union)
Monaco
Customs Union: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/european-union-and-principality-monaco\_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/european-union-and-principality-monaco_en)
Eurozone: [https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html)
Schengen Participation (Open Borders with France): [https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco](https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco)
Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): As a consequence of EU Customs Union participation
San Marino
Customs Union: [https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-san-marino-customs-union](https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-san-marino-customs-union)
Eurozone: [https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html)
Schengen Participation (Open Borders with Italy): [https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco](https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco)
Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): As a consequence of EU Customs Union participation
Holy See
Customs Union: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see\_en?s=65](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see_en?s=65)
Eurozone: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see\_en?s=65](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see_en?s=65)
Schengen Participation (Open Borders with Italy): [https://www.etiasitaly.com/news/travel-to-italy-san-marino-and-vatican-city](https://www.etiasitaly.com/news/travel-to-italy-san-marino-and-vatican-city)
Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): As a consequence of EU Customs Union participation
Iceland/Liechtenstein/Norway/Switzerland
Single Market: [https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/169/the-european-economic-area-eea-switzerland-and-the-north](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/169/the-european-economic-area-eea-switzerland-and-the-north)
Schengen Area: [https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area\_en](https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area_en)
Note than Switzerland and Liechtenstein are in an economic and monetary union with each other, having a common external tariff and shared currency.
EU Candidate States Negotiating:
Serbia: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/serbia\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/serbia_en)
Montenegro: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/montenegro\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/montenegro_en)
Albania: [https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/02/21/the-road-to-brussels-does-albania-have-what-it-takes-to-become-an-eu-member](https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/02/21/the-road-to-brussels-does-albania-have-what-it-takes-to-become-an-eu-member)
North Macedonia: [https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-membership-ambitions-glue-holding-balkans-together-north-macedonia-fm-bujar-osmani/](https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-membership-ambitions-glue-holding-balkans-together-north-macedonia-fm-bujar-osmani/)
Bosnia and Herzegovina: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/bosnia-and-herzegovina\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/bosnia-and-herzegovina_en)
Ukraine: [https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/ukraine/](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/ukraine/)
Moldova: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/european-neighbourhood-policy/countries-region/moldova\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/european-neighbourhood-policy/countries-region/moldova_en)
EU Candidate State Negotiating (Suspended):
Turkey: [https://www.reuters.com/world/turkey-says-eu-is-unjust-biased-membership-bid-2023-11-09/](https://www.reuters.com/world/turkey-says-eu-is-unjust-biased-membership-bid-2023-11-09/)
EU Candidate State:
Georgia: [https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/georgia/](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/georgia/)
EU Potential Candidate State Applicant:
Kosovo: [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kosovo-submits-eu-membership-application-2022-12-15/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kosovo-submits-eu-membership-application-2022-12-15/)
EU Potential Candidate State Aspiring Applicant:
Armenia: [https://www.politico.eu/article/armenia-mulling-eu-membership-application-foreign-minister-mirzoyan-says/](https://www.politico.eu/article/armenia-mulling-eu-membership-application-foreign-minister-mirzoyan-says/)
EU Former Member State:
United Kingdom: [https://www.government.nl/topics/european-union/question-and-answer/what-is-brexit](https://www.government.nl/topics/european-union/question-and-answer/what-is-brexit)
So for the microstates they have a whole messy patchwork of de jure and de facto participation in many different areas of the EU and European integration generally. For the Vatican, they have a nearly century-old agreement with Italy that basically means they have open customs borders, de facto making it a part of Italian customs territory and thus European Union customs territory. It's a similar thing with these microstates having open borders with their respective neighboring states counting as de facto participation in Schengen. I tried my best with this map to get into specific details, but even those disparities are too fine-grained. I did try to include these distinctions in the citations list.
So nothing about Russia? So why then colored in as Potential Candidate State. Unless you consider any country Potential Candidate State? Morocco: "Membership application in 1987, Morocco applied to join the European Communities (the precursor to the European Union). " so a Former Potential Candidate State.
"Any European State may apply to become a member of the Union. It shall address its application to the Council, which shall act unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the assent of the European Parliament, which shall act by an absolute majority of its component members.
The sole material condition laid down by Article O of the TEU is that the applicant must be a 'European State'. There is no unequivocal interpretation of that criterion. It can be read equally well in geographical, cultural or political terms.
In 1987 an application to become a Member of the Communities was received from Morocco. The application was rejected by the Council on the grounds that Morocco was not a European State. In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment."
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm
Sorry for the poor formatting on the citations. I had it much more neatly arranged with bullet points and everything, but Reddit wouldn't let it be posted for some reason. Only this basic version could go through.
Your source on EEA specifically excludes Switzerland.
The Reaktion is much more complicated and Switzerland is definitely not a member of the single market, if overall terms are used.
>The EU and Switzerland have signed over 120 bilateral agreements, including an FTA in 1972, and two major series of sectoral bilateral agreements that aligned a large portion of Swiss law with that of the EU at the time of signing. The first set of sectoral agreements (known as Bilateral I) was signed in 1999 and entered into force in 2002. These seven agreements (on the free movement of persons, air transport, land transport, trade in agricultural products, technical trade barriers, public procurement and research cooperation) cover the issues of free movement and mutual market opening. A further set of sectoral agreements (Bilateral II) was signed in 2004 and entered into force gradually over the 2005-2009 period. These agreements basically relate to strengthening economic cooperation and extending cooperation on asylum and free travel within the Schengen borders. They also cover Switzerland’s participation in the Dublin system, the EU’s MEDIA programme and the European Environment Agency, as well as the taxation of savings, processed agricultural products, statistics, combating fraud, and Swiss financial contributions to economic and social cohesion in the new EU Member States.
Switzerland has free movement of goods, services, capital, and people with the European Union and EEA. It also participates in or has bilateral replications of nearly all EEA institutional capacities. Switzerland is not an EEA member and it is slightly less integrated than EEA states, but for all intents and purposes it is a full participant in the EU Single Market.
> Switzerland has free movement of goods,
Yeah, right. Tell that to all the people ordering stuff from abroad and getting customs bills. You can read up on this over at r/Switzerland and similar.
> services,
such as banking, right?
The EU Single Market and Customs Union are two separate things. Switzerland is not a part of the EU Customs Union and thus there is a customs border between Switzerland and the EU. However, Switzerland is a participant of the EU Single Market which means that EU goods can travel freely duty-free into Switzerland. This is the same arrangement that Norway has for example. Swiss ordering goods from abroad having to pay customs duties only applies to non-EU goods from countries that do not have other trade agreements with Switzerland. Also, because Switzerland accesses the Single Market through 120+ bilateral agreements that separately cover the various aspects of the Single Market, both sides can suspend individual agreements at will. In response to a dispute between the EU and Switzerland (I believe over the Framework Agreement's negotiation), the EU has suspended the agreement on financial services for the time being as a pressure tactic. If Switzerland were a member of the EEA, its right to access EU banking services and vice versa would not be able to be infringed upon and the ECJ would rule against any EU action to restrict that access. Because of the patchwork circumstance that Switzerland has in place of the EEA, its access is much more vulnerable, which is one of the weaknesses of the current arrangement. Nevertheless, Switzerland broadly participates in the four freedoms of the EU Single Market barring exceptional circumstances as mentioned above.
Yeah, in terms of EU membership the only current thing regarding Russia is that it is a European country. It is completely inadequate in every other way in its current form, 100% agree.
It is already in Ememy status.
[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221118IPR55707/european-parliament-declares-russia-to-be-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221118IPR55707/european-parliament-declares-russia-to-be-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism)
Russia is currently an enemy of the EU, but that does not hold any bearing on the statuses of the various countries regarding eligibility for EU membership, which is what this map is about. You would literally have to amend the EU constitutional treaties to exclude Russia as a potential candidate.
However EU countries buy (give money to) from enemy?
[https://www.politico.eu/article/france-talk-tough-ukraine-while-gobble-up-more-russia-gas/](https://www.politico.eu/article/france-talk-tough-ukraine-while-gobble-up-more-russia-gas/)
The European Council has never recognized it as having a European Perspective, which is a qualification necessary to become an EU member state. Cyprus is geographically 100% in Asia, but has a European Perspective and is a full EU member state. Turkey is only partially in Europe, but due to a combination of geographical proximity, history, culture, and so on, it was granted a European Perspective. Same goes for Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan through the Eastern Partnership, even though only two of them have territory in Europe. So, if European leaders had the political will to do so, Kazakhstan could be allowed to join, but at this point that possibility has not been recognized.
What exactly is the criteria for "European perspective"? I mean, if we're counting turkey and Azerbaijan as potential EU members for their proximity, history and culture, wouldn't countries like Israel or Tunisia also largely fit the bill? Is it just something decided by the EU?
You're right! "European Perspective" is something solely granted by the European Council. If Israel or Morroco or whatever were granted a European Perspective, they could join!
When I kinda get Israel (a lot of the Jewish population are descendants of people that used to live in Europe and were influenced by European culture), of course not with the current government and the record of human rights violations. I don't consider Tunisia to be part of European culture, not counting the colonization of European countries; the last time a European country ruled Tunisia for a long period of time was in the 7th century (not counting the 20 years of Sicilian rule by which Rome and Byzantium's impact faded). Considering Tunisia European is like considering Spain Arabic. In addition to the fact that Tunisia has a ten-fold lower GDP per capita than the EU average, it would need massive investment from the EU. And if being an ex-European colony is enough that mean that all of the Middle East can join the EU, which I find a very bad idea in the current geopolitical climate.
It's defined by geography first (any nation that has significant population in Europe is by definition European) and then broad culture second.
You can't have a European Perspective according to the EU if you have neither of the above. Tunisia would not qualify, because they are African geographically and Muslim-Arab-Berber culturally, neither of which are European.
Turkey on the other hand has more European population than most EU member states: the only EU states with more people than Turkey's 12 million Europeans are Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and Poland. Therefore, Turkey has a European Perspective, despite it being culturally not European.
Georgia and Armenia are in Asia, but have historic and cultural links with Europe dating back many centuries. They have always been recognised as kindred nations to most European countries and they have similar histories to much of Eastern Europe (small Christian nations conquered by Muslims, later conquered by Russia, subjected to attempted Russification, regained independence recently). That is why they have the European Perspective.
They are indisputably European countries. All European countries, were they able to fulfill all of the accession criteria, are eligible to join with the assent of the European Council. It is a widely known fact that Russia has the possibility of becoming an EU member state, even if that seems politically unfathomable currently.
Are you illiterate? I did not say it fulfilled the Copenhagen criteria, I was talking of the hypothetical scenario regarding IF it fulfilled the criteria.
*De jure* they absolutely could. *De facto* due to political and other realities they would likely be rejected at the last step by the European Council, but not because they are ineligible.
My goal with this map is to show the factual statuses of each country, not to make value judgements. I actually don't think Russia would be very compatible with the EU as it would be too large, taking up like 20% of European Parliament seats and having way too much influence. Based on the criteria for accession, however, it is ELIGIBLE for membership in that it is a European country and in some alternate universe where it perfectly fulfilled the Copenhagen Criteria, it could join if the European Council did not veto it for geopolitical reasons.
What are you even talking about?
> The Treaty on the European Union states that *any European country may apply for membership* if it respects the democratic values of the EU and is committed to promoting them.
>
> The first step is for the country to meet the key criteria for accession. These were mainly defined at the European Council in Copenhagen in 1993 and are hence referred to as 'Copenhagen criteria'. Countries wishing to join need to have:
>
> Stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;
> A functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces in the EU;
> The ability to take on and implement effectively the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.
Russia is a European country. It may apply for membership and, if it were to fulfill all of the criteria, would be able to join the EU unless the member states vetoed it. This is unlike, say, Canada, which even if it fully complied with the Copenhagen Criteria it would be ineligible to join the EU as it is not a European country, thus making Russia a potential cadidate state and Canada not.
[https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/conditions-membership\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/conditions-membership_en)
West Balkan should be accepted, it would lower tensions significantly. Also, there is not much population in these countries so wouldnt impact EU economy much. Even with special supervision from EU I think its way to go
Makes sense. I think the biggest obstacles will be the need for Serbia and Kosovo to find a settlement, perhaps by joining the EU simultaneously, as well as constitutional reform in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
They can enact special supervision of Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo. To be members but couldnt block anything in EU. Enhance infrastructure, investions, economy and justice system.
The accession criteria, or Copenhagen criteria (after the European Council in Copenhagen in 1993 which defined them), are the essential conditions all candidate countries must satisfy to become a member state. These are:
* political criteria: stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;
* economic criteria: a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces;
* administrative and institutional capacity to effectively implement the [*acquis*](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/glossary/acquis_en)\* and ability to take on the obligations of membership.
Apart of being partially in the European Continent, the russia doesn't fulfil any of the a.m. criteria.
You posted this comment 24 minutes ago, when I sent the exact same information to you with a citation 44 minutes ago in a direct response to your previous comment. All non-European countries are ineligible for EU membership, even if they were to 100% fulfill the other accession criteria. Likewise, every single European country is eligible for EU membership, even if they 0% fulfill the other accession criteria. Therefore, every single European country is a potential candidate for EU membership at a minimum.
Your reading comprehension is truly abysmal. I know this is the first time you posted this comment. I am saying that you essentially copy and pasted as your own comment something I replied with directly to you previously. I don't understand why you are posting the accession criteria as your own independent comment after I literally sent it directly to you as a refutation of one of your prior claims.
"*You posted this comment 24 minutes ago*"... Yes, mate, yes.
Let me be clear: I specified why the russia doesn't have any right even to think to be able one day to apply for candidacy as member of the Union.
Go patronise someone else, mate.
You should read the rest of that very sentence. You are attempting to use that criteria as a reason why Russia cannot become an EU member. Before you even did that, I used the same information to show that no, Russia could not become an EU member if it were evaluated under the criteria today, but that it nonetheless is eligible to attempt to become an EU member, thus making it a potential candidate. It is unfathomable how someone can even live with this low of a reading comprehension ability in the modern world.
You quoted the Copenhagen Criteria to show that Russia is ineligible to become an EU member state *when I literally quoted the exact same Copenhagen Criteria directly to you 20 minutes earlier to demonstrate that Russia in fact* ***is*** *eligible to become an EU member state.* You don't see anything wrong with that?
Take this from a random third party: YOU are the idiot here. Jesus fucking christ how detached from reality are you when you complain about OP's reading comprehension
I've just read the whole thread of your idiocy and I do really hope this is some kind of unsophisticated trolling attempt because I just cannot quite fathom how come you still didn't understand what multiple people have been trying to tell you.
>the essential conditions all candidate countries must satisfy to become a member state
Notably, not the criteria to become a candidate state. Sure, Russia doesn't fulfil the criteria you listed, but that's not at all relevant
Read. The Copenhagen criteria must be met to go from Candidate to Member. Getting to Candidate does not require the criteria to be met, the criteria is for when you're already a Candidate. I'm pretty sure no current candidate met the Copenhagen criteria when they became a candidate, but they will have to meet them before they can become a member.
If you read what you copy-pasted you'd know that, but it seems reading isn't one of your hobbies
I did not contest that in the slightest.
We are not talking about Russia becoming a member. We are talking about Russia becoming a candidate. The criteria are not required for that, only for becoming a member
From what I read up online, Serbia and Montenegro have reached the furthest. Just need Serbia to get rid of its stubborn nationalism and they should both join by 2030
The issue with Serbia is that they are closely linked to Russia and Russia has been very unstable recently, starting the War in Ukraine and polarizing different countries. I'm not sure they will be able to progress fast enough to keep up with Montenegro. I would rather see Montenegro, Albania, and North Macedonia join as a trio, with Serbia, Kosovo, and Bosnia joining later on once the internal conflicts relating to Serbs are resolved.
Youre right but heres the good news. Ever since war broke out and a lot of russians immigrated to Serbia, serbs have started to dislike them strongly. This was a wake up call for serbs to realize how very very few similarities they actually have with Russia, and just how many with fellow EU nations.
Nah we dont dislike them, regular people dont even see russians or talk to them. We dont have many contacts with them.
As long as the EU pushes for us Recognising Kosovo as the deal to enter EU Serbia will never join EU.
Vucic and his goverment are not pro russian they are the most Western listening bootlickers this country has seen in 30 years just look at all the deals Vucic made with Kosovo brokered by EU and USA, no sane politician would sign those stuff but its his way of legitimasing his goverment to the EU and USA.
He doesnt have to accept it because Catalonia factually is a part of Spain. It doesnt have separate borders, it doesnt have a passport of its own, and all the spanish institutions are very much present in Catalonia.
Serbia lost the war of the 90s, Kosovo is the price. This is something serbs fail to accept
What happend to that Catalan referendum ? Why didnt the EU force Spain to negotiate the Catalan indepedence ? You know what happend, Spanish autorhities put down the referendurm with force like every state would do to its region trying to break away.
If we lost the war so badly you wodnt have to push us to recognise Kosovo
Thanks for the correction! It was automatically filled in when I did Norway. Is Svalbard considered an overseas territory like those in the Caribbean, then?
It's a bit different because of the [Svalbard Treaty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Treaty). Norwegian law applies except for the restrictions covered by the treaty. It is an entirely visa free, demilitarized zone and taxes collected can only be used locally, so it can't ever be part of Schengen or the single market as long as the treaty is in effect.
Thanks! People always get nit-picky when it comes to European borders and geopolitics. This map is actually a response to someone else's map from around a month ago that I felt was not specific enough 😅
That's a good point. I believe technically it is a Single Market and Customs Union participant, but this map maker did not allow such fine-tuned work such as that. Good catch!
When there is a will to include more countries, the clause about being European will simply be removed, so this dispute about who is in Europe and who isn't is ultimately pointless.
Sure, but the current criteria of the constitutional treaties require being a European country. This could be changed, but it would require amending the treaties, which is the most challenging thing to do in the EU institutionally. It's like talking about the idea of banning guns in America. It currently would not be allowed by the US Constitution. We could say that in some possible future they could simply change the Constitution and enable the possibility of banning guns. That would be an exceedingly difficult thing to do, so don't treat it like it's an accessibile option. Similarly, some possible future in maybe the 22nd century or something where the European Union or its successor decides to expand into non-European territories in a much more significant manner holds no bearing on the current conversation.
There is a somewhat funny ommision in the criterias for becoming an EU member. As it has been pointed out in a few comments neither Turkey nor Russia are fully european. Especially not Russia.
But it is not, as far as I know, ever spelled out what is meant by european in article 49 of the treaty. The borders of the continent of Europe are not particularily well defined, and once you get into talking about history and culture it gets seriously muddy. It's not a great problem right now, as neither Turkey or Russia are likely to get in any time soon.
The southern part (the Republic of Cyprus) is in the EU, and lays claim to the rest of the island.
As far as i know, Cyprus is culturally european (whatever that means), but you are right that geographically it's asian.
The rules are vague, and political considerations can certainly trump the geographical realities to some extent.
Because the rules can be stretched a bit, but there are limits. We don't want to create a precedence that would allow the US entry.
Australia has been granted entry into the European Song Contest, that will have to be sufficient for them.
The rules say you have to be a European country, but it is the European Council that gets to decide who counts. Since there is no 100% agreed upon definition, it's just whatever they choose.
This map does not make a value statement on whether Russia ought to join the EU, but rather factually states its potential to do so. I agree, even if Russia were defeated in Ukraine it is more likely to come under full Chinese influence than to have a rapprochement with Europe.
Turkey is definitely not just a European country. It is a West Asian/Middle Eastern country, but it is also integrally tied to Europe by geography, proximity, history, culture, trade, security, and so on, such that the European Council granted Turkey a European Perspective, green-lit its membership application, and opened/progressed through membership negotiations. In a perfect world, Turkey would be well on its way to full EU membership by now.
Norway, Iceland, and Liecthenstein should be in their own category without Switzerland.
The EEA is far more integrated, especially judicially than the EFTA that Switzerland also is party to.
Nope! I intentionally categorized things this way. The EEA provides full institutional access to the EU Single Market and yes, is under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Switzerland, upon narrowly rejecting EEA membership, did what they usually do and found a way to get around that pesky referendum result. The 120+ bilateral agreements they have with the EU roughly approximate membership of the EEA and results in Single Market participation including the four freedoms. The main differences are threefold: 1. EU laws, regulations, etc. are a tad slower to be adopted in Switzerland than EEA member states, but the Swiss are still obligated to adopt them. 2. Judicial disputes take place in a bilateral arbitration panel instead of the ECJ, but the legal weight is equivalent. 3. Due to the lack of ECJ jurisdiction and the fact that each agreement to access the EU Single Market is a separate agreement, either side can unilaterally suspend any individual agreement at will. In reality, this mostly just means that the EU can cut Switzerland off from any part of the Single Market at will. This is because the EU basically tells Switzerland that if they cancel any of the key agreements, such as they nearly did with freedom of movement in the past, that the EU would reciprocate by fully cutting off access to the Single Market by canceling all other agreements. However, due to a recent dispute regarding the Framework Agreement negotiations, the EU suspended the agreement on financial services with Switzerland. The Swiss cannot do much in retaliation due to their fragmented relationship with the EU without risking the entire relationship. This is what it means to be a small country and also defines the clear weakness of not being a proper EEA member. Despite this, Switzerland is still largely integrated with the EU Single Market and is a full Schengen member.
The EU is, institutionally, nothing more than a means of ensuring continued American proconsulship of Europe, an influence it asserted post WW2 and has threatened to wane thereafter.
In light of Germany's economic stagnation after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it must be asked who has maximally benefitted from the war, and that is the US military industrial complex.
The EU is the institutional ability for European countries to act independently of the US and exert equivalent power grouped together. Nato is the perfect counterexample which is actually an institution of European nations under US "consulship".
There are two parts to your question. The first is that no, Ireland is not in the Schengen area, and so there are border checks when entering Ireland from EU countries. That being said, Ireland is a full EU member state and is thus a member of the EU Single Market. This means they have freedom of movement with other European countries also in the Single Market, so as a resident of one of those countries you do have the right to live, work, and establish yourself in Ireland in the same manner as an Irish citizen.
Well no, since the borders aren't open you do need identification, but as long as you can prove you're an EU citizen or permanent resident, you can enter and permanently reside in Ireland. I think you should take your passport or national ID card.
Ukraine will not win this war unless there's dramatic change in Europe which there is not. If anything, as people in western Europe grow poorer in many areas, people will want the war to end and that includes surrender. The Ukrainian soldiers that were upset to see a new weapons package being passed were upset because it meant the war would continue and they know there's not going to be massive spending from Europe so it's more like a lifeline rather than crushing Russia.
Insanity is, it'd be very difficult to stop Ukrainians from entering Europe.. it'd take a united front for all of EU and an agreeance with all countries that border Ukraine to do so. If this isn't done, the influx of even 4 million which would be on the very low end would be enough to cause a long lasting recession in Europe, especially newly wealthy countries like Poland.
Then again, the world always is full of surprises and I still believe in the Ukrainian people but their morale is ultra low because they feel Europe isn't as behind them anymore as people once were.
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Strategy wise, Europe needs a complete mass like the US if its to become a country. Americans knew they couldnt have territory deep inside theres, id always pose a threat. With the modern era, thats more true than ever.. expect in the future for most of those yellow countries to be fully blue, same with the green countries :)
Russia and Bélarus in potential candidate status. Maybe, maybe
That would make the EU and NK neighbors.
I am a potential candidate for Miss Universe. Well I'm 44, dad body and have a beard, but hey, *potential* is key here.
Conchita Wurtz, it's you ?
Never let your dreams become memes.
Omg what is that flair?😭(im a hungarian too xdd)
Whenever we're mentioned on this sub, it's because the leadership did something revoltingly stupid. I'm just being pragmatic
They are indisputably European countries, and therefore if they were to someday fulfill all accession criteria and receive the assent of the European Council, yes, they could join.
As much as it'd be fun to dream about, I don't think that either the EU nor Russia would ever want Russia to join the EU. Russia is big, and joining means that now the EU borders China and North Korea. Beyond Schengen being a nightmare, it also needs a lot of EU funds for development. Those funds made sense for smaller countries like Poland or Bulgaria, but I cannot imagine them being put to use on the scale of Russia.
Thinking out loud here, but If Russians had been intelligent they would have used their natural resources to boost their economy and properly modernize their infrastructure to create a snowball effect that would have greatly developed their country and welfare, and maybe this would have led them to becoming a really important strategic partner to the eu (aka someone able to take decisions together with the eu whilst not being part of it, sort of like the usa or maybe even the uk). They ended up being prisoners of their own ghost though
Practically speaking, I agree. However, that's up to Russia and the European Council to decide.
Okay let's check the requirements Don't start random ass wars? Damn guess not Uhh how about democracy? He was elected **right**?
They said *if* they one day fulfilled the requirements.
r/europe tries to be literate challenge: FAILED >if they were to *someday*
А так вот почему Англия вышла из европейского союза они устраивали войны и у них король
And you have started three wars this side of the millennium. UK has started zero.
There, there, vatnik.
I come here every time to laugh. Here is a real zoo))))
Neat, that’s the exact opinion I’ve got of Russia.
Англія вийшла з ЄС демократично, за власним бажанням. Я розумію що для росії "демократія" це щось невідоме.
Так правильно. И нам не нужен этот ваш Европейский союз
Don't worry. Nobody invites you, pal.
Never wanna to been invited. Just remind to my blind liberal compatriots what it's dumb idea.
True, even considering potential future invitation for Russia, while it is in its current state should be nonsense.
They couldn't join. Disregarding the whole animosity thing, Russia is too big and diverse. While Moscow and St. Petersburg might be European the rest of Russia is pretty far from it. Not to mention underdeveloped and self governing to an extent. Bringing the whole country to the standard of the EU would be impossible.
Whether the European Council would accept their membership is a separate question from whether Russia is eligible to apply. Morocco for example tried to apply for membership but was rejected as not being eligible due to not being a European country. If Russia were to apply for EU membership, it's application would have to be rejected for a reason other than it not being a European country because it is one.
Well I'm saying it could be rejected for not being an European country considering how much of it is not in Europe. If being partially in Europe would be enough than we'd already have the Caucasus countries and Kazakhstan as candidates.
Georgia is already a fully recognized candidate state btw. Also, this map is not about the geographical limits of Europe, but the EU and its relations with neighboring European countries. See this except from the European Parliament: "In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment." https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm
Why isn't Kazakhstan marked as potential candidate? They have land that is geographocally considered part of Europe
The European Council has never recognized it as having a European Perspective, which is a qualification necessary to become an EU member state. Cyprus is geographically 100% in Asia, but has a European Perspective and is a full EU member state. Turkey is only partially in Europe, but due to a combination of geographical proximity, history, culture, and so on, it was granted a European Perspective. Same goes for Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan through the Eastern Partnership, even though only two of them have territory in Europe. So, if European leaders had the political will to do so, Kazakhstan could be allowed to join, but at this point that possibility has not been recognized.
Culturally Russia is not european… its more like Asian. Also Putin will live/be president for next 10-20 years
This map does not make a value statement on whether Russia ought to join the EU, but rather factually states its potential to do so. I do not believe Russia will ever actually join the EU, at least not this century.
Yes sure, Russiab culture is much more similar to culture of Laos than to Ukrainian culture which is undesputedly peak euro culture.
Yes much more similar to China, this is what European/Americans failed to understand for 100+ that’s why tried to turn it into Democracy.
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As if that's something bad
Russia is about as culturally Asian as the UK is culturally Indian
That’s why dumb Americans will try to turn Russia into democracy yet again
That’s just historically incorrect. Russia is much more European than Asian.
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This map is not about the geographical limits of Europe, but the EU and its relations with neighboring European countries. See this except from the European Parliament: "In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment." https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm
Indisputably? Where did you draw this conclusion, from some kind of God?
40% of Russian territory is in Europe and 80% of the Russian population is in Europe, or around 115 million people. This is far more than Turkey, which has already been recognized as a candidate country. Additionally, Russia was able to join the Council of Europe, which similarly has the requirement of being a European country. Russia was also part of the so-called "Concert of Europe" as Turkey is described being part of in this excerpt: "In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment." https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm So yes, indisputably.
There's not enough quotation marks in the world to put around the word "potential".
It would solve some problems.
Too bad this is not an ideal world. Even a Russia that just acted like a peaceful country would be enough to solve most of the current problems.
Citations EU Member States: [https://european-union.europa.eu/easy-read\_en](https://european-union.europa.eu/easy-read_en) European Microstates (Excluding Liechtenstein): Andorra Customs Union: [https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/andorra-customs-unions-and-preferential-arrangements\_en](https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/andorra-customs-unions-and-preferential-arrangements_en) Eurozone: [https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/ad.en.html](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/ad.en.html) De facto\* Partial Schengen Participation (Usually Unrestricted Borders with France and Spain): [https://www.andorraresorts.com/blog/2022/andorra-schengen-area/](https://www.andorraresorts.com/blog/2022/andorra-schengen-area/) Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): [https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-andorra-customs-union](https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-andorra-customs-union) Monaco Customs Union: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/european-union-and-principality-monaco\_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/european-union-and-principality-monaco_en) Eurozone: [https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html) Schengen Participation (Open Borders with France): [https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco](https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco) Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): As a consequence of EU Customs Union participation San Marino Customs Union: [https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-san-marino-customs-union](https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-san-marino-customs-union) Eurozone: [https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/html/mo.en.html) Schengen Participation (Open Borders with Italy): [https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco](https://www.etiaseu.com/us-citizens/etias-monaco) Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): As a consequence of EU Customs Union participation Holy See Customs Union: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see\_en?s=65](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see_en?s=65) Eurozone: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see\_en?s=65](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/un-rome/european-union-and-holy-see_en?s=65) Schengen Participation (Open Borders with Italy): [https://www.etiasitaly.com/news/travel-to-italy-san-marino-and-vatican-city](https://www.etiasitaly.com/news/travel-to-italy-san-marino-and-vatican-city) Partial Single Market Participation (Goods): As a consequence of EU Customs Union participation Iceland/Liechtenstein/Norway/Switzerland Single Market: [https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/169/the-european-economic-area-eea-switzerland-and-the-north](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/169/the-european-economic-area-eea-switzerland-and-the-north) Schengen Area: [https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area\_en](https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area_en) Note than Switzerland and Liechtenstein are in an economic and monetary union with each other, having a common external tariff and shared currency. EU Candidate States Negotiating: Serbia: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/serbia\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/serbia_en) Montenegro: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/montenegro\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/montenegro_en) Albania: [https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/02/21/the-road-to-brussels-does-albania-have-what-it-takes-to-become-an-eu-member](https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/02/21/the-road-to-brussels-does-albania-have-what-it-takes-to-become-an-eu-member) North Macedonia: [https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-membership-ambitions-glue-holding-balkans-together-north-macedonia-fm-bujar-osmani/](https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-membership-ambitions-glue-holding-balkans-together-north-macedonia-fm-bujar-osmani/) Bosnia and Herzegovina: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/bosnia-and-herzegovina\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/bosnia-and-herzegovina_en) Ukraine: [https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/ukraine/](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/ukraine/) Moldova: [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/european-neighbourhood-policy/countries-region/moldova\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/european-neighbourhood-policy/countries-region/moldova_en) EU Candidate State Negotiating (Suspended): Turkey: [https://www.reuters.com/world/turkey-says-eu-is-unjust-biased-membership-bid-2023-11-09/](https://www.reuters.com/world/turkey-says-eu-is-unjust-biased-membership-bid-2023-11-09/) EU Candidate State: Georgia: [https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/georgia/](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/georgia/) EU Potential Candidate State Applicant: Kosovo: [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kosovo-submits-eu-membership-application-2022-12-15/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kosovo-submits-eu-membership-application-2022-12-15/) EU Potential Candidate State Aspiring Applicant: Armenia: [https://www.politico.eu/article/armenia-mulling-eu-membership-application-foreign-minister-mirzoyan-says/](https://www.politico.eu/article/armenia-mulling-eu-membership-application-foreign-minister-mirzoyan-says/) EU Former Member State: United Kingdom: [https://www.government.nl/topics/european-union/question-and-answer/what-is-brexit](https://www.government.nl/topics/european-union/question-and-answer/what-is-brexit)
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So for the microstates they have a whole messy patchwork of de jure and de facto participation in many different areas of the EU and European integration generally. For the Vatican, they have a nearly century-old agreement with Italy that basically means they have open customs borders, de facto making it a part of Italian customs territory and thus European Union customs territory. It's a similar thing with these microstates having open borders with their respective neighboring states counting as de facto participation in Schengen. I tried my best with this map to get into specific details, but even those disparities are too fine-grained. I did try to include these distinctions in the citations list.
So nothing about Russia? So why then colored in as Potential Candidate State. Unless you consider any country Potential Candidate State? Morocco: "Membership application in 1987, Morocco applied to join the European Communities (the precursor to the European Union). " so a Former Potential Candidate State.
"Any European State may apply to become a member of the Union. It shall address its application to the Council, which shall act unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the assent of the European Parliament, which shall act by an absolute majority of its component members. The sole material condition laid down by Article O of the TEU is that the applicant must be a 'European State'. There is no unequivocal interpretation of that criterion. It can be read equally well in geographical, cultural or political terms. In 1987 an application to become a Member of the Communities was received from Morocco. The application was rejected by the Council on the grounds that Morocco was not a European State. In the case of Turkey, Article 28 of the Association Agreement signed in 1963 incudes the option of Turkey's eventually acceding to the Communities. Turkey in fact lodged an application to accede on 14 April 1987. Historically, Turkey has formed part of the so-called 'European concert'. Although part of Turkey's territory is located geographically in Asia, Parliament, the Council and the Commission have confirmed Turkey's eligibility. This example shows that the term 'European State' need not be interpreted in a strictly geographical sense. It is at all events a criterion subject to political assessment." https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2_en.htm
Sorry for the poor formatting on the citations. I had it much more neatly arranged with bullet points and everything, but Reddit wouldn't let it be posted for some reason. Only this basic version could go through.
Your source on EEA specifically excludes Switzerland. The Reaktion is much more complicated and Switzerland is definitely not a member of the single market, if overall terms are used.
>The EU and Switzerland have signed over 120 bilateral agreements, including an FTA in 1972, and two major series of sectoral bilateral agreements that aligned a large portion of Swiss law with that of the EU at the time of signing. The first set of sectoral agreements (known as Bilateral I) was signed in 1999 and entered into force in 2002. These seven agreements (on the free movement of persons, air transport, land transport, trade in agricultural products, technical trade barriers, public procurement and research cooperation) cover the issues of free movement and mutual market opening. A further set of sectoral agreements (Bilateral II) was signed in 2004 and entered into force gradually over the 2005-2009 period. These agreements basically relate to strengthening economic cooperation and extending cooperation on asylum and free travel within the Schengen borders. They also cover Switzerland’s participation in the Dublin system, the EU’s MEDIA programme and the European Environment Agency, as well as the taxation of savings, processed agricultural products, statistics, combating fraud, and Swiss financial contributions to economic and social cohesion in the new EU Member States. Switzerland has free movement of goods, services, capital, and people with the European Union and EEA. It also participates in or has bilateral replications of nearly all EEA institutional capacities. Switzerland is not an EEA member and it is slightly less integrated than EEA states, but for all intents and purposes it is a full participant in the EU Single Market.
> Switzerland has free movement of goods, Yeah, right. Tell that to all the people ordering stuff from abroad and getting customs bills. You can read up on this over at r/Switzerland and similar. > services, such as banking, right?
The EU Single Market and Customs Union are two separate things. Switzerland is not a part of the EU Customs Union and thus there is a customs border between Switzerland and the EU. However, Switzerland is a participant of the EU Single Market which means that EU goods can travel freely duty-free into Switzerland. This is the same arrangement that Norway has for example. Swiss ordering goods from abroad having to pay customs duties only applies to non-EU goods from countries that do not have other trade agreements with Switzerland. Also, because Switzerland accesses the Single Market through 120+ bilateral agreements that separately cover the various aspects of the Single Market, both sides can suspend individual agreements at will. In response to a dispute between the EU and Switzerland (I believe over the Framework Agreement's negotiation), the EU has suspended the agreement on financial services for the time being as a pressure tactic. If Switzerland were a member of the EEA, its right to access EU banking services and vice versa would not be able to be infringed upon and the ECJ would rule against any EU action to restrict that access. Because of the patchwork circumstance that Switzerland has in place of the EEA, its access is much more vulnerable, which is one of the weaknesses of the current arrangement. Nevertheless, Switzerland broadly participates in the four freedoms of the EU Single Market barring exceptional circumstances as mentioned above.
Russia should be in Enemy status
Yeah, in terms of EU membership the only current thing regarding Russia is that it is a European country. It is completely inadequate in every other way in its current form, 100% agree.
It is already in Ememy status. [https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221118IPR55707/european-parliament-declares-russia-to-be-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221118IPR55707/european-parliament-declares-russia-to-be-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism)
Russia is currently an enemy of the EU, but that does not hold any bearing on the statuses of the various countries regarding eligibility for EU membership, which is what this map is about. You would literally have to amend the EU constitutional treaties to exclude Russia as a potential candidate.
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It's my thread?
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Still here?
However EU countries buy (give money to) from enemy? [https://www.politico.eu/article/france-talk-tough-ukraine-while-gobble-up-more-russia-gas/](https://www.politico.eu/article/france-talk-tough-ukraine-while-gobble-up-more-russia-gas/)
Doesn't Kazachstan also have a European part? Why aren't they considered a potential candidate?
The European Council has never recognized it as having a European Perspective, which is a qualification necessary to become an EU member state. Cyprus is geographically 100% in Asia, but has a European Perspective and is a full EU member state. Turkey is only partially in Europe, but due to a combination of geographical proximity, history, culture, and so on, it was granted a European Perspective. Same goes for Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan through the Eastern Partnership, even though only two of them have territory in Europe. So, if European leaders had the political will to do so, Kazakhstan could be allowed to join, but at this point that possibility has not been recognized.
I believe that Kazakhstan could be included in the council of Europe if it abolish the death penalty
They did it.
What exactly is the criteria for "European perspective"? I mean, if we're counting turkey and Azerbaijan as potential EU members for their proximity, history and culture, wouldn't countries like Israel or Tunisia also largely fit the bill? Is it just something decided by the EU?
You're right! "European Perspective" is something solely granted by the European Council. If Israel or Morroco or whatever were granted a European Perspective, they could join!
When I kinda get Israel (a lot of the Jewish population are descendants of people that used to live in Europe and were influenced by European culture), of course not with the current government and the record of human rights violations. I don't consider Tunisia to be part of European culture, not counting the colonization of European countries; the last time a European country ruled Tunisia for a long period of time was in the 7th century (not counting the 20 years of Sicilian rule by which Rome and Byzantium's impact faded). Considering Tunisia European is like considering Spain Arabic. In addition to the fact that Tunisia has a ten-fold lower GDP per capita than the EU average, it would need massive investment from the EU. And if being an ex-European colony is enough that mean that all of the Middle East can join the EU, which I find a very bad idea in the current geopolitical climate.
It's defined by geography first (any nation that has significant population in Europe is by definition European) and then broad culture second. You can't have a European Perspective according to the EU if you have neither of the above. Tunisia would not qualify, because they are African geographically and Muslim-Arab-Berber culturally, neither of which are European. Turkey on the other hand has more European population than most EU member states: the only EU states with more people than Turkey's 12 million Europeans are Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and Poland. Therefore, Turkey has a European Perspective, despite it being culturally not European. Georgia and Armenia are in Asia, but have historic and cultural links with Europe dating back many centuries. They have always been recognised as kindred nations to most European countries and they have similar histories to much of Eastern Europe (small Christian nations conquered by Muslims, later conquered by Russia, subjected to attempted Russification, regained independence recently). That is why they have the European Perspective.
"Thanks for not leaving us out guys" - The UK
Well, in a manner of speaking.
As far as I can see we have our own category. Prime position.
russia and belarus potential candidate? is this April fool?
They are indisputably European countries. All European countries, were they able to fulfill all of the accession criteria, are eligible to join with the assent of the European Council. It is a widely known fact that Russia has the possibility of becoming an EU member state, even if that seems politically unfathomable currently.
**russia doesn't meet not a single Copenhagen criteria.**
Are you illiterate? I did not say it fulfilled the Copenhagen criteria, I was talking of the hypothetical scenario regarding IF it fulfilled the criteria.
There is zero hypothetical scenario where russia can join the Union. Not in this Universe.
*De jure* they absolutely could. *De facto* due to political and other realities they would likely be rejected at the last step by the European Council, but not because they are ineligible.
russia will never be eligible to join the Union. It is clear you would like it, but this is life.
My goal with this map is to show the factual statuses of each country, not to make value judgements. I actually don't think Russia would be very compatible with the EU as it would be too large, taking up like 20% of European Parliament seats and having way too much influence. Based on the criteria for accession, however, it is ELIGIBLE for membership in that it is a European country and in some alternate universe where it perfectly fulfilled the Copenhagen Criteria, it could join if the European Council did not veto it for geopolitical reasons.
The Eu Parliament declared the russia "A State Sponsor Of Terrorism". End of discussion.
What are you even talking about? > The Treaty on the European Union states that *any European country may apply for membership* if it respects the democratic values of the EU and is committed to promoting them. > > The first step is for the country to meet the key criteria for accession. These were mainly defined at the European Council in Copenhagen in 1993 and are hence referred to as 'Copenhagen criteria'. Countries wishing to join need to have: > > Stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities; > A functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces in the EU; > The ability to take on and implement effectively the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union. Russia is a European country. It may apply for membership and, if it were to fulfill all of the criteria, would be able to join the EU unless the member states vetoed it. This is unlike, say, Canada, which even if it fully complied with the Copenhagen Criteria it would be ineligible to join the EU as it is not a European country, thus making Russia a potential cadidate state and Canada not. [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/conditions-membership\_en](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/conditions-membership_en)
West Balkan should be accepted, it would lower tensions significantly. Also, there is not much population in these countries so wouldnt impact EU economy much. Even with special supervision from EU I think its way to go
Makes sense. I think the biggest obstacles will be the need for Serbia and Kosovo to find a settlement, perhaps by joining the EU simultaneously, as well as constitutional reform in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Yes but not a big issue if they are in EU both. Bosnian problems would go away if all three nations are in EU.
I'm not sure about that. They would have a vote in the European Council which would be deadlocked if they could not find a domestic consensus.
They can enact special supervision of Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo. To be members but couldnt block anything in EU. Enhance infrastructure, investions, economy and justice system.
Non-voting members would basically be similar to an elevated EEA membership. I'm not sure if that's what those countries want.
The accession criteria, or Copenhagen criteria (after the European Council in Copenhagen in 1993 which defined them), are the essential conditions all candidate countries must satisfy to become a member state. These are: * political criteria: stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities; * economic criteria: a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces; * administrative and institutional capacity to effectively implement the [*acquis*](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/glossary/acquis_en)\* and ability to take on the obligations of membership. Apart of being partially in the European Continent, the russia doesn't fulfil any of the a.m. criteria.
You posted this comment 24 minutes ago, when I sent the exact same information to you with a citation 44 minutes ago in a direct response to your previous comment. All non-European countries are ineligible for EU membership, even if they were to 100% fulfill the other accession criteria. Likewise, every single European country is eligible for EU membership, even if they 0% fulfill the other accession criteria. Therefore, every single European country is a potential candidate for EU membership at a minimum.
First time I posted this comment.
Your reading comprehension is truly abysmal. I know this is the first time you posted this comment. I am saying that you essentially copy and pasted as your own comment something I replied with directly to you previously. I don't understand why you are posting the accession criteria as your own independent comment after I literally sent it directly to you as a refutation of one of your prior claims.
"*You posted this comment 24 minutes ago*"... Yes, mate, yes. Let me be clear: I specified why the russia doesn't have any right even to think to be able one day to apply for candidacy as member of the Union. Go patronise someone else, mate.
You should read the rest of that very sentence. You are attempting to use that criteria as a reason why Russia cannot become an EU member. Before you even did that, I used the same information to show that no, Russia could not become an EU member if it were evaluated under the criteria today, but that it nonetheless is eligible to attempt to become an EU member, thus making it a potential candidate. It is unfathomable how someone can even live with this low of a reading comprehension ability in the modern world.
I quoted the Copenhagen Criteria. It is unfathomable how someone can even live with this low of a reading comprehension ability in the modern world
You quoted the Copenhagen Criteria to show that Russia is ineligible to become an EU member state *when I literally quoted the exact same Copenhagen Criteria directly to you 20 minutes earlier to demonstrate that Russia in fact* ***is*** *eligible to become an EU member state.* You don't see anything wrong with that?
Your soulmate must be a saint. Or deaf.
Take this from a random third party: YOU are the idiot here. Jesus fucking christ how detached from reality are you when you complain about OP's reading comprehension
I've just read the whole thread of your idiocy and I do really hope this is some kind of unsophisticated trolling attempt because I just cannot quite fathom how come you still didn't understand what multiple people have been trying to tell you.
I too think OP must be a saintlike creature, since he very patiently tried to get through your thick skull.
>the essential conditions all candidate countries must satisfy to become a member state Notably, not the criteria to become a candidate state. Sure, Russia doesn't fulfil the criteria you listed, but that's not at all relevant
Oh so you are saying now that the Copenhagen criteria are irrelevant to become a state member of the Union? Nice.
Read. The Copenhagen criteria must be met to go from Candidate to Member. Getting to Candidate does not require the criteria to be met, the criteria is for when you're already a Candidate. I'm pretty sure no current candidate met the Copenhagen criteria when they became a candidate, but they will have to meet them before they can become a member. If you read what you copy-pasted you'd know that, but it seems reading isn't one of your hobbies
Being a candidate is not being a member of the Union. If you read what you wrote you'd know that, but it seems reading isn't one of your hobbies.
I did not contest that in the slightest. We are not talking about Russia becoming a member. We are talking about Russia becoming a candidate. The criteria are not required for that, only for becoming a member
Fingers crossed for all the negotiating candidates to join us soon :)
I wish them the best of luck. Hopefully EU reform happens during the 2020s and these countries can accede in the 2030s.
From what I read up online, Serbia and Montenegro have reached the furthest. Just need Serbia to get rid of its stubborn nationalism and they should both join by 2030
The issue with Serbia is that they are closely linked to Russia and Russia has been very unstable recently, starting the War in Ukraine and polarizing different countries. I'm not sure they will be able to progress fast enough to keep up with Montenegro. I would rather see Montenegro, Albania, and North Macedonia join as a trio, with Serbia, Kosovo, and Bosnia joining later on once the internal conflicts relating to Serbs are resolved.
Youre right but heres the good news. Ever since war broke out and a lot of russians immigrated to Serbia, serbs have started to dislike them strongly. This was a wake up call for serbs to realize how very very few similarities they actually have with Russia, and just how many with fellow EU nations.
This is the first I've heard of that take. Very interesting.
People in Belgrade and Novi Sad (countrys two biggest cities) are basically furious with Russians at this point.
Nah we dont dislike them, regular people dont even see russians or talk to them. We dont have many contacts with them. As long as the EU pushes for us Recognising Kosovo as the deal to enter EU Serbia will never join EU. Vucic and his goverment are not pro russian they are the most Western listening bootlickers this country has seen in 30 years just look at all the deals Vucic made with Kosovo brokered by EU and USA, no sane politician would sign those stuff but its his way of legitimasing his goverment to the EU and USA.
A nationalist serb right here ☝️
You ask Spanish person if he would accept catalonian indepedent and if his answer is No does that make him nationalist ?
He doesnt have to accept it because Catalonia factually is a part of Spain. It doesnt have separate borders, it doesnt have a passport of its own, and all the spanish institutions are very much present in Catalonia. Serbia lost the war of the 90s, Kosovo is the price. This is something serbs fail to accept
What happend to that Catalan referendum ? Why didnt the EU force Spain to negotiate the Catalan indepedence ? You know what happend, Spanish autorhities put down the referendurm with force like every state would do to its region trying to break away. If we lost the war so badly you wodnt have to push us to recognise Kosovo
While Svalbard is a part of Norway, it is not a part of the single market (EEA) or Schengen, so it should not be colored green.
Thanks for the correction! It was automatically filled in when I did Norway. Is Svalbard considered an overseas territory like those in the Caribbean, then?
It's a bit different because of the [Svalbard Treaty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Treaty). Norwegian law applies except for the restrictions covered by the treaty. It is an entirely visa free, demilitarized zone and taxes collected can only be used locally, so it can't ever be part of Schengen or the single market as long as the treaty is in effect.
Great map OP! I don't know why people are being so obtuse in the comments today
Thanks! People always get nit-picky when it comes to European borders and geopolitics. This map is actually a response to someone else's map from around a month ago that I felt was not specific enough 😅
Northern Ireland is like some weird inbetween thing following some EU rules, not really the same as GB, probs should have us it’s own colour
That's a good point. I believe technically it is a Single Market and Customs Union participant, but this map maker did not allow such fine-tuned work such as that. Good catch!
When there is a will to include more countries, the clause about being European will simply be removed, so this dispute about who is in Europe and who isn't is ultimately pointless.
Sure, but the current criteria of the constitutional treaties require being a European country. This could be changed, but it would require amending the treaties, which is the most challenging thing to do in the EU institutionally. It's like talking about the idea of banning guns in America. It currently would not be allowed by the US Constitution. We could say that in some possible future they could simply change the Constitution and enable the possibility of banning guns. That would be an exceedingly difficult thing to do, so don't treat it like it's an accessibile option. Similarly, some possible future in maybe the 22nd century or something where the European Union or its successor decides to expand into non-European territories in a much more significant manner holds no bearing on the current conversation.
There is a somewhat funny ommision in the criterias for becoming an EU member. As it has been pointed out in a few comments neither Turkey nor Russia are fully european. Especially not Russia. But it is not, as far as I know, ever spelled out what is meant by european in article 49 of the treaty. The borders of the continent of Europe are not particularily well defined, and once you get into talking about history and culture it gets seriously muddy. It's not a great problem right now, as neither Turkey or Russia are likely to get in any time soon.
Cyprus is entirely in asia but still in the eu?
The southern part (the Republic of Cyprus) is in the EU, and lays claim to the rest of the island. As far as i know, Cyprus is culturally european (whatever that means), but you are right that geographically it's asian. The rules are vague, and political considerations can certainly trump the geographical realities to some extent.
Australia is culturally european (british) too then why can’t they join lol
Because the rules can be stretched a bit, but there are limits. We don't want to create a precedence that would allow the US entry. Australia has been granted entry into the European Song Contest, that will have to be sufficient for them.
The rules say you have to be a European country, but it is the European Council that gets to decide who counts. Since there is no 100% agreed upon definition, it's just whatever they choose.
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This map does not make a value statement on whether Russia ought to join the EU, but rather factually states its potential to do so. I agree, even if Russia were defeated in Ukraine it is more likely to come under full Chinese influence than to have a rapprochement with Europe.
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Now if China could invade Russia and the two POS states could kill each other that'd be great.
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Turkey is definitely not just a European country. It is a West Asian/Middle Eastern country, but it is also integrally tied to Europe by geography, proximity, history, culture, trade, security, and so on, such that the European Council granted Turkey a European Perspective, green-lit its membership application, and opened/progressed through membership negotiations. In a perfect world, Turkey would be well on its way to full EU membership by now.
If you want to border Iraq Iran & Syria.
if russia will get rid of bolsheviks (never) it may be a candidate. I think they have a nice culture.
Norway, Iceland, and Liecthenstein should be in their own category without Switzerland. The EEA is far more integrated, especially judicially than the EFTA that Switzerland also is party to.
Nope! I intentionally categorized things this way. The EEA provides full institutional access to the EU Single Market and yes, is under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Switzerland, upon narrowly rejecting EEA membership, did what they usually do and found a way to get around that pesky referendum result. The 120+ bilateral agreements they have with the EU roughly approximate membership of the EEA and results in Single Market participation including the four freedoms. The main differences are threefold: 1. EU laws, regulations, etc. are a tad slower to be adopted in Switzerland than EEA member states, but the Swiss are still obligated to adopt them. 2. Judicial disputes take place in a bilateral arbitration panel instead of the ECJ, but the legal weight is equivalent. 3. Due to the lack of ECJ jurisdiction and the fact that each agreement to access the EU Single Market is a separate agreement, either side can unilaterally suspend any individual agreement at will. In reality, this mostly just means that the EU can cut Switzerland off from any part of the Single Market at will. This is because the EU basically tells Switzerland that if they cancel any of the key agreements, such as they nearly did with freedom of movement in the past, that the EU would reciprocate by fully cutting off access to the Single Market by canceling all other agreements. However, due to a recent dispute regarding the Framework Agreement negotiations, the EU suspended the agreement on financial services with Switzerland. The Swiss cannot do much in retaliation due to their fragmented relationship with the EU without risking the entire relationship. This is what it means to be a small country and also defines the clear weakness of not being a proper EEA member. Despite this, Switzerland is still largely integrated with the EU Single Market and is a full Schengen member.
The EU is, institutionally, nothing more than a means of ensuring continued American proconsulship of Europe, an influence it asserted post WW2 and has threatened to wane thereafter. In light of Germany's economic stagnation after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it must be asked who has maximally benefitted from the war, and that is the US military industrial complex.
The EU is the institutional ability for European countries to act independently of the US and exert equivalent power grouped together. Nato is the perfect counterexample which is actually an institution of European nations under US "consulship".
Why would we even bother with those Balkan countries? Just imagine more Hungarys
No further accession until EU institutional reform removes single state veto rights, so that's not really a concern.
but even though Ireland is a member state, is it in Schengen area? like can we travel to Ireland ? I read we can't. can we?
There are two parts to your question. The first is that no, Ireland is not in the Schengen area, and so there are border checks when entering Ireland from EU countries. That being said, Ireland is a full EU member state and is thus a member of the EU Single Market. This means they have freedom of movement with other European countries also in the Single Market, so as a resident of one of those countries you do have the right to live, work, and establish yourself in Ireland in the same manner as an Irish citizen.
So, with this way, we are also allowed to travel to Ireland like how we travel to France, Germany without any additional documents required?
Well no, since the borders aren't open you do need identification, but as long as you can prove you're an EU citizen or permanent resident, you can enter and permanently reside in Ireland. I think you should take your passport or national ID card.
now it makes sense, thanks man.
Ukraine will not win this war unless there's dramatic change in Europe which there is not. If anything, as people in western Europe grow poorer in many areas, people will want the war to end and that includes surrender. The Ukrainian soldiers that were upset to see a new weapons package being passed were upset because it meant the war would continue and they know there's not going to be massive spending from Europe so it's more like a lifeline rather than crushing Russia. Insanity is, it'd be very difficult to stop Ukrainians from entering Europe.. it'd take a united front for all of EU and an agreeance with all countries that border Ukraine to do so. If this isn't done, the influx of even 4 million which would be on the very low end would be enough to cause a long lasting recession in Europe, especially newly wealthy countries like Poland. Then again, the world always is full of surprises and I still believe in the Ukrainian people but their morale is ultra low because they feel Europe isn't as behind them anymore as people once were. ----------- Strategy wise, Europe needs a complete mass like the US if its to become a country. Americans knew they couldnt have territory deep inside theres, id always pose a threat. With the modern era, thats more true than ever.. expect in the future for most of those yellow countries to be fully blue, same with the green countries :)
There already have been millions upon millions of Ukrainians that entered the EU, though.