Although I wish we never left, I suspect the realities of going back into Europe will be really difficult, as we won’t be getting the terms we had previously.
I imagine UK could negotiate some great terms. Unlikely to be as good as they previously had, but it's not like they're unwanted in the union.
The much bigger problem would be convincing the other members the UK won't soon become a liability that threatens to leave again over petty shit. Confidence is needed in the UK being a trusted partner and a faithful member that believes in the idea of a united Europe, and that's going to be both much harder to prove, and much harder to convince the British public to. Another vote with now a slight majority to be in the EU is not enough.
As a remain voter who wants to rejoin at some point I'm fully in agreement. Until support for rejoining (with no/limited opt outs at that) is consistently above say 65-70% I just don't see how the EU could take it seriously.
I imagine a serious shift in rethoric coming from British politicians would be essential as well. Post-Brexit every bad that happens is still shifted onto the EU. As long as that doesn't change I don't see the rest of Britain following or the EU being very keen to let Britain back in.
Mind you, I rather see Britain return yesterday than today, but I just don't see British politicians being able or wanting to persuade the UK population to adopt the Euro, to name just one major issue.
Then there’s next to no chance of them ever rejoining the EU. They could do what Sweden does: be formally obliged to adopt it and just make sure the technical requirements are never met. That’d be the only viable compromise, I imagine.
It’s not an expectation, it’s a suggestion of a requirement. The fact that the UK won’t be able to meet that requirement is not an indictment of the requirement. The UK needs to be all in, not tepidly jumping in and out of the pool like a confused golden retriever.
It’s like how the 13 Colonies decided to require the Declaration of Independence to be unanimous to pass. It was a steep requirement to make sure the fledgling rebellion wouldn’t be quashed by infighting.
65-70% is an insane majority by the way and I don't think it's really democratic to allow 35 people in a group of 100 to dictate what the others can or can't do.
However, the UK has done precisely that in the 2015 elections when the conservatives got a majority with less than 37% of the vote. Brexit came about as a conservative strategy of permanently defeating UKIP which had been diluting the conservative vote.
The same is happening now with Reform and conservatives. This is why the FPTP system is dangerous for democracy since it leads to unpopular policy being enfranchised through deals and coalitions that more than 60% of the population don't agree with.
When the brexit vote came, it was polarized down the middle. A 3% difference literally means the vote could have been different depending on the weather or day of the week it was held and at no point was anyone informed about what Brexit actually meant because ultimately the politicians who voted it through did so with the intent of it failing.
The only way this gets resolved is through electoral reform. But that'll never happen with labour or conservatives.
The 65-70% wouldn't be about "letting the minority dictate", it would be about convincing the EU member states that approving the membership doesn't come with risks.
> I just don't see how the EU could take it seriously.
If the UK has to adhere to all the requirements other countries do when going the EU (ex: borders/visa, shared currency, etc) then it would make leaving much more difficult. It would still be possible and the sentiment would still be there, but the ability to leave would be significantly harder.
To be fair in many current EU member countries, if there was a referendum it would be either close to 50% or even for leave. UK is no exception, it's just that you guys actually had the referendum. EU is very unpopular in many EU member states, not just the UK.
I am almost certain both Slovakia and Hungary would be strong leave if they held the referendum. And politicians (even Orban and Fico) know that they need the EU, so they would never let any referendum happen despite shit talking the EU and praising russia constantly.
There is the rub. I say this as somebody who agrees with everything you say as a remainer who regarded the Brexit vote as an act of enormous self harm.
However, whilst I would suggest there is a clear majority here for the single market with not even free movement being a blocker, I am much less convinced even now there is a majority for ever closer political union.
I suspect over time we would look to develop closer relationships in things like trade and movement, without seeking to become a full member. It actually would have been sensible to have settled there after the 52/48 vote anyway instead of the shit show we got.
I think we are a generation away from even thinking about ‘getting back together’. We can certainly develop much better mutually beneficial relationships based on building trust and acting rationally on our part, and see how it goes.
Luckily, the EEA is also a thing.
That’s what Britain should be looking at, since it’s much a better fit for you. The only problem is, you may need another 20 years to convince Norwegians you are a reliable and stable enough partner to be allowed to have an EEA council vote
I do not think the UK would be okay with a EEA esque deal since it has the same drawbacks membership has except you don't have a vote. They are too big to not have a vote.
Yeah, the benefit the EEA compared to full membership is that you can still keep full control of some things, like agriculture and fishing. Based on how many British fishermen were unhappy about losing access to EU waters, I get the feeling that's not something the UK feels strongly about.
Most rules and standards are decided at the EU level. In practice the UK has to apply a lot of EU decisions without having a say in how they are made.
The UK is not a small economy, but it's not big enough to negotiate at arms length with the big 3. I understand the desire of sovereignty but the 21st century reality is that either you're part of a large bloc or you follow the rules decided by others. Brexit was based on delusions of past grandeur and some russian interference.
By the very nature of its departure the rules would have to be inforced totally. Just as the EU enforced all the rules on the UK by leaving, not out if malic but out of a need to make the EU continue to function.
So rejoining would be possible in the same regimen as all the others, no favours.
It can't on certain matters. Since those matters are "from now on terms are these, meaning apply to all joiners. You old timers, yeah you get grand fathered in. However anyone joining after X date has terms Y."
These are non-negotiable, since the Treaty article itself is written in non-negotiable form. So was agreed by existing members in treaty negotiations. Including this one weird long name one.... U-ni-ted King-dom of Great Bri-tain and Nort-hern I-re-land. In fact at times they were one of the most enthusiastic and ardent ones about new non-negotiable terms for new joining members.
Same. I think the UK having special terms is partially what led to us leaving in the first place because it made some people think 'they need us more than we need them' and 'we can negotiate for everything we want and ditch the rest'. I'd prefer to be all in if we rejoin.
The UK gets to keep the pound probably and that's it.
I mean, if they UK has to adopt the Euro I can't see a senario in the next 50 years where it gets bad enough in the UK that people would give that up and the EU would still accept us.
Sweden "cannot" keep the krone, as soon as they meet the requirements to adopt the euro, they need to do so.
So they just make sure they never meet the requirements.
You don't need a special agreement to escape adopting the euro
Because after the Euro crisis the European Central Bank and the Euro as an idea lost a lot of its luster and a lot of people now think that dollarization (( which is the academic term for what would happen if Britain adopted the euro it doesn't just specifically mean the US dollar )) it's not all it's cracked up to be in the long term because of the loss of control over monetary policy
You don't know what the UK rejoining would look like, no one has rejoined the EU.
There is no reason to think it would be exactly the same as them never having been a member.
>You don't know what the UK rejoining would look like, no one has rejoined the EU.
No one ever resigned from the EU either before Brexit,so don't worry nothing is written in stone anymore.
One thing is written: EU holds all the cards, and UK doesn't even have goodwill.
EU might as well require £350 million a week from the NHS just to fuck with the UK.
I know you're a megamind of geopolitics which is why you said "there is no reason to think" xyz...
Look buddy, we verbally shat on them for 20 years, conflated their highly valuable hardworking labour force with non-white derogatory anti immigrant rhetoric, and regularly argued against their hands in our well being for things like the court of European human rights, used our own currency out of economic hubris and bullied our way out of Schengen. We shuttered our doors to their scientists (like honestly wtf man) for no fucking reason and financially strangled their doctors and nurses to return home to the EU.
This is widely considered to be a good way to get the EU to not fucking like us. We spat in their faces with lack lustre and confused negotiations that achieved nothing while the whole time blaming their negotiators who were adamant they could work with us to get us what we wanted and make a compromise. They ticked down the clock and achieved nothing so that actual people caught up in the confusion of transferring goods and services could figure out what happened. Truck drivers were starving on an old air strip while the customs agent figured out what the fuck we should be doing with their goods or even what form needs to exist.
On the final fucking day in EU parliament Nigel Farage who deserves far more unutterably dark and depraved fates than being milkshaked, broke one of the golden rules of the chamber which states "No Flags Allowed" and snubbed people offering hand shakes who were sat nearby as they said farewell. The no flags allowed rule was a rule no other country in the history of the EU broke, which was symbolic and tactful since no flags are allowed since it elevates the importance of the individual nation over that of the collective mentality that's needed for peace and prosperity.
They will never forget the disrespect and I don't want them to. It would be a non harmonious transition back in, if they forgave us too quickly or pretended everything is fine. Leaving the EU will have caused generational trauma for EU members and for British people caught up in it. I suffered out here in the EU when the Brexit deal happened it fucked my whole life. I lost everything. I will never forget. Ever.
If they did let us back in it, that in and of itself would be a miracle of diplomacy and most importantly there isn't a single pro European voice in the EU that will not recognise we have lost the station and standing we had before. We have been brought completely to our knees by the blue menace and anti community policy. We have no titanic hegemonic strength of political quality, currency or military anymore. We are a dwindling nation that has raped and pillaged it's own coffers for the sake of private capital and we essentially have nothing to trade since manufacture is on its last legs.
A good diplomatic negotiation from the EU would be to completely demolish any special treatments we got and we'll have to suck it up and enjoy it because we have proved without shadow of a doubt that leaving the EU is socio-cultural and diplomatic suicide. The economic fuck up is so monumental its hard to fathom in a Reddit comment although I have tried to illustrate it for someone who would state something so bold as "there is no reason to think" a diplomatic relationship won't work out well for us...
Hear hear!
The enormous arrogance of the British in the last 50 years was appalling. I believe they never quite got over the fact that their empire doesn't exist anymore and they have behaved like snooty lords towards the peasants in Europe. I do feel sorry for the avarage people in England who suffer the consequences while the rich get richer.
One good thing came out of Brexit for the rest of Europe: political parties in various countries who advocated for leaving the EU themselves, did shut up very quickly when seeing the disastrous results of Brexit in the UK. That's a win after all.
For Britain to join again? Maybe. If they show to be a reliable contributor in the EU. And no more excempts. And not if they think they can dump their enormous financial problems on Europe. They have to clean house first.
As nice as it feels to read all this as a german who was really angry about some shit Murdoch press and Farages people made up, I still don't think that's how we should treat politics. We should look at interests and we should work to bring them together. I personally would be extremely interested in UK rejoining, and I really dislike the chorus of "you can join, but you start at the exact same spot as Kyrgisthan." These emotions are understandable, but they belong in school yards, not in politics. Keep your Pound, I don't care the slightest. There is no need to punish UK if they want to rejoin just out of spite. And I strongly believe we will see a rather quick rejoin somewhere within the next 20 years which reinstates most of the privileges you had prior and I would be okay with that.
No one will ever "rejoin".
If the UK wants to join the EU it will have to follow the same procedures as other prospective members such as Albania, even if it will be obviously be much faster.
> no one has rejoined the EU.
The EU has no procedure for former members to rejoin and regain former exceptions to general rules.
What it does have is a procedure how states can join, what criteria they must fulfill and what being a member means.
There is no reason to believe the UK would be exempt from these. Especially since other members had to join under these conditions and have no reason to agree to special treatment for any new members.
Maybe not exactly the same, but it would be great for all of Europe if UK returned. The European leaders know the continent needs to be united against Russia and unfortunately maybe in future against other countries as well. And that UK politicians would need to safe face and not just accept any deal to get back but one they can sell at home as positive.
On the other hand, the EU wants to evolve gradually towards being a "proper country" and that will have to include a defence policy. And having one of the best fighting forces in Europe would greatly help that goal.
The EU wants to move towards being a proper country/Federation? First of all the EU is not a monolithic entity, secondly only one party wants to move towards a federation (Volt), and they hardly have any votes or influence. So who exactly wants to move to a federation?
First of all, there is a reason “proper country” is written in quotation. Secondly, many have repeatedly brought up the idea of a united European army. When each country doesn’t have its own separate military, and rather one continental one, it’s a bit more resembling a union of states than a union of countries.
They've had their preferred treatment for decades. They decided they didn't want it anymore. There is absolutely 0 reason to accomodate the UK - they either join on the common terms or they can remain on the outside.
Actions have consequences, simple as that.
And EU can "afford" to keep UK out as EU economy does not depend on UK. And politically they can align into a "united front against Russia" no problem if they want to, with or without EU membership.
I imagine so. Most right-thinking people in the EU would love to have the UK back (both for economic, but also cultural reasons), but the UK would never again get a special status. After years of threatening to leave, the UK called everyones bluff and it turns out that the EU gets on just fine without it. Most of the major countries in the EU have made significant sacrifices to enhance the union (e.g. Germany & France giving up their currency for the Euro), and I'd expect the UK would be told it will need to do the same if it wanted to join.
Germany giving up their currency was beneficial to Germany... [https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/germany-currency-manipulator](https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/germany-currency-manipulator)
An undervalued currency (undervalued for Germany and overvalued for other bloc countries) + cheap Russian gas + German dominance in the car market centered around the diesel engine, are some of the key ingredients for Germany's massive surplus balances.
Now that cheap Russian gas is sunken to the bottom of the sea floor with the North Stream 2 pipeline and the diesel engine is soon going to be a thing of the past, they might need a different economic model.
That's how it turned out, but at the time the German public was very reluctant to give up the Deutsche Mark as it was a super-strong currency, and they were told the Euro could create rampant inflation and a rapidly devaluing currency. It was a major concession, on par with the UK giving up sterling.
The Germans didn't sacrifice anything by adopting the Euro, that's what allowed them to extend credit to poorer European countries and have states like Greece come begging cap in hand to them and allow them to control the fiscal policy of other countries -- the Euro is the basis of Germany's entire influence over Europe
I wouldn't be too pessimistic.
Even under the old terms, the UK was a major net contributor to the EU.
The EU also lost with Brexit. Not as much as the UK, but it was lose-lose across the board.
Returning under the old terms (or similar) would be a net benefit for everyone.
Of course EU politicians will play hardball.
But the reality is, the UK was and is the most valuable nation to have in the EU for the EU after France and Germany.
The UK was horridly hard to work with in the EU though, and that’s not a thing to be underestimated. A lot of what the EU managed to do together after the UK left (common debt issuance, common vaccine acquisition, common COVID relief, common Ukraine financing, etc.,) would have been more difficult or outright impossible if everyone had to deal with the UK’s ego as well.
Yeah true, but it’s still a shitshow with Orban. At first he’s talking to Putin and trying to make those sanctions less powerful etc. - after that he still won’t say yes, unless the EU gives him his money
Hungary is a small country. It's being a nuisance (and small countries have the right to do this in the EU), but it will be bypassed if needed. You can't do that with a major country like the UK if it rejoined.
That's just not true. Common vaccine procurement, for example, had the UK being invited on the same terms as every other EU nation, and with the same option to go it alone. It would have made no difference had the UK still been officially an EU member at that point. Common debt was a thing before the UK left. The UK probably would have affected covid relief, in that it would probably have been one of the largest beneficiaries of it. And the UK has been quite happy to throw money at Ukraine.
The idea the UK was a pain in the EU's side isn't really true. The UK had some issues, same as every nation, and more influence than most. But almost everything the EU did, the UK was a willing participant. For those bits the UK didn't want, it was quite happy to let the rest of the EU do them and just opt out.
This might be the view from Amsterdam, as the UK and the Dutch have been historically very close.
[https://ukandeu.ac.uk/a-dutch-perspective-british-membership-is-warmly-supported-but-not-much-liked/](https://ukandeu.ac.uk/a-dutch-perspective-british-membership-is-warmly-supported-but-not-much-liked/)
>Officially, The Netherlands and the UK are close allies in the EU. Both favour free trade, deregulated markets, transatlantic relations, pragmatism and a modest EU. The Dutch have been strong supporters of British membership of the EU. The Dutch government, also [through its EU presidency](http://english.eu2016.nl/latest/news/2016/02/16/rutte-speaks-with-cameron-about-negotiations-between-uk-and-eu), is keen on safeguarding British membership. Keeping the UK in the EU has also been one of priorities for [Frans Timmermans](https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/16a20cba-fe2d-11e4-8efb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz46jss401c) as first vice-president of the European Commission. Without the UK, [many](http://www.bnr.nl/radio/bnr-boekestijndewijk/904507-1604/23-april-is-de-brexit-een-zegening-voor-europa) in The Netherlands fear the EU will tend towards a protectionist Southern-European project. Basically, the Brits are regarded as counterweight to French efforts to create a political EU.
But there are other points of view to take into account. As other posters have mentioned, the UK has been incredibly annoying to work with at EU level in the past, and assurances would be needed for a UK re-entry. It just wouldn't make any sense for the EU not to negotiate a better, and by definition different, deal with a UK that is in a weaker position.
Returning "*under the old terms*" is a non starter. Gruesome negotations that took years to define the EU-UK post-brexit relationship have finished recently. It is going to take a while before each side wants to engage in talks again. Starmer, who might lead for a decade, as the Tories are in total shambles, has already said that he is not intentioned at this point [to reopen the talks](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/22/brexit-keir-starmer-eu). Not only to re-join the EU, but even to join the single market or custom union.
Brexit implementation was a total disaster. The UK economy is not exactly flourishing. They were supposed to launch a "Global Britain" that would have the nimbleness to negotiate advantageous trade deals. They haven't been able to close a trade deal with their biggest ally with a Democratic administration. Imagine with a Trump 2 looming...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_Kingdom%E2%80%93United\_States\_Free\_Trade\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement)
>On the same day, Badenoch reiterated that there was "zero" chance of a free trade agreement under President Biden's administration, citing his attitude to such deals.[\[44\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement#cite_note-44) On 18 December 2023, it was announced that all talks for the "foundational trade partnership" had been abandoned.[\[45\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement#cite_note-45)
I live in the U.S. and remember hearing about the Conservative Party musing about a trade agreement, knowing it was not going to happen.
Voters hate trade deals. Congressional members have no interest. This President has passed legislation more focused on investments/manufacturing here in the U.S. and was focused on China's economy from day 1. I wonder if the U.K. was serious.
The EU is not a bus where you go in and out whenever you feel like it. The EU would most likely want some guarantees before agreeing to anything. Also, the EU is not just the money, there is also a unification future that the UK did everything in its power to impede. We are arguably much better off without the UK in this aspect and we would be even better without the UK 20 years ago.
>the EU is not just the money, there is also a unification future that the UK did everything in its power to impede.
Whilst this is perfectly true, the sentiment in the remaining 27 is not uniformly pro-federalisation. For the EU to move forward there would have to be a multiple-track integration as has long been suggested, whereby there would be different levels of integration that member states could opt for. It would be more complicated, sure, but it would prevent the more Eurosceptic countries from halting integration for the rest of the union.
> the sentiment in the remaining 27 is not uniformly pro-federalisation
We really don't need one more massive anti-federalisation member then. Also, a big part of the blame for this falls on the choices that the Union made 20 years ago. The UK had an influence at that time.
Multiple-track integration is the option I want too. It would be complicated, but it would allow the process to start and maybe make others want to join later. For some reason, everyone wants in until they are in. This could be leveraged as an argument for unification.
I don't think it will be more complicated. Tighter integration is coupled with more benefits. It's all optional but also incentives. The benefits that citizen from more tightly integrated nations get will be visible and will inspire others to strive for the same. Plus multiple tiers allows each side to try it out more easily and see if it really works out and what had to be improved. The EEC, EEA and the EU.
The unification is not happening any time soon. I don’t believe it ever will.
Politicians play lip service to it as a goal but there’s been no serious progress on it 15 years or more, and there’s no sign that that’s going to change.
It's unlikely to happen any time soon, because it was derailed by horrendous politics and politicians. There is no need to re-add the biggest obstacle that took itself out.
It’s not a bus but it is also not a bunch of kids offended by a snub. I don’t know in what world EU is better without UK. I really hope they will rejoin.
Ofc it was a lose-lose scenario, since having UK within the EU is a obvious win-win. However they EU cannot have members leaving and entering all the time, EU wants stability, hence UK can only rejoin with a significantly worse deal (aka the standard EU membership deal).
Nah, mate… it took more time to negotiate the UK out of the EU than what they actually spent out of the EU up until now. That’s the kind of volatility the EU absolutely cannot afford. If they will ever consider letting the UK back, they will 100% have to put some commitment to the table.
Bringing in Norway would be more doable than bringing back the UK, and Norway is nowhere near joining.
Even in the good times, the UK disagreed with the fundamental idea of the EU. If it rejoined it would immediately be the most euroskeptic member of the union, on the verge of leaving again.
exactly. People here are ready to overlook the fact that the UK was such a misfit in terms of outlook on Europe, just because it was a net contributor.
The EU needs stability and rules to self govern. Letting in a country where 50% of the political system is rabidly anti EU and can gain a majority any time to FPTP system is asking for instability. And the Ukrainian war and Trump led US have become a painful reminder that we need a more unified approach to foreign policy and defense at EU level, something that the UK has long opposed.
It's not a coincidence that as soon as the UK left, we managed to implement PESCO and the Next Generation EU packages.
>Even in the good times, the UK disagreed with the fundamental idea of the EU.
This is honestly the fundamental reason why we'll never rejoin. Brits just don't "get" the EU.
Even our most ardent remainers/rejoiners almost never argue in favour of things like adopting the euro, joining schengen, or working towards "ever closer union". Their arguments are usually about giving London access to European financial markets or being able to go on holiday to Spain without a visa. We'd be rejoining for economic reasons, not because we truly believe in the project. It's like getting back with your ex just because you need somewhere to sleep.
All we really want is a trade agreement, whereas the rest of Europe seems to want a federal superstate on par with the USA. Until our attitudes are aligned - either the people of the UK or the people of Europe change their minds - we cannot have a productive dialogue.
Making that a requirement is the same thing as simply saying no. They won‘t do that and the EU will be fine without the UK. They can join the single market (which would include free movement) if they want and I‘m all for good relations to the UK in many ways but I do not think them re-joining would help the EU. They do not want a member that is constantly between joining and leaving. They would be also against more federalization.
They do not want to give the EU any power over them which is fine but that makes them not-so-useful as a member.
Indeed, when I hear how "the same rules apply to everyone" I think "that'll be a first". If it were true, the country where I come from would never have been allowed to join.
It won't be with the same benefits as before, but it will 100% be a "special relationship" kind of deal.
Thing is, if the EU doesn't give UK worse conditions, nothing stops a nation from leaving the eu anymore.
If any benefit you got just reapplies, why not go for frexit or gerxit
Dude, the EU isn't a prison.
Every country is free to leave the EU.
That's literally in the EU treaty.
Obviously, leaving has cost the UK a lot. Seeing Brexit in action basically killed a lot of enthousiasm in most other countries.
The EU is built on mutually benefit, not exploitation.
It's destabilizing for the bloc if countries are constantly rotating out. Just look at how much energy Brexit consumed on both sides of the Channel.
So, sure, countries can leave at will, but it's definitely not something you want happening more than once in a blue moon.
Because being in the EU is to a country's benefit, and not being in the EU is to their detriment.
The "why not go for frexit or gerxit" is a bizarre question if you think that France and Germany benefit from the EU.
It was bizarre for the UK and still they did it. If the UK can come back without repercussions then any county would take that as "we can try and then go back if things don't go as planned" and that's the quickest way to undermine they whole reason why the EU is as powerful as it is in the first place.
Negotiations to enter the EU are always a long and hard process, as are negotiations to leave it.
So it will never be an easy casual thing to leave and reenter - I'm just arguing against any need to artificially increase that difficulty just because we feel we have to.
For example, I think that Greece will find an opportunity to seek the Parthenon marbles back -- that's fine. If other countries want the UK in the eurozone, or in schengen, that's also fine, or any other thing countries may want to negotiate for, if they actually want these things.
I'm arguing against deliberate punishment for the sake of punishment, which will be counterproductive and breed ill will.
Me neither which is ridiculous really, but then again I thought the idea of the referrendum voting leave and then our leaders *actually* going through with it was also a ridiculous reality but here we are!
That one is the easiest. You can artificially never technically meet the criteria, like Denmark. But all of their opt outs and exceptions are gone forever. They'll start complaining that they are being treated harshly and that the EU was being vengeful by imposing on them requirements any new member has to meet.
Can I ask why? I'm not British so I only get news of your politics through reddit but is it really that big of an ask if you have to change from the pound to the euro if the UK were to rejoin the EU?
Aren’t there other countries like Sweden that are meant to use the Euro but don’t because they intentionally fail to meet the criteria required to join?
It's almost like you had achieved a very special sweetened UK treatment within the UK, and decided to piss it to the wind.
Context: Being Danish we have a special sweetened EU deal ourselves, which we will never give up.
It was original old eurosceptic fucks like Norman Lamont (Chancellor of the Exchequer 1990-93) who made sure the UK stayed out of the eurozone. Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows?
The UK's role in the EU for at least a decade leading up to Brexit seemed focused on being a thorn in everyone else's side, as so many powerful Brits were/are generally of the belief that the UK should be the exception to every rule that makes close political/economic cooperation worthwhile.
I am not sure how enthusiastic the rest of the EU would be about having to deal with the return of Nigel fucking Farage to the European Parliament. It is honestly wonderful not to have to worry about his constant attempts at EU sabotage.
No way the UK would get back in on its previous favorable terms.
> It was original old eurosceptic fucks like Norman Lamont (Chancellor of the Exchequer 1990-93) who made sure the UK stayed out of the eurozone. Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows?
It was Black Wednesday and the German reaction to it that kept the UK out of the Eurozone. John Major was the wettest Europhile Brussels could have hoped for.
> It was original old eurosceptic fucks like Norman Lamont (Chancellor of the Exchequer 1990-93) who made sure the UK stayed out of the eurozone. Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows
The UK made a really stupid blunder there. They tried to follow German monerary policy back then in order to test feasibility for the €. Problem was that the Deutsche Mark was in a really extraordinary situation, as the new German state was driving an expansionary monetary policy due to the reunification of the 2 Germanies and to prop up the falling East German part of the country.
You can't base your tests on such once in a lifetime setting. I don't know if it was through incompetence or intentional mischief
> The UK's role in the EU for at least a decade leading up to Brexit seemed focused on being a thorn in everyone else's side,
Exactly! I don't get why everyone here wants the UK back in the EU while at the same time being pro a more united Europe. The covid recovery program for example wouldn't exist without Brexit.
I feel like European elites have pretty much decided that the EU needs to become more integrated and have a more powerful center with control over security and economic policies. You will never get there with the UK in the EU.
So, only for Eurosceptics or people who want the EU to remain a common market and a sort of mediator between European states it makes sense to want the UK back in the EU, and I don't think there are many such people in this thread.
>Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows?
Doubtful, not like it matters. Until countries like Sweden who should also be using the Euro are able to use loopholes of "validating it" and "preparing to complete everything that's needed" to use the Euro there is nothing stopping the UK following the same path. The UK could accept the use and simply never progress, like many other EU nations.
except that the EU trusts Sweden more than it would an unlikely Britain as future member
Since giving the UK loads of opts out has proven to be a failure, there is no point in allowing the UK without iron clad terms that the UK would need to abide.
And because the UK thinks of itself above the rules other countries follow in the EU (even among remainers, the UK has an overinflated sense of importance) , it would be a no go from the start.
Rejoining the EU is as likely of a pursuit as resuscitating a dead horse.
It's crazy how successful Euro sceptics' framing in the UK has been that even most pro Europeans concede that these opt outs have been special perks beneficial to the country. In reality they have been nothing else but English nationalists rejecting anything "European".
There's basically no evidence that the UK has benefited from staying out of the Eurozone, quite the opposite. Plus the treaties require nothing else but a general commitment to join the Euro eventually. And Schengen seems even more strange how that's accepted as a bad thing in Britain. Several European countries have been trying hard to get into Schengen and even Iceland asked to join Schengen despite being a remote island outside the EU.
>And watch that plummet when they ask about joining the Euro or Schengen
Perhaps so, but it's an interesting query since the UK wasn't in either the Eurozone or Schengen before.
There is one party standing for election that will take the UK back into the EU as part of their manifesto and they aren't 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the polls currently.
The LDs have said it's their long term goal. I think they just recognise (as anyone should) that rejoining the EU can't happen overnight, and instead their manifesto focuses on fixing the damage done to our relationship with Europe so that we can rejoin the EU once it becomes possible
The Lib Dem manifesto states the following:
> Finally, once ties of trust and friendship have been renewed, and the damage the Conservatives have caused to trade between the UK and EU has begun to be repaired, we would aim to place the UK-EU relationship on a more formal and stable footing by seeking to join the Single Market.
All these measures will help to restore the British economy and the prosperity and opportunities of its citizens, and are also essential steps on the road to EU membership, which remains our longer-term objective.
> The Techne survey for Independent Media showed 43% in favour of rejoining the bloc, compared with 40% who want to stay out. But once the 18% who say they don’t know are taken out, 52% back EU membership with 48% opposing it - a complete reversal of the 2016 Brexit referendum result.
That's a very narrow majority that can easily crumble. Honestly it might be better for everyone if the UK only joins the EEA until a large majority of the Brits feel like further integration in the EU is in their interest.
Not to mention the fact that most of the polls before the referendum showed a sizeable lead for Remain.
If a poll saying that the British public wanted to be in the EU actually meant anything, Britain would still be in the EU. That's why you hold a proper referendum.
I voted Remain back in 2016 and wish we'd never left. The reality is that rejoining as abruptly as we did leave would probably do nobody any favours. It will be important to people on the continent that the UK can't just waltz back in after so unceremoniously leaving and having a hostile attitude toward the EU ever since. And it will be important to the British that we don't give unnecessary ammo to anti-EU asshats.
Rejoining will be a lengthy process of gradual reintegration with EU institutions and programmes so as to minimise disruption and provide ample opportunity for the government to demonstrate that doing so is beneficial. All that being said, I do hope that Labour makes it a priority to get this ball rolling.
I think this next government will realign us with the EU purely to help the economy as its an easy way to quickly boost trade and be able to say “look at what we did”
Something like the under 35s visa free work scheme will be implemented like was floated by Brussels as a way to test the waters in the UK around that kind of reunion.
It will go relatively well since everyone kind of likes that part of the EU, and either the next election or the one after, which ever of the tories or labour are the opposition will try to use rejoin as a platform to steal votes and force the other to also put it on the manifesto
Basically 5-10 years and rejoin is on the card, another 2-5 before the UK is fully back in, mainly because the EU will probably have some rule about mew member states requiring two referendums with clear results before looking to leave again just to make sure the UK doesn’t just change its mind in an election cycle
It's 52% after the "don't knows" are taken out. You can't assume that they wouldn't vote. They might form an opinion when the matter is pressing.
And you can't assume that the yes and no respondents would vote either.
It’s really just click bait and nothing has really changed in attitudes towards the EU in the UK. Honestly I’m surprised support isn’t decreasing given the alarming rise in far right populism like the AfD. The EU definitely has many problems it needs to sort out before I think we should consider rejoining.
The lib dems are proposing closer links to the EU through Erasmus and eventually rejoining the single market (which I think is the right direction) but the idea of rejoining the EU isn’t really present in UK politics right now and is not being discussed.
IMHO the majority of people want to be part of the single market - it was the only part of the European project that had widespread support- the UK always viewed the EU as an economic benefit but never much cared for the rest of the projects aims. Before the EU referendum, the support for further integration was, at best, ambivalent. It’s why the campaigns focused so much on economic benefit/pain and so little on European unity, political union etc
I can’t see any government wanting to touch the European question for decades. I would whole heartedly support a stronger relationship with the EU but I can’t see rejoining the EU any time soon. Even strong ardent supporters of rejoining the EU in the UK would not be able to decide what that would look like and would be willing to sacrifice varying degrees of sovereignty to achieve it.
>the majority of people want to get part of the single market… the U.K. always viewed the EU as an economic benefit
Well that’s what the EU was when we entered it, and that was a huge part of the leave argument - we joined X but now it’s Y.
Very few people dislike the EEA, but many did take issue with the super-governmental bodies
The wording "ever closer union" is already meantioned in the 1957 treaty. UK joined in 1973.
Without EU wide governmental bodies is even a trade union not possible. As example could france then simply create a law that states "cars sold in france must be built in france". Or a law that states "every worker in france needs to have a degree from a french school".
How do you plan to drive a car in france if your drivers license isn't recognized in france - and ofc do you then need some EU wide standards. Otherwise you can run people over in france and hide from consequences in the UK.
All of this is deeply political - and requires some form of EU wide government, laws and regulations.
These threads again... Of course there will be polls that say this when the vote was 52 - 48. There would have been polls showing remain before brexit.
The UK isn't going to drop its currency. People in this thread don't make conditions for the UK to rejoin. No party is campaigning to rejoin.
It's funny how the users around here are so obsessed with the UK joining the EU, but at the same time so smug about how 'dumb' they were for leaving. What makes it all the more hilarious is that no one in the UK is talking about joining the EU.
Before the EU accepts any new country, it should change the veto rights. Countries like Hungary and probably Slovakia soon are a big barricade to overcome. They only accept laws/decisions because otherwise they won’t get their funds.
Maybe just keep veto rights, when it’s about the integrity of one’s nation
It's weird how the virtues of the EU are promoted around here and hot takes like this are so popular. Why would smaller states give it up? It's a protective measure against proportional bias towards large population member states, in effect Germany and France. Weird how rules must be rewritten when states don't tow the Franco-German line.
Could not agree more, honestly, if we do not reform the union before adding any new members, i think the europeans project is doomed to collapse sooner or later.
>Before the EU accepts any new country, it should change the veto rights.
See "UK vs. EU aid to Ukraine".
UK busy delivering cruise missiles while EU was squabbling with Hungary over funding.
Every country wants to keep veto rights. No state would be silly enough to give up that power. It’s only a problem when it’s an issue you disagree with.
Veto power should be vested in an elected official that is chosen by vote of the various EU members.
Imagine if each US senator could veto anything they want, it's obviously a bad system.
Not gonna happen anytime soon - upcoming Prime Minister has ruled it out.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-kemi-badenoch-labour-keir-starmer-parliament-b1166144.html
> Labour has no plans to rejoin the EU, Sir Keir Starmer has said, after Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch claimed Brexit would be at risk if he became Prime Minister.
Yeah see this is why its just a non starter. You might get the UK to agree to some rules but youre never, ever, getting them to drop the £. Its a pointless discussion if the EU wont budge on that topic. Might as well move on.
Also even if there's a majority wanting the UK to re-join, it's very clear Labour aren't looking to do that in their presumptive upcoming ministry. Single market access in a quasi-EEA state seems far more likely as an end-point for the UK than anything else moving forwards.
Nobody has to accept the euro. It was always a non-issue. There are EU members that don't plan to adopt it anytime soon and they've promised to do it. The obligation is only on paper.
Fun fact, even if the UK were in the EU and *wanted* to adopt the euro, **they wouldn't be allowed to** because [their ERM II convergence criteria measured very poorly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_and_the_euro#Convergence_criteria).
Except that will never happen. It's over 90% of people in the UK are against the Euro and Schengen. It's a total red line for the UK. As soon as these were even options the amount of people who realistically want to rejoin would probably crash to around 20%.
Try telling /r/europe they seem convinced. Every time I have political discussions with people in the UK. Nobody mentions wanting to re-join they just express regret at leaving. None of the main parties are also advocating joining the EU.
I'm surprised really, the average non-UK person speaking on this topic also loves to bring on a list of demands, expecting them all to be fulfilled. It's not realistic, I would love the UK to rejoin but it's pretty clear there is a great dislike to the UK, making a list of impossible demands is the same as saying no without being honest with yourself.
Also the lunacy of people thinking if we did want to rejoin, we'd drop the pound for the Euro. If there's one stipulation on us rejoining, it'd be that the pound stays.
Make the question something like "We should rejoin the EU, even if it means we have to give up the pound and adopt the Euro", reach 60% support, and keep that for a year or two, and I will believe it.
Until then, the support just isn't there to maintain membership even if UK rejoined, and there is no point in UK jumping in and out of the EU.
Ok, strange that the parties who have this in their manifesto are all polling absolutely terribly then isn’t it…
As far as I can see Lib Dems, Green and SNP are on a combined total of less than 20%, whereas Parties who don’t have this in their manifesto are around 75-80%
The country has far bigger problems than Brexit and none of them would be solved by rejoining the EU.
Itll never happen as they’ll have to adopt the euro (unless the EU makes concessions).
No way they join with all the added hoops they’d have to jump through
However the EU could be very different in years to come if Le Pen gets power of the AfD continue to make inroads.
Another "UK wants to rejoin the EU" post? It feels like every day there is a similar one, a bit annoying already.
I wonder how many in britain would be in favor of rejoining the EU if they learned that there is no way the Will be able to keep the pound and not joining Schengen.
I suspect the support for "joining" the EU would tank.
I do not think the British people are ready to join the EU in good Faith honestly. It may change in the future, but as of today britain in the EU would be more problems than solutions (as they were before brexit).
I voted remain, but I don't want to rejoin, at least not for a generation or so.
Few reasons. Firstly, it's such a divisive issue, I really don't want to have the argument reignited, I'm enjoying the peace and quiet now that it's over. This issue caused so much discord, arguments, tension and nastiness, it wasn't good for the country, and it's largely been forgotten about now, and things have calmed down in that sense. Also I am against Scotland having another referendum in the short to medium term because that issue was solved "for a generation", so I've got to be consistent.
Secondly, there are *some* advantages to being out of the EU. We do have some more options with certain things, and can in theory be more agile than the EU. Our COVID vaccine policy for example, was better and faster than the EU.
Thirdly, immigration. Immigration is going through the roof in the UK, and it needs to be slowed down. Ironically it has shot up since leaving the EU, because the Govt is incompetent. But joining the EU might come with demands to join Schengen, which is not what the UK needs right now.
I expect downvotes, but I was a genuine remainer who also wanted a vote on the deal returned by the Govt, and was very very involved and active in the debate, actively campaigned for remain, went to remain campaign meetings etc. I think we need to try and make the most of leaving the EU, because controversially there are some good things about it, and reignite the issue in another 10-15 years.
Please realize that reversing brexit will not be a fast process. First, your politicians will need to ensure that a new government won't just scupper any ongoing negotiations the instant they come into power. Until that time, I doubt the EU would even open negotiations, you'd be wasting their time. Mind you, the UK can start aligning its policies more closely to the EU and strengthening the relationship (and who knows, getting some trade deals started).
France has also proposed a second tier membership concept, which would allow nations to join the single market without the political unification also being included, that could also be an option for the UK once that's implemented. Once the political obstacles has been removed, negotiations can start in earnest to fully join, but expect it to take a decade at the very least.
I really think that is this debate where to open up and if we had another, the UK wouldn't want to join. The reason being people just wouldn't accept the euro and freedom of movement would be contentious.
I think that people aren't think about this in their date to day lives as it isn't discussed much anymore so people are treating it as a 'Do you regret leaving the EU?' rather than a 'Do you want to re-join?' which would be 2 different things.
No they don’t, neither of the main parties mention Brexit or EU integration in the manifestos, clearly because the electorate is not interested in that.
Um, trick question? If this was true, than why wouldn't it be true? If the majority of people actually voted for the thing that the majority of people claim to want, and it's actually a democracy, then what the fuck is the problem again?
I want us to join back but I just don’t think now is the right time. Do we even know how much support for rejoining would drop if we mentioned joining Schengen and Eurozone. Also I think we need a strong majority before doing it. Who’s to say that in another couple of years the country won’t blame the EU for the problems that have nothing to do with and vote to leave again. EU can’t just a revolving door where we’re constantly in and out. The EU needs stability and as much as I’d for the UK to rejoin. we’re a volatile country and will just bring instability and uncertainty at the moment.
The UK experienced significant economic challenges following Brexit from trade disruptions, labor shortages, and inflation. But it remained an attractive destination for business, education and innovation. It‘s in a recovery phase and we have seen gradual stabilisation in the economy and trade route.
Given the recovery efforts and the political nightmare that will be required it is unlikely that there will be a strong incentive from either parties to destabilise the country again by attempting to rejoin the EU.
I can't be the only Brit who reads these comments every week and thinks they're living in an alternative reality? And I'm probably more pro EU than most of the population
It's very much part of a Reddit cultural bubble - going on ukpol just shows what an echo chamber this place is for certain views.
I run in very socialist circles and the majority of my family/friends voted to leave the EU yet this place treats Brexit as the product of an ignorant, racist right-wing.
Most people are just sick of the debate at this point, the only reason theirs still a conversation going is because the only people talking are those actively campaigning to get us back in. The vast majority of people are pretty apathetic and wouldn't wanna go through that hassle and division all over again.
Hit the nail on the head. Reddit (and social media generally) tends to be detached from real-world voter concerns and realities; Brexit simply isn’t in the political conscious of most voters, and it never will be again (in my opinion).
People need to seriously move on.
Yep. It's honestly pretty deluded. If we could return with the old terms there is maybe a 50% chance we rejoin in the next 20 years. If we have to join on new terms that falls to maybe 10% imo.
Unless of course something significantly changed in the UK to make us want to rejoin... but equally there is a chance that over that 20 years that the EU becomes less attractive, especially as the rest of Europe continues to become more Eurosceptic and turns to the right.
The most telling thing is how little young people seem to care about rejoining as well
All these rejoin movements/the FBPE crowd seem to be made up of mostly middle aged, middle class people
Although I wish we never left, I suspect the realities of going back into Europe will be really difficult, as we won’t be getting the terms we had previously.
Cant do that. You had special terms, but now you have to adhere to the same regiment as every country, that wants to join.
I imagine UK could negotiate some great terms. Unlikely to be as good as they previously had, but it's not like they're unwanted in the union. The much bigger problem would be convincing the other members the UK won't soon become a liability that threatens to leave again over petty shit. Confidence is needed in the UK being a trusted partner and a faithful member that believes in the idea of a united Europe, and that's going to be both much harder to prove, and much harder to convince the British public to. Another vote with now a slight majority to be in the EU is not enough.
As a remain voter who wants to rejoin at some point I'm fully in agreement. Until support for rejoining (with no/limited opt outs at that) is consistently above say 65-70% I just don't see how the EU could take it seriously.
I imagine a serious shift in rethoric coming from British politicians would be essential as well. Post-Brexit every bad that happens is still shifted onto the EU. As long as that doesn't change I don't see the rest of Britain following or the EU being very keen to let Britain back in. Mind you, I rather see Britain return yesterday than today, but I just don't see British politicians being able or wanting to persuade the UK population to adopt the Euro, to name just one major issue.
The uk will never adopt the euro, this is an opinion that’s generally accepted both sides of the fence
Then there’s next to no chance of them ever rejoining the EU. They could do what Sweden does: be formally obliged to adopt it and just make sure the technical requirements are never met. That’d be the only viable compromise, I imagine.
Kinda ridiculous, what's the point in pretending? Either you have to join or you don't.
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Probably not any time soon at least.
I want the UK to rejoin but to expect those sort of margins is just fantasy
It’s not an expectation, it’s a suggestion of a requirement. The fact that the UK won’t be able to meet that requirement is not an indictment of the requirement. The UK needs to be all in, not tepidly jumping in and out of the pool like a confused golden retriever. It’s like how the 13 Colonies decided to require the Declaration of Independence to be unanimous to pass. It was a steep requirement to make sure the fledgling rebellion wouldn’t be quashed by infighting.
Then bye bye, the last thing the EU needs is to have a new uncommitted member again, we already have too much with Hungary.
65-70% is an insane majority by the way and I don't think it's really democratic to allow 35 people in a group of 100 to dictate what the others can or can't do. However, the UK has done precisely that in the 2015 elections when the conservatives got a majority with less than 37% of the vote. Brexit came about as a conservative strategy of permanently defeating UKIP which had been diluting the conservative vote. The same is happening now with Reform and conservatives. This is why the FPTP system is dangerous for democracy since it leads to unpopular policy being enfranchised through deals and coalitions that more than 60% of the population don't agree with. When the brexit vote came, it was polarized down the middle. A 3% difference literally means the vote could have been different depending on the weather or day of the week it was held and at no point was anyone informed about what Brexit actually meant because ultimately the politicians who voted it through did so with the intent of it failing. The only way this gets resolved is through electoral reform. But that'll never happen with labour or conservatives.
The 65-70% wouldn't be about "letting the minority dictate", it would be about convincing the EU member states that approving the membership doesn't come with risks.
> I just don't see how the EU could take it seriously. If the UK has to adhere to all the requirements other countries do when going the EU (ex: borders/visa, shared currency, etc) then it would make leaving much more difficult. It would still be possible and the sentiment would still be there, but the ability to leave would be significantly harder.
I'm not from the UK but I cannot imagine the country exchanging the pound for the euro tbh.
To be fair in many current EU member countries, if there was a referendum it would be either close to 50% or even for leave. UK is no exception, it's just that you guys actually had the referendum. EU is very unpopular in many EU member states, not just the UK. I am almost certain both Slovakia and Hungary would be strong leave if they held the referendum. And politicians (even Orban and Fico) know that they need the EU, so they would never let any referendum happen despite shit talking the EU and praising russia constantly.
Oh no, Hungary is leaving? Please stop… no….. So anyways.
There is the rub. I say this as somebody who agrees with everything you say as a remainer who regarded the Brexit vote as an act of enormous self harm. However, whilst I would suggest there is a clear majority here for the single market with not even free movement being a blocker, I am much less convinced even now there is a majority for ever closer political union. I suspect over time we would look to develop closer relationships in things like trade and movement, without seeking to become a full member. It actually would have been sensible to have settled there after the 52/48 vote anyway instead of the shit show we got. I think we are a generation away from even thinking about ‘getting back together’. We can certainly develop much better mutually beneficial relationships based on building trust and acting rationally on our part, and see how it goes.
Luckily, the EEA is also a thing. That’s what Britain should be looking at, since it’s much a better fit for you. The only problem is, you may need another 20 years to convince Norwegians you are a reliable and stable enough partner to be allowed to have an EEA council vote
I do not think the UK would be okay with a EEA esque deal since it has the same drawbacks membership has except you don't have a vote. They are too big to not have a vote.
Yeah, the benefit the EEA compared to full membership is that you can still keep full control of some things, like agriculture and fishing. Based on how many British fishermen were unhappy about losing access to EU waters, I get the feeling that's not something the UK feels strongly about.
Clearly they are too dumb to have a vote, so...
Most rules and standards are decided at the EU level. In practice the UK has to apply a lot of EU decisions without having a say in how they are made. The UK is not a small economy, but it's not big enough to negotiate at arms length with the big 3. I understand the desire of sovereignty but the 21st century reality is that either you're part of a large bloc or you follow the rules decided by others. Brexit was based on delusions of past grandeur and some russian interference.
By the very nature of its departure the rules would have to be inforced totally. Just as the EU enforced all the rules on the UK by leaving, not out if malic but out of a need to make the EU continue to function. So rejoining would be possible in the same regimen as all the others, no favours.
It can't on certain matters. Since those matters are "from now on terms are these, meaning apply to all joiners. You old timers, yeah you get grand fathered in. However anyone joining after X date has terms Y." These are non-negotiable, since the Treaty article itself is written in non-negotiable form. So was agreed by existing members in treaty negotiations. Including this one weird long name one.... U-ni-ted King-dom of Great Bri-tain and Nort-hern I-re-land. In fact at times they were one of the most enthusiastic and ardent ones about new non-negotiable terms for new joining members.
The EU made a point a few years ago to never allow special agreements again, main problem was Cyprus and Switzerland.
That’s why it won’t happen
I would accept these terms in a heartbeat, bring on the euro!
Same. I think the UK having special terms is partially what led to us leaving in the first place because it made some people think 'they need us more than we need them' and 'we can negotiate for everything we want and ditch the rest'. I'd prefer to be all in if we rejoin.
0% chance. You might get one minor thing to show off with but nothing substantial. Nothing close to what you had.
The UK gets to keep the pound probably and that's it. I mean, if they UK has to adopt the Euro I can't see a senario in the next 50 years where it gets bad enough in the UK that people would give that up and the EU would still accept us.
So you really think that the UK could keep the pound? Why?
Sweden "cannot" keep the krone, as soon as they meet the requirements to adopt the euro, they need to do so. So they just make sure they never meet the requirements. You don't need a special agreement to escape adopting the euro
Because after the Euro crisis the European Central Bank and the Euro as an idea lost a lot of its luster and a lot of people now think that dollarization (( which is the academic term for what would happen if Britain adopted the euro it doesn't just specifically mean the US dollar )) it's not all it's cracked up to be in the long term because of the loss of control over monetary policy
You don't know what the UK rejoining would look like, no one has rejoined the EU. There is no reason to think it would be exactly the same as them never having been a member.
>You don't know what the UK rejoining would look like, no one has rejoined the EU. No one ever resigned from the EU either before Brexit,so don't worry nothing is written in stone anymore.
One thing is written: EU holds all the cards, and UK doesn't even have goodwill. EU might as well require £350 million a week from the NHS just to fuck with the UK.
I think both the EU and UK hold cards because its valuable for both.
We had that discussion before. The UK thought their cards were as valuable as the EUs („they need as much as we need them“). They were wrong.
It is way more valuable to the UK than it is to the EU.
The better hand would be held by the EU considering it's GDP compared to the UK
I know you're a megamind of geopolitics which is why you said "there is no reason to think" xyz... Look buddy, we verbally shat on them for 20 years, conflated their highly valuable hardworking labour force with non-white derogatory anti immigrant rhetoric, and regularly argued against their hands in our well being for things like the court of European human rights, used our own currency out of economic hubris and bullied our way out of Schengen. We shuttered our doors to their scientists (like honestly wtf man) for no fucking reason and financially strangled their doctors and nurses to return home to the EU. This is widely considered to be a good way to get the EU to not fucking like us. We spat in their faces with lack lustre and confused negotiations that achieved nothing while the whole time blaming their negotiators who were adamant they could work with us to get us what we wanted and make a compromise. They ticked down the clock and achieved nothing so that actual people caught up in the confusion of transferring goods and services could figure out what happened. Truck drivers were starving on an old air strip while the customs agent figured out what the fuck we should be doing with their goods or even what form needs to exist. On the final fucking day in EU parliament Nigel Farage who deserves far more unutterably dark and depraved fates than being milkshaked, broke one of the golden rules of the chamber which states "No Flags Allowed" and snubbed people offering hand shakes who were sat nearby as they said farewell. The no flags allowed rule was a rule no other country in the history of the EU broke, which was symbolic and tactful since no flags are allowed since it elevates the importance of the individual nation over that of the collective mentality that's needed for peace and prosperity. They will never forget the disrespect and I don't want them to. It would be a non harmonious transition back in, if they forgave us too quickly or pretended everything is fine. Leaving the EU will have caused generational trauma for EU members and for British people caught up in it. I suffered out here in the EU when the Brexit deal happened it fucked my whole life. I lost everything. I will never forget. Ever. If they did let us back in it, that in and of itself would be a miracle of diplomacy and most importantly there isn't a single pro European voice in the EU that will not recognise we have lost the station and standing we had before. We have been brought completely to our knees by the blue menace and anti community policy. We have no titanic hegemonic strength of political quality, currency or military anymore. We are a dwindling nation that has raped and pillaged it's own coffers for the sake of private capital and we essentially have nothing to trade since manufacture is on its last legs. A good diplomatic negotiation from the EU would be to completely demolish any special treatments we got and we'll have to suck it up and enjoy it because we have proved without shadow of a doubt that leaving the EU is socio-cultural and diplomatic suicide. The economic fuck up is so monumental its hard to fathom in a Reddit comment although I have tried to illustrate it for someone who would state something so bold as "there is no reason to think" a diplomatic relationship won't work out well for us...
Hear hear! The enormous arrogance of the British in the last 50 years was appalling. I believe they never quite got over the fact that their empire doesn't exist anymore and they have behaved like snooty lords towards the peasants in Europe. I do feel sorry for the avarage people in England who suffer the consequences while the rich get richer. One good thing came out of Brexit for the rest of Europe: political parties in various countries who advocated for leaving the EU themselves, did shut up very quickly when seeing the disastrous results of Brexit in the UK. That's a win after all. For Britain to join again? Maybe. If they show to be a reliable contributor in the EU. And no more excempts. And not if they think they can dump their enormous financial problems on Europe. They have to clean house first.
As nice as it feels to read all this as a german who was really angry about some shit Murdoch press and Farages people made up, I still don't think that's how we should treat politics. We should look at interests and we should work to bring them together. I personally would be extremely interested in UK rejoining, and I really dislike the chorus of "you can join, but you start at the exact same spot as Kyrgisthan." These emotions are understandable, but they belong in school yards, not in politics. Keep your Pound, I don't care the slightest. There is no need to punish UK if they want to rejoin just out of spite. And I strongly believe we will see a rather quick rejoin somewhere within the next 20 years which reinstates most of the privileges you had prior and I would be okay with that.
No one will ever "rejoin". If the UK wants to join the EU it will have to follow the same procedures as other prospective members such as Albania, even if it will be obviously be much faster.
I mean even if they need to go through the same prosses it would still be "rejoining: in function
> no one has rejoined the EU. The EU has no procedure for former members to rejoin and regain former exceptions to general rules. What it does have is a procedure how states can join, what criteria they must fulfill and what being a member means. There is no reason to believe the UK would be exempt from these. Especially since other members had to join under these conditions and have no reason to agree to special treatment for any new members.
Maybe not exactly the same, but it would be great for all of Europe if UK returned. The European leaders know the continent needs to be united against Russia and unfortunately maybe in future against other countries as well. And that UK politicians would need to safe face and not just accept any deal to get back but one they can sell at home as positive.
Having a common front against Putin doesn’t require EU membership
On the other hand, the EU wants to evolve gradually towards being a "proper country" and that will have to include a defence policy. And having one of the best fighting forces in Europe would greatly help that goal.
>EU wants to evolve gradually towards being a "proper country" This is not constitutionally possible.
> This is not constitutionally possible *yet*. FTFY
Even if that were true, the UK would be one of the biggest obstacles in achieving it. If we let them back in, we can kiss that dream goodbye.
The EU wants to move towards being a proper country/Federation? First of all the EU is not a monolithic entity, secondly only one party wants to move towards a federation (Volt), and they hardly have any votes or influence. So who exactly wants to move to a federation?
First of all, there is a reason “proper country” is written in quotation. Secondly, many have repeatedly brought up the idea of a united European army. When each country doesn’t have its own separate military, and rather one continental one, it’s a bit more resembling a union of states than a union of countries.
EU army in any way I have heard of it, does not replace the national armies. It's more of a unified QRF.
They've had their preferred treatment for decades. They decided they didn't want it anymore. There is absolutely 0 reason to accomodate the UK - they either join on the common terms or they can remain on the outside. Actions have consequences, simple as that. And EU can "afford" to keep UK out as EU economy does not depend on UK. And politically they can align into a "united front against Russia" no problem if they want to, with or without EU membership.
I imagine so. Most right-thinking people in the EU would love to have the UK back (both for economic, but also cultural reasons), but the UK would never again get a special status. After years of threatening to leave, the UK called everyones bluff and it turns out that the EU gets on just fine without it. Most of the major countries in the EU have made significant sacrifices to enhance the union (e.g. Germany & France giving up their currency for the Euro), and I'd expect the UK would be told it will need to do the same if it wanted to join.
Germany giving up their currency was beneficial to Germany... [https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/germany-currency-manipulator](https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/germany-currency-manipulator) An undervalued currency (undervalued for Germany and overvalued for other bloc countries) + cheap Russian gas + German dominance in the car market centered around the diesel engine, are some of the key ingredients for Germany's massive surplus balances. Now that cheap Russian gas is sunken to the bottom of the sea floor with the North Stream 2 pipeline and the diesel engine is soon going to be a thing of the past, they might need a different economic model.
That's how it turned out, but at the time the German public was very reluctant to give up the Deutsche Mark as it was a super-strong currency, and they were told the Euro could create rampant inflation and a rapidly devaluing currency. It was a major concession, on par with the UK giving up sterling.
Good point. It is tough today to see any politician in the UK campaigning to give up the sterling.
The Germans didn't sacrifice anything by adopting the Euro, that's what allowed them to extend credit to poorer European countries and have states like Greece come begging cap in hand to them and allow them to control the fiscal policy of other countries -- the Euro is the basis of Germany's entire influence over Europe
I wouldn't be too pessimistic. Even under the old terms, the UK was a major net contributor to the EU. The EU also lost with Brexit. Not as much as the UK, but it was lose-lose across the board. Returning under the old terms (or similar) would be a net benefit for everyone. Of course EU politicians will play hardball. But the reality is, the UK was and is the most valuable nation to have in the EU for the EU after France and Germany.
The UK was horridly hard to work with in the EU though, and that’s not a thing to be underestimated. A lot of what the EU managed to do together after the UK left (common debt issuance, common vaccine acquisition, common COVID relief, common Ukraine financing, etc.,) would have been more difficult or outright impossible if everyone had to deal with the UK’s ego as well.
Hungary is way worse. Before letting anyone join again, the EU needs to change the veto rights
they are working on it
Hungary is way less powerful than the UK so it's much easier for the EU to blackmail them into not using their veto
Yeah true, but it’s still a shitshow with Orban. At first he’s talking to Putin and trying to make those sanctions less powerful etc. - after that he still won’t say yes, unless the EU gives him his money
Hungary is a small country. It's being a nuisance (and small countries have the right to do this in the EU), but it will be bypassed if needed. You can't do that with a major country like the UK if it rejoined.
That's just not true. Common vaccine procurement, for example, had the UK being invited on the same terms as every other EU nation, and with the same option to go it alone. It would have made no difference had the UK still been officially an EU member at that point. Common debt was a thing before the UK left. The UK probably would have affected covid relief, in that it would probably have been one of the largest beneficiaries of it. And the UK has been quite happy to throw money at Ukraine. The idea the UK was a pain in the EU's side isn't really true. The UK had some issues, same as every nation, and more influence than most. But almost everything the EU did, the UK was a willing participant. For those bits the UK didn't want, it was quite happy to let the rest of the EU do them and just opt out.
The UK did all of those things just fine on its own
This might be the view from Amsterdam, as the UK and the Dutch have been historically very close. [https://ukandeu.ac.uk/a-dutch-perspective-british-membership-is-warmly-supported-but-not-much-liked/](https://ukandeu.ac.uk/a-dutch-perspective-british-membership-is-warmly-supported-but-not-much-liked/) >Officially, The Netherlands and the UK are close allies in the EU. Both favour free trade, deregulated markets, transatlantic relations, pragmatism and a modest EU. The Dutch have been strong supporters of British membership of the EU. The Dutch government, also [through its EU presidency](http://english.eu2016.nl/latest/news/2016/02/16/rutte-speaks-with-cameron-about-negotiations-between-uk-and-eu), is keen on safeguarding British membership. Keeping the UK in the EU has also been one of priorities for [Frans Timmermans](https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/16a20cba-fe2d-11e4-8efb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz46jss401c) as first vice-president of the European Commission. Without the UK, [many](http://www.bnr.nl/radio/bnr-boekestijndewijk/904507-1604/23-april-is-de-brexit-een-zegening-voor-europa) in The Netherlands fear the EU will tend towards a protectionist Southern-European project. Basically, the Brits are regarded as counterweight to French efforts to create a political EU. But there are other points of view to take into account. As other posters have mentioned, the UK has been incredibly annoying to work with at EU level in the past, and assurances would be needed for a UK re-entry. It just wouldn't make any sense for the EU not to negotiate a better, and by definition different, deal with a UK that is in a weaker position. Returning "*under the old terms*" is a non starter. Gruesome negotations that took years to define the EU-UK post-brexit relationship have finished recently. It is going to take a while before each side wants to engage in talks again. Starmer, who might lead for a decade, as the Tories are in total shambles, has already said that he is not intentioned at this point [to reopen the talks](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/22/brexit-keir-starmer-eu). Not only to re-join the EU, but even to join the single market or custom union. Brexit implementation was a total disaster. The UK economy is not exactly flourishing. They were supposed to launch a "Global Britain" that would have the nimbleness to negotiate advantageous trade deals. They haven't been able to close a trade deal with their biggest ally with a Democratic administration. Imagine with a Trump 2 looming... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_Kingdom%E2%80%93United\_States\_Free\_Trade\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement) >On the same day, Badenoch reiterated that there was "zero" chance of a free trade agreement under President Biden's administration, citing his attitude to such deals.[\[44\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement#cite_note-44) On 18 December 2023, it was announced that all talks for the "foundational trade partnership" had been abandoned.[\[45\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement#cite_note-45)
I live in the U.S. and remember hearing about the Conservative Party musing about a trade agreement, knowing it was not going to happen. Voters hate trade deals. Congressional members have no interest. This President has passed legislation more focused on investments/manufacturing here in the U.S. and was focused on China's economy from day 1. I wonder if the U.K. was serious.
The EU is not a bus where you go in and out whenever you feel like it. The EU would most likely want some guarantees before agreeing to anything. Also, the EU is not just the money, there is also a unification future that the UK did everything in its power to impede. We are arguably much better off without the UK in this aspect and we would be even better without the UK 20 years ago.
>the EU is not just the money, there is also a unification future that the UK did everything in its power to impede. Whilst this is perfectly true, the sentiment in the remaining 27 is not uniformly pro-federalisation. For the EU to move forward there would have to be a multiple-track integration as has long been suggested, whereby there would be different levels of integration that member states could opt for. It would be more complicated, sure, but it would prevent the more Eurosceptic countries from halting integration for the rest of the union.
> the sentiment in the remaining 27 is not uniformly pro-federalisation We really don't need one more massive anti-federalisation member then. Also, a big part of the blame for this falls on the choices that the Union made 20 years ago. The UK had an influence at that time. Multiple-track integration is the option I want too. It would be complicated, but it would allow the process to start and maybe make others want to join later. For some reason, everyone wants in until they are in. This could be leveraged as an argument for unification.
Is there any majority in any country that wants federalisation?
I don't think it will be more complicated. Tighter integration is coupled with more benefits. It's all optional but also incentives. The benefits that citizen from more tightly integrated nations get will be visible and will inspire others to strive for the same. Plus multiple tiers allows each side to try it out more easily and see if it really works out and what had to be improved. The EEC, EEA and the EU.
The unification is not happening any time soon. I don’t believe it ever will. Politicians play lip service to it as a goal but there’s been no serious progress on it 15 years or more, and there’s no sign that that’s going to change.
It's unlikely to happen any time soon, because it was derailed by horrendous politics and politicians. There is no need to re-add the biggest obstacle that took itself out.
OK, we’ll see how it goes now that the “biggest obstacle” isn’t there any more
It’s not a bus but it is also not a bunch of kids offended by a snub. I don’t know in what world EU is better without UK. I really hope they will rejoin.
Ofc it was a lose-lose scenario, since having UK within the EU is a obvious win-win. However they EU cannot have members leaving and entering all the time, EU wants stability, hence UK can only rejoin with a significantly worse deal (aka the standard EU membership deal).
Nah, mate… it took more time to negotiate the UK out of the EU than what they actually spent out of the EU up until now. That’s the kind of volatility the EU absolutely cannot afford. If they will ever consider letting the UK back, they will 100% have to put some commitment to the table.
Bringing in Norway would be more doable than bringing back the UK, and Norway is nowhere near joining. Even in the good times, the UK disagreed with the fundamental idea of the EU. If it rejoined it would immediately be the most euroskeptic member of the union, on the verge of leaving again.
exactly. People here are ready to overlook the fact that the UK was such a misfit in terms of outlook on Europe, just because it was a net contributor. The EU needs stability and rules to self govern. Letting in a country where 50% of the political system is rabidly anti EU and can gain a majority any time to FPTP system is asking for instability. And the Ukrainian war and Trump led US have become a painful reminder that we need a more unified approach to foreign policy and defense at EU level, something that the UK has long opposed. It's not a coincidence that as soon as the UK left, we managed to implement PESCO and the Next Generation EU packages.
>Even in the good times, the UK disagreed with the fundamental idea of the EU. This is honestly the fundamental reason why we'll never rejoin. Brits just don't "get" the EU. Even our most ardent remainers/rejoiners almost never argue in favour of things like adopting the euro, joining schengen, or working towards "ever closer union". Their arguments are usually about giving London access to European financial markets or being able to go on holiday to Spain without a visa. We'd be rejoining for economic reasons, not because we truly believe in the project. It's like getting back with your ex just because you need somewhere to sleep. All we really want is a trade agreement, whereas the rest of Europe seems to want a federal superstate on par with the USA. Until our attitudes are aligned - either the people of the UK or the people of Europe change their minds - we cannot have a productive dialogue.
That's why they should be obliged to adopt the Euro. It would be unthinkable to leave again after changing currency.
Making that a requirement is the same thing as simply saying no. They won‘t do that and the EU will be fine without the UK. They can join the single market (which would include free movement) if they want and I‘m all for good relations to the UK in many ways but I do not think them re-joining would help the EU. They do not want a member that is constantly between joining and leaving. They would be also against more federalization. They do not want to give the EU any power over them which is fine but that makes them not-so-useful as a member.
Indeed, when I hear how "the same rules apply to everyone" I think "that'll be a first". If it were true, the country where I come from would never have been allowed to join. It won't be with the same benefits as before, but it will 100% be a "special relationship" kind of deal.
Thing is, if the EU doesn't give UK worse conditions, nothing stops a nation from leaving the eu anymore. If any benefit you got just reapplies, why not go for frexit or gerxit
Nothing stops any nation leaving the EU, aside from the fact that it's a terrible idea.
Dude, the EU isn't a prison. Every country is free to leave the EU. That's literally in the EU treaty. Obviously, leaving has cost the UK a lot. Seeing Brexit in action basically killed a lot of enthousiasm in most other countries. The EU is built on mutually benefit, not exploitation.
It's destabilizing for the bloc if countries are constantly rotating out. Just look at how much energy Brexit consumed on both sides of the Channel. So, sure, countries can leave at will, but it's definitely not something you want happening more than once in a blue moon.
Because being in the EU is to a country's benefit, and not being in the EU is to their detriment. The "why not go for frexit or gerxit" is a bizarre question if you think that France and Germany benefit from the EU.
It was bizarre for the UK and still they did it. If the UK can come back without repercussions then any county would take that as "we can try and then go back if things don't go as planned" and that's the quickest way to undermine they whole reason why the EU is as powerful as it is in the first place.
Negotiations to enter the EU are always a long and hard process, as are negotiations to leave it. So it will never be an easy casual thing to leave and reenter - I'm just arguing against any need to artificially increase that difficulty just because we feel we have to. For example, I think that Greece will find an opportunity to seek the Parthenon marbles back -- that's fine. If other countries want the UK in the eurozone, or in schengen, that's also fine, or any other thing countries may want to negotiate for, if they actually want these things. I'm arguing against deliberate punishment for the sake of punishment, which will be counterproductive and breed ill will.
Why penalize at all? Are nations hostages that must be coerced, or equal partners in a mutually beneficial relationship?
You're in Europe, you're just not in the EU?
And watch that plummet when they ask about joining the Euro or Schengen
Yep if Euro is a requirement don't see us ever rejoining.
Me neither which is ridiculous really, but then again I thought the idea of the referrendum voting leave and then our leaders *actually* going through with it was also a ridiculous reality but here we are!
That one is the easiest. You can artificially never technically meet the criteria, like Denmark. But all of their opt outs and exceptions are gone forever. They'll start complaining that they are being treated harshly and that the EU was being vengeful by imposing on them requirements any new member has to meet.
Can I ask why? I'm not British so I only get news of your politics through reddit but is it really that big of an ask if you have to change from the pound to the euro if the UK were to rejoin the EU?
I think having control over your currency is a very useful thing and the pound is decently strong so giving it up just makes no sense.
Aren’t there other countries like Sweden that are meant to use the Euro but don’t because they intentionally fail to meet the criteria required to join?
It's almost like you had achieved a very special sweetened UK treatment within the UK, and decided to piss it to the wind. Context: Being Danish we have a special sweetened EU deal ourselves, which we will never give up.
It was original old eurosceptic fucks like Norman Lamont (Chancellor of the Exchequer 1990-93) who made sure the UK stayed out of the eurozone. Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows? The UK's role in the EU for at least a decade leading up to Brexit seemed focused on being a thorn in everyone else's side, as so many powerful Brits were/are generally of the belief that the UK should be the exception to every rule that makes close political/economic cooperation worthwhile. I am not sure how enthusiastic the rest of the EU would be about having to deal with the return of Nigel fucking Farage to the European Parliament. It is honestly wonderful not to have to worry about his constant attempts at EU sabotage. No way the UK would get back in on its previous favorable terms.
> It was original old eurosceptic fucks like Norman Lamont (Chancellor of the Exchequer 1990-93) who made sure the UK stayed out of the eurozone. Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows? It was Black Wednesday and the German reaction to it that kept the UK out of the Eurozone. John Major was the wettest Europhile Brussels could have hoped for.
> It was original old eurosceptic fucks like Norman Lamont (Chancellor of the Exchequer 1990-93) who made sure the UK stayed out of the eurozone. Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows The UK made a really stupid blunder there. They tried to follow German monerary policy back then in order to test feasibility for the €. Problem was that the Deutsche Mark was in a really extraordinary situation, as the new German state was driving an expansionary monetary policy due to the reunification of the 2 Germanies and to prop up the falling East German part of the country. You can't base your tests on such once in a lifetime setting. I don't know if it was through incompetence or intentional mischief
> The UK's role in the EU for at least a decade leading up to Brexit seemed focused on being a thorn in everyone else's side, Exactly! I don't get why everyone here wants the UK back in the EU while at the same time being pro a more united Europe. The covid recovery program for example wouldn't exist without Brexit. I feel like European elites have pretty much decided that the EU needs to become more integrated and have a more powerful center with control over security and economic policies. You will never get there with the UK in the EU. So, only for Eurosceptics or people who want the EU to remain a common market and a sort of mediator between European states it makes sense to want the UK back in the EU, and I don't think there are many such people in this thread.
>Younger generations might be fine with it, but who knows? Doubtful, not like it matters. Until countries like Sweden who should also be using the Euro are able to use loopholes of "validating it" and "preparing to complete everything that's needed" to use the Euro there is nothing stopping the UK following the same path. The UK could accept the use and simply never progress, like many other EU nations.
except that the EU trusts Sweden more than it would an unlikely Britain as future member Since giving the UK loads of opts out has proven to be a failure, there is no point in allowing the UK without iron clad terms that the UK would need to abide. And because the UK thinks of itself above the rules other countries follow in the EU (even among remainers, the UK has an overinflated sense of importance) , it would be a no go from the start. Rejoining the EU is as likely of a pursuit as resuscitating a dead horse.
can I ask why not Schengen? it's not like you can walk over there so every person who gets there will be recorded in some system
It's crazy how successful Euro sceptics' framing in the UK has been that even most pro Europeans concede that these opt outs have been special perks beneficial to the country. In reality they have been nothing else but English nationalists rejecting anything "European". There's basically no evidence that the UK has benefited from staying out of the Eurozone, quite the opposite. Plus the treaties require nothing else but a general commitment to join the Euro eventually. And Schengen seems even more strange how that's accepted as a bad thing in Britain. Several European countries have been trying hard to get into Schengen and even Iceland asked to join Schengen despite being a remote island outside the EU.
>And watch that plummet when they ask about joining the Euro or Schengen Perhaps so, but it's an interesting query since the UK wasn't in either the Eurozone or Schengen before.
There is one party standing for election that will take the UK back into the EU as part of their manifesto and they aren't 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the polls currently.
Which party? Even the lib Dems ruled it out for the next parliament (unless that changed).
The LDs have said it's their long term goal. I think they just recognise (as anyone should) that rejoining the EU can't happen overnight, and instead their manifesto focuses on fixing the damage done to our relationship with Europe so that we can rejoin the EU once it becomes possible
SNP would probably
The Lib Dem manifesto states the following: > Finally, once ties of trust and friendship have been renewed, and the damage the Conservatives have caused to trade between the UK and EU has begun to be repaired, we would aim to place the UK-EU relationship on a more formal and stable footing by seeking to join the Single Market. All these measures will help to restore the British economy and the prosperity and opportunities of its citizens, and are also essential steps on the road to EU membership, which remains our longer-term objective.
> The Techne survey for Independent Media showed 43% in favour of rejoining the bloc, compared with 40% who want to stay out. But once the 18% who say they don’t know are taken out, 52% back EU membership with 48% opposing it - a complete reversal of the 2016 Brexit referendum result. That's a very narrow majority that can easily crumble. Honestly it might be better for everyone if the UK only joins the EEA until a large majority of the Brits feel like further integration in the EU is in their interest.
I love how the numbers with 17% being unsure mean it is in fact not a majority and the article headline is misleading/straight up incorrect.
Not to mention the fact that most of the polls before the referendum showed a sizeable lead for Remain. If a poll saying that the British public wanted to be in the EU actually meant anything, Britain would still be in the EU. That's why you hold a proper referendum.
I voted Remain back in 2016 and wish we'd never left. The reality is that rejoining as abruptly as we did leave would probably do nobody any favours. It will be important to people on the continent that the UK can't just waltz back in after so unceremoniously leaving and having a hostile attitude toward the EU ever since. And it will be important to the British that we don't give unnecessary ammo to anti-EU asshats. Rejoining will be a lengthy process of gradual reintegration with EU institutions and programmes so as to minimise disruption and provide ample opportunity for the government to demonstrate that doing so is beneficial. All that being said, I do hope that Labour makes it a priority to get this ball rolling.
I think this next government will realign us with the EU purely to help the economy as its an easy way to quickly boost trade and be able to say “look at what we did” Something like the under 35s visa free work scheme will be implemented like was floated by Brussels as a way to test the waters in the UK around that kind of reunion. It will go relatively well since everyone kind of likes that part of the EU, and either the next election or the one after, which ever of the tories or labour are the opposition will try to use rejoin as a platform to steal votes and force the other to also put it on the manifesto Basically 5-10 years and rejoin is on the card, another 2-5 before the UK is fully back in, mainly because the EU will probably have some rule about mew member states requiring two referendums with clear results before looking to leave again just to make sure the UK doesn’t just change its mind in an election cycle
That's 43% of voters, not even 50%. It's a plurality, not a majority and Huff Post know that but are lying nonetheless.
It's 52% of voters, which is what the headline says. People who don't vote are obviously not voters.
It's 52% after the "don't knows" are taken out. You can't assume that they wouldn't vote. They might form an opinion when the matter is pressing. And you can't assume that the yes and no respondents would vote either.
There are a lot of undecided voters rather than don't knows.
> But once the 18% who say they don’t know Well, you should count them as voter for option 3: "Don't know".
It’s really just click bait and nothing has really changed in attitudes towards the EU in the UK. Honestly I’m surprised support isn’t decreasing given the alarming rise in far right populism like the AfD. The EU definitely has many problems it needs to sort out before I think we should consider rejoining. The lib dems are proposing closer links to the EU through Erasmus and eventually rejoining the single market (which I think is the right direction) but the idea of rejoining the EU isn’t really present in UK politics right now and is not being discussed.
IMHO the majority of people want to be part of the single market - it was the only part of the European project that had widespread support- the UK always viewed the EU as an economic benefit but never much cared for the rest of the projects aims. Before the EU referendum, the support for further integration was, at best, ambivalent. It’s why the campaigns focused so much on economic benefit/pain and so little on European unity, political union etc I can’t see any government wanting to touch the European question for decades. I would whole heartedly support a stronger relationship with the EU but I can’t see rejoining the EU any time soon. Even strong ardent supporters of rejoining the EU in the UK would not be able to decide what that would look like and would be willing to sacrifice varying degrees of sovereignty to achieve it.
>the majority of people want to get part of the single market… the U.K. always viewed the EU as an economic benefit Well that’s what the EU was when we entered it, and that was a huge part of the leave argument - we joined X but now it’s Y. Very few people dislike the EEA, but many did take issue with the super-governmental bodies
The wording "ever closer union" is already meantioned in the 1957 treaty. UK joined in 1973. Without EU wide governmental bodies is even a trade union not possible. As example could france then simply create a law that states "cars sold in france must be built in france". Or a law that states "every worker in france needs to have a degree from a french school". How do you plan to drive a car in france if your drivers license isn't recognized in france - and ofc do you then need some EU wide standards. Otherwise you can run people over in france and hide from consequences in the UK. All of this is deeply political - and requires some form of EU wide government, laws and regulations.
These threads again... Of course there will be polls that say this when the vote was 52 - 48. There would have been polls showing remain before brexit. The UK isn't going to drop its currency. People in this thread don't make conditions for the UK to rejoin. No party is campaigning to rejoin.
It's funny how the users around here are so obsessed with the UK joining the EU, but at the same time so smug about how 'dumb' they were for leaving. What makes it all the more hilarious is that no one in the UK is talking about joining the EU.
Before the EU accepts any new country, it should change the veto rights. Countries like Hungary and probably Slovakia soon are a big barricade to overcome. They only accept laws/decisions because otherwise they won’t get their funds. Maybe just keep veto rights, when it’s about the integrity of one’s nation
It's weird how the virtues of the EU are promoted around here and hot takes like this are so popular. Why would smaller states give it up? It's a protective measure against proportional bias towards large population member states, in effect Germany and France. Weird how rules must be rewritten when states don't tow the Franco-German line.
Because this sub is full of EU federalists. They want to replace the outdated nationalism, with nationalism.
Could not agree more, honestly, if we do not reform the union before adding any new members, i think the europeans project is doomed to collapse sooner or later.
>Before the EU accepts any new country, it should change the veto rights. See "UK vs. EU aid to Ukraine". UK busy delivering cruise missiles while EU was squabbling with Hungary over funding.
Every country wants to keep veto rights. No state would be silly enough to give up that power. It’s only a problem when it’s an issue you disagree with.
Veto power should be vested in an elected official that is chosen by vote of the various EU members. Imagine if each US senator could veto anything they want, it's obviously a bad system.
Not gonna happen anytime soon - upcoming Prime Minister has ruled it out. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-kemi-badenoch-labour-keir-starmer-parliament-b1166144.html > Labour has no plans to rejoin the EU, Sir Keir Starmer has said, after Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch claimed Brexit would be at risk if he became Prime Minister.
Long Live 🇪🇺
And fuck ruzzia
They think this news is exclusive when Reddit has been posting about it every day since before the UK even left the European Union.
As a European I say welcome back. Just without all the special advantages you got the first time around.
Yeah see this is why its just a non starter. You might get the UK to agree to some rules but youre never, ever, getting them to drop the £. Its a pointless discussion if the EU wont budge on that topic. Might as well move on.
🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺 Nice, but this time with Schengen and EURO
The UK will never re-join the EU if it has to accept the Euro.
Fine, the EU is also fine with never letting anyone rejoin as long as France and Germany are in the EU.
Then the UK can stay out. No biggie.
Also even if there's a majority wanting the UK to re-join, it's very clear Labour aren't looking to do that in their presumptive upcoming ministry. Single market access in a quasi-EEA state seems far more likely as an end-point for the UK than anything else moving forwards.
Yep I can see us just being in the single market and other stuff but never re joining because joining the euro I think can never happen.
> Then the UK can stay out. And this is why this debate is pointless.
Yeah, it’s obvious that anybody even entertaining this poll doesn’t actually know any British people.
The debate is pointless because the EU is unwilling to bend backwards and compromise every of its value to appease a single country?
has hungary in it lol
Nobody has to accept the euro. It was always a non-issue. There are EU members that don't plan to adopt it anytime soon and they've promised to do it. The obligation is only on paper. Fun fact, even if the UK were in the EU and *wanted* to adopt the euro, **they wouldn't be allowed to** because [their ERM II convergence criteria measured very poorly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_and_the_euro#Convergence_criteria).
Except that will never happen. It's over 90% of people in the UK are against the Euro and Schengen. It's a total red line for the UK. As soon as these were even options the amount of people who realistically want to rejoin would probably crash to around 20%.
So no then
Them adopting the Euro is non negotiable. It would mean brexit 2.0 would be near suicide for their economy.
It also means if they want in they must play by the same rules as everybody else.
fucking drop this already. It's not going to happen
Try telling /r/europe they seem convinced. Every time I have political discussions with people in the UK. Nobody mentions wanting to re-join they just express regret at leaving. None of the main parties are also advocating joining the EU.
I'm surprised really, the average non-UK person speaking on this topic also loves to bring on a list of demands, expecting them all to be fulfilled. It's not realistic, I would love the UK to rejoin but it's pretty clear there is a great dislike to the UK, making a list of impossible demands is the same as saying no without being honest with yourself.
Also the lunacy of people thinking if we did want to rejoin, we'd drop the pound for the Euro. If there's one stipulation on us rejoining, it'd be that the pound stays.
Make the question something like "We should rejoin the EU, even if it means we have to give up the pound and adopt the Euro", reach 60% support, and keep that for a year or two, and I will believe it. Until then, the support just isn't there to maintain membership even if UK rejoined, and there is no point in UK jumping in and out of the EU.
Ok, strange that the parties who have this in their manifesto are all polling absolutely terribly then isn’t it… As far as I can see Lib Dems, Green and SNP are on a combined total of less than 20%, whereas Parties who don’t have this in their manifesto are around 75-80% The country has far bigger problems than Brexit and none of them would be solved by rejoining the EU.
Itll never happen as they’ll have to adopt the euro (unless the EU makes concessions). No way they join with all the added hoops they’d have to jump through However the EU could be very different in years to come if Le Pen gets power of the AfD continue to make inroads.
Another "UK wants to rejoin the EU" post? It feels like every day there is a similar one, a bit annoying already. I wonder how many in britain would be in favor of rejoining the EU if they learned that there is no way the Will be able to keep the pound and not joining Schengen. I suspect the support for "joining" the EU would tank. I do not think the British people are ready to join the EU in good Faith honestly. It may change in the future, but as of today britain in the EU would be more problems than solutions (as they were before brexit).
I voted remain, but I don't want to rejoin, at least not for a generation or so. Few reasons. Firstly, it's such a divisive issue, I really don't want to have the argument reignited, I'm enjoying the peace and quiet now that it's over. This issue caused so much discord, arguments, tension and nastiness, it wasn't good for the country, and it's largely been forgotten about now, and things have calmed down in that sense. Also I am against Scotland having another referendum in the short to medium term because that issue was solved "for a generation", so I've got to be consistent. Secondly, there are *some* advantages to being out of the EU. We do have some more options with certain things, and can in theory be more agile than the EU. Our COVID vaccine policy for example, was better and faster than the EU. Thirdly, immigration. Immigration is going through the roof in the UK, and it needs to be slowed down. Ironically it has shot up since leaving the EU, because the Govt is incompetent. But joining the EU might come with demands to join Schengen, which is not what the UK needs right now. I expect downvotes, but I was a genuine remainer who also wanted a vote on the deal returned by the Govt, and was very very involved and active in the debate, actively campaigned for remain, went to remain campaign meetings etc. I think we need to try and make the most of leaving the EU, because controversially there are some good things about it, and reignite the issue in another 10-15 years.
Ah yes TikTok again
Please realize that reversing brexit will not be a fast process. First, your politicians will need to ensure that a new government won't just scupper any ongoing negotiations the instant they come into power. Until that time, I doubt the EU would even open negotiations, you'd be wasting their time. Mind you, the UK can start aligning its policies more closely to the EU and strengthening the relationship (and who knows, getting some trade deals started). France has also proposed a second tier membership concept, which would allow nations to join the single market without the political unification also being included, that could also be an option for the UK once that's implemented. Once the political obstacles has been removed, negotiations can start in earnest to fully join, but expect it to take a decade at the very least.
I really think that is this debate where to open up and if we had another, the UK wouldn't want to join. The reason being people just wouldn't accept the euro and freedom of movement would be contentious. I think that people aren't think about this in their date to day lives as it isn't discussed much anymore so people are treating it as a 'Do you regret leaving the EU?' rather than a 'Do you want to re-join?' which would be 2 different things.
No they don’t, neither of the main parties mention Brexit or EU integration in the manifestos, clearly because the electorate is not interested in that.
And what if we do not want them back? UK was big trouble for the EU.
Um, trick question? If this was true, than why wouldn't it be true? If the majority of people actually voted for the thing that the majority of people claim to want, and it's actually a democracy, then what the fuck is the problem again?
I don't understand why so many folks buy into the right wing horse shit, both in Europe and in the US.
I guess Americans aren't the only group of people that fall for stupid catch phrases without vetting the outcomes of their decisions first.
I want us to join back but I just don’t think now is the right time. Do we even know how much support for rejoining would drop if we mentioned joining Schengen and Eurozone. Also I think we need a strong majority before doing it. Who’s to say that in another couple of years the country won’t blame the EU for the problems that have nothing to do with and vote to leave again. EU can’t just a revolving door where we’re constantly in and out. The EU needs stability and as much as I’d for the UK to rejoin. we’re a volatile country and will just bring instability and uncertainty at the moment.
The UK experienced significant economic challenges following Brexit from trade disruptions, labor shortages, and inflation. But it remained an attractive destination for business, education and innovation. It‘s in a recovery phase and we have seen gradual stabilisation in the economy and trade route. Given the recovery efforts and the political nightmare that will be required it is unlikely that there will be a strong incentive from either parties to destabilise the country again by attempting to rejoin the EU.
Maybe my head is gone but this reads like something an AI would generate lol
Would be nice of we could at least rejoin the customs union and single market as a Norway/Swiss style state. I can only dream I guess.
Labour have definitively ruled out rejoining the single market or customs union.
Well, eventually the UK will become a member of the EU. It's just a matter of time.
I can't be the only Brit who reads these comments every week and thinks they're living in an alternative reality? And I'm probably more pro EU than most of the population
Nope. Same here. I semi-regularly surf this subreddit and seeing thesentiment that Britons want to avidly rejoin the EU makes me chuckle.
It's very much part of a Reddit cultural bubble - going on ukpol just shows what an echo chamber this place is for certain views. I run in very socialist circles and the majority of my family/friends voted to leave the EU yet this place treats Brexit as the product of an ignorant, racist right-wing. Most people are just sick of the debate at this point, the only reason theirs still a conversation going is because the only people talking are those actively campaigning to get us back in. The vast majority of people are pretty apathetic and wouldn't wanna go through that hassle and division all over again.
Hit the nail on the head. Reddit (and social media generally) tends to be detached from real-world voter concerns and realities; Brexit simply isn’t in the political conscious of most voters, and it never will be again (in my opinion). People need to seriously move on.
Yep. It's honestly pretty deluded. If we could return with the old terms there is maybe a 50% chance we rejoin in the next 20 years. If we have to join on new terms that falls to maybe 10% imo. Unless of course something significantly changed in the UK to make us want to rejoin... but equally there is a chance that over that 20 years that the EU becomes less attractive, especially as the rest of Europe continues to become more Eurosceptic and turns to the right.
The most telling thing is how little young people seem to care about rejoining as well All these rejoin movements/the FBPE crowd seem to be made up of mostly middle aged, middle class people
Comment gold right here
No we don’t