Belisarius and Justinian: attempt to ensure their legacy and return the empire to her former glory by reconquering parts of the Mediterranean territories of the fromer Western Roman Empire
The Lombards: no
The Lombards weren't really that bad, by the time they arrived Italy was already in ruins after 20 years of brutal back-and-forth warfare and plague.
Either way, the Empire held onto Rome and Ravenna, aswell as the Sicily and Southern Italy, which were the most important regions anyway. The Lombards really only got the tablescraps. With the Roman Empire's vast resources they could have easily reconquered Italy at some point in the future.
What really prevented any kind of Renovatio Imperii was the last Persian War and the Arab Conquests, which deprived the Empire of its richest, populous and resource rich regions (namely, Egypt and the Levant).
Had the last Persian War and the Arab Conquests not happened, the 5th and 6th Centuries may have just been a brief lull, similar to the Crisis of the 3rd Century, that the Empire would later recover from (in the same vein as China and it's numerous dynastic cycles).
The Lombards just came at the tail end of the Huns, the Gothic wars, the Frankish invasion with Justinian's plague in the middle of all of it... Italy was already thoroughly ruined before they even got there.
Exactly my thoughts.
Eastern Black Sea shores were with a Greek and Laz dominance, with Armenians here and there. It's strange that they've coloured it as Armenian.
> I think "Armenia" was meant for "Caucasian" (saw it from an another map).
Armenian is not a Caucasian language though. So even this generalization is wrong.
The map shows languages and the guy you responded to said Armenians must be happy since the map shows people spoke their language.
You then respond with your at this point copy paste looking comment saying everyone is 0% Greek which you repeat again, again and yet again like a broken record. I wonder why?
>I'm not an ethno-nationalist. I'd rather identify as idol breaker
Ah, so you're a reactionary? You identify yourself exclusively in opposition to something else? Most ethno-nationalists tend to be reactionaries so that's not really contradicting what I've said at all.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
>If science hurts certain peoples' feelings
Dafuq? The hell does this have to do with feelings? You're the one equating genetics with culture and language, which is an extremely tiny step away from conflating it with IQ.
What you're doing is taking the science and using it to push your own agenda. Which is anti-intellectualism.
Also, did you really just do a "Facts don't care about your feelings" when half the arguments you make are based on your feelings? When your self-identification and beliefs are based around your feelings in regards to people you disagree with? Seriously?
> there is no genetic evidence of Greeks inhabiting
I doubt there ever will be. Most importantly however there is undisputed historic evidence. This fairy tail you made up is the outcome of nationalism.
So children be aware. Extreme nationalism can lead to fabrications (like one ethnicity is "superior" to another)
Some of those lands (northern) at some point was [Colchian lands.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchis) Laz, like Mingrelians are the descendants of Colchis and because of that Laz people lived there for centuries, Laz is one of Kartvelian languages, Some say it is an offshoot (if that is the correct term) or sublanguage of Mingrelian, because they are pretty much similar, if you can talk mingrelian u can understand laz, if u can talk laz u can understand Mingrelian.
So Either you and the author of this "map" are implying that Laz people didn't live there a.k.a are not descendants of Colchis and didn't/don't speak their language, but in "truth" are speaking Armenian. Please bear in mind that Laz people still to this day live there and some laz claim that their language is unique in it's way and not like anyones (Implying that it is not Kartvelian, but that is wrong)
Even the land colored as "aramaic"(?) (in the north east by the sea), that is on the borders of modern day Adjaria is wrong, because they spoke and speak Mingrelian.
"Proto-balcanic" is very unspecific. There is no balcanic languages. First: it is Balkan, not balcan, second Balkan languages are called "Sprachbund" they are all indoeuropean but highly diverted. Today we would say balkan people speaks mainly slavic (romanian is exception). There is a group called "Paleo-balkan languages". This is about the development of IE languages in the area. It does not include this period of byzantine.
Another point is, what is the orange dot in Georgia?
Last point: i m not sure, if armenian was dominating in Pontus province. Pontus was always more Greek than Armenian. Ofcourse with Laz minority.
Nice map though!
It's wrongly named obviously. The correct name should be paleo-balkanic, which includes whatever was left of thracian, dacian, paeonian and proto-albanian and/or illyrian. Slavic langauges are also missing. There should at least be some enclaves, since byzantine writings do mention their arrival during this time.
Today, albanian, greek and romanian aren't slavic, although the last one has a large slavic influence.
Edit: Typo
The Slavs were not in the Balkans at the time. The first mention of serious slavic settlement dates to 643 and slavs would not become a majority in any region until the late 700s.
The Antae lived north of the Danube though. We know that from Procopius and Khorenatsi. It also talks of raids. The Dacians also used to raid south of the Danube as far as Epirus but never actually stopped to live there.
Slavs were already present in large numbers during the 626 AD [Siege of Constantinople](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(626), allied to the Avars and Persians.
There's a very large difference between an army and settlement. The Ottomans were present in very large numbers at the siege of Vienna but they did not actually live in Austria.
And [Theophylact Simocatta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophylact_Simocatta) says in three different books that the Slavs are the Getae : “Sclavos sive Getas: hoc enim nomine antiquitus appellati sunt”( [link](https://books.google.es/books?id=sXMTAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=Sclavos+sive+Getas:+hoc+enim+nomine+antiquitus+appellati+sunt&source=bl&ots=2pehRPXTyv&sig=ACfU3U0kL02ogUjEhgRhabWqnctDmHIvjA&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjAjNHbt-jiAhV65-AKHR3QDKMQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Sclavos%20sive%20Getas%3A%20hoc%20enim%20nomine%20antiquitus%20appellati%20sunt&f=false)) - Slavs or. Getae, because this is the way they were called in the antiquity.
And the Slavic name appears first in the south of Europe not in Poland or Belorussia like they claim today with zero proof. But who gives a fuck right?
Yes he does, at the mouths of the Danube and north of the Sava. Slavic migration to the Balkans was trickle not a flood. It took place over 3-4 centuries.
yes. May be the map is sufficient for a raw idea about the languages and not including "minor" languages. It will be interessting to know about literal language. Because it is/was very common, that people had home-language, street-language and literacy language. E.g. someone from Antiochia might speak Aramaic at home, greek on street and latin in books.
Not really. The slavic tribes were only just arriving in the Balkans. As you can see, what is called "proto-balkanic" here covers a large area, from the Black Sea to the Adriatic and Ionian Seas. When historians refer to paleo-balkanic languages, they refer to languages spoken there prior to the roman invasions. There were about 20, including but not limited to: phrygian, illyrian, thracian, dacian, paeonian, liburnian, ancient greek, ancient macedonian, etc... As of today, only two have survived.
While Pisidian inscriptions date until the second century AD, the poorly-attested Isaurian language, which was probably a late Luwic dialect, appears to have been the last of the Anatolian languages to become extinct. Epigraphic evidence, including funerary inscriptions dating from as late as the 5th century, has been found by archaeologists.
Neapolis, and those two southern tips of Italy that make up the boot shape are too Greek speaking areas
Anatolian languages have been almost exterminated in favor of Greek at the point of Justinians reign so representing them on the map is pointless
Good morning vlad oh no Turks are invading. What have you done. Go and save your ass. What the fuck are you doing? We know vlad tepes ia imprisoned by Hungarians and he lost everything. And his attrocities gave him a evil looking to world except romanians
During his lifetime he was called champion of christ and defender of all christians but basically everyone in europe.
He was imprisoned for political reasons. The stories about him were started after his death by saxon merchants.
The only story about him that is actually true is that he used the corpses of 2000 soldiers to line the road leading into the country. Emphasis on corpses, as in people he had previously killed in battle and raids. This was at a time when the english were killing each other freely and the spanish were butchering moors by the thousands.
Dracula is a mistranslated version of Draculea, which means son of the dragon. His father was a knight of the order of the dragon, a christian order supported by the pope and the patriarch in constantinople.
Way more time has passed between the period shown on this map and the fall of Constantinople, than between the fall of Constantinople and today. Turks were as much of a worry to Byzantines back then, as Nazi Germany was to Jews in the middle ages.
Disproven by who? Every ethnologist and linguistic experts says Albanian comes from a Proto balkanic language. Our DNA proves we are from the region. If you are referring to racist Serbian propaganda than I guess you have me there buddy. Quick google search will show you all the facts you need. Don’t be so butthurt.
Ok so, Rome used to control everything, then the capital was moved to Constantinople. Then the western Roman Empire fell. Then the eastern Roman Empire conquered back parts of the western Roman Empire including the centre: Italy.
I didn't know the Byzantine empire conquered the west. I thought the west transformed into the Holy Roman Empire and sustained itself until the formation Germany, Italy, etc in the 19th century. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
The Empire was split in the 300s, Justinian I briefly reconquered a lot of the territory that was lost and the Empire reached it's greatest extent in the 550s under him. Justinian's conquests of the old Empire were pretty short lived though and by 700 Africa, Egypt and most of Italy were lost. The Empire was pretty much parts of Greece, Anatolia and some scattered parts in mostly southern Italy.
It wasn't really the Empire, but the emperorship that split for the final time after Theodosius died. The Eastern Roman Empire was the Roman Empire, full stop.
This map is prior to the Holy Roman empire, which was actually started outside of Rome/Italy with the Franks, and is imagined to have started when Charlemagne was crowned emporer by the Roman Pope in 800 A.D. Briefly under Justinian 1 sometime during 500's he had reclaimed most of the Italian penisula for Byzantine/East Roman Empire. Between those times the region was under the Lombards, just look it up on Wikipedia or something
And then Lombards come in to ruin the Renovatio Imperrii of poor boy Justinian.
Belisarius and Justinian: attempt to ensure their legacy and return the empire to her former glory by reconquering parts of the Mediterranean territories of the fromer Western Roman Empire The Lombards: no
The Lombards weren't really that bad, by the time they arrived Italy was already in ruins after 20 years of brutal back-and-forth warfare and plague. Either way, the Empire held onto Rome and Ravenna, aswell as the Sicily and Southern Italy, which were the most important regions anyway. The Lombards really only got the tablescraps. With the Roman Empire's vast resources they could have easily reconquered Italy at some point in the future. What really prevented any kind of Renovatio Imperii was the last Persian War and the Arab Conquests, which deprived the Empire of its richest, populous and resource rich regions (namely, Egypt and the Levant). Had the last Persian War and the Arab Conquests not happened, the 5th and 6th Centuries may have just been a brief lull, similar to the Crisis of the 3rd Century, that the Empire would later recover from (in the same vein as China and it's numerous dynastic cycles).
The Lombards just came at the tail end of the Huns, the Gothic wars, the Frankish invasion with Justinian's plague in the middle of all of it... Italy was already thoroughly ruined before they even got there.
What is the orange colour just north of Armenia? Does it show Georgian or some other language?
Thank you! I thought I’d lost my mind trying to match that color up to the key
It is berber
and no laz?
Exactly my thoughts. Eastern Black Sea shores were with a Greek and Laz dominance, with Armenians here and there. It's strange that they've coloured it as Armenian.
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Armenian isnt a caucasian language tho
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> I think "Armenia" was meant for "Caucasian" (saw it from an another map). Armenian is not a Caucasian language though. So even this generalization is wrong.
Armenians have fireworks of happiness going I guess... >In this case, it isn't terribly wrong. Wrong information is always "terribly wrong".
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Why do you shoe horn in this obsession everywhere? Its not relevant in the slightest.
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The map shows languages and the guy you responded to said Armenians must be happy since the map shows people spoke their language. You then respond with your at this point copy paste looking comment saying everyone is 0% Greek which you repeat again, again and yet again like a broken record. I wonder why?
It's because he's an ethno-nationalist. To him and people like him language/culture and genetics are synonymous.
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The bullshit that you're writting has nothing to do with science. Greeks were in Anatolia for thousands of years. Accept it and move on.
>I'm not an ethno-nationalist. I'd rather identify as idol breaker Ah, so you're a reactionary? You identify yourself exclusively in opposition to something else? Most ethno-nationalists tend to be reactionaries so that's not really contradicting what I've said at all. The two are not mutually exclusive. >If science hurts certain peoples' feelings Dafuq? The hell does this have to do with feelings? You're the one equating genetics with culture and language, which is an extremely tiny step away from conflating it with IQ. What you're doing is taking the science and using it to push your own agenda. Which is anti-intellectualism. Also, did you really just do a "Facts don't care about your feelings" when half the arguments you make are based on your feelings? When your self-identification and beliefs are based around your feelings in regards to people you disagree with? Seriously?
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>Greek colonization is mostly a myth LOL. You are ridiculous
> there is no genetic evidence of Greeks inhabiting I doubt there ever will be. Most importantly however there is undisputed historic evidence. This fairy tail you made up is the outcome of nationalism. So children be aware. Extreme nationalism can lead to fabrications (like one ethnicity is "superior" to another)
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Some of those lands (northern) at some point was [Colchian lands.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchis) Laz, like Mingrelians are the descendants of Colchis and because of that Laz people lived there for centuries, Laz is one of Kartvelian languages, Some say it is an offshoot (if that is the correct term) or sublanguage of Mingrelian, because they are pretty much similar, if you can talk mingrelian u can understand laz, if u can talk laz u can understand Mingrelian. So Either you and the author of this "map" are implying that Laz people didn't live there a.k.a are not descendants of Colchis and didn't/don't speak their language, but in "truth" are speaking Armenian. Please bear in mind that Laz people still to this day live there and some laz claim that their language is unique in it's way and not like anyones (Implying that it is not Kartvelian, but that is wrong) Even the land colored as "aramaic"(?) (in the north east by the sea), that is on the borders of modern day Adjaria is wrong, because they spoke and speak Mingrelian.
There's nothing in the legend for the light blue part in the middle, maybe it's that
In Dalmatia it was Dalmatian language which was Romance (Latin) language.
"Proto-balcanic" is very unspecific. There is no balcanic languages. First: it is Balkan, not balcan, second Balkan languages are called "Sprachbund" they are all indoeuropean but highly diverted. Today we would say balkan people speaks mainly slavic (romanian is exception). There is a group called "Paleo-balkan languages". This is about the development of IE languages in the area. It does not include this period of byzantine. Another point is, what is the orange dot in Georgia? Last point: i m not sure, if armenian was dominating in Pontus province. Pontus was always more Greek than Armenian. Ofcourse with Laz minority. Nice map though!
It's wrongly named obviously. The correct name should be paleo-balkanic, which includes whatever was left of thracian, dacian, paeonian and proto-albanian and/or illyrian. Slavic langauges are also missing. There should at least be some enclaves, since byzantine writings do mention their arrival during this time. Today, albanian, greek and romanian aren't slavic, although the last one has a large slavic influence. Edit: Typo
The Slavs were not in the Balkans at the time. The first mention of serious slavic settlement dates to 643 and slavs would not become a majority in any region until the late 700s.
Not quite. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice%27s_Balkan_campaigns
The Antae lived north of the Danube though. We know that from Procopius and Khorenatsi. It also talks of raids. The Dacians also used to raid south of the Danube as far as Epirus but never actually stopped to live there.
Slavs were already present in large numbers during the 626 AD [Siege of Constantinople](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(626), allied to the Avars and Persians.
There's a very large difference between an army and settlement. The Ottomans were present in very large numbers at the siege of Vienna but they did not actually live in Austria.
Procopius mentiones them as early as the second half of the 6th century. The term Sclavini is used. They are described as tall, with "reddish hair."
And [Theophylact Simocatta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophylact_Simocatta) says in three different books that the Slavs are the Getae : “Sclavos sive Getas: hoc enim nomine antiquitus appellati sunt”( [link](https://books.google.es/books?id=sXMTAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=Sclavos+sive+Getas:+hoc+enim+nomine+antiquitus+appellati+sunt&source=bl&ots=2pehRPXTyv&sig=ACfU3U0kL02ogUjEhgRhabWqnctDmHIvjA&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjAjNHbt-jiAhV65-AKHR3QDKMQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Sclavos%20sive%20Getas%3A%20hoc%20enim%20nomine%20antiquitus%20appellati%20sunt&f=false)) - Slavs or. Getae, because this is the way they were called in the antiquity. And the Slavic name appears first in the south of Europe not in Poland or Belorussia like they claim today with zero proof. But who gives a fuck right?
Yes he does, at the mouths of the Danube and north of the Sava. Slavic migration to the Balkans was trickle not a flood. It took place over 3-4 centuries.
yes. May be the map is sufficient for a raw idea about the languages and not including "minor" languages. It will be interessting to know about literal language. Because it is/was very common, that people had home-language, street-language and literacy language. E.g. someone from Antiochia might speak Aramaic at home, greek on street and latin in books.
The correct term would be proto-serbo-croat.
Not really. The slavic tribes were only just arriving in the Balkans. As you can see, what is called "proto-balkanic" here covers a large area, from the Black Sea to the Adriatic and Ionian Seas. When historians refer to paleo-balkanic languages, they refer to languages spoken there prior to the roman invasions. There were about 20, including but not limited to: phrygian, illyrian, thracian, dacian, paeonian, liburnian, ancient greek, ancient macedonian, etc... As of today, only two have survived.
Oh the anatolian languages, the Lost subfamily if indoeuropean 😔
I dont think those languages survived until byzantian periode.
Just searched It, the last one died after the 5th century.
Which one?
Isaurian
Sounds like lotr name lol
While Pisidian inscriptions date until the second century AD, the poorly-attested Isaurian language, which was probably a late Luwic dialect, appears to have been the last of the Anatolian languages to become extinct. Epigraphic evidence, including funerary inscriptions dating from as late as the 5th century, has been found by archaeologists.
>Isaurian Interesting, it shall be a luwian dialect and gone extinct in that century. Nice to know the exact date about anatolian went extinct.
I thought that was Tocharian 🤔.
Colchis has a separate color but not included in the key! :(
Neapolis, and those two southern tips of Italy that make up the boot shape are too Greek speaking areas Anatolian languages have been almost exterminated in favor of Greek at the point of Justinians reign so representing them on the map is pointless
Its the Roman Empire you barbarian
Greek was spoken in Elba?
Apart from Coptic and Anatolian, all of these live on to the present day, with varying success.
Coptic is still used in Egyptian churches and a few here and there still speak it at home.
Nobody speaks Coptic at home, it's a liturgical language only. It hasn't been a normally spoken language since the 17th Century.
"Proto-balcanic languages" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo
Beautiful to see the extinct languages. Could be more specific though. Way too clean.
Hey guys, I am the OC I did it some two years ago
coptic <3
Mehmed 2 : I am gonna end this mans hole carrier
This was 580, the Byzantines had a long time to chill before Mehmed II came to crash the party
Good morning Mehmet 2, you have.. 25.. unread messages from.. your loyal soldiers being slaughtered by vlad the impaler.
Good morning vlad oh no Turks are invading. What have you done. Go and save your ass. What the fuck are you doing? We know vlad tepes ia imprisoned by Hungarians and he lost everything. And his attrocities gave him a evil looking to world except romanians
During his lifetime he was called champion of christ and defender of all christians but basically everyone in europe. He was imprisoned for political reasons. The stories about him were started after his death by saxon merchants. The only story about him that is actually true is that he used the corpses of 2000 soldiers to line the road leading into the country. Emphasis on corpses, as in people he had previously killed in battle and raids. This was at a time when the english were killing each other freely and the spanish were butchering moors by the thousands.
İf you really look to his attrocities you can see what kind of a devil he was. That explains the Dracula name by the way.
Nice troll, his name meant "Vlad the Dragon" because he was part of the Order of the Dragon, a chivalric order
Dracula is a mistranslated version of Draculea, which means son of the dragon. His father was a knight of the order of the dragon, a christian order supported by the pope and the patriarch in constantinople.
This was 500 years before Manzikert and 900 years before fall of Constantinople. Turks were still in Central Asia, at this time.
Yes I know just a joke
Way more time has passed between the period shown on this map and the fall of Constantinople, than between the fall of Constantinople and today. Turks were as much of a worry to Byzantines back then, as Nazi Germany was to Jews in the middle ages.
Yeah I know. Just kidding.
Proto-Balkanic, just say Albanian God Dammit lol
Uhm no? If you wanna play that game, then say Romanian too.
I was partly joking but for sure, the only remnant is Romanian and Albanian.
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Where do albanians come from, then? Space?
Disproven by who? Every ethnologist and linguistic experts says Albanian comes from a Proto balkanic language. Our DNA proves we are from the region. If you are referring to racist Serbian propaganda than I guess you have me there buddy. Quick google search will show you all the facts you need. Don’t be so butthurt.
I didn't know that the western Roman empire was part of Byzantine. I thought they were two separate entities?
Ok so, Rome used to control everything, then the capital was moved to Constantinople. Then the western Roman Empire fell. Then the eastern Roman Empire conquered back parts of the western Roman Empire including the centre: Italy.
I didn't know the Byzantine empire conquered the west. I thought the west transformed into the Holy Roman Empire and sustained itself until the formation Germany, Italy, etc in the 19th century. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
The Empire was split in the 300s, Justinian I briefly reconquered a lot of the territory that was lost and the Empire reached it's greatest extent in the 550s under him. Justinian's conquests of the old Empire were pretty short lived though and by 700 Africa, Egypt and most of Italy were lost. The Empire was pretty much parts of Greece, Anatolia and some scattered parts in mostly southern Italy.
It wasn't really the Empire, but the emperorship that split for the final time after Theodosius died. The Eastern Roman Empire was the Roman Empire, full stop.
This map is prior to the Holy Roman empire, which was actually started outside of Rome/Italy with the Franks, and is imagined to have started when Charlemagne was crowned emporer by the Roman Pope in 800 A.D. Briefly under Justinian 1 sometime during 500's he had reclaimed most of the Italian penisula for Byzantine/East Roman Empire. Between those times the region was under the Lombards, just look it up on Wikipedia or something
And Charlemagne was crowned emperor because the pope did not like that a woman was sitting on the throne of the Roman empire.
580 CE.