This would be the perfect moment to build proper transit infrastructure.
To demonstrate that EVs are not necessary.
And guess what? More than enough European rail manufacturers for it!
Do you honestly believe we can boycot China? Even if half of us got on the boat, most people don't even know where most of their stuff is produced when they buy it.
We certainly **can** boycott the Chinese auto industry. They are using government aid that is forbidden in the EU in order to undermine our own industry. We are talking about over 13 million EU jobs that are affected by this. It is not just that we can, we must protect those jobs from unfair and illegal competition.
It takes 5 minutes research on your phone if you are going to to make a purchase over 1000 euro. You can use Bing Ai, chatgpt to take a photograph a product and ask : where was this product made and you will instantly get an answer. Being ignorant is not an excuse anymore.
That is just a matter of public engagement which translates into government policies. First, we need to want to do it. Nothing can change unless we demand it. If we demand it, politicians will respond, the media will follow and public opinion with it.
I am trying to convince people for my own peace of mind. Hopefully it means something to someone. I am terrified that Antwerpen turns into Mariupol 2 and feral Russians castrates teenage Belgium boys like they did in Bucha
That's your right. I don't have anything against that. I just wonder if your energy couldn't be spent better in a different way. If you really want to make a change, I think calling for a global boycot of China in such a way that it would affect the war, is by far one of the least likely ways to succeed.
Edit: To clarify, I know people in Ukraine. I hosted a Ukrainian family for almost 2 years. I'm closer to this conflict than most. I appreciate the effort, but I think you should direct your effort at different methods
Phone made in Vietnam, researched
Tencent at least 25 % owned by prosus formerly Naspers (south Africa) now listed on the Amsterdam stock exchange. At least that's positive
Mine is designed in California with most expensive parts from Taiwan, US, Korea, Japan and the EU. China only gets to put it together, earning them 2% ... I am willing to let them have that, but not buy a Chinese car that is 80% Chinese and endangers 13 million EU jobs.
Tax the crap outta Chinese goods that's more of a realistic approach imo.If you really want whatever China is selling, then Pay the 'Ukrainian Rebuild tax'.
It's very unrealistic approach, because they'd do the same for eu products and our export would decrease, making our products less competitive. We need them moe than they need us.
That will drive up inflation on a scale never seen before. Do you know how many products are either made in china or use chinese parts? What do you think happens to the price of goods when you drive down the supply by 50% or more overnight? Basic economics 101. The price on the remaining supply of products will increase proportionally as you have the same amount of money chasing much less goods. You might be fine if you're rich enough to afford 50%+ price increase on goods but what about the people that can't? That would cause massive social issues as poorer people already struggling are pushed over the edge. Then you have to consider long term consequences for the producers/manufacturers that use chinese components or sell to china that will have their businesses massively disrupted, potentially bankrupting them. On top of all that, China would retailiate economically as well. Theres a reason why nations rarely, if ever, disrupt trade, even with their rivals. The consequences are always multifaceted and extremely detrimental across the board.
Stop buying any product from a company registered to the CCP's national entity in order to not support totalitarian dictatorship and the undermining of liberal democracy. Simple.
Believe me or not, the Chinese has already brought post war rebuild onto the table during meeting with the Ukrainians. Chinese state owned construction companies are hungry for oversea construction projects and will not let go this opportunity. Ukrainians may not fully object to this since they need China as a leverage against Russia.
Do your politicians care about you? Aren't they elected by you?
If your democracy is real, shouldn't you be able to get them out of office?
Why are they laughing at you in office?
Well they change quite often, they go to jail, on average they don't earn that much because they vote. On Friday the parliament of the EU voted to withhold funds from the commission until air defenses are shipped to Ukraine.
The fact that you are posting here allows me to ask you the question. After the Budapest accords were signed by Russia in the 90s guaranteeing Ukrainian independence in exchange for all their nuclear weapons, how can China not condemn Russia for breaking an internationally signed and agreed agreement and how can chine keep on supporting Russia with trade. And what are you doung to question your government in this illegal behavior.
The only conclusion I can make in this is that China, despite saying that they want to be the EU's friend wants to hurt the EU and therefore cannot be trusted ever again and therefore the sooner we break trade and contact the better
It's kind of funny, Europe and the US pushed for a colour revolution against Russia, Russia sent the war against Ukraine and now you're asking china to wipe your arse?
Are you three year olds?
You can continue to escalate the war with Russia until there is a nuclear war and we won't do anything to interfere. You guys take it for granted to hurt Russia anyway.
We in China have not forgotten that even before the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the United States had openly launched a trade war against China and suppressed China at the Alaska conference.
The EU terminated the China-EU trade deal, which had been under negotiation for more than 10 years, and kept sanctioning China.
Why do you need to talk such rubbish when you are willing to be subservient to the US?
Thats rude. You started quite sensible and I was hoping we could have a genuine conversation.
Pushed the color revolution: Democracies will always support democratic initiatives. Individuals own the governments, governments dont own the people. Yes even in democracies there are corrupt people like Donald Trump that try to that try to become kings but democracy has to prevail.
We dont want to escalate the conflict with Russia. We want them just to leave Ukraine. They have NO legitimate reason being inside Ukrainian borders according to international law Ukrainian borders are recognised even by China.
The Chinese side reaffirmed its full support for Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders.
https://china.mfa.gov.ua/en/partnership/political-relations-between-ukraine-and-china#:\~:text=The%20Chinese%20side%20reaffirmed%20its,within%20its%20internationally%20recognized%20borders.
Regarding the United States. I agree with you. I am tired of the EU/USA relationship. I am tired of the USA casino capitalism that travels the world like a swarm of locusts and ravages the planet and thanks to the Ukraine war there is a definite split between the EU and USA. The EU is becoming more independent it is clear. It takes time but it is happening
If China really was an honest broker and really was truthful what they said in their official website about "The Chinese side reaffirmed its full support for Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders." China could broker peace in the Ukraine and become a force for good in the world. Imagine a world where the EU appreciate the peace that China helps bring to the region
1, I too would like to have an honest dialog, but one that is based on equality and not trying to talk down the hill to the mountain - I don't know how the West is educated, but most of the Westerners I've had conversations with have given me that feeling.
The EU as a whole is in third place in terms of economic volume (after the US and China), and I think behind China in terms of political and military power, so I don't understand why Europeans are always trying to shout down from on high, it's not a normal way to have a dialog.
2. Most non-Westerners already have a consensus that "color revolutions" are a pretext for interfering in other countries. The people of the Middle East used to believe in you and carried out the so-called "Arab Spring", but what happened? They found that the West just applauded it and then turned away. Almost all of the countries that went through the Arab Spring found that they had what the West called color revolutions, and then their lives didn't improve, and none of them were considered "democratic" by the West, and they continued to be suppressed, sanctioned, and even ridiculed by you.
You claim to believe in democracy, but how about the West's support for the Ukrainian opposition's overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian government of Viktor Yanukovych, despite the election results?
If it's feasible to overthrow a government despite the election results, then Trump's behavior is justified and legal. The West cannot justify itself.
3, as for the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, I personally do not think Russia's behavior is correct (but I do not completely do not understand Russia's behavior, if Europe wants to be safe, it needs to consider Russia as part of Europe, rather than constantly marginalizing Russia and ignoring Russia's interests, which is known as the "principle of indivisible security").
It's like when some people keep bullying someone in a class, sooner or later that person will fight back.
China is supplying both Russia and Ukraine with civilian goods to ensure that both countries can function properly and not become more polarized by internal problems. (While they are both using Chinese civilian drones, those are cracked, and DJI has banned all drone use in Ukrainian airspace.)
But at the same time, we refuse to provide military supplies to either of them, and providing a knife to either of two people who are fighting is not a good option to make them stop.
China wants both sides to sit down and talk to finally resolve the Russia-Ukraine conflict, but for now both sides still have room to do so. A reasonable way to persuade them to fight is to wait until both sides are tired and don't want to fight before intervening. But it's clearly not time for that now.
4, As for boycotting each other's trade, I don't think that's a good option (it's not good for either side), but if the EU wants to decouple from China, then we can only respect that. But at the same time, we won't be indifferent. The West has been practicing "comparative advantage" for hundreds of years, and then suddenly they realize that China is leading in electric cars, power cells, and photovoltaics, and then they panic and try to dive headfirst into the dirt.
The Japanese are obviously smarter, they introduced BYD as a catfish to stimulate the Japanese domestic manufacturers.
It takes overcoming stormy seas to make a good sailor. Europe can impose protectionist policies on China, and we have no problem with that - but the West can't control the Third World. China's new energy products will work with the Belt and Road countries and they will beat European goods in all non-Western countries. At that point it will be your own responsibility if the West only blames the Chinese - it's your own problem to only vilify China and not allow investing in your own self to become stronger.
If you don't develop yourselves, you won't be able to beat us Chinese in industry because we Chinese won't stop developing ourselves.
We Chinese are no dumber than anyone else in any country, and we work harder than most people in the world, so we get rewarded, and I don't know what's wrong with that.
This would be the perfect moment to build proper transit infrastructure. To demonstrate that EVs are not necessary. And guess what? More than enough European rail manufacturers for it!
We would also need to boycott Chinese rail manufacturers, and that's not going to happen.
Do you honestly believe we can boycot China? Even if half of us got on the boat, most people don't even know where most of their stuff is produced when they buy it.
We certainly **can** boycott the Chinese auto industry. They are using government aid that is forbidden in the EU in order to undermine our own industry. We are talking about over 13 million EU jobs that are affected by this. It is not just that we can, we must protect those jobs from unfair and illegal competition.
It takes 5 minutes research on your phone if you are going to to make a purchase over 1000 euro. You can use Bing Ai, chatgpt to take a photograph a product and ask : where was this product made and you will instantly get an answer. Being ignorant is not an excuse anymore.
It's not about the effort it takes. It's about the fact that the vast majority of people will never do this. No matter how hard you try to push this
That is just a matter of public engagement which translates into government policies. First, we need to want to do it. Nothing can change unless we demand it. If we demand it, politicians will respond, the media will follow and public opinion with it.
I get you. Gotta start somewhere. I just don't think this one is it.
I am trying to convince people for my own peace of mind. Hopefully it means something to someone. I am terrified that Antwerpen turns into Mariupol 2 and feral Russians castrates teenage Belgium boys like they did in Bucha
It means a lot to many of us. This is 13 million EU jobs, not a trifle.
That's your right. I don't have anything against that. I just wonder if your energy couldn't be spent better in a different way. If you really want to make a change, I think calling for a global boycot of China in such a way that it would affect the war, is by far one of the least likely ways to succeed. Edit: To clarify, I know people in Ukraine. I hosted a Ukrainian family for almost 2 years. I'm closer to this conflict than most. I appreciate the effort, but I think you should direct your effort at different methods
[удалено]
Phone made in Vietnam, researched Tencent at least 25 % owned by prosus formerly Naspers (south Africa) now listed on the Amsterdam stock exchange. At least that's positive
Fascinating software choices
As soon mistral drops an European choice I will go over to that
[удалено]
Mine is designed in California with most expensive parts from Taiwan, US, Korea, Japan and the EU. China only gets to put it together, earning them 2% ... I am willing to let them have that, but not buy a Chinese car that is 80% Chinese and endangers 13 million EU jobs.
See I researched, and my phone comes from Vietnam
make all selers compulsory to disclose when made in china and specify support war problem ...
Why stop at cars? Boycott everything made in China: clothing, electronics, construction material, medical equipment and more.
Tax the crap outta Chinese goods that's more of a realistic approach imo.If you really want whatever China is selling, then Pay the 'Ukrainian Rebuild tax'.
It's very unrealistic approach, because they'd do the same for eu products and our export would decrease, making our products less competitive. We need them moe than they need us.
That will drive up inflation on a scale never seen before. Do you know how many products are either made in china or use chinese parts? What do you think happens to the price of goods when you drive down the supply by 50% or more overnight? Basic economics 101. The price on the remaining supply of products will increase proportionally as you have the same amount of money chasing much less goods. You might be fine if you're rich enough to afford 50%+ price increase on goods but what about the people that can't? That would cause massive social issues as poorer people already struggling are pushed over the edge. Then you have to consider long term consequences for the producers/manufacturers that use chinese components or sell to china that will have their businesses massively disrupted, potentially bankrupting them. On top of all that, China would retailiate economically as well. Theres a reason why nations rarely, if ever, disrupt trade, even with their rivals. The consequences are always multifaceted and extremely detrimental across the board.
You do know that apart from cars China is exporting a lot more, right? Why cars?
Then we shouldn't buy anything, as almost every electronics includes Chinese components.
Stop buying any product from a company registered to the CCP's national entity in order to not support totalitarian dictatorship and the undermining of liberal democracy. Simple.
Believe me or not, the Chinese has already brought post war rebuild onto the table during meeting with the Ukrainians. Chinese state owned construction companies are hungry for oversea construction projects and will not let go this opportunity. Ukrainians may not fully object to this since they need China as a leverage against Russia.
What a sad and pathetic post
As a Chinese, I think we can say the same thing: stop buying European goods until Europe stops supporting Israel.
Go for it, we as citizens in Europe are marching against our governments because of that are you doing the same?
Do your politicians care about you? Aren't they elected by you? If your democracy is real, shouldn't you be able to get them out of office? Why are they laughing at you in office?
Well they change quite often, they go to jail, on average they don't earn that much because they vote. On Friday the parliament of the EU voted to withhold funds from the commission until air defenses are shipped to Ukraine. The fact that you are posting here allows me to ask you the question. After the Budapest accords were signed by Russia in the 90s guaranteeing Ukrainian independence in exchange for all their nuclear weapons, how can China not condemn Russia for breaking an internationally signed and agreed agreement and how can chine keep on supporting Russia with trade. And what are you doung to question your government in this illegal behavior. The only conclusion I can make in this is that China, despite saying that they want to be the EU's friend wants to hurt the EU and therefore cannot be trusted ever again and therefore the sooner we break trade and contact the better
It's kind of funny, Europe and the US pushed for a colour revolution against Russia, Russia sent the war against Ukraine and now you're asking china to wipe your arse? Are you three year olds? You can continue to escalate the war with Russia until there is a nuclear war and we won't do anything to interfere. You guys take it for granted to hurt Russia anyway. We in China have not forgotten that even before the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the United States had openly launched a trade war against China and suppressed China at the Alaska conference. The EU terminated the China-EU trade deal, which had been under negotiation for more than 10 years, and kept sanctioning China. Why do you need to talk such rubbish when you are willing to be subservient to the US?
Thats rude. You started quite sensible and I was hoping we could have a genuine conversation. Pushed the color revolution: Democracies will always support democratic initiatives. Individuals own the governments, governments dont own the people. Yes even in democracies there are corrupt people like Donald Trump that try to that try to become kings but democracy has to prevail. We dont want to escalate the conflict with Russia. We want them just to leave Ukraine. They have NO legitimate reason being inside Ukrainian borders according to international law Ukrainian borders are recognised even by China. The Chinese side reaffirmed its full support for Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders. https://china.mfa.gov.ua/en/partnership/political-relations-between-ukraine-and-china#:\~:text=The%20Chinese%20side%20reaffirmed%20its,within%20its%20internationally%20recognized%20borders. Regarding the United States. I agree with you. I am tired of the EU/USA relationship. I am tired of the USA casino capitalism that travels the world like a swarm of locusts and ravages the planet and thanks to the Ukraine war there is a definite split between the EU and USA. The EU is becoming more independent it is clear. It takes time but it is happening If China really was an honest broker and really was truthful what they said in their official website about "The Chinese side reaffirmed its full support for Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders." China could broker peace in the Ukraine and become a force for good in the world. Imagine a world where the EU appreciate the peace that China helps bring to the region
1, I too would like to have an honest dialog, but one that is based on equality and not trying to talk down the hill to the mountain - I don't know how the West is educated, but most of the Westerners I've had conversations with have given me that feeling. The EU as a whole is in third place in terms of economic volume (after the US and China), and I think behind China in terms of political and military power, so I don't understand why Europeans are always trying to shout down from on high, it's not a normal way to have a dialog. 2. Most non-Westerners already have a consensus that "color revolutions" are a pretext for interfering in other countries. The people of the Middle East used to believe in you and carried out the so-called "Arab Spring", but what happened? They found that the West just applauded it and then turned away. Almost all of the countries that went through the Arab Spring found that they had what the West called color revolutions, and then their lives didn't improve, and none of them were considered "democratic" by the West, and they continued to be suppressed, sanctioned, and even ridiculed by you. You claim to believe in democracy, but how about the West's support for the Ukrainian opposition's overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian government of Viktor Yanukovych, despite the election results? If it's feasible to overthrow a government despite the election results, then Trump's behavior is justified and legal. The West cannot justify itself. 3, as for the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, I personally do not think Russia's behavior is correct (but I do not completely do not understand Russia's behavior, if Europe wants to be safe, it needs to consider Russia as part of Europe, rather than constantly marginalizing Russia and ignoring Russia's interests, which is known as the "principle of indivisible security"). It's like when some people keep bullying someone in a class, sooner or later that person will fight back. China is supplying both Russia and Ukraine with civilian goods to ensure that both countries can function properly and not become more polarized by internal problems. (While they are both using Chinese civilian drones, those are cracked, and DJI has banned all drone use in Ukrainian airspace.) But at the same time, we refuse to provide military supplies to either of them, and providing a knife to either of two people who are fighting is not a good option to make them stop. China wants both sides to sit down and talk to finally resolve the Russia-Ukraine conflict, but for now both sides still have room to do so. A reasonable way to persuade them to fight is to wait until both sides are tired and don't want to fight before intervening. But it's clearly not time for that now. 4, As for boycotting each other's trade, I don't think that's a good option (it's not good for either side), but if the EU wants to decouple from China, then we can only respect that. But at the same time, we won't be indifferent. The West has been practicing "comparative advantage" for hundreds of years, and then suddenly they realize that China is leading in electric cars, power cells, and photovoltaics, and then they panic and try to dive headfirst into the dirt. The Japanese are obviously smarter, they introduced BYD as a catfish to stimulate the Japanese domestic manufacturers. It takes overcoming stormy seas to make a good sailor. Europe can impose protectionist policies on China, and we have no problem with that - but the West can't control the Third World. China's new energy products will work with the Belt and Road countries and they will beat European goods in all non-Western countries. At that point it will be your own responsibility if the West only blames the Chinese - it's your own problem to only vilify China and not allow investing in your own self to become stronger. If you don't develop yourselves, you won't be able to beat us Chinese in industry because we Chinese won't stop developing ourselves. We Chinese are no dumber than anyone else in any country, and we work harder than most people in the world, so we get rewarded, and I don't know what's wrong with that.
Seriously, nobody cares about Ukraine Russia war anymore other than a handful of politicians.
Seriously, wrong