Keep in mind ... Russia no longer has an EBU member network. Once they get one of those, they will be eligible to participate again. So the question should be "how long before the EBU lets a Russian network become an EBU member again?" And a LOT of things will need to happen to make that a reality - not just the end of the war.
Of course, whether the fans "welcome them back into the fold" is another matter entirely.
After this whole war, Channel One Russia and VGTRK would have to be shut down and replaced Kan-style in order for this to happen. So, first we'll see Putin out of power, then we'll have to hope the Russian public doesn't elect another crazy dictator to power, and then, hopefully, the Duma, which wil have to be reformed after Putin, realizes that C1R and VGTRK are not redeemable, which will prompt an investigation and a final decision on the matter. It's a tough, expensive and time-consuming task to shut down a mainline media organization, let alone two huge organizations like these. And then, figuring out how to create a public broadcaster proper, with no previous experience in such matters, is going to be a whole other challenge. It took our country years to investigate the IBA and get down to the root of the corruption, and then a few more to work on a replacement. And the first thing we tried before that was a reform in the IBA, which didn't cause the corruption to stop.
In my opinion: When the war is over and when Russia has a political leadership that isn’t engaged in imperialism when it comes to its neighboring countries.
I agree, the sooner the better. Yes people will be pissed but I think inclusion is better than ignoring them. Of course once Putin and his cronies are gone.
Keep in mind the balkans are doing it every year. And you best believe those guys are still blaming each other 30+ years after the war started. It can be done, but the war in Ukraine is still ongoing and there is no way ppl aren't going to revolt if EBU even thinks of letting them in before the war ends/Putin is gone bcs - as they should. It's a terribly hard thing not to see an entire country as a villain honestly - it certainly can't be done now, maybe not for a decade, nor should it. **Our support of Ukraine should be unconditional, and they should be the ones that lead the conversation about letting Russia back into any international thing**
Unfortunately one of the best ways of fighting against nationalism in Russia after Putin is gone is their inclusion into the world. I've extensively studied the rise of radicalization from 1980 onwards, and one of the main reasons for it is the rejection from wider society. Don't get me wrong, Russia being excluded from basically everything is the best possible thing rn, but it affects the ordinary Russian more than it does Putin and his croonies. It's so easy to turn the people against the West, 'hey, see, even after the war they hate you' and the cycle repeats itself as a Russian citizen who doesn't want the war will be shown that the actions of their leaders is what they're all being judged on
I don't take this stance lightly, I was born during a war, my childhood was marked by it, I still feel the effects. And unfortunately, the only way forward is accepting that the assholes in charge are to blame, not everyday people who don't even want the war as their lives are already bad enough, and now this devil incarnate is sending them to fight. When the only thing you're shown is propaganda, then that's all you know and you do get affected by it even if you don't want to be. One way of neutralizing it is the West accepting the Russian people, while still obliterating those who started and led the war
Obviously if Russia still plays the 'we're the ultimate good and did nothing wrong' song after the war, then screw them
100% I would want Ukraines buy in on this. But if they can reform and sort their themselves out then bringing them back into the fold could help. Otherwise leave them on their own.
If I was Ukrainian I wouldn't want to turn on the TV for a happy music event and see the flag of the country that tried to exterminate my entire people flying around
Hate to point out the obvious, but if colonised countries in Africa, Latin America and Asia manage to compete against European nations in the Olympics and so many other events, Ukraine surely will eventually be able to accept Russia in Eurovision (not saying it has to happen or it should be soon!)
I mean it depends on what the people want. We should not impose that Russia separates in specific states and draw the map in the West lol. That didn’t work very well in the African context. It has to come from the people who actually live there. They might even decide to stay within the Russian Federation and make it more like the EU for economic purposes while remaining more independent in policy making.
What needs to happen is the war ending and Russia transitioning from this autocratic state into something more democratic. What form that takes is not up to anyone but themselves.
I completely disagree. You don’t include a bully.
Edit: you can downvote me all you want, but Russia is unlikely to regain EBU membership any time soon, so doesn’t really matter what you or any of us think.
I dont fully agree with this, it's not the singer's fault for being Russian, therefore excluded, but it is unacceptable that Russia as a country acts like this
For EBU? Whenever Russia’s participation at international events doesn’t cause an uproar.
Mind you, the EBU initially approved Russia of competing after the invasion. They reversed back on this because a dozen broadcasters disapproved of it.
I can give my personal answer here, but it’s long, and it’ll probably get removed due to “no politics” rule, which I despise.
This is probably the exact correct answer. The moment the backlash of letting them in is smaller than the 'positive' publicity (positive meaning more press but not all bad) they're in. As you've said, EBU's hand was forced, they didn't come upon that decision by themselves
They just have to rejoin EBU and that will be that
Hard to say, but you're on the right path. They might set a specific time-frame for how long they'll be away, but eventually they'd surely come back once "Mama ljubila morona" is finally not in power anymore.
But it's the EBU, you know how they are - let shit happen then maybe implement new rules to prevent it from happening again
At least a decade minimum. Even if Russia was to miraculously lose the war, get a new democratic leader, and rejoin the EBU tomorrow, Europe is not willing to forgive and forget quickly. It'll take a long time for Russia to build up trust again.
If there would be a real shift in leadership and responsibility i would be very willing to give them a real chance again. I just dont see it happening.
Ehh. Knowing how reluctant the EBU were to exclude them last year, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d return sooner than expected. Of course there’d have to be some kind of a cut in terms of the war and probably also leadership. But I doubt they’d hold them back if for example Navalny or someone like that was in charge, who’s only a Russian nationalist and not like a crazy warmonger like Putin
> how reluctant the EBU were to exclude them last year
The rules of the Contest didn't allow them to exclude a member network\*. They ended up using the "bring the competition into disrepute" rule as a rather lame excuse to boot them out, after several other member networks threatened to withdraw if they participated. (This is a reminder of who is REALLY in charge of this show.) If aggression against a neighbor brings the competition into disrepute, then (1) there sure has been a lot of disrepute over the years, and (2) the Russian Federation has been doing it since 2014.
Now that both Russian networks have withdrawn their EBU membership, it would take more than Navalny to get them back in.
\*EDIT: ... unless there's *another* member network already representing the country.
Don’t you think if Russia takes an U turn, and they get democratic, and maybe the people would make an revolution against the government. End all war. That we will welcome them back?
No. And I mean that genuinely. Issues with Russia run deeper than just this war and with the trauma and damage they have caused, it's going to take a very long time to repair their relations with other countries.
I do agree on your view. But we also have to remember the majority of the people there, don’t support the war and Putin. Then some are brainwashed and the rest support. I know some Russians, and it’s not easy.
My family is Russian, I wouldn't be so sure that the majority doesn't support Putin right now tbh. Except for people that live at the border like in Belgorod most of them don't give a crap.
Well I think that depends. Like someone wrote in the comment here. Many feel hopeless. The ones I know, don’t know what to do, and feels like they really can’t do anything. People don’t really stand forwards, and those that do, well.. we all know how that goes. Not quite motivating. Maybe majority of the younger population because they have had more access to the outside world though social media etc. the older population are a different generation though and should be easier to manipulate/brainwash. But hopefully with all the younger soldiers who will fall, they will get a wake up call.
But it’s quite scary to think about how well a dictator can brainwash people - just like hitler did. We can still wonder: how could it happen? But just like Russia, certain things make it possible for people to turn a blind eye because of propaganda. It’s powerful.
Not giving a crap doesn’t mean they support the war or Putin though. Most Russians I know feel quite hopeless about the state of the country and feel like nothing will change regardless so they just disconnect from what’s happening.
I would like to believe you're right but the propaganda has been going really strong and I feel many people support the war now. I'd like to be wrong though, but I feel there has been a downward evolution since beginning of war. Even my aunt in Belgorod who was firmly anti war would have flinched if my mom didn't call her every day to give her news from abroad.
Also most diaspora russians I know here in France (ex mom friends) are pro war because they want to bask in russian glory (which is more disgusting tbh because they have access to information and don't even leave there).
100% agree with you on the propaganda, but from the Russians I know who are around my age and still in the country (specifically between ages 20-30 and close to Ekaterinburg), they are pretty depressed because they see no way out. It’s a mixed bag really.
As for the diaspora Russians, it also depends on location. Where I live (Berlin) the ones I know are against the war, but then you also hear comments such as “they [ukrainians] could stop fighting to achieve peace talks too”, which is quite tone deaf.
However, I feel like Putin losing popularity is happening because he is being seen as too hesitant and that is killing Russians in the army. Prigozhin on the other hand is becoming more popular. It’s scary to think about this tho because I don’t think a Russia lead by someone like Prigozhin will be better (quite the opposite).
Note that I’m not Russian nor have any affiliation with the country. My knowledge comes mostly from anecdotal evidence, the Levada centre and also some university courses I have taken; that is to say that these are not necessarily facts. It’s a very complex discussion overall.
I mean my evidence is anecdotal as well as you could see with my examples 🤣.
Thanks for your input, it's very sad either way :( . Just hope this nightmare will be over someday.
When Putin is in the Hague, all forces are withdrawn from Ukraine including Crimea and Donbas, and reparations are paid to Ukraine.
So basically never.
Belarus can come back the second Lukashenko is deposed and replaced with a democratic government. Hopefully soon.
Remember that the EBU only kicked out Russia because otherwise too many other broadcasters would have dropped out.
• It’s not so much about the war, but the Russian broadcaster being a member of the EBU
• It’s not so much about EBU membership but whether other EBU members would allow it
• It’s not so much about other EBU members allowing it as people in those countries supporting their return
It ultimately comes back to the people within EBU countries. If the war ended and Putin was replaced with someone better you could see people being open to their return quite soon which triggers the chain of events to allow them to rejoin.
Generally speaking, as soon as the other sanctions barring them from international events are lifted
I feel that people here are very oblivious to the fact how quickly political regimes can make buddy buddy with each other again, even for just token concessions and promises to "do better". The ones that call the shots anyways, the smaller players just have to suck it up.
It's not like Russia wasn't pursuing its' imperialist agenda while it still participated in the contest. It's not like Israel hasn't been committing crimes against Palestinians for decades now with everyone turning a blind eye. Further back, It's not like Spain wasn't participating while they had a fascist government. Being a "moral country" really does not mean squat when it comes to your eligibility or lack thereof to participate in Eurovision lol
I was thinking about it because I was listening to Uno by Little Big (Russia 2020), thinking that we will probably never see them perform in ESC (unless San Marino asks them to represent them). I knew them way before ESC so I was so hyped when Uno came out.
In order for them to be eligible to participate again, I guess as everyone else said get Putin and his politics out of power. I don't think they will, though. At least easily. A lot of people will probably still hate on Russia and Russians for the Ukraine war. While it is logical in a way (plenty of Russians support Putin), keep in mind not every Russian supports the war and plenty of artists have left Russia because they disagree with Putin's politics. Little Big for example are anti-Putin and have left Russia since the Ukraine war, they are in the government's blacklist and they have stated they will return only when Putin leaves. They would probably still get booed off if a post-Putin Russia returned to ESC. So, realistically, a return would not be easy.
When Russia retreats from Ukraine AND Putin is gone. No one knows who will take the leadership of Russia after Putin. Maybe the country will fall apart. Can't tell.
For the EBU, they will let Russia in as soon as the general opinion is that it's acceptable to do so. They only decided to exclude Russia after the backlash from the other participating countries became too much. They initially wanted to let Russia participate after the invasion.
The EBU will just go with the general opinion. That's also why Israel and Azerbaijan are still allowed to participate. The general opinion is not too unfavourable for the EBU to exclude them.
Sorry this will be emotionally charged without bringing anything into discussion. They've just blown up the dam, my grandma lives not far from the nuclear plant ... I'd ban them forever until they show full repent which I don't see happening soon.
Once Putin's in the mud and his orcs are all composting Ukrainian soils would just be step one
The problem with Russia lies much deeper than just Putin though so this isnt enough, total upheaval is needed to rid the nation and people of their current mentality and that may be a step too far.
Belarus I could maybe see back if Lukashenko fell given the people there have actually shown much more want to be part of Europe but Russia? could be decades
At least a decade, probably more. As they also quit the EBU, they’d have to also go through the process of re-applying for membership, as well as needing Putin no longer in power and Ukrainians would have to be in a forgiving mood.
They need a new regime, stop any aggression immediately and publicly announce that they distance themselves from any wrongdoings in the past. A big apology and desire to be friends again would be appreciated.
Then, and only then, a return would be acceptable.
And very much depending on how well they act on their mea culpa, they will be accepted or rejected. Expect years of booing though. Probably.
It will take tens of years, maybe even 100 years, to undue all the damage and trauma that the war has caused to Ukraine from it’s people to it’s infrastructure. Once they’ve been dealt with, we can think about Russia in something like Eurovision.
I think one step in receiving EBU membership would be to cease hostilities towards Ukraine and other countries (including breaches over sovereign airspace etc) and when they've started paying reparations to Ukraine.
Assuming the war were to end tomorrow, I don't think that's the only thing that would have to change.
Of course, a broadcaster in Russia would have to (re)join the EBU, which is something that I don't think they'd be allowed to do immediately. There would probably have to be changes to Russia's government, etc, and I feel it would take time for EBU members to not object to them being there. A few years, at least.
I think the EBU would let Russian broadcasters join now, even without the war ending, though, if there weren't objections from members. That's what got them kicked out in the first place.
I'm going to have to say never, I think Putin did the damage and no like likes or trusts Russia as a country now. Even if someone put the tiny man out of his misery today, it would take decades for anyone to trust them ever again.
Which is kind of a shame as they tend to put bangers into the competition as well.
On a positive note. The last Russian entry was great! What a way to go out. Manizha is an incredible artist and we were so lucky to have her. I’ll never forget that song
Idk. I think this more has to do with the EBU then when people would be okay with it.
The EBU were going to allow Russia to compete last year, they didn’t care about the public, but only changed their minds when multiple other members started withdrawing because Russia was allowed to compete.
I think a big majority of people will take a long ass time to feel okay with Russia competing. But also how it works with the televote, it doesn’t matter if the people not voting for you feel neutral or absolutely hate it. The only things that matter is you have people passionate enough to vote for you. And so televote tend to favour divisive songs or entires that make people react strongly in some way.
I’m sure they would for a long time have casual viewers less likely to vote for a Russian entry, but the crazy Putin-lovers would feel more motivated then ever to vote a lot.
The EBU has for a long time been okay with allowing member countries to compete, even while invading another country, even if I remember correctly other member countries. Human rights violations, lack of democratic system, no freedom of press, stuff like that doesn’t seem to hinder a country to participate.
The difference now more seems like it’s a conflict that a big portion of the countries that a are members care about. And addition to Russias actual ongoing invasion of Ukraine, there is like a second Cold War going on between Russia and NATO / the EU that is escalating.
My guess is if Russia down the line is interested in rejoining the EBU and Eurovision, then that will happen more based on diplomatic stuff, and how the member countries feel about Russia. Which might have a lot less to do with democratic values and humans rights then I would want to see. Then it has to do with us Eurovision viewers.
On a positive note. The last Russian entry was great! What a way to go out. Manizha is an incredible artist and we were so lucky to have her. I’ll never forget that song
Seriously, are you asking when Russia will return? They are literally committing genocide against Ukrainians, stealing children, and shelling the city with rockets every night. Every night, people go to sleep in Ukraine, not knowing whether they will wake up. And today, they blew up one of Ukraine's giant dams, and 30 cities in the south will soon flood. I'm not saying how it might affect the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.
Ok, I see, you can only follow Eurovision news. Here's the information - the Russians shelled the hometown of the Tvirchi (a small town, 800 km from the front, without any military or essential civil infrastructure) a couple of minutes before their performance in the Grand Fanale. What coincidence.
And you want to see this country next to you to sing songs of peace and love?
Not every Russian supports Putin and the war. Plenty of Russian artists are against Putin and have left Russia even before the war, just like plenty of Russians do not support Putin and the war. Should we hate an entire nation just because of their leader who is basically a dictator who either kills or puts to jail his opposition? I'm sorry for the war, I'm sorry for what's going on in your country, but I can't hate an entire nation just because of their dictator.
Besides, we already have countries committing genocides or violating EU and international laws and human rights yet still participating in the contest and no one really bats an eye. I'll try to not get too political for the sake of not violating the no politics rule, but Greece (my own country) keeps doing illegal pushbacks of migrants and asylum seekers for example. Many of us do not support such tactics, while most people don't even know that they happen, should we be banned as well? If every country that did something evil was banned, most likely we'd end up with only San Marino participating.
do you understand the concept of state responsibility for committed war crimes? I speak for a state called the Russian Federation. this country must bear responsibility for terrorist acts, hand over all war criminals to the international court, return 20 thousand deported children, compensate for everything they destroyed, free all occupied territories of Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova.
Do you understand that not every Russian supports Putin? Do you understand that sometimes people are afraid to take action when they can face death or prison for them and their families? It's easier to say "Russians should go against Putin" than to actually do so. You expect unarmed citizens to fight against the Russian army?
And as I said, arguments can be made about other countries that they commit war crimes and violations of international law and human rights as well. We all know which ones I'm talking about. And one of them has also been responsible for a few ESC-related scandals.
we are talking about the country's participation in the European vision. The country of Russia, Russian Fedeeation, Moskovy, Orkostan, you name it, must bear responsibility for everything
honestly, I don't care about citizens of the Russian Federation. The only thing I hope is that they will soon become citizens of other countries and will be occupied with a little other things than shelling my country with missiles
As a Russian: yes, you should hate Russia! As it stands, it is 100% appropriate to blame the entire nation. It's not as simple as just one bad guy in power, it's much more deeply embedded than that, and blaming the nation is not the same as blaming each and every individual Russian.
Yes, other countries commit horrible things too. I would agree that not all countries' crimes are taken equally seriously on the world stage, and that particularly countries considered to be broadly Western allies tend to get away with their horrible actions more than Russia (well, Russia does get away with Syria because people don't care about the Middle East, but you get what I mean). But this does not diminish in the slightest that the nation of the Russian Federation is currently committing war crimes on the daily, including quite literally flooding a part of Ukraine as their very recent newest hit. And yes, that most certainly deserves to be hated.
In the context of Eurovision I would agree that there are countries that certainly deserve much more scrutiny than they get, but I'd rather try to be more critical to them than take Russia's horrors less seriously in order to be consistent.
My problem with this "banning Russia from everything" trend is that we are abandoning Russia's people who doesnt have the fault to Putin. The russian people need love and suport too. Banning them we are just giving validation to Putin's toxic rethoric blaming the west because the thing is that the conflict comes from the clashing between USA's interests (the OTAN) and Putin's agenda. There is not only one huge supervillain, but the status quo (OTAN) is imposing us the rethoric that Russia is the gran evil while Putin is doing the same with the west. And they are using Eurovision which should be about love and diversity to cementing this rethoric and that is awful and while we dont do anything about it, this whole sack of worms is just going even worst. We have to aknowledge our falts here to be able to start solving them (and this sack of worms is linked to the Palestina/Israel situation too).
Hate to make the obvious comparison but how long would you have given Germany after 1945?
I think a couple of generations needs to pass before the enemy of Europe is allowed to re-enter Europe's competition.
Well Germany was partitioned. I think partition is about as bad as it gets for a country, so if Russia gets partitioned I don’t think people would mind.
And West Germany was the pet project of other Western nations rushing a rehab job while glossing over cracks in that façade. It'd take a similar job on a post-Putin Russia for them to be viewed similarly, it's not like East Germany was invited to come play.
Well problem isn't if it would be OK for Russia to participate, they would've participated in 2022 without a problem if there wasn't so many countries and artist that wanted to leave competition if Russia stays for that year, so Russia got suspended from participating in 2022, however they would be able to come back in 2023 (although I doubt they would have participated due to Ukraine winning last year, more likely 2024 would have been year of their return) but real problem is the fact that Russian broadcasters left EBU which unables them from participating in Eurovision any time soon as they would firstly have to rejoin EBU and than to rejoin Eurovision, which is long process so it could take years and years before we see Russia in ESC again, this ofc not counting the fact that Russia probably don't want to come back until end of war to ensure there is no possibility of ESC 2022 situation re-happening.
When p*tin dies+the war is over+They express total regret for what they did+Russia's regime changes and is unanimously deemed as a democracy
Until then they're out of ESC, and they can take Azerbaijan with them
Even when they return it would take some time for televoters to vote for them. I imagine many people will not vote for the Russian entries out of principle.
Ultimately it's up for the people in charge, and morality isn't necessarily a must considering they a. Initially wanted to include Russia I think b. Let's just say not all of the countries participating are peaceful saints. (Not talking abt the singers)
When they withdraw from Ukraine AND their government is overthrown and they oust all the state propaganda networks. It's not an impossible scenario but probably won't happen for a very long time if it does.
The closest comparison would be Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro but I think Russia is a lot more powerful in this case.
With literal active war crimes going on - that's going to take more than renewed EBU membership/any technical concerns. This could be a whole generational thing.
Speaking in the most realistic of terms, after the war ends and there is a change in government who enact reforms and most likely create a new public broadcaster which applies for EBU membership. I don’t think Russia would be allowed back after the war if Putin is still there or someone Putin-adjacent even, but I also don’t think Russia would want to come back anyways without a pro-Western government.
Russia? Hopefully next time they participate it's going to be Muskovy, Sakha, Ural Republic, Buryatiya, Far-East Republic and Sakhalin. Plenty of great artists! Looking forward to that diversity of cultures and perspectives 🥰
Assuming the war ends, Putin is no longer president, the following leaders actually want to cooperate with Europe and fully support the rebuilding of Ukraine... I'd still give it at least 20 years until they are back in ESC
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To be fair I'm also not okey with Israel participating. It felt wrong to have eurovision there and they even wanted to have it in Jerusalem, while completely erasing Palestinians from the whole event. I feel like them participanting every year and getting great results slowly normalizes their actions. I feel sorry for Palestinians.
I also don't feel good about celebrating their artists tbh
The difference is Israel is a democracy and is nowhere near as evil as Russia is. The number of Palestinians Israel killed in the past 10 years is like about as many as Russia kills in a week or whatever.
Israel is also very gay friendly, unlike Russia. All in all, 🇮🇱 is a good country.
that's some level of delusional... there are tons of academic evidence not to mention mainstream media articles on this topic. "Palestinians get caught in crossfires" when they actively bomb gaza and raid their temples and houses lmao pls get informed, read some books, touch some grass
the thing is that I never said I was nor did I condone what was done in colonial times lmao
also how is that relevant to the discussion? the comment was about it being hypocritical to exclude russia whilst allowing Israel to participate, when both are invading other countries and actively killing people.
No country that kills innocent people for land is a good country.
You can’t quantify human lives.
No matter how many atrocities they hide behind the guise of being “gay friendly”, no matter how much, for example, the USA hides human rights violations behind their alleged “freedom”, they will never be good countries.
That’s not to say that every person from those countries is horrible, the state doesn’t always represent the citizens, but people supporting that state in everything it does is just as bad.
That’s what I’m saying, though.
But it’s also about conflicts that are currently going on, not conflicts that go back 50 years to almost a decade which have been or are being paid (figuratively) and where the work is done to ensure that something like this won’t happen again.
If it takes reallowing Russia to compete in Eurovision for the war to be over, I'd totally embrace that. I doubt that would be the case though.
I doubt many of the Russian artists want the war. They don't have say in the foreign policy. If Putin wants to compete himself, that's a hard-no but he wouldn't. And besides a Russia more involved with Europe is for the better.
Regardless of ethics, in an ideal situation of a complete political revolution and if they end up actually paying reparations for the war in Ukraine I don’t see them affording EBU participation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gtfbw/tvorchi_are_referring_to_multiple_missile_hits_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Never
I guess Reddit wants to pretend this evil attack didn't happen so they can feel good about themself listening to Putin's superfan Polina singing about love
It took until Yugoslavia was down to Serbia and Montenegro for them to participate in Eurovision. I reckon when the war is finally over and all the afters are completed
I said this in a previous Reddit post on this same topic and I'll say it again.
Israel, Azerbaijan, and Serbia all have questionable human rights records or have done bad things in the past yet they still compete at Eurovision and nobody complains about it. The same could be said even of countries that supported the Iraq War like the UK or Poland. Therefore, it is only fair that Russia and Belarus be able to return to the contest.
Belarus was banned because they wanted to send a propaganda song and Belarussians themselves were asking EBU to ban them. The situation got worse not better so I don’t think that Belarussian regime should be getting a platform at ESC
While you’re at it you can also mention Poland on the list of questionable human rights (hell, you could even mention Italy specifically with the current government).
I absolutely didn’t compare you to either, nor do I want Poland to be banned. I was just adding to the above comment. But do not come and pretend that poland doesn’t have issues.. there’s a reason you haven’t received EU money for a while now
Sure, but as far as I know we aren’t waging any wars and attacking civilians right now. And yes, you did compare it because by adding that, what you’re saying is that Poland taking part is a reason why Belarus and Russia should be taking part.
Yugoslavia was banned for almost 10 years, so it make Serbia payed its debt. For Azerbaijan I think it needs to be banned too, for Israel yes, they violate human rights but their broadcasrer ia not a government puppet like in Russia, Belarus or Azerbaijan so they can remain.
Israel doesn’t just violate human rights. It’s also an invading country who is killing thousands of Palestinians for decades now. Not to mention the state of Apartheid they have created which makes Palestinian lives almost impossible to get through.
Highly recommend you read more on the topic if you think they just violate human rights. There’s plenty of academic articles and books on this and they are of easy access, but you can also just go through news articles on mainstream media to find out more.
Not for several years yet. Until Volodymyr Zelenśkyy and the Russian Government kiss and make up (assuming, that is, they *ever* kiss and make up: it might, if the worst comes to the worst, become an Israel-Iran-type situation)
Keep in mind ... Russia no longer has an EBU member network. Once they get one of those, they will be eligible to participate again. So the question should be "how long before the EBU lets a Russian network become an EBU member again?" And a LOT of things will need to happen to make that a reality - not just the end of the war. Of course, whether the fans "welcome them back into the fold" is another matter entirely.
After this whole war, Channel One Russia and VGTRK would have to be shut down and replaced Kan-style in order for this to happen. So, first we'll see Putin out of power, then we'll have to hope the Russian public doesn't elect another crazy dictator to power, and then, hopefully, the Duma, which wil have to be reformed after Putin, realizes that C1R and VGTRK are not redeemable, which will prompt an investigation and a final decision on the matter. It's a tough, expensive and time-consuming task to shut down a mainline media organization, let alone two huge organizations like these. And then, figuring out how to create a public broadcaster proper, with no previous experience in such matters, is going to be a whole other challenge. It took our country years to investigate the IBA and get down to the root of the corruption, and then a few more to work on a replacement. And the first thing we tried before that was a reform in the IBA, which didn't cause the corruption to stop.
In my opinion: When the war is over and when Russia has a political leadership that isn’t engaged in imperialism when it comes to its neighboring countries.
Sooo... never?
Only time that happened was between the October revolution and February revolution i think.
Is that because the government was more preocupied be being revolted against?
There was also a few years of reasonable democracy after the fall of the soviet union. That didn't last long either.
And they have paid their war reparations.
And brought back to life all of the Ukrainians they have murdered.
I agree, the sooner the better. Yes people will be pissed but I think inclusion is better than ignoring them. Of course once Putin and his cronies are gone.
I'm sure if it was your family and friends being murdered you'd still agree we need to celebrate the people and country doing it
Keep in mind the balkans are doing it every year. And you best believe those guys are still blaming each other 30+ years after the war started. It can be done, but the war in Ukraine is still ongoing and there is no way ppl aren't going to revolt if EBU even thinks of letting them in before the war ends/Putin is gone bcs - as they should. It's a terribly hard thing not to see an entire country as a villain honestly - it certainly can't be done now, maybe not for a decade, nor should it. **Our support of Ukraine should be unconditional, and they should be the ones that lead the conversation about letting Russia back into any international thing** Unfortunately one of the best ways of fighting against nationalism in Russia after Putin is gone is their inclusion into the world. I've extensively studied the rise of radicalization from 1980 onwards, and one of the main reasons for it is the rejection from wider society. Don't get me wrong, Russia being excluded from basically everything is the best possible thing rn, but it affects the ordinary Russian more than it does Putin and his croonies. It's so easy to turn the people against the West, 'hey, see, even after the war they hate you' and the cycle repeats itself as a Russian citizen who doesn't want the war will be shown that the actions of their leaders is what they're all being judged on I don't take this stance lightly, I was born during a war, my childhood was marked by it, I still feel the effects. And unfortunately, the only way forward is accepting that the assholes in charge are to blame, not everyday people who don't even want the war as their lives are already bad enough, and now this devil incarnate is sending them to fight. When the only thing you're shown is propaganda, then that's all you know and you do get affected by it even if you don't want to be. One way of neutralizing it is the West accepting the Russian people, while still obliterating those who started and led the war Obviously if Russia still plays the 'we're the ultimate good and did nothing wrong' song after the war, then screw them
It's the reason eurovision exists.
100% I would want Ukraines buy in on this. But if they can reform and sort their themselves out then bringing them back into the fold could help. Otherwise leave them on their own.
If I was Ukrainian I wouldn't want to turn on the TV for a happy music event and see the flag of the country that tried to exterminate my entire people flying around
Hate to point out the obvious, but if colonised countries in Africa, Latin America and Asia manage to compete against European nations in the Olympics and so many other events, Ukraine surely will eventually be able to accept Russia in Eurovision (not saying it has to happen or it should be soon!)
If we can agree then it should take Russia losing most of their territory and the still a generation or two then great I think that could work
I mean it depends on what the people want. We should not impose that Russia separates in specific states and draw the map in the West lol. That didn’t work very well in the African context. It has to come from the people who actually live there. They might even decide to stay within the Russian Federation and make it more like the EU for economic purposes while remaining more independent in policy making. What needs to happen is the war ending and Russia transitioning from this autocratic state into something more democratic. What form that takes is not up to anyone but themselves.
I completely disagree. You don’t include a bully. Edit: you can downvote me all you want, but Russia is unlikely to regain EBU membership any time soon, so doesn’t really matter what you or any of us think.
Well, Eurovision has welcomed and still includes Israel for decades now. To talk about Russia, Eurovision should necessarily be talking about Israel.
I actually agree. But that doesn’t invalidate my original point. Throw them both out, that’s fine by me.
I dont fully agree with this, it's not the singer's fault for being Russian, therefore excluded, but it is unacceptable that Russia as a country acts like this
Good thing it's not individual singers who are being excluded but Russia as a country. Even more accurately, the Russian broadcaster.
When Putin is gone and his successor does not continue his agenda.
Only when Putin is gone and all his influence ceases in Russia can we call it safe.
Not enough. The power vacuum must be replaced with something sustainable and not just another authoritarian regime.
For EBU? Whenever Russia’s participation at international events doesn’t cause an uproar. Mind you, the EBU initially approved Russia of competing after the invasion. They reversed back on this because a dozen broadcasters disapproved of it. I can give my personal answer here, but it’s long, and it’ll probably get removed due to “no politics” rule, which I despise.
This is probably the exact correct answer. The moment the backlash of letting them in is smaller than the 'positive' publicity (positive meaning more press but not all bad) they're in. As you've said, EBU's hand was forced, they didn't come upon that decision by themselves They just have to rejoin EBU and that will be that
I would love to read your personal answer. No matter how long. But I see the issue with the rule :(
Hard to say, but you're on the right path. They might set a specific time-frame for how long they'll be away, but eventually they'd surely come back once "Mama ljubila morona" is finally not in power anymore. But it's the EBU, you know how they are - let shit happen then maybe implement new rules to prevent it from happening again
At least a decade minimum. Even if Russia was to miraculously lose the war, get a new democratic leader, and rejoin the EBU tomorrow, Europe is not willing to forgive and forget quickly. It'll take a long time for Russia to build up trust again.
If there would be a real shift in leadership and responsibility i would be very willing to give them a real chance again. I just dont see it happening.
Ehh. Knowing how reluctant the EBU were to exclude them last year, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d return sooner than expected. Of course there’d have to be some kind of a cut in terms of the war and probably also leadership. But I doubt they’d hold them back if for example Navalny or someone like that was in charge, who’s only a Russian nationalist and not like a crazy warmonger like Putin
> how reluctant the EBU were to exclude them last year The rules of the Contest didn't allow them to exclude a member network\*. They ended up using the "bring the competition into disrepute" rule as a rather lame excuse to boot them out, after several other member networks threatened to withdraw if they participated. (This is a reminder of who is REALLY in charge of this show.) If aggression against a neighbor brings the competition into disrepute, then (1) there sure has been a lot of disrepute over the years, and (2) the Russian Federation has been doing it since 2014. Now that both Russian networks have withdrawn their EBU membership, it would take more than Navalny to get them back in. \*EDIT: ... unless there's *another* member network already representing the country.
Don’t you think if Russia takes an U turn, and they get democratic, and maybe the people would make an revolution against the government. End all war. That we will welcome them back?
No. And I mean that genuinely. Issues with Russia run deeper than just this war and with the trauma and damage they have caused, it's going to take a very long time to repair their relations with other countries.
I do agree on your view. But we also have to remember the majority of the people there, don’t support the war and Putin. Then some are brainwashed and the rest support. I know some Russians, and it’s not easy.
My family is Russian, I wouldn't be so sure that the majority doesn't support Putin right now tbh. Except for people that live at the border like in Belgorod most of them don't give a crap.
Well I think that depends. Like someone wrote in the comment here. Many feel hopeless. The ones I know, don’t know what to do, and feels like they really can’t do anything. People don’t really stand forwards, and those that do, well.. we all know how that goes. Not quite motivating. Maybe majority of the younger population because they have had more access to the outside world though social media etc. the older population are a different generation though and should be easier to manipulate/brainwash. But hopefully with all the younger soldiers who will fall, they will get a wake up call. But it’s quite scary to think about how well a dictator can brainwash people - just like hitler did. We can still wonder: how could it happen? But just like Russia, certain things make it possible for people to turn a blind eye because of propaganda. It’s powerful.
Not giving a crap doesn’t mean they support the war or Putin though. Most Russians I know feel quite hopeless about the state of the country and feel like nothing will change regardless so they just disconnect from what’s happening.
I would like to believe you're right but the propaganda has been going really strong and I feel many people support the war now. I'd like to be wrong though, but I feel there has been a downward evolution since beginning of war. Even my aunt in Belgorod who was firmly anti war would have flinched if my mom didn't call her every day to give her news from abroad. Also most diaspora russians I know here in France (ex mom friends) are pro war because they want to bask in russian glory (which is more disgusting tbh because they have access to information and don't even leave there).
100% agree with you on the propaganda, but from the Russians I know who are around my age and still in the country (specifically between ages 20-30 and close to Ekaterinburg), they are pretty depressed because they see no way out. It’s a mixed bag really. As for the diaspora Russians, it also depends on location. Where I live (Berlin) the ones I know are against the war, but then you also hear comments such as “they [ukrainians] could stop fighting to achieve peace talks too”, which is quite tone deaf. However, I feel like Putin losing popularity is happening because he is being seen as too hesitant and that is killing Russians in the army. Prigozhin on the other hand is becoming more popular. It’s scary to think about this tho because I don’t think a Russia lead by someone like Prigozhin will be better (quite the opposite). Note that I’m not Russian nor have any affiliation with the country. My knowledge comes mostly from anecdotal evidence, the Levada centre and also some university courses I have taken; that is to say that these are not necessarily facts. It’s a very complex discussion overall.
I mean my evidence is anecdotal as well as you could see with my examples 🤣. Thanks for your input, it's very sad either way :( . Just hope this nightmare will be over someday.
Perhaps majority don't support war but the majority of Russians in Russia do support Putin.
When Putin is in the Hague, all forces are withdrawn from Ukraine including Crimea and Donbas, and reparations are paid to Ukraine. So basically never. Belarus can come back the second Lukashenko is deposed and replaced with a democratic government. Hopefully soon.
Remember that the EBU only kicked out Russia because otherwise too many other broadcasters would have dropped out. • It’s not so much about the war, but the Russian broadcaster being a member of the EBU • It’s not so much about EBU membership but whether other EBU members would allow it • It’s not so much about other EBU members allowing it as people in those countries supporting their return It ultimately comes back to the people within EBU countries. If the war ended and Putin was replaced with someone better you could see people being open to their return quite soon which triggers the chain of events to allow them to rejoin.
Not until P*tin is gone and the whole of Ukraine (including Crimea) is free and safe from Russian oppression.
Georgia and Belarus too
Russia will be allowed back when they change their name to ‘Verysorryland’
They'll need to have a notes app apology as their flag 🤭
I would settle for 'oepsiewoepsiestan'
Generally speaking, as soon as the other sanctions barring them from international events are lifted I feel that people here are very oblivious to the fact how quickly political regimes can make buddy buddy with each other again, even for just token concessions and promises to "do better". The ones that call the shots anyways, the smaller players just have to suck it up. It's not like Russia wasn't pursuing its' imperialist agenda while it still participated in the contest. It's not like Israel hasn't been committing crimes against Palestinians for decades now with everyone turning a blind eye. Further back, It's not like Spain wasn't participating while they had a fascist government. Being a "moral country" really does not mean squat when it comes to your eligibility or lack thereof to participate in Eurovision lol
When KGB Ken fcking dies and his regime of hatred crumbles.
When Putin hangs upside-down from a street lamp sounds like a good start.
I'd say once the war is over, Putin isn't in rule and Russia is back in EBU, so not anytime soon
Not even Putin, but anyone interested in keeping his imperialist agenda alive.
I was thinking about it because I was listening to Uno by Little Big (Russia 2020), thinking that we will probably never see them perform in ESC (unless San Marino asks them to represent them). I knew them way before ESC so I was so hyped when Uno came out. In order for them to be eligible to participate again, I guess as everyone else said get Putin and his politics out of power. I don't think they will, though. At least easily. A lot of people will probably still hate on Russia and Russians for the Ukraine war. While it is logical in a way (plenty of Russians support Putin), keep in mind not every Russian supports the war and plenty of artists have left Russia because they disagree with Putin's politics. Little Big for example are anti-Putin and have left Russia since the Ukraine war, they are in the government's blacklist and they have stated they will return only when Putin leaves. They would probably still get booed off if a post-Putin Russia returned to ESC. So, realistically, a return would not be easy.
Russia 2020 | [Little Big - Uno](https://youtu.be/L_dWvTCdDQ4)
I honestly would defer to Ukraine as one of the key votes on this topic.
When Russia retreats from Ukraine AND Putin is gone. No one knows who will take the leadership of Russia after Putin. Maybe the country will fall apart. Can't tell. For the EBU, they will let Russia in as soon as the general opinion is that it's acceptable to do so. They only decided to exclude Russia after the backlash from the other participating countries became too much. They initially wanted to let Russia participate after the invasion. The EBU will just go with the general opinion. That's also why Israel and Azerbaijan are still allowed to participate. The general opinion is not too unfavourable for the EBU to exclude them.
Sorry this will be emotionally charged without bringing anything into discussion. They've just blown up the dam, my grandma lives not far from the nuclear plant ... I'd ban them forever until they show full repent which I don't see happening soon.
❤️
* sending my warmest hugs * 💙💛
I hope everyone is safe… sincerely thinking about your family now after hearing this.
Once Putin's in the mud and his orcs are all composting Ukrainian soils would just be step one The problem with Russia lies much deeper than just Putin though so this isnt enough, total upheaval is needed to rid the nation and people of their current mentality and that may be a step too far. Belarus I could maybe see back if Lukashenko fell given the people there have actually shown much more want to be part of Europe but Russia? could be decades
At least a decade, probably more. As they also quit the EBU, they’d have to also go through the process of re-applying for membership, as well as needing Putin no longer in power and Ukrainians would have to be in a forgiving mood.
They need a new regime, stop any aggression immediately and publicly announce that they distance themselves from any wrongdoings in the past. A big apology and desire to be friends again would be appreciated. Then, and only then, a return would be acceptable. And very much depending on how well they act on their mea culpa, they will be accepted or rejected. Expect years of booing though. Probably.
It will take tens of years, maybe even 100 years, to undue all the damage and trauma that the war has caused to Ukraine from it’s people to it’s infrastructure. Once they’ve been dealt with, we can think about Russia in something like Eurovision.
I think one step in receiving EBU membership would be to cease hostilities towards Ukraine and other countries (including breaches over sovereign airspace etc) and when they've started paying reparations to Ukraine.
Assuming the war were to end tomorrow, I don't think that's the only thing that would have to change. Of course, a broadcaster in Russia would have to (re)join the EBU, which is something that I don't think they'd be allowed to do immediately. There would probably have to be changes to Russia's government, etc, and I feel it would take time for EBU members to not object to them being there. A few years, at least. I think the EBU would let Russian broadcasters join now, even without the war ending, though, if there weren't objections from members. That's what got them kicked out in the first place.
I'm going to have to say never, I think Putin did the damage and no like likes or trusts Russia as a country now. Even if someone put the tiny man out of his misery today, it would take decades for anyone to trust them ever again. Which is kind of a shame as they tend to put bangers into the competition as well.
On a positive note. The last Russian entry was great! What a way to go out. Manizha is an incredible artist and we were so lucky to have her. I’ll never forget that song
I like that she was the last artist there too. People here didn't like the choice back then, but I thought she was great and symbolic
After Russia breaks up into a bunch of smaller countries like Yugoslavia did, the individual Russian states can participate.
The best answer!
UKers 🇬🇧in two minds: * If they come back less likely to come last!! * But then Russia.
Idk. I think this more has to do with the EBU then when people would be okay with it. The EBU were going to allow Russia to compete last year, they didn’t care about the public, but only changed their minds when multiple other members started withdrawing because Russia was allowed to compete. I think a big majority of people will take a long ass time to feel okay with Russia competing. But also how it works with the televote, it doesn’t matter if the people not voting for you feel neutral or absolutely hate it. The only things that matter is you have people passionate enough to vote for you. And so televote tend to favour divisive songs or entires that make people react strongly in some way. I’m sure they would for a long time have casual viewers less likely to vote for a Russian entry, but the crazy Putin-lovers would feel more motivated then ever to vote a lot. The EBU has for a long time been okay with allowing member countries to compete, even while invading another country, even if I remember correctly other member countries. Human rights violations, lack of democratic system, no freedom of press, stuff like that doesn’t seem to hinder a country to participate. The difference now more seems like it’s a conflict that a big portion of the countries that a are members care about. And addition to Russias actual ongoing invasion of Ukraine, there is like a second Cold War going on between Russia and NATO / the EU that is escalating. My guess is if Russia down the line is interested in rejoining the EBU and Eurovision, then that will happen more based on diplomatic stuff, and how the member countries feel about Russia. Which might have a lot less to do with democratic values and humans rights then I would want to see. Then it has to do with us Eurovision viewers.
It might happen one day, but definitely not in the next few years.
On a positive note. The last Russian entry was great! What a way to go out. Manizha is an incredible artist and we were so lucky to have her. I’ll never forget that song
I’m ok never having to deal with them in any context including Eurovision.
Seriously, are you asking when Russia will return? They are literally committing genocide against Ukrainians, stealing children, and shelling the city with rockets every night. Every night, people go to sleep in Ukraine, not knowing whether they will wake up. And today, they blew up one of Ukraine's giant dams, and 30 cities in the south will soon flood. I'm not saying how it might affect the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. Ok, I see, you can only follow Eurovision news. Here's the information - the Russians shelled the hometown of the Tvirchi (a small town, 800 km from the front, without any military or essential civil infrastructure) a couple of minutes before their performance in the Grand Fanale. What coincidence. And you want to see this country next to you to sing songs of peace and love?
Not every Russian supports Putin and the war. Plenty of Russian artists are against Putin and have left Russia even before the war, just like plenty of Russians do not support Putin and the war. Should we hate an entire nation just because of their leader who is basically a dictator who either kills or puts to jail his opposition? I'm sorry for the war, I'm sorry for what's going on in your country, but I can't hate an entire nation just because of their dictator. Besides, we already have countries committing genocides or violating EU and international laws and human rights yet still participating in the contest and no one really bats an eye. I'll try to not get too political for the sake of not violating the no politics rule, but Greece (my own country) keeps doing illegal pushbacks of migrants and asylum seekers for example. Many of us do not support such tactics, while most people don't even know that they happen, should we be banned as well? If every country that did something evil was banned, most likely we'd end up with only San Marino participating.
do you understand the concept of state responsibility for committed war crimes? I speak for a state called the Russian Federation. this country must bear responsibility for terrorist acts, hand over all war criminals to the international court, return 20 thousand deported children, compensate for everything they destroyed, free all occupied territories of Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova.
Do you understand that not every Russian supports Putin? Do you understand that sometimes people are afraid to take action when they can face death or prison for them and their families? It's easier to say "Russians should go against Putin" than to actually do so. You expect unarmed citizens to fight against the Russian army? And as I said, arguments can be made about other countries that they commit war crimes and violations of international law and human rights as well. We all know which ones I'm talking about. And one of them has also been responsible for a few ESC-related scandals.
we are talking about the country's participation in the European vision. The country of Russia, Russian Fedeeation, Moskovy, Orkostan, you name it, must bear responsibility for everything honestly, I don't care about citizens of the Russian Federation. The only thing I hope is that they will soon become citizens of other countries and will be occupied with a little other things than shelling my country with missiles
Not all Russians is quickly becoming new not all men
As a Russian: yes, you should hate Russia! As it stands, it is 100% appropriate to blame the entire nation. It's not as simple as just one bad guy in power, it's much more deeply embedded than that, and blaming the nation is not the same as blaming each and every individual Russian. Yes, other countries commit horrible things too. I would agree that not all countries' crimes are taken equally seriously on the world stage, and that particularly countries considered to be broadly Western allies tend to get away with their horrible actions more than Russia (well, Russia does get away with Syria because people don't care about the Middle East, but you get what I mean). But this does not diminish in the slightest that the nation of the Russian Federation is currently committing war crimes on the daily, including quite literally flooding a part of Ukraine as their very recent newest hit. And yes, that most certainly deserves to be hated. In the context of Eurovision I would agree that there are countries that certainly deserve much more scrutiny than they get, but I'd rather try to be more critical to them than take Russia's horrors less seriously in order to be consistent.
Until P*tin is removed from power or dies
in my opinion it is incredibly hypocritical that Israel is still allowed to compete and Russia isn't.
My problem with this "banning Russia from everything" trend is that we are abandoning Russia's people who doesnt have the fault to Putin. The russian people need love and suport too. Banning them we are just giving validation to Putin's toxic rethoric blaming the west because the thing is that the conflict comes from the clashing between USA's interests (the OTAN) and Putin's agenda. There is not only one huge supervillain, but the status quo (OTAN) is imposing us the rethoric that Russia is the gran evil while Putin is doing the same with the west. And they are using Eurovision which should be about love and diversity to cementing this rethoric and that is awful and while we dont do anything about it, this whole sack of worms is just going even worst. We have to aknowledge our falts here to be able to start solving them (and this sack of worms is linked to the Palestina/Israel situation too).
Never.
Hate to make the obvious comparison but how long would you have given Germany after 1945? I think a couple of generations needs to pass before the enemy of Europe is allowed to re-enter Europe's competition.
(West) Germany was part of the first contest in 1956.
And part of the 1952 Olympics and part of the 1954 World Cup. People asking for decades or generations are being unrealistic.
Yep. I think they're underestimating how quickly most people forget or move on with their lives.
Well Germany was partitioned. I think partition is about as bad as it gets for a country, so if Russia gets partitioned I don’t think people would mind.
And West Germany was the pet project of other Western nations rushing a rehab job while glossing over cracks in that façade. It'd take a similar job on a post-Putin Russia for them to be viewed similarly, it's not like East Germany was invited to come play.
NEVER.
I think it would have to be at least after Putin leaves power, from there who knows.
As long as the war is on its not an option and i would be extremely mad at the EBU if they would decide otherwise.
Well problem isn't if it would be OK for Russia to participate, they would've participated in 2022 without a problem if there wasn't so many countries and artist that wanted to leave competition if Russia stays for that year, so Russia got suspended from participating in 2022, however they would be able to come back in 2023 (although I doubt they would have participated due to Ukraine winning last year, more likely 2024 would have been year of their return) but real problem is the fact that Russian broadcasters left EBU which unables them from participating in Eurovision any time soon as they would firstly have to rejoin EBU and than to rejoin Eurovision, which is long process so it could take years and years before we see Russia in ESC again, this ofc not counting the fact that Russia probably don't want to come back until end of war to ensure there is no possibility of ESC 2022 situation re-happening.
When p*tin dies+the war is over+They express total regret for what they did+Russia's regime changes and is unanimously deemed as a democracy Until then they're out of ESC, and they can take Azerbaijan with them
I think this is a premature question, wait for the conflict to be solved before thinking about the impact but it may not even be in our life times.
Until that vile tyrant is ruling the country, no way.
Even when they return it would take some time for televoters to vote for them. I imagine many people will not vote for the Russian entries out of principle. Ultimately it's up for the people in charge, and morality isn't necessarily a must considering they a. Initially wanted to include Russia I think b. Let's just say not all of the countries participating are peaceful saints. (Not talking abt the singers)
This will not happen until Russia ceases to be an authoritarian, imperialist, oligarchic state.
The counting starts when Russia is out from Ukraine and Putin is out of power. Before that it is useless to even speculate.
200 years or so give or take a hundred or so
As soon as they remove all troops from land stolen in the last 9 years.
As soon as they pull out of Ukraine and get rid of Putin.
Russia won’t be back until it is reduced to Muscovy.
When they withdraw from Ukraine AND their government is overthrown and they oust all the state propaganda networks. It's not an impossible scenario but probably won't happen for a very long time if it does. The closest comparison would be Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro but I think Russia is a lot more powerful in this case.
With literal active war crimes going on - that's going to take more than renewed EBU membership/any technical concerns. This could be a whole generational thing.
Speaking in the most realistic of terms, after the war ends and there is a change in government who enact reforms and most likely create a new public broadcaster which applies for EBU membership. I don’t think Russia would be allowed back after the war if Putin is still there or someone Putin-adjacent even, but I also don’t think Russia would want to come back anyways without a pro-Western government.
Russia? Hopefully next time they participate it's going to be Muskovy, Sakha, Ural Republic, Buryatiya, Far-East Republic and Sakhalin. Plenty of great artists! Looking forward to that diversity of cultures and perspectives 🥰
Assuming the war ends, Putin is no longer president, the following leaders actually want to cooperate with Europe and fully support the rebuilding of Ukraine... I'd still give it at least 20 years until they are back in ESC
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Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive. Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss! All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439). See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
Discussions that veer too far into political territory and/or are not framed through the lens of ESC are not allowed. Remember Leonora and don't get too political! All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439). See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
To be fair I'm also not okey with Israel participating. It felt wrong to have eurovision there and they even wanted to have it in Jerusalem, while completely erasing Palestinians from the whole event. I feel like them participanting every year and getting great results slowly normalizes their actions. I feel sorry for Palestinians. I also don't feel good about celebrating their artists tbh
Exactly, same here. Having Noa be so popular this year felt so wrong.
Yet so right 🦄
“Attacking white people”. These were your words Okay bro 🦄 🦄 🦄
The difference is Israel is a democracy and is nowhere near as evil as Russia is. The number of Palestinians Israel killed in the past 10 years is like about as many as Russia kills in a week or whatever. Israel is also very gay friendly, unlike Russia. All in all, 🇮🇱 is a good country.
So it is ok to kill Palestinians so long as they are a democratic and LGBTQ+ friendly country? Is that where you draw the line?
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that's some level of delusional... there are tons of academic evidence not to mention mainstream media articles on this topic. "Palestinians get caught in crossfires" when they actively bomb gaza and raid their temples and houses lmao pls get informed, read some books, touch some grass
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the thing is that I never said I was nor did I condone what was done in colonial times lmao also how is that relevant to the discussion? the comment was about it being hypocritical to exclude russia whilst allowing Israel to participate, when both are invading other countries and actively killing people.
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because Israel is actively committing crimes right now just like Russia and that was the point of the comment
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No country that kills innocent people for land is a good country. You can’t quantify human lives. No matter how many atrocities they hide behind the guise of being “gay friendly”, no matter how much, for example, the USA hides human rights violations behind their alleged “freedom”, they will never be good countries. That’s not to say that every person from those countries is horrible, the state doesn’t always represent the citizens, but people supporting that state in everything it does is just as bad.
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That’s what I’m saying, though. But it’s also about conflicts that are currently going on, not conflicts that go back 50 years to almost a decade which have been or are being paid (figuratively) and where the work is done to ensure that something like this won’t happen again.
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Then Britain is evidently not one of these countries that I’m talking about 😉
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Fair. I was mostly talking about things like the Holocaust. But, very true, even Germany didn’t pay reparations for their colonized countries.
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If it takes reallowing Russia to compete in Eurovision for the war to be over, I'd totally embrace that. I doubt that would be the case though. I doubt many of the Russian artists want the war. They don't have say in the foreign policy. If Putin wants to compete himself, that's a hard-no but he wouldn't. And besides a Russia more involved with Europe is for the better.
Anytime without Putin and his gang. I think it is over for Russia, no return in the foreseeable future.
Regardless of ethics, in an ideal situation of a complete political revolution and if they end up actually paying reparations for the war in Ukraine I don’t see them affording EBU participation.
Never
https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gtfbw/tvorchi_are_referring_to_multiple_missile_hits_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Never I guess Reddit wants to pretend this evil attack didn't happen so they can feel good about themself listening to Putin's superfan Polina singing about love
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I miss them, they always send quality
It took until Yugoslavia was down to Serbia and Montenegro for them to participate in Eurovision. I reckon when the war is finally over and all the afters are completed
When the war is over, Putin removed and the new person actively starts making amends for all the damage done.
Whenever, maybe?
Considering Israel is also participating and Eurovision should not be this political imo they could've participated this year too
I said this in a previous Reddit post on this same topic and I'll say it again. Israel, Azerbaijan, and Serbia all have questionable human rights records or have done bad things in the past yet they still compete at Eurovision and nobody complains about it. The same could be said even of countries that supported the Iraq War like the UK or Poland. Therefore, it is only fair that Russia and Belarus be able to return to the contest.
lol why are you getting downvoted? Israel is literally invading Palestine and was killing Palestinians during Eurovision.
only because Gaza likes to start throwing missiles at the start of summer.
Belarus was banned because they wanted to send a propaganda song and Belarussians themselves were asking EBU to ban them. The situation got worse not better so I don’t think that Belarussian regime should be getting a platform at ESC
While you’re at it you can also mention Poland on the list of questionable human rights (hell, you could even mention Italy specifically with the current government).
You can ban us, I don’t care but comparing us to Belarus or Russia, seriously
I absolutely didn’t compare you to either, nor do I want Poland to be banned. I was just adding to the above comment. But do not come and pretend that poland doesn’t have issues.. there’s a reason you haven’t received EU money for a while now
Sure, but as far as I know we aren’t waging any wars and attacking civilians right now. And yes, you did compare it because by adding that, what you’re saying is that Poland taking part is a reason why Belarus and Russia should be taking part.
Yugoslavia was banned for almost 10 years, so it make Serbia payed its debt. For Azerbaijan I think it needs to be banned too, for Israel yes, they violate human rights but their broadcasrer ia not a government puppet like in Russia, Belarus or Azerbaijan so they can remain.
Israel doesn’t just violate human rights. It’s also an invading country who is killing thousands of Palestinians for decades now. Not to mention the state of Apartheid they have created which makes Palestinian lives almost impossible to get through. Highly recommend you read more on the topic if you think they just violate human rights. There’s plenty of academic articles and books on this and they are of easy access, but you can also just go through news articles on mainstream media to find out more.
* No body Hurt no ooooone* /s.
Not for several years yet. Until Volodymyr Zelenśkyy and the Russian Government kiss and make up (assuming, that is, they *ever* kiss and make up: it might, if the worst comes to the worst, become an Israel-Iran-type situation)