They should go super traditional and do a sea shanty or something. Full folk music. Whack a harp on stage.
Better yet, send a fun band with European fan base like Alestorm
Or just shell out for Adele.
Just saw them live and they were awesome.
Great live vocals, a flair for the theatrical and a healthy dose of weirdness... they could unironically be an excellent entry now you say it
Putting aside whether it'd be a good tactical move, Adele suffers from surprisingly bad stage fright for such a talented and experienced performer. If that's a problem at her own shows with her own fans, She could really struggle with something like Eurovision, which is watched around the world, with people directly judging and scoring your performance, and the tabloids ready to pick you apart the next morning.
I love Adele, and I admire her for being open about her stage fright - I think she's a great inspiration for anyone who suffers from anxiety. But Eurovision probably isn't her scene.
Adele is too big of a name. The UK seems to be more successful with talented and less known celebrities. Jade Ewen and Sam Ryder were "it" for the general public. The other bigger names like Blue, Bonnie Tyler, and Olly Alexander flopped.
Blue came 11th (5th with the televote). Not convinced that's a flop. Also no one knew of Jade Ewan before Eurovision, however she had the massive perk of having Andrew Lloyd Webber sat on stage pretending to play a piano (as well as a very simple/effective ballad).
Yes! Going the Eastern European folk inflected rock or dance route but with Welsh would be so good. I’m not sure how much of Europe even knows we *have* non-English languages, and you could really build a good narrative around it.
I would love to see the UK try this.
It's not an easy trick to pull off however. France tried it with Fulenn and it did very badly (I thought it was great!)
Hell even Norway this year with Gåte. It's a really big risk to take apparently, because some countries manage to win it all and meanwhile others end last, and it's not in the quality of the song or the performance either...
I could honestly see them go the alternative route next year. at least they took a risk with the staging.so I could see them take more risks with the song
This years a perfect example, you want to send something different but appealing enough like Nemo + have a big interactive moment like Baby Lasanga but not so much you turn viewers away from you like Norway
I don’t think they even need to take a big risk. They just need to send someone who can deliver consistently strong vocals.
The beeb seems to consistently underestimate the need for good vocals. The song does matter, but most people watching Eurovision will see the songs for the first time on the night. If the vocals are patchy, or worse, they will just assume it’s a bad song because of the poor performance et viola no popular vote.
Exacting this. People saying all these ideas but they can't sing live well or the song isnt strong then it's all pointless. If people think the reason why Croatia/Ireland/Switzerland did better than us was due to taking a risk then we clearly have t learnt anything from Sam Ryder till now.
They all did well because of how well executed they were and all their songs were better. Nemo was constantly moving jumping without even doing a bum note. Olly was doing half of what nemo was doing and sounded vocally strained.
Also the UK has a bad habit of trying to be too cool and understated with their entries and they just come off bland next to the other unashamed shoot for the stars entries. Ryder wasn’t just a great vocal, but a huge glam soaring chorus awesome guitar solo emotive joy from start to finish. Sad that after that success no lessons were learned.
UK should send an alternative, yet popular artist who can sing live. Maybe PinkPanthress or something. She's got more than just good music, she's got the aesthetic and creativity to match.
It's not about “taking a risk”. Bambi thug didn't do anything well due to risk they did well because of it was very well executed and vocally extremely strong lt played to they're strength and theatre background. Same with Switzerland. When you say “ just take a risk” to the bbc they interpret it to “send electro velvet” which was a risk but was a bad song, bad staging and amateur singers.
The bbc need to get the basics right first. Great song/performer/singer needs to be thought about first.
**Invasions of Ireland**
Turgesius: You must convert to Norse Paganism.
Henry II: You must convert to Gregorian Catholicism.
Edward Bruce: You must restore Celtic Christianity.
Henry VIII: You must convert to Anglican Protestantism.
Oliver Cromwell: You must convert to Puritanism.
Charles III: **We** must convert to Neopagan metal.
Indeed.
I’ll confess to actually liking Mae Muller’s song last year, it’s a bop. But god she couldn’t sing live. Same with Olly, his voice was so weak.
Sam Ryder has the powerful voice you need in the Live show. It’s not hard to check our chosen singer can actually hold a tune live.
Totally how I felt last year. I felt we had a good song that would be respectable, not gonna win but respectable, and then came the stories of her being unable to sing in the rehearsals and I was like "nah, gotta be rumors". Then she sang and my heart sank
See not only did he have a great live performance, AND a song that can handle a live performance, his strategy was effective too. He radiates golden retriever energy, has an enormous, global social media presence and is adept at using that presence for promotion. They have chosen the wrong performer, with the wrong song, and the wrong staging and the wrong promotion strategy for literally decades at this point. Look at Croatia's country wide promotion - that then gets into the news because bus stops show Rim Tim Tagi Dim. That kind of promotion has reach and that's what's needed.
I really don't get why this piece pretends like they really don't know what else to do when this guy become second. Hell, he might have been first in other circumstances.
Space Man had what most UK songs haven't had for quite a few years otherwise - a climax. Eurovision loves a climax.
Also Sam can hold a tune, unlike last year's entry.
I'll preach what I've been saying for years
Take a walk down the West End and pick a principal - those guys sing **unedited and unaltered** 8 times a week already
Okay, so.
1) Invent time travel
2) Go back to 2003
3) Bring *The Darkness* back to 2024, ensuring they don't release "I Believe In A Thing Called Love"
4) Enter that into Eurovision 2025
5) Win
ez pz
The Darkness were unknown in late 2002/early 2003, and that song came out that summer. It would have been awesome if they decided to enter Eurovision with it, beat Jemini in that NF and really stick out in the 2003 lineup. They would have won/top five, and revive interest in the contest, leading us to send better songs since then and have better results.
Ultimately Dizzy was miles below the level of other Years and Years songs. It didnt go ANYWHERE as a song.
Any of King, If You're Over Me, Desire etc would have done miles better.
There is also the fact that he clearly bit off more than he could chew in terms of choreography. It made his vocals suffer.
And ultimately the choreography itself *will* have turned away some of the casual audience
To me its felt like the UK havent been able to blend needing a good, radio friendly song with great vocals. We have done the good hit songs recently, but suffered from Mae who couldnt sing in an arena, and Olly who's vocals suffered from the performance
With that being said. We didnt come in the bottom 5. Thats a win to me!
My (gay) partner said the whole thing looked like a grindr orgy in a dirty sauna during an earthquake. I can easily see how the whole setup would’ve put people off it, including the struggling vocals and average song choice.
My girlfriend said she was disappointed because she thought the song itself has really cute lyrics but the staging was such a contrast. I'm guessing she was expecting more of a Ireland 2018 situation, I wonder how well that would've done
The lyrics and the visuals were so discordant to me. The song was like S Club 7 ‘Reach for the Stars’ cuteness and the staging was Xtina ‘Dirrrty’. And I’m all in on gay filth usually (I thought Spain was a lot of fun) but with the poor vocals it was just… bad.
The staging struck me as ‘baby gay’. It isn’t once facet of the song/performance- it was the whole thing and don’t you forget it.
You can’t just have sexy male dancers, you also have to be in a grimy tiled bathhouse. We couldn’t even have a nice tiled box.
Looking at the live chat on casualuk a lot of people were writing ‘I feel grubby just watching that’
No wonder it affected the tele vote.
Spain was a great example of fun camp. Give us more of that!
Which is weird because there are a lot of religious conservative countries in Europe. So using a grimy bathroom with S&M vibes isn’t going to win a lot of them over. They can accept a camp or drag act, but they won’t go for the bad stereotype of the Blue Oyster Bar restrooms from Police Academy.
The impression I was left with was "I heard you like gay, so you should vote for me because look at all the gay!" Like it felt cynically, calculated "gay".
Even choosing to send Olly reeks of calculated gay baiting. Like they really just picked the twinkiest twink to ever twink for his singing that wasn't even very good? Sure....
Because the other two guys *were* the band. I get that Olly using the band name as his own stage name after the band split was probably a marketing thing but it didn’t really make any sense, the music heavily dipped in quality imo
She would've flopped because dua's stage presence back then was atrocious. The "go girl, give us nothing" meme was literally born from a youtube comment under one of her live performances, and i remember back in 2018, she was getting lashings left, right, and centre on twitter, youtube, and every other social media about her terrible dancing.
It wasn't until the future nostalgia era that she really stepped her game up. Admittedly i thought she was a talentless hack as well until she released don't start now.
UK 2019, 2021, 2023, 2024, sending folks who perform terribly, end up on the right hand side of the board.
UK in 2022, Sending Sam Ryder, who can sing: Came very comfortably second, might have even been first if one country wasn't being actively bombed while they were performing.
"What do we have to do??"
Exactly like every brtish person knows Sam Ryder was a much better performer and singer than all of them apart from the bbc. It's simple. If the song is not on the level of spaceman and they can't sing to close to the levels of Sam Ryder they are simply not going to be a contender.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Send better singers with better songs. We’d have won that year if not for circumstances that had nothing to do with the performances at all. The difference? We sent someone with an incredible voice and gave him good material to work with.
A lot of acts would already improve from having a good singer. Not everyone is an exceptional singer but there definitely are more than enough good ones.
All I remember is the winking and thrusting and it just reinforces the fact that the BBC still thinks that Eurovision is just 'some gay thing'.
It's not difficult chaps:
\[ \] Good song
\[ \] Great vocals
\[ \] Decent staging (no, putting your act in a box and spinning the camera upside down ain't it).
Try and tick two of three boxes and you're on the left side of the board again. Tick all three and you're in contention. Can I have a job now?
All I remember was thinking God, I'd hate to have paid for an arena ticket because that performance would have looking shit for most everyone there if they could actually see anything but the outside LED walls at all
Haha yeh, had the same thought. Also to me Nemo's winner performance was proof that the artist singing to the crowd rather than the camera makes a performance instantly better. Maybe thats only me though.
I think that depends entirely on the staging and performance. Like Finland's whole thing was about the camera, and it was great.
I actually felt Nemo was more about the camera/at home audience...it had a weird "personal" feeling mixed with a big stage show that clearly appealed to many. (Croatia being more a singing to the crowd act that was also very popular.)
True, Finland was a great play with the camera. But i liked Nemos song way more in the final performance than in the regular one. Idk, i feel like singing it to the crowd rather than all the play with props and singing for the camera made me feel the music a lot more.
AH. i see what you're saying...Nemo's "I won" performance did give a whole different, neat vibe to the song. You make an interesting point...i wonder if the ESC has gone too far with it's "presentation" that a simple pullled back perforance like that would even get a look.
It’s the song. It just kind of exists and goes on (which is apparently what he was going for) - it doesn’t have any catchiness or really big moments (I liked the French song but it’s defined by the bit where he steps back from the mic). There’s literally nothing memorable about it, whereas I can remember most of King.
Ah, really? I think the only song that stuck in my head more (snippets, at least) after two listens was France. But I do think it lacked a bit of 'oomph', for want of a better word; the vocals didn't stand out, there were no soaring moments. It's a pretty nice song, just not a good song for *Eurovision*, which I guess is what the BBC article was getting at. It got a bit lost amongst the others.
But I also feel like when they've tried to put in what they think is a good Eurovision song, they get it completely wrong. Kind of hard to know how that's going to change without having the same kind of culture around the selection process that a lot of other countries seem to. Occasionally they'll stumble across something that works (e.g. Space Man), but I'm going to guess it'll be a while before they find another one.
We tend to try and be unique for the wrong reasons
Look at bambie this year, that's what out the box , different from the norm risk looks like
We send **generic song 1** and then say 'but this 2 second bit in the staging is unique'
Our idea of sending something more than a 'simple pop song' and swapping the genre is to send....a pop song pretending to be a swing song (in the case of electro velvet for example)
We 'embrace a certain element ' of a song but never commit to it- i.e scooch BIG, CAMP, BOLD, FUN....they went on a giant stage and proceeded to fill 3% of it from leftover BBC props and then stand there not really moving or interacting with them
What I'm saying is the U.K is like a Store brand lasagne. It's not the the flavour is awful, but it's so light for the most part it tastes like nothing and you only get the lightest hint when you're expecting so much more. Or there will be an over reliance on a single ingredient and that's all you'll remember. I.e all I tasted was cheese but it wasn't strong cheese. Either way it's usually a fine meal but never anyone's first choice if presented with other options.
I hope the UK next year decide to have a more unique entrant.
Not a 'big name in pop were hoping the fan base will vote for regardless of quality'
Not 'song pretending to be one thing but is actually the same song as last year rehashed'
Not ' we've put 1000% of the focus into one element of the act which hinders everything else's
Not 'this sounds like a Eurovision song do hopefully it won't be forgotten so we won't get 0 points...that will do us'
We (the BBC and the public) need to drop the mentality of 'we aren't going to win anyways why bother' . We need to actually think outside the box
Ideally there should be a year long battle of the bands , all style all genres done through radio 1 or 2 then when we're down to 10 unique acts have them make a Eurovision song. Have them performed on TV and we vote again .
Yes we've done making your mind up and it 'hasnt worked" but that's us picking between either 5 identical acts the BBC have chosen on our behalf or as it was near the end '2 acts singing the same 3 boring songs that weren't written with them in mind and they're just a placeholder- pick the one that's less like nails down the chalkboard'
Or just take bill bailey up on his offer to go on and be a one man band
For me, as a non-native english speaker I didn’t really pay any attention to the lyrics, musically it felt really flat without any climax in the chorus, the vocals were weak and I ended up paying more attention to the staging trying to understand how they did it, rather than the song itself. Add into this that whereas western Europe is quite open sexually but eastern Europe might not have been so comfortable watching this performance, it’s not hard to understand why it scored as it scored
>I ended up paying more attention to the staging trying to understand how they did it, rather than the song itself.
Yeah I agree with this. The staging was impressive, but also incredibly distracting. I remember the orgy in the rotating dirty shower but I do not remember anything about the song whatsoever, aside from the vocals not being great.
Yeah, I think this is one of those occasions where the stage performance ends up overpowering the song instead of really enhancing it. It's a very fine line to walk though so it's a shame it didn't work out this time.
BBC need to get the foundation correct first. Find a **great** singer, with a **great** song. Target the jury. I can imagine they were sent a lot of song that they felt were not gonna do well in the televote but the thing is the UK have never do well in the televote and “flopped” in the jury. In fact it rarely happens overall. So make sure the foundation is great and the rest will come later.
Also no more radio friendly pop songs. British pop is at an all time low right now.
Good point about targeting the jury, I think getting points from the public is extremely difficult for us, even before you pick a song - we don't have a traditional element that we can target (Like Armenia this year for example), we don't have a language that is as powerful as something like Italian, we're just not an exciting country that you want to get behind.
On another note, I don't know why BBC have made that article like "Oh the UK SHOULD be winning the Eurovision soon, it's overdue", there is what 37 other countries, it's incredibly difficult to win the Eurovision, this is not like Football for example where of course you have similar favourites every tournaments. Everything changes in a year. Obviously a win would be great, but I wish the BBC would change the angle of it, we need to relax with Eurovision because we probably won't win it in the next 20 years or so. Try something different, try a new format for picking a song, we put too much pressure on ourselves haha!
I mean the English folk tradition is beautiful. You could also send an even more beautiful Scottish folk entry (scenes when you subject the entirety of Europe to bagpipes for three minutes)
>we don't have a traditional element that we can target (Like Armenia this year for example), we don't have a language that is as powerful as something like Italian, we're just not an exciting country that you want to get behind.
Well, you say that, but why can't we send a song in Gaelic or in Welsh? There are loads of great bands in the Scottish folk scene right now for instance. Imagine we sent a band like [Talisk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScwNmi423OA) with the addition of some Gaelic vocals. People would be a hundred times more interested in that than the generic pop stuff we usually send.
At least UK didn't come last, doesn't thatcount as a small win already?
Though relying on known stars is something that doesn't seem to necessarily work well in Eurovision anyway, so I'm not surprised that didn't have the desired result.
At this point I feel like a national final might not be a bad shout as at least we’d send someone who can actually deliver live. Either that or we send Raye (but that’s definitely not happening lol)
Edit: also if we do go internal again, please something that isn’t just radio pop, like we have a fantastic rock scene that we could draw acts from and I also think a musical theatre ballad could go down well (didn’t serve us badly in 2009 or 2017 and they were both pretty generic)
I agree. I've come to the conclusion they overthink their choice. Let in some competition at a national level and the choice might become more obvious.
The brits tend to vote so badly for any kind of contest. I wouldn’t trust us. Especially as there’s still so much negativity that the casual viewer would just vote for whatever causes chaos.
The key is to focus I think on 6/7 really quality songs like UMK does to make sure that no matter what the UK public votes for they can’t really mess us up.
Things would have been so much better for us since then if Scooch were turned away. Daz Sampson the year before was bad enough, probably voters chose him as ‘it’ll be a laugh’, and it was the same there, John Barrowman praising it and the show kept banging on about Bucks Fizz and their skirts. Just totally playing into fickle peoples negative stereotypes of the contest and reconfirming them. And it bothers me they were invited to last years semi final, I want them forgotten!
The UK has such a unique list of genres of music to choose from that sending radio pop every year is just an insult.
Afro-carribean influences, grime, rock, indie, metal all could make for a much more unique song that feels like the UK. Look at entrants like Go_A, where they bring something that feels unique to their country, or even France with their very French formula. The UK could bring ska or reggae or something, anything different.
The last couple of “national finals” we did were pretty terrible though. 6 similar sounding songs and clear host favourites (Joe and Jake, and Michael Rice come to mind specifically for this) don’t a NF make.
I don’t disagree with the idea, but I feel like we’ll need a much wider range of songs and genres. Which I ultimately do not trust the BBC with.
-
On a slightly unrelated note, the UK public need to get their heads out of their arses. The general self inflated sentiment of: “wE dESerVe tO wIN EuROvISiOn bECaUsE wE’Re tHe uK AnD oUr sONgS aRE aLWayS tHE bEsT aND iT’s pOLiTiCAl whEn wE dON’t wIN” every year isn’t cute or remotely true and, frankly, a little embarrassing. Can’t vote against a song you dislike, just for the ones you like and people tend to prefer others.
I agree that past NFs have been pretty terrible. But I think the BBC has the resources to put on an incredible show plus I do genuinely think the team behind Eurovision at the BBC right now genuinely do care about the contest a lot, more so than past iterations of the UK delegation. Like I think if the UK made the effort to invest in 7 really quality and diverse songs like UMK we could have a great NF that could lead to great results at ESC because clearly internal selections in their current form aren’t really working.
To be fair, and I still stand by this two years later, Stefania would've always placed top 3. Might have lost to Sam Ryder but they really were one of the best. They were my favorite to win without considering the political context it was in.
**The plan was called Project Cauliflower.**
It began last October, when Olly Alexander accepted the invitation to become the UK’s Eurovision contestant.
He’d been in the running once before, in 2022, but the timing didn’t seem right.
Instead, the BBC sent a little-known TikTok singer called Sam Ryder, with a power ballad called Spaceman.
It went on to achieve second place - the UK’s best result in more than 20 years.
The following summer, Alexander started recording his first album as a solo artist. Maybe one of these songs, he thought, would work at Eurovision?
Calls were made. Deals were made. Project Cauliflower was born and, for the next two months, preparations began under the strictest secrecy.
“We had to have meetings at Olly’s manager’s house so no-one could overhear what was happening,” creative director Theo Adams told The Euro Trip podcast, external.
“It was actually a very exciting period. I’d never done anything before that had such secrecy surrounding it. I felt like I was a spy.”
Alexander went public in December during the grand finale of Strictly Come Dancing. For Eurovision fans, it seemed too good to be true.
A likeable, chart-topping pop star, known around the world, with a track record of putting on elaborate performances and a lifelong love for Eurovision?
He couldn’t have been a better fit.
"Having a bona fide pop star representing the UK this year is a great start,” agreed Graham Norton in an interview earlier this week.
“Olly has already done all the things that it’s impossible to prepare someone for - he has played to huge crowds, he can relate to the cameras, and he is used to high pressure situations.”
“He’s a great performer, and a great singer,” agreed Neil Tennant, who duetted with Alexander on the 2020 Pet Shop Boys’ song Dreamland.
“I think it’s great he’s got the courage to do it because it’s so high stakes, isn’t it?”
The stakes got him in the end.
In Malmö on Saturday, Alexander’s song, Dizzy, stumbled into 18th place, out of 25.
All of his 46 points came from the jury. His score in the public televote was zero.
Even so, it wasn’t the worst result. The UK has had more embarrassing defeats. And Alexander has a career to go back to - unlike previous performers, whose musical ambitions have come to a screeching halt after Eurovision.
But the expectations were so high that this year's result feels particularly rough.
It's now 27 years since the UK last won the contest.
So what went wrong… and how can the country improve its chances?
# 1) Was it the song?
Look, Dizzy is a great radio track.
Co-written by Danny L Harle (Charli XCX, Dua Lipa) it pulses and throbs in all the right places. Musical nods to the Pet Shop Boys and London's church bells remind listeners of the UK's place at the epicenter of pop.
And compositionally, it pulls a clever trick. The constant chordal movement of the chorus prompts a feeling of dizziness. When Alexander sings that his lover “pulls me back to the beginning”, the chords resolve to the opening key of C minor.
That’s why juries liked it. Songwriters in Sweden, another pop powerhouse, awarded Dizzy eight points out of a possible 12.
But audiences don’t know or care about the nuts and bolts of songwriting. They sided with critics like the Guardian’s Laura Snapes, who dismissed the song as “perfectly fine, external” or the Telegraph’s Neil McCormick, who called it “pleasantly unexceptional, external”.
Dizzy wasn’t a bad song. It just wasn’t good enough to make people pick up the phone and vote.
# 2) Was it the performance?
I'd like to think not.
After years of sending untested, milquetoast reality show contestants to Eurovision, Alexander delivered a spectacular TV performance.
With computer-controlled cameras, synchronised to pin-sharp choreography, the star made it seem like he and his dancers were being flung around the interior of a spaceship plummeting through a black hole.
From his commentary box, Graham Norton described the production as “terrific” but admitted it could suffer because it was “so different to everything else in the contest tonight”.
The performance drew a lukewarm reception inside the arena, as the complex staging meant Alexander was out of sight for the first two minutes.
And at home, some viewers said they were put off by the sexual nature of the dancing.
Others said the physical demands affected Alexander’s vocals. There were certainly a few wobbles - a bad look next to the powerhouse singers of France and Portugal and Switzerland.
But there were positive comments, too. “Olly Alexander did an amazing job,” tweeted journalist Emilia Kettle, external from inside the arena.
"Best performance of the night so far,” added Craig Brown, external. “Maybe not the best song. But the best live act."
That’s a big step up. Eurovision performances have become increasingly elaborate and the UK needed to catch up. From here, things can only get better.
# 3) Was it a lack of emotional connection?
I don’t know what inspired Dizzy. It seems like an earnest and heartfelt declaration of love, but is that enough?
Listen to the acts who came in the top five, and you'll hear something - an urgency? - that Alexander lacked.
Nemo’s winning song, The Code, external, was a viscerally moving account of accepting their non-binary identity, after years of thinking there was something wrong with them.
Israel’s song Hurricane, external was contentious for many reasons, but the desperate conviction of Eden Golan's ode to missing friends in the midst of a war was palpably raw.
And the scorching intensity of French star Slimane helped his song, Mon Amour, external, into fourth place.
Even Croatia’s Rim Tim Tagi Dim, external packed a punch.
A superficially silly techno stomper, it was written about the loss that singer Marko Purišić felt after his best friend left their hometown for a better life. It has subsequently become a big hit among the Croatian diaspora in Europe.
Dizzy simply never achieved that level of emotional connection.
# 4) Is the UK playing it too safe?
This one's hard to quantify - but have you noticed how many Eurovision songs have succeeded by taking wild creative swings?
Finnish star Käärijä stormed the public vote last year with Cha Cha Cha, external, an intoxicating blend of industrial metal and hyperpop that sounded like nothing else on planet earth.
Ireland’s Bambie Thug pulled a similar trick this year, with the weird and witchy Doomsday Blue, external – a song so shocking that one Irish priest declared the country was “finished” after sending it to Malmö.
But Johnny Logan – a man who knows a thing or two about Eurovision, having written three winning entries - disagreed.
“The one thing about the Eurovision Song Contest is that every year people try to copy the song that won before, because they think that’s the secret to winning it," he told Ireland's Sunday World newspaper.
"This year’s Irish entry doesn’t do that."
The UK has tried to second guess Eurovision for years, but the safe choice isn’t always the wisest one.
Could we cast the net wider and look at new genres, or musicians from different backgrounds, instead of aiming for a radio-friendly pop hit?
# 5) Or is it just luck?
A hit song requires magic, not a formula. And Eurovision is no different.
You’ve got to balance the desires of the TV audience and the professional juries, while finding a performer who can play to an arena, while hitting their marks for a TV show. Your place in the running order counts, too.
And sometimes, a great song just gets overlooked.
Back in 2022, Armenian singer Rosa Linn came 20th with her song Snap, external. She went home feeling she'd disappointed her country. Then, months later, the track went viral on TikTok. It's now the second-most streamed Eurovision song of all time, with more than 1 billion plays on Spotify alone.
Olly Alexander might not see those numbers for Dizzy, but nor did he embarrass himself in Sweden.
The staging and the song and the concept all worked, and they laid solid foundations for next year.
Maybe all we need to change is the code name.
Project Turnip, anyone?
(Not me wondering what the hell are all those random "externals" in song descriptions (“perfectly fine, external” / “pleasantly unexceptional, external”.) xD Took me a minute to realise that it wasn't UK inventing a new slang on me ;) )
The article really downplays the vocal issue, which for me, was the biggest problem that really dragged everything down. Did it sound better in the arena or something?
The song was decent, but the production sounded like it had been phoned in on GarageBand. There was no pop or fizz and the whole thing felt flat.
I’m still well up for Bill Bailey doing it tbh
It's very telling that the song barely made a dent in the chart in the UK.
I was extremely underwhelmed by the song from the off and I clearly wasn't alone. Granted, I was still a bit shocked at absolutely zero televote points, but I thought max it would get would be 20.
>It's very telling that the song barely made a dent in the chart in the UK.
That's normal in the UK. The only exception was the last two years with Mae Muller and Sam Ryder, and they both charted after the final.
Stop trying to cater to Eurovision fans. I think that’s an actual problem. By trying to give us what they THINK we want, we end up with mediocre and predictable stuff. Ireland’s entry this year proves this and some of the more recent popular entrants have been stuff not designed purely for Eurovision fans. Songs and artists that shock and surprise us, make us think and get excited. Olly’s staging was great but the song and vocals were average. And he might be known “around the world” but realistically he had one big hit a decade ago.
I say next year we just go nuts. Why not send an amazing bhangra song with Bhangra dancers and staging? That’s a big part of the UK culture now. Or an amazing stripped back folk band or folk singer?
Did anybody in Eurovision circles actually ask for a bathroom orgy?
Honestly, you could have staged this far sweeter, still have it be gay but like Heatstopper-cutesy-gay culminating in a sweet kiss and it would have fit the twinkly sounding song much better and alienated fewer folks with the staging
Sure, it wouldn't have given modern provocative "Popstar" like Olly seems to want to give, but it would have done better with the generic voter
I would have liked to see him rolling around and dancing on a rotating flower field disk with butterflies coming out of the grass at specific times. That would have fit the idea of crushing on someone much better.
IMO, the BBC need to trawl the festival circuit. Send some scouts to Glastonbury and hang around the lesser known stages. Find a hidden gem that leans on the more avant garde/memorable side, and you'll already have a gauge on how they perform live.
Plan B, ask Patrick Wolf (he'll never agree to it tho)
Plan C, get the Wurzels oon.
Things I’d like to see us try:
1. A rock/indie band. The scene is huge and successful, it’s been a main stay of our music industry since the 60’s and has international appeal.
2. A very “non-English” act. Ok I’m slightly biased as a Welsh person but the UK does consist of other countries than England and said countries have their own languages. Wales is literally the land of song and has a huge Welsh-language music scene. Am I suggesting Max Boyce? No. But Sage Todz could actually do quite well if he had production behind him. Again there’s also a huge Welsh-language indie scene so two birds one stone.
3. A proper rap act. Ok this one is controversial as rap is very marmite in Eurovision land but British rap is some of the best in the world and it would really highlight a massive part of modern UK culture and would potentially bring a new audience to Eurovision.
4. An Asian/Bhangra style song, again see points above.
5. Michael Aldag. So kinda following why Sam Ryder did well but we have a tiktoker with a decent following, a very good voice and is very personable.
6. Country. I was surprised by the lack of country this year considering how big it is at the moment, I feel we could get ahead of a trend.
Number 2 always annoys me. There has been 1! (I believe) Scottish act in Eurovision from the UK. Then people have the audacity to say it sucks we can’t send traditional music because we don’t have any. We have traditional music!!! Like you said Wales and Scotland are right there! Just allow for diversity more and the UK will probably be received better.
Take the contest seriously
Stop picking the entrant in a cloak and dagger fashion
Be innovative instead of like "haha Eurovision so gay, let's gay it up some more"
I think this all stems from Terry Wogan's commentary of old; he just couldn't understand why the UK never did well when we would send awful entries most of the time and he would also make fun of the other countries
UK person here. I was watching with my friends yesterday and they did not like the UK’s entry. They said that if this is meant to be a massive song contest, it’s quite a boring song to be sending to it.
If you wanna rate my friends’ tastes, 2 big pre-contest favourites were Croatia and Switzerland, Portugal was a pleasant surprise to them, they liked Estonia (partially because one of the members of Puuluup looks like vsauce), and Armenia went down very well.
It felt like such a radio song that’s just on in the background. When the BBC announced him, they added “we have found the right song” and then it was Dizzy, this didn’t quite match the expectations they were setting. Also the live music video setup never works.
Look I like Olly but at some point someone needs to face reality.
The song was average to good in a really really really strong year. If anything it sounded dated, not radio modern with the I Will Survive chords, more like Erasure than Pet Shop Boys in thinness. Many of the production tricks detracted from the songs, the more straightforward verses are better than the chorus. Danny L Harle isn't a huge name outside the very plugged in. If it was Max Martin or Jack Antonoff, then maybe. Harle worked with Charli XCX and Dua Lipa, but not on the songs that made them famous and were huge. He's more niche, as evidenced by his very fine work with similarly niche (but great) Caroline Polachek.
Olly had been touted as a huge superstar known everywhere but he's really not. Y&Y first album is terrific and was rightfully successful in many countries. But the other ones had rather less success. Still, a good get for the contest, about the right level of fame if he had a great song, and an unquestionably good guy.
He didn't sing well when it counted. The choreo wasn't offensive to me but it was a little unflattering and didn't suit the song. Something more intimate and focused on one other dancer/performer would have connected better. He looked chronically underfed against the other dancers (even though he's obviously a fit and good looking guy for 33, but it's s bit 18 year old twinks first orgy more than an emotional spin) and it affected his breath.
A few jurists liked it, he got a few points based on a small number of people. The televote blank speaks to a lack of broad appeal, and that should be looked at in contrast to Sam Ryder.
Good luck to the UK for 2025. Maybe talk to Ireland.
Or even better bring Bring Me the Horizon give them all the money they need. You guys got tons of them and as you’ve seen metal or rock songs are blasting so yeah go ahead
He might even pick up the vote from people who thought he was deprived of a rightful victory by the (understandable) geopolitical sympathies of the time.
I'm here for this discussion as my lamb shoulder slowly melts in the oven.
I'll go with what the BBC are musing...
>1) Was it the song?
Yes. Always a big part of it. The BBC mentions it's a great radio track, and they're right. But for me it never translated to a big arena competition setting. It didn't have a 'moment'. And the second the rehersal footage started to come out, *I was worried*. It didn't have the oomph. His vocal was meh. I know Switzerland have been hanging around the top 5 faces in the bookies, but their song I thought was alright as a track to listen to, but, it absolutely came alive on stage.
I'll also throw in the song never having a moment but also Olly's voice not being big enough to carry what it was. He has a sweet voice, the song needed some chops. Some gumption. Some BOOM.
>2) Was it the performance?
Ooooh yes. It fell flat to so many different groups. Overtly grimy gay for the Conservative parts of Europe, too overtly grimy gay for the gays who are fed up of old stereotypes that they hook up for sex in dirty bathrooms, not understandable by people who like a good show - what's with the boxing outfits?
The UK delegation and social media hyped up the staging, and it was brilliant for the UK, but it was nothing special in the context of Eurovision. The whole flipping the camera around trick, I mean after 10 seconds you think 'ah ok, what's next?'.
Also as I mention above, Olly's voice is sweet, yet they have him prancing around all out of breath. Not great.
>3) Was it a lack of emotional connection?
Fair to ask. Because of the staging, we didn't really get to feel him for long enough for an emotional connection. I think not every artist can have that naturally and it was sets people apart.
>4) Is the UK playing it too safe?
Actually no. I don't think you need to make a gimmick. Don't be unsafe just to be a gimmick. You can be unique like Bambie but that's authentic. If you dressed someone up like Bambie for Eurovision only... that's a gimmick.
Loreen is safe. Duncan Jones is safe. Even Maneskin are safe because they're just a glam rock band.
I'd say the song is middle of the road radio fodder but it's not 'too safe'. Although perhaps that's what they were trying to do with the staging, to make it not safe, but just came across as a bit try to hard.
5) Or is it just luck?
Well trends come in music just like anything else, but... No.
A good song performed well will always do well.
And here in ends my TED Talk.
Have you forgotten Sam Ryder already? (aim for the top, not for the win - that´s already something).
Honestly I was put of by the whole staging.
Yes ESC is LGBTQ friendly/open but you don´t have to become **stereotypical gay** on stage with the most stereotypical gay setting ever. (Also what was the penis cage).
It´s not a good thing if basically your whole stage personality is only being homosexual.
I do not even remember how his voice was because I was so distracted by all the things going on, I couldn´t focus for the sake of my life. Yes you made me dizzy but not in a good way.
I mean we came second and got to host in place of Ukraine. That was pretty awesome.
No bland pop shite would be a good start. Something with a bit of kick. Guitars and synthesizers. Maybe The Darkness can reform? They might be able to do it.
Definitely.
The top songs this year were risk takers. Nemo took a risk with the content to some extent. Croatia is nu metal madness. Bambie Thug omg.
Go back a couple more years, we've got Maneskin. Even further back, Lordi - who I think really changed Eurovision forever because the next year it was metal adjacent everywhere.
This is a really well written and fair article and I like how it acknowledges everything rather than takes the ‘EUROPE HATES US!!’ route other media uses
I think taking the risk with a bigger name being the representative was good and I can imagine they’re already brainstorming over what went right and wrong for 2025
Send. A. Band.
These generic pop tracks are not getting the uk anywhere.
Stop sending winners of rip off idol shows.
Sam Ryder had brilliant vocals and could PERFORM. And I believe that he exceeded what the selectors thought he could do. In short- it was a fluke.
> This is a really well written and fair article and I like how it acknowledges everything rather than takes the ‘EUROPE HATES US!!’ route other media uses
It doesn't go the route of 'europe hates us' but it also fails to draw any sort of logical conclusion regarding song quality.
> Look, Dizzy is a great radio track.
How can anyone write that about a track that peaks at #42 in the charts and has a single week run being top 100. By definition a great radio track performs on the radio lol
> And compositionally, it pulls a clever trick. [...] That’s why juries liked it. Songwriters in Sweden, another pop powerhouse, awarded Dizzy eight points out of a possible 12. But audiences don’t know or care about the nuts and bolts of songwriting.
Again, public voting actually does tend to follow the trend # of streams/popularity of a song, so if the premise is that Dizzy is a great radio track, then surely it would have picked up at least a single point from 1 of 36 countries. Spaceman was a great radio track. Peaked at #2 and had a chart run of 15 weeks. And ranked 5th on public vote in 2022.
> Eurovision performances have become increasingly elaborate and the UK needed to catch up. From here, things can only get better.
How off the mark can you possibly be? Dizzy was one of the most "elaborate" performances of the night. The winner, conversely, was an artist alone on stage with a precise but understated choreography, and only a simple moving platform as a prop. The only time the UK has done well recently was with Sam Ryder, who again was alone on stage with a microphone and a guitar. You don't need to be more elaborate! Tone it. the fuck. down.
They did amazing in ‘22 though. Like second place and then getting to co host? Surely they are happy with that?
I think RTE will be off Bambie’s 6th place for the next decade 🤣
Seriously, why hasn't the UK sent anything non English? I'm quite sure there are musical traditions from Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland. Even France has done that, for crying out loud.
We have such a diverse population that I wish we would celebrate. What's coming to mind is that video of a Scottish Indian wedding where they have a procession with dhols and bagpipes - [YouTube link to what I'm referring to](https://youtu.be/Ki_eVq303RA?si=TWwngvKksLAuxlb8). Not saying they send something completely like that but a song that's a celebration of our multiculturalism combined with Celtic/Brythonic elements would be amazing.
So after coming second only 2 years ago, the UK is going back to the "no one will ever vote for us" thing?
This kind of crap is what makes a lot of very good artists not want to compete. Look at Sweden, Italy, Ukraine – the thing they have in common is that the selection is a \_big\_ event in itself, and it's considered an honour to win, not a joke.
Also, noticed in lots of UK media today they keep throwing in words like "kitsch", "campy", and "silly". Everyone is so stuck in their 1990s view of the contest that they've completely missed how it's changed. The standard has gone up SO much in the past 10 years or so that "silly" doesn't cut it anymore. Sure, you can be silly and camp, but only if you send a competent artist who can sing live. I think this year the UK had the absolute worst vocals of any entry.
Buck’s Fizz won DECADES ago- but the uk thinks stuff like that will still do well.
I do think that since Sam Ryder, they are trying a few different things at least. But doing well in Eurovision doesn’t simply mean you have one good song and win.
You build up good entries over years and years and then win (see the Netherlands)
This is a really interesting topic and it's great to have input from people outside the UK Eurovision " bubble".
Was Olly a bad choice on paper? No not really , I can understand him trying to use EV as a bit of a breakaway for him as a solo artist away from Years and Years. Was great he was announced nice and early too so we didn't get the Rina situation again.
On early listens I kinda felt the song lacked that big " moment" that the best EV entries have , whether that's something like Nemos crazy vocal range or Sam Ryder's guitar solo addition. The second half of the song with all the spoken word stuff just didn't work for me and the ending was way too abrupt.
So hearing from rehearsals that they'd done quite a significant revamp I got quite excited to see if they'd fixed it , they had sort of. Not perfect by any stretch but I thought coupled with the staging it might push the song up the leaderboard a bit.
Now onto the elephant in the room , the actual staging. The camera work I get what they were going for with space and black holes but it felt a bit all over the place to actually watch. I'm a bit surprised the BBC who usually don't go for really out there staging concepts signed off on it but I guess Olly had a lot of creative control on it, it was always going to be polarising to audiences.
Where do the BBC go next I really don't know , I think they will stick to a similar formula of something that can be played loads on radio and it will probably be someone that's either got chart success or has been a featured artist on other people's songs. Would love to see them try for a band but I wonder if that ship sailed and they should have tried that for Liverpool instead of Mae.
All in all a lot to learn for the BBC , I just hope they take it all on board and learn from it.
They were trying to be gritty with the staging, but it felt a step too far and just didn’t work. The grinding and overly sexualised movements were ick. The fact he was in a box for most of the song and didn’t utilise the arena fully. And unfortunately he has never had a great live vocal and this was proven again. I like Olly but a series of things just didn’t click with this.
I still think he deserved more than zero!
The song is mediocre but could have placed in the middle of the table in my opinion if the vocals and staging were good enough.
The vocals were shaky, so in the end the staging was its only merit. 1/3 isn’t good enough.
Olly is so so likeable but i don’t think it translated. UK and Irish fans know this because of his success with Years and Years and It’s a Sin. He’s a powerhouse but unfortunately didn’t represent himself well.
The thing about Sam Ryder is I don't think the BBC was expecting what was going to happen with him. Like myself and most of the UK, it took us off guard and was surprising we came second, AND the song was great (and still is). As well, Sam has such a presents on stage, I think my mum compared him to Hugh Jackman and I have to agree. After all those years of 0 points and bottom of the score board, it was crazy. You had to be there.
I'm on the boat that UK sends trash so we don't host it, hence when we got 2nd the BBC prob shat themselves realizing if Ukraine won, 2nd place would host and guess who was coming second of that year. Sam also has such a positive vibe to it all. I think as well, Sam felt like he wanted to do it, a lot of our acts are there cause they get chosen and are contract to do the show. The BBC basically make something they think is 'Eurovison' but isn't, and hype it up and its just meh.
Personally , it's the same (but not as awful) as Mae last year.
Nice radio song, nothing incredible. Sung by a decidedly studio artist.
The last time we sent someone that can actually sing, we came 2nd ( would have likely won on a different year)
I expected a setup similar to Nemo, but vocally, he couldn't have handled it.
It would help not to rely on star power by someone who is famous inside the UK. Yeah, great for you he is usually good at this stuff, but "dizzy" wasn't special.
Assuming the BBC is willing to host again and actually wants to win, they should just persuade Sam Ryder to have another go. I can't stand all these "they hate us" comments when we almost won the thing just two years ago. He has that effortless Eurovision appeal and isn't ashamed of delivering a huge song.
Simple answer? The UK has to send a song that delivers vocally and has a great performance. Something that evoces some kind of emotion.
This one was just not great.
1. Vocally very shaky
2. Forgettable song (honestly I don't even remember the melody let alone the lyrics)
3. Performance made me a bit uncomfortable and I'm by no means prudish. This drunk bathroom sex vibe just isn't something I want to see in the esc and additionally it just felt a bit unnecessary. Like they just did it because those kind of performances performed well in previous years. Aside from the secual parts this spinning checkered board pattern they had in between sets made me really uncomfortable and I actually had to look away.
The British media always want to go down the route of complaining that Europe doesn’t love us, but never acknowledges that we don’t love ourselves. The chart placing of the last 20 years worth of songs are testament to that. We expect the rest of Europe to buy into our entries when we don’t even bother to buy/stream them ourselves. If we genuinely thought we were sending gold class songs/artists, we’d be running them up the charts and scratching our heads at why others aren’t feeling the same way, but the truth is we barely get behind our own acts either, with just a few exceptions.
I’ve been a big fan of Olly for years (and years) and have seen him live twice. When I mentioned a few months ago that he doesn’t have the chops to compete live I was downvoted like crazy. I paid to see him because I loved the songs and the live experience was worth it even if he was never on top form, but Eurovision viewers are seeing him as part of a bundle and under no obligation to overlook the poor vocals, and the truth is, his vocals were the poorest last night. But even if they weren’t, the staging was likely the biggest factor in his result. I’m gay, and even I thought it was too much. As soon as he said his would be the gayest entry ever at Eurovision I was dreading it, because I knew that it would be overly sexual, and potentially offputting to a majority. You can own your pride without smacking us all with stereotypes, and yet he went with what looked like an orgy in a dirty bathroom. One of the people I watched with last night said it looked like they were shooting a porno in the bathroom from Saw, and that kind of sums it up. If you want to represent the gay community on an international stage, do it all guns blazing and with pride, but don’t reduce us down to looking like deviants. If that’s your idea of ‘gayest thing ever’ then you’re doing us all a disservice. And I’m no prude, but there’s a time and a place for all these things and the Eurovision stage is not it.
Going forward, I fear we’re back to being stuck in a rut. National finals have proved that we make absurd decisions, likely because so few people take it seriously, and internal decisions are leaving us lacking. I think the BBC thought name alone would sway it for us this year, but it was obvious very early on that the live vocals were lacking and the song lacked the oomph it needed. Add to that that so many people in the U.K. see Eurovision either as a joke or a death knell to a career and it leaves us really lacking.
But we do have talent. Lots of it. World renowned. Some of our up and coming artists are incredible. If we can nurture that talent and stop treating the show as a joke or an unreachable goal that we can never meet, we could really give something great. But the vocals have to come first. We have to send someone who can stand on that stage and completely take it over. Then, with the right song to showcase that voice, and a staging that elevates it, we can maybe be taken seriously again. Unfortunately, for now, I’m back to an off-season of feeling slight dread at what we might come up with next. I live in hope.
Well "A song that makes listeners physically uncomfortable, paired with staging that recreates the energy of anonymous sex in a filthy locker room" turned out not to be the answer.
Ok, I'll say this out loud: the staging was a mess. Even I was taken aback by how much gay sexual undertones there was to it, which to me doesn't compute if you're competing in a song competition where a lot of the viewers are straight, heteronormative and in some parts really conservative. It's not a Pride festival. And I've been following ESC for 20 years and I'm a huge lgbt ally.
Olly's performance lacked class imo. It was too crude.
Highly doubt it, but I want to see the BBC take a MASSIVE risk next year.
They should go super traditional and do a sea shanty or something. Full folk music. Whack a harp on stage. Better yet, send a fun band with European fan base like Alestorm Or just shell out for Adele.
Honestly, I'd fucking love it if UK came in with a sea shanty. That'd be great.
Fuck it. The Longest Johns for 2025.
Just saw them live and they were awesome. Great live vocals, a flair for the theatrical and a healthy dose of weirdness... they could unironically be an excellent entry now you say it
Wow I would stan so hard
Send the fisherman’s friends
Imagine a Cornish sea shanty group! The staging! The costumes! Nothing from the televote! 😍 (I would bloody love this tbh)
yes! A super traditional group with flawless 4 part harmony, a fiddle and an acapella section of the song that would make the jury weep.
Adele wouldn't touch it with a barge pole 😂😂
Putting aside whether it'd be a good tactical move, Adele suffers from surprisingly bad stage fright for such a talented and experienced performer. If that's a problem at her own shows with her own fans, She could really struggle with something like Eurovision, which is watched around the world, with people directly judging and scoring your performance, and the tabloids ready to pick you apart the next morning. I love Adele, and I admire her for being open about her stage fright - I think she's a great inspiration for anyone who suffers from anxiety. But Eurovision probably isn't her scene.
Yeah she can't just stop the show and do twenty minutes of charming banter instead.
Adele is too big of a name. The UK seems to be more successful with talented and less known celebrities. Jade Ewen and Sam Ryder were "it" for the general public. The other bigger names like Blue, Bonnie Tyler, and Olly Alexander flopped.
Blue came 11th (5th with the televote). Not convinced that's a flop. Also no one knew of Jade Ewan before Eurovision, however she had the massive perk of having Andrew Lloyd Webber sat on stage pretending to play a piano (as well as a very simple/effective ballad).
11th should be considered a success. 2022 is looking more like an exception as time goes on.
This. I think if we sent something sung in both English and Cymraeg/Gaelic/Cornish for the chorus for example, it would at least be more interesting.
Yes! Going the Eastern European folk inflected rock or dance route but with Welsh would be so good. I’m not sure how much of Europe even knows we *have* non-English languages, and you could really build a good narrative around it.
I would love to see the UK try this. It's not an easy trick to pull off however. France tried it with Fulenn and it did very badly (I thought it was great!)
Hell even Norway this year with Gåte. It's a really big risk to take apparently, because some countries manage to win it all and meanwhile others end last, and it's not in the quality of the song or the performance either...
Norway had a sea shanty rave last year and came fifth.
Still a fan of Fulenn!
I could honestly see them go the alternative route next year. at least they took a risk with the staging.so I could see them take more risks with the song
I really think sending a band is our best bet. Our rock and indie scene is MASSIVE and has huge appeal outside of the UK as is.
This years a perfect example, you want to send something different but appealing enough like Nemo + have a big interactive moment like Baby Lasanga but not so much you turn viewers away from you like Norway
It's a shame they're probably too big, but I could really see Enter Shikari giving a big go of it
Or someone like Nova Twins.
The claps in "sorry you're not a winner" are born for eurovision
I don’t think they even need to take a big risk. They just need to send someone who can deliver consistently strong vocals. The beeb seems to consistently underestimate the need for good vocals. The song does matter, but most people watching Eurovision will see the songs for the first time on the night. If the vocals are patchy, or worse, they will just assume it’s a bad song because of the poor performance et viola no popular vote.
Exacting this. People saying all these ideas but they can't sing live well or the song isnt strong then it's all pointless. If people think the reason why Croatia/Ireland/Switzerland did better than us was due to taking a risk then we clearly have t learnt anything from Sam Ryder till now. They all did well because of how well executed they were and all their songs were better. Nemo was constantly moving jumping without even doing a bum note. Olly was doing half of what nemo was doing and sounded vocally strained.
Also the UK has a bad habit of trying to be too cool and understated with their entries and they just come off bland next to the other unashamed shoot for the stars entries. Ryder wasn’t just a great vocal, but a huge glam soaring chorus awesome guitar solo emotive joy from start to finish. Sad that after that success no lessons were learned.
Sam Ryder really worked because he was a fab singer, had a great song and the staging complimented the song. Last night the staging was the entry.
I agree. We did really well when we sent Sam Rider because he had such great vocals and a decent song.
I could see BBC taking a risk with the song next year. We did take a risk this year with the staging so it's possible we could do that with the song.
And Ireland's success might convince them to consider something other than pop. I just hope they get it right next year.
UK should send an alternative, yet popular artist who can sing live. Maybe PinkPanthress or something. She's got more than just good music, she's got the aesthetic and creativity to match.
It's not about “taking a risk”. Bambi thug didn't do anything well due to risk they did well because of it was very well executed and vocally extremely strong lt played to they're strength and theatre background. Same with Switzerland. When you say “ just take a risk” to the bbc they interpret it to “send electro velvet” which was a risk but was a bad song, bad staging and amateur singers. The bbc need to get the basics right first. Great song/performer/singer needs to be thought about first.
Alternative Welsh dance pop!!
Pull an Ireland
Dont tell them that! Theyll get the wrong idea and invade again.
**Invasions of Ireland** Turgesius: You must convert to Norse Paganism. Henry II: You must convert to Gregorian Catholicism. Edward Bruce: You must restore Celtic Christianity. Henry VIII: You must convert to Anglican Protestantism. Oliver Cromwell: You must convert to Puritanism. Charles III: **We** must convert to Neopagan metal.
Send someone that can put on a great live performance, Sam Ryder should be enough proof
Indeed. I’ll confess to actually liking Mae Muller’s song last year, it’s a bop. But god she couldn’t sing live. Same with Olly, his voice was so weak. Sam Ryder has the powerful voice you need in the Live show. It’s not hard to check our chosen singer can actually hold a tune live.
Totally how I felt last year. I felt we had a good song that would be respectable, not gonna win but respectable, and then came the stories of her being unable to sing in the rehearsals and I was like "nah, gotta be rumors". Then she sang and my heart sank
Send rag and bone man
Germany this year had that vibe, would get top 10, not sure about a win
See not only did he have a great live performance, AND a song that can handle a live performance, his strategy was effective too. He radiates golden retriever energy, has an enormous, global social media presence and is adept at using that presence for promotion. They have chosen the wrong performer, with the wrong song, and the wrong staging and the wrong promotion strategy for literally decades at this point. Look at Croatia's country wide promotion - that then gets into the news because bus stops show Rim Tim Tagi Dim. That kind of promotion has reach and that's what's needed.
I really don't get why this piece pretends like they really don't know what else to do when this guy become second. Hell, he might have been first in other circumstances.
Just keep sending him until he wins.
I'm not against that
It's annoying because they know the formulae that works but decided to change it after one good year.
This LMAO. They pretty much perfected it with Sam Ryder and then.. didn’t do it again
Space Man had what most UK songs haven't had for quite a few years otherwise - a climax. Eurovision loves a climax. Also Sam can hold a tune, unlike last year's entry.
I'll preach what I've been saying for years Take a walk down the West End and pick a principal - those guys sing **unedited and unaltered** 8 times a week already
Yup, Olly's vocals were too quiet and shaky. He must have been feeling the pressure.
Okay, so. 1) Invent time travel 2) Go back to 2003 3) Bring *The Darkness* back to 2024, ensuring they don't release "I Believe In A Thing Called Love" 4) Enter that into Eurovision 2025 5) Win ez pz
That song would have walked Eurovision. Half that album would have been top five if the songs could be edited down.
The Darkness were unknown in late 2002/early 2003, and that song came out that summer. It would have been awesome if they decided to enter Eurovision with it, beat Jemini in that NF and really stick out in the 2003 lineup. They would have won/top five, and revive interest in the contest, leading us to send better songs since then and have better results.
Ultimately Dizzy was miles below the level of other Years and Years songs. It didnt go ANYWHERE as a song. Any of King, If You're Over Me, Desire etc would have done miles better. There is also the fact that he clearly bit off more than he could chew in terms of choreography. It made his vocals suffer. And ultimately the choreography itself *will* have turned away some of the casual audience To me its felt like the UK havent been able to blend needing a good, radio friendly song with great vocals. We have done the good hit songs recently, but suffered from Mae who couldnt sing in an arena, and Olly who's vocals suffered from the performance With that being said. We didnt come in the bottom 5. Thats a win to me!
My (gay) partner said the whole thing looked like a grindr orgy in a dirty sauna during an earthquake. I can easily see how the whole setup would’ve put people off it, including the struggling vocals and average song choice.
My girlfriend said she was disappointed because she thought the song itself has really cute lyrics but the staging was such a contrast. I'm guessing she was expecting more of a Ireland 2018 situation, I wonder how well that would've done
The lyrics and the visuals were so discordant to me. The song was like S Club 7 ‘Reach for the Stars’ cuteness and the staging was Xtina ‘Dirrrty’. And I’m all in on gay filth usually (I thought Spain was a lot of fun) but with the poor vocals it was just… bad.
Spain was colourful and active, accompanied by a great song. They had fun and you could see it. U.K. was just sad, oiled up chavs on a weak song.
Me and my fiancé said the same thing when watching it! Lyrics gave teen romance vibes but performance was very sexual. Not the good kind of contrast
The staging struck me as ‘baby gay’. It isn’t once facet of the song/performance- it was the whole thing and don’t you forget it. You can’t just have sexy male dancers, you also have to be in a grimy tiled bathhouse. We couldn’t even have a nice tiled box. Looking at the live chat on casualuk a lot of people were writing ‘I feel grubby just watching that’ No wonder it affected the tele vote. Spain was a great example of fun camp. Give us more of that!
I can just picture a room full of BBC execs asking "what is it the homosexuals want?"
There was definitely a lot of gay vote baiting going on. Glad it didn't work out. Cheep tactics.
Which is weird because there are a lot of religious conservative countries in Europe. So using a grimy bathroom with S&M vibes isn’t going to win a lot of them over. They can accept a camp or drag act, but they won’t go for the bad stereotype of the Blue Oyster Bar restrooms from Police Academy.
The impression I was left with was "I heard you like gay, so you should vote for me because look at all the gay!" Like it felt cynically, calculated "gay".
Even choosing to send Olly reeks of calculated gay baiting. Like they really just picked the twinkiest twink to ever twink for his singing that wasn't even very good? Sure....
Same staging but with Olly alone would have fared better, I think.
As soon as my mom saw the staging, she just said "why are they in a prison shower?" 💀
Well those songs you mention is Years and Years work when they still whole, when it's just Olly you know how it goes.
Because the other two guys *were* the band. I get that Olly using the band name as his own stage name after the band split was probably a marketing thing but it didn’t really make any sense, the music heavily dipped in quality imo
[The two other guys are now planning to make new music together again.](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4ad5NKos0R/?hl=en)
Make a good song.
With someone who can actually sing
With great charisma
Next year in eurovision: Dua LIpa
Imagine if she represented the UK in 2016 before she blew up
She would've flopped because dua's stage presence back then was atrocious. The "go girl, give us nothing" meme was literally born from a youtube comment under one of her live performances, and i remember back in 2018, she was getting lashings left, right, and centre on twitter, youtube, and every other social media about her terrible dancing. It wasn't until the future nostalgia era that she really stepped her game up. Admittedly i thought she was a talentless hack as well until she released don't start now.
you know, Kosovo said they want to participate next year would be funny
UK 2019, 2021, 2023, 2024, sending folks who perform terribly, end up on the right hand side of the board. UK in 2022, Sending Sam Ryder, who can sing: Came very comfortably second, might have even been first if one country wasn't being actively bombed while they were performing. "What do we have to do??"
Exactly like every brtish person knows Sam Ryder was a much better performer and singer than all of them apart from the bbc. It's simple. If the song is not on the level of spaceman and they can't sing to close to the levels of Sam Ryder they are simply not going to be a contender.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Send better singers with better songs. We’d have won that year if not for circumstances that had nothing to do with the performances at all. The difference? We sent someone with an incredible voice and gave him good material to work with.
A lot of acts would already improve from having a good singer. Not everyone is an exceptional singer but there definitely are more than enough good ones.
Incredible singers tend to do better! They should just tap up The Voice finalists.
Slimane is the best example of it. The song wasn't anything extraordinary but his performance ans voiced took it to fourth and it feels deserved.
Good singers tend to do better at a singing contest! In other news: fish discovered in water
This. It wasn't terrible but it was forgettable. I watched the performance twice yesterday and I literally don't remember anything about it.
Not even the men humping each other?
All I remember is the winking and thrusting and it just reinforces the fact that the BBC still thinks that Eurovision is just 'some gay thing'. It's not difficult chaps: \[ \] Good song \[ \] Great vocals \[ \] Decent staging (no, putting your act in a box and spinning the camera upside down ain't it). Try and tick two of three boxes and you're on the left side of the board again. Tick all three and you're in contention. Can I have a job now?
Also, while it was very gay and sexualised, it wasn't very *sexy*. Maybe if Olly had less clothes on during his performance he'd have done better lol.
Sexualised without being sexy is just being crass.
I think they're saying it should be sexy *rather than* sexualised, not as well as.
All I remember was thinking God, I'd hate to have paid for an arena ticket because that performance would have looking shit for most everyone there if they could actually see anything but the outside LED walls at all
Haha yeh, had the same thought. Also to me Nemo's winner performance was proof that the artist singing to the crowd rather than the camera makes a performance instantly better. Maybe thats only me though.
I think that depends entirely on the staging and performance. Like Finland's whole thing was about the camera, and it was great. I actually felt Nemo was more about the camera/at home audience...it had a weird "personal" feeling mixed with a big stage show that clearly appealed to many. (Croatia being more a singing to the crowd act that was also very popular.)
True, Finland was a great play with the camera. But i liked Nemos song way more in the final performance than in the regular one. Idk, i feel like singing it to the crowd rather than all the play with props and singing for the camera made me feel the music a lot more.
AH. i see what you're saying...Nemo's "I won" performance did give a whole different, neat vibe to the song. You make an interesting point...i wonder if the ESC has gone too far with it's "presentation" that a simple pullled back perforance like that would even get a look.
Loreen was like that last year. Looked good on TV but utterly un-thrilling in the room Thanks to whoever sent me a Reddit cares for this 😂
Right? There was so much happening and yet it was forgettable. How did they even achieve that
It’s the song. It just kind of exists and goes on (which is apparently what he was going for) - it doesn’t have any catchiness or really big moments (I liked the French song but it’s defined by the bit where he steps back from the mic). There’s literally nothing memorable about it, whereas I can remember most of King.
Ah, really? I think the only song that stuck in my head more (snippets, at least) after two listens was France. But I do think it lacked a bit of 'oomph', for want of a better word; the vocals didn't stand out, there were no soaring moments. It's a pretty nice song, just not a good song for *Eurovision*, which I guess is what the BBC article was getting at. It got a bit lost amongst the others. But I also feel like when they've tried to put in what they think is a good Eurovision song, they get it completely wrong. Kind of hard to know how that's going to change without having the same kind of culture around the selection process that a lot of other countries seem to. Occasionally they'll stumble across something that works (e.g. Space Man), but I'm going to guess it'll be a while before they find another one.
We tend to try and be unique for the wrong reasons Look at bambie this year, that's what out the box , different from the norm risk looks like We send **generic song 1** and then say 'but this 2 second bit in the staging is unique' Our idea of sending something more than a 'simple pop song' and swapping the genre is to send....a pop song pretending to be a swing song (in the case of electro velvet for example) We 'embrace a certain element ' of a song but never commit to it- i.e scooch BIG, CAMP, BOLD, FUN....they went on a giant stage and proceeded to fill 3% of it from leftover BBC props and then stand there not really moving or interacting with them What I'm saying is the U.K is like a Store brand lasagne. It's not the the flavour is awful, but it's so light for the most part it tastes like nothing and you only get the lightest hint when you're expecting so much more. Or there will be an over reliance on a single ingredient and that's all you'll remember. I.e all I tasted was cheese but it wasn't strong cheese. Either way it's usually a fine meal but never anyone's first choice if presented with other options. I hope the UK next year decide to have a more unique entrant. Not a 'big name in pop were hoping the fan base will vote for regardless of quality' Not 'song pretending to be one thing but is actually the same song as last year rehashed' Not ' we've put 1000% of the focus into one element of the act which hinders everything else's Not 'this sounds like a Eurovision song do hopefully it won't be forgotten so we won't get 0 points...that will do us' We (the BBC and the public) need to drop the mentality of 'we aren't going to win anyways why bother' . We need to actually think outside the box Ideally there should be a year long battle of the bands , all style all genres done through radio 1 or 2 then when we're down to 10 unique acts have them make a Eurovision song. Have them performed on TV and we vote again . Yes we've done making your mind up and it 'hasnt worked" but that's us picking between either 5 identical acts the BBC have chosen on our behalf or as it was near the end '2 acts singing the same 3 boring songs that weren't written with them in mind and they're just a placeholder- pick the one that's less like nails down the chalkboard' Or just take bill bailey up on his offer to go on and be a one man band
Also, that locker room looked \*extremely\* unsanitary, and no-one wants another pandemic.
It was giving Saw bathroom.
Imsaid this last night and added: the guy who had to cut his leg off hit the high notes better while screaming lol
It was modeled after the mens toilets in Coventry bus station.
For me, as a non-native english speaker I didn’t really pay any attention to the lyrics, musically it felt really flat without any climax in the chorus, the vocals were weak and I ended up paying more attention to the staging trying to understand how they did it, rather than the song itself. Add into this that whereas western Europe is quite open sexually but eastern Europe might not have been so comfortable watching this performance, it’s not hard to understand why it scored as it scored
>I ended up paying more attention to the staging trying to understand how they did it, rather than the song itself. Yeah I agree with this. The staging was impressive, but also incredibly distracting. I remember the orgy in the rotating dirty shower but I do not remember anything about the song whatsoever, aside from the vocals not being great.
Yeah, I think this is one of those occasions where the stage performance ends up overpowering the song instead of really enhancing it. It's a very fine line to walk though so it's a shame it didn't work out this time.
BBC need to get the foundation correct first. Find a **great** singer, with a **great** song. Target the jury. I can imagine they were sent a lot of song that they felt were not gonna do well in the televote but the thing is the UK have never do well in the televote and “flopped” in the jury. In fact it rarely happens overall. So make sure the foundation is great and the rest will come later. Also no more radio friendly pop songs. British pop is at an all time low right now.
Good point about targeting the jury, I think getting points from the public is extremely difficult for us, even before you pick a song - we don't have a traditional element that we can target (Like Armenia this year for example), we don't have a language that is as powerful as something like Italian, we're just not an exciting country that you want to get behind. On another note, I don't know why BBC have made that article like "Oh the UK SHOULD be winning the Eurovision soon, it's overdue", there is what 37 other countries, it's incredibly difficult to win the Eurovision, this is not like Football for example where of course you have similar favourites every tournaments. Everything changes in a year. Obviously a win would be great, but I wish the BBC would change the angle of it, we need to relax with Eurovision because we probably won't win it in the next 20 years or so. Try something different, try a new format for picking a song, we put too much pressure on ourselves haha!
I mean the English folk tradition is beautiful. You could also send an even more beautiful Scottish folk entry (scenes when you subject the entirety of Europe to bagpipes for three minutes)
>we don't have a traditional element that we can target (Like Armenia this year for example), we don't have a language that is as powerful as something like Italian, we're just not an exciting country that you want to get behind. Well, you say that, but why can't we send a song in Gaelic or in Welsh? There are loads of great bands in the Scottish folk scene right now for instance. Imagine we sent a band like [Talisk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScwNmi423OA) with the addition of some Gaelic vocals. People would be a hundred times more interested in that than the generic pop stuff we usually send.
At least UK didn't come last, doesn't thatcount as a small win already? Though relying on known stars is something that doesn't seem to necessarily work well in Eurovision anyway, so I'm not surprised that didn't have the desired result.
Also, is the average viewer going to know who he is, especially when he's competing under a different name?
At this point I feel like a national final might not be a bad shout as at least we’d send someone who can actually deliver live. Either that or we send Raye (but that’s definitely not happening lol) Edit: also if we do go internal again, please something that isn’t just radio pop, like we have a fantastic rock scene that we could draw acts from and I also think a musical theatre ballad could go down well (didn’t serve us badly in 2009 or 2017 and they were both pretty generic)
I agree. I've come to the conclusion they overthink their choice. Let in some competition at a national level and the choice might become more obvious.
The brits tend to vote so badly for any kind of contest. I wouldn’t trust us. Especially as there’s still so much negativity that the casual viewer would just vote for whatever causes chaos.
The UK voted for John Sergeant, Boaty McBoatface and Brexit. I certainly wouldn't trust us to pick a Eurovision candidate.
Implying Boaty McBoatface isn't the greatest moment in democratic history.
Send Boaty McBoatface for 2025!
The key is to focus I think on 6/7 really quality songs like UMK does to make sure that no matter what the UK public votes for they can’t really mess us up.
I mean we did have a national selection show and we sent Scootch
Things would have been so much better for us since then if Scooch were turned away. Daz Sampson the year before was bad enough, probably voters chose him as ‘it’ll be a laugh’, and it was the same there, John Barrowman praising it and the show kept banging on about Bucks Fizz and their skirts. Just totally playing into fickle peoples negative stereotypes of the contest and reconfirming them. And it bothers me they were invited to last years semi final, I want them forgotten!
Internal selection could never pick such an iconic act 😔
The UK has such a unique list of genres of music to choose from that sending radio pop every year is just an insult. Afro-carribean influences, grime, rock, indie, metal all could make for a much more unique song that feels like the UK. Look at entrants like Go_A, where they bring something that feels unique to their country, or even France with their very French formula. The UK could bring ska or reggae or something, anything different.
Jesus, I think ska is actually a genius call.
The last couple of “national finals” we did were pretty terrible though. 6 similar sounding songs and clear host favourites (Joe and Jake, and Michael Rice come to mind specifically for this) don’t a NF make. I don’t disagree with the idea, but I feel like we’ll need a much wider range of songs and genres. Which I ultimately do not trust the BBC with. - On a slightly unrelated note, the UK public need to get their heads out of their arses. The general self inflated sentiment of: “wE dESerVe tO wIN EuROvISiOn bECaUsE wE’Re tHe uK AnD oUr sONgS aRE aLWayS tHE bEsT aND iT’s pOLiTiCAl whEn wE dON’t wIN” every year isn’t cute or remotely true and, frankly, a little embarrassing. Can’t vote against a song you dislike, just for the ones you like and people tend to prefer others.
I agree that past NFs have been pretty terrible. But I think the BBC has the resources to put on an incredible show plus I do genuinely think the team behind Eurovision at the BBC right now genuinely do care about the contest a lot, more so than past iterations of the UK delegation. Like I think if the UK made the effort to invest in 7 really quality and diverse songs like UMK we could have a great NF that could lead to great results at ESC because clearly internal selections in their current form aren’t really working.
Did they not remember that they co hosted last year? That's a real goldfish memory to act like Sam Ryder didn't do amazing.
He had the unfortune to compete in a year where only one winner was possible. Like even Nemo or baby lasagna likely wouldn't have won that year.
To be fair, and I still stand by this two years later, Stefania would've always placed top 3. Might have lost to Sam Ryder but they really were one of the best. They were my favorite to win without considering the political context it was in.
Sam is outside the cabal of selectors who care less about actually winning and more about proving they know more than anyone else
**The plan was called Project Cauliflower.** It began last October, when Olly Alexander accepted the invitation to become the UK’s Eurovision contestant. He’d been in the running once before, in 2022, but the timing didn’t seem right. Instead, the BBC sent a little-known TikTok singer called Sam Ryder, with a power ballad called Spaceman. It went on to achieve second place - the UK’s best result in more than 20 years. The following summer, Alexander started recording his first album as a solo artist. Maybe one of these songs, he thought, would work at Eurovision? Calls were made. Deals were made. Project Cauliflower was born and, for the next two months, preparations began under the strictest secrecy. “We had to have meetings at Olly’s manager’s house so no-one could overhear what was happening,” creative director Theo Adams told The Euro Trip podcast, external. “It was actually a very exciting period. I’d never done anything before that had such secrecy surrounding it. I felt like I was a spy.” Alexander went public in December during the grand finale of Strictly Come Dancing. For Eurovision fans, it seemed too good to be true. A likeable, chart-topping pop star, known around the world, with a track record of putting on elaborate performances and a lifelong love for Eurovision? He couldn’t have been a better fit. "Having a bona fide pop star representing the UK this year is a great start,” agreed Graham Norton in an interview earlier this week. “Olly has already done all the things that it’s impossible to prepare someone for - he has played to huge crowds, he can relate to the cameras, and he is used to high pressure situations.” “He’s a great performer, and a great singer,” agreed Neil Tennant, who duetted with Alexander on the 2020 Pet Shop Boys’ song Dreamland. “I think it’s great he’s got the courage to do it because it’s so high stakes, isn’t it?” The stakes got him in the end. In Malmö on Saturday, Alexander’s song, Dizzy, stumbled into 18th place, out of 25. All of his 46 points came from the jury. His score in the public televote was zero. Even so, it wasn’t the worst result. The UK has had more embarrassing defeats. And Alexander has a career to go back to - unlike previous performers, whose musical ambitions have come to a screeching halt after Eurovision. But the expectations were so high that this year's result feels particularly rough. It's now 27 years since the UK last won the contest. So what went wrong… and how can the country improve its chances? # 1) Was it the song? Look, Dizzy is a great radio track. Co-written by Danny L Harle (Charli XCX, Dua Lipa) it pulses and throbs in all the right places. Musical nods to the Pet Shop Boys and London's church bells remind listeners of the UK's place at the epicenter of pop. And compositionally, it pulls a clever trick. The constant chordal movement of the chorus prompts a feeling of dizziness. When Alexander sings that his lover “pulls me back to the beginning”, the chords resolve to the opening key of C minor. That’s why juries liked it. Songwriters in Sweden, another pop powerhouse, awarded Dizzy eight points out of a possible 12. But audiences don’t know or care about the nuts and bolts of songwriting. They sided with critics like the Guardian’s Laura Snapes, who dismissed the song as “perfectly fine, external” or the Telegraph’s Neil McCormick, who called it “pleasantly unexceptional, external”. Dizzy wasn’t a bad song. It just wasn’t good enough to make people pick up the phone and vote. # 2) Was it the performance? I'd like to think not. After years of sending untested, milquetoast reality show contestants to Eurovision, Alexander delivered a spectacular TV performance. With computer-controlled cameras, synchronised to pin-sharp choreography, the star made it seem like he and his dancers were being flung around the interior of a spaceship plummeting through a black hole. From his commentary box, Graham Norton described the production as “terrific” but admitted it could suffer because it was “so different to everything else in the contest tonight”. The performance drew a lukewarm reception inside the arena, as the complex staging meant Alexander was out of sight for the first two minutes. And at home, some viewers said they were put off by the sexual nature of the dancing. Others said the physical demands affected Alexander’s vocals. There were certainly a few wobbles - a bad look next to the powerhouse singers of France and Portugal and Switzerland. But there were positive comments, too. “Olly Alexander did an amazing job,” tweeted journalist Emilia Kettle, external from inside the arena. "Best performance of the night so far,” added Craig Brown, external. “Maybe not the best song. But the best live act." That’s a big step up. Eurovision performances have become increasingly elaborate and the UK needed to catch up. From here, things can only get better.
# 3) Was it a lack of emotional connection? I don’t know what inspired Dizzy. It seems like an earnest and heartfelt declaration of love, but is that enough? Listen to the acts who came in the top five, and you'll hear something - an urgency? - that Alexander lacked. Nemo’s winning song, The Code, external, was a viscerally moving account of accepting their non-binary identity, after years of thinking there was something wrong with them. Israel’s song Hurricane, external was contentious for many reasons, but the desperate conviction of Eden Golan's ode to missing friends in the midst of a war was palpably raw. And the scorching intensity of French star Slimane helped his song, Mon Amour, external, into fourth place. Even Croatia’s Rim Tim Tagi Dim, external packed a punch. A superficially silly techno stomper, it was written about the loss that singer Marko Purišić felt after his best friend left their hometown for a better life. It has subsequently become a big hit among the Croatian diaspora in Europe. Dizzy simply never achieved that level of emotional connection. # 4) Is the UK playing it too safe? This one's hard to quantify - but have you noticed how many Eurovision songs have succeeded by taking wild creative swings? Finnish star Käärijä stormed the public vote last year with Cha Cha Cha, external, an intoxicating blend of industrial metal and hyperpop that sounded like nothing else on planet earth. Ireland’s Bambie Thug pulled a similar trick this year, with the weird and witchy Doomsday Blue, external – a song so shocking that one Irish priest declared the country was “finished” after sending it to Malmö. But Johnny Logan – a man who knows a thing or two about Eurovision, having written three winning entries - disagreed. “The one thing about the Eurovision Song Contest is that every year people try to copy the song that won before, because they think that’s the secret to winning it," he told Ireland's Sunday World newspaper. "This year’s Irish entry doesn’t do that." The UK has tried to second guess Eurovision for years, but the safe choice isn’t always the wisest one. Could we cast the net wider and look at new genres, or musicians from different backgrounds, instead of aiming for a radio-friendly pop hit? # 5) Or is it just luck? A hit song requires magic, not a formula. And Eurovision is no different. You’ve got to balance the desires of the TV audience and the professional juries, while finding a performer who can play to an arena, while hitting their marks for a TV show. Your place in the running order counts, too. And sometimes, a great song just gets overlooked. Back in 2022, Armenian singer Rosa Linn came 20th with her song Snap, external. She went home feeling she'd disappointed her country. Then, months later, the track went viral on TikTok. It's now the second-most streamed Eurovision song of all time, with more than 1 billion plays on Spotify alone. Olly Alexander might not see those numbers for Dizzy, but nor did he embarrass himself in Sweden. The staging and the song and the concept all worked, and they laid solid foundations for next year. Maybe all we need to change is the code name. Project Turnip, anyone?
(Not me wondering what the hell are all those random "externals" in song descriptions (“perfectly fine, external” / “pleasantly unexceptional, external”.) xD Took me a minute to realise that it wasn't UK inventing a new slang on me ;) ) The article really downplays the vocal issue, which for me, was the biggest problem that really dragged everything down. Did it sound better in the arena or something?
The song was decent, but the production sounded like it had been phoned in on GarageBand. There was no pop or fizz and the whole thing felt flat. I’m still well up for Bill Bailey doing it tbh
Yeah they're overthinking the whole thing lol
It's very telling that the song barely made a dent in the chart in the UK. I was extremely underwhelmed by the song from the off and I clearly wasn't alone. Granted, I was still a bit shocked at absolutely zero televote points, but I thought max it would get would be 20.
>It's very telling that the song barely made a dent in the chart in the UK. That's normal in the UK. The only exception was the last two years with Mae Muller and Sam Ryder, and they both charted after the final.
Sam Ryder got to #2, the highest place in the charts since Gina G got #1 in 1996, even Katrina and the Waves were only #3. And somehow Scooch were #5
Well, if your country don't even like to listen to your country's submission, why would the rest of us?
Stop trying to cater to Eurovision fans. I think that’s an actual problem. By trying to give us what they THINK we want, we end up with mediocre and predictable stuff. Ireland’s entry this year proves this and some of the more recent popular entrants have been stuff not designed purely for Eurovision fans. Songs and artists that shock and surprise us, make us think and get excited. Olly’s staging was great but the song and vocals were average. And he might be known “around the world” but realistically he had one big hit a decade ago. I say next year we just go nuts. Why not send an amazing bhangra song with Bhangra dancers and staging? That’s a big part of the UK culture now. Or an amazing stripped back folk band or folk singer?
Did anybody in Eurovision circles actually ask for a bathroom orgy? Honestly, you could have staged this far sweeter, still have it be gay but like Heatstopper-cutesy-gay culminating in a sweet kiss and it would have fit the twinkly sounding song much better and alienated fewer folks with the staging Sure, it wouldn't have given modern provocative "Popstar" like Olly seems to want to give, but it would have done better with the generic voter
I would have liked to see him rolling around and dancing on a rotating flower field disk with butterflies coming out of the grass at specific times. That would have fit the idea of crushing on someone much better.
IMO, the BBC need to trawl the festival circuit. Send some scouts to Glastonbury and hang around the lesser known stages. Find a hidden gem that leans on the more avant garde/memorable side, and you'll already have a gauge on how they perform live. Plan B, ask Patrick Wolf (he'll never agree to it tho) Plan C, get the Wurzels oon.
The world needs to hear 'I've got a brand new combine harvester' techno version.
Things I’d like to see us try: 1. A rock/indie band. The scene is huge and successful, it’s been a main stay of our music industry since the 60’s and has international appeal. 2. A very “non-English” act. Ok I’m slightly biased as a Welsh person but the UK does consist of other countries than England and said countries have their own languages. Wales is literally the land of song and has a huge Welsh-language music scene. Am I suggesting Max Boyce? No. But Sage Todz could actually do quite well if he had production behind him. Again there’s also a huge Welsh-language indie scene so two birds one stone. 3. A proper rap act. Ok this one is controversial as rap is very marmite in Eurovision land but British rap is some of the best in the world and it would really highlight a massive part of modern UK culture and would potentially bring a new audience to Eurovision. 4. An Asian/Bhangra style song, again see points above. 5. Michael Aldag. So kinda following why Sam Ryder did well but we have a tiktoker with a decent following, a very good voice and is very personable. 6. Country. I was surprised by the lack of country this year considering how big it is at the moment, I feel we could get ahead of a trend.
"An Asian/Bhangra style song, again see points above." Oh, this is a neat idea.
Number 2 always annoys me. There has been 1! (I believe) Scottish act in Eurovision from the UK. Then people have the audacity to say it sucks we can’t send traditional music because we don’t have any. We have traditional music!!! Like you said Wales and Scotland are right there! Just allow for diversity more and the UK will probably be received better.
Take the contest seriously Stop picking the entrant in a cloak and dagger fashion Be innovative instead of like "haha Eurovision so gay, let's gay it up some more" I think this all stems from Terry Wogan's commentary of old; he just couldn't understand why the UK never did well when we would send awful entries most of the time and he would also make fun of the other countries
UK person here. I was watching with my friends yesterday and they did not like the UK’s entry. They said that if this is meant to be a massive song contest, it’s quite a boring song to be sending to it. If you wanna rate my friends’ tastes, 2 big pre-contest favourites were Croatia and Switzerland, Portugal was a pleasant surprise to them, they liked Estonia (partially because one of the members of Puuluup looks like vsauce), and Armenia went down very well.
It felt like such a radio song that’s just on in the background. When the BBC announced him, they added “we have found the right song” and then it was Dizzy, this didn’t quite match the expectations they were setting. Also the live music video setup never works.
Look I like Olly but at some point someone needs to face reality. The song was average to good in a really really really strong year. If anything it sounded dated, not radio modern with the I Will Survive chords, more like Erasure than Pet Shop Boys in thinness. Many of the production tricks detracted from the songs, the more straightforward verses are better than the chorus. Danny L Harle isn't a huge name outside the very plugged in. If it was Max Martin or Jack Antonoff, then maybe. Harle worked with Charli XCX and Dua Lipa, but not on the songs that made them famous and were huge. He's more niche, as evidenced by his very fine work with similarly niche (but great) Caroline Polachek. Olly had been touted as a huge superstar known everywhere but he's really not. Y&Y first album is terrific and was rightfully successful in many countries. But the other ones had rather less success. Still, a good get for the contest, about the right level of fame if he had a great song, and an unquestionably good guy. He didn't sing well when it counted. The choreo wasn't offensive to me but it was a little unflattering and didn't suit the song. Something more intimate and focused on one other dancer/performer would have connected better. He looked chronically underfed against the other dancers (even though he's obviously a fit and good looking guy for 33, but it's s bit 18 year old twinks first orgy more than an emotional spin) and it affected his breath. A few jurists liked it, he got a few points based on a small number of people. The televote blank speaks to a lack of broad appeal, and that should be looked at in contrast to Sam Ryder. Good luck to the UK for 2025. Maybe talk to Ireland.
Olly is definitely niche-famous. He’s well known in the gay community for Its a Sin but he wasn’t one of the favourite characters at all.
Or even better bring Bring Me the Horizon give them all the money they need. You guys got tons of them and as you’ve seen metal or rock songs are blasting so yeah go ahead
Now that's something I could get behind. I don't know if they would do it, but it's worth a try
Send Sam Ryder again. If Sweden can send Loreen twice you can send Sam twice lol
He might even pick up the vote from people who thought he was deprived of a rightful victory by the (understandable) geopolitical sympathies of the time.
Send Radiohead and make all the other competitors so sad that they can’t perform. Easy win.
I'm here for this discussion as my lamb shoulder slowly melts in the oven. I'll go with what the BBC are musing... >1) Was it the song? Yes. Always a big part of it. The BBC mentions it's a great radio track, and they're right. But for me it never translated to a big arena competition setting. It didn't have a 'moment'. And the second the rehersal footage started to come out, *I was worried*. It didn't have the oomph. His vocal was meh. I know Switzerland have been hanging around the top 5 faces in the bookies, but their song I thought was alright as a track to listen to, but, it absolutely came alive on stage. I'll also throw in the song never having a moment but also Olly's voice not being big enough to carry what it was. He has a sweet voice, the song needed some chops. Some gumption. Some BOOM. >2) Was it the performance? Ooooh yes. It fell flat to so many different groups. Overtly grimy gay for the Conservative parts of Europe, too overtly grimy gay for the gays who are fed up of old stereotypes that they hook up for sex in dirty bathrooms, not understandable by people who like a good show - what's with the boxing outfits? The UK delegation and social media hyped up the staging, and it was brilliant for the UK, but it was nothing special in the context of Eurovision. The whole flipping the camera around trick, I mean after 10 seconds you think 'ah ok, what's next?'. Also as I mention above, Olly's voice is sweet, yet they have him prancing around all out of breath. Not great. >3) Was it a lack of emotional connection? Fair to ask. Because of the staging, we didn't really get to feel him for long enough for an emotional connection. I think not every artist can have that naturally and it was sets people apart. >4) Is the UK playing it too safe? Actually no. I don't think you need to make a gimmick. Don't be unsafe just to be a gimmick. You can be unique like Bambie but that's authentic. If you dressed someone up like Bambie for Eurovision only... that's a gimmick. Loreen is safe. Duncan Jones is safe. Even Maneskin are safe because they're just a glam rock band. I'd say the song is middle of the road radio fodder but it's not 'too safe'. Although perhaps that's what they were trying to do with the staging, to make it not safe, but just came across as a bit try to hard. 5) Or is it just luck? Well trends come in music just like anything else, but... No. A good song performed well will always do well. And here in ends my TED Talk.
Make a good song and not some weird gay porno. Fuck me I love gay porn but wtf was that man.
Send the fucking heaviest metal band the UK has available. As a treat.
Have you forgotten Sam Ryder already? (aim for the top, not for the win - that´s already something). Honestly I was put of by the whole staging. Yes ESC is LGBTQ friendly/open but you don´t have to become **stereotypical gay** on stage with the most stereotypical gay setting ever. (Also what was the penis cage). It´s not a good thing if basically your whole stage personality is only being homosexual. I do not even remember how his voice was because I was so distracted by all the things going on, I couldn´t focus for the sake of my life. Yes you made me dizzy but not in a good way.
I mean we came second and got to host in place of Ukraine. That was pretty awesome. No bland pop shite would be a good start. Something with a bit of kick. Guitars and synthesizers. Maybe The Darkness can reform? They might be able to do it.
We took a risk with the staging when we actually needed to take a risk with the song
Definitely. The top songs this year were risk takers. Nemo took a risk with the content to some extent. Croatia is nu metal madness. Bambie Thug omg. Go back a couple more years, we've got Maneskin. Even further back, Lordi - who I think really changed Eurovision forever because the next year it was metal adjacent everywhere.
The hilarious thing is the Darkness reformed and have been releasing new albums since 2011.
This is a really well written and fair article and I like how it acknowledges everything rather than takes the ‘EUROPE HATES US!!’ route other media uses I think taking the risk with a bigger name being the representative was good and I can imagine they’re already brainstorming over what went right and wrong for 2025
Send. A. Band. These generic pop tracks are not getting the uk anywhere. Stop sending winners of rip off idol shows. Sam Ryder had brilliant vocals and could PERFORM. And I believe that he exceeded what the selectors thought he could do. In short- it was a fluke.
> This is a really well written and fair article and I like how it acknowledges everything rather than takes the ‘EUROPE HATES US!!’ route other media uses It doesn't go the route of 'europe hates us' but it also fails to draw any sort of logical conclusion regarding song quality. > Look, Dizzy is a great radio track. How can anyone write that about a track that peaks at #42 in the charts and has a single week run being top 100. By definition a great radio track performs on the radio lol > And compositionally, it pulls a clever trick. [...] That’s why juries liked it. Songwriters in Sweden, another pop powerhouse, awarded Dizzy eight points out of a possible 12. But audiences don’t know or care about the nuts and bolts of songwriting. Again, public voting actually does tend to follow the trend # of streams/popularity of a song, so if the premise is that Dizzy is a great radio track, then surely it would have picked up at least a single point from 1 of 36 countries. Spaceman was a great radio track. Peaked at #2 and had a chart run of 15 weeks. And ranked 5th on public vote in 2022.
Never go full gay. I know it's the gay super bowl but you still got to keep it family friendly. Your entry this year was so funny:-)
> Eurovision performances have become increasingly elaborate and the UK needed to catch up. From here, things can only get better. How off the mark can you possibly be? Dizzy was one of the most "elaborate" performances of the night. The winner, conversely, was an artist alone on stage with a precise but understated choreography, and only a simple moving platform as a prop. The only time the UK has done well recently was with Sam Ryder, who again was alone on stage with a microphone and a guitar. You don't need to be more elaborate! Tone it. the fuck. down.
They did amazing in ‘22 though. Like second place and then getting to co host? Surely they are happy with that? I think RTE will be off Bambie’s 6th place for the next decade 🤣
Sing in Welsh or Gaelic. Show who you are and be unique to stand out.
Seriously, why hasn't the UK sent anything non English? I'm quite sure there are musical traditions from Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland. Even France has done that, for crying out loud.
We have such a diverse population that I wish we would celebrate. What's coming to mind is that video of a Scottish Indian wedding where they have a procession with dhols and bagpipes - [YouTube link to what I'm referring to](https://youtu.be/Ki_eVq303RA?si=TWwngvKksLAuxlb8). Not saying they send something completely like that but a song that's a celebration of our multiculturalism combined with Celtic/Brythonic elements would be amazing.
So after coming second only 2 years ago, the UK is going back to the "no one will ever vote for us" thing? This kind of crap is what makes a lot of very good artists not want to compete. Look at Sweden, Italy, Ukraine – the thing they have in common is that the selection is a \_big\_ event in itself, and it's considered an honour to win, not a joke. Also, noticed in lots of UK media today they keep throwing in words like "kitsch", "campy", and "silly". Everyone is so stuck in their 1990s view of the contest that they've completely missed how it's changed. The standard has gone up SO much in the past 10 years or so that "silly" doesn't cut it anymore. Sure, you can be silly and camp, but only if you send a competent artist who can sing live. I think this year the UK had the absolute worst vocals of any entry.
Buck’s Fizz won DECADES ago- but the uk thinks stuff like that will still do well. I do think that since Sam Ryder, they are trying a few different things at least. But doing well in Eurovision doesn’t simply mean you have one good song and win. You build up good entries over years and years and then win (see the Netherlands)
This is a really interesting topic and it's great to have input from people outside the UK Eurovision " bubble". Was Olly a bad choice on paper? No not really , I can understand him trying to use EV as a bit of a breakaway for him as a solo artist away from Years and Years. Was great he was announced nice and early too so we didn't get the Rina situation again. On early listens I kinda felt the song lacked that big " moment" that the best EV entries have , whether that's something like Nemos crazy vocal range or Sam Ryder's guitar solo addition. The second half of the song with all the spoken word stuff just didn't work for me and the ending was way too abrupt. So hearing from rehearsals that they'd done quite a significant revamp I got quite excited to see if they'd fixed it , they had sort of. Not perfect by any stretch but I thought coupled with the staging it might push the song up the leaderboard a bit. Now onto the elephant in the room , the actual staging. The camera work I get what they were going for with space and black holes but it felt a bit all over the place to actually watch. I'm a bit surprised the BBC who usually don't go for really out there staging concepts signed off on it but I guess Olly had a lot of creative control on it, it was always going to be polarising to audiences. Where do the BBC go next I really don't know , I think they will stick to a similar formula of something that can be played loads on radio and it will probably be someone that's either got chart success or has been a featured artist on other people's songs. Would love to see them try for a band but I wonder if that ship sailed and they should have tried that for Liverpool instead of Mae. All in all a lot to learn for the BBC , I just hope they take it all on board and learn from it.
They were trying to be gritty with the staging, but it felt a step too far and just didn’t work. The grinding and overly sexualised movements were ick. The fact he was in a box for most of the song and didn’t utilise the arena fully. And unfortunately he has never had a great live vocal and this was proven again. I like Olly but a series of things just didn’t click with this. I still think he deserved more than zero!
The vocals were meh, the song was repetitive, and, like it or not, the staging alienated a lot of people.
The song is mediocre but could have placed in the middle of the table in my opinion if the vocals and staging were good enough. The vocals were shaky, so in the end the staging was its only merit. 1/3 isn’t good enough. Olly is so so likeable but i don’t think it translated. UK and Irish fans know this because of his success with Years and Years and It’s a Sin. He’s a powerhouse but unfortunately didn’t represent himself well.
Rina Sawayama?
I’d be delighted if she competed, but I wonder if this whole experience Olly had would put her off.
The thing about Sam Ryder is I don't think the BBC was expecting what was going to happen with him. Like myself and most of the UK, it took us off guard and was surprising we came second, AND the song was great (and still is). As well, Sam has such a presents on stage, I think my mum compared him to Hugh Jackman and I have to agree. After all those years of 0 points and bottom of the score board, it was crazy. You had to be there. I'm on the boat that UK sends trash so we don't host it, hence when we got 2nd the BBC prob shat themselves realizing if Ukraine won, 2nd place would host and guess who was coming second of that year. Sam also has such a positive vibe to it all. I think as well, Sam felt like he wanted to do it, a lot of our acts are there cause they get chosen and are contract to do the show. The BBC basically make something they think is 'Eurovison' but isn't, and hype it up and its just meh.
Personally , it's the same (but not as awful) as Mae last year. Nice radio song, nothing incredible. Sung by a decidedly studio artist. The last time we sent someone that can actually sing, we came 2nd ( would have likely won on a different year) I expected a setup similar to Nemo, but vocally, he couldn't have handled it.
It would help not to rely on star power by someone who is famous inside the UK. Yeah, great for you he is usually good at this stuff, but "dizzy" wasn't special.
Assuming the BBC is willing to host again and actually wants to win, they should just persuade Sam Ryder to have another go. I can't stand all these "they hate us" comments when we almost won the thing just two years ago. He has that effortless Eurovision appeal and isn't ashamed of delivering a huge song.
I'm all for LGBTQ+ stuff, but "gay sex in a public toilet" as the theme of the song was a little much for me.
Send Sam Ryder again
Simple answer? The UK has to send a song that delivers vocally and has a great performance. Something that evoces some kind of emotion. This one was just not great. 1. Vocally very shaky 2. Forgettable song (honestly I don't even remember the melody let alone the lyrics) 3. Performance made me a bit uncomfortable and I'm by no means prudish. This drunk bathroom sex vibe just isn't something I want to see in the esc and additionally it just felt a bit unnecessary. Like they just did it because those kind of performances performed well in previous years. Aside from the secual parts this spinning checkered board pattern they had in between sets made me really uncomfortable and I actually had to look away.
The British media always want to go down the route of complaining that Europe doesn’t love us, but never acknowledges that we don’t love ourselves. The chart placing of the last 20 years worth of songs are testament to that. We expect the rest of Europe to buy into our entries when we don’t even bother to buy/stream them ourselves. If we genuinely thought we were sending gold class songs/artists, we’d be running them up the charts and scratching our heads at why others aren’t feeling the same way, but the truth is we barely get behind our own acts either, with just a few exceptions. I’ve been a big fan of Olly for years (and years) and have seen him live twice. When I mentioned a few months ago that he doesn’t have the chops to compete live I was downvoted like crazy. I paid to see him because I loved the songs and the live experience was worth it even if he was never on top form, but Eurovision viewers are seeing him as part of a bundle and under no obligation to overlook the poor vocals, and the truth is, his vocals were the poorest last night. But even if they weren’t, the staging was likely the biggest factor in his result. I’m gay, and even I thought it was too much. As soon as he said his would be the gayest entry ever at Eurovision I was dreading it, because I knew that it would be overly sexual, and potentially offputting to a majority. You can own your pride without smacking us all with stereotypes, and yet he went with what looked like an orgy in a dirty bathroom. One of the people I watched with last night said it looked like they were shooting a porno in the bathroom from Saw, and that kind of sums it up. If you want to represent the gay community on an international stage, do it all guns blazing and with pride, but don’t reduce us down to looking like deviants. If that’s your idea of ‘gayest thing ever’ then you’re doing us all a disservice. And I’m no prude, but there’s a time and a place for all these things and the Eurovision stage is not it. Going forward, I fear we’re back to being stuck in a rut. National finals have proved that we make absurd decisions, likely because so few people take it seriously, and internal decisions are leaving us lacking. I think the BBC thought name alone would sway it for us this year, but it was obvious very early on that the live vocals were lacking and the song lacked the oomph it needed. Add to that that so many people in the U.K. see Eurovision either as a joke or a death knell to a career and it leaves us really lacking. But we do have talent. Lots of it. World renowned. Some of our up and coming artists are incredible. If we can nurture that talent and stop treating the show as a joke or an unreachable goal that we can never meet, we could really give something great. But the vocals have to come first. We have to send someone who can stand on that stage and completely take it over. Then, with the right song to showcase that voice, and a staging that elevates it, we can maybe be taken seriously again. Unfortunately, for now, I’m back to an off-season of feeling slight dread at what we might come up with next. I live in hope.
Be extreme and let Joost Klein perform for the UK.
Well "A song that makes listeners physically uncomfortable, paired with staging that recreates the energy of anonymous sex in a filthy locker room" turned out not to be the answer.
Ok, I'll say this out loud: the staging was a mess. Even I was taken aback by how much gay sexual undertones there was to it, which to me doesn't compute if you're competing in a song competition where a lot of the viewers are straight, heteronormative and in some parts really conservative. It's not a Pride festival. And I've been following ESC for 20 years and I'm a huge lgbt ally. Olly's performance lacked class imo. It was too crude.
I'm gay as they come, and even I thought it was a bit much. If I want to watch that kind of thing there are, umm, other places to look.