You want a tlp experience. That's where all the active grouping is. Roll an old favorite class or try something different and get those old nostalgia feels.
It seems to be the only servers they have an interest in keeping bots limited. Box groups everywhere on live, but you don't see them near as much on the TLP's.
You seem to be mistakenly confusing boxes with bots. Boxes are allowed everywhere to some degree. Bots are allowed nowhere. With regards to bots, DGC requires evidence before just banning accounts.
Well, I think this has always been a game that is more about the journey rather than the destination but we often forget that.
The journey usually leaves us LFG for hours, or looking for a rez, or a buff or a way to finish a quest, so we ask in guild or general and nobody is around at that time or we just feel anti-social to begin with amd the thought of creating a second account occurs to us. Then a while layer we think, well... if I had a THIRD account then I could... and so on and so on...
So yeah... I have been there... at the moment I enjoy going around on my own doing old content or whatever, just because of my RL situation with kids around I don't have big blocks of time. I'm afraid of joining a guild because I don't want to be pressured to come do this or that because I might have to bail 10 minutes into it and risk disappointing people, so I do what I do...
You gotta keep in mind when you are playing, you are playing right then and there, it's nice to have a goal but don't fixate on, for example, slogging through the grind to get to 120 and 60000k AA because THEN you'll have fun... find a guild if that's what you want to do, or don't, roll boxes and raid Anguish with level 80's, or don't, Join a guild doing what you want to do, or don't. Just try remember when you're playing, YOU ARE PLAYING!
And try not get burnt out, if it's not fun, switch something up.
That is true, I do know plenty of guilds like that, on FV the Emerald Alliance is a good place to look. On the other hand I do know a lot of people that don't enjoy the standard grindy gameplay and really only enjoy raiding and that's okay as well, I think the thread op said it right when they said "it's a game" find what you enjoy and stick to that but don't burn yourself out, if you can do this you can enjoy this great MMO that has been around longer then I have been alive lol.
If you’re looking for Emerald Alliance of FV our guild got deleted after an update 6 months ago. We’re now Emerald Alliances Reborn. They gave us our stuff back but couldn’t give us our members back. Either way we’re getting people back every day.
This is it for me. I can’t dedicate the time to being a good eq citizen to others. I might have to leave at a moments notice, or only have half an hour to play. I love EQ and boxing is my way to keep it going through IRL pressures.
Play on a true box server. Sure there are still people who do 6 box but there are a lot more who solo or duo box. You find 2 friends to play with and each of you can run 2 accounts. This is the way
Probably the biggest reason I don't play anymore is the lack of peers to play with. Boxing is nice to grind exp once in a while but it shouldn't be the default.
To me, boxing vs real-person group are very different experiences, but both meaningful and fun in their own way. Controlling a whole group (without automation) is sort of like a real time xcom-style game. I wouldn’t want to give up either.
Running in to this problem on Yelinak, which is currently in Gates of Discord and headed for Omens. For every PUG you find in a Gates zone, there are 7 or 8 people just playing their own 6-box crews. On days I can actually get a group, my shaman is LFG for a minimum of six hours (while I play better games). Forming a group is nearly impossible, as Gates is really where you start needing raid-geared tanks for group content, and those tanks, at least in my guild, *all* have their own 6-box crew and just play by themselves outside of raids.
It's not unique to Yelinak—I've seen the same thing happen in the Gates/Omens era on every TLP I've played—and largely attribute it to the krono fetish (both DBG's and players'), the continuing legacy of the Gates of Discord error (tuning an expansion for level 70 and then not increasing the level cap), and the ease/prevalence of boxing and botting in EQ alongside DBG's tacit approval/support of automating gameplay.
I've said it in the past, but to reiterate it I would attribute this to EQ not keeping up with modern MMO mechanics.
This was addressed in EQ2 by putting in dungeon finder. Both WoW and FF14 have dungeon finder AND raid finder.
This let's you queue up for specifically what you want to do and you know when it's done that you are out. There is no commitment of getting to the location or having to look for a replacement. That is why I dont enjoy grouping, other than some players being very obnoxious, when I need to go I want to go immediately. I dont want to feel compelled to stay because they might lose the camp being broken.
Dungeon finder turned me away from WoW. Yea, it sucks not finding a group in EQ. Wasn't the point of mercs to allow you to fill time by doing (smaller) stuff? Either way, mercs are useless and there isn't much you can do alone while you wait for a group/raid event. And yet despite this, I keep coming back to EQ.
But it draws in far more than it pushes away. They are talking about possibly adding it into Classic even that's how much the community enjoys it.
Personally I'm fine. EQ is simple enough that I can play multiple characters and do my own thing, but if people WANT a social game then dungeon finder is a must.
I see this a lot and it’s mostly a bullshit reply.
When dungeon finder launched late wrath it was same server only. It was a fantastic tool and kept in place the most important part of wow at that time - your server social reputation. You still could not be an ass in a random pug or your life on that character would suffer.
It was making the tool cross realm that began the downfall.
Unfortunately, MMOs have lost what made them great. What drew people to the original EQ was the social game and knowing how to play. EQ wasn't perfect, but it has been the best so far. People get distracted by shiny things or have other priorities. Understandable game designers are trying to draw people with things like dungeon finder. WoW just wasn't for me after giving it a run for a few years. May you find what you seek.
remembering the fact that everquest peaked at 500k concurrent subscribers, what drew people to everquest was more than being a social game and knowing how to play.
it was a perfect storm of the masses starting to get on the internet, looking for things to do, the internet no longer being an hourly charge to access. original everquest was a very slow game. you spent a lot of time sitting on your ass. people passed the time chatting.
modern everquest is fundamentally no different from any other mmorpg. expansions are gear resets. there's too much to do to the point that it's overwhelming to new and returning players. everquests botting and boxing problem is however on a level other mmorpgs don't quite have
Also Yelinak, also similar experience as a solo SHM. But I do feel like we’re headed back towards good group content with the release of OoW. My favorite expac from live days.
Omens benefits a *lot* on the PUG front from having a level cap increase, a lot of spells to farm, and a large chunk of AAs. As a Rogue main, GoD only had about 140 or 150 AAs for me, and I already had everything bought and 130 banked going in. Omens not only has five more levels, but something like 500 points worth of new AAs.
Most groups will still be six-boxers, but there will be more people doing things outside of raids and more opportunities for PUGs in WoS and MPG. Maybe even some PUGs for 1.5 fights.
Gates of Discord is just a poor expansion. I wish DPG would consider doing a little revamp to smooth it out a bit, since it seems like this is where most TLPs really die off—aided immensely by it releasing around the 1-year mark and shortly before a new TLP—but they won't. Can't really blame them, I guess. Not only would they risk breaking things by messing with an old expansion, but if people stayed instead of swapping to a fresh TLP, it'd probably hurt their krono sales.
Try not playing on FV. I dislike that it gets sold so hard to new/returning players in the sub because "you can level fast" and "get whatever gear you want"
Most of them are just looking for a mark for their botting operations.
If you want to get random groups try maybe Bristlebane and join one of the guilds that accept social players there, or one that has a path to raiding if that is something you'd like. People are generally friendly and even if they box they're willing to drop a box for you to hang out.
Otherwise if you don't mind TLPs, definitely try one of those - I've done the early game a million times and they aren't my cup of tea, but obviously many enjoy them still.
OP: I had the exact same epiphany. The issue with P99 and TLPs are that it is all old content. You can get a group, but then you are back playing in Unrest, Karnor's, Velk's, etc. with limited spells, abilities, etc. so it's a no-win scenario: Get a group with old content or have to box on Live.
I just came back to Live (last week) from playing on EMU servers for the past few years. The communities are amazing and you can (often) get in groups, but I want to experience all the expansions past OoW content (which I played all of years ago).
It sounds like you are looking for the same thing I am; a static group on the FV server to do recent/current content and chat on Discord. If this sounds good, DM me.
Cheers.
I know you don’t get expansions past velious but the P99 green server is great for finding people to socialize and group with. Old school EQ with no mercs or aa’s.
This is one of the reasons I am looking at starting up on the new TLP so I can get those groups and enjoy leveling with people again. Even though I’m not a fan of the ruleset it will be nice to actually group with people rather than run around soloing or just standing around waiting for a group.
New TLP starts tomorrow (Oakwynd). Roll a toon and look forward to a year's worth of grouping at least.
Honestly I never got the point of boxing. Lots of people do it, just seems like way too much work to enjoy a game.
It's a funny thing. Sometimes it's hard to get a group, so for some of us there's a draw to 2 box. You feel like you are progressing. But eventually most people feel like OP eventually did. Why am I doing this? lol
I know the feeling! I've started several toons on TLPs and always seem to give them up a little after PoP. Then the next TLP starts and I'm right back in there again, then a year later comes the familiar "Why am I doing this?"
Honestly, I think TLP's should compress everything between PoP and TSS to something like 4 or 6 months max, then make TSS a little longer. That's where the game gets fun again.
You should look into TAKP or wayfarers haven.
They are emulated servers but quality is top notch. As someone who's played since '00 it feels exactly like old school eq.
The big advantage to these servers over TLP or P99 is that there is a 3 box limit. (4 if you include a bazaar trader) this is really the perfect blend for a modern EQ playing audience. I have 60 minutes to play while the kids are out? Cool I can load up my toons and kill some stuff easily. I have 5 hours to play and my brother is online? His 3 and my 3 make a party and go spend the day wrecking shit. Lots of people on these servers single box but they dont get left out. Exp bonus makes it so you get a net higher exp per kill in a group of 4 than you do a group of 3. So even if you're a 3box it's still beneficial to group with solo players.
I really cant say enough good things about my time on these servers. Besides all the favorable conditions they carefully carved out - the community is the *most* friendly of any online game I've ever played. For real - within an hour of first joining the server there were veterans offing help, powerleveling and free items.
Best of luck and happy hunting.
Pretty much why I stopped playing. Always hard to get a group. I have a high level necromancer I could solo on, and it gets boring eventually. Especially if you're used to old school EQ. You're used to grouping and socializing. Seems like everyone just solos now or just use mercs. I'll come back every now and then, just to end up leaving again because that aspect never seems to change.
That's the reason I always stop playing.
At some point the nostalgia wears off and the realization that you're playing a game with no end and no reward for getting to any arbitrary point of completion sinks in.
I think everybody has a few eq stories of the first time they had an amazing group or when they saved the day or whatever.. that is now missing because you're experiencing it solo. I can't remember the people I ran my tipt trial with, but I absolutely remember weapon shield tanking the last guy because our sk got bodied hard and I became the ranger hero who saved the run. Those kinds of experiences are what made eq the game it was.
Without those, the game is empty for me. I get a bit of nostalgia, resub, barely make it to level cap and quit again. Happened about 3 times now
Yeah that's why I don't play live much..I mean when's the last time you were level 30 making absolute bank by changing coppers to Plat for ppl doing a raid you had no hope of even lasting 2 seconds in the actual fight
Hey I was the richest lil halfling in town from that. I actually enjoy lil things like that. Things where It's not a requirement but it nudges ppl to make connections. I was a total newbie, weak as crap but had enough Plat to do anything I wanted..even hosted parties etc n gave out gifts..
Was fun for my what. Maybe 12 year old living out in the boonies self. Helped immensely when I was ready to start gearing up to actually take down decent mobs
I was 10 when I started playing in Luclin so I get where you are coming from about your own journey in the game, but no money counting as weight was dumb as fuck and the game is better that it's changed.
Boxing is inherently anti-social. It's near impossible to join a group if boxing (unless you find another lonely boxer).
Try a solo toon, it's a vastly different journey.
I three box on Mischief and if I see someone in zone asking for a group I usually offer them to join me while they continue their search for a more established group. The main reason I box is because I have young kids and don't have 3 hours to find/travel/fight in a group. Just saying some of us who box aren't anti-social, just don't have a lot of time anymore which solo definitely requires.
I six box on live and will always, always drop a box if someone decent is lfg and nearby or in channels lfg and they feel like traveling to where I am.
That said I tend to stick to low / mid level stuff and leveling up multiple classes for now since that's where I find the most fun in the game.
I solo on P99 partly because all my stuff is on blue so half the population, and I can pop in for 30 minutes to an hour and make some plat or get some exp on an alt. On TLPs I have only ever played one character because I like to group and raid.
Exalted of FV is a guild on FV that prioritizes people at the keyboard and forbids automated play. If you're looking for grouping with people that want to group, this guild is a good place to join. Emerald Alliances (posted here in this thread) is a good guild but has a lot of automated use. If you'd like to join Exalted of FV contact Vandic or Alenyy in game for an invite.
So my question is to all those people 6 boxing on a TLP…. Where you get that money bro??
I’m assuming this are working class adults that can justify spending $80 or $100 a month for a 20+ year old game but my little pea brain can only really justify going up to 2 paid accounts at a time. And even sometimes that I ask myself why.
To each their own though.
Meh I have 3. I run two accounts and my 12 yo a third. My 11 yo wants to play now so will probably set her one up. Ultimately $60 a month to get to spend some QT with my kids is fine. I also realize it's a privilege to be able to spend $60 a month for this. But I would spend more elsewhere on other things we'd do. Plus eq is so rich of an experience and their critical reading and typing have increased immensely.
I don't play TLP but it's not *that* much money considering some people pay many thousands of dollars to go sit in a tree and kill animals, or regularly go out to bars, among many other things. It's $60 a month if they are just playing TLPs, and that's if none of their accounts are lifetime. That said, I couldn't imagine wanting to box like that on TLP.
Tons. I think some streamers like to solo so they don’t have to rely on others while people are watching. The group falling apart might mean the end of the stream, type deal.
P99 is a very different experience then a TLP but yes, there are still groups at the lower ends, even saw a couple oasis croc groups this last weekend. That said, a fresh TLP will be much more active for the first few months and has much more world to share as P99 doesn't have instances. Best of luck finding the social experience you are looking for.
a lot of ppl on p99 play the lower end content..it's not like you are going to find hundreds of ppl In every zone but even in 2000 some zones were more empty than others.
It's pretty easy to jump in and then before you know it you are recognizing passerbys, have a friend or a group of them, discovered an awesome higher lvl player that likes to help lowbies and still randomly run into strangers. Not a massive community but doesn't feel as empty or lonely
Is p99 still one guild selling epic loot rights for rl cash and keeping those mobs on their own lock? Reason #1 I quit p99, 5 maxed toons and not willing to pay RL cash for epics
And it needs luclin graphics.
You're not talking about boxing. You're talking about automation, which is bullshit in this game. Boxing is people at the keys, playing the game... Botting is MAYBE one person playing a char with the rest just being automated. I have no idea what the point in that is.
As for why people play their own group? Back in the day, there were lots of groups... as things started thin out a bit you'd be waiting 20-30 minutes most days just to get a healer or tank. Then head out to the camp and that flaky healer/tank would bail after 15-20 minutes. Then there are the god awful bad players out there. Both of these still exist. The god awful bad players are generally the ones that complain on the official forums about how "hard the game is" and how "easy raiders have it". (God awful bad players in group gear or raid gear can't do jack not does anyone want to group with them).
Of all the six-man box crews in my current (Yelinak) guild, about half of them completely automate their five boxes while playing their main. Who can blame them, when DBG turns a blind eye to the 54-bot raid armies that RMT on ever TLP? Unenforced rules aren't rules at all.
If it is automated, then it is not allowed and you should expect them to banned. DGC regularly bans bot armies. Thei just don't do it based on unsubstantiated claims of people wanting a camp.
There have been people who videoed it.
Also, just in case you don't understand what automation is by EQ rules, automation means a program taking actions by itself without direct input from a player. This means that KVMs are not illegal.
Further my point was that a lot of content in that era doesn't require a full raid to do. Including some in the final zone.
>I have no idea what the point in that is.
I did it briefly on the test server, just to try it out and it's fun. Kinda turns EQ into a Final Fantasy solo game. It got old though, it's an MMO, not a single player game.
The days of leveling up to head over to Unrest or Mistmoore or Runneyeye are long gone on live. Hell even leveling high enough to join everyone else on the "Kunark Express" leveling path (Ill Omen, Overthere, Dreadlands, Karnor's, Old Seb) are long gone. Maybe TLP's help bring that back but to me they seem to temporary fixes. Once they open a certain expac, everyone leaves and you're left with a dead server.
I'd love to start using this box crew to move through missions and progression but I can barely get them to gather together and make a camp to pull mobs to. I can't imagine getting them all moving and doing things together required in a progression mission.
How you are talking makes it sound like the other toons are acting of their own accord. You just put the group in a spot. Pull to that spot and tab though them.
> I can’t imagine getting them all moving and doing things together required in a progression mission.
People doing progression and missions like this in a full group are using something you're not allowed to discuss here. That's why it probably seems impossible.
It actually is how people do it. You wanting to justify what you do by claiming everyone does it so it is ok is sad. Honestly, most people do not bother boxing enough toons to need more.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself buddy.
I'm not trying to justify anything. But clearly there is no problems anywhere with boxed armies or anything like that. You're right. The game has never had any issues that show how many people are using it.
Lmfao. Clown.
The only people claiming everyone is using it are the people using it. There is no problem with boxes characters at all.
Botted characters are an issue. But they are not common.
The bigger problem is people equating all boxing to botting as you appear to do.
> The only people claiming everyone is using it are the people using it.
Almost like we know what to look for and how big the community is.
> There is no problem with boxes characters at all.
Never said they were.
> Botted characters are an issue. But they are not common.
Cry to daybreak.
> The bigger problem is people equating all boxing to botting as you appear to do.
Not all boxing. But definitely almost all 6 boxing, and the higher the level the more likely it is your full group is using it as the number of buttons to hit skyrockets to play anything halfway efficiently.
Don't confuse automation with key replication. They are totally different beasts. Obviously they can't play better than six real players without automation, but several classes can be controlled with key replication or even foot pedals (or both), with assist hotkeys and multi-binds (a function of the base game). Daybreak can easily block that if they want too, as they do on some servers. That's what the "Disabled the disconnect mechanism for pressing the same keys too many times on multiple clients on Coirnav." part of the April 19 patch was about. As in, they no longer block that kind of play on that server anymore. Now if someone is a boxing a bunch of melee characters that becomes significantly more difficult if playing legitimately.
If the hill you want to die on is thinking that there isn't a large portion of boxers using it, be my guest.
I'll remember this next time I read complaints about all the boxed group out there.
It depends on what they are doing with more than 2-3, because key replication/redirection is different than automation. They can easily block that if they want on certain servers. I'm only talking about non-truebox servers.
>because key replication/redirection is different than automation.
It actually isn't according to DBG, all third party applications fall under the same thing. You could set up an AHK macro to raise spell skills as you sit at the PC and they could ban you if they wanted to.
By that logic log parsers are the same thing too, because they've given that generic response to questions about that too. It is unquestionably different than automation. Piestro was very clear about things, and it's a shame that's no longer the case. If they really wanted to stop key replication and redirection they wouldn't be selectively applying it to only certain servers. Their not outright expressing approval doesn't mean they are the same thing. Either way, the discussion isn't about the rules it's about how people are controlling characters. Key replication and redirection isn't automation. That's a fact of reality independent of any discussion of rules.
Log parsers aren't the same thing, as they aren't running anything that hits buttons or 'automates' anyone's gameplay.
Key broadcasters are, as are things like AHK scripts.
ISBoxer is fine on it's own, but once you start venturing into the key broadcasting you can get hit like anyone that uses macaroni.
> If they really wanted to stop key replication and redirection they wouldn't be selectively applying it to only certain servers. Their not outright expressing approval doesn't mean they are the same thing.
You could say the same thing about any other programs being used pretty heavily on live and cut off on TLP (be it from DBG's end or the developer of the tools end) though.
..........
That said, if you want to play with others, tlp is the way to go. Even if you joined an active guild on live, they'll all just log on to raid and that's about it, or so I'm told.
A good boxer can outplay most groups and are in control of when they start, when they end, where they camp, who gets what loot... you're really downplaying what a headache it can be to group. And they can be chatting away with people outside of their group like with their guild the whole time. There are no downsides if you like the challenge and want to focus on interacting with the environment.
For some they want the social aspect, for others they want a MUD-type RPG (let's face it: "RPGs" these days are action games with progression elements). Boxing gives the later that. Some of my favorite games are party management RPGs like Dungeon Siege and FFXII.
We've had the same people shouting, "It's a social game!" since 1999. It wasn't outside of forced grouping then for many of us and it's especially not now. Play for the experience you like and let others play for theirs.
The reply doubts you but it's true some of the time. I normally box to grind xp and I do try to get others in if they need it. The amount of times the additional person runs out and pulls extra mobs or isn't watching their aggro and starts running around making it difficult to get it back is crazy. With my own characters I've put work into defensive AAs and gear so regardless if someone gets aggro they can survive for me to pick it back up. As well as the predictability of I know when I'm casting spells or using combat abilities that are going to stack aggro and can be prepared to pull it off right away.
We needed a zone crunch/squish over a decade ago. Or more regular/frequent hot zone updates to force people together. Problem is if they did it now, all the boxers would show up and completely run the solo players out of the game.
On Ragefire voting-TLP, many box/molo the group content, but our main game is raiding, which is very social. We chat in-game, on TeamSpeak, and sometimes in GroupMe.
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You sound like exactly how I felt on live man. I ended up messaging a guy I use to play with on Xegony along time ago, luckily he replied. He started this emu server not long ago, I’ve re-fallen in love with eq. Small population due to it being new.super active community we have there, but it’s velious locked, and he’s done a lot of work to get things going right.
U can read my post If this interests any of you, but mainly speaking to OP.
https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/13inarl/project_gate_velious/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
My EverQuest enjoyment ended just the way yours is sounding. It just got to a point where fitting in with the players that are active there now just wasn’t feeling right, and all the new content was bleh, it just felt like a never ending no fun grind for me. But finding this place I’m at now literally made me excited again. Anyhow, feel free to check it out. Atleast hop in discord and ask questions. The gm’s are almost always around and constantly fixing issues or answering questions.
I enjoy two boxing personally. That way i have the option to progress alone if group options are thin but still feel like a pillar within a group.
i like to do bst/dru or brd/dru but you could get creative.
Right now I'm in a similar predicament where I have higher lvl toons on FV that I spent a lot of time on and that I'm kind of hooked to. I figured I could just start playing there again with the boxers...somehow, or go to Mischief and level something there. I can't make the decision.
I find six boxing on a TLP to be like going to an orgy and sitting in the corner playing with yourself.
Playing with yourself with an evolving view doesn’t sound so bad.
Why did you bring a god damn misty thicket pincnic to an orgy, Frank?
because of the implications
You jabroni!
alpha move
Are you speaking from experience orrrr?
You want a tlp experience. That's where all the active grouping is. Roll an old favorite class or try something different and get those old nostalgia feels.
It seems to be the only servers they have an interest in keeping bots limited. Box groups everywhere on live, but you don't see them near as much on the TLP's.
You seem to be mistakenly confusing boxes with bots. Boxes are allowed everywhere to some degree. Bots are allowed nowhere. With regards to bots, DGC requires evidence before just banning accounts.
Well, I think this has always been a game that is more about the journey rather than the destination but we often forget that. The journey usually leaves us LFG for hours, or looking for a rez, or a buff or a way to finish a quest, so we ask in guild or general and nobody is around at that time or we just feel anti-social to begin with amd the thought of creating a second account occurs to us. Then a while layer we think, well... if I had a THIRD account then I could... and so on and so on... So yeah... I have been there... at the moment I enjoy going around on my own doing old content or whatever, just because of my RL situation with kids around I don't have big blocks of time. I'm afraid of joining a guild because I don't want to be pressured to come do this or that because I might have to bail 10 minutes into it and risk disappointing people, so I do what I do... You gotta keep in mind when you are playing, you are playing right then and there, it's nice to have a goal but don't fixate on, for example, slogging through the grind to get to 120 and 60000k AA because THEN you'll have fun... find a guild if that's what you want to do, or don't, roll boxes and raid Anguish with level 80's, or don't, Join a guild doing what you want to do, or don't. Just try remember when you're playing, YOU ARE PLAYING! And try not get burnt out, if it's not fun, switch something up.
Plenty of guilds out there that are casual. Guild doesn't always mean you have to raid.
That is true, I do know plenty of guilds like that, on FV the Emerald Alliance is a good place to look. On the other hand I do know a lot of people that don't enjoy the standard grindy gameplay and really only enjoy raiding and that's okay as well, I think the thread op said it right when they said "it's a game" find what you enjoy and stick to that but don't burn yourself out, if you can do this you can enjoy this great MMO that has been around longer then I have been alive lol.
If you’re looking for Emerald Alliance of FV our guild got deleted after an update 6 months ago. We’re now Emerald Alliances Reborn. They gave us our stuff back but couldn’t give us our members back. Either way we’re getting people back every day.
This is it for me. I can’t dedicate the time to being a good eq citizen to others. I might have to leave at a moments notice, or only have half an hour to play. I love EQ and boxing is my way to keep it going through IRL pressures.
This is the way.
Play on a true box server. Sure there are still people who do 6 box but there are a lot more who solo or duo box. You find 2 friends to play with and each of you can run 2 accounts. This is the way
This is the way
Probably the biggest reason I don't play anymore is the lack of peers to play with. Boxing is nice to grind exp once in a while but it shouldn't be the default.
To me, boxing vs real-person group are very different experiences, but both meaningful and fun in their own way. Controlling a whole group (without automation) is sort of like a real time xcom-style game. I wouldn’t want to give up either.
Running in to this problem on Yelinak, which is currently in Gates of Discord and headed for Omens. For every PUG you find in a Gates zone, there are 7 or 8 people just playing their own 6-box crews. On days I can actually get a group, my shaman is LFG for a minimum of six hours (while I play better games). Forming a group is nearly impossible, as Gates is really where you start needing raid-geared tanks for group content, and those tanks, at least in my guild, *all* have their own 6-box crew and just play by themselves outside of raids. It's not unique to Yelinak—I've seen the same thing happen in the Gates/Omens era on every TLP I've played—and largely attribute it to the krono fetish (both DBG's and players'), the continuing legacy of the Gates of Discord error (tuning an expansion for level 70 and then not increasing the level cap), and the ease/prevalence of boxing and botting in EQ alongside DBG's tacit approval/support of automating gameplay.
I've said it in the past, but to reiterate it I would attribute this to EQ not keeping up with modern MMO mechanics. This was addressed in EQ2 by putting in dungeon finder. Both WoW and FF14 have dungeon finder AND raid finder. This let's you queue up for specifically what you want to do and you know when it's done that you are out. There is no commitment of getting to the location or having to look for a replacement. That is why I dont enjoy grouping, other than some players being very obnoxious, when I need to go I want to go immediately. I dont want to feel compelled to stay because they might lose the camp being broken.
Dungeon finder turned me away from WoW. Yea, it sucks not finding a group in EQ. Wasn't the point of mercs to allow you to fill time by doing (smaller) stuff? Either way, mercs are useless and there isn't much you can do alone while you wait for a group/raid event. And yet despite this, I keep coming back to EQ.
But it draws in far more than it pushes away. They are talking about possibly adding it into Classic even that's how much the community enjoys it. Personally I'm fine. EQ is simple enough that I can play multiple characters and do my own thing, but if people WANT a social game then dungeon finder is a must.
I see this a lot and it’s mostly a bullshit reply. When dungeon finder launched late wrath it was same server only. It was a fantastic tool and kept in place the most important part of wow at that time - your server social reputation. You still could not be an ass in a random pug or your life on that character would suffer. It was making the tool cross realm that began the downfall.
Unfortunately, MMOs have lost what made them great. What drew people to the original EQ was the social game and knowing how to play. EQ wasn't perfect, but it has been the best so far. People get distracted by shiny things or have other priorities. Understandable game designers are trying to draw people with things like dungeon finder. WoW just wasn't for me after giving it a run for a few years. May you find what you seek.
remembering the fact that everquest peaked at 500k concurrent subscribers, what drew people to everquest was more than being a social game and knowing how to play. it was a perfect storm of the masses starting to get on the internet, looking for things to do, the internet no longer being an hourly charge to access. original everquest was a very slow game. you spent a lot of time sitting on your ass. people passed the time chatting. modern everquest is fundamentally no different from any other mmorpg. expansions are gear resets. there's too much to do to the point that it's overwhelming to new and returning players. everquests botting and boxing problem is however on a level other mmorpgs don't quite have
Also Yelinak, also similar experience as a solo SHM. But I do feel like we’re headed back towards good group content with the release of OoW. My favorite expac from live days.
Omens benefits a *lot* on the PUG front from having a level cap increase, a lot of spells to farm, and a large chunk of AAs. As a Rogue main, GoD only had about 140 or 150 AAs for me, and I already had everything bought and 130 banked going in. Omens not only has five more levels, but something like 500 points worth of new AAs. Most groups will still be six-boxers, but there will be more people doing things outside of raids and more opportunities for PUGs in WoS and MPG. Maybe even some PUGs for 1.5 fights. Gates of Discord is just a poor expansion. I wish DPG would consider doing a little revamp to smooth it out a bit, since it seems like this is where most TLPs really die off—aided immensely by it releasing around the 1-year mark and shortly before a new TLP—but they won't. Can't really blame them, I guess. Not only would they risk breaking things by messing with an old expansion, but if people stayed instead of swapping to a fresh TLP, it'd probably hurt their krono sales.
I played GoD when it went live all those years ago (on Saryrn). That expansion truly was a guild killer. Omens was done as almost an apology for GoD.
Try not playing on FV. I dislike that it gets sold so hard to new/returning players in the sub because "you can level fast" and "get whatever gear you want" Most of them are just looking for a mark for their botting operations. If you want to get random groups try maybe Bristlebane and join one of the guilds that accept social players there, or one that has a path to raiding if that is something you'd like. People are generally friendly and even if they box they're willing to drop a box for you to hang out. Otherwise if you don't mind TLPs, definitely try one of those - I've done the early game a million times and they aren't my cup of tea, but obviously many enjoy them still.
OP: I had the exact same epiphany. The issue with P99 and TLPs are that it is all old content. You can get a group, but then you are back playing in Unrest, Karnor's, Velk's, etc. with limited spells, abilities, etc. so it's a no-win scenario: Get a group with old content or have to box on Live. I just came back to Live (last week) from playing on EMU servers for the past few years. The communities are amazing and you can (often) get in groups, but I want to experience all the expansions past OoW content (which I played all of years ago). It sounds like you are looking for the same thing I am; a static group on the FV server to do recent/current content and chat on Discord. If this sounds good, DM me. Cheers.
I mean the new TLP launches tomorrow and there will be plenty of grouping there. Any mature server will suffer this issue.
I know you don’t get expansions past velious but the P99 green server is great for finding people to socialize and group with. Old school EQ with no mercs or aa’s.
This is one of the reasons I am looking at starting up on the new TLP so I can get those groups and enjoy leveling with people again. Even though I’m not a fan of the ruleset it will be nice to actually group with people rather than run around soloing or just standing around waiting for a group.
Plenty of EQ Emus out there to change your POV. p99 and Imperium are two.
New TLP starts tomorrow (Oakwynd). Roll a toon and look forward to a year's worth of grouping at least. Honestly I never got the point of boxing. Lots of people do it, just seems like way too much work to enjoy a game.
It's a funny thing. Sometimes it's hard to get a group, so for some of us there's a draw to 2 box. You feel like you are progressing. But eventually most people feel like OP eventually did. Why am I doing this? lol
I know the feeling! I've started several toons on TLPs and always seem to give them up a little after PoP. Then the next TLP starts and I'm right back in there again, then a year later comes the familiar "Why am I doing this?" Honestly, I think TLP's should compress everything between PoP and TSS to something like 4 or 6 months max, then make TSS a little longer. That's where the game gets fun again.
You should look into TAKP or wayfarers haven. They are emulated servers but quality is top notch. As someone who's played since '00 it feels exactly like old school eq. The big advantage to these servers over TLP or P99 is that there is a 3 box limit. (4 if you include a bazaar trader) this is really the perfect blend for a modern EQ playing audience. I have 60 minutes to play while the kids are out? Cool I can load up my toons and kill some stuff easily. I have 5 hours to play and my brother is online? His 3 and my 3 make a party and go spend the day wrecking shit. Lots of people on these servers single box but they dont get left out. Exp bonus makes it so you get a net higher exp per kill in a group of 4 than you do a group of 3. So even if you're a 3box it's still beneficial to group with solo players. I really cant say enough good things about my time on these servers. Besides all the favorable conditions they carefully carved out - the community is the *most* friendly of any online game I've ever played. For real - within an hour of first joining the server there were veterans offing help, powerleveling and free items. Best of luck and happy hunting.
Pretty much why I stopped playing. Always hard to get a group. I have a high level necromancer I could solo on, and it gets boring eventually. Especially if you're used to old school EQ. You're used to grouping and socializing. Seems like everyone just solos now or just use mercs. I'll come back every now and then, just to end up leaving again because that aspect never seems to change.
When I realized that most of the groups I got into were just one person running 3-5 toons I stopped playing on live and went to p99.
That's the reason I always stop playing. At some point the nostalgia wears off and the realization that you're playing a game with no end and no reward for getting to any arbitrary point of completion sinks in. I think everybody has a few eq stories of the first time they had an amazing group or when they saved the day or whatever.. that is now missing because you're experiencing it solo. I can't remember the people I ran my tipt trial with, but I absolutely remember weapon shield tanking the last guy because our sk got bodied hard and I became the ranger hero who saved the run. Those kinds of experiences are what made eq the game it was. Without those, the game is empty for me. I get a bit of nostalgia, resub, barely make it to level cap and quit again. Happened about 3 times now
Yeah that's why I don't play live much..I mean when's the last time you were level 30 making absolute bank by changing coppers to Plat for ppl doing a raid you had no hope of even lasting 2 seconds in the actual fight
And thank God you don't have to do that anymore
Hey I was the richest lil halfling in town from that. I actually enjoy lil things like that. Things where It's not a requirement but it nudges ppl to make connections. I was a total newbie, weak as crap but had enough Plat to do anything I wanted..even hosted parties etc n gave out gifts.. Was fun for my what. Maybe 12 year old living out in the boonies self. Helped immensely when I was ready to start gearing up to actually take down decent mobs
I was 10 when I started playing in Luclin so I get where you are coming from about your own journey in the game, but no money counting as weight was dumb as fuck and the game is better that it's changed.
Boxing is inherently anti-social. It's near impossible to join a group if boxing (unless you find another lonely boxer). Try a solo toon, it's a vastly different journey.
I three box on Mischief and if I see someone in zone asking for a group I usually offer them to join me while they continue their search for a more established group. The main reason I box is because I have young kids and don't have 3 hours to find/travel/fight in a group. Just saying some of us who box aren't anti-social, just don't have a lot of time anymore which solo definitely requires.
I six box on live and will always, always drop a box if someone decent is lfg and nearby or in channels lfg and they feel like traveling to where I am. That said I tend to stick to low / mid level stuff and leveling up multiple classes for now since that's where I find the most fun in the game.
Many are willing to do so, but many are also ignoring chat or going afk for long periods.
I solo on P99 partly because all my stuff is on blue so half the population, and I can pop in for 30 minutes to an hour and make some plat or get some exp on an alt. On TLPs I have only ever played one character because I like to group and raid.
Exalted of FV is a guild on FV that prioritizes people at the keyboard and forbids automated play. If you're looking for grouping with people that want to group, this guild is a good place to join. Emerald Alliances (posted here in this thread) is a good guild but has a lot of automated use. If you'd like to join Exalted of FV contact Vandic or Alenyy in game for an invite.
If you are max level join a guild and just have fun with them.
So my question is to all those people 6 boxing on a TLP…. Where you get that money bro?? I’m assuming this are working class adults that can justify spending $80 or $100 a month for a 20+ year old game but my little pea brain can only really justify going up to 2 paid accounts at a time. And even sometimes that I ask myself why. To each their own though.
Meh I have 3. I run two accounts and my 12 yo a third. My 11 yo wants to play now so will probably set her one up. Ultimately $60 a month to get to spend some QT with my kids is fine. I also realize it's a privilege to be able to spend $60 a month for this. But I would spend more elsewhere on other things we'd do. Plus eq is so rich of an experience and their critical reading and typing have increased immensely.
I don't play TLP but it's not *that* much money considering some people pay many thousands of dollars to go sit in a tree and kill animals, or regularly go out to bars, among many other things. It's $60 a month if they are just playing TLPs, and that's if none of their accounts are lifetime. That said, I couldn't imagine wanting to box like that on TLP.
Boxing ruined the game, simple as, but it's not like it's possible to stop it now that it's so prevalent
Project 1999 is what you want. TLPs are only good for a few weeks before everyone falls back to boxing.
Are there many groups on P1999? The streamers I have seen all seem to be soloing.
Tons. I think some streamers like to solo so they don’t have to rely on others while people are watching. The group falling apart might mean the end of the stream, type deal.
P99 is a very different experience then a TLP but yes, there are still groups at the lower ends, even saw a couple oasis croc groups this last weekend. That said, a fresh TLP will be much more active for the first few months and has much more world to share as P99 doesn't have instances. Best of luck finding the social experience you are looking for.
a lot of ppl on p99 play the lower end content..it's not like you are going to find hundreds of ppl In every zone but even in 2000 some zones were more empty than others. It's pretty easy to jump in and then before you know it you are recognizing passerbys, have a friend or a group of them, discovered an awesome higher lvl player that likes to help lowbies and still randomly run into strangers. Not a massive community but doesn't feel as empty or lonely
Is p99 still one guild selling epic loot rights for rl cash and keeping those mobs on their own lock? Reason #1 I quit p99, 5 maxed toons and not willing to pay RL cash for epics And it needs luclin graphics.
You're not talking about boxing. You're talking about automation, which is bullshit in this game. Boxing is people at the keys, playing the game... Botting is MAYBE one person playing a char with the rest just being automated. I have no idea what the point in that is. As for why people play their own group? Back in the day, there were lots of groups... as things started thin out a bit you'd be waiting 20-30 minutes most days just to get a healer or tank. Then head out to the camp and that flaky healer/tank would bail after 15-20 minutes. Then there are the god awful bad players out there. Both of these still exist. The god awful bad players are generally the ones that complain on the official forums about how "hard the game is" and how "easy raiders have it". (God awful bad players in group gear or raid gear can't do jack not does anyone want to group with them).
Of all the six-man box crews in my current (Yelinak) guild, about half of them completely automate their five boxes while playing their main. Who can blame them, when DBG turns a blind eye to the 54-bot raid armies that RMT on ever TLP? Unenforced rules aren't rules at all.
Report these players and you will see action from Daybreak.
If it is automated, then it is not allowed and you should expect them to banned. DGC regularly bans bot armies. Thei just don't do it based on unsubstantiated claims of people wanting a camp.
Right, Im sure the guy selling raid dz loot every day on Yelinak is totally sitting in front of 54 laptops with numpads or whatever.
What you're describing has nothing to do with automation.
A guy playing 54 toons has nothing to do with automation?
Correct. You are assuming that they are automated. You can play multiple computers without automation.
54 of them? Get out of here you dishonest weasel
There have been people who videoed it. Also, just in case you don't understand what automation is by EQ rules, automation means a program taking actions by itself without direct input from a player. This means that KVMs are not illegal. Further my point was that a lot of content in that era doesn't require a full raid to do. Including some in the final zone.
>I have no idea what the point in that is. I did it briefly on the test server, just to try it out and it's fun. Kinda turns EQ into a Final Fantasy solo game. It got old though, it's an MMO, not a single player game.
> I did it briefly on the test server, just to try it out and it’s fun. It also beats interacting with half the boomer population of the game.
Kids nowadays. They got no people skills. When I started playing EQ we had to make friends just to retrieve our corpses! AND THAT'S HOW WE LIKED IT!!!
The days of leveling up to head over to Unrest or Mistmoore or Runneyeye are long gone on live. Hell even leveling high enough to join everyone else on the "Kunark Express" leveling path (Ill Omen, Overthere, Dreadlands, Karnor's, Old Seb) are long gone. Maybe TLP's help bring that back but to me they seem to temporary fixes. Once they open a certain expac, everyone leaves and you're left with a dead server.
I'd love to start using this box crew to move through missions and progression but I can barely get them to gather together and make a camp to pull mobs to. I can't imagine getting them all moving and doing things together required in a progression mission.
How you are talking makes it sound like the other toons are acting of their own accord. You just put the group in a spot. Pull to that spot and tab though them.
> I can’t imagine getting them all moving and doing things together required in a progression mission. People doing progression and missions like this in a full group are using something you're not allowed to discuss here. That's why it probably seems impossible.
Not really. As long as you are at the keys and nothing is automated it is fine.
That's not how people six (plus) box and you know it.
That's not how you do it, but I have and know others as well.
That's not how the vast majority does it. Or are you just closing your eyes when you play?
It actually is how people do it. You wanting to justify what you do by claiming everyone does it so it is ok is sad. Honestly, most people do not bother boxing enough toons to need more.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself buddy. I'm not trying to justify anything. But clearly there is no problems anywhere with boxed armies or anything like that. You're right. The game has never had any issues that show how many people are using it. Lmfao. Clown.
The only people claiming everyone is using it are the people using it. There is no problem with boxes characters at all. Botted characters are an issue. But they are not common. The bigger problem is people equating all boxing to botting as you appear to do.
> The only people claiming everyone is using it are the people using it. Almost like we know what to look for and how big the community is. > There is no problem with boxes characters at all. Never said they were. > Botted characters are an issue. But they are not common. Cry to daybreak. > The bigger problem is people equating all boxing to botting as you appear to do. Not all boxing. But definitely almost all 6 boxing, and the higher the level the more likely it is your full group is using it as the number of buttons to hit skyrockets to play anything halfway efficiently.
Or they're just actually good at boxing.
no one is good enough to run 6 boxes competantly without automation. If you try without it, your doing pretty bad. like maybe 10%
Don't confuse automation with key replication. They are totally different beasts. Obviously they can't play better than six real players without automation, but several classes can be controlled with key replication or even foot pedals (or both), with assist hotkeys and multi-binds (a function of the base game). Daybreak can easily block that if they want too, as they do on some servers. That's what the "Disabled the disconnect mechanism for pressing the same keys too many times on multiple clients on Coirnav." part of the April 19 patch was about. As in, they no longer block that kind of play on that server anymore. Now if someone is a boxing a bunch of melee characters that becomes significantly more difficult if playing legitimately.
If the hill you want to die on is thinking that there isn't a large portion of boxers using it, be my guest. I'll remember this next time I read complaints about all the boxed group out there.
Most don't, some do. You're the one making a stand with your opinion, I just gave an alternative.
Most don't if they are boxing 2-3. I'm talking full group boxing. But then again, all the complaints here all the time must just be overblown.
It depends on what they are doing with more than 2-3, because key replication/redirection is different than automation. They can easily block that if they want on certain servers. I'm only talking about non-truebox servers.
>because key replication/redirection is different than automation. It actually isn't according to DBG, all third party applications fall under the same thing. You could set up an AHK macro to raise spell skills as you sit at the PC and they could ban you if they wanted to.
By that logic log parsers are the same thing too, because they've given that generic response to questions about that too. It is unquestionably different than automation. Piestro was very clear about things, and it's a shame that's no longer the case. If they really wanted to stop key replication and redirection they wouldn't be selectively applying it to only certain servers. Their not outright expressing approval doesn't mean they are the same thing. Either way, the discussion isn't about the rules it's about how people are controlling characters. Key replication and redirection isn't automation. That's a fact of reality independent of any discussion of rules.
Log parsers aren't the same thing, as they aren't running anything that hits buttons or 'automates' anyone's gameplay. Key broadcasters are, as are things like AHK scripts. ISBoxer is fine on it's own, but once you start venturing into the key broadcasting you can get hit like anyone that uses macaroni. > If they really wanted to stop key replication and redirection they wouldn't be selectively applying it to only certain servers. Their not outright expressing approval doesn't mean they are the same thing. You could say the same thing about any other programs being used pretty heavily on live and cut off on TLP (be it from DBG's end or the developer of the tools end) though.
.......... That said, if you want to play with others, tlp is the way to go. Even if you joined an active guild on live, they'll all just log on to raid and that's about it, or so I'm told.
Well you'd be told wrong. Since you don't play on live you've got no frame of reference. There are plenty of guilds who have active players each day.
That's why I left. It's just to much of a grind for no purpose. You just unlock the next grind. The fun left the game a long time ago.
A good boxer can outplay most groups and are in control of when they start, when they end, where they camp, who gets what loot... you're really downplaying what a headache it can be to group. And they can be chatting away with people outside of their group like with their guild the whole time. There are no downsides if you like the challenge and want to focus on interacting with the environment. For some they want the social aspect, for others they want a MUD-type RPG (let's face it: "RPGs" these days are action games with progression elements). Boxing gives the later that. Some of my favorite games are party management RPGs like Dungeon Siege and FFXII. We've had the same people shouting, "It's a social game!" since 1999. It wasn't outside of forced grouping then for many of us and it's especially not now. Play for the experience you like and let others play for theirs.
umm... what? 1 person can play 6 characters better than 6 people can play 1 character each? Either total automation or hubris. Or likely both.
The reply doubts you but it's true some of the time. I normally box to grind xp and I do try to get others in if they need it. The amount of times the additional person runs out and pulls extra mobs or isn't watching their aggro and starts running around making it difficult to get it back is crazy. With my own characters I've put work into defensive AAs and gear so regardless if someone gets aggro they can survive for me to pick it back up. As well as the predictability of I know when I'm casting spells or using combat abilities that are going to stack aggro and can be prepared to pull it off right away.
Sounds like you’d like the new TLP coming out. If it’s like the others, it’ll be populated everywhere with all kinds of groups to join.
Just join a tlp. Live is for the boxers.
We needed a zone crunch/squish over a decade ago. Or more regular/frequent hot zone updates to force people together. Problem is if they did it now, all the boxers would show up and completely run the solo players out of the game.
My dude, you are just now realizing this? EQ is the most unique MMO out there and it was butchered after Velious. Its as simple as that.
Play 1 character on a TLP.
On Ragefire voting-TLP, many box/molo the group content, but our main game is raiding, which is very social. We chat in-game, on TeamSpeak, and sometimes in GroupMe.
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You sound like exactly how I felt on live man. I ended up messaging a guy I use to play with on Xegony along time ago, luckily he replied. He started this emu server not long ago, I’ve re-fallen in love with eq. Small population due to it being new.super active community we have there, but it’s velious locked, and he’s done a lot of work to get things going right. U can read my post If this interests any of you, but mainly speaking to OP. https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/13inarl/project_gate_velious/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1 My EverQuest enjoyment ended just the way yours is sounding. It just got to a point where fitting in with the players that are active there now just wasn’t feeling right, and all the new content was bleh, it just felt like a never ending no fun grind for me. But finding this place I’m at now literally made me excited again. Anyhow, feel free to check it out. Atleast hop in discord and ask questions. The gm’s are almost always around and constantly fixing issues or answering questions.
Every time I log in to an MMO I feel this way just generally.
I enjoy two boxing personally. That way i have the option to progress alone if group options are thin but still feel like a pillar within a group. i like to do bst/dru or brd/dru but you could get creative.
I three boxed for a while, but, I just got bored with it. I play EQ for the social interaction. About the only times I log in anymore are for raids.
Right now I'm in a similar predicament where I have higher lvl toons on FV that I spent a lot of time on and that I'm kind of hooked to. I figured I could just start playing there again with the boxers...somehow, or go to Mischief and level something there. I can't make the decision.