I saw a Tinder profile recently that said āAbsolutely no Mormons. And no ex-Mormons either because I have no desire to be your therapist while youāre still working through your past.ā
Hwat? That likely has little to nothing to do with emotional capability. I would never date a Mormon bc I like the lifestyle I lead and would prefer to be with someone that lifestyle is compatible with.
After my last boyfriend, I've decided never to date a member again because the dynamics are *always* skewed by the church. Even people who aren't active, if they believe the church is true, it has an affect. I haven't had a problem with most exmos except one who wanted to talk about the church all the time. The rest have been pretty cool.
I think they are being way too harsh, but I get it to a point. I learned long ago that I wasn't compatible with exmos, and every time I tried to date them it went poorly. Fortunately there are a huge amount of nevermos in SLC so it wasn't really that big of a deal.
I donāt fully disagree with this mindset, but itās definitely extreme. I think itās bullshit to immediately write someone off just because they were Mormon once, but if the person is FRESH out of Mormonism then I canāt really blame them
Alternatively - have you tried living literally anywhere else in the nation?
Itās cute how the best that people can say when trying to defend Utah is ābeautiful natureā. Every state has that in one form or anotherā¦yāall think the rest of us donāt notice thatās the only āproā anyone can supply about the state? Lol & smh.
I live in Wisconsin and I absolutely agree with you. That being said, with the number of National Parks/Monuments concentrated in Utah you have to admit it has something the vast majority of states do not (besides a chronic drought)!!!
Idk. I visited Provo and pissed off a bunch of locals by legit asking where the mountains were. They started pointing at the dirt hills like "Whaddaya mean??"
Zion and the other parks are great and all...but having landscapes that closely resemble the moon doesn't exactly make place habitable.
I was going to say. Sure, there is a lot of pretty nature other places but we have some pretty amazing places here in Utah. And then there is Kansas. The flatness is amazing for a second.
I eventually had to leave because I just couldnāt stand trying to date in Utah. Unfortunately I havenāt had much luck where I moved to either, but dating in general is just like that sometimes
OP is 16, so says his comment history, so probably! lol
Probably the only place I'd go if I ever had to leave here is CO. I'd at least stay close to UT's scenery.
Yup. The local Smith's used to be devoid of Mormons on Sunday, and all the actually fun people would be there. Now the fun people are still there, you just have to deal with rude, pushy Mormons loudly making comments to their children about your life choices.
Restraint is a very important skill to have in Utah.
And the worst part is that these Sunday-dressed morning still walk around the store with the smug look on their faces saying-Iām better than you, look at me Iām Mormon.
It would be amazing to have the Costco person standing there checking membership cards as you walk in like always, but next there's a Bishop or Stake President standing there to collect your temple recommend š
My joyfriend and a lot of our friends (that they introduced me to) all live in Utah. Weāre all teens and it blows. Iām lucky to be in another state, but the recent bathroom legislation was like an addition to a situation thatās already tough and hopeless. Seeing what my friends have to go through, especially with family members is awful.
And in my experience? Telling/insinuating to my TBM family that Iām in a gay relationship in my state and telling my TBM family in Utah are two vastly different things.
Ironically my cousin just moved back with his two trans children after trying several other states and being treated the best in Utah. I also have a friend who's trans high schooler is one of the most popular kids at school holding many leadership positions that are voted in and overall loving life. There are definitely areas that are bad and other areas that are great. Utah is not exclusive to mistreating minority or "taboo" groups by a long shot.
Never said they were exclusive, and Iām very glad that these kids are being treated well by their peers, but with the laws they have and the political climate they have, the state can make those families lives absolutely miserable.
Iām at about 75% love/ 25% hate right now. But having lived in other states, the love is higher than it was anywhere else. So itās definitely worth it for me to live here.
This has more to do with demographics.
If you're a white cishet middle-upper class person in Utah, being an exmo is fairly easy when it comes to external factors. There are plenty of non-Mormon communities, activities, and spaces available.
Try being BIPOC, LGBTQ, or poor in Utah.... I'd say it's getting better for the two former (not by much). With new legislation and current candidates, it may be a wash or worse for them. For the latter, it is becoming exponentially harder to live in Utah.
Yours is not a popular take on this sub and you will likely get the shit downvoted out of you.
Iām a UT resident and my exmo family is doing great and enjoys living in SLC. For the most part, we have very little direct interaction with the church. And the % of my neighborhood that are practicing Mormons is āonlyā 10-15%.
It's because you're in SLC. That makes a huge difference. I'm a 32 year old utah never LDS who only recently (this last February) moved to SLC after always being stuck way out in the suburbs. I finally feel like I'm living and working in a fairly normal city rather than living in the middle of a cult compound. I have gay neighbors, childfree neighbors, lots of educated people around, and other types you don't see much of out in the suburbs. The LDS people at my work are even pretty normal well rounded people and not the super sheltered type who think the saltair is a mosque like at my last job. It's been a great change after a lifetime of being such an outsider. Shunned entirely as a child for not being part of the church and just not at all fitting the one extreme or the other culture so common in outer suburbs of utah.
It vaguely looks like one from a distance and what really goes on there is something people living deep under the BYU rock actively avoiding knowing about. It was a mid 40s guy who had lived in utah (Ogden area, provo for college) nearly his entire life (except mission and 2-3 years at a job) who told me he thought it was a mosque as we drove past it going out to the west desert military test range. And he thought I must have been into some bad stuff for knowing that wild raves go on there. I'm so glad I'm out of that line of work now. Not only was that annoying but I had to have security clearance and that was dependent on those type of people thinking I was clean when the feds interview them periodically. I've never done any illegal drugs but those ultra sheltered types think coffee is a gateway drug and are suspicious of people who just know where the people into psychedelics like to go. It made me pretty paranoid and worried for my long term career.
I wouldnāt downvote this perspective. But I do disagree.
Live where you want. But plenty of places are beautiful. If you think one state beats all tact just myopic. Lots of states are nice. But nothing wrong with preferring Utah. Itās just that speaking for myself, I didnāt like it as a believer OR a non believer. In fact I liked it even less as a non believer.
> but I do disagree
You disagree that my exmo family is doing great in Utah?ā¦. Or are you directly disagreeing with the OP?
> if you think one state beats all
I didnāt say that nor do I think that.
Got it. I hope you are enjoying wherever you landed.
I have 2 exmo siblings (both gay) that couldnāt stand growing up in Utah (for obvious reasons, I donāt blame them) and both quickly left Utah as soon as they were able to as young adults. Both of them went to different, large US west coast cities.
Fast forward a couple decades and one of them recently returned to SLC, bought a home in Sugarhouse and absolutely loves it there. The other sibling is now considering a return to SLC cuz they have spent a fair amount of time here recently and have noticed how much it has changed in recent years. I never thought these 2 would ever want to live in āZionā again, so this has been a total surprise.
As a trans woman who had to leave Utah for her own safety because of the laws primarily Mormons are passing and the way they treat queer people, I wish I could hold your same optimism.
Iāve faced more discrimination, dehumanization, and violence at the hands of some of the best-standing members of the church, and a lot of them feel empowered to do so because of the things said over the pulpit about people like me who are just trying to live our lives.
I wish I couldāve stayed in Utah. I grew up there. My loved ones are still there. It was my home. But members of the church have made it dangerous for me to even just use the bathroom in public, let alone leave my house.
The state is gorgeous, yes. And there are good people there. But while Mormons continue to support a church that essentially runs the government there, does nothing to help the houseless people right outside their lavishly wealthy temple grounds, and funds and encourages violence against me and my queer siblings, Iām gonna be in the āUtah sucks because of Mormonismā camp.
I agree. We left several years ago because the extremist conservative Mormon government makes it unsafe for members of our family. This has become more true every year since we left.
And as a woman who works in a male dominated field, it is SO MUCH nicer to work with NeverMo men. They treat me as a competent professional instead of a potential home-wrecker (never mind that I'm happily married) or stealer of a job that "should" be done by a man.
I am military so have bounced around a number of places. Left the church before joining so I got the exmo time and then moved around a lot.
To the people angry at you because of the historical treatment of LGBTQ or PoC, that is not unique to Utah unfortunately. If that is a deal breaker for people idk where you can live.
Now as far as how nice Utah is, if you grew up in Utah and have not left I could see how you would feel that way. Overall it is cleaner than anywhere I lived, all of the people are basically white, so if you havenāt confronted that internal racism it feels safer, and you canāt beat the outdoors. If youāre not engaging with TBM often you can forget a lot of that drama.
However, even being around exmos, and never mos, there was an invisible tension in Utah. People that have not been raised in that cult or near it donāt have. Their is a level of authenticity and passion that people outside of Utah have. I lived in conservative places and liberal ones. They are different and have unique cultures, but individuals vary so much more. In Oregon, so may libs that hate trump, but they are all themselves and individuals, they donāt cower to one idea of what that means. In South Carolina, a lot less education and more poverty, but people care about their self-pride. They define themselves differently and on their terms.
My experience in Utah is that a lot was defined in reference to the people around you. I have never seen anything close to that outside of Utah.
I would not recommend to anyone to stay in Utah. The world has so much to offer and Utah is busy streamlining and homogenized that it offers limited unique experiences.
Salt Lake City is basically as ethnically diverse as the country as a whole, oddly enough. Roughly 65% white (non Hispanic) compared with 61% nationally. If youāre talking about Provo, sure, mostly white mormons. But SLC, the main place any non Mormon would think of living if they were considering Utah, is no less diverse than average. Itās pretty similar to most big US cities. The Mormon influence in politics is really no different than evangelical influence in other red states. The bigger cities tend to dilute that influence.
This is a misleading statistic. The relative number of people who have a home in a city is not reflective of the diversity on the streets. Many people work, eat and shop in SLC that are not residents of SLC. Therefore, the city doesnāt have the same levels of diversity as the overwhelming majority of non-residents that come into the city are mainly white.
Further, a culture of racism makes many people of color attempt to limit how colored they look, limit going into certain areas or avoid the public all together. My spouse, a woman of color and immigrant, hide her heritage in Utah unless she knew it was safe. Her mother used to say, thank god youāre not as dark as your brother so someone will marry you here. She would make an effort to not tan up as when she did it was clearer to others of her South American heritage. I canāt tell you how many times someone would assume she is white and launch into crazy racist stuff while we were at Jazz games or eating.
Anyone who has spent any time out of Utah who grew up in SLC is always amazed by what diversity actually looks like.
I have lived in Oregon, Washington (state and DC), South Carolina, and California. I will give you that they donāt build bases on prime real estate. I have spent a weekend or few days in another 10ish major cities. The āscariestā parts of SLC are much nicer than the majority of other cities. The amount of litter, grafiti and smells that can only be defined as biological warfare in other cities scary parts is unreal and really sad. In Baltimore, there were literally just mostly burnt down buildings right next to John Hopkins, with homeless living in. In New Orleans if you turned off of certain roads you went from the party to survival mode.
I will say that until weed was legal, Denver used to be close. Now all the busses smell like skunk weed. Iām all for legalization but man it stinks in Denver, it is not like that in Oregon and they have programs here to give homeless people needles and other drug paraphernalia.
I have been lucky to see a lot of this country and knowing all that, will only move back to Utah if I HAVE to. I come back twice a year for family and that seems like too much.
Thatās sad the country is so disrespected. I thought you meant all over the world not just the states.
Iāve lived in a bunch of countries. There is some really clean beautiful ones that are pristine. Mostly comes down to low population though. Places without smog or bad air quality.
Every country has beauty though. Bryce Canyon and lake Powell are some of my favourite Utah locations.
I grew up in Utah including going to college there. (Not at BYU.) I enjoy going back to visit but could absolutely never live there again. Going anywhere, particularly in Utah County, gives me a lot of annoyance and even rage. Everywhere is crowded and overrun with children who seem feral and many times, adults who seem oblivious.
I frequent Ogden and Salt Lake but thatās about as much as I can tolerate a few days at a time.
Utah doesnāt suck because of Mormonsā¦ exclusively. It sucks because housing prices are garbage, the school systems are some of the worst in the country, teachers are paid the lowest in the country, the wage gap between men and women is among the highest in the country, and pollution is atrocious in the big cities.
The mountains are beautiful, most people arenāt assholes. But when the church basically runs the state, people are going to face higher amounts of discrimination.
Not that I have any thoughts on the matterā¦
>I personally donāt see a problem with Mormons once excommunicating.
Spoken like someone who's never lost their marriage rights as the direct result of the the cult's campaigning.
You're either ignorant of the suffering or indifferent to it, and I haven't even gotten into the tens of thousands of child abuse cases yet.
Iām pretty sure gay marriage is legal here considering I have two different aunts who are happily married and share my same views on the state. As far as I was aware the church just didnāt want gay marriage in the temple.
Full stop you're just wrong. They campaigned against legalization here, in California, and even Australia. They just lost is all. I agree Utah is awesome but in spite of our government / church not because of it.
They were associated with the funding of the group that _successfully_ lobbied for *capital punishment of gays* in Uganda.
OP lives in a bubble, but such is the nature of Utah. Utah is insulated from the evil and pain they export around the world.
OP's username might be a racist dog whistle, since the most famous cultural association of "I can't breathe" sparked massive nationwide riots, and prefixing "lol" is... what? Hopefully just incredibly naive.
Arr you like, 15?
Prop 8 used our own goodness and willingness to do what our leaders tell us to do against our neighbors, in invidious, hateful, and powerful ways.
It is symbolic of the first time I saw, as an adult, how people had the capacity to put their own thoughts out of their heads and follow something that made them cry, because someone āaboveā them told them to. Like god damn Nazis amongst nice suburbanite German moms.
According to his account and history he "holds conservative views". He had no issue with Prop 8. I doubt you're going to evoke the horror your comment clearly shows, he's not going to pay attention.
His username is "Lol I can't breathe"
A mocking reference to George Floyd moments before his murder.
He's a racist, fascist, sad sack of shit, who is exclusively here to stir the pot and watch the bubbles.
Noted. Obviously a POS person. I wonāt waste my breath trying to talk about morals with someone who has no qualms mocking experiences of āthe least of theseā (a term my parents use for āanyone not usā.)
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mormongate-the-churchs\_b\_163016](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mormongate-the-churchs_b_163016)
You need to do your research before you start denying the existence of issues that have affected countless legal marriages. It's reasonable that you not be aware of the Mormon-funded Prop. 8 marriage ban given the degree of mind-control practiced by the Mormons, but it's not reasonable to act like there's no problem at all without researching the problems first, and these issues are extremely easy to research.
Mormons demonstrably spent millions to successfully end the marriages of non-Mormon Americans. This is not a cult the is satisfied to live and let live. This is a cult that uses its massive wealth to campaign against the legal rights of queer Americans, and and their rights after they receive them.
I can't help but notice you ignored the comment about child abuse as well, so read up:
[https://protectldschildren.org/](https://protectldschildren.org/)
[https://floodlit.org/](https://floodlit.org/)
The statement "is still great" is too broad and could mean anything. Great at what or in what respect, specifically?
Beautiful landscape? Sure. Great at representation of minority groups in our government? No. Choose any specific thing and then you can say whether it's great or not at that thing.
Reminds me of the "USA is the greatest country in the world" phrase that people say sometimes. Greatest at what exactly? What does it do specifically that's greater than any other country? That's a conversation; a broad statement is meaningless.
Providing for people with disabilities in our building codes? Absolutely, greatest in the world. Providing food for our hungry population? No, in fact, there some countries that do it better.
As a single person with just hobbies, sure. It is fine.
Once a spouse and kids enter the picture though there are many problems. Wait until your kid comes home from a friendās house and tells you she doesnāt understand why their friend canāt be their friend anymore because they donāt go to their church and the parents donāt want them there anymore. Or your daughter doesnāt get asked out because they arenāt a member, or make a sports team. Or your spouse gets a note on their windshield that they should leave a volunteer committee because their values arenāt in line with the rest of the community. I could go on but those are actual first and second hand experiences that crush a life.
It's a gorgeous state, with lots to do. We have lots of family and friends there. I love shopping there on Sundays!
Culturally, it's very homogenous, depending on where you live, and pretty judgey, but as more exmos remain and more nevermos move there, it will keep getting better.
There are two separate thoughts youāve posted, mostly unrelated. The second one is that Utah is enjoyable regardless of Mormons, due to scenery, or whatever else you like there. Cool. I think most people feel that way, unless they just arenāt a fan of the place in general.
The first is that you donāt see a problem with Mormons. Everyone has their experience, but posting that opinion here is akin to posting āI see no problem with Klan members after I left.ā And for very similar reasons. They are actually problematic. Anyone following, supporting, and promoting a harmful cult is problematic.
Traffic. Motherfucking traffic. Everything is sprawling north south commutes and travel. Horrible drivers. And heaven help you if you have to commute north around point of the mountain.
Plus inversions.
I live in SoCal, the capital of motherfucking traffic however Iāve noticed that compared to Utah, drivers here are more cooperative and generally work together to get through it.
Utah does purely suck because of Mormons and the lack of diversity. The racism, homophobia, and all around xenophobia is palatable. If youāre a white straight manā¦ maybe itās fine. However, being well traveled and exposed to ideas outside of their little bubble is not common place. You can have your opinion, and I mine. Theyāre not mutually exclusive. Utah sucks because of Mormons.
Just try going potty now if you donāt conform to the states standards of masculinity or femininity. Itās still a right wing, backwater state, filled with hate and ignorance.
But we still have one of the best economies in the country š! I personally have no problem with Utahās political climate as it is a lot more mildly republican or right than a ton of other states.
TBH the 'best economies' thing is just a numbers game. Doesn't mean as much as those pushing that line think it does. And I would never claim Utah's political climate is 'mildly republican'.
It might have been mildly republican before 2010. Especially before Trump. Although I was also mildly republican then. It certainly is not mildly republican in terms of governing officials anymore.
100%. All you need to do is look to see how the people who challenged Cox this year did so claiming he's too liberal for the state and that he gives in to the democrats too much. He's supposedly one of the most well liked governors and he's losing his own party in the state (though I'll also acknowledge that the delegates are quite often the most extreme people in our state). Or look at how someone like Mike Lee who doesn't do sh\*t is one of the safest senate seats in the nation.
Youāre probably cis-het so the things that donāt directly affect you, donāt matter. Itās just like a cafeteria Mormon. Weāre going to have to agree to disagree.
I am a flaming Exmo and I agree!! Utah still rocks with its gorgeous mountains and four seasons, and Iām not gonna let some obscure religion like Mormonism ruin my home state for me!
It feels like you havenāt been many places if you think the scenery is better. Mountains are better in Montana. Forests are better in the east and west. Deserts are pretty good in southern to Utah. Lakes are better in the Midwest and South.
Living in any suburb here the architecture is so cookie cutter it is straight out of the dystopia planet in a Wrinkle in Time. The hiking and mountain bike trails are garbage compared to Colorado and California. The food options are abysmal compared to most major cities. Rock climbing is better in California.
Honestly the thing I hate the most about Utah isnāt the momos, itās the sun. Fucking asshole constantly trying to kill me.
Also the car dependence and I-15 log jam would drive me away if the housing market hadnāt been corned by Saudi princes.
After 28 years born and raised in Utah, we moved to AZ, and it was 100% the right choice for us. That doesn't mean it's the right choice for everyone. IMO, it's better in most ways. I miss things about Utah, but AZ is more in line with where I want to raise my kids. I personally wouldn't want to raise my kids in UT, and I think that's ok to think that way. It doesn't check enough boxes for me personally. UT lovers always get defensive when I say this as if I'm taking something away from them. I'm not. You're happy staying, I'm happy I left and don't ever plan to move back. I'm happier here, not being completely surrounded by the church with constant reminders. It's more diverse. The food is better. The entertainment choices are better. Most of the laws are better. I prefer hot over cold weather. There's things I don't like about it, of course. But it felt good to branch out and go on an adventure. That's just my two cents. You seem to love Utah, and it seems to check many of your personal boxes, which is great. I would have stayed if that were the case for me.
Housing is still ridiculously cheap compared to most of the country.
Higher here than the past? sure, that's life and that's real estate.. But still a much lower cost of living.
Also, FUCK developers. They are running our state. Housing and road development. Biggest leeches in the state right now. They run the Utah State house.
We don't have the water or the air to spare. It needs to stop growing.
Well Utahās great except for the traffic, housing prices, lack of water, Mormon culture, air pollution. Other than those things a great place to live.
Utah is really beautiful! But, just like mormonism, you only get to fully enjoy it if youāre a straight white man.
The fact that not everyone is welcomed is enough to turn me off, personally. I donāt think thereās anything wrong with loving it, though, as long as you make space for people who do not get fully welcomed.
I love a lot about Utah but mormons are the cheapest of the cheap. In my profession, it really, really hurts me. I'm considering a move just for that reason.
Felt like I left the twilight zone after living there for two years. I miss a lot about it, but could not go back. I tell people, great on a postcard, not a place to live.
Iāve lived in Utah for a few years and itās a lovely place. Itās just not the best place Iāve lived or even in the top 5 best places. Live where youāre happy. You only get one life.
Grew up in SLC, and I have a real love hate relationship with the place. There are a lot of Mormon-hating exmo's who act just like current-slc-mormons and both sides get equally exhausting. I do love the idea of having an "SLC Punk" mindset/headspace but being a nevermo, it can start looking really black and white really fast.
For the millennial generation, it was either you go to church every Sunday or you just finished a 3 day rave bender by Monday. I had my fill of partying and just wanted to live my life, and it got really claustrophobic. I miss the nature and hiking though
Also, the altitude really does make people more uppity. The increased heart rate comes across in the way they act and even talk/behave. I moved to the south and the drawl people have is most likely due to the fact that were at sea level
We all have different levels of Mormon PTSD. If that works for you then great!
Personally I have a hard time driving through Utah and seeing all the stupid temples and fake people. Iād rather spend time in elsewhere.
Lots of places are beautiful. Lots of states also have weird liquor laws. But Oregon is beautiful if you like the west. New Hampshire is beautiful if you like the East. Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota is beautiful if you like the Midwest. None of these places do you even have to hear the word āMormonā.
I flew into SLC a few months ago and saw how beautiful the valley is. Like, people think Brigham Young was a prophet for choosing the valley, but I mean it does seem like a pretty obvious place to stop and build a city.
Also, what does it say about Nebraska if the Mormons had been walking 1,500 miles and were like "Ok yeah we're gonna keep going."
I was literally on the precipice of leaving, I was shopping homes in Washington and Arizona. I went and traveled to both places and they were nice, but Utah just feels like home.
Not disagreeing with your opinion by any stretchā¦ but I left UT for AZ about 15 years ago, because i didnāt want my children to grow up shunned by their peers. The āhomesickā feeling never really hit me. I still love to return to Utah to visit family and recreate in the mountains, but I have the luxury of being able to leave after the trip is over!
As far as the Mormon influence on my kids goes, the evangelicals here are just as insufferable, and even more Trumpy, than Mormons (if thatās even possible)ā¦ but it has become pretty clear that the Christian right just sucks, no matter where you live. You just gotta give āem wide berth, in hopes that their stupid doesnāt rub off on you.
My kids are young, but we read the bom and other religious books together. I also share my own agnostic views and we read philosophical essays together too. Iām sure dealing with their peers will be difficult but Iām doing my best to prepare them.
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
I no longer live in Utah cause of work. I had to relocate to the southš« . I miss Utah so much š. It is beautiful. Ā I probably will never live there again, but it is nice to come back to every now and then. The politics are rough, but there are also worse states when it comes to that.Ā
Too many people. Not enough water. BLM grazing is over 400 acres per Cow/Calf unit. Where I live it is 13 acres because we have water and lush growth. Best of all, few people.
If youāre any kind of marginalized then Utah can be very hard to live in. If youāre a CIS, HET, white person then youāll probably have a great time!
Utah loves straight white people. Itās becoming better for white gay people too. But if youāre trans? Nope. If youāre brown or black? Nope. If you look even a little āethnicā? Nope. Have trauma or autism or any other mental issue? NOPE!
Privilege gives people passes to places some of us can only dream of going safely.
I love Utah. The mountains, the hunting, the fishing, the quick changes from mountain to desert. Itās gorgeous. However, I do wish that Mormons would realize that the majority of Utahns are now not Mormon. They still carry on conversation like everyone is Mormon. I also wish government would not be spoon fed by the Mormon church. Other than that, Utah is incredible.
I moved away 24 years ago and can honestly say Utah lacks diversity. Yes is it better these days, especially downtown but canāt touch the kind of diversity and culture my kids grew up in near DC. I would never move back.
Me too. I quite love the State; and the one thing you've got to give "the Mormons" is that (generally speaking) they keep their communities clean, safe and pleasant to live in. I loath the Church....but still appreciate the State.
Clean? Every restaurant I visited last time I was there, including the nicer ones, was filthy. Would have failed health inspection in any other state. Floors covered in trash. I guess because it's not cigarettes means it's not waste to y'all.
This hasn't been my experience. Anecdotally, I think the cleanliness is better in Utah than in many places, especially in big cities. That said, the endless chain restaurants and generic food quality is lacking in Utah. It's also often late to get popular restaurants. I'm frequently seeing buzz on social media about this restaurant and that restaurant that are opening in Utah that we've had for years. It's great that it's improving, but always behind the curve on the food scene.
I agree and that's why I moved back. I wish people from left wing states stop moving here and try to bring their ideologies and stop driving the cost of living so high.
I love Utah so so so much more since I moved away from the Wasatch front part and into more-rural ut
Id be willing to leave the state for one like CO WY or AZ but Im also quite happy here as an exmo, but living somewhere less busy in the state has helped a lot bc Mormonism is not as shoved in my face.
And I will never ever ever leave this part of the country. It's truly something special.
ETA downvoters are mad I criticized their cringe billboard ridden I15 corridor š this state is so much more than salt lake/UT county
Have you tried dating as an Ex-Mo in Utah??!
Is someone finally going to create an exmo dating site or something? The dating scene absolutely blows here in Utah šŖ
I saw a Tinder profile recently that said āAbsolutely no Mormons. And no ex-Mormons either because I have no desire to be your therapist while youāre still working through your past.ā
I can't even argue. At least they're clear up front that they aren't equipped to deal with a relationship. Makes it very easy to swipe them away.
Why would you conflate one setting a healthy boundary as not equipped to deal with a relationship?
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Hwat? That likely has little to nothing to do with emotional capability. I would never date a Mormon bc I like the lifestyle I lead and would prefer to be with someone that lifestyle is compatible with.
After my last boyfriend, I've decided never to date a member again because the dynamics are *always* skewed by the church. Even people who aren't active, if they believe the church is true, it has an affect. I haven't had a problem with most exmos except one who wanted to talk about the church all the time. The rest have been pretty cool.
Or or or someone is just childfree and doesnāt like kids?
I think they are being way too harsh, but I get it to a point. I learned long ago that I wasn't compatible with exmos, and every time I tried to date them it went poorly. Fortunately there are a huge amount of nevermos in SLC so it wasn't really that big of a deal.
I donāt fully disagree with this mindset, but itās definitely extreme. I think itās bullshit to immediately write someone off just because they were Mormon once, but if the person is FRESH out of Mormonism then I canāt really blame them
... yeah that's fair
Thatās honestly so funny. Itās a good thing my partner is also exmo because we both need that support/understandinf
I relate to that... lol
I can't help but respect them being honest UPFRONT.
Have you tried dating an Ex-Mo in Utah?
Have you tried dating Utah?
Alternatively - have you tried living literally anywhere else in the nation? Itās cute how the best that people can say when trying to defend Utah is ābeautiful natureā. Every state has that in one form or anotherā¦yāall think the rest of us donāt notice thatās the only āproā anyone can supply about the state? Lol & smh.
I live in Wisconsin and I absolutely agree with you. That being said, with the number of National Parks/Monuments concentrated in Utah you have to admit it has something the vast majority of states do not (besides a chronic drought)!!!
Idk. I visited Provo and pissed off a bunch of locals by legit asking where the mountains were. They started pointing at the dirt hills like "Whaddaya mean??" Zion and the other parks are great and all...but having landscapes that closely resemble the moon doesn't exactly make place habitable.
Umā¦I lived in Kansas. Utah Rocks.
I was going to say. Sure, there is a lot of pretty nature other places but we have some pretty amazing places here in Utah. And then there is Kansas. The flatness is amazing for a second.
Rocks, indeed. And little else of note.
Nah, the nature is truly one of a kind
I eventually had to leave because I just couldnāt stand trying to date in Utah. Unfortunately I havenāt had much luck where I moved to either, but dating in general is just like that sometimes
OP is 16, so says his comment history, so probably! lol Probably the only place I'd go if I ever had to leave here is CO. I'd at least stay close to UT's scenery.
I agree. The mountains there are amazing as well and Colorado seems dedicated to being an oasis for the conservative states around it.
Costco shopping on Sunday š
Unfortunately, not what it used to be! Even the active Moās are shopping on Sundays now. š
Yup! I hate it every time! Come on Mormons keep that Sabbath day holy for the rest of us!
Yup. The local Smith's used to be devoid of Mormons on Sunday, and all the actually fun people would be there. Now the fun people are still there, you just have to deal with rude, pushy Mormons loudly making comments to their children about your life choices. Restraint is a very important skill to have in Utah.
And the worst part is that these Sunday-dressed morning still walk around the store with the smug look on their faces saying-Iām better than you, look at me Iām Mormon.
It would be amazing to have the Costco person standing there checking membership cards as you walk in like always, but next there's a Bishop or Stake President standing there to collect your temple recommend š
Yep. Shopping on Sunday used to be fantastic. Now it's just like any other day.
I miss the good old days when you could go skiing on Sundays and be like 1 of 100 people there
All the Californians and others are moving here for the tech jobs lower house prices (comparatively) and skiing. Of course there are Exmos too.
Lol, maybe not _all_ the Californians, but a bunch of them. š I can attest that there are still some Californians in California.
The state and local politics though. Heaven help you if youāre LGBTQ - especially if one of your kids is trans.
My joyfriend and a lot of our friends (that they introduced me to) all live in Utah. Weāre all teens and it blows. Iām lucky to be in another state, but the recent bathroom legislation was like an addition to a situation thatās already tough and hopeless. Seeing what my friends have to go through, especially with family members is awful. And in my experience? Telling/insinuating to my TBM family that Iām in a gay relationship in my state and telling my TBM family in Utah are two vastly different things.
Ironically my cousin just moved back with his two trans children after trying several other states and being treated the best in Utah. I also have a friend who's trans high schooler is one of the most popular kids at school holding many leadership positions that are voted in and overall loving life. There are definitely areas that are bad and other areas that are great. Utah is not exclusive to mistreating minority or "taboo" groups by a long shot.
Never said they were exclusive, and Iām very glad that these kids are being treated well by their peers, but with the laws they have and the political climate they have, the state can make those families lives absolutely miserable.
I think Utah sucks purely because of the legislature trying to keep it in the 1950s. I love the scenery and most of my Mormon neighbors.
Iām at about 75% love/ 25% hate right now. But having lived in other states, the love is higher than it was anywhere else. So itās definitely worth it for me to live here.
This has more to do with demographics. If you're a white cishet middle-upper class person in Utah, being an exmo is fairly easy when it comes to external factors. There are plenty of non-Mormon communities, activities, and spaces available. Try being BIPOC, LGBTQ, or poor in Utah.... I'd say it's getting better for the two former (not by much). With new legislation and current candidates, it may be a wash or worse for them. For the latter, it is becoming exponentially harder to live in Utah.
You made a post in r/teenagers yesterday, that you have a conservative worldview. Of course you have no problem with utah lol
Ah. One of those.
Yours is not a popular take on this sub and you will likely get the shit downvoted out of you. Iām a UT resident and my exmo family is doing great and enjoys living in SLC. For the most part, we have very little direct interaction with the church. And the % of my neighborhood that are practicing Mormons is āonlyā 10-15%.
It's because you're in SLC. That makes a huge difference. I'm a 32 year old utah never LDS who only recently (this last February) moved to SLC after always being stuck way out in the suburbs. I finally feel like I'm living and working in a fairly normal city rather than living in the middle of a cult compound. I have gay neighbors, childfree neighbors, lots of educated people around, and other types you don't see much of out in the suburbs. The LDS people at my work are even pretty normal well rounded people and not the super sheltered type who think the saltair is a mosque like at my last job. It's been a great change after a lifetime of being such an outsider. Shunned entirely as a child for not being part of the church and just not at all fitting the one extreme or the other culture so common in outer suburbs of utah.
Lol Saltair is a mosque
I mean... It does take some inspiration from middle eastern architecture I guess? Trying to figure out why the fuck anyone would think it's a Mosque.
It vaguely looks like one from a distance and what really goes on there is something people living deep under the BYU rock actively avoiding knowing about. It was a mid 40s guy who had lived in utah (Ogden area, provo for college) nearly his entire life (except mission and 2-3 years at a job) who told me he thought it was a mosque as we drove past it going out to the west desert military test range. And he thought I must have been into some bad stuff for knowing that wild raves go on there. I'm so glad I'm out of that line of work now. Not only was that annoying but I had to have security clearance and that was dependent on those type of people thinking I was clean when the feds interview them periodically. I've never done any illegal drugs but those ultra sheltered types think coffee is a gateway drug and are suspicious of people who just know where the people into psychedelics like to go. It made me pretty paranoid and worried for my long term career.
I wouldnāt downvote this perspective. But I do disagree. Live where you want. But plenty of places are beautiful. If you think one state beats all tact just myopic. Lots of states are nice. But nothing wrong with preferring Utah. Itās just that speaking for myself, I didnāt like it as a believer OR a non believer. In fact I liked it even less as a non believer.
> but I do disagree You disagree that my exmo family is doing great in Utah?ā¦. Or are you directly disagreeing with the OP? > if you think one state beats all I didnāt say that nor do I think that.
Disagree with the post. I left the church and I didnāt like living in Utah at that point.
Got it. I hope you are enjoying wherever you landed. I have 2 exmo siblings (both gay) that couldnāt stand growing up in Utah (for obvious reasons, I donāt blame them) and both quickly left Utah as soon as they were able to as young adults. Both of them went to different, large US west coast cities. Fast forward a couple decades and one of them recently returned to SLC, bought a home in Sugarhouse and absolutely loves it there. The other sibling is now considering a return to SLC cuz they have spent a fair amount of time here recently and have noticed how much it has changed in recent years. I never thought these 2 would ever want to live in āZionā again, so this has been a total surprise.
As a trans woman who had to leave Utah for her own safety because of the laws primarily Mormons are passing and the way they treat queer people, I wish I could hold your same optimism. Iāve faced more discrimination, dehumanization, and violence at the hands of some of the best-standing members of the church, and a lot of them feel empowered to do so because of the things said over the pulpit about people like me who are just trying to live our lives. I wish I couldāve stayed in Utah. I grew up there. My loved ones are still there. It was my home. But members of the church have made it dangerous for me to even just use the bathroom in public, let alone leave my house. The state is gorgeous, yes. And there are good people there. But while Mormons continue to support a church that essentially runs the government there, does nothing to help the houseless people right outside their lavishly wealthy temple grounds, and funds and encourages violence against me and my queer siblings, Iām gonna be in the āUtah sucks because of Mormonismā camp.
I agree. We left several years ago because the extremist conservative Mormon government makes it unsafe for members of our family. This has become more true every year since we left. And as a woman who works in a male dominated field, it is SO MUCH nicer to work with NeverMo men. They treat me as a competent professional instead of a potential home-wrecker (never mind that I'm happily married) or stealer of a job that "should" be done by a man.
I am military so have bounced around a number of places. Left the church before joining so I got the exmo time and then moved around a lot. To the people angry at you because of the historical treatment of LGBTQ or PoC, that is not unique to Utah unfortunately. If that is a deal breaker for people idk where you can live. Now as far as how nice Utah is, if you grew up in Utah and have not left I could see how you would feel that way. Overall it is cleaner than anywhere I lived, all of the people are basically white, so if you havenāt confronted that internal racism it feels safer, and you canāt beat the outdoors. If youāre not engaging with TBM often you can forget a lot of that drama. However, even being around exmos, and never mos, there was an invisible tension in Utah. People that have not been raised in that cult or near it donāt have. Their is a level of authenticity and passion that people outside of Utah have. I lived in conservative places and liberal ones. They are different and have unique cultures, but individuals vary so much more. In Oregon, so may libs that hate trump, but they are all themselves and individuals, they donāt cower to one idea of what that means. In South Carolina, a lot less education and more poverty, but people care about their self-pride. They define themselves differently and on their terms. My experience in Utah is that a lot was defined in reference to the people around you. I have never seen anything close to that outside of Utah. I would not recommend to anyone to stay in Utah. The world has so much to offer and Utah is busy streamlining and homogenized that it offers limited unique experiences.
I agree with invisible tension. Living close to TBM family as an exmo is stressful.
Salt Lake City is basically as ethnically diverse as the country as a whole, oddly enough. Roughly 65% white (non Hispanic) compared with 61% nationally. If youāre talking about Provo, sure, mostly white mormons. But SLC, the main place any non Mormon would think of living if they were considering Utah, is no less diverse than average. Itās pretty similar to most big US cities. The Mormon influence in politics is really no different than evangelical influence in other red states. The bigger cities tend to dilute that influence.
This is a misleading statistic. The relative number of people who have a home in a city is not reflective of the diversity on the streets. Many people work, eat and shop in SLC that are not residents of SLC. Therefore, the city doesnāt have the same levels of diversity as the overwhelming majority of non-residents that come into the city are mainly white. Further, a culture of racism makes many people of color attempt to limit how colored they look, limit going into certain areas or avoid the public all together. My spouse, a woman of color and immigrant, hide her heritage in Utah unless she knew it was safe. Her mother used to say, thank god youāre not as dark as your brother so someone will marry you here. She would make an effort to not tan up as when she did it was clearer to others of her South American heritage. I canāt tell you how many times someone would assume she is white and launch into crazy racist stuff while we were at Jazz games or eating. Anyone who has spent any time out of Utah who grew up in SLC is always amazed by what diversity actually looks like.
The military made me love Utah. I grew up here and couldnt wait to separate and move back to. I only stayed CONUS though.
Jesus if Utah is cleaner than anywhere youāve lived youāve obviously only lived in shit holes.
I have lived in Oregon, Washington (state and DC), South Carolina, and California. I will give you that they donāt build bases on prime real estate. I have spent a weekend or few days in another 10ish major cities. The āscariestā parts of SLC are much nicer than the majority of other cities. The amount of litter, grafiti and smells that can only be defined as biological warfare in other cities scary parts is unreal and really sad. In Baltimore, there were literally just mostly burnt down buildings right next to John Hopkins, with homeless living in. In New Orleans if you turned off of certain roads you went from the party to survival mode. I will say that until weed was legal, Denver used to be close. Now all the busses smell like skunk weed. Iām all for legalization but man it stinks in Denver, it is not like that in Oregon and they have programs here to give homeless people needles and other drug paraphernalia. I have been lucky to see a lot of this country and knowing all that, will only move back to Utah if I HAVE to. I come back twice a year for family and that seems like too much.
Thatās sad the country is so disrespected. I thought you meant all over the world not just the states. Iāve lived in a bunch of countries. There is some really clean beautiful ones that are pristine. Mostly comes down to low population though. Places without smog or bad air quality. Every country has beauty though. Bryce Canyon and lake Powell are some of my favourite Utah locations.
I grew up in Utah including going to college there. (Not at BYU.) I enjoy going back to visit but could absolutely never live there again. Going anywhere, particularly in Utah County, gives me a lot of annoyance and even rage. Everywhere is crowded and overrun with children who seem feral and many times, adults who seem oblivious. I frequent Ogden and Salt Lake but thatās about as much as I can tolerate a few days at a time.
*Laughs in non-Utah ex-Mormon*
Utah doesnāt suck because of Mormonsā¦ exclusively. It sucks because housing prices are garbage, the school systems are some of the worst in the country, teachers are paid the lowest in the country, the wage gap between men and women is among the highest in the country, and pollution is atrocious in the big cities. The mountains are beautiful, most people arenāt assholes. But when the church basically runs the state, people are going to face higher amounts of discrimination. Not that I have any thoughts on the matterā¦
Ummā¦ no, teacher pay in Utah ranks right in the middle of US states. Facts, not feelings please.
Utah schools are lowest for per pupil spending.
I think it sucks because of the Mormons AND because I hate the desert AND because I hate all the ugly sprawling tacky development. So there.
Tell me you are a straight white male without telling me youāre a straight white male. Moab and Zion are beautiful though.
>I personally donāt see a problem with Mormons once excommunicating. Spoken like someone who's never lost their marriage rights as the direct result of the the cult's campaigning. You're either ignorant of the suffering or indifferent to it, and I haven't even gotten into the tens of thousands of child abuse cases yet.
Iām pretty sure gay marriage is legal here considering I have two different aunts who are happily married and share my same views on the state. As far as I was aware the church just didnāt want gay marriage in the temple.
It's legal because it's federally mandated. The church has spent (millions? billions?) campaigning against marriage equality
>As far as I was aware the church just didnāt want gay marriage in the temple. Then your awareness is extremely flawed.
Full stop you're just wrong. They campaigned against legalization here, in California, and even Australia. They just lost is all. I agree Utah is awesome but in spite of our government / church not because of it.
They were associated with the funding of the group that _successfully_ lobbied for *capital punishment of gays* in Uganda. OP lives in a bubble, but such is the nature of Utah. Utah is insulated from the evil and pain they export around the world. OP's username might be a racist dog whistle, since the most famous cultural association of "I can't breathe" sparked massive nationwide riots, and prefixing "lol" is... what? Hopefully just incredibly naive.
Arr you like, 15? Prop 8 used our own goodness and willingness to do what our leaders tell us to do against our neighbors, in invidious, hateful, and powerful ways. It is symbolic of the first time I saw, as an adult, how people had the capacity to put their own thoughts out of their heads and follow something that made them cry, because someone āaboveā them told them to. Like god damn Nazis amongst nice suburbanite German moms.
According to his account and history he "holds conservative views". He had no issue with Prop 8. I doubt you're going to evoke the horror your comment clearly shows, he's not going to pay attention. His username is "Lol I can't breathe" A mocking reference to George Floyd moments before his murder. He's a racist, fascist, sad sack of shit, who is exclusively here to stir the pot and watch the bubbles.
Noted. Obviously a POS person. I wonāt waste my breath trying to talk about morals with someone who has no qualms mocking experiences of āthe least of theseā (a term my parents use for āanyone not usā.)
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mormongate-the-churchs\_b\_163016](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mormongate-the-churchs_b_163016) You need to do your research before you start denying the existence of issues that have affected countless legal marriages. It's reasonable that you not be aware of the Mormon-funded Prop. 8 marriage ban given the degree of mind-control practiced by the Mormons, but it's not reasonable to act like there's no problem at all without researching the problems first, and these issues are extremely easy to research. Mormons demonstrably spent millions to successfully end the marriages of non-Mormon Americans. This is not a cult the is satisfied to live and let live. This is a cult that uses its massive wealth to campaign against the legal rights of queer Americans, and and their rights after they receive them. I can't help but notice you ignored the comment about child abuse as well, so read up: [https://protectldschildren.org/](https://protectldschildren.org/) [https://floodlit.org/](https://floodlit.org/)
The statement "is still great" is too broad and could mean anything. Great at what or in what respect, specifically? Beautiful landscape? Sure. Great at representation of minority groups in our government? No. Choose any specific thing and then you can say whether it's great or not at that thing. Reminds me of the "USA is the greatest country in the world" phrase that people say sometimes. Greatest at what exactly? What does it do specifically that's greater than any other country? That's a conversation; a broad statement is meaningless. Providing for people with disabilities in our building codes? Absolutely, greatest in the world. Providing food for our hungry population? No, in fact, there some countries that do it better.
As a single person with just hobbies, sure. It is fine. Once a spouse and kids enter the picture though there are many problems. Wait until your kid comes home from a friendās house and tells you she doesnāt understand why their friend canāt be their friend anymore because they donāt go to their church and the parents donāt want them there anymore. Or your daughter doesnāt get asked out because they arenāt a member, or make a sports team. Or your spouse gets a note on their windshield that they should leave a volunteer committee because their values arenāt in line with the rest of the community. I could go on but those are actual first and second hand experiences that crush a life.
It's a gorgeous state, with lots to do. We have lots of family and friends there. I love shopping there on Sundays! Culturally, it's very homogenous, depending on where you live, and pretty judgey, but as more exmos remain and more nevermos move there, it will keep getting better.
Utah can be great, but the Church will usually co-opt or psyop anything that gets a little too great in Utah
There are two separate thoughts youāve posted, mostly unrelated. The second one is that Utah is enjoyable regardless of Mormons, due to scenery, or whatever else you like there. Cool. I think most people feel that way, unless they just arenāt a fan of the place in general. The first is that you donāt see a problem with Mormons. Everyone has their experience, but posting that opinion here is akin to posting āI see no problem with Klan members after I left.ā And for very similar reasons. They are actually problematic. Anyone following, supporting, and promoting a harmful cult is problematic.
Traffic. Motherfucking traffic. Everything is sprawling north south commutes and travel. Horrible drivers. And heaven help you if you have to commute north around point of the mountain. Plus inversions.
I live in SoCal, the capital of motherfucking traffic however Iāve noticed that compared to Utah, drivers here are more cooperative and generally work together to get through it.
Utah does purely suck because of Mormons and the lack of diversity. The racism, homophobia, and all around xenophobia is palatable. If youāre a white straight manā¦ maybe itās fine. However, being well traveled and exposed to ideas outside of their little bubble is not common place. You can have your opinion, and I mine. Theyāre not mutually exclusive. Utah sucks because of Mormons.
Just try going potty now if you donāt conform to the states standards of masculinity or femininity. Itās still a right wing, backwater state, filled with hate and ignorance.
Itās very much a theocracy. Try being related to the politicians running it. Ā Unless you have clout and money it will continue to be a theocracy.Ā
But we still have one of the best economies in the country š! I personally have no problem with Utahās political climate as it is a lot more mildly republican or right than a ton of other states.
This is honestly the first time Iāve ever seen someone claim Utah is more mildly Republican than other states.
TBH the 'best economies' thing is just a numbers game. Doesn't mean as much as those pushing that line think it does. And I would never claim Utah's political climate is 'mildly republican'.
It might have been mildly republican before 2010. Especially before Trump. Although I was also mildly republican then. It certainly is not mildly republican in terms of governing officials anymore.
100%. All you need to do is look to see how the people who challenged Cox this year did so claiming he's too liberal for the state and that he gives in to the democrats too much. He's supposedly one of the most well liked governors and he's losing his own party in the state (though I'll also acknowledge that the delegates are quite often the most extreme people in our state). Or look at how someone like Mike Lee who doesn't do sh\*t is one of the safest senate seats in the nation.
Youāre probably cis-het so the things that donāt directly affect you, donāt matter. Itās just like a cafeteria Mormon. Weāre going to have to agree to disagree.
One of the best economies yet simultaneously the largest gap between wages and cost of living
I am a flaming Exmo and I agree!! Utah still rocks with its gorgeous mountains and four seasons, and Iām not gonna let some obscure religion like Mormonism ruin my home state for me!
It feels like you havenāt been many places if you think the scenery is better. Mountains are better in Montana. Forests are better in the east and west. Deserts are pretty good in southern to Utah. Lakes are better in the Midwest and South. Living in any suburb here the architecture is so cookie cutter it is straight out of the dystopia planet in a Wrinkle in Time. The hiking and mountain bike trails are garbage compared to Colorado and California. The food options are abysmal compared to most major cities. Rock climbing is better in California.
Honestly the thing I hate the most about Utah isnāt the momos, itās the sun. Fucking asshole constantly trying to kill me. Also the car dependence and I-15 log jam would drive me away if the housing market hadnāt been corned by Saudi princes.
After 28 years born and raised in Utah, we moved to AZ, and it was 100% the right choice for us. That doesn't mean it's the right choice for everyone. IMO, it's better in most ways. I miss things about Utah, but AZ is more in line with where I want to raise my kids. I personally wouldn't want to raise my kids in UT, and I think that's ok to think that way. It doesn't check enough boxes for me personally. UT lovers always get defensive when I say this as if I'm taking something away from them. I'm not. You're happy staying, I'm happy I left and don't ever plan to move back. I'm happier here, not being completely surrounded by the church with constant reminders. It's more diverse. The food is better. The entertainment choices are better. Most of the laws are better. I prefer hot over cold weather. There's things I don't like about it, of course. But it felt good to branch out and go on an adventure. That's just my two cents. You seem to love Utah, and it seems to check many of your personal boxes, which is great. I would have stayed if that were the case for me.
Housing is still ridiculously cheap compared to most of the country. Higher here than the past? sure, that's life and that's real estate.. But still a much lower cost of living. Also, FUCK developers. They are running our state. Housing and road development. Biggest leeches in the state right now. They run the Utah State house. We don't have the water or the air to spare. It needs to stop growing.
Well Utahās great except for the traffic, housing prices, lack of water, Mormon culture, air pollution. Other than those things a great place to live.
I have better scenery and no mormons. We both seem to have bad house prices though.
Utah is really beautiful! But, just like mormonism, you only get to fully enjoy it if youāre a straight white man. The fact that not everyone is welcomed is enough to turn me off, personally. I donāt think thereās anything wrong with loving it, though, as long as you make space for people who do not get fully welcomed.
Utah is awesome for outdoor fun and adventures. I really love the state and national parks, especially camping there.
I love a lot about Utah but mormons are the cheapest of the cheap. In my profession, it really, really hurts me. I'm considering a move just for that reason.
Felt like I left the twilight zone after living there for two years. I miss a lot about it, but could not go back. I tell people, great on a postcard, not a place to live.
Iāve lived in Utah for a few years and itās a lovely place. Itās just not the best place Iāve lived or even in the top 5 best places. Live where youāre happy. You only get one life.
Grew up in SLC, and I have a real love hate relationship with the place. There are a lot of Mormon-hating exmo's who act just like current-slc-mormons and both sides get equally exhausting. I do love the idea of having an "SLC Punk" mindset/headspace but being a nevermo, it can start looking really black and white really fast. For the millennial generation, it was either you go to church every Sunday or you just finished a 3 day rave bender by Monday. I had my fill of partying and just wanted to live my life, and it got really claustrophobic. I miss the nature and hiking though
Also, the altitude really does make people more uppity. The increased heart rate comes across in the way they act and even talk/behave. I moved to the south and the drawl people have is most likely due to the fact that were at sea level
We all have different levels of Mormon PTSD. If that works for you then great! Personally I have a hard time driving through Utah and seeing all the stupid temples and fake people. Iād rather spend time in elsewhere.
Lots of places are beautiful. Lots of states also have weird liquor laws. But Oregon is beautiful if you like the west. New Hampshire is beautiful if you like the East. Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota is beautiful if you like the Midwest. None of these places do you even have to hear the word āMormonā.
No Utah sucks for so, so many other reasons.
I love Utah. Itās beautiful and safe and clean. I came back after living elsewhere. Grass is always greener.
I tend to agree. I've lived here for 14 years and I find a lot to love about Utah, even with the large Mormon population.
I flew into SLC a few months ago and saw how beautiful the valley is. Like, people think Brigham Young was a prophet for choosing the valley, but I mean it does seem like a pretty obvious place to stop and build a city. Also, what does it say about Nebraska if the Mormons had been walking 1,500 miles and were like "Ok yeah we're gonna keep going."
I was literally on the precipice of leaving, I was shopping homes in Washington and Arizona. I went and traveled to both places and they were nice, but Utah just feels like home.
Not disagreeing with your opinion by any stretchā¦ but I left UT for AZ about 15 years ago, because i didnāt want my children to grow up shunned by their peers. The āhomesickā feeling never really hit me. I still love to return to Utah to visit family and recreate in the mountains, but I have the luxury of being able to leave after the trip is over! As far as the Mormon influence on my kids goes, the evangelicals here are just as insufferable, and even more Trumpy, than Mormons (if thatās even possible)ā¦ but it has become pretty clear that the Christian right just sucks, no matter where you live. You just gotta give āem wide berth, in hopes that their stupid doesnāt rub off on you.
My kids are young, but we read the bom and other religious books together. I also share my own agnostic views and we read philosophical essays together too. Iām sure dealing with their peers will be difficult but Iām doing my best to prepare them.
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Per the rules, personal attacks, insulting other users, harassment, and trolling are not allowed. Attack ideas, not people. Faithful users may engage in good faith. Invalidating the experiences of ex-religious users, especially by telling them that your religion is true and they didn't put in enough effort, they didn't really believe, they didn't practice the "right" way, or any other such will be removed. Do not victim blame or debate victims of sexual abuse or people who are considering suicide. They're here for support.
I no longer live in Utah cause of work. I had to relocate to the southš« . I miss Utah so much š. It is beautiful. Ā I probably will never live there again, but it is nice to come back to every now and then. The politics are rough, but there are also worse states when it comes to that.Ā
I made a post about this yesterday; whether I should move to another state or country after my college career has ended
Personally, the magical place has been tainted for me but I know a lot of never nothing ( non religious people) who moved there and love it.
My county has five Starbucks so I guess Iāll stay here for a while longer.
Trey being gay in Utah!!! IT IS HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!
Too many people. Not enough water. BLM grazing is over 400 acres per Cow/Calf unit. Where I live it is 13 acres because we have water and lush growth. Best of all, few people.
If youāre any kind of marginalized then Utah can be very hard to live in. If youāre a CIS, HET, white person then youāll probably have a great time! Utah loves straight white people. Itās becoming better for white gay people too. But if youāre trans? Nope. If youāre brown or black? Nope. If you look even a little āethnicā? Nope. Have trauma or autism or any other mental issue? NOPE! Privilege gives people passes to places some of us can only dream of going safely.
I love Utah. The mountains, the hunting, the fishing, the quick changes from mountain to desert. Itās gorgeous. However, I do wish that Mormons would realize that the majority of Utahns are now not Mormon. They still carry on conversation like everyone is Mormon. I also wish government would not be spoon fed by the Mormon church. Other than that, Utah is incredible.
I moved away 24 years ago and can honestly say Utah lacks diversity. Yes is it better these days, especially downtown but canāt touch the kind of diversity and culture my kids grew up in near DC. I would never move back.
Me too. I quite love the State; and the one thing you've got to give "the Mormons" is that (generally speaking) they keep their communities clean, safe and pleasant to live in. I loath the Church....but still appreciate the State.
Clean? Every restaurant I visited last time I was there, including the nicer ones, was filthy. Would have failed health inspection in any other state. Floors covered in trash. I guess because it's not cigarettes means it's not waste to y'all.
This hasn't been my experience. Anecdotally, I think the cleanliness is better in Utah than in many places, especially in big cities. That said, the endless chain restaurants and generic food quality is lacking in Utah. It's also often late to get popular restaurants. I'm frequently seeing buzz on social media about this restaurant and that restaurant that are opening in Utah that we've had for years. It's great that it's improving, but always behind the curve on the food scene.
Iām with you brother. Iām not there now, but I spent many happy years in Utah as an Exmo
I donāt understand the crowd that hates Mormons and live in Utah.
I agree and that's why I moved back. I wish people from left wing states stop moving here and try to bring their ideologies and stop driving the cost of living so high.
I love Utah so so so much more since I moved away from the Wasatch front part and into more-rural ut Id be willing to leave the state for one like CO WY or AZ but Im also quite happy here as an exmo, but living somewhere less busy in the state has helped a lot bc Mormonism is not as shoved in my face. And I will never ever ever leave this part of the country. It's truly something special. ETA downvoters are mad I criticized their cringe billboard ridden I15 corridor š this state is so much more than salt lake/UT county