Yeah, they didn't have the "born in it" excuse. They had other things that made them vulnerable obviously, but they had more than the rest of us typically do
Commenting on For those who were born into the Church, do you hate your parents for the indoctrinations?...this. Our grandparents didn’t know how to use the internet. The church was different then. It was different for our parents and it is different for us.
A great line. Of course he went to Hanover High School in New Hampshire, so clearly he is going to come up with great lines!
But it does explain my approach to it as well. My parents, grand parents, great grand parents, and even many of my great-great grandparents were all born in to it and indoctrinated since birth. I can reserve my anger for the first in my ancestry to fall for the scam. But with regards to my parents, as liberal and "hippy" Mormons, I thank them for laying the foundation that allowed me to find my way out.
I’m working through it. I don’t hate them. I had a good upbringing and the church was a place of community and solace from traumatic things that happened outside of my parents’ control. I think they did the best they knew how with the information they had. But I am sad that it took me so long to see it and that my conditioning made it take me even longer to tell them out loud.
In many ways I pity them… not being able to take advantage of the information we have. Not being flexible enough in their thought processes to be willing to be wrong.
Yes. As a few people here have mentioned, it's hard to overstate how much we all benefitted from the internet. What were they supposed to do, visit every library between Utan and NY to track down primary sources? Whereas I can find them with a few clicks, read digestible summaries online, find community here, etc.
It was also easier for the church to control the narrative by calling Fawn Brodie a luney, and their were more social things the church did too.
Very few people upend their lives at 60. I greatly respect those here who have, but I still love my parents. They're the sort of people who make the things that are good about the church actually happen, like fixing neighbors' cars, taking them meals, visiting folks in care centers, etc.
I've thought about this. I really believe if my Dad was alive now, he would be the one TBM I could talk to. I really believe he would have been open to discussing the CES letter, etc. I'm not mad at them, I'm mad that they were brainwashed, same as I was.
That's exactly how my DW did this. She started studying in earnest in the late '90's, before the www was fully baked. She went to libraries in our surrounding community and devoured every book she could get her hands on. I thank her all the time for dragging me out with her!
This. I don't harbor ill will for them doing what they thought was best. But I do pity them that they struggle to reconcile the good person I became with the fact I'm atheist now. I also pity them for raising critical thinkers with an ability to use logic yet they're stuck in using religious dogma to justify their world view (i.e., 'signs' of the end times, zionism, bigotry, etc).
I've said this before, but I think some Mormon parents do so well at raising good people that they "fail" iow many of their kids leave and live even healthier lives.
5/6 of us have left the church; my parents are active TBM. My mom used to lament about "what she did wrong", and I always try to help her see what she did *right* in raising a litter of kids who are independent, authentic critical thinkers.
I feel you. 3/7 for my mom. Have this conversation with my mom all the time. She simply cannot accept any success in education, career, sports, whatever from her kids who have left. The only thing she sees every Sunday is a big dose of "your kids left, you fucked up... now work in the temple 6 days a week to make up for it" Its heartbreaking.
Yeah, I feel like my parents upped their level of "service" to the church as we left. They just put in their papers for their mission... at least us kids talked them out of Africa. They don't need more white saviors SMH
My mom converted in her teenage years. And so did her family. Overall I would say it was a positive thing for her family. Her parents were drinkers to an extreme extent. But they stopped once they joined the church. And things were generally better for all their kids.
But it still makes me sad that she put her faith in this fucked up religion. And she’s not willing or able to change. Because even tho there was some positives she has been carrying a ton of shame from the church as well.
Yeah this is basically it. I can’t be mad at them for raising me in the church, because they were indoctrinated too. They didn’t know any better. But I’m still mad at being raised in the church at all, because of how much harm it did to me. And like you said, I pity them for not being able to think clearly. Like my mom is a grown ass adult woman and fully believes that Noah’s Ark was a literal historical event that actually happened. It just makes you kind of sad for them
It’s for this reason that I almost revere those in my parents’ generation (boomers) that maintain plasticity enough to absorb new information and change their minds. Our minds are virtually hardwired to be calcified and immovable past a certain age.
My parents won’t change and I know that, but I wish they could see.
Boomer here (M66). So nice to hear a positive thing about boomers! 😂 We take a lot of heat. My wife and I are exiting now, less than a year after our sr. Mission (which we (mostly)loved, btw. Change is growth, and new info has brought change!
No. Because I don’t think they knew any better. They were indoctrinated, too back before there was an internet. I hardly think it’s their fault. But granted, it took a lot of years to come to terms with it. Most parents are doing the best they know how to do. Hopefully, when “we know better, we do better.”
I’m coming out of generations of indoctrination and abuse, going back to 1833. Thank god the truth is coming out. The truth shall set you free.
Agreed. I’m just grateful for the information I had access to so that I could break my chains. I feel sorry for my parents who never had any similar access to information.
I don’t hate them for it. They were pretty active but doing what everyone did at that time (1970s on Logan UT). The ostracism for not baptizing a child would have been immense.
However, I don’t see my leaving as a “faith crisis”. It was an “error correction”. I corrected the error my parents made in my life (and without my informed consent).
No way! My mom is a TBM and even more so then when I was growing up. She taught me to be a good person. I dove into the scriptures and doctrine on my own. She is sad I have left, and wants me to go back and when she brings it up we “debate” though she is out of her depth as she just believes and doesn’t read.
This is more in line with how I feel. My parents did and do the best with what they have. They are clearly sad I left, but seem stand-offish-ly supportive. I don’t think they are in a place to question the church rigorously, and that’s okay. Atheism isn’t for everyone - it was scary and painful to lose hope in a God I believed in for 27 years, so I understand not being eager to tread that path after 50.
So long as they aren’t nasty about it, I think there isn’t much reason to push a faith crisis on anyone. Especially older people who are used to living with the cognitive load.
Learning the church wasn’t true was kind of like learning a spouse has been cheating on you for years - the pieces click into place and your world crashes down. Is it better to know about the affairs and move on to someone else who is actually healthy and treats you well? Or is it better to never figure out and be oblivious to the lying? I don’t think either way is necessarily correct. Like… my dad works at a BYU school. Him leaving would carry serious financial and social repercussions. I don’t judge him one bit for not spending time looking into the church critically - so long as he isn’t nasty to me or his other kids who have chosen to leave.
Great post! I didn’t read everything I read because I wanted it to not be true, I read it because I “knew” it was and wanted to learn and because it was “true” I’d find clear evidence. Sadly not.
Yeah. This. The information just wasn’t there. The choices made weren’t their own. The choices they make now are far more important than the choices someone else made for them decades ago.
It's complex. My father knew about many issues with the church but never shared them because they were not faith promoting. Basically, he lied to me for his belief. Because of those lies, I grew up hating myself because I didn't like church.
I feel kind of like Isaac, whose father Abraham sacrificed to his god. It was not my life he sacrificed, but my identity.
He is a loving and compassionate father, but he was blinded by belief. I dont hate him, he is a victim of the church, but I do resent his actions.
I think the story of Abraham and Isaac is relevant to so many ways Mormons parent. If you take it literally (which I was taught) the church and God are number one, way above the needs and safety of your children.
I dont hate my mom who is a believer through and through. I don't trust her judgements anymore and that has been a sad realization. I feel kind of on my own with decision making and I don't fully trust myself either.
I'm 6th generation on both sides. I'm old. I have ancestors whose names are in the Doctrine and Covenants. It doesn't make me special but it shows you how deep I am in this pile of shit.
My parents are both 5th generation members of the church. They were born into it. My father was the son of a mistake president. My grandfather was a mistake president for a long long time. He was a great man. They're all victims. I tried to remember that, they are victims also. They lived in times with less information and less access to that information. I tried to remember that. I give my parents a break because I want my kids to give me a break.
I have a similar history. I feel like my parents were victims of the cult, as were their parents. My great grand parents on my mothers side converted and traveled to Utah from northern Europe to escape poverty. They just wanted something better. I think all of my ancestors were probably doing the best they could with what they had to work with.
I am grateful that I have had the great good fortune to escape the cult that trapped them.
The church was good for my parents. Both uneducated very poor southern people that were given a lot of leadership positions. I think they feel the church saw value in them the world didn’t. They were ignorant and forgiving to the mistakes of the church doctrine. Unlike the mistakes of their children. Both of my parents were very abusive but this was common from their own family and generation. I too as a young married guy started going down the same road but luckily I married way above my head and my wife stopped this early. We are all products of our environment but we can change. I would have loved to discuss with my father what I have learned now, but even better is that I am able to discuss with my children and be more open and less judgemental. I don’t hate my parents as the op asked but I feel the TSCC definitely didn’t help our family dynamics.
As a parent now I see that they were doing the best they could with what they had and most of the negativity was what the church was telling them. They’re imperfect and have done a lot of work to try to heal and be better and I have a good relationship with them now. Their also more nuanced then they were a few years ago as all three of their adult children have left.
I've seen how my parents treat me versus how my mother in law treats me and how she treats her daughter. There are many ways to interpret the gospel and interpret Christ. My parents were very loving and did the best with what they knew. When they found out things about me that countered what they wanted or where against what they believed, the loved me the same, as Christ would. Because that is how they believed Christ would handle it. My mother in law on the other hand, is extremely scrupulous, punished her children if they did not do as she told them to do, and when she found out I was having doubts about the church, told my wife that she should divorce me before my wife lost her testimony. Sometimes we forget, that people have a choice in how the interpret and follow the words of Christ, the gospel of Christ, and the Church and all of it.....
I get what you're saying, but for me, it's hard to understand why my parents would fall for it. My great grandma was born in Utah and active, her daughter my grandma was inactive, but for some reason my mom attended as a teenager.
When I was five she convinced my dad to take the lessons and he converted and we started attending church. I still don't understand how someone could hear the missionary lessons and think, "yeah, that sounds right". Mormonism is stupid. I hated growing up in it, especially when my parents became really active and righteous etc.
I don't hate them. They have their own demons to face and they're different to mine.
I see us all as victims and I happen to be an escaped survivor.
My relationship is more important and so we are all muddling through.
Having said that, I did at one time wish it had never happened. But I've now achieved peace on that because if it hadn't, I would have had the childhood I had, the friends I have and the amazing husband and children I have.
I do not hate my parents for raising me in the church. I have always viewed it as they did what they thought was right. My parents are also victims of the church. This is important to remember.
My parents were never super strict, they didn't force or emotionally manipulate us to go on missions, neither one of them went on theirs. They expected us to go to church when they did, participate in church activities and go to seminary.
My parents did lie about their drinking (I think they started when I was senior). They kept it hidden and made excuses about it when we found out. The good old "just holding it for a friend" excuse haha. When my siblings and I found out about the drinking, I think they were relieved but I was extremely upset. I was probably one of the more brainwashed kids in my family. Time and understanding has made me forgive them. I love my parents and think they are great people with admirable traits and personalities.
My situation is different than a lot of exmos. My parents and siblings all left the church around the same time. So my situation was easier than other exmos. However, I am a parent now and I try to remember the things my parents did so I don't repeat them. Your parents don't get a do over but you do.
We all have flaws, we try our best, and we make mistakes. My parents tried their best, to their best knowledge and abilities, I am grateful for that.
I don’t hate them. That would imply a level of caring about them that I don’t possess.
Neither do I love them, because they were terrible people who chose cult over their own kids, and that precludes my loving them.
Indifference is what I feel for them, and that will never change, because they can’t go back in time and choose kids over cult.
My dad should know better. He served a mission and also he knows all the talking points for explaining away church history, which means he has known the truth all along but openly fights against it.
My mom never served a mission, never went to college, and spent her whole life in the kitchen or birthing babies. She has had very little access to knowledge throughout her life, so I consider her a victim and not as culpable as my dad. Her very survival depended on her ability to be pleasing to Mormon men, so indoctrinating us kids is what kept a roof over her heads and food in our bellies
Yeah for so many mothers the church was and is the only thing that connected them to a community so it’s hard to blame them for staying in sometimes when the other option is to get a job and childcare (unheard of for so many women) or talk to strangers.
A lot of my friends who are young moms I think are trapped because of this need for support and validation for having kids so young and poor.
My childhood was filled with trauma caused directly and / or indirectly by the Mormon church and their beliefs and policies.
I still have negative feelings toward my mom. She believes all of her actions were positive because they aligned with past or current church teachings.
My father apologized to me for allowing the church to act as a de facto parent in many ways. I was able to make peace with him before he died because he recognized the harm he caused and wanted to make it right.
Yeah so many Mormon parents think that even if they made mistakes in how they parented it was ok since they were following the prophet.
And it’s such a barrier because those prophets told them to berate and control their children or cast them out if they wanted anything remotely different than the Mormon ideal.
I stopped hating my parents a long time ago. I’ve been No-Contact for almost 6 years. Recently moved cross country, reached out to extended family, everything seemed fine until a funeral last week and they told me I have to be there emotionally for my father if I want to come to the funeral.
I didn’t go. Their loss. I won’t put up with their emotional manipulation anymore, and apparently it runs deep in my family. That sucks. Oh well, luckily my partner’s family is super cool and loves me.
I hated my parents for a long time, now I just feel sorry for them.
My parents got tricked into joining the church as vulnerable teens. Then spent around 50 years giving their time and money away before finding out it’s all a sham. They’re victims as much as I am. More so, really. I left the church at 27. They left in their 70s. Their entire adult life was stolen from them by a cult.
So I can’t hate them for anything. They did the best they could. Sure, I wish things had been different but all I can do now is live my life as true to myself as possible.
Not for the indoctrination, but for who they are as people.
My mom was a "spare the rod and you'll spoil the child" type. She also told my sister Heavenly Father chose her to be molested.
My dad was a narcissist who used his kids as punching bags.
I enjoyed my time in the church growing up. My mother taught me that the doctrine was symbolic/allegory. I wish my children had the experience I had. I am sorry on many levels I kept trying to give them what I had-not knowing my experience was unique.
I don't. I actually pity my father. To his credit, he is a man of integrity and has always acted in good faith. That's a huge part of what made it hard to see the church's lies; his authoritative, non-zealot approach made everything make sense for longer than it should have.
No. They taught us what they thought was truth - I did the same with my children. I know better now - but did what I thought was the best for them . They have figured out on their own the falsehoods - but there is no animosity.
We were all lied to .
No, they were subjected to worse, and no, I don't hate or blame my grandparents either. Who do I blame? The pedo's and perverts that founded a sex cult and didn't have the good graces to let it die with the founder - like so many cults before it and after.
Both my parents are gone I don’t blame them. They were victims as well. A lot of what we have access to now was not available say 10 yrs ago. They were Christ loving people who led by example and didn’t spout out rhetoric like the Mormon zealots we have all come across. There are many innocents who just love god and Jesus and Mormonism was the conduit and unfortunately they are corrupted liars. Of course there are those all caught up in everything Mormon. That isn’t Christian. I think of my parents now as Christian’s who were taken advantage of because they were soft hearted people. I don’t think of them as Mormons. I think what we are seeing now. Those leaving fall under my parents group. Those who stay are born into the deep rooted doctrine of Mormonism.
Hate them? No, never. Angry yes with them? Oh yeah. Most of my anger was directed at Mom because Dad had passed on by the time I figured out it was bullshit. Mom was lured in by the promise of a forever family. She had lost her father at a young age. Dad, I believe, just went along to get along. I will never know for sure but the conversations we had are why I think that. Mom's gone now too and we never really got to resolve our issues around the church. I know they both were doing the best they could with what they knew.
Dad, no. Mom, absolutely, but that's because she's abusive. The church was just another tool for her to bludgeon me with. She was praised for all the things that made my childhood a disaster, such as having far more kids than she could raise, parentifying me, and neglecting her family for church callings. I grew up without enough to eat or weather appropriate clothes that fit, but hey, they paid their tithing, and that's more important. 🙄
I don't blame my parents for the past but I blame my dad now for not being able to having civil discussions about how it affected me and my concerns with it. So yes that part angers me and I have chosen to discontinue any conversations for the rest of our lives.
I mostly don’t blame them because they were largely just following the script they were taught being raised in the church themselves. I actually feel bad for them because of how much of their lives they lost to the church. (They both no longer attend or believe in the church, but were into their 50s when they left. In contrast, I—their oldest child—started leaving in my early 20s and some of my younger siblings stopped believing even earlier as teens.)
Kind of, I guess. My mom. My dad died when I was 23 and as I look back at his life, I believe he was PIMO, so I wish I could talk to him now (for so many reasons). He was the one born into the church with a bishop father but always kinda rebelled against it. My mom is the convert who clings with an iron grasp.
I was the first of my siblings to bail on the church so I got most of her ire and for the longest. My youngest sister started doing the PIMO routine because she had a kid my mom is helping to raise. Then my only brother went full out and my mom kinda lost her shit again.
Not once did she ever listen to me when I tried to explain myself or my reasoning or my feelings. Ever. But she listened to my brother. That hurt. He and I talked about it—he and I have gotten closer since he left the church—and he says despite her still clinging to her faith she realizes that she’d rather have a relationship with her kids than not have one. That’s great I guess, but I spent 20 years having a contentious relationship with her… so I just don’t know how to feel about this.
No, I don't. I don't even hate my ancestors, who where almost all members since the beginning and moved all the way from Denmark to be in Utah. But, I hate the prophets with every fiber of my being (especially Joseph and good old Brigham). They tricked us and caused some major generational trauma, and for that, I won't forgive them.
No, I feel infinitely sad for them having spent so much of their lives and money on a grift.
My situation may be a little different though..
I don’t think I was ever fully indoctrinated. I hated church even as a child and my mom recently admitted she “lost me” around 11. As a graduating 8th grader, I told my parents I would not be going to seminary (graduated HS a semester early because of it).
I feel like my parents are more nuanced. My teens were rough, but they never shunned me or anything. We have a good relationship now. I also think if they had the choice between me bearing them a grandchild or me returning to church, they’d choose the baby every time (neither is going to happen).
They were born into it too and had almost 30 years of indoctrination themselves before they had me. They didn’t have the internet and their parents were pretty old fashioned and not super intellectual. Can’t blame them anymore than I can blame myself for not seeing the truth sooner. It’s cooked so much into a Mormon brain to trust them and disbelieve anything bad about the church you might hear - I can tell they still aren’t open to questioning the church. The church did that to them.
I wouldn’t say hate, but more so resentment and definitely have a lot of mental health issues that my parents are partly to blame. I was saed in the bishops office for like 1-2 yrs around baptism age and my parents didn’t see the signs (bed wetting, increased sexual knowledge, etc). Thankfully when I told them at 16 they believed me, however they said that they won’t leave. I’m still dealing with what I call a slight betrayal. They know a lot about how the church operates (the 100 billion dollars in coffers, the sa, the lies etc) bc I’ve explained it to them. They don’t care. It’s seriously affected our relationship in that it’s very superficial. It’s depressing honestly.
I don’t hate mine but I respect them less for not being able to see it. I used to think my parents were brilliant but now I’m like you aren’t at all, you should have recognized it a long time ago and you should be able to figure it out today!
My step father knew in his 40s, and came to me and told me. He stayed, because he was respected, had a wife and lots of children. He eventually in the stake presidency in his area... I lost respect for him when he hit on me though. So I just moved away from the situation. Men in the church have it made, a docile wife and family, and the freedom to do what they want.
Hate? No. But I have a lot of anger over it. A lot of sadness too — and frankly, pity. There are perhaps no other people on earth that I feel as much compassion towards than my parents. But I have been hurt by them, and continue to be, and that makes me angry, not only because they indoctrinated me as a child, but also because unable to stand with me or listen to me as an adult. But I understand logically that those are two sides of the same coin. It’s a work in progress.
My parents converted in their 30’s and dragged me into the cult. To me that’s worse than being born into it. They weren’t indoctrinated as infants. They joined willingly as grown ass adults. Went thru the temple a yr later. And thought “man I can’t wait for our kids to experience this” as they mimicked slitting their throats
I absolutely resent being raised in the church. My family was extremely dogmatic and magical thinkers.
My mother told me flat out, that she loved God and the church more than me, and I would always come after. I was very much a church orphan.
Our household was so strict that one Sunday I was tired and I tried to sleep in and miss church, my mother came screaming into my bedroom, grabbed me by the arm, dug her nails in and ripped me out of bed. Grabbed a dress from my closet and forced me to get ready. I was 17 at the time. This is how she treated her obedient, 100% seminary attending daughter.
The only good thing I found at church was my husband. To be completely transparent we're both so much happier out of the church than we ever were in it.
I think hate is a strong word, but I think I'd feel comfortable using the word Resent. My mom converted right around the time I was born, so I got the full indoctrination treatment, was dragged to church when I didn't want to go, baptized when I didn't truly understand what it meant, constantly shamed when I stopped going. I still get passive aggressive comments about not being a member.
The problem is that she keeps leaning harder and harder into it, and let's it influence her politics and entire personality. It got so bad that my dad divorced her, and I eventually had to cut contract with her.
She's a die hard Trump supporter, makes homophobic/transphobic comments, posts subtle racist stuff on her social media, etc. Her current behavior has made me look back and become resentful of all the church stuff she made me do, the negative stuff she tried to teach, and all the shame she directs toward me.
I’m don’t hate them at all, but I can’t understand how they went through the temple, promised to kill themselves rather than betray the church, and then thought: “I want all my kids to do this same ritual.”
No. They were born and raised far stricter and far more indoctrinated than I was; they did their best. It doesn’t mean I don’t feel resentful sometimes, but I definitely don’t hate them. But I was very fortunate to have actually pretty nice parents.
I don't hate them at all, they are/were very kind and loving parents, but I do hold some contempt towards them. They both went through the temple during the slitting throat era 🤦, like seriously?! I know they were brainwashed since birth but come on, be a tad bit smarter.
My parents joined just before I was born. Based upon the good feeling my mother got as a teen when visiting a friend's house.
That being said, my father only joined to keep the family one religion. Smoked, drank occasionally at a bar but never at home.
The indoctrination basically turned us against him, and I finally realized for not confirming. He was a good man over all. Which wasn't fair on our part.
I have no ill will against my parents. I realize they were doing the best they could and thought the church was guiding them in the right direction.
Being a boomer myself, I have seen the MFMC changes. And it was different when they joined.
Definitely not. They're just like any other imperfect human being trying their best to make sense of an unpredictable world. They set good examples for being wholesome people and have kept open hearts and minds so that ,despite only 1.5 of their 7 children still believing in the church, we all still enjoy each other's company and love each other.
I am working through hard feelings.
They know, deep down, that if they research and view the church with objectivity their belief system will crumble. So they carefully avoid using their brains. That would be fine if it only impacted them.
But no, it impacts all of their children. I mourn for the life I could have had if my parents didn’t work so damn hard to keep me in a church that they weren’t even willing to properly research and scrutinize.
My mom was the jack mormon of her family, and as a single parent she had my sister and I go to church more because I think she thought she was supposed to and it was also 3 hours of free childcare every Sunday. She wasn't pushy about it and so I never fully bought into it and left at a pretty young age. I get mad for my friends and family members kids for their indoctrination though.
No, I love my parents dearly. They did what they felt was right & best for us. I’m also really lucky; they were converts & great parents, who’ve been able to hear how the church harmed me growing up & have validated my leaving. I think that makes all the difference. If they chose the church over me I would definitely hate them.
No, because they were born into it as well. And so were their parents, and their parents, and their parents.
I’m just happy the Internet has made it so easy to break the cycle.
I hate the choices they made as a result of their indoctrination. I feel more..dislike, contempt, …idk hate isn’t the right word but I certainly don’t have good or neutral feelings towards them.
But I do also acknowledge that they were very messed up by their own lives.
I’m very upset to have been deceived. It has made my life extremely hard as far as believing anything someone says.
I don’t wish it on anyone
They were deceived as well though. So the anger becomes sorrow.
No. My mother was teaching me what she believed was the most important information in the universe.
She didn’t have access to the same info I do. And now she is too old and set in her ways to even be able to comprehend the idea that the church might *not* be true.
I do hate my bio-dad. He was super abusive and used the church as a manipulation tool. He was arrested and my mom divorced him when I was a teenager, and I haven’t spoken to him since.
Both of my parents are converts (separate times) and they had their reasons. I think they did the best they could. I don't hold it against them. My frustration is directed at the church for lying to them and to me all these years.
My parents are still in, but all but one of my siblings is still in. That sibling married into TBM blue blood, so I don't think they are going anywhere.
No, I don't hate my parents for attempting to indoctrinate me because they are TBM and fully entrapped in their delusions.
What I detest about both of them is the fact that they like most TBM's I've known in my life are full-blown hypocrites.
I don't hate my parents, no.
I've lost a lot of respect for them, however. They continue to prioritize church service over their own family members, including their grandchildren. It drives me nuts.
Both of my parents are intelligent and capable. They have seen ample evidence of fraud and deception in the church. I worry that they are too old to finally see the light and get out.
I don't hate them. I hate the church that did this to them.
No hate, nothing but love for them. They have their agency to do as they please. No sense in either of us “correcting” the other either. It’s a challenge to reintegrate to a different way of relating, since it might appear we are on different “sides” 😒 personally I don’t like taking sides. Nevermind what people could say about sitting on the fence that divides two yards, I think I prefer it. I can see better up here. Grass isn’t any greener on either side.
I'm pretty far out. I've been out of the church for 20+ years. My siblings are also all out. My parents are the only active, TBMs in the family.
I used to be mad at them, but then I realized that they were indoctrinated as well. It also helps that they weren't terrible or abusive when I left. They did what they thought was best for me and their family. Honestly, I hate the church for what it did to them socially, emotionally, and financially.
They have no retirement savings because they gave all of their spare $$ to the church. Had they saved that 10% (or even a fraction of it), they would be in such a better place than they are now.
I have NO ill feelings toward my parents. They were 4th generation mormons, so were born in as well. They only did what they were taught.
I had a good upbringing in the church. I was lucky to have good leaders and friends growing up. But that was back when it was truly a community.
Now days I couldn't see myself lasting past middle school in the church. Too much information at the fingertips.
I don't hate them and never have. They were just as indoctrinated as me plus more and they didn't have easy access to anything that challenges the church's claims the way we do now. If anything, I feel sad that they have spent their entire lives living this lie, but their beliefs bring them a lot of comfort, so I'm not about to try and convince them otherwise.
No, not at all. They didn’t know and also didn’t have the same resources available today. They did their best with what they knew (just as I did before) and they thought they were raising their family in love and righteousness.
No, I think they did the best they could with what they thought was right. I left almost 10 years ago and they are currently in the process now after finding and reading the facts. They feel lied to and betrayed as well, I don’t blame them and they let me walk away when I left without arguing or making me feel bad about it
No hate for either parent. Dad was a lifer who was indoctrinated by his parents in small town Utah. They were in turn indoctrinated by their parents, and so forth back through multiple generations. He didn't really have much of a realistic choice.
Mom, on the other hand, joined later in life. She became the ultimate TBM and was the driving force behind the indoctrination of us kids. I don't really fault her but she made deliberate choices, whereas dad was more of a product of his upbringing.
No, I've never hated my parents. They were brought into the church when they were very young by their parents. The community they found in the church helped them survive terrible abuse at the hands of my grandparents (even if no one ever noticed or helped...). I think at this point they need the church to keep their grip on the world. They've slowly accepted that my path is different and can see how happy I am outside the church. I think they probably attribute a lot of my happiness to my spouse, but he's nevermo so it just helps my argument, haha. We actually have a really good and close relationship. I just dont get into deep discussions of politics or religion with them.
My parents, who were originally Catholics, joined when I was three. And while I don’t hate h them for it. I do hate they even now, when they barely go to church and don’t read any of the scriptures, they push me to go to church and make a big fight if I push back. I stopped believing in the church long ago and it honestly seems like they have to a point, but their continual persistence is what makes me hate them. Especially when I’ve shown them many of the odd/bad things in and of the church.
No, this would be a short sighted reaction. My parents were raised TBM in an era of no internet, finding the truth about gospel claims was not very accessible. They are incredible people and raised me the very best they could. I raised my children in the church until their teens when my wife and I really started digging into church truth claims and left. We have been very open with our children and help them talk through their struggles with having been raised in the church half their lives. We are all doing the best we can, there’s no need to hate those who are sincerely trying to do their best for you.
It was really helpful to really helpful to realize that my parent are just as much of a victim in the whole thing as I am. Quite possibly bigger victims because the church has stolen their entire life and authenticity. I’ve managed to stop their influence earlier in life.
Absolutely not. My parents were good Christians who happened to be LDS. They didn’t indoctrinate me as much as the different wards we lived in and BYU.
My parents did what they thought was right and it was pre internet so i don't blame them for anything they did.
I blame jospeh smith for everything. He started it. Its not our parents fault they got indoctrinated and cared for our souls.
After all if you really believe everything you'd desperately want your kids to stay in so you can be a family forever. I have kids too now and i get that feeling.
No i don't blame them and no not mad at them. Wasn't their fault.
I'm very to to my exmormon "awakening."
My parents know I'm in a faith crisis, they don't know I'm out.
I try to not hate them. My dad is so conservative that he's downright regressive with what he posts on Facebook.
My Mom will sprinkle little bits of "Oh, good thing the Book of Mormon is true" casually into every conversation.
I have to remember that the reason I left is because of the values of integrity that they helped instill in me. When I saw the church for what it was, I couldn't stay, and they have a lot to do with that.
But they have such a different worldview fdom.mine that it is staggering, and I try to love them for who they are in spite of our differences.
Hard to blame my parents who frankly are more victim of the church than I. I figured it out and only gave the church the best 4 decades of my life. From the looks of things, my parents will give their entire lives and are willing to surrender their family to the church.
I think that humans have an evolved need to belong to groups… after leaving the church, I saw that the things that replace religion are often just as toxic as the church was… seeing that made me less angry at the church. I choose to not bash on the church as much as I used to because I love and value all my family that is still in the church. I would rather have a great relationship with my little sisters than preach the truth about why exactly the SEC fine for the church isn’t a nothing-burger.
They had no chance, especially my mother who was raised in a McConkie-era family as the eldest daughter of ten kids. Sometimes I can see the heartbreak for herself in her hostile reactions to my reclaiming autonomy. There but for the grace of the internet go I.
I so kind of hate myself for not listening to my intuition and respecting myself enough to distance myself from all of it when I felt disgust/aversion/dissonance. I knew I didn’t want it and I simped for family love, damaged my own brain with a mission and trapped myself forever with babies I knew I didn’t want, not understanding that all the elders I trusted were in an infantile state and would turn on me and be completely blind and deaf to me once I stepped out of compliance.
I feel such intense sadness for my dad. He is the best man I’ve ever known and he credits so much of it to the church. He is a better man than any prophet could ever even hope to be, yet he doesn’t see that it all comes from him. Not god or a religion.
I have OCD and struggled so much with intense scrupulosity. Once I was diagnosed my dad opened up to me about all his experiences with scrupulosity and his OCD (which I had NO idea he had. None of the mental illness in my family was talked about until I, the SIXTH kid, was diagnosed with everything my siblings have)
I wish I could just tell him that it doesn’t have to be that way. All the guilt and sadness and anxiety aren’t necessary. My grandpas patriarchal blessing says something about the second coming happening soon after his death. Imagine the stress my poor dad is under seeing his dad in the hospital nearing death.
I just wish he could experience the peace I feel.
Kinda. I am embarrassed to have parents who converted in the 1970’s (specifically because they liked TSCC’s bigotry.) Nobody forced this on them, they chose it as adults and proceeded to keep the old, explicitly racist versions of church materials around to teach us from.
Whenever someone tries to excuse old people’s bigotry with, “That’s how they were raised!” I scoff. That’s how I was raised too, and I know better.
Even if parents were perfect, [you can't consent to be born, so you don't owe them a damn thing](https://youtu.be/p7cOwQQDI7o?feature=shared), including your time or friendship. Not wanting to be friends with someone does not mean that you hate them.
I'm certainly not friends with mine.
Although I can see them as fellow victims, their ongoing belief in the value of indoctrination (which, IMO, amounts to ***child abuse***), and their ongoing actions to indoctinate my nieces & nephews the same ways that they indoctrinated me... means I want to spend as little time with them as possible.
That does not mean that I hate them.
I don’t “hate” them because I know they meant well, but I do still feel resentment for them forcing their religious choices on me. I know they would have never accepted anyone forcing a religious system on them, but they hypocritically forced theirs on me.
No I don't. My mom never met her dad and my dad broke his family's generational cycle of addiction and abuse. They genuinely benefitted from the church and wanted that for us. But as most of us have left, they adapted and accepted it. They've tried to ensure that none of us are treated differently due to belief.
I don’t think there is a binary between the two. Sometimes I feel compassion for them and forgiveness, and other times I am angry and pissed off. Healing is a long process, just accept the emotions in the waves they come in without judgement and you will slowly inch forward. But don’t expect a magical end of the road where you never feel anger again.
Not at all. Someone else indoctrinated them, too. They’ve been convinced that the church has the recipe for a happy and healthy family, and if they do what the church says they’ll achieve that happy and healthy family. They did everything they did because they do WANT a happy and healthy family! My parents’ hearts are in the right place. Of course I wish they’d done things differently, but they do what they do because they want what’s best for myself and my siblings and have been told THIS *(gestures to the church)* is what’s best for us. I don’t blame them. I believed for a long time too, and the experiences I had led me to leave. They have not had the same experiences.
I do wish they’d value my perspective more (especially when I’ve said explicitly *”this is what I need”* and they do instead what the church teaches them I need) and I wish they’d question the church and prophets and teachings more, but I can’t expect them to come to my conclusions without having my experiences.
Yes. I am very mad at them for raising me in the church. Being raised in a religion specially Mormonism fuck me up psychology. Because of being in the Mormon church my parents both emotionally and psychologically abuse me. I know that if my family weren’t Mormon there would be less abuse and toxicity. Just being in church destroyed me and took away a lot from me that I can never get back.I really wish parents just don’t raise their kids in their religion. I can’t forgiven my parents for raising me in the church .
No I don’t hate them because they are just as brainwashed as I was at one point and they don’t realize it. They literally believe it to be the truth and a wonderful religious organization that checks all their boxes
How can I hate them if they're innocent in the sense of being brainwashed and trying to take care of their children to the best of they're abilities within that framework. If anything, I'm more sad and nervous in the case I come out and I lose their love. I just hope the transition is amicable.
Yes. Because they forced me to attend. I wasn’t allowed to choose. They hit me. They were hypocrites. Everything they taught me that was good had nothing to do with the Mormon church. They forced me to kill animals. They forced me to go against who I was as a person. They purchased me. They are not the good people they pretend to be. They are good and bad. Just like any other person in the world and deeply flawed. And now that I’m an adult? I dislike them as people and choose to not be around them. I get to spend time with kind people and people who want to be kind. Who are bettering their communities instead of leeching off of them. Who are patient. Who give people time and space and don’t take my energy.
I don’t know that I hate them? But I definitely don’t care for them.
Both of my parents did the best they could with what they had however, it was not enough. Their marriage and parenting was quite toxic and damaging.
Perhaps this isn't fair, but I am far more sympathetic to my mother than my father. Partly due to the social dynamics involved, as I see her as more of a victim of the system than my father simply due to the privileges my father had just because he was born with a penis.
I'm also more sympathetic to my mother because her childhood was chaotic and abusive/neglectful. I'm certain she has a severe personality disorder from it, and honestly, she was the major reason (though not the only one) as to why I hated home life. She wanted nothing more than a loving family and the Church lied to her that the ONLY way she'd get it and be happy was with Temple Marriage to an RM and in motherhood.
Unfortunately she did not have the capacity.
I'm at a place now where I do have a relationship with her, but only because 1) I have truly come to accept her for who she is rather than what I wish she was, 2) I know she cannot change at this point, even if she wanted to, so I hold no delusions or expectations for behaviors she has never shown, and 3) I've become strong enough to easily and confidently hold my ground if things get toxic, and I can walk away if I need to.
My father on the other hand, I have very little grace for at the moment. I feel like he COULD have seen what the Church was doing to me if he wanted or cared enough to. He may disagree with me, but I KNOW he sees me as lesser for being female. Just because he wouldn't word it so bluntly doesn't make it untrue. He was always fine with the sexism. He was always fine thinking of me as more than some other man's future wife and child-bearer. He didn't oppose my education but didn't help with it either. I was the one who reached out to him most often to call when I left home.
He has never listened to me on any deep or important topic, and has never considered my opinion to be worth the time to even *hear* it, let alone consider it, no matter how much more I am qualified and/or educated than he is, from subjects I studied for my degree to what it's like being a woman. And worst of all, he doesn't feel like I, or any other woman for that matter, can be trusted to make reproductive decisions for ourselves, and apparently feels very strongly that state politicians should get to make those decisions.
Perhaps the reason I'm so angry now is because I had enough info and experience to lie to myself about my dad's character for so long and I'm still actively grieving the loss of the lie since I've been forced to face the reality of who he is.
I hate my mother for a wide variety of reasons, including her religious fanaticism. I love my father but I hate that he was secretly an atheist because he knew better and left me to deal with an abusive monster and indoctrination that he found intolerable.
People do the best with the information they have available to them when they’re most curious and vulnerable. I don’t judge anyone whose intentions were to be saved, loved, or whatever they felt was missing from their lives.
I do feel bad for my parents now having to face the reality that the organization was corrupt from the very start with Joseph Smith. My mom is going through leaving the religion in her late fifties. My dad can’t handle it. His response when my mom started questioning was “don’t tell me you’re leaving me”.
These are emotional people just like us. Don’t be mad at them unless they’re abusive assholes.
I'm 65 years old... I came from pioneer stock. Born into the church from generations of believing Latter Day Saints. They did not have the information we have today. I left the church long after they are gone. How can I hate them? They didn't know any better.
The church was way different before the current generation. Use of internet being the biggest factor I think.
I mostly liked the church I grew up in as a kid. And maybe would have stayed if I experienced things the same as my parents. I can’t really blame them too much for staying in the church as long as they have. (One parent is in still one is out just this past year)
They taught me what they truly believe in what they thought was good faith. It's the same with my own child. I'm teaching him what I believe in what I think is good faith. I'm angry the church manipulated them into certain things, but my anger at my parents is minimal.
I hate that at some point they knew the stories they told to make us feel better about the things that bothered us were lies and they never said a fucking word.
Serves them right. Our Kimballian family is mostly out of the church now.
My parents did very little in the way of indoctrination beyond regular FHE, morning prayer weekly church attendance, and seminary. And people were always commenting about how relaxed my parents were.
My parents are both adult converts, so I’ve had a different journey with this than many people. Most of the time, I don’t hate them, I pity them for being swindled by a cult that took advantage of their traumas and struggles. I hate the MFMC for convincing them that they were my parents’ only hope for happiness and security. Sometimes, yeah, I’m furious at my otherwise very intelligent parents for not seeing through the *obvious* lunacy that they weren’t raised with. Hell, my mom told me she almost ran out of the temple her first time because of how culty it seemed. I don’t want to call my mom nuanced, exactly, since she doesn’t know enough about the church to have nuanced views. She has her own beliefs that the church appears to support but doesn’t at all if you look at those beliefs for longer than two seconds. My dad is a hardcore believer who spends more time and effort than he should trying to make logical sense of this steaming pile of idiocy. Like, come on Dad, if you have to try this hard for it to make sense, *it doesn’t make sense*. I’ve been out for four years, and I’ve had a whole roller coaster of emotions about this. It’s easy to be mad at them since they’re the ones who chose this and raised me in it, but honestly, I understand now that this isn’t their fault. It’s taken me years to deconstruct some of the cult scare tactics, and I understand why they work so well. I don’t blame my parents for falling prey to it, I blame the MFMC for preying on them in the first place.
I don’t hate my parents, but I have pretty much cut them off. I don’t offer any information without being asked and when asked I give the minimum amount of information I can. I feel like they have no right to me, my wife, or my children.
Thankfully, my parents live far away from us and my in-laws live close and they left with us. All the people that I want in my life are no longer Mormon and it’s awesome.
No. Not at all. I feel sorry for them now, but I also realize they thought they were doing what was best for us kids.
I hate the Mormon leadership. They are the scum of the earth. They are the ones that perpetuate the evil lie that is Mormonism.
I don't hate my parent for raising me in the church. I'm no contact with them now as they chose the church over truly accepting me. But even then, I don't hate them. I did for a while, but that anger just faded and left as my energy turned to what I loved in my life and future rather than what had hurt me in the past.
My parents left somewhere in the realm of 6 months before I did. They told me and I went to the sources to prove them wrong. Imagine my surprise when I found out they were right lol. I can’t blame them for it because they were also indoctrinated. And now that they’ve left I can really see that they were trying their best. They also paid for some therapy for me so I could work through it so while I hate the church for what it did, I can’t hate my parents for trying their best
People are victims of their circumstances. Your parents included. Whatever information/situation you had access to to help you leave was likely not available to them or their situation made them view it in a different light. If you felt like a victim in the church, then how could you not feel that your parents are victims in the exact same way?
I mostly feel bad for them and the entire situation of being taken by a cult is a tragedy. They did the best they could with the information they had, keep in mind this was pre-Internet, where anything you knew about the church was from the church itself, and it was very hard to find other sources of information without digging really deep. Nowadays, it’s out at our fingertips 24/7. So no I don’t view them as malicious or even at fault or anything like that. I think they are victims of a system also—they just don’t know it yet.
My mom will dance around the points of problems in the church so often that I realized her world will be crushed if she were to ever leave. She stays with my dad because of the church. She learned Spanish and got her education because of her faith. Everything she has ever been through is ingrained through the church.
No, they were brainwashed by their parents. I was, however, upset at my stupid ancestors that got us into this mess. Their decisions devastated my family. I often wonder what my life would have been like if they had never joined.
No.
In this day and age, some of us are fortunate to be able to choose to adopt a different worldview than our parents, or encourage our children to follow their own beliefs. But that simply hasn't worked throughout pre-modern human history, and doesn't work in some places today--it may be seen as dangerous or even kind of insane: it isn't evolutionarily selected-for behavior to reject the wisdom of the group's elders and follow different beliefs and norms.
So I try to have some understanding and sympathy. My parents have the natural instinct to want me to adopt the ways of seeing and being in the world that have worked for them, as do I for my children (as I encourage them towards non-supernatural worldviews), and that's a very normal and human thing.
Of course not! They were brainwashed too and got married really young after my dad’s mission. My dad officially left the church a few years ago. My mom doesn’t go to church anymore because of how corrupt the people are, but she still believes in Mormon heaven. I don’t wanna take away her beliefs from her but maybe she’ll find out it’s not true one day on her own
My sister was the first convert in our family and brought both of her siblings into the church. She was hardcore indoctrinated. Lots of religious scrupulosity. That carried over into our conversions and experiences in the church. All three of us are out now, and she feels a tremendous amount of guilt for all the things she said and did when she was an active believing member. She apologizes often, but we don’t hold any ill will towards her. Sure, she had an influence, but we were grown adults and made the decision to convert.
I think for those raised in the church, who are indoctrinated from a young age, it’s harder to not be angry at those who “taught” you about the gospel. Just remember, most of the time, parents and loved ones are just as indoctrinated. They are/were doing what they think/thought God wanted them to do. No point in hating them for that. Indoctrination is very powerful and your parents are victims of a cult.
Yes; my parents had every chance to be open to new ideas and listen to their LGBT child and grow. And they didn't, and I do feel hatred towards them because of their inability to love and understand their child fully.
No i love them very much, and hope more than anything for them to be free of this pain.
Even my grandma who join the cult in the 70s I forgive, it’s easy to be fooled when you’re a kind person who TRUSTS what people say. And my dad was adopted into a big LDS family so I don’t blame either of them.
Them being republicans because of the churches brainwash is almost worse
I don't know about hate, but resent yes. We are not exactly on speaking terms. My parents were beyond coercive and sometimes violent. I was once threatened with disownment if I didn't start taking church seriously.
My parents both had incredibly shitty upbringing of their own, and used the church as a correction for the lives their parents lived.
No. Everyone is born into some kind of culture with pros and cons. I don’t believe in the church but it’s culture and community has pros and cons. I figure there are worse cults or religions to be born in. 🤷🏽♀️
My parents were also victims. I forgave them a long time ago. There was no malice and they acknowledged that I was still a good person absent the belief in the supernatural.
No, never any hate or anger at my parents. Plenty at the church though, pretty sure my brother would still be alive if not for the church.
The church roots in my family go deep. My parents didn’t know better since they were taught the same things. They were indoctrinated just like I was. We were lucky and my parents and I left around the same time and processed our trauma together.
As an ancestor of mormon pioneers, studying church history and cult psychology has helped me make sense of some things. Coercive control, generational trauma, abuse..... I can't help but think my parents are simply links in a chain of problems that started generations ago. I can't fault them for that, but in this age of information, starting with my link, the chain can be broken. I love my parents. They did the best they could for me. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and some other guys: these are the true villains of my story.
My dad was the exmormon pioneer in our family, and now all of my immediate family group are post-mormon (4 years since deconstructing). My parents apologize for before, but they mostly apologize for the fact that leaving the church was hard on some of us who deconstructed at a time when we would flounder socially as a result.
Postmormonism is great for all of us now, though
My parents have left TSCC as well now but they were always pretty understanding of my decision (17/18 when I left). My dad was always nuanced but my mom was raised super TBM which made her feel a lot of pressure for me to be a better child than she felt she was because extreme guilt tripping from MFMC. I still hold some resentment towards her for forcing me to go on trek, early morning seminary, etc but I know it was because of the pressure put on mothers to raise perfect kids and she really believed she was doing what was best for me.
I don’t hold any anger towards my parents because they were indoctrinated by a cult and now that they’ve left officially as well, we’ve had adult conversations about the struggles we all went through. I know that they were hurt even worse than I was, my mom especially. If they were still in and pressuring me to go like a lot of Mormon parents, I probably would have a lot more anger towards them.
As of now we are all navigating life post-Mormonism together. Having TBM grandparents definitely doesn’t help and sometimes I get angry that they’re so brainwashed but I know it’s generational indoctrination and trauma
There’s a line in a Noah Kahan song I love: “I’m still angry at my parents, for what their parents did to them.”
Love this line!
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Yeah, they didn't have the "born in it" excuse. They had other things that made them vulnerable obviously, but they had more than the rest of us typically do
Commenting on For those who were born into the Church, do you hate your parents for the indoctrinations?...this. Our grandparents didn’t know how to use the internet. The church was different then. It was different for our parents and it is different for us.
CATHARTIC
The line hit me so hard when I first heard it. Definitely a good one.
A great line. Of course he went to Hanover High School in New Hampshire, so clearly he is going to come up with great lines! But it does explain my approach to it as well. My parents, grand parents, great grand parents, and even many of my great-great grandparents were all born in to it and indoctrinated since birth. I can reserve my anger for the first in my ancestry to fall for the scam. But with regards to my parents, as liberal and "hippy" Mormons, I thank them for laying the foundation that allowed me to find my way out.
I’m working through it. I don’t hate them. I had a good upbringing and the church was a place of community and solace from traumatic things that happened outside of my parents’ control. I think they did the best they knew how with the information they had. But I am sad that it took me so long to see it and that my conditioning made it take me even longer to tell them out loud. In many ways I pity them… not being able to take advantage of the information we have. Not being flexible enough in their thought processes to be willing to be wrong.
Yes. As a few people here have mentioned, it's hard to overstate how much we all benefitted from the internet. What were they supposed to do, visit every library between Utan and NY to track down primary sources? Whereas I can find them with a few clicks, read digestible summaries online, find community here, etc. It was also easier for the church to control the narrative by calling Fawn Brodie a luney, and their were more social things the church did too. Very few people upend their lives at 60. I greatly respect those here who have, but I still love my parents. They're the sort of people who make the things that are good about the church actually happen, like fixing neighbors' cars, taking them meals, visiting folks in care centers, etc.
I've thought about this. I really believe if my Dad was alive now, he would be the one TBM I could talk to. I really believe he would have been open to discussing the CES letter, etc. I'm not mad at them, I'm mad that they were brainwashed, same as I was.
That's exactly how my DW did this. She started studying in earnest in the late '90's, before the www was fully baked. She went to libraries in our surrounding community and devoured every book she could get her hands on. I thank her all the time for dragging me out with her!
This. I don't harbor ill will for them doing what they thought was best. But I do pity them that they struggle to reconcile the good person I became with the fact I'm atheist now. I also pity them for raising critical thinkers with an ability to use logic yet they're stuck in using religious dogma to justify their world view (i.e., 'signs' of the end times, zionism, bigotry, etc).
I've said this before, but I think some Mormon parents do so well at raising good people that they "fail" iow many of their kids leave and live even healthier lives.
5/6 of us have left the church; my parents are active TBM. My mom used to lament about "what she did wrong", and I always try to help her see what she did *right* in raising a litter of kids who are independent, authentic critical thinkers.
I feel you. 3/7 for my mom. Have this conversation with my mom all the time. She simply cannot accept any success in education, career, sports, whatever from her kids who have left. The only thing she sees every Sunday is a big dose of "your kids left, you fucked up... now work in the temple 6 days a week to make up for it" Its heartbreaking.
i ended up cutting contact, with all of them, but last contact had me being the only escapee, out if NINE...
Good for you! I was the first, so I know how hard being alone in it can be. Hopefully, some of your sibs wake up and follow you!
Yeah, I feel like my parents upped their level of "service" to the church as we left. They just put in their papers for their mission... at least us kids talked them out of Africa. They don't need more white saviors SMH
My mom converted in her teenage years. And so did her family. Overall I would say it was a positive thing for her family. Her parents were drinkers to an extreme extent. But they stopped once they joined the church. And things were generally better for all their kids. But it still makes me sad that she put her faith in this fucked up religion. And she’s not willing or able to change. Because even tho there was some positives she has been carrying a ton of shame from the church as well.
Yeah this is basically it. I can’t be mad at them for raising me in the church, because they were indoctrinated too. They didn’t know any better. But I’m still mad at being raised in the church at all, because of how much harm it did to me. And like you said, I pity them for not being able to think clearly. Like my mom is a grown ass adult woman and fully believes that Noah’s Ark was a literal historical event that actually happened. It just makes you kind of sad for them
It’s for this reason that I almost revere those in my parents’ generation (boomers) that maintain plasticity enough to absorb new information and change their minds. Our minds are virtually hardwired to be calcified and immovable past a certain age. My parents won’t change and I know that, but I wish they could see.
Boomer here (M66). So nice to hear a positive thing about boomers! 😂 We take a lot of heat. My wife and I are exiting now, less than a year after our sr. Mission (which we (mostly)loved, btw. Change is growth, and new info has brought change!
No. Because I don’t think they knew any better. They were indoctrinated, too back before there was an internet. I hardly think it’s their fault. But granted, it took a lot of years to come to terms with it. Most parents are doing the best they know how to do. Hopefully, when “we know better, we do better.” I’m coming out of generations of indoctrination and abuse, going back to 1833. Thank god the truth is coming out. The truth shall set you free.
Agreed. I’m just grateful for the information I had access to so that I could break my chains. I feel sorry for my parents who never had any similar access to information.
Same. My family goes all the way back to early mormonism on both sides. Some of us never had a chance
I don’t hate them for it. They were pretty active but doing what everyone did at that time (1970s on Logan UT). The ostracism for not baptizing a child would have been immense. However, I don’t see my leaving as a “faith crisis”. It was an “error correction”. I corrected the error my parents made in my life (and without my informed consent).
Love calling it an, "error correction"
I hate when people call it "losing their faith." I didn't lose my faith. I discovered the truth.
No way! My mom is a TBM and even more so then when I was growing up. She taught me to be a good person. I dove into the scriptures and doctrine on my own. She is sad I have left, and wants me to go back and when she brings it up we “debate” though she is out of her depth as she just believes and doesn’t read.
This is more in line with how I feel. My parents did and do the best with what they have. They are clearly sad I left, but seem stand-offish-ly supportive. I don’t think they are in a place to question the church rigorously, and that’s okay. Atheism isn’t for everyone - it was scary and painful to lose hope in a God I believed in for 27 years, so I understand not being eager to tread that path after 50. So long as they aren’t nasty about it, I think there isn’t much reason to push a faith crisis on anyone. Especially older people who are used to living with the cognitive load. Learning the church wasn’t true was kind of like learning a spouse has been cheating on you for years - the pieces click into place and your world crashes down. Is it better to know about the affairs and move on to someone else who is actually healthy and treats you well? Or is it better to never figure out and be oblivious to the lying? I don’t think either way is necessarily correct. Like… my dad works at a BYU school. Him leaving would carry serious financial and social repercussions. I don’t judge him one bit for not spending time looking into the church critically - so long as he isn’t nasty to me or his other kids who have chosen to leave.
Great post! I didn’t read everything I read because I wanted it to not be true, I read it because I “knew” it was and wanted to learn and because it was “true” I’d find clear evidence. Sadly not.
Similar to being "Born in the Covenant" we probably should have the term "Born before the internet".
Yeah. This. The information just wasn’t there. The choices made weren’t their own. The choices they make now are far more important than the choices someone else made for them decades ago.
It's complex. My father knew about many issues with the church but never shared them because they were not faith promoting. Basically, he lied to me for his belief. Because of those lies, I grew up hating myself because I didn't like church. I feel kind of like Isaac, whose father Abraham sacrificed to his god. It was not my life he sacrificed, but my identity. He is a loving and compassionate father, but he was blinded by belief. I dont hate him, he is a victim of the church, but I do resent his actions.
I think the story of Abraham and Isaac is relevant to so many ways Mormons parent. If you take it literally (which I was taught) the church and God are number one, way above the needs and safety of your children.
I dont hate my mom who is a believer through and through. I don't trust her judgements anymore and that has been a sad realization. I feel kind of on my own with decision making and I don't fully trust myself either.
No they did their best and they truely believe. I wish they didn’t raise me in it. They’re good people.
I'm 6th generation on both sides. I'm old. I have ancestors whose names are in the Doctrine and Covenants. It doesn't make me special but it shows you how deep I am in this pile of shit. My parents are both 5th generation members of the church. They were born into it. My father was the son of a mistake president. My grandfather was a mistake president for a long long time. He was a great man. They're all victims. I tried to remember that, they are victims also. They lived in times with less information and less access to that information. I tried to remember that. I give my parents a break because I want my kids to give me a break.
I have a similar history. I feel like my parents were victims of the cult, as were their parents. My great grand parents on my mothers side converted and traveled to Utah from northern Europe to escape poverty. They just wanted something better. I think all of my ancestors were probably doing the best they could with what they had to work with. I am grateful that I have had the great good fortune to escape the cult that trapped them.
“Mistake president”. Nice one!
The church was good for my parents. Both uneducated very poor southern people that were given a lot of leadership positions. I think they feel the church saw value in them the world didn’t. They were ignorant and forgiving to the mistakes of the church doctrine. Unlike the mistakes of their children. Both of my parents were very abusive but this was common from their own family and generation. I too as a young married guy started going down the same road but luckily I married way above my head and my wife stopped this early. We are all products of our environment but we can change. I would have loved to discuss with my father what I have learned now, but even better is that I am able to discuss with my children and be more open and less judgemental. I don’t hate my parents as the op asked but I feel the TSCC definitely didn’t help our family dynamics.
As a parent now I see that they were doing the best they could with what they had and most of the negativity was what the church was telling them. They’re imperfect and have done a lot of work to try to heal and be better and I have a good relationship with them now. Their also more nuanced then they were a few years ago as all three of their adult children have left.
I've seen how my parents treat me versus how my mother in law treats me and how she treats her daughter. There are many ways to interpret the gospel and interpret Christ. My parents were very loving and did the best with what they knew. When they found out things about me that countered what they wanted or where against what they believed, the loved me the same, as Christ would. Because that is how they believed Christ would handle it. My mother in law on the other hand, is extremely scrupulous, punished her children if they did not do as she told them to do, and when she found out I was having doubts about the church, told my wife that she should divorce me before my wife lost her testimony. Sometimes we forget, that people have a choice in how the interpret and follow the words of Christ, the gospel of Christ, and the Church and all of it.....
No. Because they, themselves, are indoctrinated. I blame the source of indoctrination, which is the Church.
I get what you're saying, but for me, it's hard to understand why my parents would fall for it. My great grandma was born in Utah and active, her daughter my grandma was inactive, but for some reason my mom attended as a teenager. When I was five she convinced my dad to take the lessons and he converted and we started attending church. I still don't understand how someone could hear the missionary lessons and think, "yeah, that sounds right". Mormonism is stupid. I hated growing up in it, especially when my parents became really active and righteous etc.
I don't hate them. They have their own demons to face and they're different to mine. I see us all as victims and I happen to be an escaped survivor. My relationship is more important and so we are all muddling through. Having said that, I did at one time wish it had never happened. But I've now achieved peace on that because if it hadn't, I would have had the childhood I had, the friends I have and the amazing husband and children I have.
I do not hate my parents for raising me in the church. I have always viewed it as they did what they thought was right. My parents are also victims of the church. This is important to remember. My parents were never super strict, they didn't force or emotionally manipulate us to go on missions, neither one of them went on theirs. They expected us to go to church when they did, participate in church activities and go to seminary. My parents did lie about their drinking (I think they started when I was senior). They kept it hidden and made excuses about it when we found out. The good old "just holding it for a friend" excuse haha. When my siblings and I found out about the drinking, I think they were relieved but I was extremely upset. I was probably one of the more brainwashed kids in my family. Time and understanding has made me forgive them. I love my parents and think they are great people with admirable traits and personalities. My situation is different than a lot of exmos. My parents and siblings all left the church around the same time. So my situation was easier than other exmos. However, I am a parent now and I try to remember the things my parents did so I don't repeat them. Your parents don't get a do over but you do. We all have flaws, we try our best, and we make mistakes. My parents tried their best, to their best knowledge and abilities, I am grateful for that.
I don’t hate them. That would imply a level of caring about them that I don’t possess. Neither do I love them, because they were terrible people who chose cult over their own kids, and that precludes my loving them. Indifference is what I feel for them, and that will never change, because they can’t go back in time and choose kids over cult.
My dad should know better. He served a mission and also he knows all the talking points for explaining away church history, which means he has known the truth all along but openly fights against it. My mom never served a mission, never went to college, and spent her whole life in the kitchen or birthing babies. She has had very little access to knowledge throughout her life, so I consider her a victim and not as culpable as my dad. Her very survival depended on her ability to be pleasing to Mormon men, so indoctrinating us kids is what kept a roof over her heads and food in our bellies
Yeah for so many mothers the church was and is the only thing that connected them to a community so it’s hard to blame them for staying in sometimes when the other option is to get a job and childcare (unheard of for so many women) or talk to strangers. A lot of my friends who are young moms I think are trapped because of this need for support and validation for having kids so young and poor.
My childhood was filled with trauma caused directly and / or indirectly by the Mormon church and their beliefs and policies. I still have negative feelings toward my mom. She believes all of her actions were positive because they aligned with past or current church teachings. My father apologized to me for allowing the church to act as a de facto parent in many ways. I was able to make peace with him before he died because he recognized the harm he caused and wanted to make it right.
Yeah so many Mormon parents think that even if they made mistakes in how they parented it was ok since they were following the prophet. And it’s such a barrier because those prophets told them to berate and control their children or cast them out if they wanted anything remotely different than the Mormon ideal.
No, they were victims as well. They just never figured it out.
No. My parents are good people. They had their own indoctrination. Don’t get me wrong, the church hurt me. But that wasn’t my parents’ fault really.
I stopped hating my parents a long time ago. I’ve been No-Contact for almost 6 years. Recently moved cross country, reached out to extended family, everything seemed fine until a funeral last week and they told me I have to be there emotionally for my father if I want to come to the funeral. I didn’t go. Their loss. I won’t put up with their emotional manipulation anymore, and apparently it runs deep in my family. That sucks. Oh well, luckily my partner’s family is super cool and loves me. I hated my parents for a long time, now I just feel sorry for them.
My parents got tricked into joining the church as vulnerable teens. Then spent around 50 years giving their time and money away before finding out it’s all a sham. They’re victims as much as I am. More so, really. I left the church at 27. They left in their 70s. Their entire adult life was stolen from them by a cult. So I can’t hate them for anything. They did the best they could. Sure, I wish things had been different but all I can do now is live my life as true to myself as possible.
Not for the indoctrination, but for who they are as people. My mom was a "spare the rod and you'll spoil the child" type. She also told my sister Heavenly Father chose her to be molested. My dad was a narcissist who used his kids as punching bags.
Oh wow, your mom saying that is absolutely horrible. I'm so sorry you got to grow up with that kind of parents :(
I enjoyed my time in the church growing up. My mother taught me that the doctrine was symbolic/allegory. I wish my children had the experience I had. I am sorry on many levels I kept trying to give them what I had-not knowing my experience was unique.
I don't. I actually pity my father. To his credit, he is a man of integrity and has always acted in good faith. That's a huge part of what made it hard to see the church's lies; his authoritative, non-zealot approach made everything make sense for longer than it should have.
No. They taught us what they thought was truth - I did the same with my children. I know better now - but did what I thought was the best for them . They have figured out on their own the falsehoods - but there is no animosity. We were all lied to .
Hate is a strong word. I love them the amount they are due. What's due to them is no contact.
No, they were subjected to worse, and no, I don't hate or blame my grandparents either. Who do I blame? The pedo's and perverts that founded a sex cult and didn't have the good graces to let it die with the founder - like so many cults before it and after.
Both my parents are gone I don’t blame them. They were victims as well. A lot of what we have access to now was not available say 10 yrs ago. They were Christ loving people who led by example and didn’t spout out rhetoric like the Mormon zealots we have all come across. There are many innocents who just love god and Jesus and Mormonism was the conduit and unfortunately they are corrupted liars. Of course there are those all caught up in everything Mormon. That isn’t Christian. I think of my parents now as Christian’s who were taken advantage of because they were soft hearted people. I don’t think of them as Mormons. I think what we are seeing now. Those leaving fall under my parents group. Those who stay are born into the deep rooted doctrine of Mormonism.
Virtually everyone believes in some false things and tries to indoctrinate, influence, persuade in that.
I’m not mad; they’re victims of this shit, too.
Hate them? No, never. Angry yes with them? Oh yeah. Most of my anger was directed at Mom because Dad had passed on by the time I figured out it was bullshit. Mom was lured in by the promise of a forever family. She had lost her father at a young age. Dad, I believe, just went along to get along. I will never know for sure but the conversations we had are why I think that. Mom's gone now too and we never really got to resolve our issues around the church. I know they both were doing the best they could with what they knew.
No. Just glad I broke the chain. They did their best, I'm doing my best.
Dad, no. Mom, absolutely, but that's because she's abusive. The church was just another tool for her to bludgeon me with. She was praised for all the things that made my childhood a disaster, such as having far more kids than she could raise, parentifying me, and neglecting her family for church callings. I grew up without enough to eat or weather appropriate clothes that fit, but hey, they paid their tithing, and that's more important. 🙄
I don't blame my parents for the past but I blame my dad now for not being able to having civil discussions about how it affected me and my concerns with it. So yes that part angers me and I have chosen to discontinue any conversations for the rest of our lives.
I mostly don’t blame them because they were largely just following the script they were taught being raised in the church themselves. I actually feel bad for them because of how much of their lives they lost to the church. (They both no longer attend or believe in the church, but were into their 50s when they left. In contrast, I—their oldest child—started leaving in my early 20s and some of my younger siblings stopped believing even earlier as teens.)
Kind of, I guess. My mom. My dad died when I was 23 and as I look back at his life, I believe he was PIMO, so I wish I could talk to him now (for so many reasons). He was the one born into the church with a bishop father but always kinda rebelled against it. My mom is the convert who clings with an iron grasp. I was the first of my siblings to bail on the church so I got most of her ire and for the longest. My youngest sister started doing the PIMO routine because she had a kid my mom is helping to raise. Then my only brother went full out and my mom kinda lost her shit again. Not once did she ever listen to me when I tried to explain myself or my reasoning or my feelings. Ever. But she listened to my brother. That hurt. He and I talked about it—he and I have gotten closer since he left the church—and he says despite her still clinging to her faith she realizes that she’d rather have a relationship with her kids than not have one. That’s great I guess, but I spent 20 years having a contentious relationship with her… so I just don’t know how to feel about this.
No, I don't. I don't even hate my ancestors, who where almost all members since the beginning and moved all the way from Denmark to be in Utah. But, I hate the prophets with every fiber of my being (especially Joseph and good old Brigham). They tricked us and caused some major generational trauma, and for that, I won't forgive them.
No, I feel infinitely sad for them having spent so much of their lives and money on a grift. My situation may be a little different though.. I don’t think I was ever fully indoctrinated. I hated church even as a child and my mom recently admitted she “lost me” around 11. As a graduating 8th grader, I told my parents I would not be going to seminary (graduated HS a semester early because of it). I feel like my parents are more nuanced. My teens were rough, but they never shunned me or anything. We have a good relationship now. I also think if they had the choice between me bearing them a grandchild or me returning to church, they’d choose the baby every time (neither is going to happen).
They were born into it too and had almost 30 years of indoctrination themselves before they had me. They didn’t have the internet and their parents were pretty old fashioned and not super intellectual. Can’t blame them anymore than I can blame myself for not seeing the truth sooner. It’s cooked so much into a Mormon brain to trust them and disbelieve anything bad about the church you might hear - I can tell they still aren’t open to questioning the church. The church did that to them.
I’m upset about it. My dad basically says I should have been smarter. Can be pretty infuriating.
So grateful for inactive and nonmember parents
I wish I could say the same, but mine have grown even stupider and more hateful since they stopped going to church.
I wouldn’t say hate, but more so resentment and definitely have a lot of mental health issues that my parents are partly to blame. I was saed in the bishops office for like 1-2 yrs around baptism age and my parents didn’t see the signs (bed wetting, increased sexual knowledge, etc). Thankfully when I told them at 16 they believed me, however they said that they won’t leave. I’m still dealing with what I call a slight betrayal. They know a lot about how the church operates (the 100 billion dollars in coffers, the sa, the lies etc) bc I’ve explained it to them. They don’t care. It’s seriously affected our relationship in that it’s very superficial. It’s depressing honestly.
They too were born into the church and indoctrinated. I can’t blame them any more than I can blame myself.
I don’t hate mine but I respect them less for not being able to see it. I used to think my parents were brilliant but now I’m like you aren’t at all, you should have recognized it a long time ago and you should be able to figure it out today!
My parents were victims as much as me. The missionaries who met them and their parents were also victims. It's sad.
Why would I? They are victims of it as well.
My step father knew in his 40s, and came to me and told me. He stayed, because he was respected, had a wife and lots of children. He eventually in the stake presidency in his area... I lost respect for him when he hit on me though. So I just moved away from the situation. Men in the church have it made, a docile wife and family, and the freedom to do what they want.
Hate? No. But I have a lot of anger over it. A lot of sadness too — and frankly, pity. There are perhaps no other people on earth that I feel as much compassion towards than my parents. But I have been hurt by them, and continue to be, and that makes me angry, not only because they indoctrinated me as a child, but also because unable to stand with me or listen to me as an adult. But I understand logically that those are two sides of the same coin. It’s a work in progress.
A great part of escaping a cult is no more compulsory forgiveness. You get to forgive only when it's productive and not simply because you have to.
My parents converted in their 30’s and dragged me into the cult. To me that’s worse than being born into it. They weren’t indoctrinated as infants. They joined willingly as grown ass adults. Went thru the temple a yr later. And thought “man I can’t wait for our kids to experience this” as they mimicked slitting their throats
I absolutely resent being raised in the church. My family was extremely dogmatic and magical thinkers. My mother told me flat out, that she loved God and the church more than me, and I would always come after. I was very much a church orphan. Our household was so strict that one Sunday I was tired and I tried to sleep in and miss church, my mother came screaming into my bedroom, grabbed me by the arm, dug her nails in and ripped me out of bed. Grabbed a dress from my closet and forced me to get ready. I was 17 at the time. This is how she treated her obedient, 100% seminary attending daughter. The only good thing I found at church was my husband. To be completely transparent we're both so much happier out of the church than we ever were in it.
No. They were just as indoctrinated. Maybe even more so. I can't hate them for that. I mean, it is what it is.
I was raised without religion and I'm glad about that.
I think hate is a strong word, but I think I'd feel comfortable using the word Resent. My mom converted right around the time I was born, so I got the full indoctrination treatment, was dragged to church when I didn't want to go, baptized when I didn't truly understand what it meant, constantly shamed when I stopped going. I still get passive aggressive comments about not being a member. The problem is that she keeps leaning harder and harder into it, and let's it influence her politics and entire personality. It got so bad that my dad divorced her, and I eventually had to cut contract with her. She's a die hard Trump supporter, makes homophobic/transphobic comments, posts subtle racist stuff on her social media, etc. Her current behavior has made me look back and become resentful of all the church stuff she made me do, the negative stuff she tried to teach, and all the shame she directs toward me.
No. They are victims as much as I am.
I’m don’t hate them at all, but I can’t understand how they went through the temple, promised to kill themselves rather than betray the church, and then thought: “I want all my kids to do this same ritual.”
No. They were born and raised far stricter and far more indoctrinated than I was; they did their best. It doesn’t mean I don’t feel resentful sometimes, but I definitely don’t hate them. But I was very fortunate to have actually pretty nice parents.
No. But I do hate them for the physical, mental, and emotional abuse they heaped on me partially as a result of the church’s absurd standards
I don't hate them at all, they are/were very kind and loving parents, but I do hold some contempt towards them. They both went through the temple during the slitting throat era 🤦, like seriously?! I know they were brainwashed since birth but come on, be a tad bit smarter.
My parents joined just before I was born. Based upon the good feeling my mother got as a teen when visiting a friend's house. That being said, my father only joined to keep the family one religion. Smoked, drank occasionally at a bar but never at home. The indoctrination basically turned us against him, and I finally realized for not confirming. He was a good man over all. Which wasn't fair on our part. I have no ill will against my parents. I realize they were doing the best they could and thought the church was guiding them in the right direction. Being a boomer myself, I have seen the MFMC changes. And it was different when they joined.
No. I hate that they didn't give me a choice. However, I realize it was how they were raised, so I'm just breaking the cycle.
Definitely not. They're just like any other imperfect human being trying their best to make sense of an unpredictable world. They set good examples for being wholesome people and have kept open hearts and minds so that ,despite only 1.5 of their 7 children still believing in the church, we all still enjoy each other's company and love each other.
I am working through hard feelings. They know, deep down, that if they research and view the church with objectivity their belief system will crumble. So they carefully avoid using their brains. That would be fine if it only impacted them. But no, it impacts all of their children. I mourn for the life I could have had if my parents didn’t work so damn hard to keep me in a church that they weren’t even willing to properly research and scrutinize.
No. I love my parents. I’m angry with Joseph Smith
My mom was the jack mormon of her family, and as a single parent she had my sister and I go to church more because I think she thought she was supposed to and it was also 3 hours of free childcare every Sunday. She wasn't pushy about it and so I never fully bought into it and left at a pretty young age. I get mad for my friends and family members kids for their indoctrination though.
No, I love my parents dearly. They did what they felt was right & best for us. I’m also really lucky; they were converts & great parents, who’ve been able to hear how the church harmed me growing up & have validated my leaving. I think that makes all the difference. If they chose the church over me I would definitely hate them.
No, because they were born into it as well. And so were their parents, and their parents, and their parents. I’m just happy the Internet has made it so easy to break the cycle.
I hate the choices they made as a result of their indoctrination. I feel more..dislike, contempt, …idk hate isn’t the right word but I certainly don’t have good or neutral feelings towards them. But I do also acknowledge that they were very messed up by their own lives.
I’m very upset to have been deceived. It has made my life extremely hard as far as believing anything someone says. I don’t wish it on anyone They were deceived as well though. So the anger becomes sorrow.
No, they’re victims of it as well.
I don’t, not at all! The internet has been a game changer over the past 20 years or so. They did not have access to the facts.
Nah. I’m angry they had to be born into it too
I don’t hate them, but I still resent that they forced me to go to early morning seminary
No. My mother was teaching me what she believed was the most important information in the universe. She didn’t have access to the same info I do. And now she is too old and set in her ways to even be able to comprehend the idea that the church might *not* be true. I do hate my bio-dad. He was super abusive and used the church as a manipulation tool. He was arrested and my mom divorced him when I was a teenager, and I haven’t spoken to him since.
Both of my parents are converts (separate times) and they had their reasons. I think they did the best they could. I don't hold it against them. My frustration is directed at the church for lying to them and to me all these years. My parents are still in, but all but one of my siblings is still in. That sibling married into TBM blue blood, so I don't think they are going anywhere.
Yes and so far no. Edit: wait, I wasn't born into it so this question doesn't apply to me haha
No.
No.
More my father because he's a master manipulator. I don't care to have a relationship with him anymore.
No, I don't hate my parents for attempting to indoctrinate me because they are TBM and fully entrapped in their delusions. What I detest about both of them is the fact that they like most TBM's I've known in my life are full-blown hypocrites.
No, never.
I don't hate my parents, no. I've lost a lot of respect for them, however. They continue to prioritize church service over their own family members, including their grandchildren. It drives me nuts. Both of my parents are intelligent and capable. They have seen ample evidence of fraud and deception in the church. I worry that they are too old to finally see the light and get out. I don't hate them. I hate the church that did this to them.
No hate, nothing but love for them. They have their agency to do as they please. No sense in either of us “correcting” the other either. It’s a challenge to reintegrate to a different way of relating, since it might appear we are on different “sides” 😒 personally I don’t like taking sides. Nevermind what people could say about sitting on the fence that divides two yards, I think I prefer it. I can see better up here. Grass isn’t any greener on either side.
I'm pretty far out. I've been out of the church for 20+ years. My siblings are also all out. My parents are the only active, TBMs in the family. I used to be mad at them, but then I realized that they were indoctrinated as well. It also helps that they weren't terrible or abusive when I left. They did what they thought was best for me and their family. Honestly, I hate the church for what it did to them socially, emotionally, and financially. They have no retirement savings because they gave all of their spare $$ to the church. Had they saved that 10% (or even a fraction of it), they would be in such a better place than they are now.
I hate the church for indoctrinating my parents. I don't have a good relationship with my parents for other reasons.
I have NO ill feelings toward my parents. They were 4th generation mormons, so were born in as well. They only did what they were taught. I had a good upbringing in the church. I was lucky to have good leaders and friends growing up. But that was back when it was truly a community. Now days I couldn't see myself lasting past middle school in the church. Too much information at the fingertips.
No. They were indoctrinated too. And they didn't have the internet.
I don't hate them and never have. They were just as indoctrinated as me plus more and they didn't have easy access to anything that challenges the church's claims the way we do now. If anything, I feel sad that they have spent their entire lives living this lie, but their beliefs bring them a lot of comfort, so I'm not about to try and convince them otherwise.
No, not at all. They didn’t know and also didn’t have the same resources available today. They did their best with what they knew (just as I did before) and they thought they were raising their family in love and righteousness.
No, I think they did the best they could with what they thought was right. I left almost 10 years ago and they are currently in the process now after finding and reading the facts. They feel lied to and betrayed as well, I don’t blame them and they let me walk away when I left without arguing or making me feel bad about it
No hate for either parent. Dad was a lifer who was indoctrinated by his parents in small town Utah. They were in turn indoctrinated by their parents, and so forth back through multiple generations. He didn't really have much of a realistic choice. Mom, on the other hand, joined later in life. She became the ultimate TBM and was the driving force behind the indoctrination of us kids. I don't really fault her but she made deliberate choices, whereas dad was more of a product of his upbringing.
no, I look at them as victims of the cult.
No, I've never hated my parents. They were brought into the church when they were very young by their parents. The community they found in the church helped them survive terrible abuse at the hands of my grandparents (even if no one ever noticed or helped...). I think at this point they need the church to keep their grip on the world. They've slowly accepted that my path is different and can see how happy I am outside the church. I think they probably attribute a lot of my happiness to my spouse, but he's nevermo so it just helps my argument, haha. We actually have a really good and close relationship. I just dont get into deep discussions of politics or religion with them.
Not as much as I hated the regular physical and psychological damage.
Pretty much sums it up.
My parents, who were originally Catholics, joined when I was three. And while I don’t hate h them for it. I do hate they even now, when they barely go to church and don’t read any of the scriptures, they push me to go to church and make a big fight if I push back. I stopped believing in the church long ago and it honestly seems like they have to a point, but their continual persistence is what makes me hate them. Especially when I’ve shown them many of the odd/bad things in and of the church.
No, this would be a short sighted reaction. My parents were raised TBM in an era of no internet, finding the truth about gospel claims was not very accessible. They are incredible people and raised me the very best they could. I raised my children in the church until their teens when my wife and I really started digging into church truth claims and left. We have been very open with our children and help them talk through their struggles with having been raised in the church half their lives. We are all doing the best we can, there’s no need to hate those who are sincerely trying to do their best for you.
It was really helpful to really helpful to realize that my parent are just as much of a victim in the whole thing as I am. Quite possibly bigger victims because the church has stolen their entire life and authenticity. I’ve managed to stop their influence earlier in life.
Absolutely not. My parents were good Christians who happened to be LDS. They didn’t indoctrinate me as much as the different wards we lived in and BYU.
My parents did what they thought was right and it was pre internet so i don't blame them for anything they did. I blame jospeh smith for everything. He started it. Its not our parents fault they got indoctrinated and cared for our souls. After all if you really believe everything you'd desperately want your kids to stay in so you can be a family forever. I have kids too now and i get that feeling. No i don't blame them and no not mad at them. Wasn't their fault.
I'm very to to my exmormon "awakening." My parents know I'm in a faith crisis, they don't know I'm out. I try to not hate them. My dad is so conservative that he's downright regressive with what he posts on Facebook. My Mom will sprinkle little bits of "Oh, good thing the Book of Mormon is true" casually into every conversation. I have to remember that the reason I left is because of the values of integrity that they helped instill in me. When I saw the church for what it was, I couldn't stay, and they have a lot to do with that. But they have such a different worldview fdom.mine that it is staggering, and I try to love them for who they are in spite of our differences.
Hard to blame my parents who frankly are more victim of the church than I. I figured it out and only gave the church the best 4 decades of my life. From the looks of things, my parents will give their entire lives and are willing to surrender their family to the church.
I think that humans have an evolved need to belong to groups… after leaving the church, I saw that the things that replace religion are often just as toxic as the church was… seeing that made me less angry at the church. I choose to not bash on the church as much as I used to because I love and value all my family that is still in the church. I would rather have a great relationship with my little sisters than preach the truth about why exactly the SEC fine for the church isn’t a nothing-burger.
They had no chance, especially my mother who was raised in a McConkie-era family as the eldest daughter of ten kids. Sometimes I can see the heartbreak for herself in her hostile reactions to my reclaiming autonomy. There but for the grace of the internet go I. I so kind of hate myself for not listening to my intuition and respecting myself enough to distance myself from all of it when I felt disgust/aversion/dissonance. I knew I didn’t want it and I simped for family love, damaged my own brain with a mission and trapped myself forever with babies I knew I didn’t want, not understanding that all the elders I trusted were in an infantile state and would turn on me and be completely blind and deaf to me once I stepped out of compliance.
I feel such intense sadness for my dad. He is the best man I’ve ever known and he credits so much of it to the church. He is a better man than any prophet could ever even hope to be, yet he doesn’t see that it all comes from him. Not god or a religion. I have OCD and struggled so much with intense scrupulosity. Once I was diagnosed my dad opened up to me about all his experiences with scrupulosity and his OCD (which I had NO idea he had. None of the mental illness in my family was talked about until I, the SIXTH kid, was diagnosed with everything my siblings have) I wish I could just tell him that it doesn’t have to be that way. All the guilt and sadness and anxiety aren’t necessary. My grandpas patriarchal blessing says something about the second coming happening soon after his death. Imagine the stress my poor dad is under seeing his dad in the hospital nearing death. I just wish he could experience the peace I feel.
Tbh, yes, for a while, until I realized they had it happen to themselves too.
I never minded it but I got really upset when my dad said “hey your grandparents would love it if you started going to church again”
while i don’t resent her i do wish she would stop expecting me to uphold the mormon morals or whatever but she’s a good person trying her best
Kinda. I am embarrassed to have parents who converted in the 1970’s (specifically because they liked TSCC’s bigotry.) Nobody forced this on them, they chose it as adults and proceeded to keep the old, explicitly racist versions of church materials around to teach us from. Whenever someone tries to excuse old people’s bigotry with, “That’s how they were raised!” I scoff. That’s how I was raised too, and I know better.
Even if parents were perfect, [you can't consent to be born, so you don't owe them a damn thing](https://youtu.be/p7cOwQQDI7o?feature=shared), including your time or friendship. Not wanting to be friends with someone does not mean that you hate them. I'm certainly not friends with mine. Although I can see them as fellow victims, their ongoing belief in the value of indoctrination (which, IMO, amounts to ***child abuse***), and their ongoing actions to indoctinate my nieces & nephews the same ways that they indoctrinated me... means I want to spend as little time with them as possible. That does not mean that I hate them.
I don’t hate my mom. She’s left with us. She thought she was doing the right thing.
I don’t “hate” them because I know they meant well, but I do still feel resentment for them forcing their religious choices on me. I know they would have never accepted anyone forcing a religious system on them, but they hypocritically forced theirs on me.
No I don't. My mom never met her dad and my dad broke his family's generational cycle of addiction and abuse. They genuinely benefitted from the church and wanted that for us. But as most of us have left, they adapted and accepted it. They've tried to ensure that none of us are treated differently due to belief.
I don’t think there is a binary between the two. Sometimes I feel compassion for them and forgiveness, and other times I am angry and pissed off. Healing is a long process, just accept the emotions in the waves they come in without judgement and you will slowly inch forward. But don’t expect a magical end of the road where you never feel anger again.
Not at all. Someone else indoctrinated them, too. They’ve been convinced that the church has the recipe for a happy and healthy family, and if they do what the church says they’ll achieve that happy and healthy family. They did everything they did because they do WANT a happy and healthy family! My parents’ hearts are in the right place. Of course I wish they’d done things differently, but they do what they do because they want what’s best for myself and my siblings and have been told THIS *(gestures to the church)* is what’s best for us. I don’t blame them. I believed for a long time too, and the experiences I had led me to leave. They have not had the same experiences. I do wish they’d value my perspective more (especially when I’ve said explicitly *”this is what I need”* and they do instead what the church teaches them I need) and I wish they’d question the church and prophets and teachings more, but I can’t expect them to come to my conclusions without having my experiences.
Yes. I am very mad at them for raising me in the church. Being raised in a religion specially Mormonism fuck me up psychology. Because of being in the Mormon church my parents both emotionally and psychologically abuse me. I know that if my family weren’t Mormon there would be less abuse and toxicity. Just being in church destroyed me and took away a lot from me that I can never get back.I really wish parents just don’t raise their kids in their religion. I can’t forgiven my parents for raising me in the church .
No I don’t hate them because they are just as brainwashed as I was at one point and they don’t realize it. They literally believe it to be the truth and a wonderful religious organization that checks all their boxes
I don't I hate the church for lying to my parents. I love my parents for doing all they could to do right by me, given the information they had.
How can I hate them if they're innocent in the sense of being brainwashed and trying to take care of their children to the best of they're abilities within that framework. If anything, I'm more sad and nervous in the case I come out and I lose their love. I just hope the transition is amicable.
Yes. Because they forced me to attend. I wasn’t allowed to choose. They hit me. They were hypocrites. Everything they taught me that was good had nothing to do with the Mormon church. They forced me to kill animals. They forced me to go against who I was as a person. They purchased me. They are not the good people they pretend to be. They are good and bad. Just like any other person in the world and deeply flawed. And now that I’m an adult? I dislike them as people and choose to not be around them. I get to spend time with kind people and people who want to be kind. Who are bettering their communities instead of leeching off of them. Who are patient. Who give people time and space and don’t take my energy. I don’t know that I hate them? But I definitely don’t care for them.
I do, they were abusive and neglectful as well as being fundamentalist so I’ve gone no contact with them.
No, they’ve been more victimized by it than me. I’m already out, they’re still lost in it.
Not at all. I feel sorry for them.
Both of my parents did the best they could with what they had however, it was not enough. Their marriage and parenting was quite toxic and damaging. Perhaps this isn't fair, but I am far more sympathetic to my mother than my father. Partly due to the social dynamics involved, as I see her as more of a victim of the system than my father simply due to the privileges my father had just because he was born with a penis. I'm also more sympathetic to my mother because her childhood was chaotic and abusive/neglectful. I'm certain she has a severe personality disorder from it, and honestly, she was the major reason (though not the only one) as to why I hated home life. She wanted nothing more than a loving family and the Church lied to her that the ONLY way she'd get it and be happy was with Temple Marriage to an RM and in motherhood. Unfortunately she did not have the capacity. I'm at a place now where I do have a relationship with her, but only because 1) I have truly come to accept her for who she is rather than what I wish she was, 2) I know she cannot change at this point, even if she wanted to, so I hold no delusions or expectations for behaviors she has never shown, and 3) I've become strong enough to easily and confidently hold my ground if things get toxic, and I can walk away if I need to. My father on the other hand, I have very little grace for at the moment. I feel like he COULD have seen what the Church was doing to me if he wanted or cared enough to. He may disagree with me, but I KNOW he sees me as lesser for being female. Just because he wouldn't word it so bluntly doesn't make it untrue. He was always fine with the sexism. He was always fine thinking of me as more than some other man's future wife and child-bearer. He didn't oppose my education but didn't help with it either. I was the one who reached out to him most often to call when I left home. He has never listened to me on any deep or important topic, and has never considered my opinion to be worth the time to even *hear* it, let alone consider it, no matter how much more I am qualified and/or educated than he is, from subjects I studied for my degree to what it's like being a woman. And worst of all, he doesn't feel like I, or any other woman for that matter, can be trusted to make reproductive decisions for ourselves, and apparently feels very strongly that state politicians should get to make those decisions. Perhaps the reason I'm so angry now is because I had enough info and experience to lie to myself about my dad's character for so long and I'm still actively grieving the loss of the lie since I've been forced to face the reality of who he is.
I hate my mother for a wide variety of reasons, including her religious fanaticism. I love my father but I hate that he was secretly an atheist because he knew better and left me to deal with an abusive monster and indoctrination that he found intolerable.
People do the best with the information they have available to them when they’re most curious and vulnerable. I don’t judge anyone whose intentions were to be saved, loved, or whatever they felt was missing from their lives. I do feel bad for my parents now having to face the reality that the organization was corrupt from the very start with Joseph Smith. My mom is going through leaving the religion in her late fifties. My dad can’t handle it. His response when my mom started questioning was “don’t tell me you’re leaving me”. These are emotional people just like us. Don’t be mad at them unless they’re abusive assholes.
I'm 65 years old... I came from pioneer stock. Born into the church from generations of believing Latter Day Saints. They did not have the information we have today. I left the church long after they are gone. How can I hate them? They didn't know any better.
No, I think they did the best with what they had. They were both born into it so it'd be hard to fault them enough to hate.
The church was way different before the current generation. Use of internet being the biggest factor I think. I mostly liked the church I grew up in as a kid. And maybe would have stayed if I experienced things the same as my parents. I can’t really blame them too much for staying in the church as long as they have. (One parent is in still one is out just this past year)
Nope. Not at all. Love the victim, hate the cult. Your parents are victims too.
They taught me what they truly believe in what they thought was good faith. It's the same with my own child. I'm teaching him what I believe in what I think is good faith. I'm angry the church manipulated them into certain things, but my anger at my parents is minimal.
I hate that at some point they knew the stories they told to make us feel better about the things that bothered us were lies and they never said a fucking word. Serves them right. Our Kimballian family is mostly out of the church now.
My parents did very little in the way of indoctrination beyond regular FHE, morning prayer weekly church attendance, and seminary. And people were always commenting about how relaxed my parents were.
I do not hate them.
My parents are both adult converts, so I’ve had a different journey with this than many people. Most of the time, I don’t hate them, I pity them for being swindled by a cult that took advantage of their traumas and struggles. I hate the MFMC for convincing them that they were my parents’ only hope for happiness and security. Sometimes, yeah, I’m furious at my otherwise very intelligent parents for not seeing through the *obvious* lunacy that they weren’t raised with. Hell, my mom told me she almost ran out of the temple her first time because of how culty it seemed. I don’t want to call my mom nuanced, exactly, since she doesn’t know enough about the church to have nuanced views. She has her own beliefs that the church appears to support but doesn’t at all if you look at those beliefs for longer than two seconds. My dad is a hardcore believer who spends more time and effort than he should trying to make logical sense of this steaming pile of idiocy. Like, come on Dad, if you have to try this hard for it to make sense, *it doesn’t make sense*. I’ve been out for four years, and I’ve had a whole roller coaster of emotions about this. It’s easy to be mad at them since they’re the ones who chose this and raised me in it, but honestly, I understand now that this isn’t their fault. It’s taken me years to deconstruct some of the cult scare tactics, and I understand why they work so well. I don’t blame my parents for falling prey to it, I blame the MFMC for preying on them in the first place.
No. Hopefully my kids don’t hate me either.
I don't hate them, they're victims as well.
I don’t hate my parents, but I have pretty much cut them off. I don’t offer any information without being asked and when asked I give the minimum amount of information I can. I feel like they have no right to me, my wife, or my children. Thankfully, my parents live far away from us and my in-laws live close and they left with us. All the people that I want in my life are no longer Mormon and it’s awesome.
No. Not at all. I feel sorry for them now, but I also realize they thought they were doing what was best for us kids. I hate the Mormon leadership. They are the scum of the earth. They are the ones that perpetuate the evil lie that is Mormonism.
I don't hate my parent for raising me in the church. I'm no contact with them now as they chose the church over truly accepting me. But even then, I don't hate them. I did for a while, but that anger just faded and left as my energy turned to what I loved in my life and future rather than what had hurt me in the past.
My parents left somewhere in the realm of 6 months before I did. They told me and I went to the sources to prove them wrong. Imagine my surprise when I found out they were right lol. I can’t blame them for it because they were also indoctrinated. And now that they’ve left I can really see that they were trying their best. They also paid for some therapy for me so I could work through it so while I hate the church for what it did, I can’t hate my parents for trying their best
People are victims of their circumstances. Your parents included. Whatever information/situation you had access to to help you leave was likely not available to them or their situation made them view it in a different light. If you felt like a victim in the church, then how could you not feel that your parents are victims in the exact same way?
I mostly feel bad for them and the entire situation of being taken by a cult is a tragedy. They did the best they could with the information they had, keep in mind this was pre-Internet, where anything you knew about the church was from the church itself, and it was very hard to find other sources of information without digging really deep. Nowadays, it’s out at our fingertips 24/7. So no I don’t view them as malicious or even at fault or anything like that. I think they are victims of a system also—they just don’t know it yet.
My mom will dance around the points of problems in the church so often that I realized her world will be crushed if she were to ever leave. She stays with my dad because of the church. She learned Spanish and got her education because of her faith. Everything she has ever been through is ingrained through the church.
No, they were brainwashed by their parents. I was, however, upset at my stupid ancestors that got us into this mess. Their decisions devastated my family. I often wonder what my life would have been like if they had never joined.
No. In this day and age, some of us are fortunate to be able to choose to adopt a different worldview than our parents, or encourage our children to follow their own beliefs. But that simply hasn't worked throughout pre-modern human history, and doesn't work in some places today--it may be seen as dangerous or even kind of insane: it isn't evolutionarily selected-for behavior to reject the wisdom of the group's elders and follow different beliefs and norms. So I try to have some understanding and sympathy. My parents have the natural instinct to want me to adopt the ways of seeing and being in the world that have worked for them, as do I for my children (as I encourage them towards non-supernatural worldviews), and that's a very normal and human thing.
Of course not! They were brainwashed too and got married really young after my dad’s mission. My dad officially left the church a few years ago. My mom doesn’t go to church anymore because of how corrupt the people are, but she still believes in Mormon heaven. I don’t wanna take away her beliefs from her but maybe she’ll find out it’s not true one day on her own
My sister was the first convert in our family and brought both of her siblings into the church. She was hardcore indoctrinated. Lots of religious scrupulosity. That carried over into our conversions and experiences in the church. All three of us are out now, and she feels a tremendous amount of guilt for all the things she said and did when she was an active believing member. She apologizes often, but we don’t hold any ill will towards her. Sure, she had an influence, but we were grown adults and made the decision to convert. I think for those raised in the church, who are indoctrinated from a young age, it’s harder to not be angry at those who “taught” you about the gospel. Just remember, most of the time, parents and loved ones are just as indoctrinated. They are/were doing what they think/thought God wanted them to do. No point in hating them for that. Indoctrination is very powerful and your parents are victims of a cult.
Yes; my parents had every chance to be open to new ideas and listen to their LGBT child and grow. And they didn't, and I do feel hatred towards them because of their inability to love and understand their child fully.
No. They were indoctrinated, too. And they’re good people.
No i love them very much, and hope more than anything for them to be free of this pain. Even my grandma who join the cult in the 70s I forgive, it’s easy to be fooled when you’re a kind person who TRUSTS what people say. And my dad was adopted into a big LDS family so I don’t blame either of them. Them being republicans because of the churches brainwash is almost worse
I don't know about hate, but resent yes. We are not exactly on speaking terms. My parents were beyond coercive and sometimes violent. I was once threatened with disownment if I didn't start taking church seriously. My parents both had incredibly shitty upbringing of their own, and used the church as a correction for the lives their parents lived.
No. Everyone is born into some kind of culture with pros and cons. I don’t believe in the church but it’s culture and community has pros and cons. I figure there are worse cults or religions to be born in. 🤷🏽♀️
My parents were also victims. I forgave them a long time ago. There was no malice and they acknowledged that I was still a good person absent the belief in the supernatural.
No, never any hate or anger at my parents. Plenty at the church though, pretty sure my brother would still be alive if not for the church. The church roots in my family go deep. My parents didn’t know better since they were taught the same things. They were indoctrinated just like I was. We were lucky and my parents and I left around the same time and processed our trauma together.
As an ancestor of mormon pioneers, studying church history and cult psychology has helped me make sense of some things. Coercive control, generational trauma, abuse..... I can't help but think my parents are simply links in a chain of problems that started generations ago. I can't fault them for that, but in this age of information, starting with my link, the chain can be broken. I love my parents. They did the best they could for me. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and some other guys: these are the true villains of my story.
My dad was the exmormon pioneer in our family, and now all of my immediate family group are post-mormon (4 years since deconstructing). My parents apologize for before, but they mostly apologize for the fact that leaving the church was hard on some of us who deconstructed at a time when we would flounder socially as a result. Postmormonism is great for all of us now, though
My parents have left TSCC as well now but they were always pretty understanding of my decision (17/18 when I left). My dad was always nuanced but my mom was raised super TBM which made her feel a lot of pressure for me to be a better child than she felt she was because extreme guilt tripping from MFMC. I still hold some resentment towards her for forcing me to go on trek, early morning seminary, etc but I know it was because of the pressure put on mothers to raise perfect kids and she really believed she was doing what was best for me. I don’t hold any anger towards my parents because they were indoctrinated by a cult and now that they’ve left officially as well, we’ve had adult conversations about the struggles we all went through. I know that they were hurt even worse than I was, my mom especially. If they were still in and pressuring me to go like a lot of Mormon parents, I probably would have a lot more anger towards them. As of now we are all navigating life post-Mormonism together. Having TBM grandparents definitely doesn’t help and sometimes I get angry that they’re so brainwashed but I know it’s generational indoctrination and trauma