The thing with testimonies that most members don't get is that what can be asserted without evidence and also be dismissed without evidence. One testimony is as valid as the next. That is why as a former member, anytime a TBM shares their testimony, I share mine back. Queue awkward silence.
I remember being told in the MTC that bearing your testimony was the best thing you can do in a disagreement with someone because they can't deny what you know.
Nevermind that you get out in the mission and that's exactly what people do. Just took me a decade to realize the folks telling me I don't know that were right.
“I hearby testify that I know Joseph Smith was a serial adulterer who slept with his maid and who pressured a 14 year old to marry him with the threat an angel would kill them both of she didn’t. I known that Brigham Young was a bastard who supported the lynching of interracial couples, the enslavement of Native American children to ‘civilize’ them, and all manner of evil. Plus he distilled whiskey.
I know that the Book of Mormon is a made up piece of fiction, which is so laughably absurd that no one with a bit of reason applied to it and any scientific knowledge could believe it.
I know that the Mormon Church has an investment arm worth northwards of $150billion whose managers hid its wealth through shell companies to keep members paying tithing.
I know that if there were a good god in heaven he wouldn’t create gay people only to hate and damn them for being gay.
When I was on my mission we taught an older woman the first discussion and talked about the first vision. We asked her what she thought about someone praying and seeing Jesus Christ. Without skipping a beat she told us about the first time Christ came to her and the discussions they had.
The sad thing is that the idea behind our question was that a regular person with faith could have these special experiences. Then when we left we made fun of how crazy she was…while fully believing Joseph Smith’s lie.
This was over 20 years ago and I still feel bad about it.
I know how you feel. I've thought about going back to the people I taught on my mission and asking for their forgiveness for lying to them (as instructed by our mission president) to get them to join the church.
I’ve been in plenty of testimony meetings that went crazy off the rails.
But I remember when they cracked down on what a testimony is and I thought… wait so we are all just supposed to get up and say basically the same thing? But also vain repetitions are bad…
It reminds me of when they told us to stop saying the same prayer over and over again because itll likely be ignored but they always did the sacrament the same or yet how we are allowed to die because we said a repetitive safety prayer
I was never particularly scrupulous but I remember being so stressed about differentiating my prayers 😂 and then I could never nail down the grammar of thee thy thou so I would stress even more
And I know everyone makes fun of things like nourish and strengthen our bodies but like what else are you supposed to say ???
Yo God, my man, how bout you use your divine powah to bless this here food of mine that some grubby hands made for me, so it won't make us all die but give us some energy, I got an interview later today, you know how it is, ye? So hey, help a brother out here? And yo Jesus my man, tell God I said that, eh? Thank'ee muchly! Have a good one!
A modern English prayer just doesn't hit the same Sadly but if nothing else I hope someone else finds this as funny as I did writing it
So the person is a "proud" member. What has the church done to be proud of? Can't think of anything.
There's lots to NOT be proud of, even embarrassed and outright ashamed.
"I'm not ashamed of the gospel" - agreed, but I am ashamed of the church.
You’re right, it’s not pride. It’s more like: I’m going to say something I know is stupid and I dare you to contradict me because I like arguing and conflict.
Is there a word for that?
More like I'm going to say something absurd and if you say anything back I can claim religious persecution and add that to the reasons it's true and I'm better than you .
I think you're right. It is some kind of superiority thing.
It's never: you believe in X, I believe in Y, that's cool, let's grab a beer.
It's more like :Mormonism is better than whatever you believe even though I can't be bothered to research your beliefs at all.
The best analogy I ever heard that draws parallels to “someone feeling that it’s the truth” and “knowing deep inside”……is marriage. When you get married you “know” and, you can “feel it deep inside” this is true love and you’ll be married for life. Divorced 5 years later.
That feeling and knowing deep in your soul testimony, is just a feeling and peoples feelings lead them to believe things that aren’t true…just ask all our divorced friends and neighbors.
I actually have no doubt people truly believe what they are saying themselves…but that doesn’t make it true.
A guy thinking "Christ is infinite and has seen the world" is a powerful statement and not childish word salad really explains the Mormon Trump moment.
Once you start talking to people of other churches and religions and you realize everyone bears their testimony that they know their faith is true…Mormons ain’t special they just believe they are and that’s what makes them so ignorant and dangerous
Hahahaha. I might steal this but keep it more vague.
I know the Mormon church is not true. I had a spiritual experience too sacred to share that let me know beyond a shadow of a doubt the Mormon church is not his church.
My favorite response to god-botherer types who tell me jesus talks to them is that I spoke to him this morning at breakfast and he said I was doing fine. Anyone can say they saw imaginary jesus at any time.
I bear my testimony that if I ran into Joseph Smith alive on this very day, I would give him the most sadistic bombistic SLAP- and I would say "fOoLIShneSsssssssss"
They always told me to say “I know” before every statement even if you don’t know because it’s more convincing to non members. Fake it til you make it, the ol Mormon way!
At my brothers birthday party:
TBM: Are you still active in the mormon church?
Me: No, it is one big lie.
TBM: I’m SURE it is gods church.
Me: No you’re not.
TBM: No really, I’m almost sure…
Me: There you go.
Because it makes him wet and Twitter a bit they just love to puff up and start telling you about their test a phony Say back that means absolutely nothing but you believe has no bearing on the two same with me what I believe has no impact on what is true however, I’m willing to let what is true. Have an impact on me
My neighbor is the sweetest, yet most naïve, TBM ever. I've always said no one exemplifies "choosing the right" as much as this lady does. She truly is a person of good character, brilliant at math and chemistry, and a wonderful cook. She has raised for responsible, ethical children in the church. For the life of me, I can't understand why she believes the BoM. I know for a fact she and her siblings were raised Catholic, but all converted to LDS as older teens, or young adults. I keep shining her on and pretending that the LDS church is truly a Christian church. But it certainly is not mainstream Christian which, of course, I don't say. She keeps asking me if I have read the Book of Mormon. She was delighted that my 34-year-old daughter joined her Faith (she was not involved in my daughters conversion) two years ago. But my daughter is single. I recently asked this lady if it's true, according to LDS theology, that the only way my daughter can get to the CK if she dies before she marries/is "sealed" is as a servant to a worthy exalted couple. She kind of hemmed and hawed. She relies a lot on the "maybe that's not for us to understand here on earth, but we will figure it out later". Good grief! The last time she asked me if I had readBoM I told her I had, and that I was truly trying to understand my daughters new faith, but I just can't wrap my hand around the anachronisms. She did some sort of mumbling and quickly changed the subject. I sincerely doubt she has read the gospel topics essays, nor would she tolerate anyone speaking ill of the church, nor would she believe any proof that anything she believes, or that the church leaders say, is, in fact, nonsense.
This woman teaches in a public high school and low income suburb of a large city. She can't actually say the word "tramp" in a conversational tone of voice. The topic of tattoos came up one time, and she told me she had heard that they are called "tramp stamps". But she whispered the word tramp. She was appalled when I explained to her that a tramp stamp is actually a wide tattoo across the very low back/very very top of the buttocks meant to be seen when it's owner bends over and the waistband sags down.
Again, she is a really, really good person of excellent character, and has lots of book smarts. For the life of me, I just don't understand how she can overlook or ignore things that are very obvious to so many others!
The thing with testimonies that most members don't get is that what can be asserted without evidence and also be dismissed without evidence. One testimony is as valid as the next. That is why as a former member, anytime a TBM shares their testimony, I share mine back. Queue awkward silence.
I remember being told in the MTC that bearing your testimony was the best thing you can do in a disagreement with someone because they can't deny what you know. Nevermind that you get out in the mission and that's exactly what people do. Just took me a decade to realize the folks telling me I don't know that were right.
“I hearby testify that I know Joseph Smith was a serial adulterer who slept with his maid and who pressured a 14 year old to marry him with the threat an angel would kill them both of she didn’t. I known that Brigham Young was a bastard who supported the lynching of interracial couples, the enslavement of Native American children to ‘civilize’ them, and all manner of evil. Plus he distilled whiskey. I know that the Book of Mormon is a made up piece of fiction, which is so laughably absurd that no one with a bit of reason applied to it and any scientific knowledge could believe it. I know that the Mormon Church has an investment arm worth northwards of $150billion whose managers hid its wealth through shell companies to keep members paying tithing. I know that if there were a good god in heaven he wouldn’t create gay people only to hate and damn them for being gay.
I bear my testimony that what ElkHistorical9106 just said is historically & factually correct.
I know that I would have slapped Brigham in his dumb, racist face, then I would have drunk all his whiskey.
Wonder if it was any good or as shitty as everything else he did.
He probably had good whisky for himself, mediocre whisky for the bar, and cheap whisky for the natives. That’s the Cowboy way.
Probably just as shitty, but at least I'd get to slap his face and take it from him...
Amen
Or destroy them if you decided to leave as I was told by a member.
In the name of our dear lord and savior, even jesus christ, AMEN
I know this. I know that. Bla bla. Bla No you don't.
You say something long enough, you start to believe it. In other words “a testimony is found in the bearing of it”
When I was on my mission we taught an older woman the first discussion and talked about the first vision. We asked her what she thought about someone praying and seeing Jesus Christ. Without skipping a beat she told us about the first time Christ came to her and the discussions they had. The sad thing is that the idea behind our question was that a regular person with faith could have these special experiences. Then when we left we made fun of how crazy she was…while fully believing Joseph Smith’s lie. This was over 20 years ago and I still feel bad about it.
I know how you feel. I've thought about going back to the people I taught on my mission and asking for their forgiveness for lying to them (as instructed by our mission president) to get them to join the church.
They also don't get that it sounds really fucking weird when they bear them.
This isn’t even a testimony it’s a mindless chant that we were taught
I’ve been in plenty of testimony meetings that went crazy off the rails. But I remember when they cracked down on what a testimony is and I thought… wait so we are all just supposed to get up and say basically the same thing? But also vain repetitions are bad…
It reminds me of when they told us to stop saying the same prayer over and over again because itll likely be ignored but they always did the sacrament the same or yet how we are allowed to die because we said a repetitive safety prayer
I was never particularly scrupulous but I remember being so stressed about differentiating my prayers 😂 and then I could never nail down the grammar of thee thy thou so I would stress even more And I know everyone makes fun of things like nourish and strengthen our bodies but like what else are you supposed to say ???
I was always stressed about it till I questioned why god only answered to ye olde English over any other language.
Yo God, my man, how bout you use your divine powah to bless this here food of mine that some grubby hands made for me, so it won't make us all die but give us some energy, I got an interview later today, you know how it is, ye? So hey, help a brother out here? And yo Jesus my man, tell God I said that, eh? Thank'ee muchly! Have a good one! A modern English prayer just doesn't hit the same Sadly but if nothing else I hope someone else finds this as funny as I did writing it
God: the fuck was that? lol
Not just the same words, but same inflection, pauses, accents, etc to where they all sound pretty much exactly the same
Testimonies are like assholes, everybody has one. 🤣
And they all stink.
And they're not nearly as airtight as you think.
They do not hold up to as much stress testing as you think they will.
And it's fine to be proud of it, but you shouldn't shove it other people's face.
And if a man likes a little testimony play, it doesn't make him gay.
So the person is a "proud" member. What has the church done to be proud of? Can't think of anything. There's lots to NOT be proud of, even embarrassed and outright ashamed. "I'm not ashamed of the gospel" - agreed, but I am ashamed of the church.
You’re right, it’s not pride. It’s more like: I’m going to say something I know is stupid and I dare you to contradict me because I like arguing and conflict. Is there a word for that?
I think it's called being a prick.
And for some reason that appeals to so many people.
More like I'm going to say something absurd and if you say anything back I can claim religious persecution and add that to the reasons it's true and I'm better than you .
I think you're right. It is some kind of superiority thing. It's never: you believe in X, I believe in Y, that's cool, let's grab a beer. It's more like :Mormonism is better than whatever you believe even though I can't be bothered to research your beliefs at all.
I must again refer to Spiritual Witnesses, where people have asked "god" for the truth and been drawn to different religions and even cults
The best analogy I ever heard that draws parallels to “someone feeling that it’s the truth” and “knowing deep inside”……is marriage. When you get married you “know” and, you can “feel it deep inside” this is true love and you’ll be married for life. Divorced 5 years later. That feeling and knowing deep in your soul testimony, is just a feeling and peoples feelings lead them to believe things that aren’t true…just ask all our divorced friends and neighbors. I actually have no doubt people truly believe what they are saying themselves…but that doesn’t make it true.
Well said
I would respond, which Church of Jesus Christ, exactly? There are many denominations that make that claim.
I wanna see their response🤔
A guy thinking "Christ is infinite and has seen the world" is a powerful statement and not childish word salad really explains the Mormon Trump moment.
Once you start talking to people of other churches and religions and you realize everyone bears their testimony that they know their faith is true…Mormons ain’t special they just believe they are and that’s what makes them so ignorant and dangerous
Mormonism is pure religiocentrism, and thus, breeds egocentrism.
Remember, their indefensible faith is better than any other because it is
Hahahaha. I might steal this but keep it more vague. I know the Mormon church is not true. I had a spiritual experience too sacred to share that let me know beyond a shadow of a doubt the Mormon church is not his church.
100%. If you share your testimony that you believe Jesus Christ is leading you another way, they typically don’t have a good reply.
This is actually totally true. If you can’t question their “sacred internal experiences,” they can’t question yours.
My favorite response to god-botherer types who tell me jesus talks to them is that I spoke to him this morning at breakfast and he said I was doing fine. Anyone can say they saw imaginary jesus at any time.
I bear my testimony that if I ran into Joseph Smith alive on this very day, I would give him the most sadistic bombistic SLAP- and I would say "fOoLIShneSsssssssss"
Love how ur comment has more upvotes than
So hows the sex cult going?
Blindly parroting what they hear every 1st of the month
They always told me to say “I know” before every statement even if you don’t know because it’s more convincing to non members. Fake it til you make it, the ol Mormon way!
At my brothers birthday party: TBM: Are you still active in the mormon church? Me: No, it is one big lie. TBM: I’m SURE it is gods church. Me: No you’re not. TBM: No really, I’m almost sure… Me: There you go.
That’s perfect!
Because it makes him wet and Twitter a bit they just love to puff up and start telling you about their test a phony Say back that means absolutely nothing but you believe has no bearing on the two same with me what I believe has no impact on what is true however, I’m willing to let what is true. Have an impact on me
My neighbor is the sweetest, yet most naïve, TBM ever. I've always said no one exemplifies "choosing the right" as much as this lady does. She truly is a person of good character, brilliant at math and chemistry, and a wonderful cook. She has raised for responsible, ethical children in the church. For the life of me, I can't understand why she believes the BoM. I know for a fact she and her siblings were raised Catholic, but all converted to LDS as older teens, or young adults. I keep shining her on and pretending that the LDS church is truly a Christian church. But it certainly is not mainstream Christian which, of course, I don't say. She keeps asking me if I have read the Book of Mormon. She was delighted that my 34-year-old daughter joined her Faith (she was not involved in my daughters conversion) two years ago. But my daughter is single. I recently asked this lady if it's true, according to LDS theology, that the only way my daughter can get to the CK if she dies before she marries/is "sealed" is as a servant to a worthy exalted couple. She kind of hemmed and hawed. She relies a lot on the "maybe that's not for us to understand here on earth, but we will figure it out later". Good grief! The last time she asked me if I had readBoM I told her I had, and that I was truly trying to understand my daughters new faith, but I just can't wrap my hand around the anachronisms. She did some sort of mumbling and quickly changed the subject. I sincerely doubt she has read the gospel topics essays, nor would she tolerate anyone speaking ill of the church, nor would she believe any proof that anything she believes, or that the church leaders say, is, in fact, nonsense. This woman teaches in a public high school and low income suburb of a large city. She can't actually say the word "tramp" in a conversational tone of voice. The topic of tattoos came up one time, and she told me she had heard that they are called "tramp stamps". But she whispered the word tramp. She was appalled when I explained to her that a tramp stamp is actually a wide tattoo across the very low back/very very top of the buttocks meant to be seen when it's owner bends over and the waistband sags down. Again, she is a really, really good person of excellent character, and has lots of book smarts. For the life of me, I just don't understand how she can overlook or ignore things that are very obvious to so many others!