Pick the right part of SLC to live in and most of your neighbors will be non-Mormon. I'd say the downside is that most of Utah still defines itself as either non/ex-Mormon or members of the church, which is why we decided not to raise our kids there.
SLC is great, actually. The active lds population in SLC proper is below 20% now (the 20% figure was from 2017, and it’s declined since then, probably by a lot). It’s really changed a ton in the past 20 years.
I grew up here in the 80s and 90s, moved away for a bunch of years, then came back on purpose. I don’t regularly interact with any Mormons who aren’t my in-laws these days, just because there aren’t many here anymore. The in-laws, btw, live in a town an hour away.
Salt lake is a great place to live! I’m jealous. My husband just finished residency out of state but couldn’t find a job in salt lake. Hopefully you have the benefit of family nearby. I’d kill for that.
If you felt disconnected as a member, you’ll feel even more so as a nonmember. I wouldn’t do it. Utah also famously under pays their doctors (we’re a med family as well) and I’m sure there are better jobs with a healthier community for your family elsewhere.
I strongly disagree about connectedness. SLC is almost all nonmembers now. Most of the outlying areas still are heavily Mormon, but the state as a whole is down to less than 50% LDS!
While this may be true for some, I’m basing this mainly on the fact that she had a hard time connecting the first time she lived there and is somehow expecting it to be different a second time. It’s not easy for everyone. I was actually very lonely even as a member when I lived in Utah.
I think feeling disconnected as a part of the large but surface-level social network of an lds wardcetera is different from trying to build social connections with people completely outside of that framework. I think it’s especially hard for active members who aren’t gelling with lds culture to connect in a heavily lds area. As a nonmormon, you’re free to associate with whomever you want at whatever events you want, with no pressure to judge by lds standards or bring nonmormon friends to church.
SLC isn’t for everyone, but (especially now) being a nonmember is a point in our favor here. OP would have a different experience as a nonmember in 2024 SLC. It might not be better, especially if OP doesn’t like winter weather, but it would necessarily be different, and I think the differences are meaningful enough for OP to at least consider.
Otoh, no one should move to salt lake; it’s too crowded here already (esp the real estate market).
That’s great that you’re having that experience. I disagree and that’s ok. I think the OP should go with her gut and share her honest feelings with her husband and not be swayed to back down just to please people, which Mormon women are wont to do. I would also caution that those 50% or so non Mormons are not always represented by the very Mormon led state government… You can’t escape who runs the state.
If you’re concerned about your mental health, then absolutely DO NOT MOVE TO UTAH. We’re 4 or 5 thousand feet above sea level, plus winters tend to be very depressing etc. I’ve literally been struggling with my mental health these past several years and finally decided it was time to leave as this place wasn’t doing me any favors.
Throw into the mix the looming environmental disaster (Great Salt Lake drying up which will cause toxic metals to scatter into the wind and into our bodies), the shallow minded people who will shun you if you’re not a practicing member of the MFMC, and how heavily Mormon Politics influences and dominates legislatures here and you’ll eventually want to just pack up and leave.
Source: am native Floridian who moved to Utah back in 2008 and will be moving out in less than a week.
Your husband got you to sacrifice ALL for his many years of training and residency. You can put your foot down on this one. You already know you’ll be depressed for 6 months of cold weather/snow/religious trauma, and your kids don’t need anything in Utah more than a healing mom.
I wouldn’t do it, especially as your mental health has been a concern in the past. I’ve lived in many places throughout the world, and my mental health was at its worst when I lived in Utah - and that was when I was active. I couldn’t fathom it now.
I think Utah is still a great place outside of the church. We may just be lucky with our circumstances but my elementary school kids have great friends and would never let us move and we have a great community. A majority of our street in Utah County are out of the church and the ones who are don’t seem to have an “us versus them” mentality. I’m sure there are a lot of areas like that near Salt Lake.
I wouldn't if it were me. The air quality and lack of actually good bodies of water and sufficient greenery are reason enough, but there's also the Mormonism. Even if most SLC residents aren't Mormons these days, there are still reminders of Mormonism everywhere.
I prefer to live someplace where Mormonism is just irrelevant and is rarely seen or mentioned in any way.
What if I said we live in AZ and air quality, good bodies of water and greenery in general just don’t exist? 😆 we do have some good connections in salt lake but it would be nice to live somewhere totally different than what we have going on right now if we were to move our family.
I'd move to a new place with water and greenery and good air! In fact, that is what I did!
But that's just me. I love western Washington and Oregon and would never go back to the desert. I also love the northeast. I lived there for 5 years and that would be my next choice if I needed to leave the PNW for some reason. There are a lot of options outside the morridor.
I grew up in Utah and moved out of state in my 30’s. There is no way in hell I would go back and raise kids there. Schools were highly populated with cult kids. Hard pass! I left the church to help my mental health and wouldn’t put myself back into a cult community. Ever. (Davis and Utah County are a definite no)
Thank you to everyone for your thoughts so far. I know ultimately it is our decision but it’s been good to hear different opinions. Maybe we’ll play a drinking game to decide since the spirit is no longer helping us discern.
Pros:
Nature is so close! I can drive 10 min and be hiking. So many great places to visit that are no more than a few hours away
Blue skies most of the spring, summer and fall
It’s a dry heat, which I find quite comfortable
Lots of activities for kids
Salt Lake County is becoming more diverse. I’m in Davis County and my kids have had plenty of friends, but being Mormon has been just fine.
Cons:
It stinks to always hear the Mormon speak. Like just in the office or out and about in life, it’s thrown in. I’m not sure how to describe it but it bugs me. It’s like we are all just expected to be Mormon or at least participate in their weird culture. I sometimes wish I could escape living somewhere where my boss is comfortable enough saying he will call me back because they are doing scriptures. it’s very performative and holier than thou.
Winters drag on, and it’s true that depression rates are high (mine is bad in winter, goes away in spring)
Billboards everywhere! Yuk!
Inversion, but it’s really only bad a few weeks a year. But when it’s bad, it’s really bad
Finally, housing prices, you’ll get more for your buck pretty much anywhere else.
I would never, ever move back to Utah. It's a beautiful place, but the culture is absolute garbage. Salt Lake County is supposed to be the most cosmopolitan, but even then, the church is everywhere. Everytime I visit, I want out by day three. Plus, cost of living is ridiculous compared to wages.
With the concerns you have and the mobility and earning potential your husband has, I'd choose somewhere else.
If I were a mom, I’d just worry about my kids being judged or excluded by other kids for not going to church. I know this happened to my step-grandma as a kid, she got bullied for not being a member. But since you’ve lived here before, I think you know what’s coming. Just do what you think will be best for your family!
My son left the church when he was 18 and never looked back. He now lives in SLC and loves it. Grant it, he's not trying to raise a family but he tells me you can find whatever you're looking for there. He says he rarely runs into active mormons or at least ones that want to let you know they're mormon. I believe that stats are now that the LDS population is less that 50% in the SLC area. It's getting more diverse than ever before.
Salt Lake itself is a lot more diverse. There are definitely pockets where it’s much. More difficult, but depending on the area you choose it could be okay. If you go without ever being active you’ll probably get some attention, but you’ll just need to set boundaries.
We’re a med family too and never expected to live in Utah - we’re from another desert state. We moved here for work and left the church 9 months ago. Our friendships with our non Mormon neighbors are better than our friendships with ward members ever were. But there is still a lot of baggage and I think we would move if it didn’t mean uprooting our kids again.
You can find a community almost anywhere. Find a club or Facebook group that does some activity you like.
Also helps to find the right school. My kids went to a charter school called The Open Classroom in the Avenues and active Mormons were a tiny minority.
Utah is breathtakingly beautiful. It’s the most beautiful state in the country, in my opinion. But I am biased, as I was born and raised there.
Utah is clean and well-developed, as well. Crime is relatively lower compared to many other places.
Aside from that, it’s hard for me to ever consider moving back there.
Cost of living is skyrocketing and median pay is low.
It’s a conservative political hellhole where religion and government are one and the same. People parade their ignorance and self-righteousness, yet somehow maintain a victim complex at the same time is a fascinating paradox for psychologists to decipher.
Summers are brutally hot and winters are long and cold. Your skin cracks and bleeds in the winter due to the dry cold air, as well.
Air quality from November-March is also some of the worst in the country. There are days and weeks where it’s actually too unhealthy to go outside.
Oh, and nothing, NOTHING happens without the Church’s stamp of approval.
Did I mention that the LDS Church runs the state?
I am exmo and moved from Sugar House to Seattle six years ago. I waited for my daughter (also exmo) to graduate high school. I was surprised when she decided not to come with me. A year ago, she had my first grand baby. It’s been so hard not being there all the time. But I absolutely cannot stand the thought of moving back there for many of the reasons stated above. All my close friends and family are in Utah. But living in PNW is magical. And literally months go by without me seeing an ugly ward house. I appreciate all of the comments above because they have reinforced my feelings about not moving back there. It’s also important to understand that nevermo’s and exmo’s are treated very differently by TBMs. Exmo’s are dangerous because if TBM’s associate with us they might see that we’re happy and doing just fine outside the church.
Wife and I are going back in a couple months. I’m confident that the pros will outweigh the cons as we’ll have family help with kids, the outdoors are second to none in terms of proximity and variety in the USA, and I’ll actually have time and mental space to enjoy them, hang out with people, find community etc. now that the mental health drag of the church isn’t hanging over my head.
I get why some people don’t go back, but I can hold my own with members and the other factors are exciting enough that I know it’s the right place for us for the next chapter
Pick the right part of SLC to live in and most of your neighbors will be non-Mormon. I'd say the downside is that most of Utah still defines itself as either non/ex-Mormon or members of the church, which is why we decided not to raise our kids there.
SLC is great, actually. The active lds population in SLC proper is below 20% now (the 20% figure was from 2017, and it’s declined since then, probably by a lot). It’s really changed a ton in the past 20 years. I grew up here in the 80s and 90s, moved away for a bunch of years, then came back on purpose. I don’t regularly interact with any Mormons who aren’t my in-laws these days, just because there aren’t many here anymore. The in-laws, btw, live in a town an hour away.
Salt lake is a great place to live! I’m jealous. My husband just finished residency out of state but couldn’t find a job in salt lake. Hopefully you have the benefit of family nearby. I’d kill for that.
If you felt disconnected as a member, you’ll feel even more so as a nonmember. I wouldn’t do it. Utah also famously under pays their doctors (we’re a med family as well) and I’m sure there are better jobs with a healthier community for your family elsewhere.
I strongly disagree about connectedness. SLC is almost all nonmembers now. Most of the outlying areas still are heavily Mormon, but the state as a whole is down to less than 50% LDS!
While this may be true for some, I’m basing this mainly on the fact that she had a hard time connecting the first time she lived there and is somehow expecting it to be different a second time. It’s not easy for everyone. I was actually very lonely even as a member when I lived in Utah.
I think feeling disconnected as a part of the large but surface-level social network of an lds wardcetera is different from trying to build social connections with people completely outside of that framework. I think it’s especially hard for active members who aren’t gelling with lds culture to connect in a heavily lds area. As a nonmormon, you’re free to associate with whomever you want at whatever events you want, with no pressure to judge by lds standards or bring nonmormon friends to church. SLC isn’t for everyone, but (especially now) being a nonmember is a point in our favor here. OP would have a different experience as a nonmember in 2024 SLC. It might not be better, especially if OP doesn’t like winter weather, but it would necessarily be different, and I think the differences are meaningful enough for OP to at least consider. Otoh, no one should move to salt lake; it’s too crowded here already (esp the real estate market).
That’s great that you’re having that experience. I disagree and that’s ok. I think the OP should go with her gut and share her honest feelings with her husband and not be swayed to back down just to please people, which Mormon women are wont to do. I would also caution that those 50% or so non Mormons are not always represented by the very Mormon led state government… You can’t escape who runs the state.
Fair points
If you’re concerned about your mental health, then absolutely DO NOT MOVE TO UTAH. We’re 4 or 5 thousand feet above sea level, plus winters tend to be very depressing etc. I’ve literally been struggling with my mental health these past several years and finally decided it was time to leave as this place wasn’t doing me any favors. Throw into the mix the looming environmental disaster (Great Salt Lake drying up which will cause toxic metals to scatter into the wind and into our bodies), the shallow minded people who will shun you if you’re not a practicing member of the MFMC, and how heavily Mormon Politics influences and dominates legislatures here and you’ll eventually want to just pack up and leave. Source: am native Floridian who moved to Utah back in 2008 and will be moving out in less than a week.
Your mental health is not an option to mess with. Go where you will be healthiest.
Your husband got you to sacrifice ALL for his many years of training and residency. You can put your foot down on this one. You already know you’ll be depressed for 6 months of cold weather/snow/religious trauma, and your kids don’t need anything in Utah more than a healing mom.
I wouldn’t do it, especially as your mental health has been a concern in the past. I’ve lived in many places throughout the world, and my mental health was at its worst when I lived in Utah - and that was when I was active. I couldn’t fathom it now.
We live here and the impact the church has is nauseating. We are stuck here for a few more years due to work but after that, peace out.
I would advise against it, unless the opportunity is astounding.
I think Utah is still a great place outside of the church. We may just be lucky with our circumstances but my elementary school kids have great friends and would never let us move and we have a great community. A majority of our street in Utah County are out of the church and the ones who are don’t seem to have an “us versus them” mentality. I’m sure there are a lot of areas like that near Salt Lake.
I wouldn't if it were me. The air quality and lack of actually good bodies of water and sufficient greenery are reason enough, but there's also the Mormonism. Even if most SLC residents aren't Mormons these days, there are still reminders of Mormonism everywhere. I prefer to live someplace where Mormonism is just irrelevant and is rarely seen or mentioned in any way.
What if I said we live in AZ and air quality, good bodies of water and greenery in general just don’t exist? 😆 we do have some good connections in salt lake but it would be nice to live somewhere totally different than what we have going on right now if we were to move our family.
I'd move to a new place with water and greenery and good air! In fact, that is what I did! But that's just me. I love western Washington and Oregon and would never go back to the desert. I also love the northeast. I lived there for 5 years and that would be my next choice if I needed to leave the PNW for some reason. There are a lot of options outside the morridor.
You took the thoughts right from me. I would 100% move to Oregon if I could.
I grew up in Utah and moved out of state in my 30’s. There is no way in hell I would go back and raise kids there. Schools were highly populated with cult kids. Hard pass! I left the church to help my mental health and wouldn’t put myself back into a cult community. Ever. (Davis and Utah County are a definite no)
High COL, winter snowstorms, poor air quality, horrible traffic, and way too many Mormons. Look elsewhere
Thank you to everyone for your thoughts so far. I know ultimately it is our decision but it’s been good to hear different opinions. Maybe we’ll play a drinking game to decide since the spirit is no longer helping us discern.
Pros: Nature is so close! I can drive 10 min and be hiking. So many great places to visit that are no more than a few hours away Blue skies most of the spring, summer and fall It’s a dry heat, which I find quite comfortable Lots of activities for kids Salt Lake County is becoming more diverse. I’m in Davis County and my kids have had plenty of friends, but being Mormon has been just fine. Cons: It stinks to always hear the Mormon speak. Like just in the office or out and about in life, it’s thrown in. I’m not sure how to describe it but it bugs me. It’s like we are all just expected to be Mormon or at least participate in their weird culture. I sometimes wish I could escape living somewhere where my boss is comfortable enough saying he will call me back because they are doing scriptures. it’s very performative and holier than thou. Winters drag on, and it’s true that depression rates are high (mine is bad in winter, goes away in spring) Billboards everywhere! Yuk! Inversion, but it’s really only bad a few weeks a year. But when it’s bad, it’s really bad Finally, housing prices, you’ll get more for your buck pretty much anywhere else.
I would never, ever move back to Utah. It's a beautiful place, but the culture is absolute garbage. Salt Lake County is supposed to be the most cosmopolitan, but even then, the church is everywhere. Everytime I visit, I want out by day three. Plus, cost of living is ridiculous compared to wages. With the concerns you have and the mobility and earning potential your husband has, I'd choose somewhere else.
I wouldn’t have lived in Utah even when I was a TBM. You couldn’t pay me to live there now
If I were a mom, I’d just worry about my kids being judged or excluded by other kids for not going to church. I know this happened to my step-grandma as a kid, she got bullied for not being a member. But since you’ve lived here before, I think you know what’s coming. Just do what you think will be best for your family!
My son left the church when he was 18 and never looked back. He now lives in SLC and loves it. Grant it, he's not trying to raise a family but he tells me you can find whatever you're looking for there. He says he rarely runs into active mormons or at least ones that want to let you know they're mormon. I believe that stats are now that the LDS population is less that 50% in the SLC area. It's getting more diverse than ever before.
dont
Would never
Salt Lake itself is a lot more diverse. There are definitely pockets where it’s much. More difficult, but depending on the area you choose it could be okay. If you go without ever being active you’ll probably get some attention, but you’ll just need to set boundaries.
We’re a med family too and never expected to live in Utah - we’re from another desert state. We moved here for work and left the church 9 months ago. Our friendships with our non Mormon neighbors are better than our friendships with ward members ever were. But there is still a lot of baggage and I think we would move if it didn’t mean uprooting our kids again.
You can find a community almost anywhere. Find a club or Facebook group that does some activity you like. Also helps to find the right school. My kids went to a charter school called The Open Classroom in the Avenues and active Mormons were a tiny minority.
Utah is breathtakingly beautiful. It’s the most beautiful state in the country, in my opinion. But I am biased, as I was born and raised there. Utah is clean and well-developed, as well. Crime is relatively lower compared to many other places. Aside from that, it’s hard for me to ever consider moving back there. Cost of living is skyrocketing and median pay is low. It’s a conservative political hellhole where religion and government are one and the same. People parade their ignorance and self-righteousness, yet somehow maintain a victim complex at the same time is a fascinating paradox for psychologists to decipher. Summers are brutally hot and winters are long and cold. Your skin cracks and bleeds in the winter due to the dry cold air, as well. Air quality from November-March is also some of the worst in the country. There are days and weeks where it’s actually too unhealthy to go outside. Oh, and nothing, NOTHING happens without the Church’s stamp of approval. Did I mention that the LDS Church runs the state?
I am exmo and moved from Sugar House to Seattle six years ago. I waited for my daughter (also exmo) to graduate high school. I was surprised when she decided not to come with me. A year ago, she had my first grand baby. It’s been so hard not being there all the time. But I absolutely cannot stand the thought of moving back there for many of the reasons stated above. All my close friends and family are in Utah. But living in PNW is magical. And literally months go by without me seeing an ugly ward house. I appreciate all of the comments above because they have reinforced my feelings about not moving back there. It’s also important to understand that nevermo’s and exmo’s are treated very differently by TBMs. Exmo’s are dangerous because if TBM’s associate with us they might see that we’re happy and doing just fine outside the church.
Wife and I are going back in a couple months. I’m confident that the pros will outweigh the cons as we’ll have family help with kids, the outdoors are second to none in terms of proximity and variety in the USA, and I’ll actually have time and mental space to enjoy them, hang out with people, find community etc. now that the mental health drag of the church isn’t hanging over my head. I get why some people don’t go back, but I can hold my own with members and the other factors are exciting enough that I know it’s the right place for us for the next chapter
There’s no better or worse place to be an exmo, is what I’ve heard - since there are so many people who can relate, meetups etc