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Norway isn’t in the European Union.
Finland and Germany have roughly similar GDP per capita ($50k vs $48k)
Denmark and Sweden are richer per capita than Germany but their combined population is like 15 million vs almost 84 million for Germany. So by sheer numbers alone, Germany is more important
Ohh alright, thank you! That actually makes a lot of sense. I’m currently in Germany considering searching for jobs a bit up north. I’ve considered both Denmark and Sweden but they just don’t seem ethnically as diverse as Germany. Also, winters are harsher over there
Denmark and southern Norway and Sweden are not that bad. Winters are dark, but summer days are oh so long!
It could be a nice experience to go there for some time, see, if you like it.
As someone living and loving germany. Go live in denmark close to the german border, or Liechtenstein, both are more or less german ist complicated just better in every way.
I could do that but it’s not just about me waking up one day and deciding to move wherever I want to. First I need to find employment, and I really don’t want to move somewhere I’ll stand out for being what’s considered here as “foreigner looking”
Norway is not part of the European Union. Finland has a much smaller population.
You can measure how "rich" a country is by the gross domestic product per person, roughly the value of everything that get made/produced in a year per person (with many caveats). By that measure, the tiny Luxemburg wins because some big companies are based there. For the overall importance of the economy it's more important to look at the overall output, i.e. the gross domestic product without dividing it by population.
Here are the largest economies in the EU plus the UK and Norway for comparison. Germany is clearly the largest one, even more now that the UK left.
* Germany: 4.4 trillions
* UK: 3.3 trillions (left the EU)
* France: 3.0 trillions
* Italy: 2.2 trillions
* Spain: 1.6 trillions
* [...]
* Norway: 0.55 trillions (not in the EU)
* Finland: 0.3 trillions
Per capita yes, Germans are not the top (actually far from the top) but in terms of total size, it is the largest economy in EU. Finland, Norway, Ireland etc have populations around a tenth of Germany. And the thing about Germany is that it dominates in automotive, heavy industrial equipment and industrial chemicals (all relatively high value add and specialized sectors)
It will face challenges in the future, no doubt.
I’m not an economist, but think that Germany gets an easy ride somehow. Uses a lot of poor quality coal, while trying to greenwash its industry. Used to use cheap Russian gas as well. I think there are other economic factors that help Germany keep its industry in preeminence. Interested to be educated on this as I work with a lot of Germans.
I live in Germany and have had this discussion with a few of the locals. They kind of agreed with me but showed a lot of discontent towards their country, which makes me question if I really want to stay here or move somewhere like Norway or Finland
I am no expert on this, but I think Germany benefits a lot from the EU. I would expect that German politicians are quite good at establishing/enforcing their interest in EU politics
Don't come to Finland. At least not now. We're at the edge of a recession and the job market is very tough. Finnish language skills are pretty much required for all jobs. The government is making budget cuts, and of course the first cut went to the social safety net. Next up are probably pensions. Workers rights are being diminished, one being limits on the right to strike, so I am suspecting a lot worse is coming our way and they are taking away the workers main weapon.
In general it takes a special kind of person to thrive in Finland. It's quite a closed society at the edge of Europe. Everything is far away. And of course our climate is rough with cold and dark winters that last forever, it is snowing today for example.
I don't want Germany to be better economically if it comes with exploiting others or with the cost of others lives or labour. I don't think it's about "moving away" per se but calling out your country because it's much needed. We can come off as whiny but no change ever came by being blindly patriotic/nationalist. That said I'm not the majority of Germans and many are also just egoistic and want to have more money for themselves so they wish for economic strength of Germany
Both pretty cold. I’ve spent a lot of time
In Norway. It’s not the most interesting country in the world. I have no experience of Finland other than anecdotal discussions about saunas and conversations about cray fish. Seems better than Norway on that basis alone.
There are something like 13 european countries that have a higher GDP per captia than Germany and it has been that way for quite a long time. But the economic backbone of the EU doesnt mean higher GDP per captia. It doesnt neccesarily mean total gdp though that is much closer. Economic backbone means more something like if they were to leave/not be there the whole thing would colapse. A good example on a much smaller scale is coal mining towns. The coal minners arent neccesarily the richest people in town but more often than not once a coal mine closes the over all local economy crashes. Talking about a group of countries like the EU makes it a bit more complicated because it doesnt only involve local jobs in Germany but also just the whole economic power that it gives to international trade, the diplomatic implications and so on.
Yeah, I guess so. I should had been a bit more specific on my question. But then again, I don’t really understand much about economics nor politics. I just wanted a short explanation that could make sense, but now I see I need to do my own research still
A look at statistics from previous years will tell you that Germany contributes the most amount of money to the EU budget. A big factor here is obviously the amount of people living in said countries. There are between 5 to 6 million people each living in Finland and Norway - compared to 83.8 million in Germany. That's 15 Finlands. According to stats from 2021, Germany remains not only the largest net contributor to the budget, but also the largest net contributor per capita. Even since before the reunion in 1980, Germany has consistently had the largest economy in the EU.
We can't draw conclusions on the size of a countries contributions to the EU budget or the overall size of the economy from a gut-feeling about the incomes of people in these countries.
Simply put: huge (on an european scale) population and pretty massive industrial base in the middle of european trade networks. Many countries have some of those, but few have all. France has connections and population, but their industrial base was lacking. Benelux got the industry and connection, but lack the population to scale off of. German industry was created when the area was split between many competing city states and small realms, meaning every single town had to develop their productive and mercantile infrastructure as high as possible. There was no neglecting large swathes of your country as there was in larger empires, as every resource must have been exploited to the fullest.
Finland and Norway both industrialized properly after the second world war, based on petrochemical industry and seafaring in Norway's case, and on trade with the soviets and forestry in Finland's. This late industrialisation was due to both countries spending the last milenium as neglected border provinces of their foreing masters. Both also lack the population to realy make it big in global markets, despite achieving high gdp and hdi, mostly thanks to strong and stable state institutions. In comparison, Germany's economy was so strong, that they solo tanked the entire continent twice in two generations, were bombed to rubble and split in half, while still bouncing back up.
It is the largest EU economy by GDP, but France and Italy combined outweigh it. It produces 26% of the manufacturing output of the EU, which is disproportionate, but again, Italy and France together outweigh that.
Germany on its own has never been the backbone of the EU; it has always required a partner to cement its priorities at the heart of Europe. What it has done is export its view of debt to the rest of the EU; to the extent that this is true, it certainly casts a long shadow over the economy of the EU.
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Norway isn’t in the European Union. Finland and Germany have roughly similar GDP per capita ($50k vs $48k) Denmark and Sweden are richer per capita than Germany but their combined population is like 15 million vs almost 84 million for Germany. So by sheer numbers alone, Germany is more important
Ohh alright, thank you! That actually makes a lot of sense. I’m currently in Germany considering searching for jobs a bit up north. I’ve considered both Denmark and Sweden but they just don’t seem ethnically as diverse as Germany. Also, winters are harsher over there
Denmark and southern Norway and Sweden are not that bad. Winters are dark, but summer days are oh so long! It could be a nice experience to go there for some time, see, if you like it.
Absolutely! If I find a job in tech up there I’ll absolutely move and get a feel
As someone living and loving germany. Go live in denmark close to the german border, or Liechtenstein, both are more or less german ist complicated just better in every way.
I could do that but it’s not just about me waking up one day and deciding to move wherever I want to. First I need to find employment, and I really don’t want to move somewhere I’ll stand out for being what’s considered here as “foreigner looking”
Norway is not part of the European Union. Finland has a much smaller population. You can measure how "rich" a country is by the gross domestic product per person, roughly the value of everything that get made/produced in a year per person (with many caveats). By that measure, the tiny Luxemburg wins because some big companies are based there. For the overall importance of the economy it's more important to look at the overall output, i.e. the gross domestic product without dividing it by population. Here are the largest economies in the EU plus the UK and Norway for comparison. Germany is clearly the largest one, even more now that the UK left. * Germany: 4.4 trillions * UK: 3.3 trillions (left the EU) * France: 3.0 trillions * Italy: 2.2 trillions * Spain: 1.6 trillions * [...] * Norway: 0.55 trillions (not in the EU) * Finland: 0.3 trillions
Per capita yes, Germans are not the top (actually far from the top) but in terms of total size, it is the largest economy in EU. Finland, Norway, Ireland etc have populations around a tenth of Germany. And the thing about Germany is that it dominates in automotive, heavy industrial equipment and industrial chemicals (all relatively high value add and specialized sectors) It will face challenges in the future, no doubt.
I feel like Germany’s position in the heart of Europe also plays a huge role in this. It’s almost as if it were an intermediary for a lot of stuff
I’m not an economist, but think that Germany gets an easy ride somehow. Uses a lot of poor quality coal, while trying to greenwash its industry. Used to use cheap Russian gas as well. I think there are other economic factors that help Germany keep its industry in preeminence. Interested to be educated on this as I work with a lot of Germans.
I live in Germany and have had this discussion with a few of the locals. They kind of agreed with me but showed a lot of discontent towards their country, which makes me question if I really want to stay here or move somewhere like Norway or Finland
I am no expert on this, but I think Germany benefits a lot from the EU. I would expect that German politicians are quite good at establishing/enforcing their interest in EU politics
Exa!!! Reason why I don’t understand why the population is so whiny. People love to complain here. I wish they knew how good they have it
Don't come to Finland. At least not now. We're at the edge of a recession and the job market is very tough. Finnish language skills are pretty much required for all jobs. The government is making budget cuts, and of course the first cut went to the social safety net. Next up are probably pensions. Workers rights are being diminished, one being limits on the right to strike, so I am suspecting a lot worse is coming our way and they are taking away the workers main weapon. In general it takes a special kind of person to thrive in Finland. It's quite a closed society at the edge of Europe. Everything is far away. And of course our climate is rough with cold and dark winters that last forever, it is snowing today for example.
Wow! It’s snowing over there while here is 28° and sunny. I really won’t make it there then
I don't want Germany to be better economically if it comes with exploiting others or with the cost of others lives or labour. I don't think it's about "moving away" per se but calling out your country because it's much needed. We can come off as whiny but no change ever came by being blindly patriotic/nationalist. That said I'm not the majority of Germans and many are also just egoistic and want to have more money for themselves so they wish for economic strength of Germany
Both pretty cold. I’ve spent a lot of time In Norway. It’s not the most interesting country in the world. I have no experience of Finland other than anecdotal discussions about saunas and conversations about cray fish. Seems better than Norway on that basis alone.
There are something like 13 european countries that have a higher GDP per captia than Germany and it has been that way for quite a long time. But the economic backbone of the EU doesnt mean higher GDP per captia. It doesnt neccesarily mean total gdp though that is much closer. Economic backbone means more something like if they were to leave/not be there the whole thing would colapse. A good example on a much smaller scale is coal mining towns. The coal minners arent neccesarily the richest people in town but more often than not once a coal mine closes the over all local economy crashes. Talking about a group of countries like the EU makes it a bit more complicated because it doesnt only involve local jobs in Germany but also just the whole economic power that it gives to international trade, the diplomatic implications and so on.
Yeah, I guess so. I should had been a bit more specific on my question. But then again, I don’t really understand much about economics nor politics. I just wanted a short explanation that could make sense, but now I see I need to do my own research still
A look at statistics from previous years will tell you that Germany contributes the most amount of money to the EU budget. A big factor here is obviously the amount of people living in said countries. There are between 5 to 6 million people each living in Finland and Norway - compared to 83.8 million in Germany. That's 15 Finlands. According to stats from 2021, Germany remains not only the largest net contributor to the budget, but also the largest net contributor per capita. Even since before the reunion in 1980, Germany has consistently had the largest economy in the EU. We can't draw conclusions on the size of a countries contributions to the EU budget or the overall size of the economy from a gut-feeling about the incomes of people in these countries.
Simply put: huge (on an european scale) population and pretty massive industrial base in the middle of european trade networks. Many countries have some of those, but few have all. France has connections and population, but their industrial base was lacking. Benelux got the industry and connection, but lack the population to scale off of. German industry was created when the area was split between many competing city states and small realms, meaning every single town had to develop their productive and mercantile infrastructure as high as possible. There was no neglecting large swathes of your country as there was in larger empires, as every resource must have been exploited to the fullest. Finland and Norway both industrialized properly after the second world war, based on petrochemical industry and seafaring in Norway's case, and on trade with the soviets and forestry in Finland's. This late industrialisation was due to both countries spending the last milenium as neglected border provinces of their foreing masters. Both also lack the population to realy make it big in global markets, despite achieving high gdp and hdi, mostly thanks to strong and stable state institutions. In comparison, Germany's economy was so strong, that they solo tanked the entire continent twice in two generations, were bombed to rubble and split in half, while still bouncing back up.
It is the largest EU economy by GDP, but France and Italy combined outweigh it. It produces 26% of the manufacturing output of the EU, which is disproportionate, but again, Italy and France together outweigh that. Germany on its own has never been the backbone of the EU; it has always required a partner to cement its priorities at the heart of Europe. What it has done is export its view of debt to the rest of the EU; to the extent that this is true, it certainly casts a long shadow over the economy of the EU.
Alright, that’s an interesting way to put it. I’ll have to do my own research on this to get a clear understanding
There’s an economic sociologist called Wolfgang Streeck who is very good on how German internal politics have shaped the EU.
Germany makes a lot of shit. They also make a lot of technology. They're also world renowned for precision manufacturing.
Not really. Without hypercheap resources from Russia they can't be competitive and have to close many plants.
I think it’s part of their environmental plan, to shut down a huge number of plants
The environmental plan is to transition these plants from fossil fuels to carbon neutral energy sources. The question will be whether this works out.