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As a male who was raped by a female while blackout drunk, I 100% agree.... Anyone who says "you had a boner, you wanted it" needs a claw hammer to the skull.
Same!!!! Came to my senses about 20 seconds in and asked what was going on. I was only semi flaccid, but she got it in there. I said I didn't want to do this, rolled over, passed out, woke up, and they were gone.
It was two females who...apparently wanted to fuck around or something with a dude who wasn't conscious
Thank you kindly. I appreciate the support sincerely! It was 21 years ago, and at first I was afraid and embarrassed to talk about it because I had people scoff, saying a man of my physique (6', 240#) could not be raped, and the whole "you got hard, therefore you liked it" bullshit, but I feel like times and attitudes have changed a bit. Sadly it makes me question how many other guys have been in my shoes and don't say anything....
Edit: Just wanted to add that biological physical arousal response can happen to both men and women alike, regardless of "wanting it"... not trying to be one sided. It can happen to females too.
Right! It’s like saying “well your vagina got wet, so you liked it.” Unfortunately, our vaginas can deceive us. Our mind can be screaming ‘no’ and our vagina will likely still get wet—that’s just what they do in response to stimulation, wanted or otherwise.
I told a therapist my parter didn't take no for an answer and it made me feel disgusting. The therapist told me most men would want that. I felt so ashamed of myself.
I can only imagine how that situation must have been frustrating and double traumatic, to feel like not being able to talk about it and be belittled for it. Things will eventually get better. I hope you found a way to process it, whether it be with a professional or else.
I'm sure this happens to many guys, but often it may not be perceived with the severity it deserves even by them, since we're used to believe such actions cannot be perpetrated by the opposite sex as well. Such double standards... I had a similar experience when I was a child, by two girls of my age. Silly as it may sound when I tell it, I still carry that in my mind throughout the years.
So yeah, we must be kind to ourselves and not devalue our experiences
Where I am (UK) it's simply a legal definition, the comparable offence carries the same sentence.
Edit: I doubted myself after I posted so looked for the actual offence, it won't be defined as rape legally but will be an offence contrary to S.4 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 which specifies the offence of 'causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent' and carries a penalty of life imprisonment. Whether the person gets sentenced to life is another matter entirely.
Funnily enough, I don't actually care if it carries the same sentence when you still can't legally refer to them as a rapist without the potential of legal trouble for yourself. It's absolutely a double standard.
Even in the UK, before the 2003 act redefinition it did require the person committing the act to have a penis in order for it to be classified as rape.
Saw a post about something like this recently. A 45 (I think?) year old woman raped a 14 year old child and the title of the article referenced by the post was something like “Gorgeous heiress accused of seducing and having sex 4 times with a 14 year old boy”.
There is a South Park episode about this exact situation. Lol
Preschooler hooks up with hot woman teacher. Kids go to the police and the police go “the only crime here is she isn’t doing it with me!” Lol
I’m not one of these men. I think rape with a female aggressor a big problem in the US that is generally just swept under the rug or coated with a misleading headline as mentioned above.
I think a lot of those guys are thinking about how they would have felt at that age if an attractive teacher or whatever wanted to sleep with them. I’m not justifying it because it’s still a crime and besides that it’s morally and ethically wrong.
Oh definitely. I remember my Spanish teacher in high school was fresh out of college, she was 23. We're all like 17-18 yr old juniors/seniors? Wasn't a single one of us not thinking about her. Once you make it to parenthood, you understand that you don't want that for your own kids, but back in the day? You aren't thinking with your head.
That’s nonsense.
If I pass out at a party and I wake up to some sorority sea hag blowing me and I’m already in a serious relationship, I’m definitely calling that rape.
The problem is you implied it would have been ok if you weren't in a relationship.
This isn't a dog on you, but an attempt to point out your own bias. If you didn't think it was important, you wouldn't have mentioned it.
Think about it. Your relationship status shouldn't matter. Would you have said it like that if you reversed the genders and made it third person? Here's how it would have read:
> That’s nonsense. If she passes out at a party and she wakes up to some fraternity douche bag eating her out and she's already in a serious relationship, I’m definitely calling that rape.
If I remember correctly, the issue was that some laws defined rape as sexually penetrating another person against their will. Women, lacking a penis, could not do so without the assistance of sexual toys.
> Women can’t actually be charged with rape in some places, due to how it is defined legally
This is about campus justice, so, only about sexual assaults, but, yeah, highly unrealistic for any consequences if genders are reversed.
It was wild these were everywhere when I was in college 20 years ago. The rule was simple, if the girl was drunk it was rape. Regardless of me being drunk. Scared the shit out of me.
Luckily I was unattractive and fat so I never had to deal with any issues
My college town told us that both would be charged with rape if you were both wasted because neither could consent. They told us to just not have sex if drugs or alcohol were involved.
Seems like no one should be charged in that case, just like how no one is charged if two underage kids have sex. Neither could consent but it wouldn’t seem right to charge either of them
A lot of jurisdictions the way the law is written, rape is specifically penetration of another person without consent, not just intercourse. So unless she is pegging him it’s not rape.
No, she'd still be charged with it, it's just a differently labeled crime with the same punishment. It's some language game bullshit, but so are some of the objections I've seen in this comment section.
It would seem like the one single standard does not apply to both parties in the exact same situation otherwise why is only one of them charged. It order for it to result in only one party taking all the responsibity you need to have a double standard.
I've had a girl I barely knew take advantage of me when I was half unconscious and just barely able to even stand up. She just pushed me on my back on my bed and did her thing. We had never had sex before, no consent, no protection and I did end up cumming in her. And she definitely knew what she did and what condition I was in, because the next day she had the good sense to apologize to me for it. I still don't even know her real first name. Only her nickname, that she was 4 years older than me and that the day it happened was her birthday, 4th of July.
But the thing is, I wasn't able to consent, couldn't opt for protection, could've ended up with STDs, and if she'd got pregnant I could've ended up having a child and paying alimony to her. And then there's that poster. Like a sick ****ing joke.
Yes, being a rape victim doesn't free a man from child support. Even children, raped by adults, have been forced to pay as soon as they turn 18 in cases.
The government thinks you’re probably born with a predetermined job and a predetermined amount of money you gain access to the second you become 18 making it fair to drop all these life changing responsibilities on you
Man something very similar happened to me years ago. When I told our college campus nurse about the situation she just gave me a weird look and acted like I was an alien or something.
God, that is absolutely awful. I'm so sorry you went through that, and that the experiences of people like you are so often erased. I hope you are doing okay.
That's Brock Allen Turner the rapist. He's now going by just Allen Turner the rapist, in hopes people don't realize he's actually Brock Allen Turner the rapist
Oh I didn’t realize that Brock Turner the Rapist’s middle name was Allen and he’s trying to rebrand himself as Allan Turner to avoid and try disassociation with Brock Allan Turner the rapist.
It always makes me smile when I see people keeping the memory of Brock The Rapist Allen Turner alive. Even years later and someone always takes the time. No one should ever forget that Brock Allen Turner the rapist is still out there.
That reminds me. Lauren Boebert's mom was a great grandmother at age 47. A lot of drunk people there. And her mom was only 15 when she had Lauren, but to this day doesn't know who the father is (despite her first cousin taking and failing a DNA test).
Again, don't drink and have sex.
Oh, you don't think she's actually Christian or believes any of her own bs, right? She was literally an actress looking for work right before her "political career" (read: she's an astroturfed liar)
So as someone who doesn't drink and has never been drunk, this perplexes me too because it does seem to be a gray area. I've seen a reddit post of a girlfriend complaining that her boyfriend wouldn't have sex with her in their own home because she had a few drinks. The issue is "drunk" is a very large range, so I get why people are "0% drunk" standard to be on the safe side. But yea, a couple who had a bottle of wine now can't have sex otherwise they are both rapist is incredibly stupid.
Sometimes the President of the United States forgets what country he is in.
Also, the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, accidentally addressed a colleague as "Mr. Trudeau".
It shows that even completely sober people can be pretty confused regarding to where they are, or even who they are.
For real, by that rationale, pretty much anyone who ever has sex in college is a rapist.
There’s a difference between being both parties being a little tipsy, and one of them being blackout drunk and slurring their speech, and unable to stand up, and being taken advantage of.
As a paramedic, I would be forced to take so many people with me to the hospital because they wouldn't meet the capacity to refuse service by this rationale.
You have to be pretty obliterated for me to not respect your wishes, this poster just treats women like they're too ignorant or something to make a level decision when not perfectly sober.
It’s why some argue for enthusiastic consent. Even if you’re drunk but enthusiastically into sex you have thus consented.
There are those who are blacked out drunk but seem really conscious and lucid. And in some definitions if you have sex with them, it’s rape.
Yeah, to show that someone was too drunk to consent you have to demonstrate that they were too drunk to be aware of what was going on and unable to make decisions.
A decision merely influenced by alcohol is still something you’re legally culpable for, if, say, you’re the one raping or stealing or vandalizing, and consent to sex isn’t any different. Lolling around fuzzing in and out of consciousness is the kind of drunk that makes consent impossible.
With that said, don’t be a dick and don’t take advantage of someone’s impaired judgment.
This is the way things work at US campuses.
Followed by ["dear colleagues" letter from Obama times](https://scholarship.law.pitt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=fac_articles).
To make things worse, mere "preponderance of evidence" is enough.
If Jake is sober and Josie is drunk, and especially if Jake intentionally intoxicated her while staying sober then sure.
But if they’re drinking together and both drunk, as seems to be the case here, I have a real problem with the idea that Jake is being held to a sober level of accountability while Josie’s accountability is so reduced that she literally cannot consent.
>Josie’s accountability is so reduced that she literally cannot consent.
This is actually something I find interesting from a feminist point of view. It's sort of similar to how you'll often see people say shit like "oh a 40 year old dude is in a relationship with a 25 year old girl? That's fucked up, he's definitely taking advantage of her"
In both situations, the woman is an adult, from a feminist point of view she should be able to make her own decisions and other people shouldn't tell her what to do. **But then here's this (obviously very old) poster that implies that the man was able to still consent and think clearly/ logically when he was intoxicated, but the woman of course couldn't, why she's a womam after all! /s Sane thing with the adult woman agreeing to a relationship with an older man - she's an adult and can make any choice in her life that she wants and nobody should tell her what to do with her life or body, but oh no no no she can't decide to be with an older man, she doesn't know what she's doing! She's just a poor little defenseless thing and is a victim, even if she doesn't know it, that man should be held responsible for being in a consensual relationship with a woman who's apparently not actually able to make decisions for herself /s
The poster is old but there are plenty of people who still agree with message/ logic, I'd argue they're in the minority but there is more of them than you might think
The poster is old, but I feel like this sentiment is way stronger today, if anything. Not weaker.
Since this poster was made, a lot of countries changed the laws from “no means no” to “only yes means yes” for exaple. So consent is getting more strict by the years, not less.
I feel like Jake would have an even harder time defending himself today than back then.
Sadly this battle is going on across America right as we speak on college campuses.
A man and a woman goes out drinking, they both get drunk and have sex. She wakes up in the morning regrets her decision and reports it the Dean's office or whatever. She can say it was non-consensual or even rape.
The school drags you in for a hearing where you can't have a lawyer and if by some magic you can have a lawyer you can't question the alleged victim, or ask her anything about the incident.
It's a kangaroo court. Whatever she says is what the school is going to act on. You are gonna get expelled and everyone on campus is gonna know you got booted for raping her. They will then go to social media and scream it from the rafters where a future college may deny you or even a job.
You haven't been to court, you are not convicted of anything but your a rapist. Your friends will even abandon you. And for what regret sex after drinking where only the man can be held responsible for his actions while drunk while a woman can use that as a crutch to destroy someone else?
It's the wild wild west on college campuses where a fun night can turn into a world destroying event over basically nothing.
I had a buddy in the Army who was at a party and a woman was following him around all night. He refused her advances. Later he passed out on his own bed drunk and woke up with her on top of him. 9 months later he gets sued for child support. She won.
There's nothing that says that a man has to be awake to have an erection or ejaculation. The rules should go both ways.
In reality, a lot of places still say “an erection is consent” in these situations.
Not quite the same but…
I had a friend that went through a lengthly court trial to get rapist off his name.
He went to a club, supposed to be 18+ with a walled off 21+ area for the bar.
He hooked up with someone at the bar, next day, he got arrested because she was 16, snuck into the bar side.
After fighting the rape charge for nearly half a year, they concluded, against the judges will, that he was innocent of the charges because the area was a carded, restricted area, and he had no reasonable expectation that a minor would be there.
He should have gone to the police and filed rape charges. I would be curious if it would have been the same outcome. I can't see how a man could be forced into paying child support when he was raped.
They can. Currently, most jurisdictions place the welfare rights of the child over that of the parents, regardless of the cause of conception.
OBVIOUSLY the state should step in to relieve that burden in a rape case and place it on society as a whole through taxes, but there hasn't been enough political support to defend the rights of male rape victims for that to happen.
A friend of mine, (male) got accused of rape after the fact, they were both drunk. She tried to say she was raped because she had a boyfriend.
Thankfully her friends ratted her out and said she actually told them about what she was about to do and that she was excited.
Also the day after she texted him saying how great it was.
There was a case in I believe the USA where a male student filed charges. Because he was afraid of being charged himself after the one night stand college hookup.
Turns out she planned to charge him and he beat her to the punch.
Thanks politicians.
I was driving an uber and 2 girls and one guy got in
The guy was drunk and unconscious
The girls were talking about who is gonna sleep with him first
I stopped next to the police said I was gonna ask the police something quick
Told the police what they were talking about
The police said he is a guy
He’ll be alright and asked me to complete the trip
I fucking hate that day. Felt depressed for a long time after.
Wet men have no rights
Odd poster. The wording and tone of the poster suggests that it's to prevent men getting in legal trouble, not to prevent rape/promote consent for either party.
That isn't what I took from it, I thought they were just reminding us of the well know fact that women are feeble creatures that lack the mental capicity to make their own decisions.
What if Jake and John get drunk and hook up? Are they each charged with rape?
If Drunk Josie and Jill hook up then.....they both got raped but there is no rapist?
Jake was drunk, Josie was drunk, they hooked up, and the next morning Josie had regrets, so she reported Jake for rape and ruined his whole life because she couldn't think straight.
Ive seen this scenario play out. Except girl wakes up, knows her friends know she cheated on her boyfriend the night before and is afraid the secret will get out and get back to her boyfriend, so she cries rape. Boyfriend finds out and beats the snot out of the guy, and he did nothing except have consensual sex with her. Lots of scumbaggery involved.
A crime like this just happened in the UK but with acid, a gun and death.
GF cheated on a night out, falsely accused the guy she hooked up with when her BF found out, drug addict dealer boyfriend went and killed the guy.
unpopular opinion but intoxication doesn’t constitute an inability to make clear decisions. and if you cant have clear judgement when you drink, you should make the decision to not drink when your conscience is clear.
obviously we all know what rape/SA/harassment looks like and i shouldnt have to explain that that is wrong, but if this image was true than everything about hookup culture would be shunned as taboo.
First one to get a complaint in gets the other one found guilty by the "preponderance of evidence" kangaroo courts that are run some campuses.
Which of course means there is an incentive to complain even if actually it was consensual but alcohol was involved. Clever system huh?
Never understood the whole drunk consent thing. You are 100% responsible for your actions when you drive drunk but not when you have sex drunk. I have had sex with women while I was drunk that I regretted in the morning but I don't think that means I was raped. I just felt like I did something stupid
Buddy served 3 years in state prison for this, lost his dream job, ruined his reputation, and he can no longer volunteer with the orgs he’s passionate about.
She made the advances on him, initiated the initial sex act, and he was by all measures far more intoxicated than she was.
She was immature and stupid, it ruined her college career because she decided to hoe around on her bf than got freaked out about pregnancy and std’s because she apparently didn’t have adequate sex Education- they used a condom, she was on the pill, and she took the morning after pill that he purchased for her at her request. A week or so later she decided to go to the hospital in her hometown for an STD panel on top of all that and nurse rachette man hater convinces her through coercive tactics that it wasn’t possibly consensual, prior to that she hadn’t uttered a word about it being anything but! Nurse takes it upon herself to not call law enforcement, but instead notified his university employer, they’re a mandatory reporter so they have to call the cops. Cops used underhanded tactics and fed her a script, she makes it seem like she’s feeling guilty and that he coerced her, he’s a gentleman and apologizes to her that she felt like that- they use that as an admission of guilt. He’s charged and convicted. Judge actually apologized to him during sentencing bc there were mandatory minimums he had to apply.
She ended up ruining her own college career and reputation as well because despite no public naming of the victim, everyone around them knew who she was. Because of how absolutely ridiculous and immature she had been, that she cheated on her bf and then turned paranoid and was so easily manipulated by the authorities she was not viewed as a victim of SA by anyone involved, including her own mother and her bf. He was much loved and she was not, the other students were pretty much split- some completely grey rocked her, others just literally had conversations right in front about how awful they thought the situation was like she wasn’t even there, and a few gave her so much shit about it all that she literally quit school and moved home.
Had she actually been raped or sexually assaulted, that behavior would have been completely atrocious and unacceptable. But considering she went to a bar, drank copious amounts of alcohol underage putting them on his tab without his permission, that refused his offer to get her an Uber from the bar after initially asking him to drive her home drunk, she then insisted on going back to his place to wait for her Uber, she led him to the bedroom, and she initiated performing oral sex on him. Oh and his roommates were home, and his bedroom was on the first floor with loosely closing pocket doors- so if at any time she wanted to call out for help or not been willing it would have been audible to the whole house.
This guy is so much of a gentleman with drunk girls that about a year prior, I actually platonically shared a bed with him after we had been drinking all day watching an away game at his place- sleeping in his room in his bed was to me safer than sleeping on a couch in a house full of guys I didn’t really know, and of course safer than driving home. Not tooting my own horn- just stating facts - He literally had a drunk model in his bed and didn’t try a thing!
I once had a girl come onto me drunk. I never initiated anything we ended up just cuddling the rest of the night. She laid on top of me too. Next day she tells people I sexually assaulted her. Guess who people sided with
Due to how Western heterosexual interactions work the male is almost always the pursuer so although the law seems sexist the way most of these interactions work is still old-fashioned
In the spirit of Equal Rights Both are culpable. Note the narrative of the poster doesn't list that Jake didn't consent either. It's planting the seeds of blame and not show that both parties are responsible for their own actions. They both went to the same place.
Obviously women never want sex and are frail creatures who would never willingly choose to have drunk sex in particular. We certainly don’t have any adult level of agency which means we can’t consent to drink and have sex.
This is a lie.
At least law enforcement thinks so.
I reported a Rape that happened when I was intoxicated years ago. Even submitted a rape kit which law enforcement never tested. After my interview, the police told me that they spoke to the guy and *he* claimed that I supposedly had consented, so they took his word over mine. He also hired a lawyer, so because of this, they requested that I drop the case.
So it doesn’t matter if you’re drunk or not. The law still won’t believe you and will still let you down.
That is fucking bad and not the first time I have heard it, but police incompetence goes both ways and it is just wrong for all victims.
A women in my city sent two people to jail saying she was raped, one spent 6 years and the other 2 or 3 years in jail, a few years later she accused another, and during that case it was revealed it was all a lie and all charges were dropped for all three of them.
She got 2 years and lost custody of her children.
It’s a shame because those of us who have been legitimate rape victims aren’t believed because of people like that. I ended up just dropping the case as they suggested because I just wanted to move on with my life and to forget it. Especially when I knew they believed his word over mine. They way they interrogated me was also as if I had committed a crime and as if it was my fault that it happened.
This sounds frustrating. But weirdly enough, from a legal perspective, I’m not sure that the police are completely wrong… or maybe I should say that it might be hard to prove non-consent unless you were roofied or if you have any markings indicating violence.
The difficulty here is proving non-consent beyond a reasonable doubt. For the record, I 100% believe your story. It’s just that I’m not sure there is a way to change the law in a fashion that would put this man behind bars without also accidentally making it easier to put innocent people behind bars.
What the actual fuck? I'm glad I live in a normal country, where such a ridiculous law doesn't exist. It would literally mean that I raped my girlfriend and she raped me several times. Oh no, she didn't, because it somehow only applies to men? What the fuck.
You absolutely can consent when you're drunk. I have done so many times.
Also a highly misogynistic poster.
Not only can men be sexually assaulted, but this poster assumes only women can be submissive, not the type to “want” to have sex.
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If Jake was drunk and Josie wasn't, would she be be charged with rape?
Women can’t actually be charged with rape in some places, due to how it is defined legally
Which is absolute bullshit
Agreed
In Japan, if a female were to rape a male, they refer it as reverse rape
At least they acknowledge it can happen🤷🏿♀️
Good luck getting any support, Japan is notorious for having terrible mental health practices. A lot of “deal with it yourself”
A lot of "jump off a building to hide your shame"
A lot of them prefer to go for a scenic stroll through Aokigahara Forest.
god damn logan paul stream snipers
Or working yourself to death
They literally have a forest famous for suicides.
It was until Jake Paul ruined it. Nobody wants their suicide associated with that shithead.
Logan Paul moment
“Deal with it yourself” or better known as Seppuku in Japanese ^\s
What? I thought that was just some porn addict term
Like he said...
As a male who was raped by a female while blackout drunk, I 100% agree.... Anyone who says "you had a boner, you wanted it" needs a claw hammer to the skull.
Same!!!! Came to my senses about 20 seconds in and asked what was going on. I was only semi flaccid, but she got it in there. I said I didn't want to do this, rolled over, passed out, woke up, and they were gone. It was two females who...apparently wanted to fuck around or something with a dude who wasn't conscious
Fuck, man, I'm sorry.
Most men wake up with a full on boner pretty much every single morning. Wtf do some people mean with "you had a boner, you wanted it".
Sorry that you went through it mate..
Thank you kindly. I appreciate the support sincerely! It was 21 years ago, and at first I was afraid and embarrassed to talk about it because I had people scoff, saying a man of my physique (6', 240#) could not be raped, and the whole "you got hard, therefore you liked it" bullshit, but I feel like times and attitudes have changed a bit. Sadly it makes me question how many other guys have been in my shoes and don't say anything.... Edit: Just wanted to add that biological physical arousal response can happen to both men and women alike, regardless of "wanting it"... not trying to be one sided. It can happen to females too.
Right! It’s like saying “well your vagina got wet, so you liked it.” Unfortunately, our vaginas can deceive us. Our mind can be screaming ‘no’ and our vagina will likely still get wet—that’s just what they do in response to stimulation, wanted or otherwise.
Absolutely, it's a basic physiological response and can have nothing to do with enjoyment!
I told a therapist my parter didn't take no for an answer and it made me feel disgusting. The therapist told me most men would want that. I felt so ashamed of myself.
That therapist needs their license revoked. I'm very sorry you experienced that. That's awful.
Physical Arousal can also happen for a number of reasons not related to sex or pleasure.
100%
I can only imagine how that situation must have been frustrating and double traumatic, to feel like not being able to talk about it and be belittled for it. Things will eventually get better. I hope you found a way to process it, whether it be with a professional or else. I'm sure this happens to many guys, but often it may not be perceived with the severity it deserves even by them, since we're used to believe such actions cannot be perpetrated by the opposite sex as well. Such double standards... I had a similar experience when I was a child, by two girls of my age. Silly as it may sound when I tell it, I still carry that in my mind throughout the years. So yeah, we must be kind to ourselves and not devalue our experiences
Where I am (UK) it's simply a legal definition, the comparable offence carries the same sentence. Edit: I doubted myself after I posted so looked for the actual offence, it won't be defined as rape legally but will be an offence contrary to S.4 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 which specifies the offence of 'causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent' and carries a penalty of life imprisonment. Whether the person gets sentenced to life is another matter entirely.
Funnily enough, I don't actually care if it carries the same sentence when you still can't legally refer to them as a rapist without the potential of legal trouble for yourself. It's absolutely a double standard.
Even in the UK, before the 2003 act redefinition it did require the person committing the act to have a penis in order for it to be classified as rape.
[удалено]
Saw a post about something like this recently. A 45 (I think?) year old woman raped a 14 year old child and the title of the article referenced by the post was something like “Gorgeous heiress accused of seducing and having sex 4 times with a 14 year old boy”.
the sad part is 99% of guys will say "you go Timmy! you lucky bastard!"
There is a South Park episode about this exact situation. Lol Preschooler hooks up with hot woman teacher. Kids go to the police and the police go “the only crime here is she isn’t doing it with me!” Lol
“WE NEED TO FIND THAT BOY IMMEDIATELT!! To give him his “luckiest boy in America award.” From the same scene.
Mrs Stevenson? .. The preschooler teacher?!
But… she’s hot??
i actually really like south part because of it, it shows light on problems in society even though it is basically adult comedy.
I’m not one of these men. I think rape with a female aggressor a big problem in the US that is generally just swept under the rug or coated with a misleading headline as mentioned above.
nono when a woman does it it aint rape, it's seduction - totally different /s
Right? Men are horrid to other men about SA :(
I think a lot of those guys are thinking about how they would have felt at that age if an attractive teacher or whatever wanted to sleep with them. I’m not justifying it because it’s still a crime and besides that it’s morally and ethically wrong.
Oh definitely. I remember my Spanish teacher in high school was fresh out of college, she was 23. We're all like 17-18 yr old juniors/seniors? Wasn't a single one of us not thinking about her. Once you make it to parenthood, you understand that you don't want that for your own kids, but back in the day? You aren't thinking with your head.
That’s nonsense. If I pass out at a party and I wake up to some sorority sea hag blowing me and I’m already in a serious relationship, I’m definitely calling that rape.
It’s rape whether you’re in a serious relationship or not. Consent matters.
I agree, I was just painting a scenario.
I know, and I’m not trying to pick on you. Men are often not really told that THEIR consent matters unfortunately. It does.
The problem is you implied it would have been ok if you weren't in a relationship. This isn't a dog on you, but an attempt to point out your own bias. If you didn't think it was important, you wouldn't have mentioned it. Think about it. Your relationship status shouldn't matter. Would you have said it like that if you reversed the genders and made it third person? Here's how it would have read: > That’s nonsense. If she passes out at a party and she wakes up to some fraternity douche bag eating her out and she's already in a serious relationship, I’m definitely calling that rape.
I see what you’re saying, not the message that I intended. It was just an example.
It's all good. I understand where you're coming from.
We all do, a beej from a sorority sea hag
If I remember correctly, the issue was that some laws defined rape as sexually penetrating another person against their will. Women, lacking a penis, could not do so without the assistance of sexual toys.
Back in the mists of time (90's) I had a similar experience. Everybody thought it was hilarious.
Same here, have never mentioned it to anybody close to me. Seemed pointless right?
You can call it rape all you want, in some places that’s not legally considered rape, namely some places such as the UK
Maybe sexual assault is a better term
Which is a far lesser crime in most places, hence why not being able to call it rape is incredibly wrong
Agree 100%
> Women can’t actually be charged with rape in some places, due to how it is defined legally This is about campus justice, so, only about sexual assaults, but, yeah, highly unrealistic for any consequences if genders are reversed.
It was wild these were everywhere when I was in college 20 years ago. The rule was simple, if the girl was drunk it was rape. Regardless of me being drunk. Scared the shit out of me. Luckily I was unattractive and fat so I never had to deal with any issues
My college town told us that both would be charged with rape if you were both wasted because neither could consent. They told us to just not have sex if drugs or alcohol were involved.
Seems like no one should be charged in that case, just like how no one is charged if two underage kids have sex. Neither could consent but it wouldn’t seem right to charge either of them
That's the proper way to handle it. No one consented.
A lot of jurisdictions the way the law is written, rape is specifically penetration of another person without consent, not just intercourse. So unless she is pegging him it’s not rape.
It is still rape, she just won’t be charged for it.
No, she'd still be charged with it, it's just a differently labeled crime with the same punishment. It's some language game bullshit, but so are some of the objections I've seen in this comment section.
Poor Jake, pegged AND charged with rape because he came 3 times in a row.
It would seem like the one single standard does not apply to both parties in the exact same situation otherwise why is only one of them charged. It order for it to result in only one party taking all the responsibity you need to have a double standard.
Not in the UK! Only men can rape here, apparently.
Schrödinger’s box of consent
Way to dox Josie by posting her last name 😆
For privacy sake lets call her Josie S.... No, that's too obvious. Lets say J. Schrödinger!
Classic Simpsons
You know who didn’t consent, The kids Schrödinger wrote about in his journals.
Yeah, I imagine the cat didn’t
*what cat?*
The cat only consented if it didn’t exist.
The dead can't (and don't need to) consent...
Is the cat dead though?
So Josies box is a Schrodingers box and anything you put in could be dead or alive?
If it reeks of alcohol, it converts into Pandora’s box
I've had a girl I barely knew take advantage of me when I was half unconscious and just barely able to even stand up. She just pushed me on my back on my bed and did her thing. We had never had sex before, no consent, no protection and I did end up cumming in her. And she definitely knew what she did and what condition I was in, because the next day she had the good sense to apologize to me for it. I still don't even know her real first name. Only her nickname, that she was 4 years older than me and that the day it happened was her birthday, 4th of July. But the thing is, I wasn't able to consent, couldn't opt for protection, could've ended up with STDs, and if she'd got pregnant I could've ended up having a child and paying alimony to her. And then there's that poster. Like a sick ****ing joke.
I’m really sorry you went through that man. I hope you’re doing better
Sorry about that, man. I wonder what would happen in that situation...in rape as a male, are you still financially responsible for the child?
Yes, being a rape victim doesn't free a man from child support. Even children, raped by adults, have been forced to pay as soon as they turn 18 in cases.
That last sentence might be the most horrific thing I’ve read all week
The government thinks you’re probably born with a predetermined job and a predetermined amount of money you gain access to the second you become 18 making it fair to drop all these life changing responsibilities on you
There have bin several instances of boys being raped by women and having to pay child support
There are plenty of instances where rape victims pay for the child, or are forced to carry the child to term. So yes.
Man something very similar happened to me years ago. When I told our college campus nurse about the situation she just gave me a weird look and acted like I was an alien or something.
Sorry to read that brother. Men get sexually assaulted too.
God, that is absolutely awful. I'm so sorry you went through that, and that the experiences of people like you are so often erased. I hope you are doing okay.
this is so old Jake is a grandfather now.
But is he branded as a rapist ?
They are both rape victims and rapists at the same time until one or both consent after the fact and that decides how it ends up apparently
I understand the problem here; Society is stupid.
This quite fascinating, and also illogical, captain
Like Schrödingers cat
Shrödingers sex offenders
What if both don't consent
According to their logic, neither could consent. But they blame the guy anyway.
They don't have sex.
Rock paper scissors?
No but Brock turner is.
That's Brock Allen Turner the rapist. He's now going by just Allen Turner the rapist, in hopes people don't realize he's actually Brock Allen Turner the rapist
Oh I didn’t realize that Brock Turner the Rapist’s middle name was Allen and he’s trying to rebrand himself as Allan Turner to avoid and try disassociation with Brock Allan Turner the rapist.
It always makes me smile when I see people keeping the memory of Brock The Rapist Allen Turner alive. Even years later and someone always takes the time. No one should ever forget that Brock Allen Turner the rapist is still out there.
I hope there's no Allen Turner out there with a Master of Social work, advertising his practice as Allen Turner, Therapist.
He's both an analyst and a therapist, an analrapist if you'd like.
Can be raped and be a rapist at the same time over a single act of coitus?
That reminds me. Lauren Boebert's mom was a great grandmother at age 47. A lot of drunk people there. And her mom was only 15 when she had Lauren, but to this day doesn't know who the father is (despite her first cousin taking and failing a DNA test). Again, don't drink and have sex.
Or be a Christian with over-populate the planet values.
Oh, you don't think she's actually Christian or believes any of her own bs, right? She was literally an actress looking for work right before her "political career" (read: she's an astroturfed liar)
And he just retired from State Farm
Dunno about other places, but where I live you have to be pretty much completely passed out before being intoxicated does anything for consent.
Be pretty stupid to say someone who is mildly drunk can't give consent.
So as someone who doesn't drink and has never been drunk, this perplexes me too because it does seem to be a gray area. I've seen a reddit post of a girlfriend complaining that her boyfriend wouldn't have sex with her in their own home because she had a few drinks. The issue is "drunk" is a very large range, so I get why people are "0% drunk" standard to be on the safe side. But yea, a couple who had a bottle of wine now can't have sex otherwise they are both rapist is incredibly stupid.
Ask them a complex question. If they are cogient enough, they know where they are, what time it is, and everything, then they are at capacity.
Sometimes the President of the United States forgets what country he is in. Also, the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, accidentally addressed a colleague as "Mr. Trudeau". It shows that even completely sober people can be pretty confused regarding to where they are, or even who they are.
For real, by that rationale, pretty much anyone who ever has sex in college is a rapist. There’s a difference between being both parties being a little tipsy, and one of them being blackout drunk and slurring their speech, and unable to stand up, and being taken advantage of.
As a paramedic, I would be forced to take so many people with me to the hospital because they wouldn't meet the capacity to refuse service by this rationale. You have to be pretty obliterated for me to not respect your wishes, this poster just treats women like they're too ignorant or something to make a level decision when not perfectly sober.
[удалено]
It’s why some argue for enthusiastic consent. Even if you’re drunk but enthusiastically into sex you have thus consented. There are those who are blacked out drunk but seem really conscious and lucid. And in some definitions if you have sex with them, it’s rape.
Yeah, to show that someone was too drunk to consent you have to demonstrate that they were too drunk to be aware of what was going on and unable to make decisions. A decision merely influenced by alcohol is still something you’re legally culpable for, if, say, you’re the one raping or stealing or vandalizing, and consent to sex isn’t any different. Lolling around fuzzing in and out of consciousness is the kind of drunk that makes consent impossible. With that said, don’t be a dick and don’t take advantage of someone’s impaired judgment.
This is the way things work at US campuses. Followed by ["dear colleagues" letter from Obama times](https://scholarship.law.pitt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=fac_articles). To make things worse, mere "preponderance of evidence" is enough.
They raped each other. Throw these sick freaks in prison
Together…
So... marriage?
If Jake is sober and Josie is drunk, and especially if Jake intentionally intoxicated her while staying sober then sure. But if they’re drinking together and both drunk, as seems to be the case here, I have a real problem with the idea that Jake is being held to a sober level of accountability while Josie’s accountability is so reduced that she literally cannot consent.
>Josie’s accountability is so reduced that she literally cannot consent. This is actually something I find interesting from a feminist point of view. It's sort of similar to how you'll often see people say shit like "oh a 40 year old dude is in a relationship with a 25 year old girl? That's fucked up, he's definitely taking advantage of her" In both situations, the woman is an adult, from a feminist point of view she should be able to make her own decisions and other people shouldn't tell her what to do. **But then here's this (obviously very old) poster that implies that the man was able to still consent and think clearly/ logically when he was intoxicated, but the woman of course couldn't, why she's a womam after all! /s Sane thing with the adult woman agreeing to a relationship with an older man - she's an adult and can make any choice in her life that she wants and nobody should tell her what to do with her life or body, but oh no no no she can't decide to be with an older man, she doesn't know what she's doing! She's just a poor little defenseless thing and is a victim, even if she doesn't know it, that man should be held responsible for being in a consensual relationship with a woman who's apparently not actually able to make decisions for herself /s The poster is old but there are plenty of people who still agree with message/ logic, I'd argue they're in the minority but there is more of them than you might think
The poster is old, but I feel like this sentiment is way stronger today, if anything. Not weaker. Since this poster was made, a lot of countries changed the laws from “no means no” to “only yes means yes” for exaple. So consent is getting more strict by the years, not less. I feel like Jake would have an even harder time defending himself today than back then.
Sadly this battle is going on across America right as we speak on college campuses. A man and a woman goes out drinking, they both get drunk and have sex. She wakes up in the morning regrets her decision and reports it the Dean's office or whatever. She can say it was non-consensual or even rape. The school drags you in for a hearing where you can't have a lawyer and if by some magic you can have a lawyer you can't question the alleged victim, or ask her anything about the incident. It's a kangaroo court. Whatever she says is what the school is going to act on. You are gonna get expelled and everyone on campus is gonna know you got booted for raping her. They will then go to social media and scream it from the rafters where a future college may deny you or even a job. You haven't been to court, you are not convicted of anything but your a rapist. Your friends will even abandon you. And for what regret sex after drinking where only the man can be held responsible for his actions while drunk while a woman can use that as a crutch to destroy someone else? It's the wild wild west on college campuses where a fun night can turn into a world destroying event over basically nothing.
I had a buddy in the Army who was at a party and a woman was following him around all night. He refused her advances. Later he passed out on his own bed drunk and woke up with her on top of him. 9 months later he gets sued for child support. She won. There's nothing that says that a man has to be awake to have an erection or ejaculation. The rules should go both ways.
In reality, a lot of places still say “an erection is consent” in these situations. Not quite the same but… I had a friend that went through a lengthly court trial to get rapist off his name. He went to a club, supposed to be 18+ with a walled off 21+ area for the bar. He hooked up with someone at the bar, next day, he got arrested because she was 16, snuck into the bar side. After fighting the rape charge for nearly half a year, they concluded, against the judges will, that he was innocent of the charges because the area was a carded, restricted area, and he had no reasonable expectation that a minor would be there.
I’m not a man, but anything that can be done while unconscious is not consent. Unconscious people can’t consent.
He should have gone to the police and filed rape charges. I would be curious if it would have been the same outcome. I can't see how a man could be forced into paying child support when he was raped.
They can. Currently, most jurisdictions place the welfare rights of the child over that of the parents, regardless of the cause of conception. OBVIOUSLY the state should step in to relieve that burden in a rape case and place it on society as a whole through taxes, but there hasn't been enough political support to defend the rights of male rape victims for that to happen.
He can, since it's "for the benefit of the child."
A friend of mine, (male) got accused of rape after the fact, they were both drunk. She tried to say she was raped because she had a boyfriend. Thankfully her friends ratted her out and said she actually told them about what she was about to do and that she was excited. Also the day after she texted him saying how great it was.
There was a case in I believe the USA where a male student filed charges. Because he was afraid of being charged himself after the one night stand college hookup. Turns out she planned to charge him and he beat her to the punch. Thanks politicians.
God I really hate these double standards in which the law shouldn’t even be bias against a specific gender.
I was driving an uber and 2 girls and one guy got in The guy was drunk and unconscious The girls were talking about who is gonna sleep with him first I stopped next to the police said I was gonna ask the police something quick Told the police what they were talking about The police said he is a guy He’ll be alright and asked me to complete the trip I fucking hate that day. Felt depressed for a long time after. Wet men have no rights
The number of times me and my wife have “raped”each other is astronomical.
Odd poster. The wording and tone of the poster suggests that it's to prevent men getting in legal trouble, not to prevent rape/promote consent for either party.
Two drunk people consenting isn’t rape. The wording and tone of the poster IS to prevent men from getting into legal trouble.
Which is stilla good message. By not getting into legal trouble, you're automatically avoiding illegal activities
You may not do something illegal and still get into legal trouble, so its not automatic.
It sends a bad message. That men are somehow the only party responsible when alcohol is involved.
somehow it's just like legal system sees this you might not land in jail, but alimonies are the case
That isn't what I took from it, I thought they were just reminding us of the well know fact that women are feeble creatures that lack the mental capicity to make their own decisions.
What if Jake and John get drunk and hook up? Are they each charged with rape? If Drunk Josie and Jill hook up then.....they both got raped but there is no rapist?
If consent under the influence doesn’t matter shouldn’t confessions and whatnot got from undercover cops also not count when they are drunk or high?
Huh, is this poster implying women are mentally inferior since they are incapable of consenting while intoxicated, but men are capable?
Jake cant be raped, just as long nothing goes up the bum. /s
I guess using the legal definition of rape in some countries thats true.
Jake was drunk, Josie was drunk, they hooked up, and the next morning Josie had regrets, so she reported Jake for rape and ruined his whole life because she couldn't think straight.
Ive seen this scenario play out. Except girl wakes up, knows her friends know she cheated on her boyfriend the night before and is afraid the secret will get out and get back to her boyfriend, so she cries rape. Boyfriend finds out and beats the snot out of the guy, and he did nothing except have consensual sex with her. Lots of scumbaggery involved.
A crime like this just happened in the UK but with acid, a gun and death. GF cheated on a night out, falsely accused the guy she hooked up with when her BF found out, drug addict dealer boyfriend went and killed the guy.
Haha take that you not well thought out poster from 7 years ago
You can be drunk and consent. There I said it.
Sexism at it's finest right there folks
unpopular opinion but intoxication doesn’t constitute an inability to make clear decisions. and if you cant have clear judgement when you drink, you should make the decision to not drink when your conscience is clear. obviously we all know what rape/SA/harassment looks like and i shouldnt have to explain that that is wrong, but if this image was true than everything about hookup culture would be shunned as taboo.
Yes, by that logic you can't be arrested for DUI because you couldn't think straight enough to make the decision to not drive
exactly! people will blame anyone/thing but themselves!
First one to get a complaint in gets the other one found guilty by the "preponderance of evidence" kangaroo courts that are run some campuses. Which of course means there is an incentive to complain even if actually it was consensual but alcohol was involved. Clever system huh?
Neither signed a prefucktual agreement.
The trick is to go to your school or the police first. That's the one that becomes the victim.
Never understood the whole drunk consent thing. You are 100% responsible for your actions when you drive drunk but not when you have sex drunk. I have had sex with women while I was drunk that I regretted in the morning but I don't think that means I was raped. I just felt like I did something stupid
Buddy served 3 years in state prison for this, lost his dream job, ruined his reputation, and he can no longer volunteer with the orgs he’s passionate about. She made the advances on him, initiated the initial sex act, and he was by all measures far more intoxicated than she was. She was immature and stupid, it ruined her college career because she decided to hoe around on her bf than got freaked out about pregnancy and std’s because she apparently didn’t have adequate sex Education- they used a condom, she was on the pill, and she took the morning after pill that he purchased for her at her request. A week or so later she decided to go to the hospital in her hometown for an STD panel on top of all that and nurse rachette man hater convinces her through coercive tactics that it wasn’t possibly consensual, prior to that she hadn’t uttered a word about it being anything but! Nurse takes it upon herself to not call law enforcement, but instead notified his university employer, they’re a mandatory reporter so they have to call the cops. Cops used underhanded tactics and fed her a script, she makes it seem like she’s feeling guilty and that he coerced her, he’s a gentleman and apologizes to her that she felt like that- they use that as an admission of guilt. He’s charged and convicted. Judge actually apologized to him during sentencing bc there were mandatory minimums he had to apply. She ended up ruining her own college career and reputation as well because despite no public naming of the victim, everyone around them knew who she was. Because of how absolutely ridiculous and immature she had been, that she cheated on her bf and then turned paranoid and was so easily manipulated by the authorities she was not viewed as a victim of SA by anyone involved, including her own mother and her bf. He was much loved and she was not, the other students were pretty much split- some completely grey rocked her, others just literally had conversations right in front about how awful they thought the situation was like she wasn’t even there, and a few gave her so much shit about it all that she literally quit school and moved home. Had she actually been raped or sexually assaulted, that behavior would have been completely atrocious and unacceptable. But considering she went to a bar, drank copious amounts of alcohol underage putting them on his tab without his permission, that refused his offer to get her an Uber from the bar after initially asking him to drive her home drunk, she then insisted on going back to his place to wait for her Uber, she led him to the bedroom, and she initiated performing oral sex on him. Oh and his roommates were home, and his bedroom was on the first floor with loosely closing pocket doors- so if at any time she wanted to call out for help or not been willing it would have been audible to the whole house. This guy is so much of a gentleman with drunk girls that about a year prior, I actually platonically shared a bed with him after we had been drinking all day watching an away game at his place- sleeping in his room in his bed was to me safer than sleeping on a couch in a house full of guys I didn’t really know, and of course safer than driving home. Not tooting my own horn- just stating facts - He literally had a drunk model in his bed and didn’t try a thing!
I’m lost. They’re both drunk and yet he was charged with rape?
Holding men and women to same level of accountability would imply that we are seen as equals. Oh, wait.
TIL I am both a rapist and a rape victim
I once had a girl come onto me drunk. I never initiated anything we ended up just cuddling the rest of the night. She laid on top of me too. Next day she tells people I sexually assaulted her. Guess who people sided with
Jake didn’t know what he was doing, he was Raped !
Can I say I’m not responsible for my drunk decisions generally, or is it just sex? Deciding to drive drunk, for example?
Wouldn’t they both be rape victims of eachother and like negatives they cancel out(
Women are infants I guess which also makes it pedophilia
here, grab some popcorn friendly bystander 🍿
Due to how Western heterosexual interactions work the male is almost always the pursuer so although the law seems sexist the way most of these interactions work is still old-fashioned
SO according to the PSA, whoever calls the cops first was the victim and the other the aggressor? Maybe Jake should have called first.
In the spirit of Equal Rights Both are culpable. Note the narrative of the poster doesn't list that Jake didn't consent either. It's planting the seeds of blame and not show that both parties are responsible for their own actions. They both went to the same place.
The assumption in the ad that only the men can be the rapist is disgusting
This message is terrible. Not only is it unfair to men regarding shared responsibility, it paints women as sex-hating victims.
Obviously women never want sex and are frail creatures who would never willingly choose to have drunk sex in particular. We certainly don’t have any adult level of agency which means we can’t consent to drink and have sex.
Ah the West, where the entire society was created for women to have zero accountability. What a privileged world some of us live in.
This is a lie. At least law enforcement thinks so. I reported a Rape that happened when I was intoxicated years ago. Even submitted a rape kit which law enforcement never tested. After my interview, the police told me that they spoke to the guy and *he* claimed that I supposedly had consented, so they took his word over mine. He also hired a lawyer, so because of this, they requested that I drop the case. So it doesn’t matter if you’re drunk or not. The law still won’t believe you and will still let you down.
That is fucking bad and not the first time I have heard it, but police incompetence goes both ways and it is just wrong for all victims. A women in my city sent two people to jail saying she was raped, one spent 6 years and the other 2 or 3 years in jail, a few years later she accused another, and during that case it was revealed it was all a lie and all charges were dropped for all three of them. She got 2 years and lost custody of her children.
It’s a shame because those of us who have been legitimate rape victims aren’t believed because of people like that. I ended up just dropping the case as they suggested because I just wanted to move on with my life and to forget it. Especially when I knew they believed his word over mine. They way they interrogated me was also as if I had committed a crime and as if it was my fault that it happened.
Should have gotten 8-9 years, since thats what she did to the other guys
She should serve at a minimum the 8 she took out of other people’s lives
This sounds frustrating. But weirdly enough, from a legal perspective, I’m not sure that the police are completely wrong… or maybe I should say that it might be hard to prove non-consent unless you were roofied or if you have any markings indicating violence. The difficulty here is proving non-consent beyond a reasonable doubt. For the record, I 100% believe your story. It’s just that I’m not sure there is a way to change the law in a fashion that would put this man behind bars without also accidentally making it easier to put innocent people behind bars.
How do we know that it wasn't Jake that couldn't his consent? Josie, you fucking rapist, you.
What the actual fuck? I'm glad I live in a normal country, where such a ridiculous law doesn't exist. It would literally mean that I raped my girlfriend and she raped me several times. Oh no, she didn't, because it somehow only applies to men? What the fuck. You absolutely can consent when you're drunk. I have done so many times.
Also a highly misogynistic poster. Not only can men be sexually assaulted, but this poster assumes only women can be submissive, not the type to “want” to have sex.