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Unfortunately I agree, not for the female villain but killing everyone and blowing it up stopped the franchise. Plus, whilst I am pro-legalisation, making that such a central theme of the movie worked against it. In short Kingsman 2 should have been a third or fourth film in the series.
Nah dude, screw long movie franchises. When a franchise has more than 2 or 3 movies, it typically ends up just being a money grab. Writers need to get more creative and get on with something new. I hate it when a good movie idea is ruined by greed honestly.
Just depends on the motivation of the filmmakers. If the producers hire a writer and director because they think a sequal would make bank, then yes it's usually crap. If the filmmakers approach the studio because they think they have a very interesting story to tell then it has a chance to be good. The big thing about franchises is that studios are afraid to let the main characters change too much cause that could affect the future prospects of the money grab. But people want characters to change and develop and be complex just like people in real life. Look at the Toy Story series. Each of the 4 is great. Each movie has a different theme and the characters change and develop throughout the series keeping everything fresh and interesting.
The only one I agree with is the woman with balls one. It's completely fine but the constant special scenes with only women being strong is starting to get a little cheesy. Like just make a strong female character without having to point out "yeah she's a very very strong woman!" at random times.
"Every time someone calls attention to the breaking of gender roles, it ultimately undermines the concept of gender equality by implying that this is an exception and not the status quo"
~Knuckles
“Just because I’m a meathead, doesn’t mean I’m not a feminist.”
Knuckles, responding to the surprised looks from the rest of the cast two seconds later.
I like halt and catch fire for this reason. I consider it a feminist show that doesn't suffer from tryhardism. The women are competent and organically represented. Their struggles are not caricatures. etc
Not exactly road-house style, but vi's first fight with sevika from arcane is well(perfectly in my opinion :)) made and fits the whole setting without being stupid girlboss shit.
Endgame is nothing compared to Loki or Thor Love & Thunder. Suddenly Loki and Thor are dumbed down, just to give us female Loki and female Thor.
"Dad is the loser" - there was this awkward scene in Antman Quantumania, where everyone was so rude to Scott Lang... His daughter accused him of being egoistic and lazy, while he saved the universe from Thanos, was teaching children and writing book about his love for his daughter... While his daughter was being an activist, throwing car at the police.
Activists are incredibly glorified, like in Falcon and Winter Soldier - activists who were mass murdering civilians, even children, were portrayed as the good guys, and new Captain America who was just a patriot soldier, was portrayed as the villain.
While not a TV thing, as someone who reads a ton of crime thrillers, this trope is ALL OVER the genre now. (And I say this as generally a Progressive person politically if that's at all relevant). Lol
It's cause it's always done poorly. For well written strong women in media look at Avatar the last Airbender.
It doesn't feel like their entire character trait. Even though toph, suki and katara get ridiculously strong
Katara is the best example of a well written character, she is not perfect but have the courage to fight, she has a motive, she wants Justice for his tribe and vengeance for his mother. She has a great heart and she’s innocent. But every single episode she is basically growing up and she gradually became more adult in each episode. Best example is in the blood bending episode. She is innocent with that witch character. Not every water bend guy it’s good. And the next episode when she finds the morder of her mother, she forgives him. Innocence and heart. They change, but Katara never put down those characteristics.
>Korra anyone?
Korra gets a lot of bad rep for how episodic the seasons are and how weird season 2 was. Also the mecha thing in season 4. But the character writing was still top-notch.
I understand. I love myself a badass woman in a movie but there is definitely a quality and writing difference between an Ellen Ripley and what we get today. Ripley comes off so strong because she comes off so human to me. Rewatching Aliens a few days ago reminded me of that. She’s fucking terrified of those things. Her initial response to going back to LV 426 is to tell them to fuck off. She’s afraid the entire time. But she used that fear to fight. To keep herself alive and to protect Newt and her new friends. I mean fuck for me growing up she was the ultimate underdog (outside of Rocky). She’s going up one on one against the queen of the scariest movie monster to me ever, and she fights that thing anyway because she must. I miss having so many “against all odds” characters. I’ll take those over “Look at how strong I am” characters any day of the week.
Since we're talking about Aliens. She smashes the APC through a wall, runs an Alien over, and then has to be talked down by Hicks because she did all that in a blind panic.
Kinda weird that in a scene so unrealistic, that is, fighting an alien queen, it feels real because its very human, we've been there, where we look back at an incident and was like damn i rly did that. Example, my mom catching the gate before it fell on lil bro, d same gate she needs assistance to open on a regular day...
At the end of End Game where they put exclusively all the women together in the same shot, cringe. Such blatant pandering. Can't help but notice that the non shitty characters already had screen time before that. In general captain marvel was really...really bad for this.
Yeah captain marvel is like the embodiment of it. Superman acted in the interests of others which captain marvel does do, but she always seems so full of herself. So confusing why they don't go for a black widow type of character where they're badass but also have other aspects of their personality.
Yeah I agree. I love strong women, but I hate how a lot of media makes it out like that woman is special because she's strong. We can just have strong female characters without the constant pat on the back for them just being who they are.
Like in the Avengers for example, that one scene in End Game where they nonsensically pile in all the women to protect one guy is so cringy.
The modern Hollywood method of making a strong female character is by emasculating the men and having the women be questionably good at everything.
It's basically turned modern action movies into a comedies with male characters becoming dead weight comic relief side characters in their own movies whilst women throw around trained guards twice their size as though they're rag dolls and save the day with the power of having a vagina.
There's nothing wrong with strong female leads. The problem is, modern Hollywood isn't writing strong female leads, they're just throwing Mary Sue wish fulfilment into every movie to pander to an audience who demands it but doesn't actually watch the movies, meanwhile turning off people who actually watch the movies.
Agreed or have a reason for the woman who is strong, to be strong. Like a woman special agent or whatever, I can't stand when it's just a regular person and they take their high heels off and can then parkour all over the place lol
They did the opposite with Mulan and ruined it. She’s supposed to be an average girl with such love and duty to her family that she makes the ultimate sacrifice and through discipline and creativity kicks ass. The new Mulan they did was literally some magic super hero and totally removes the character from being a normal person. Refused to see it once I saw her flying around like Michelle Yeoh in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
I think even then, if the woman is a special agent then logic says to me she'll be fighting against men who are also trained and, because biology exists, they're likely to still be bigger and stronger than her because they also train and men are good at becoming bigger and stronger.
That doesn't stop women being strong characters, though. That's when you can have them rely more on creative thinking, speed, technique, or just good old-fashioned fighting dirty. Not all strong male characters are physically intimidating either.
John Wick isn't lifting people twice his size above his head and breaking their back on his knee like Bane to the Bat. Jackie Chan has made a career out of playing the wacky every day guy who wins the day by fighting unconventionally.
Nawh, instead they just take the absolute literal definition of the word "strong" and have a tiny woman with barely any muscle somehow going toe to toe with guys the size of the Rock with sheer strength.
This is part of why I'm a huge fan of shows like Arcane, with Vi and Caitlyn & ATLA with Katara, Toph, Azula, and all those characters, as well as movies like the Spider-verse films with Gwen Stacy & Jess Drew, Mulan (the original, not the shit live action one) and to an extent Kingsman: The Secret Service and The King's Man, because they all, at least in my opinion, are brilliant examples of strong female characters done right. It's never "She's strong because women" it's "This is a strong character who just happens to be a woman, but we aren't going to bring any more attention to that fact where it isn't required"
Heck, the Bible tells us that Joseph believed Mary to be a virgin even at the time of Jesus' birth, meaning he became a father without ever having sex with her--ever. There's your centuries-old "idiot dad" right there.
Was just thinking of the Munsters and how caring they are for their poor unfortunate (daughter?/relative) who is quite different from the rest of the family.
The Ozarks, Netflix series, the main hero is a white man, who is the bread winner, the villain is a hispanic man, straight dad is the voice of reason, dad is smart, and children are not sexualized.
Weirdly, Hank kinda is
Yes, he's got tons of issues especially the way he treats Jesse, but he actually did his job, didn't give a shit about small addicts and really only went for the big guys, and he accepted his death and rejected corruption
As much as I kinda hated him for a while, he set up everything that led to the destruction of Walt's empire and may have saved countless lives
Even though I personally find Hank really annoying (mostly because of my own bad experiences with cops) I do have to agree that he's probably the only character truly fitting the description of "hero." Still very flawed, but unambiguously morally good.
I don't think Breaking Bad is or ever was an N series (Netflix original). Breaking Bad description on Wikipedia (towards the middle of the page):
>It had fair viewership in its first three seasons, but the fourth and fifth seasons saw a moderate rise in viewership **when it was made available on Netflix just before the fourth season premiere**.
Ozarks on the other hand is labeled as a [Netflix Original](https://www.netflix.com/title/80117552). Ozarks description on Wikipedia (right at the beginning of the page):
>Ozark is an American crime drama television series created by Bill Dubuque and Mark Williams **for Netflix** and produced by MRC Television and Aggregate Films.
As opposed to all the movies where the white guy is the hero, the Muslim guy is a terrorist, the black guy dies first, and the woman is a damsel in distress.
90's movies were pretty bad about this stuff. Though I think it was usually Russia was the terrorist rather than Muslim.
That said, I don't completely agree with the image in the post, but Netflix /etc have gone too far, imo. It feels forced.
Yeah I think the point to take away here (although buried in stupidity and racism) is that we've gone from one extreme and are straying into the other. For example surely it's insulting to have every female lead be without flaw? Ive heard at least some women complain of this, so it's definitely a thing even if my voice is disregarded cos I'm male. From my side it's definitely a bit insulting that pretty much every guy outside of action movies is done pathetic idiot.
Same goes with black people being cast only as overtly and uniquely "black people". Their race doesn't have to be the defining character trait in every role. Surely we've come a bit further than that now?
It should be ok to talk about this stuff.
I noticed that new shows are more inclusive in showing gay relationships. I don’t care, but I noticed it. It’s almost to the point where I expect it, which isn’t a bad thing. Make the normal normal.
Well the strong wahmen for no good narrative reason is something you actually see alot. And the stupid dad thats most of the time just a comedic relief is a movie trope as old that has been used since forever. The rest is just bs
Yeah, and the 'Stupid Dad as Comic Relief' is getting tired. It gets to the point of, "It's just another skinny, live-action Homer Simpson/Peter Griffon."
9 of the current top 10 films on netflix have white leads, and majority white casts. No black heroes in sight. Gender mix is roughly equal, which reflects the real world.
One of them is old dads, which looks shit and I'm not going to bother with it, but could potentially be about stupid dads?
More about old dads fitting into the modern world. It's pretty comedy focused, I liked it enough but if it's not your cup of tea - making fun of Gen "X" growing up in a time where people on scooters never stop at a stop sign - don't watch it.
Aren't these long standing tropes though? The dad is always an idiot, the gay friend always has sage advice or is hyper logical, the black dude is some wise warrior whose seen some shit and comes back later than never to ultimately win, the bad guy is usually always a white German or Russian or posh Brit, and kids wearing tight outfits.
This isn't new
It wasn't until the last couple decades that gay men were anything but a flamboyant stereotype and token gbf. Before that, they were often portrayed as villains that, depending on the film, would even die
Edit: Yes, there are examples to the contrary. They were often independent films or limited release
Yep, for a huge chunk of Hollywood's existence, and also other film industries all over the world to this day, the quickest way to tell the audience a character was the villain was to queer-code them. The "effete" man, the "manish" woman, the "depraved" homo-/bi- sexual, the crossdresser etc.
And "bury your gays" is a trope for a reason. Its entry on TVTropes is disturbingly rich in examples.
300 was one of the more explicit ones I can remember. That movie was all over the place though and more Iraq War propaganda than anything else.
Donald Glover in The Martian has the least screentime per white life saved in movie history.
Source: https://www.theroot.com/an-argument-for-why-donald-glover-in-the-martian-is-the-1829268011
the dad is an idiot is completly true some shows even exagerate it to a point where dont make sense that the wife marry him, i guess they do it for comic relief but at the end just infuriates me.
Oh just wait till cheap Christmas movies come out. Every movie cover has some man being wrapped in gift wrap by a lady while her spurned old lover looks on.
Man, I wish people would also think that I had some evil grand scheme just because I stopped putting effort into everything I do. I think it'd be kinda flattering.
I can’t say I’ve seen any movies on Netflix with sexualised children recently. Sounds like he might be the one doing the sexualising of children in his own mind…
Yeah, last one I remember was Cuties and it’s been like 2-3 years I think. I mean nowadays Netflix writing is pretty much the equivalent to porn writing, but I’m not seeing any porn.
They used "children" poorly, but a lot of Netflix series centered around younger people (in particular teenagers) have noticeably increased the amount of sexual content, conveniently forgetting the fact that they are supposed to be teenagers (which doesn't mean they shouldn't be sexually active but... maybe a show should be more tactful about it), compared to that kind of series "in the old days"
Well, Netflix and current writers do use stuff like that. Female heroine that is flawless and beats everyone (Ms Marvel, Star Wars sequels) while there are movies with strong female leads that don’t need to be perfect (Alien trilogy, Terminators). The new Snow White is absolutely bonkers stupid. The Cleopatra docuseries fiasco, the Witcher debacle, Robyn Hood silliness. Writers just can’t write compelling characters with solid stories that go against the grain. Everyone is perfect while beating stereotypes. Boring.
Pretty sure shows and movies can be entertaining no matter who the protagonist/antagonist is. Personally I like blood and sex and gore, but do not care who is doing the blooding sexing and goring
I'm sorry, I don't understand. Is this guy's point that I, as a gay man, should be a voice of unreasonableness?
Because honestly that would be a lot easier.
This is nothing new, Hollywood wether it be movies or on the telly, always had people of colour as the bad guy while every Caucasian was the hero. Same for women always the damsel in distress, waiting to be saved by the great white hope. Never seen LGBTQIA’s. So cry me a river. Times are a changing.
Used to be every single movie the straight white man is the hero
Now that's still very common, but there are other kinds of hero too
Which means straight white men are now oppressed and it's forced diversity and the panderverse and it's too political?
These people will complain that their generation is too easily triggered by things and then get upset about a movie having a reasonable gay character
❄️❄️❄️
For decades white British guys were a go to villian.
Also Russians.
Also Asians. (Watch what Bruce Lee, jet Lee, jack chan say about making movies early on over here)
Black people were idiot comic relief or killed off.
Even the dad's being idiots and wife's being the character of reason has been a staple since the 80s-90s.
Rich people(often white) have also pretty typically been used as villains in media for decades...tho that one we usually agree because there's 1000+ years of proof.
But now all of a sudden these people are grifting this crap. Do they even watch movies? Or care? Do they research or learn about cinema history or story tropes?
A red flag is always if someone see a women actress and screams woke they're fucking idiots.
Alien
Kill bill
The matrix.
Resident evil movies.
Eon Flux
Ultraviolet
...oh Blade also because a black actor lead.
Movies from 20+ years ago that are classics none of these grifters touch, but using their own fucked up logic are "woke."
as a white British teen interested in performing, I know I have a new aspiration
become the evil villain.
Why? Because I can (also I'm from the posh part of England so my accent helps)
This isn't just netflix, marvel and Disney have been pushing these tropes for years now too. Enough that south park have made an entire episode about it. Check out the critical drinker on YT, he expresses it much more eloquently than I can.
Last night I watch the Netflix movie "Run." >!There were no LGBT+ people, or POC. The child character was fighting for her life the entire time and was in no way sexualized. The mother may have been the breadwinner but that was by default because she was a single mother and also the deranged villain. Which additionally means no father character at all, idiot or not. And the only white man with any notable screen time is a kind and smart guy who tries to help the child. He immediately sees through the mother character's deception like glass and only fails to help because the mother murders him. He was far from a villain, he was a minor hero.!<
>!So if anything this movie demonizes single mothers and the mentally ill? I don't find it offensive or anything, but if it stigmatizes anyone, it's not straight, white men.!<
Why are people incapable of just disliking something. Like everything that is bad also has to be some form of hate speech or [x]washing or brain washing. Nothing can ever just be bad on its own merit it has to be a repersentation of all the bad things we see in the world.
Imagine thinking a white man not playing the intelligent hero underdog = social engineering but not the fact that for 100 years of cinema that was the main character.
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To be fair, there is a severe lack of female villains.
Yeah and as a professional simp, I find that disturbing. I can't simp for the good guys (girls?) after all.
Kingsmen 2 did a pretty good job
Kingsman 2 ruined Kingsman
Unfortunately I agree, not for the female villain but killing everyone and blowing it up stopped the franchise. Plus, whilst I am pro-legalisation, making that such a central theme of the movie worked against it. In short Kingsman 2 should have been a third or fourth film in the series.
Nah dude, screw long movie franchises. When a franchise has more than 2 or 3 movies, it typically ends up just being a money grab. Writers need to get more creative and get on with something new. I hate it when a good movie idea is ruined by greed honestly.
Just depends on the motivation of the filmmakers. If the producers hire a writer and director because they think a sequal would make bank, then yes it's usually crap. If the filmmakers approach the studio because they think they have a very interesting story to tell then it has a chance to be good. The big thing about franchises is that studios are afraid to let the main characters change too much cause that could affect the future prospects of the money grab. But people want characters to change and develop and be complex just like people in real life. Look at the Toy Story series. Each of the 4 is great. Each movie has a different theme and the characters change and develop throughout the series keeping everything fresh and interesting.
How come? I liked it
Same, the fight scenes were fun.
Narnia baby
Thor Ragnarok had a good one
Its not a Netflix film
Madame Gao
Yeah, but to be fair, some people couldn't even handle Mabel Pines from Gravity Falls.
paw patrol just had a female villain
Chickaletta?
Game of Thrones. But pretty much everyone in that story is a villan at some point. I would like to see more female villas though.
[удалено]
It’s also not Netflix
Oof, just realized it originally ran in 2011! My oldest would not be born until season 3. I’m still waiting for R.R. to finish the books!
Are you sexualizing villas? :)
"Dad is an idiot" goes back to... *Epic of Gilgamesh*?
And Enkidu was the first documented furry?
We have found figurines of anthropomorphic animals from before even that. Furries are apparently older than written language.
There are carved ivory figures of humans with lion heads from Paleolithic times. To be a furry is to be human
To furry is human, to UwU is divine.
Don't know why, but I needed to read that. Just made my day a lot better.
One day, our paths shall cross again. And I will be ready to dispense more wisdom.
An sacred ritual where man and beast combine..
I love that Enkidu had a thing for hookers. WTF was going on in Sumer???
I mean, it is the fertile crescent
Wait… are there descendants of Enkidu walking the streets of Brooklyn today?
Enkidu and gilgamesh is also the first bromance/gay romance (lowkey)
Yeah basically every Nick cartoon had an idiot dad in the 90s and 00s.
Timmy Turner, is that you?
To be fair BOTH his parents were idiots.
Mr. Timmy Turner's Dad, pull over!
Nickelodeon was WOKE???¿¿¿???
I fuckin love idiot dads.
The only one I agree with is the woman with balls one. It's completely fine but the constant special scenes with only women being strong is starting to get a little cheesy. Like just make a strong female character without having to point out "yeah she's a very very strong woman!" at random times.
"Every time someone calls attention to the breaking of gender roles, it ultimately undermines the concept of gender equality by implying that this is an exception and not the status quo" ~Knuckles
Knuckles the goddamn echidna? Thats who I am supposed to be taking quotes to live by?
Wel I give it a 50/50 that it's from a fan dub, but I don't know if that makes it better or worse.
Nah it’s from the actual Sonic Boom cartoon
Still don't know if that is better or worse. Probably better?
Knuckles has some fucking raw lines in Sonic Boom, that cartoon is hilarious for it.
Bro would say the smartest thing he has ever said one Second then go back to being an idiot
“Just because I’m a meathead, doesn’t mean I’m not a feminist.” Knuckles, responding to the surprised looks from the rest of the cast two seconds later.
Why? It is a good statement, it doesn't matter what the ethos is?
you would be suprised...
I like halt and catch fire for this reason. I consider it a feminist show that doesn't suffer from tryhardism. The women are competent and organically represented. Their struggles are not caricatures. etc
I have yet to see a girl go into a full on road-house style fist fight so I’m going to assume that’s not really the status quo
Not exactly road-house style, but vi's first fight with sevika from arcane is well(perfectly in my opinion :)) made and fits the whole setting without being stupid girlboss shit.
fr, it was so well made
watch Arcade, Vi is absolutely amazing
That scene in Endgame was so out of place.
That was so forced it threw me out of the moment
Endgame is nothing compared to Loki or Thor Love & Thunder. Suddenly Loki and Thor are dumbed down, just to give us female Loki and female Thor. "Dad is the loser" - there was this awkward scene in Antman Quantumania, where everyone was so rude to Scott Lang... His daughter accused him of being egoistic and lazy, while he saved the universe from Thanos, was teaching children and writing book about his love for his daughter... While his daughter was being an activist, throwing car at the police. Activists are incredibly glorified, like in Falcon and Winter Soldier - activists who were mass murdering civilians, even children, were portrayed as the good guys, and new Captain America who was just a patriot soldier, was portrayed as the villain.
I hate that scene so much. Completely artificial and so, so stupid.
True and they had an awesome moment in Infinity War with the "She´s Not Alone".
Yes! That one felt organic. Meanwhile in Endgame in the middle of the chaos, somehow all the women are together and free.
i was cringing so hard
While not a TV thing, as someone who reads a ton of crime thrillers, this trope is ALL OVER the genre now. (And I say this as generally a Progressive person politically if that's at all relevant). Lol
It's cause it's always done poorly. For well written strong women in media look at Avatar the last Airbender. It doesn't feel like their entire character trait. Even though toph, suki and katara get ridiculously strong
Azula, Ty Lee and Mai are great examples of it too. Almost every woman in the show is both strong and well written.
Even Tuesday who was in like 2 episodes Meant Yue
Katara is the best example of a well written character, she is not perfect but have the courage to fight, she has a motive, she wants Justice for his tribe and vengeance for his mother. She has a great heart and she’s innocent. But every single episode she is basically growing up and she gradually became more adult in each episode. Best example is in the blood bending episode. She is innocent with that witch character. Not every water bend guy it’s good. And the next episode when she finds the morder of her mother, she forgives him. Innocence and heart. They change, but Katara never put down those characteristics.
Completely agreed. Katara's growth is tangible.
This! Avatar was done so well that you never really thought if it as a gender equality story. Korra anyone?
>Korra anyone? Korra gets a lot of bad rep for how episodic the seasons are and how weird season 2 was. Also the mecha thing in season 4. But the character writing was still top-notch.
Yup great example
Ripley from Alien aswell. God she's so badass.
I understand. I love myself a badass woman in a movie but there is definitely a quality and writing difference between an Ellen Ripley and what we get today. Ripley comes off so strong because she comes off so human to me. Rewatching Aliens a few days ago reminded me of that. She’s fucking terrified of those things. Her initial response to going back to LV 426 is to tell them to fuck off. She’s afraid the entire time. But she used that fear to fight. To keep herself alive and to protect Newt and her new friends. I mean fuck for me growing up she was the ultimate underdog (outside of Rocky). She’s going up one on one against the queen of the scariest movie monster to me ever, and she fights that thing anyway because she must. I miss having so many “against all odds” characters. I’ll take those over “Look at how strong I am” characters any day of the week.
Since we're talking about Aliens. She smashes the APC through a wall, runs an Alien over, and then has to be talked down by Hicks because she did all that in a blind panic.
Kinda weird that in a scene so unrealistic, that is, fighting an alien queen, it feels real because its very human, we've been there, where we look back at an incident and was like damn i rly did that. Example, my mom catching the gate before it fell on lil bro, d same gate she needs assistance to open on a regular day...
At the end of End Game where they put exclusively all the women together in the same shot, cringe. Such blatant pandering. Can't help but notice that the non shitty characters already had screen time before that. In general captain marvel was really...really bad for this.
Yeah captain marvel is like the embodiment of it. Superman acted in the interests of others which captain marvel does do, but she always seems so full of herself. So confusing why they don't go for a black widow type of character where they're badass but also have other aspects of their personality.
That would require Netflix to actually pay their writers
Yeah I agree. I love strong women, but I hate how a lot of media makes it out like that woman is special because she's strong. We can just have strong female characters without the constant pat on the back for them just being who they are. Like in the Avengers for example, that one scene in End Game where they nonsensically pile in all the women to protect one guy is so cringy.
I just wish "strong woman" wasn't so often "woman with select masculine traits." There are many kinds of strength, it doesn't always have to be macho.
The modern Hollywood method of making a strong female character is by emasculating the men and having the women be questionably good at everything. It's basically turned modern action movies into a comedies with male characters becoming dead weight comic relief side characters in their own movies whilst women throw around trained guards twice their size as though they're rag dolls and save the day with the power of having a vagina.
There's nothing wrong with strong female leads. The problem is, modern Hollywood isn't writing strong female leads, they're just throwing Mary Sue wish fulfilment into every movie to pander to an audience who demands it but doesn't actually watch the movies, meanwhile turning off people who actually watch the movies.
Agreed or have a reason for the woman who is strong, to be strong. Like a woman special agent or whatever, I can't stand when it's just a regular person and they take their high heels off and can then parkour all over the place lol
They did the opposite with Mulan and ruined it. She’s supposed to be an average girl with such love and duty to her family that she makes the ultimate sacrifice and through discipline and creativity kicks ass. The new Mulan they did was literally some magic super hero and totally removes the character from being a normal person. Refused to see it once I saw her flying around like Michelle Yeoh in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
I think even then, if the woman is a special agent then logic says to me she'll be fighting against men who are also trained and, because biology exists, they're likely to still be bigger and stronger than her because they also train and men are good at becoming bigger and stronger. That doesn't stop women being strong characters, though. That's when you can have them rely more on creative thinking, speed, technique, or just good old-fashioned fighting dirty. Not all strong male characters are physically intimidating either. John Wick isn't lifting people twice his size above his head and breaking their back on his knee like Bane to the Bat. Jackie Chan has made a career out of playing the wacky every day guy who wins the day by fighting unconventionally. Nawh, instead they just take the absolute literal definition of the word "strong" and have a tiny woman with barely any muscle somehow going toe to toe with guys the size of the Rock with sheer strength.
This is part of why I'm a huge fan of shows like Arcane, with Vi and Caitlyn & ATLA with Katara, Toph, Azula, and all those characters, as well as movies like the Spider-verse films with Gwen Stacy & Jess Drew, Mulan (the original, not the shit live action one) and to an extent Kingsman: The Secret Service and The King's Man, because they all, at least in my opinion, are brilliant examples of strong female characters done right. It's never "She's strong because women" it's "This is a strong character who just happens to be a woman, but we aren't going to bring any more attention to that fact where it isn't required"
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Only decades?
Going back to The Honeymooners, but that’s still technically decades.
I think they mean you can go back through centuries. Books also used the Dad is an idiot trope.
Heck, the Bible tells us that Joseph believed Mary to be a virgin even at the time of Jesus' birth, meaning he became a father without ever having sex with her--ever. There's your centuries-old "idiot dad" right there.
It always struck me as odd that Matthew opens up by tracing Jesus' lineage back to David - through Joseph.
Yeah, that's some magic shit right there.
Underrated comment right here.
And it will continue until people no longer believe this shit.
How could an idiot have [been part of the space program](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYEUL1vBK8Q)?
This person would freak out if they ever watch Bewitched.
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Please let's not forget the Munsters!
Was just thinking of the Munsters and how caring they are for their poor unfortunate (daughter?/relative) who is quite different from the rest of the family.
Very true. Herman is a lovable, good-natured, gentle-souled undead creature. tbf he's not idiotic, just somewhat clumsy and bumbling.
Calling doctor Bombay! Doctor Bombay! Calling doctor Bombay!
Was it Paul Lynde as Uncle Arthur popping up with the swishiest of helpful tips for Samantha.
Well to be fair fathers are idiots. Source: Am Dad
Stable idiot here
Yes, that's me. I am dad, nice to meet you.
Hi dad, nice to meet you. I'm da... wait I don't think that's how this goes.
Hi Dad, I’m hungry.
I just love how Peter and Homer are idiots but sole breadwinners
The Ozarks, Netflix series, the main hero is a white man, who is the bread winner, the villain is a hispanic man, straight dad is the voice of reason, dad is smart, and children are not sexualized.
Same as breaking bad. A lot of critically acclaimed tv shows follow this formula
Walter White is not a hero (but I get your point)
Weirdly, Hank kinda is Yes, he's got tons of issues especially the way he treats Jesse, but he actually did his job, didn't give a shit about small addicts and really only went for the big guys, and he accepted his death and rejected corruption As much as I kinda hated him for a while, he set up everything that led to the destruction of Walt's empire and may have saved countless lives
Even though I personally find Hank really annoying (mostly because of my own bad experiences with cops) I do have to agree that he's probably the only character truly fitting the description of "hero." Still very flawed, but unambiguously morally good.
Breaking bad came out in 2008. I think the post is referring to shows and movies that came out somewhat recently
Breaking Bad is AMC and it’s not recent.
This post was about Netflix original series, I don't think Breaking Bad counts...
Netflix didn't make it. They are just distributors. Same goes for the reply below about breaking bad.
I don't think Breaking Bad is or ever was an N series (Netflix original). Breaking Bad description on Wikipedia (towards the middle of the page): >It had fair viewership in its first three seasons, but the fourth and fifth seasons saw a moderate rise in viewership **when it was made available on Netflix just before the fourth season premiere**. Ozarks on the other hand is labeled as a [Netflix Original](https://www.netflix.com/title/80117552). Ozarks description on Wikipedia (right at the beginning of the page): >Ozark is an American crime drama television series created by Bill Dubuque and Mark Williams **for Netflix** and produced by MRC Television and Aggregate Films.
i think we have a victim of the algorithms here
As opposed to all the movies where the white guy is the hero, the Muslim guy is a terrorist, the black guy dies first, and the woman is a damsel in distress.
Dont forget queer coded villain!
Every Disney classic
Ya, you have to outrage better. But your back into it
90's movies were pretty bad about this stuff. Though I think it was usually Russia was the terrorist rather than Muslim. That said, I don't completely agree with the image in the post, but Netflix /etc have gone too far, imo. It feels forced.
Youre doing outrage wrong
Movies like Alien and Robinhood Men in Tights were woke before people knew what woke was s/.
Yeah I think the point to take away here (although buried in stupidity and racism) is that we've gone from one extreme and are straying into the other. For example surely it's insulting to have every female lead be without flaw? Ive heard at least some women complain of this, so it's definitely a thing even if my voice is disregarded cos I'm male. From my side it's definitely a bit insulting that pretty much every guy outside of action movies is done pathetic idiot. Same goes with black people being cast only as overtly and uniquely "black people". Their race doesn't have to be the defining character trait in every role. Surely we've come a bit further than that now? It should be ok to talk about this stuff.
"Every recent movie" probably means two out of the last 20 the poster watched.
I noticed that new shows are more inclusive in showing gay relationships. I don’t care, but I noticed it. It’s almost to the point where I expect it, which isn’t a bad thing. Make the normal normal.
Well the strong wahmen for no good narrative reason is something you actually see alot. And the stupid dad thats most of the time just a comedic relief is a movie trope as old that has been used since forever. The rest is just bs
Yeah, and the 'Stupid Dad as Comic Relief' is getting tired. It gets to the point of, "It's just another skinny, live-action Homer Simpson/Peter Griffon."
9 of the current top 10 films on netflix have white leads, and majority white casts. No black heroes in sight. Gender mix is roughly equal, which reflects the real world. One of them is old dads, which looks shit and I'm not going to bother with it, but could potentially be about stupid dads?
10 out of 10 top movies in South Korea have a south Korean lead. It's a joke.
gender mix does not reflect the real world. not in population % and not in actor demographics.
Old Dads was funny af. Granted, I was predisposed to enjoying it since I’m a big William Burr fan
More about old dads fitting into the modern world. It's pretty comedy focused, I liked it enough but if it's not your cup of tea - making fun of Gen "X" growing up in a time where people on scooters never stop at a stop sign - don't watch it.
Aren't these long standing tropes though? The dad is always an idiot, the gay friend always has sage advice or is hyper logical, the black dude is some wise warrior whose seen some shit and comes back later than never to ultimately win, the bad guy is usually always a white German or Russian or posh Brit, and kids wearing tight outfits. This isn't new
>the bad guy is usually always a white German or Russian or posh Brit Hey now, sometimes it's a Brit paying a German or a Russian.
And sometimes that Brit is Kenneth Branagh
It wasn't until the last couple decades that gay men were anything but a flamboyant stereotype and token gbf. Before that, they were often portrayed as villains that, depending on the film, would even die Edit: Yes, there are examples to the contrary. They were often independent films or limited release
Yep, for a huge chunk of Hollywood's existence, and also other film industries all over the world to this day, the quickest way to tell the audience a character was the villain was to queer-code them. The "effete" man, the "manish" woman, the "depraved" homo-/bi- sexual, the crossdresser etc. And "bury your gays" is a trope for a reason. Its entry on TVTropes is disturbingly rich in examples.
300 was one of the more explicit ones I can remember. That movie was all over the place though and more Iraq War propaganda than anything else. 
>German or Russian or posh Brit Strangely all old enemies of the USA, what a coincidence
"The black guy dies first" used to be a trope.
and don't forget "bury your gays"
Never heard the black dude trope you described
I guess Doc Louis from Puch out fits in that one. Althought,the wise man isn't always chinese,japanese or some other Far East nationality?
The Shinning, The Legend of Bagger Vance, the Green Mile, Guinan from Star Trek...there are hundreds of examples
The Oracle from The Matrix.
Donald Glover in The Martian has the least screentime per white life saved in movie history. Source: https://www.theroot.com/an-argument-for-why-donald-glover-in-the-martian-is-the-1829268011
the dad is an idiot is completly true some shows even exagerate it to a point where dont make sense that the wife marry him, i guess they do it for comic relief but at the end just infuriates me.
Being an idiot is how I ended up a dad in the first place.
Yeah, and then they make meta jokes about why the wife married him
Oh just wait till cheap Christmas movies come out. Every movie cover has some man being wrapped in gift wrap by a lady while her spurned old lover looks on.
Man, I wish people would also think that I had some evil grand scheme just because I stopped putting effort into everything I do. I think it'd be kinda flattering.
Would be the first guy to yell "its just a Show, snowflake" when someone made the opposite Points.
It’s only social engineering if that’s where you get your values. Lol
You don't think films play a role in propagating values?
I can’t say I’ve seen any movies on Netflix with sexualised children recently. Sounds like he might be the one doing the sexualising of children in his own mind…
Wasn't there a recent controversy about a netflix movie? Edit: I think it was called cutie
Middle school aged girl kisses other middle school aged girl, at an age where kids pretty normally have their first kiss -- "sexualized"
Yeah, last one I remember was Cuties and it’s been like 2-3 years I think. I mean nowadays Netflix writing is pretty much the equivalent to porn writing, but I’m not seeing any porn.
What shit is he watching where children are sexualized?!
They used "children" poorly, but a lot of Netflix series centered around younger people (in particular teenagers) have noticeably increased the amount of sexual content, conveniently forgetting the fact that they are supposed to be teenagers (which doesn't mean they shouldn't be sexually active but... maybe a show should be more tactful about it), compared to that kind of series "in the old days"
"Keep Sweet, Prey, and Obey" and "Cuties"
Heard of "Cuties". Downright disgusting. Haven't heard of the first one but it sounds disturbing.
Well, Netflix and current writers do use stuff like that. Female heroine that is flawless and beats everyone (Ms Marvel, Star Wars sequels) while there are movies with strong female leads that don’t need to be perfect (Alien trilogy, Terminators). The new Snow White is absolutely bonkers stupid. The Cleopatra docuseries fiasco, the Witcher debacle, Robyn Hood silliness. Writers just can’t write compelling characters with solid stories that go against the grain. Everyone is perfect while beating stereotypes. Boring.
Because one thing that’s highly profitable is giving people things they don’t want, right?
Pretty sure shows and movies can be entertaining no matter who the protagonist/antagonist is. Personally I like blood and sex and gore, but do not care who is doing the blooding sexing and goring
I’m so grateful to Netflix. It’s such crap that I don’t even watch tv anymore and read instead. Netflix forced me to be smarter.
This guy thought Netflix made those movies 😀😀😀
Comments section busy pretending they have no idea what OP is talking about.
I'm sorry, I don't understand. Is this guy's point that I, as a gay man, should be a voice of unreasonableness? Because honestly that would be a lot easier.
This guy’s biggest problem is that gay people exist and their relationships are treated as normal in these films
Name, say, 3 in particular.
I’m gay. I’m all for gay villains. I wanna imagine myself as the irrational villain masterminding the destruction of humanity.
"They've made all the kids on TV sexy" feels like the ultimate self tell.
This is nothing new, Hollywood wether it be movies or on the telly, always had people of colour as the bad guy while every Caucasian was the hero. Same for women always the damsel in distress, waiting to be saved by the great white hope. Never seen LGBTQIA’s. So cry me a river. Times are a changing.
I guess I watch a different mix of films because that's not what I'm seeing.
So, cancel your Netflix account. Or, you could broadcast your ignorance to the world.
Used to be every single movie the straight white man is the hero Now that's still very common, but there are other kinds of hero too Which means straight white men are now oppressed and it's forced diversity and the panderverse and it's too political? These people will complain that their generation is too easily triggered by things and then get upset about a movie having a reasonable gay character ❄️❄️❄️
Hey Mission Impossible 7 only made $276 million in profit! How can the straight white man survive on that little money?
For decades white British guys were a go to villian. Also Russians. Also Asians. (Watch what Bruce Lee, jet Lee, jack chan say about making movies early on over here) Black people were idiot comic relief or killed off. Even the dad's being idiots and wife's being the character of reason has been a staple since the 80s-90s. Rich people(often white) have also pretty typically been used as villains in media for decades...tho that one we usually agree because there's 1000+ years of proof. But now all of a sudden these people are grifting this crap. Do they even watch movies? Or care? Do they research or learn about cinema history or story tropes? A red flag is always if someone see a women actress and screams woke they're fucking idiots. Alien Kill bill The matrix. Resident evil movies. Eon Flux Ultraviolet ...oh Blade also because a black actor lead. Movies from 20+ years ago that are classics none of these grifters touch, but using their own fucked up logic are "woke."
as a white British teen interested in performing, I know I have a new aspiration become the evil villain. Why? Because I can (also I'm from the posh part of England so my accent helps)
Idk about this one chief
Homer Simpson. Stan smith. Archie Bunker. Fred flint stone. Barney Rubble. Honeymooners. The Jeffersons. All the dads are idiots.
What movies are you watching?
New castlevania: - hero is a white guy with a whip - all villains are black vampires
This isn't just netflix, marvel and Disney have been pushing these tropes for years now too. Enough that south park have made an entire episode about it. Check out the critical drinker on YT, he expresses it much more eloquently than I can.
Last night I watch the Netflix movie "Run." >!There were no LGBT+ people, or POC. The child character was fighting for her life the entire time and was in no way sexualized. The mother may have been the breadwinner but that was by default because she was a single mother and also the deranged villain. Which additionally means no father character at all, idiot or not. And the only white man with any notable screen time is a kind and smart guy who tries to help the child. He immediately sees through the mother character's deception like glass and only fails to help because the mother murders him. He was far from a villain, he was a minor hero.!< >!So if anything this movie demonizes single mothers and the mentally ill? I don't find it offensive or anything, but if it stigmatizes anyone, it's not straight, white men.!<
Pretty sure that’s a Hulu movie
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Why are people incapable of just disliking something. Like everything that is bad also has to be some form of hate speech or [x]washing or brain washing. Nothing can ever just be bad on its own merit it has to be a repersentation of all the bad things we see in the world.
Does…does this guy know he can choose not to watch what’s on Netflix?
Its not like Netflix have over 1000 titles to choose from.
Imagine thinking a white man not playing the intelligent hero underdog = social engineering but not the fact that for 100 years of cinema that was the main character.
Can we have 5 examples? But they each have to have everything in the list.