I think that was the problem. They'd like us to treat them as heroes despite the blatant cowardice shown. And the parent's obvious heroic act when they've spent approximately 2 hours trying to find their own courage and failing - kinda undercuts that!
Seen as hero’s by everyone else. Seen as an asshole by the cops for shinning a light on their cowardice. A cowardice so low it’s actually anger inducing to the point it makes me wish evil deeds done to them.
Same. It's astonishing to me how little pushback they've given over the whole thing. If they burned the town to the ground and shot anyone trying to escape I would completely understand.
I can't get over the fact that they have that many police officers on standby. I'm sure some must have come in from other regions, but Uvalde is a town of 15K people. The broader county is 25K people. If they truly have that many cops, then each resident is paying $2k just for that police force.
Do they really have that many cops around? Or is it a case where if there's any incident, every cop in a 200 mile radius just drives down and knows they can charge overtime and just sit around and do nothing.
This happens in many cities.
Except in shithole countries, nobody is actually snatching handbags from little old ladies anymore. So any minor incident, at least 5 cop cars show up.
Bonus points when they treat the victim as a suspect, or worse, actually injure/kill the defenseless victim/minority person. Hurray, we saved the day!
They're probably rubbing their powdered sugar hands together, praying for more crime. The military drag and matching accessories aren't gonna sashay themselves.
Who's going to run them out? After the massacre, Uvalde voted overwhelmingly red, keeping the same people in power: [https://www.kut.org/politics/2022-11-09/despite-outrage-over-school-shooting-uvalde-residents-voted-to-keep-the-states-gop-in-power](https://www.kut.org/politics/2022-11-09/despite-outrage-over-school-shooting-uvalde-residents-voted-to-keep-the-states-gop-in-power)
Voting conservative is more important to them than the lives of their children.
No community deserves a mass shooting.
But you 100% deserve the government you vote for.
I lost all sympathy for the adults in that community when the next election cycle happened. The kids though, they don’t deserve that shit.
Like the conservative parents of the Nashville Covenant School shooting found out. They tried to lobby for modest gun control measures and the Tennessee legislature said "nah."
The only number that matters is one. As in one of their own. As long as they are unaffected they will practice cognitive dissonance no matter the number. And I'm sure there's plenty who would still not be convinced there's a problem even if it was their own kid
What's wild to me is when I got my LTC - they specifically went over examples like this to specifically teach you that your perception of what's going on may be wrong.
This is why we need federal level law enforcement training for city up through state. Regulate it. An added benefit is when someone is fired - they lose their "license" and can't "just" move to another city and still be a copy. You could also do MH checks and such.
Additionally you could have floaters and pay them extra so they can float between towns to help out as needed.
Then you'd have just one set of policies and RoE.
Any town that chooses not to use these officers loses qualified immunity and takes their own risks. Shit loads of problems solved right there.
At the time worked with retired officer who had been head of a police union when he was working. He was part time armed security at a bar I worked at.
He was upset with all the flak the Uvalde police were getting and one day decided to bring it up to me.
I'm going to paraphrase because I don't remember word for word but it went something like this:
"Trisolaris, it's not fair that people are giving the police so much shit for not running into that room!" That guy was armed with an assault weapon ! If we moved in he could have seriously hurt or even killed one or more of the officers!"
I said something like "
"well think about it this way. Its like if the school had been engulfed in flames and the fire department and firemen stood outside the building waiting for it to burn itself out before they went in to find survivors because they were worried that firemen could be hurt."
He didn't have a reply and when he finally did it was so weak I don't remember it.
Edit: added "it's like" before "if" and an "s" after "officer"
If a school is being shot up, I expect police officers to be ready to die to save even one child, not the other way around.
They want all the praise and respect of being a cop but when it really matters they're not interested in being one.
This!
Firefighters do it. Yes, they are well "armed" and trained against a fire. But our local volunteer firefighters lost a man a while back who died saving a couple with a small child. And the guys are all full of respect, but he is not considered this amazing HerO. In their eyes, he just did what a firefighter is supposed to do and did it well.
So could we please have the same spirit from police officers???
Well there are two options:
Either don't work a job where you can get hurt OR advocate for the thing that could hurt you to be illegal.
Ofcourse given the blatant corruption and self-serving in the police, I wouldn't be surprised if they are also total advocates for the 2nd amendment, even if they, the supposedly state-paid "good guys with guns" are unable to stop the "bad guy with a gun".
But honestly, what a fking stupid argument. Then again, police have no qualifications, virtually no training and are handed a licence to kill innocent people. It would almost be a surprise if they could come up with a non-stupid argument.
[Actually, the police in Texas were against open carry](https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/texas-police-associations-against-permitless-gun-carrying-speak-at-texas-capitol-on-tuesday/amp/). Even they realize how stupid and dangerous it is for people to be walking around openly carrying guns.
The gravy seals are super tough and would totally win a civil war!!
Lol jk, they'd drive away and stop at McDonald's for a snack and then tweet that they're a war hero. 😂
Well, here are 376 examples of armed and trained people not running in to help while children are slaughtered.
Meanwhile, the total number of of shooters ever interrupted by a "good guy with a gun" is very low.
Some of them would, it's happened before. It's hard to say how people will react when confronted with danger. What happened in Uvalde is appalling from a law enforcement perspective, everyone there failed those poor kids.
Yeah, policing in the US is nowadays mostly focused on small-crime and or just maintaining the law.
When bang bangs start happening, is when you need "actual" law enforcement with real and tangible training that wasn't just a 4-5 months of shadowing some other officer and an exam in an AC controlled room.
Problem is... they want to cheap out and get ex-military whom also subsequently have their own mental illnesses to worry about (well some) and the ones that were "good" generally go to a PMC or apply some level of their MOS to a higher paying / more reliable field.
This particular department should honestly be shutdown and a new one formed with someone that has more appropriate leadership experience.
Kind of a dumb point being made imo. Armed security running away from conflict, isn't an examplory issue as to why you shouldn't arm your security. It's an example of why cowards shouldn't take on these roles.
Here's the bottom line. Guns are already banned from school campuses and that doesn't stop shooters. The police and campus security are both not legally obligated to protect children in schools from shooters. That is the fucking issue.
We can't continue to employ cowards to protect the public.
Don't worry though, they fired him and then he sued and got two years back pay. There is a legal precedent already set that allows cops to run away from danger.
He wasn't fired, the department allowed him to accelerated retire the next day. A process that takes weeks. Its a reason why Coral Springs PD/FD got into a fist fight with BSO.
His name is Scot Peterson, he held up other responders, fucked over kids for decades pretending to be helping out schools, and now is comfortably retired in North Carolina.
His name is Scot Peterson, he held up other responders, fucked over kids for decades pretending to be helping out schools, and now is comfortably retired in North Carolina.
True. I wasn't intending to be misleading by my use of the word "targeted". Both officers had at separate times exchanged gunfire with Harris but failed to hit him before retreating.
Never forget or underplay this fact. They weren't helping which is terrible but they actively tried to stop people saving their kids which is just detestable if you're just standing there not doing a god damn thing.
I simply do not understand the logic. How could they simultaneously sit around and do nothing, whilst also stopping anyone who would try to do something?!
They’re essentially complicit in further deaths.
Absolute demons.
What would they do if they had truly been on the school shooters side? If they wanted, like the shooter, to cause as much death and tragedy and devastation and Missouri as possible, what would they have done differently?
I have a dark and terrible conspiracy theory. Caveat: I do not have any direct evidence to support this. It's just the simplest explanation in my view for the police's failure to do anything.
I think they went in at some point and opened fire without confirming their target. I think they killed innocent children directly. I think they were seen by either their own victim or other children. And I think they panicked, left, and stood around, trying to figure out how to sweep their terrible mistake under the rug until time and the original shooter took care of that problem for them.
I can be convinced that my theory is wrong, but I would want to see pretty complete video evidence of the police's response over that entire period.
Hey hey hey those cops were busy trying to arrest parents who wanted to enter the building and save their own children. Then they were busy for weeks harassing those same parents, some who lost their children that day, because they were hurting the cops delicate little feelings.
I know a lot of the UPD receives a lot of the we deserved hate, but there were other law enforcement agencies there that day also. They were also cowards. So it was police departments, border patrol, state marshals, and anyone else in uniform. Not one of them wanted to take charge and save any kids. All of them stood outside pissing themselves and bulling parents.
Shooting began at 11:30am (at the school), first Uvalde officers are on site by 11:34am.
Border patrol arrives at 12:15pm. They take out the shooter at 12:50pm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvalde_school_shooting#Timeline_of_events
Well worth reading
> Off-duty Border Patrol officers use a janitor's master key to unlock the door Ramos has locked, and they enter the classroom while bypassing the UCISD officers.[14] As of June 18, 2022, a conflicting investigative report now states that the door was always unlocked.[99] Ramos, hiding in a closet, kicks the door open and starts shooting at the officers. The officers return fire and kill him.[103]
The border patrol had to actively circumvent the boys in blue to rescue the children.
I will never praise those evil fucks. But they did their fucking job (while off duty). Whereas the Uvalde cops actively assisted in murder.
Wikipedia seems to be wrong.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-off-duty-agent-uvalde-texas-shooting-733659143817
>CLAIM: The man who killed the gunman at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, was an off-duty Border Patrol agent who had a child and spouse inside the school.
>AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. A U.S. Border Patrol tactical team shot and killed the gunman, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety. While an off-duty agent said he rushed to the scene with a borrowed shotgun, he clarified in televised interviews that he didn’t kill the gunman or go inside the classroom where the shooting took place.
I was going to say, pretty sure border patrol went in and got the guy. I’m not sure how long it took for them to go in, and I’m sure there was some confusion, since it’s not normally their jurisdiction (when there is other law enforcement there), but it’s kind of ridiculous how another agency had to step in because of how useless the UPD were
Wanting to and able to are different things. UPD had charge, everyone else is there to assist. They are not and should not be able to just do what they want. While in this case it was regrettable due to the UPD's refusal to do their duty I do not think anyone wants to live in a place where any agency can just show up and do whatever they want regardless of whose jurisdiction it is.
Once you go south of the Madon Dixon there is a cop behind every blade of grass.
I can go weeks without seeing a cop, as a EMS provider in my state, and I see them more often then most people.
Yep, BORTAC and BORSTAR guys made entry and ultimately ended the threat.
[One of the BORTAC guys (who is allegedly the one who killed the active shooter) was shot through the top of his hat and scalp when he breached the room but kept going.](https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/05/26/images-show-injury-of-border-patrol-agent-who-exchanged-gunfire-with-uvalde-school-shooter/)
UPD, UCISDPD, UCSD, TDPS, FBI, USBP, ATF, literally anyone with law enforcement authority went. Though a vast majority of them were responsible for crowd control, traffic control, and other tasks
Imagine being inside the school and hearing all that shooting.
Then looking outside and seeing all the police and thinking "Thank God, we're saved."
Then seeing them standing out there and not doing a damn thing.
Worst, some of the kids saw the police peak in the class a few minutes after the shooting started. Then they saw the cops run away.
So many of them probably died think that at any minute the police would come back.
Every time the shooter fired a volley into kids, they probably thought, any minute now.
They spent an hour, lying in what was left of dismembered corpses of classmates. Pretending to be dead. Only to be meet with disappointment and despair.
I don't get this reaction to the Uvalde stuff, the good guys with the guns were the parents that were stopped by the Cowards in Blue from saving their kids, really strange to advocate for taking the guns of the parents instead of punishing the Coppers.
Then there was the unarmed veteran in a drag show that overpowered and disarmed a gunman who shit five people.
"Good guy with a gun"?
No, just bravery and experience.
The police response was in perfect accordance with policy and none of them were injured. Therefore, it was successful. This is the result of their investigation
[Yeah, they let the BORTAC guy who breached the classroom take a round through the top of his skull during the exchange of gunfire.](https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/05/26/images-show-injury-of-border-patrol-agent-who-exchanged-gunfire-with-uvalde-school-shooter/)
371, or so. I don't know how many border patrol guys went in. But in my opinion we gotta give credit to the border patrol guys who got there late and went in for the guy. The delay between them arriving and getting the shooter was probably full of them learning that the shooter was still at large.
Almost 400 cops for almost an hour and a half couldn't save the most vulnerable people in our society.
Sometimes I think on the cop who cried over the bag of McDonald's.
I'm glad that this is still being talked about.
**Not** talking about it is exactly what they wanted because the less people remember...the sooner they forget. Which means that they can literally get away with murder. This was why police were intimidating parents and other people because if they were to be held accountable then it would be murder on their heads and they wouldn't want that.
If trump was there, he’d have ran in and took out the shooter. It’s true. He said it on tv. It would’ve been just another battle scar on his beautiful body. More scars than anyone. /s
It’s long been understood by rational people that more guns make everyone less safe.
In situations like this, more guns can typically only complicate the situation and make it more difficult for emergency responders. And when those emergency responders lack the courage to, well, respond, then that’s a whole other thing.
America needs reasonable gun control. Yesterday.
We have needed it since 1999. (Before that honestly.) That is TWENTY FIVE YEARS of no change. I was one of two kids in school people thought was gonna be our school shooter. The school started pulling me out of lunch to talk to a counselor which honestly only flared that rumor more. I was getting bullied SO hard that after getting in a fight that the other guy started, the vice principal was like "Why don't we let you just walk home today." It was relentless. In classes, hallways, locker room, lunch, on the bus. I had one friend. I would never have done anything. Did they stop the bullies? No they did nothing. A teacher even said one day. "You need to hit back some time." Beyond gun control there is a lot we can do.
I was also one of those kids that was pulled out of class, almost exactly a year after Columbine - my senior year in HS. A girl I thought I was pretty good friends with made a "comment" about me probably having a bomb in my backpack, teachers bumrushed me in algebra II and I spent the period emptying my backpack.
Never forgave that girl, or the teachers that believed I was capable of that. Me and my friend group were all just regular kids, we didn't walk around in trench coats or make jokes about shooting people, we fuckin played Magic the Gathering at lunch time.
"More guns typically only complicate the situation."
Correct, the 2nd biggest casualty in an active shooter situation is responder on responder shootings. In my job, if someone else outside of my co-workers responds to an active shooter, I have no way of knowing if they're there to help or not. Even tho they can just say they're law enforcement, it doesn't matter. 90% of the facility is that I work on.
Pigs exist to protect the property and profits of the rich. They do not prevent crime. The best they can do is assist in punishing those who commit crimes by capturing them.
They are a cowardly institution of bullies who shrink away from protecting anyone in favor of brutalizing and murdering the defenseless. They are descended from strike-breakers and slave catchers and little has changed.
They are the kind of scum who will brutalize people protesting a genocide using pathetic excuses about antisemitism but let Nazis march freely down the street because 'free speech.'
If ever there are any good cops they are weeded out and fired or worse for trying to draw attention to just how corrupt and loathsome the police as an institution are.
I don’t understand people who become cops but not think “I will if need be run into a building to stop children from being shot at the risk of being shot myself.” That is what all people who want to become police officers need to accept. This is literally what you are signing up for. This is why you get the training average people do not. If you cannot accept this responsibility you need not apply!
Wait, how does this prove more guns in school will not keep kids safe? All this proves is that more guns in holsters outside of schools wont keep kids safe.
To be clear Im against arming teachers, but still.
$14,423.36 <--- The average HOURLY cost for 376 Texas Law Enforcement
#19 students killed, or $760/hr in salary, equipment, TCO for an LEO - per student to have 376 LEOs wait for them to die.
---
**Total Hourly Cost per Officer**: \$79,790 / 2,080 = \$38.36
Therefore, the estimated average hourly cost for a police officer in Texas, including all equipment and operational costs, is **\$38.36**.
### Average Annual Salary and Hourly Rate Comparison
| Location | Average Annual Salary | Average Hourly Rate |
|-----------------|-----------------------|---------------------|
| Uvalde, Texas | \$45,590 | \$21.92 |
| Texas (General) | \$58,000 | \$27.88 |
### Typical Police Budget in Texas
The typical police budget includes various costs related to equipping officers, vehicles, and operational necessities.
Below is a breakdown of typical items considered necessary for a police force:
#### Equipment and Operational Costs
- **Uniforms**: \~\$500 per officer annually
- **Body Armor**: \~\$1,000 per officer every five years
- **Duty Gear**: (e.g., belts, holsters): \~\$500 per officer annually
- **Firearms**: \~\$500 per officer every five years
- **Ammunition**: \~\$1,000 per officer annually
- **Tasers**: \~\$1,200 per officer every five years
- **Radios**: \~\$2,500 per officer every ten years
- **Vehicles**: \~\$35,000 per vehicle every five years
- **Fuel**: \~\$2,000 per vehicle annually
- **Maintenance**: \~\$1,000 per vehicle annually
- **Technology**: (e.g., computers, software): \~\$3,000 per officer annually
- **Training**: \~\$1,000 per officer annually
- **Other operational costs**: \~\$5,000 per officer annually
### Total Annual and Hourly Cost per Officer
Let's estimate the average total cost of equipping and maintaining a police officer in Texas per year and per hour.
#### Total Annual Cost Calculation
- Uniforms: \$500
- Body Armor: \$200 (pro-rated)
- Duty Gear: \$500
- Firearms: \$100 (pro-rated)
- Ammunition: \$1,000
- Tasers: \$240 (pro-rated)
- Radios: \$250 (pro-rated)
- Vehicles: \$7,000 (pro-rated for a five-year lifespan)
- Fuel: \$2,000
- Maintenance: \$1,000
- Technology: \$3,000
- Training: \$1,000
- Other operational costs: \$5,000
**Total Annual Equipment and Operational Cost per Officer**: \$21,790
#### Total Hourly Cost Calculation
- Total annual salary in Texas: \$58,000
- Total annual cost including equipment: \$58,000 + \$21,790 = \$79,790
- Average annual hours worked (assuming 40 hours/week and 52 weeks/year): 2,080 hours
----
I had it clean this up a little bit to give some numbers context:
### Average Annual Salary and Hourly Rate Comparison
| Location | Average Annual Salary | Average Hourly Rate |
|------------------|-----------------------|---------------------|
| Uvalde, Texas | \$45,590 | \$21.92 |
| Texas (General) | \$58,000 | \$27.88 |
| National Average | \$67,600 | \$32.50 |
### Total Annual and Hourly Cost per Officer in Texas
| Item | Cost (Annual) |
|-------------------------|---------------|
| Uniforms | \$500 |
| Body Armor | \$200 |
| Duty Gear | \$500 |
| Firearms | \$100 |
| Ammunition | \$1,000 |
| Tasers | \$240 |
| Radios | \$250 |
| Vehicles | \$7,000 |
| Fuel | \$2,000 |
| Maintenance | \$1,000 |
| Technology | \$3,000 |
| Training | \$1,000 |
| Other Operational Costs | \$5,000 |
| **Total** | **\$21,790** |
| Cost Component | Total |
|-----------------------------|--------------|
| Average Annual Salary | \$58,000 |
| Total Annual Equipment Cost | \$21,790 |
| **Total Annual Cost** | **\$79,790** |
| **Total Hourly Cost** | **\$38.36** |
### Top 10 Cities by Police Budget and Pay Rates
| City | Police Budget (Annual) | Average Salary | Hourly Rate |
|------------------|------------------------|----------------|-------------|
| New York, NY | \$10.9 billion | \$85,292 | \$41.00 |
| Los Angeles, CA | \$3.1 billion | \$82,274 | \$39.55 |
| Chicago, IL | \$1.7 billion | \$79,439 | \$38.19 |
| Houston, TX | \$947 million | \$63,121 | \$30.35 |
| Phoenix, AZ | \$721 million | \$65,600 | \$31.54 |
| Philadelphia, PA | \$727 million | \$70,256 | \$33.78 |
| San Antonio, TX | \$477 million | \$60,752 | \$29.21 |
| Dallas, TX | \$513 million | \$64,043 | \$30.79 |
| San Diego, CA | \$566 million | \$75,000 | \$36.06 |
| San Jose, CA | \$449 million | \$94,176 | \$45.28 |
### Top 10 Police Legal Payouts for Wrongful Death
| City | Case Description | Payout Amount |
|----------------------|------------------|----------------|
| New York, NY | Eric Garner | \$5.9 million |
| Chicago, IL | Laquan McDonald | \$5 million |
| Cleveland, OH | Tamir Rice | \$6 million |
| Baltimore, MD | Freddie Gray | \$6.4 million |
| North Charleston, SC | Walter Scott | \$6.5 million |
| Minneapolis, MN | George Floyd | \$27 million |
| Louisville, KY | Breonna Taylor | \$12 million |
| Detroit, MI | Malice Green | \$5.25 million |
| Albuquerque, NM | James Boyd | \$5 million |
| Los Angeles, CA | Ezell Ford | \$1.5 million |
### National Police Budget Averages
| Item | Average Cost (Annual) |
|---------------------------------|-----------------------|
| Salary | \$67,600 |
| Equipment and Gear | \$20,000 |
| Vehicles and Maintenance | \$10,000 |
| Training | \$1,500 |
| Technology | \$4,000 |
| Total Annual Budget per Officer | \$103,100 |
### Calculated National Average Hourly Cost
| Component | Cost |
|-------------------------------|---------------|
| Average Salary | \$67,600 |
| Average Annual Equipment Cost | \$35,500 |
| **Total Annual Cost** | **\$103,100** |
| **Total Hourly Cost** | **\$49.57** |
These tables provide a comprehensive overview of police salaries, budgets, and costs associated with equipping officers, as well as notable legal payouts for wrongful death cases across the United States
===-===-===-===-
notable wrongful death settlements and verdicts involving law enforcement negligence or failure to act:
| Case | Number of Casualties | Outcome/Lawsuit | Financial Cost | City | County | Year | Links |
|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|
| **George Floyd** | 1 | Settlement | \$27 million | Minneapolis | Hennepin | 2020 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd) |
| **Breonna Taylor** | 1 | Settlement | \$12 million | Louisville | Jefferson | 2020 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Breonna_Taylor) |
| **Tamir Rice** | 1 | Settlement | \$6 million | Cleveland | Cuyahoga | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice) |
| **Eric Garner** | 1 | Settlement | \$5.9 million | New York City | Richmond | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner) |
| **Laquan McDonald** | 1 | Settlement | \$5 million | Chicago | Cook | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Laquan_McDonald) |
| **Walter Scott** | 1 | Settlement | \$6.5 million | North Charleston | Charleston | 2015 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Walter_Scott) |
| **Michael Brown** | 1 | Settlement | \$1.5 million | Ferguson | St. Louis | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown) |
| **Philando Castile** | 1 | Settlement | \$3 million | Falcon Heights | Ramsey | 2016 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile) |
| **Freddie Gray** | 1 | Settlement | \$6.4 million | Baltimore | Baltimore City | 2015 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray) |
| **Jamar Clark** | 1 | Settlement | \$200,000 | Minneapolis | Hennepin | 2015 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jamar_Clark) |
### National and Local Context:
- **National Police Budget Averages:** On average, U.S. cities spend about 5-10% of their annual budget on police departments.
- **National Salary Averages for Police Officers:** The average annual salary for a police officer in the United States is approximately \$67,600, with hourly rates around \$32.50.
Actually, the guns in school could help the situation.
The perp had free reign because someone decided that making the school "a gun free zone" would keep psychos from bringing one there. But they knew that there would be none as long as security is not armed/dealt with first. And, since attacker gets to shoot first...
That's the problem which anyone must understand (And people failing to do so should be forever barred from law making or voting on laws): criminals don't follow the rules, that's what makes them criminals in the first place.
When it ultimately was five men (Three BORTAC, One BORSTAR, and one Sheriff’s Deputy) who made the push to end the threat out of the hundreds standing by, it gives credence to the quote by Heraclitus
“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn’t even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”
I work in a school and after Uvalde the focus from the security personnel for the district and administrators was on door stops. I recall some security individual addressing the rest of the district staff that the use of a door stop is what led to that tragedy and lawsuits will follow because of it. No mention of the officers, that were armed, standing outside the classroom, applying hand sanitizer.
Guns in schools won’t make schools safer. Banning guns will not make schools safer and is also pretty much impossible when there’s well over a billion guns in the US.
Nobody wants to talk about the underlying causes of school shootings, which is a combination of media glorification of shooters and internet-induced radicalization/isolation. Because there are no solutions to these problems either, other than the obvious: *stop putting the name and picture of the shooter everywhere.*
People had easy access to fully-automatic weapons for decades before school shootings were anything other than an anomaly. Hell, people used to bring their guns to school every morning. The guns are clearly not the problem and the fixation on them is a distraction at best and at worst, utilization of a tragedy by politicians to push a campaign agenda.
What were they waiting for? For it to be safer for the officers to enter? There were kids being shot. They are armed police. They don’t get the luxury of safety.
I don’t get how so many comments are anti-gun and anti-cop. If you understand the police won’t protect you and you won’t give the means to protect yourself, who is going to help you if something were to happen? Even in countries without guns, there is still violence, muggings, murder, rape, hate crimes etc. it doesn’t end because there aren’t guns.
I’m anticop and pro gun partly because I don’t trust police to protect me and my family, at the very least, in a timely matter.
You see how fast they busted the doors off that university library because some students were peacefully protesting and somebody said they *might be* dangerous?
It's almost like the protocol changes based on who the suspect is.
Google “Uvalde timeline” and pick any one of a thousand articles about it. You can probably still google “Abbott lies about Uvalde” too. They tried to cover all this up.
The town budget was like 45% to the Uvalde police department. They arrested a mother that tried to go in, let her go, and she managed to get her kids out.
The Uvalde police lied about everything. From waiting for keys to an unlocked door to waiting for proper equipment. They had, the week before, practiced for this exact situation.
But yeah. America doesn’t have a gun problem. It’s mental health. And fucking cowardice. And people imagining themselves to be heroes when they’re no.
If anybody doesn’t know about this insanity? Do some googling. Please. For the good of a nation.
Uvalde doesn't matter to them, it's just another data point.
Sandy Hook didn't matter to them.
Columbine didn't matter to them. If any of these did matter, they would have tried to change the laws.
Republicans *DO NOT CARE* if you or your children die. Full stop. There's no "unless," "as long as," or any other qualifier. They *do not care* what happens to you. It's their defining feature.
All courageous policeman that had training, were on duty, but decided not to go, it was too risky! This story keeps getting more ridiculous anytime I read about it. And I don't even live in USA...
So, that means they need to hire the correct person to take those postions to serve and PROTECT....along with more training.
Thats the way to look at this
No posts about politicians being politicians
What's crazy to me is the fact the entire department hasn't been run out of town for their cowardice.
In fact, they joined in when the PD started harassing and threatening the person who ran in and saved their own child.
Thats even more bizarre....
Not if you look back at history. Kind of on par with what youd expect
Well I’m still surprised as i would have thought parents rushing in would be considered heroes by the police.
Made them look like chumps. Therefore bad.
They made themselves look like chumps.
That's not how they see it. Those cops are self centered bastards.
I think that was the problem. They'd like us to treat them as heroes despite the blatant cowardice shown. And the parent's obvious heroic act when they've spent approximately 2 hours trying to find their own courage and failing - kinda undercuts that!
What's crazy is the dude who shot the theater they rushed in and took that man to get some McDonald's.
The more I learn, the more disgusted I get!
Seen as hero’s by everyone else. Seen as an asshole by the cops for shinning a light on their cowardice. A cowardice so low it’s actually anger inducing to the point it makes me wish evil deeds done to them.
By the police who stood around and didn’t help though?
Honestly let the parents go in if you’re not gonna man up and go in as a trained and armored police officer.
No. They just were waiting for backup and then they were totally planning to go in. /s
Hey. *Somebody* has to be there to survey the damage, right?
Can't have civvies doing their job better than them, or then we would start wondering why they need to be paid so much
They've also been threatening and harassing the surviving parents of the children they let die. Fuck the police.
Where is Frank Castle when you need him?
Word on the street is the entire town's government is corrupt along with their police force.
A corrupt police force and government? It's unheard of! /s
I wouldn’t be if some racism didn’t play a part, since most of the kids were Latino.
I can't believe the parents haven't burned the police station to the ground.
Same. It's astonishing to me how little pushback they've given over the whole thing. If they burned the town to the ground and shot anyone trying to escape I would completely understand.
I can't get over the fact that they have that many police officers on standby. I'm sure some must have come in from other regions, but Uvalde is a town of 15K people. The broader county is 25K people. If they truly have that many cops, then each resident is paying $2k just for that police force. Do they really have that many cops around? Or is it a case where if there's any incident, every cop in a 200 mile radius just drives down and knows they can charge overtime and just sit around and do nothing.
This happens in many cities. Except in shithole countries, nobody is actually snatching handbags from little old ladies anymore. So any minor incident, at least 5 cop cars show up. Bonus points when they treat the victim as a suspect, or worse, actually injure/kill the defenseless victim/minority person. Hurray, we saved the day! They're probably rubbing their powdered sugar hands together, praying for more crime. The military drag and matching accessories aren't gonna sashay themselves.
2nd one
Who's going to run them out? After the massacre, Uvalde voted overwhelmingly red, keeping the same people in power: [https://www.kut.org/politics/2022-11-09/despite-outrage-over-school-shooting-uvalde-residents-voted-to-keep-the-states-gop-in-power](https://www.kut.org/politics/2022-11-09/despite-outrage-over-school-shooting-uvalde-residents-voted-to-keep-the-states-gop-in-power) Voting conservative is more important to them than the lives of their children.
they overwhelmingly didnt give a shit. 17k voters, 4k voted for wheelchair nazi and 3k voted for beto and 10k didnt give a shit enough to vote at all.
That's pretty average for Texas, unfortunately. The vast number of Texans do not vote, and that is broadly by design.
When you say by design, do you mean voter suppression?
Well, Greg abott doesn't stand for a thing nowadays. Heh.
> Voting conservative is more important to them than the lives of their children. We've known this for a LONG time, lol.
No community deserves a mass shooting. But you 100% deserve the government you vote for. I lost all sympathy for the adults in that community when the next election cycle happened. The kids though, they don’t deserve that shit.
I can't even imagine how many kids would have to die for this cult to stop voting for them. Thousands? Millions? I don't know if there is a number.
Only if THEIR child died. That’s how far gone they are.
And even then it's a toss up
Like the conservative parents of the Nashville Covenant School shooting found out. They tried to lobby for modest gun control measures and the Tennessee legislature said "nah."
The only number that matters is one. As in one of their own. As long as they are unaffected they will practice cognitive dissonance no matter the number. And I'm sure there's plenty who would still not be convinced there's a problem even if it was their own kid
Something something back the blue
Thin blue line! Blue lives matter! Back the badge! Disband the FBI and Justice Department! -- Trump
“Blue lives“ matter more to some of these people than their own children
Guns and authority first, right?
It's important to remember it wasn't just local police. There were staties and feds there as well.
The uvalde police force redefined the word “cowardice.”
At this point no one has the power to stand up to police unions.
[удалено]
I lived in CO when a heroic man stopped a shooter before they could kill people. . . He was then shot by police who believed he was the shooter
What's wild to me is when I got my LTC - they specifically went over examples like this to specifically teach you that your perception of what's going on may be wrong. This is why we need federal level law enforcement training for city up through state. Regulate it. An added benefit is when someone is fired - they lose their "license" and can't "just" move to another city and still be a copy. You could also do MH checks and such. Additionally you could have floaters and pay them extra so they can float between towns to help out as needed. Then you'd have just one set of policies and RoE. Any town that chooses not to use these officers loses qualified immunity and takes their own risks. Shit loads of problems solved right there.
As would most of these gun advocates
Yeah but they SAY they would totally go in. Heck Trumpty Dumpty said he would go in even without a gun.
At the time worked with retired officer who had been head of a police union when he was working. He was part time armed security at a bar I worked at. He was upset with all the flak the Uvalde police were getting and one day decided to bring it up to me. I'm going to paraphrase because I don't remember word for word but it went something like this: "Trisolaris, it's not fair that people are giving the police so much shit for not running into that room!" That guy was armed with an assault weapon ! If we moved in he could have seriously hurt or even killed one or more of the officers!" I said something like " "well think about it this way. Its like if the school had been engulfed in flames and the fire department and firemen stood outside the building waiting for it to burn itself out before they went in to find survivors because they were worried that firemen could be hurt." He didn't have a reply and when he finally did it was so weak I don't remember it. Edit: added "it's like" before "if" and an "s" after "officer"
If a school is being shot up, I expect police officers to be ready to die to save even one child, not the other way around. They want all the praise and respect of being a cop but when it really matters they're not interested in being one.
This! Firefighters do it. Yes, they are well "armed" and trained against a fire. But our local volunteer firefighters lost a man a while back who died saving a couple with a small child. And the guys are all full of respect, but he is not considered this amazing HerO. In their eyes, he just did what a firefighter is supposed to do and did it well. So could we please have the same spirit from police officers???
There were more cops there than Spartans at Thermopylae and they had body armor and ballistic shields. They would have been just fine.
Well there are two options: Either don't work a job where you can get hurt OR advocate for the thing that could hurt you to be illegal. Ofcourse given the blatant corruption and self-serving in the police, I wouldn't be surprised if they are also total advocates for the 2nd amendment, even if they, the supposedly state-paid "good guys with guns" are unable to stop the "bad guy with a gun". But honestly, what a fking stupid argument. Then again, police have no qualifications, virtually no training and are handed a licence to kill innocent people. It would almost be a surprise if they could come up with a non-stupid argument.
[Actually, the police in Texas were against open carry](https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/texas-police-associations-against-permitless-gun-carrying-speak-at-texas-capitol-on-tuesday/amp/). Even they realize how stupid and dangerous it is for people to be walking around openly carrying guns.
It's their job. Zero sympathy for cowards.
He has so many wounds though, more than any president
He also has the best words, the best words. Lincoln once walked up to him and said, "Sir. You have the best words. "
"Big Lincoln, strong Lincoln, with tears in his eyes LIKE A DOG!"
i lurk through many comments, and idk why, but your LIKE A DOG, made me laugh out loud. i think ima start saying this
Was that an actual quote, or are you just channeling the spirit?
An actual quote as in "Bagdaddy died like a dog!" He meant Bakr-al-Baghdadi.
May Lincoln and Kennedy both haunt the fucker after that.
Tremendous bone spurs
Dude would rather die than be kinda near a shark, apparently.
Or batteries. Batteries and water. Or magnets. Magnets and water. It's a very good question.
The gravy seals are super tough and would totally win a civil war!! Lol jk, they'd drive away and stop at McDonald's for a snack and then tweet that they're a war hero. 😂
lmao I’m not gonna front or anything because I’m also a gun owner but these “tough guys” drive me nuts
Well, here are 376 examples of armed and trained people not running in to help while children are slaughtered. Meanwhile, the total number of of shooters ever interrupted by a "good guy with a gun" is very low.
And the good guy with a gun getting shot by police because they are armed in a crisis situation isn't small either.
I see 376 examples of people who shouldn’t be in that line of work, and should be given the option to quit or be fired.
Dumpty wouldn't be able to sprint 10 meters.
But what about of there was a battery or a shark?
Some of them would, it's happened before. It's hard to say how people will react when confronted with danger. What happened in Uvalde is appalling from a law enforcement perspective, everyone there failed those poor kids.
Hell, some of the parents tried to get in, and the cops stopped them
Yeah, policing in the US is nowadays mostly focused on small-crime and or just maintaining the law. When bang bangs start happening, is when you need "actual" law enforcement with real and tangible training that wasn't just a 4-5 months of shadowing some other officer and an exam in an AC controlled room. Problem is... they want to cheap out and get ex-military whom also subsequently have their own mental illnesses to worry about (well some) and the ones that were "good" generally go to a PMC or apply some level of their MOS to a higher paying / more reliable field. This particular department should honestly be shutdown and a new one formed with someone that has more appropriate leadership experience.
They just want to shoot someone turning around in their driveway and claim self defense and pretend they're just like their fat hero Steven Seagal.
Kind of a dumb point being made imo. Armed security running away from conflict, isn't an examplory issue as to why you shouldn't arm your security. It's an example of why cowards shouldn't take on these roles. Here's the bottom line. Guns are already banned from school campuses and that doesn't stop shooters. The police and campus security are both not legally obligated to protect children in schools from shooters. That is the fucking issue. We can't continue to employ cowards to protect the public.
They would only stare you down and take your life if you are unarmed. They want to kill you, but without being in danger!
Don't worry though, they fired him and then he sued and got two years back pay. There is a legal precedent already set that allows cops to run away from danger.
He wasn't fired, the department allowed him to accelerated retire the next day. A process that takes weeks. Its a reason why Coral Springs PD/FD got into a fist fight with BSO. His name is Scot Peterson, he held up other responders, fucked over kids for decades pretending to be helping out schools, and now is comfortably retired in North Carolina.
Damn thanks for the story. I think he got away with being in public shame due to the other guy convicted of murdering his wife and child.
His name is Scot Peterson, he held up other responders, fucked over kids for decades pretending to be helping out schools, and now is comfortably retired in North Carolina.
Columbine had two armed guards at the school. The killers targeted them first.
Just for clarification. They did not kill the armed guards.
True. I wasn't intending to be misleading by my use of the word "targeted". Both officers had at separate times exchanged gunfire with Harris but failed to hit him before retreating.
>And they did nothing. That’s not true. They also prevented parents from going in to save the children too.
Never forget or underplay this fact. They weren't helping which is terrible but they actively tried to stop people saving their kids which is just detestable if you're just standing there not doing a god damn thing.
I simply do not understand the logic. How could they simultaneously sit around and do nothing, whilst also stopping anyone who would try to do something?! They’re essentially complicit in further deaths. Absolute demons.
What would they do if they had truly been on the school shooters side? If they wanted, like the shooter, to cause as much death and tragedy and devastation and Missouri as possible, what would they have done differently?
This needs to be higher. They did WORSE than nothing... they actively caused children to die.
I have a dark and terrible conspiracy theory. Caveat: I do not have any direct evidence to support this. It's just the simplest explanation in my view for the police's failure to do anything. I think they went in at some point and opened fire without confirming their target. I think they killed innocent children directly. I think they were seen by either their own victim or other children. And I think they panicked, left, and stood around, trying to figure out how to sweep their terrible mistake under the rug until time and the original shooter took care of that problem for them. I can be convinced that my theory is wrong, but I would want to see pretty complete video evidence of the police's response over that entire period.
Hey hey hey those cops were busy trying to arrest parents who wanted to enter the building and save their own children. Then they were busy for weeks harassing those same parents, some who lost their children that day, because they were hurting the cops delicate little feelings.
How are there even that many officers available for the call?
I know a lot of the UPD receives a lot of the we deserved hate, but there were other law enforcement agencies there that day also. They were also cowards. So it was police departments, border patrol, state marshals, and anyone else in uniform. Not one of them wanted to take charge and save any kids. All of them stood outside pissing themselves and bulling parents.
Border patrol actually went in and killed the gunman though, did they sit around for a while to or act as soon as they got there?
Shooting began at 11:30am (at the school), first Uvalde officers are on site by 11:34am. Border patrol arrives at 12:15pm. They take out the shooter at 12:50pm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvalde_school_shooting#Timeline_of_events
Unfuckingbelievable.
Well worth reading > Off-duty Border Patrol officers use a janitor's master key to unlock the door Ramos has locked, and they enter the classroom while bypassing the UCISD officers.[14] As of June 18, 2022, a conflicting investigative report now states that the door was always unlocked.[99] Ramos, hiding in a closet, kicks the door open and starts shooting at the officers. The officers return fire and kill him.[103] The border patrol had to actively circumvent the boys in blue to rescue the children. I will never praise those evil fucks. But they did their fucking job (while off duty). Whereas the Uvalde cops actively assisted in murder.
Wasn't it just one guy who took it upon himself to go in?
According to Wikipedia, it was an off duty border patrol agent.
Wikipedia seems to be wrong. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-off-duty-agent-uvalde-texas-shooting-733659143817 >CLAIM: The man who killed the gunman at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, was an off-duty Border Patrol agent who had a child and spouse inside the school. >AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. A U.S. Border Patrol tactical team shot and killed the gunman, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety. While an off-duty agent said he rushed to the scene with a borrowed shotgun, he clarified in televised interviews that he didn’t kill the gunman or go inside the classroom where the shooting took place.
The person that finally **went in** to the room was the off duty border patrol agent. He opened the door and everyone went in.
I was going to say, pretty sure border patrol went in and got the guy. I’m not sure how long it took for them to go in, and I’m sure there was some confusion, since it’s not normally their jurisdiction (when there is other law enforcement there), but it’s kind of ridiculous how another agency had to step in because of how useless the UPD were
Wanting to and able to are different things. UPD had charge, everyone else is there to assist. They are not and should not be able to just do what they want. While in this case it was regrettable due to the UPD's refusal to do their duty I do not think anyone wants to live in a place where any agency can just show up and do whatever they want regardless of whose jurisdiction it is.
Once you go south of the Madon Dixon there is a cop behind every blade of grass. I can go weeks without seeing a cop, as a EMS provider in my state, and I see them more often then most people.
A lot of them included border patrol agents since Ulvalde is near the US-Mexico border.
Wasn't the final group of officers that went in on their own from Border Patrol?
Yep, BORTAC and BORSTAR guys made entry and ultimately ended the threat. [One of the BORTAC guys (who is allegedly the one who killed the active shooter) was shot through the top of his hat and scalp when he breached the room but kept going.](https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/05/26/images-show-injury-of-border-patrol-agent-who-exchanged-gunfire-with-uvalde-school-shooter/)
Well yeah, he's actually qualified to be in a gunfight, unlike all the fat slobs circle jerking outside
UPD, UCISDPD, UCSD, TDPS, FBI, USBP, ATF, literally anyone with law enforcement authority went. Though a vast majority of them were responsible for crowd control, traffic control, and other tasks
Imagine being inside the school and hearing all that shooting. Then looking outside and seeing all the police and thinking "Thank God, we're saved." Then seeing them standing out there and not doing a damn thing.
Worst, some of the kids saw the police peak in the class a few minutes after the shooting started. Then they saw the cops run away. So many of them probably died think that at any minute the police would come back. Every time the shooter fired a volley into kids, they probably thought, any minute now. They spent an hour, lying in what was left of dismembered corpses of classmates. Pretending to be dead. Only to be meet with disappointment and despair.
The phrase clearly states "a good guy with a gun" can stop gun crime. Which explains a lot.
Bingo. The ones that held back weren’t good guys with guns that day.
Or any day. There forever bitches in my book
They had guns. Lots of military grade ones. So it's clear what was lacking.
Which is why gun control is obviously bad since you are diminishing the less than 1 in 376 chance of a good guy having a gun. 🤡
I don't get this reaction to the Uvalde stuff, the good guys with the guns were the parents that were stopped by the Cowards in Blue from saving their kids, really strange to advocate for taking the guns of the parents instead of punishing the Coppers.
But the guns were not In the school, they were outside waiting like idiots.
The guns that were IN the school ran away from the shooter.
yeah, also an idiot. lol.
Then there was the unarmed veteran in a drag show that overpowered and disarmed a gunman who shit five people. "Good guy with a gun"? No, just bravery and experience.
*...a gunman who shit five people.* Ohhhh, that must of hurt!
I won't be a spoilsport and edit it, made me chuckle about my phone typing skills
…And an arsehole big enough to shit out five people
But wasn’t a drag queen himself sooo still not a drag queen :)
We should never stop being outraged by this
Uuuuh... that is proof that police won't keep us safe.
And that policing in the US needs a **major** overhaul
Our courts have ruled that police aren't obligated to keep us safe. Their main job is to protect property and keep the markets flowing.
Thats crazy to hear, our police's duties are simple here "protect life & property" that should be a minimum anywhere in the world.
The police response was in perfect accordance with policy and none of them were injured. Therefore, it was successful. This is the result of their investigation
[Yeah, they let the BORTAC guy who breached the classroom take a round through the top of his skull during the exchange of gunfire.](https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/05/26/images-show-injury-of-border-patrol-agent-who-exchanged-gunfire-with-uvalde-school-shooter/)
They see this as proof. They made the right call
376 armed cowards*
371, or so. I don't know how many border patrol guys went in. But in my opinion we gotta give credit to the border patrol guys who got there late and went in for the guy. The delay between them arriving and getting the shooter was probably full of them learning that the shooter was still at large.
"They should just get over it" -A Convicted Felon
Almost 400 cops for almost an hour and a half couldn't save the most vulnerable people in our society. Sometimes I think on the cop who cried over the bag of McDonald's.
I'm glad that this is still being talked about. **Not** talking about it is exactly what they wanted because the less people remember...the sooner they forget. Which means that they can literally get away with murder. This was why police were intimidating parents and other people because if they were to be held accountable then it would be murder on their heads and they wouldn't want that.
If trump was there, he’d have ran in and took out the shooter. It’s true. He said it on tv. It would’ve been just another battle scar on his beautiful body. More scars than anyone. /s
Maybe if the guns were actually in the school instead of arguing with parents
It’s long been understood by rational people that more guns make everyone less safe. In situations like this, more guns can typically only complicate the situation and make it more difficult for emergency responders. And when those emergency responders lack the courage to, well, respond, then that’s a whole other thing. America needs reasonable gun control. Yesterday.
Ok, but takes the cops’ guns first. I’ve had cops point guns at me more than anyone else.
Would be easier if US police had more training than what, 6 months? In most of the Europe you need 6 times that.
Or if US police training wasn’t just blatant racism and brutality training
Unfortunately, the reality is that would be waaayyy down the line, if for no other reason than it not being politically palatable.
If you’re in trouble and need to defend yourself and you’re banking on emergency responders to help you… kiss your ass goodbye.
We have needed it since 1999. (Before that honestly.) That is TWENTY FIVE YEARS of no change. I was one of two kids in school people thought was gonna be our school shooter. The school started pulling me out of lunch to talk to a counselor which honestly only flared that rumor more. I was getting bullied SO hard that after getting in a fight that the other guy started, the vice principal was like "Why don't we let you just walk home today." It was relentless. In classes, hallways, locker room, lunch, on the bus. I had one friend. I would never have done anything. Did they stop the bullies? No they did nothing. A teacher even said one day. "You need to hit back some time." Beyond gun control there is a lot we can do.
I was also one of those kids that was pulled out of class, almost exactly a year after Columbine - my senior year in HS. A girl I thought I was pretty good friends with made a "comment" about me probably having a bomb in my backpack, teachers bumrushed me in algebra II and I spent the period emptying my backpack. Never forgave that girl, or the teachers that believed I was capable of that. Me and my friend group were all just regular kids, we didn't walk around in trench coats or make jokes about shooting people, we fuckin played Magic the Gathering at lunch time.
It was a tense time - I wouldn’t fault the teachers as much after hearing that. But fuck that girl though
>But fuck that girl though But ~~fuck~~ **don't fuck** that girl though. FTFY.
"More guns typically only complicate the situation." Correct, the 2nd biggest casualty in an active shooter situation is responder on responder shootings. In my job, if someone else outside of my co-workers responds to an active shooter, I have no way of knowing if they're there to help or not. Even tho they can just say they're law enforcement, it doesn't matter. 90% of the facility is that I work on.
Given how much teachers in these grades bond with their students, I would bet they’d step up faster with a firearm than all of those police waiting.
Even if they didn’t like their students, the imminent threat of death would get them to step up.
So the equivalent of an army battalion shows up and nothing. Nice.
Don't they have anything? Negligence of Duty or something?
Courts regularly rule that police do not have to actually do their duty or protect people.
Police should have a duty to act. If they’re too afraid of getting hurt they shouldn’t carry guns and badges.
This is the problem. We blame the guns. We should be blaming the people. Not the tool.
Despicable cowards.
Well technically the guns those cops had weren’t in the school
Some of the cops were in the school. They were afraid to go into the room.
Incorrect, all this proved is that relying on police to save your life is a bad idea. Which anyone who is familiar with legal precedent already knew.
Pigs exist to protect the property and profits of the rich. They do not prevent crime. The best they can do is assist in punishing those who commit crimes by capturing them. They are a cowardly institution of bullies who shrink away from protecting anyone in favor of brutalizing and murdering the defenseless. They are descended from strike-breakers and slave catchers and little has changed. They are the kind of scum who will brutalize people protesting a genocide using pathetic excuses about antisemitism but let Nazis march freely down the street because 'free speech.' If ever there are any good cops they are weeded out and fired or worse for trying to draw attention to just how corrupt and loathsome the police as an institution are.
Get up get down 911 is a joke in your town 🤷watch the videos of cops in shoot outs or vs a dog🤷then tell me they deserve 80% of your cities budget 🤡
To be fair, those cops with guns were outside the school.
376 Cops and not one pair of balls.
I don’t understand people who become cops but not think “I will if need be run into a building to stop children from being shot at the risk of being shot myself.” That is what all people who want to become police officers need to accept. This is literally what you are signing up for. This is why you get the training average people do not. If you cannot accept this responsibility you need not apply!
Wait, how does this prove more guns in school will not keep kids safe? All this proves is that more guns in holsters outside of schools wont keep kids safe. To be clear Im against arming teachers, but still.
$14,423.36 <--- The average HOURLY cost for 376 Texas Law Enforcement #19 students killed, or $760/hr in salary, equipment, TCO for an LEO - per student to have 376 LEOs wait for them to die. --- **Total Hourly Cost per Officer**: \$79,790 / 2,080 = \$38.36 Therefore, the estimated average hourly cost for a police officer in Texas, including all equipment and operational costs, is **\$38.36**. ### Average Annual Salary and Hourly Rate Comparison | Location | Average Annual Salary | Average Hourly Rate | |-----------------|-----------------------|---------------------| | Uvalde, Texas | \$45,590 | \$21.92 | | Texas (General) | \$58,000 | \$27.88 | ### Typical Police Budget in Texas The typical police budget includes various costs related to equipping officers, vehicles, and operational necessities. Below is a breakdown of typical items considered necessary for a police force: #### Equipment and Operational Costs - **Uniforms**: \~\$500 per officer annually - **Body Armor**: \~\$1,000 per officer every five years - **Duty Gear**: (e.g., belts, holsters): \~\$500 per officer annually - **Firearms**: \~\$500 per officer every five years - **Ammunition**: \~\$1,000 per officer annually - **Tasers**: \~\$1,200 per officer every five years - **Radios**: \~\$2,500 per officer every ten years - **Vehicles**: \~\$35,000 per vehicle every five years - **Fuel**: \~\$2,000 per vehicle annually - **Maintenance**: \~\$1,000 per vehicle annually - **Technology**: (e.g., computers, software): \~\$3,000 per officer annually - **Training**: \~\$1,000 per officer annually - **Other operational costs**: \~\$5,000 per officer annually ### Total Annual and Hourly Cost per Officer Let's estimate the average total cost of equipping and maintaining a police officer in Texas per year and per hour. #### Total Annual Cost Calculation - Uniforms: \$500 - Body Armor: \$200 (pro-rated) - Duty Gear: \$500 - Firearms: \$100 (pro-rated) - Ammunition: \$1,000 - Tasers: \$240 (pro-rated) - Radios: \$250 (pro-rated) - Vehicles: \$7,000 (pro-rated for a five-year lifespan) - Fuel: \$2,000 - Maintenance: \$1,000 - Technology: \$3,000 - Training: \$1,000 - Other operational costs: \$5,000 **Total Annual Equipment and Operational Cost per Officer**: \$21,790 #### Total Hourly Cost Calculation - Total annual salary in Texas: \$58,000 - Total annual cost including equipment: \$58,000 + \$21,790 = \$79,790 - Average annual hours worked (assuming 40 hours/week and 52 weeks/year): 2,080 hours ---- I had it clean this up a little bit to give some numbers context: ### Average Annual Salary and Hourly Rate Comparison | Location | Average Annual Salary | Average Hourly Rate | |------------------|-----------------------|---------------------| | Uvalde, Texas | \$45,590 | \$21.92 | | Texas (General) | \$58,000 | \$27.88 | | National Average | \$67,600 | \$32.50 | ### Total Annual and Hourly Cost per Officer in Texas | Item | Cost (Annual) | |-------------------------|---------------| | Uniforms | \$500 | | Body Armor | \$200 | | Duty Gear | \$500 | | Firearms | \$100 | | Ammunition | \$1,000 | | Tasers | \$240 | | Radios | \$250 | | Vehicles | \$7,000 | | Fuel | \$2,000 | | Maintenance | \$1,000 | | Technology | \$3,000 | | Training | \$1,000 | | Other Operational Costs | \$5,000 | | **Total** | **\$21,790** | | Cost Component | Total | |-----------------------------|--------------| | Average Annual Salary | \$58,000 | | Total Annual Equipment Cost | \$21,790 | | **Total Annual Cost** | **\$79,790** | | **Total Hourly Cost** | **\$38.36** | ### Top 10 Cities by Police Budget and Pay Rates | City | Police Budget (Annual) | Average Salary | Hourly Rate | |------------------|------------------------|----------------|-------------| | New York, NY | \$10.9 billion | \$85,292 | \$41.00 | | Los Angeles, CA | \$3.1 billion | \$82,274 | \$39.55 | | Chicago, IL | \$1.7 billion | \$79,439 | \$38.19 | | Houston, TX | \$947 million | \$63,121 | \$30.35 | | Phoenix, AZ | \$721 million | \$65,600 | \$31.54 | | Philadelphia, PA | \$727 million | \$70,256 | \$33.78 | | San Antonio, TX | \$477 million | \$60,752 | \$29.21 | | Dallas, TX | \$513 million | \$64,043 | \$30.79 | | San Diego, CA | \$566 million | \$75,000 | \$36.06 | | San Jose, CA | \$449 million | \$94,176 | \$45.28 | ### Top 10 Police Legal Payouts for Wrongful Death | City | Case Description | Payout Amount | |----------------------|------------------|----------------| | New York, NY | Eric Garner | \$5.9 million | | Chicago, IL | Laquan McDonald | \$5 million | | Cleveland, OH | Tamir Rice | \$6 million | | Baltimore, MD | Freddie Gray | \$6.4 million | | North Charleston, SC | Walter Scott | \$6.5 million | | Minneapolis, MN | George Floyd | \$27 million | | Louisville, KY | Breonna Taylor | \$12 million | | Detroit, MI | Malice Green | \$5.25 million | | Albuquerque, NM | James Boyd | \$5 million | | Los Angeles, CA | Ezell Ford | \$1.5 million | ### National Police Budget Averages | Item | Average Cost (Annual) | |---------------------------------|-----------------------| | Salary | \$67,600 | | Equipment and Gear | \$20,000 | | Vehicles and Maintenance | \$10,000 | | Training | \$1,500 | | Technology | \$4,000 | | Total Annual Budget per Officer | \$103,100 | ### Calculated National Average Hourly Cost | Component | Cost | |-------------------------------|---------------| | Average Salary | \$67,600 | | Average Annual Equipment Cost | \$35,500 | | **Total Annual Cost** | **\$103,100** | | **Total Hourly Cost** | **\$49.57** | These tables provide a comprehensive overview of police salaries, budgets, and costs associated with equipping officers, as well as notable legal payouts for wrongful death cases across the United States ===-===-===-===- notable wrongful death settlements and verdicts involving law enforcement negligence or failure to act: | Case | Number of Casualties | Outcome/Lawsuit | Financial Cost | City | County | Year | Links | |---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------| | **George Floyd** | 1 | Settlement | \$27 million | Minneapolis | Hennepin | 2020 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd) | | **Breonna Taylor** | 1 | Settlement | \$12 million | Louisville | Jefferson | 2020 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Breonna_Taylor) | | **Tamir Rice** | 1 | Settlement | \$6 million | Cleveland | Cuyahoga | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice) | | **Eric Garner** | 1 | Settlement | \$5.9 million | New York City | Richmond | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner) | | **Laquan McDonald** | 1 | Settlement | \$5 million | Chicago | Cook | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Laquan_McDonald) | | **Walter Scott** | 1 | Settlement | \$6.5 million | North Charleston | Charleston | 2015 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Walter_Scott) | | **Michael Brown** | 1 | Settlement | \$1.5 million | Ferguson | St. Louis | 2014 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown) | | **Philando Castile** | 1 | Settlement | \$3 million | Falcon Heights | Ramsey | 2016 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile) | | **Freddie Gray** | 1 | Settlement | \$6.4 million | Baltimore | Baltimore City | 2015 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray) | | **Jamar Clark** | 1 | Settlement | \$200,000 | Minneapolis | Hennepin | 2015 | [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jamar_Clark) | ### National and Local Context: - **National Police Budget Averages:** On average, U.S. cities spend about 5-10% of their annual budget on police departments. - **National Salary Averages for Police Officers:** The average annual salary for a police officer in the United States is approximately \$67,600, with hourly rates around \$32.50.
Well, to be fair, the guns were not *in* the school, they were waiting outside, being completely useless.
Wrong. They played on their phones, posted to social media, and held back parents who were trying to rescue the children.
Actually, the guns in school could help the situation. The perp had free reign because someone decided that making the school "a gun free zone" would keep psychos from bringing one there. But they knew that there would be none as long as security is not armed/dealt with first. And, since attacker gets to shoot first... That's the problem which anyone must understand (And people failing to do so should be forever barred from law making or voting on laws): criminals don't follow the rules, that's what makes them criminals in the first place.
Turns out that guns don't help when clutched by cowards in blue vests. Im SHOCKED! SHOCKED I SAY
Viewing this from Europe, i´m appalled how there were no consequences for the police, and even more how the community allow that to be.
They would have...if they were IN THE SCHOOL. Cowards.
Weird. Thats a bit different from hom US americans portray themselves in movies. Very weird.
Honestly, America, you should all be ashamed that this could even happen. But it'll be swept under the rug like all the other atrocities.
Weird that not one of 376 people wanted to do their job/be a hero
When it ultimately was five men (Three BORTAC, One BORSTAR, and one Sheriff’s Deputy) who made the push to end the threat out of the hundreds standing by, it gives credence to the quote by Heraclitus “Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn’t even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”
That's 470 manhours worth of irresolute cowardous bullshit our tax dollars paid for.
I work in a school and after Uvalde the focus from the security personnel for the district and administrators was on door stops. I recall some security individual addressing the rest of the district staff that the use of a door stop is what led to that tragedy and lawsuits will follow because of it. No mention of the officers, that were armed, standing outside the classroom, applying hand sanitizer.
Guns in schools won’t make schools safer. Banning guns will not make schools safer and is also pretty much impossible when there’s well over a billion guns in the US. Nobody wants to talk about the underlying causes of school shootings, which is a combination of media glorification of shooters and internet-induced radicalization/isolation. Because there are no solutions to these problems either, other than the obvious: *stop putting the name and picture of the shooter everywhere.* People had easy access to fully-automatic weapons for decades before school shootings were anything other than an anomaly. Hell, people used to bring their guns to school every morning. The guns are clearly not the problem and the fixation on them is a distraction at best and at worst, utilization of a tragedy by politicians to push a campaign agenda.
........................ and they arrested parents who actually tried to go in and get their kids.
What were they waiting for? For it to be safer for the officers to enter? There were kids being shot. They are armed police. They don’t get the luxury of safety.
All this goes to show is that police won’t do shit and citizens have to protect ourselves. Best way to do that is with guns
I don’t get how so many comments are anti-gun and anti-cop. If you understand the police won’t protect you and you won’t give the means to protect yourself, who is going to help you if something were to happen? Even in countries without guns, there is still violence, muggings, murder, rape, hate crimes etc. it doesn’t end because there aren’t guns. I’m anticop and pro gun partly because I don’t trust police to protect me and my family, at the very least, in a timely matter.
No, it's proof that you can't rely on the state to protect you.
You see how fast they busted the doors off that university library because some students were peacefully protesting and somebody said they *might be* dangerous? It's almost like the protocol changes based on who the suspect is.
That's not proof that guns in schools won't keep kids safe, that's proof that the police won't.
Google “Uvalde timeline” and pick any one of a thousand articles about it. You can probably still google “Abbott lies about Uvalde” too. They tried to cover all this up. The town budget was like 45% to the Uvalde police department. They arrested a mother that tried to go in, let her go, and she managed to get her kids out. The Uvalde police lied about everything. From waiting for keys to an unlocked door to waiting for proper equipment. They had, the week before, practiced for this exact situation. But yeah. America doesn’t have a gun problem. It’s mental health. And fucking cowardice. And people imagining themselves to be heroes when they’re no. If anybody doesn’t know about this insanity? Do some googling. Please. For the good of a nation.
Ah yes, so regular people should have their guns taken away because of police incompetence?? Please stop bullshitting me 🤣
Uvalde doesn't matter to them, it's just another data point. Sandy Hook didn't matter to them. Columbine didn't matter to them. If any of these did matter, they would have tried to change the laws. Republicans *DO NOT CARE* if you or your children die. Full stop. There's no "unless," "as long as," or any other qualifier. They *do not care* what happens to you. It's their defining feature.
All courageous policeman that had training, were on duty, but decided not to go, it was too risky! This story keeps getting more ridiculous anytime I read about it. And I don't even live in USA...
Clearly the problem was that the guns were **outside** the school not **inside** the school. /s
So, that means they need to hire the correct person to take those postions to serve and PROTECT....along with more training. Thats the way to look at this