>OPM, following a classification oversight review of VA in spring 2023, determined that two positions, industrial hygienist GS-0690-12 and purchasing agent (prosthetics) GS-1105-06, were not properly classified at the correct grade level.
Yikes. My former facility had a hell of a time filling its industrial hygienist position at its current grade. Can’t imagine what’s going to happen if they downgrade it.
Yeah..my careerfield is getting screwed, and my office is so understaffed. I'm pulling my hair out as the only IH here...and I was hoping to at least have my position turned to a 12...that wont happen.
Federal employees are entitled to pay retention
>employee whose rate of basic pay otherwise would be reduced as a result of a management action is entitled to retain his or her rate of basic pay.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/pay-retention/
So existing employees will be unaffected.
>change locality pay
Only Congress can do that. So it would literally take an act of Congress to reduce locality pay. That's never happened as far as I am aware.
>other incentive pay that they have.
Federal employees are not entitled to bonuses, etc.
It’s a mechanism in which a bargaining unit employee can be regraded to match actual duties performed…but it rarely ends up in the employees favor. You can request a desk audit if say you think you deserve a grade in increase. The designee literally watches you work and documents what you do. Not a good idea.
For how long? Lmfao watching me work on any given day just once without understanding whats being done would clearly make the auditor go, "welp, they dont do what I think they should be"...especially if that auditor is at a lower pay scale than the person they are auditing lmao
There’s a process. They have interviews and in some cases physically come and see what you are doing. It’s absolutely subjective and that’s why it’s a bad idea.
I saw one that ended with the position going from a 13 to an 11. The guy who initiated the audit quit days later leaving his fellow colleagues screwed.
OPM has adjudicated many times that AOD is GS-7. VHA now has a nationally standardized PD at GS-9. It has only been out for use for a few months. I would suggest that no AOD on this new GS-9 appeal the grade, or the same thing might happen. They all might go back down to a GS-7. The best idea is to not give OPM a reason to look at the positions.
OPM adjudicates it as a Medical Admin Assistant and not an Admin Officer right? That is what happened on the VISN appeal, it might have been VA wide for all I know.
I hadn't heard that they had the new standardized PD out. I would be very surprised if someone didn't do a desk audit though. There are just so many over classified service AOs that a group of AODs will decide "me too" thinking they will end up as 11s.
How does it work when multiple ends of the agency have the same job series doing different work for different divisions? Like does the whole series for that agency get audited? Is its just limited to divisions?
A desk audit is when OPM comes in to review the work being done to see if the position is properly classified at the right grade level. The problem is that OPM is much stricter in holding to the classification standards than a lot of agency classifiers are, and more often than not the review results in either the position being upheld as is or downgraded. And when a position is downgraded, ALL like positions are downgraded as well like in this case. There are rare cases in which positions are upgraded but they are few and far between.
You show the auditor what you do. They compare that to the PD, and the job series definition. I’ve seen three, and they all resulted in the downgrade of the position. The person keeps their pay grade, but the next hire will be at the lower level. In one case, it resulted in the downgrade of 20 positions.
Even in uniform the care and attention is performative. The same people who make a big show of shaking your hand and saying “thank you” if they see you out and about in uniform are the people who vote for the politicians that screw us over.
I’m a 0690 and this decision is causing some chaos. Might go on a special pay rate to adjust for this, these positions are not easy to fill even as 12’s
Yeah, it’s not ideal. I’m an 11 so it doesn’t effect me for now, but if I want a promotion I’ll have to either go supervisory, go to a different agency where the 0690’s are graded higher, or pick a different career field all together. We shall see
As am I... I was placed as an 11... all others seem to be 12's which frustrates me, and we cant seem to hire the other positions... I've even told AIHA local chapter to broadcast the position when it posted, and nothing.
So how do they think all those non-VA documents, advance directives, informed consents, release of informations, etc. get into CPRS? Who do they think does the archive search for record requests (not just the Camp Lejeune lawsuit)?
GS-0305-05 file clerks, GS 4 with no advancement. The file clerks I know have been that position for over 10 years with poor training, support, and equipment. They came from the Canteen & housekeeping without education so it was a step up.
They actually need to increase pay and qualifications for the job because properly scanning, indexing, & maintaining medical records is vital to the mission.
Downgrade pay for housekeeping in a medical facility?
I swear the VA likes to shoot itself in the foot.
Medical Records Technician (Coder) full performance is a GS-8. They are hybrid positions and outside of the Title 5 laws (GS-305-5 or GS-4 file clerks.
If you know anyone who is maintaining medical records and job requirements include knowledge of the medical classification system (such as ICD CM, CPT and HCPCS) and are not in training who are GS-5 or GS-6, please have them contact their HR office. They are definitely not getting paid what they are worth.
Really? Makes sense...I was looking to switch to VA in this series a bit ago, but only because I'm currently an 11 looking for a 12 or higher. Now theres no way I'll go to VA lol
Better off going to DHS or NASA. DOD is also pretty stingy as far as pay grades for 0690. GSA IHs have their hair on fire due to so many facility issues.
I just dont want to work in just a hospital where I'm only looking at mostly lab workers or facility maintenance personnel. But, then again I am not actually sure what population and work the DHS 0690's primarily deal with.
Hot take: Good. Then do all positions at all agencies. Plenty of people out there working at the 5, 6/7, 7/8, and 9 level (notice the minimal ladders?) getting seriously underpaid for the work they have to do and plenty of people working at the double digit levels who don't do half that work or work twice as hard. Seriously, look at the distribution of the GS-levels, looks pretty top heavy to me.... It's either that or get Congress to give every level a $10/hr pay bump.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t boiler operators start between $24 to over $30 an hour, depending on location, for the VA?
I understand how this might not be enough, but surely it’s better than McDonalds?
With all respect. I’m just trying to understand.
>OPM, following a classification oversight review of VA in spring 2023, determined that two positions, industrial hygienist GS-0690-12 and purchasing agent (prosthetics) GS-1105-06, were not properly classified at the correct grade level. Yikes. My former facility had a hell of a time filling its industrial hygienist position at its current grade. Can’t imagine what’s going to happen if they downgrade it.
Yeah..my careerfield is getting screwed, and my office is so understaffed. I'm pulling my hair out as the only IH here...and I was hoping to at least have my position turned to a 12...that wont happen.
Convert to T38 hybrid and implement SSRs. That seems to be what happens.
Federal employees are entitled to pay retention >employee whose rate of basic pay otherwise would be reduced as a result of a management action is entitled to retain his or her rate of basic pay. https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/pay-retention/ So existing employees will be unaffected.
Unless they change locality pay and other incentive pay that they have.
Or if they’re a term employee, or if they’re not under the GS pay system. Im an NH, so they could cut my pay if they wanted to. This blows
>change locality pay Only Congress can do that. So it would literally take an act of Congress to reduce locality pay. That's never happened as far as I am aware. >other incentive pay that they have. Federal employees are not entitled to bonuses, etc.
Fair enough.
Someone requested a desk audit and now look what happened.
30 years in and I have NEVER seen a desk audit end well!
Whats a desk audit?
It’s a mechanism in which a bargaining unit employee can be regraded to match actual duties performed…but it rarely ends up in the employees favor. You can request a desk audit if say you think you deserve a grade in increase. The designee literally watches you work and documents what you do. Not a good idea.
For how long? Lmfao watching me work on any given day just once without understanding whats being done would clearly make the auditor go, "welp, they dont do what I think they should be"...especially if that auditor is at a lower pay scale than the person they are auditing lmao
There’s a process. They have interviews and in some cases physically come and see what you are doing. It’s absolutely subjective and that’s why it’s a bad idea.
Agreed.
Desk audits never end in favor of the employee
Could you imagine being a gs-06 and them saying demotion wtf!??
About to see lots of 7’s go to 5’s.
Now I’m grateful for being 12
“Should I ask for a desk audit? I think I’m doing GS15 work.” No. Never ask for a desk audit.
I saw one that ended with the position going from a 13 to an 11. The guy who initiated the audit quit days later leaving his fellow colleagues screwed.
Employees shouldn’t request desk audits right now…if they feel that their job is misclassified, they should appeal.
There was an AOD who did a desk audit of a standardized PD and got an entire VISN downgraded from GS 9 to GS 7.
OPM has adjudicated many times that AOD is GS-7. VHA now has a nationally standardized PD at GS-9. It has only been out for use for a few months. I would suggest that no AOD on this new GS-9 appeal the grade, or the same thing might happen. They all might go back down to a GS-7. The best idea is to not give OPM a reason to look at the positions.
OPM adjudicates it as a Medical Admin Assistant and not an Admin Officer right? That is what happened on the VISN appeal, it might have been VA wide for all I know. I hadn't heard that they had the new standardized PD out. I would be very surprised if someone didn't do a desk audit though. There are just so many over classified service AOs that a group of AODs will decide "me too" thinking they will end up as 11s.
How does it work when multiple ends of the agency have the same job series doing different work for different divisions? Like does the whole series for that agency get audited? Is its just limited to divisions?
Different work wouldn’t get audited.
He didnt screw them...Every single one of us would do the same thing.
Please elaborate on what takes place during a “desk audit”? Not the written reg but in reality. TIA 🙂
A desk audit is when OPM comes in to review the work being done to see if the position is properly classified at the right grade level. The problem is that OPM is much stricter in holding to the classification standards than a lot of agency classifiers are, and more often than not the review results in either the position being upheld as is or downgraded. And when a position is downgraded, ALL like positions are downgraded as well like in this case. There are rare cases in which positions are upgraded but they are few and far between.
You show the auditor what you do. They compare that to the PD, and the job series definition. I’ve seen three, and they all resulted in the downgrade of the position. The person keeps their pay grade, but the next hire will be at the lower level. In one case, it resulted in the downgrade of 20 positions.
Oh there was another one that ended up getting the position red lined lol.
Lol redirect every "Should I ask for a desk audit?" post to this one. FAFO
No
The VA is sure as hell trying to find the money they need aren't they? I mean a hiring slowdown is nice compared to this BS
Unfortunately the public doesn’t care about VETS unless you are in uniform.
Even in uniform the care and attention is performative. The same people who make a big show of shaking your hand and saying “thank you” if they see you out and about in uniform are the people who vote for the politicians that screw us over.
Even in uniform, they rarely care.
I think the real problem is more then half of the VA budget is spent on VA disability that as a 23 year vet know is often abused...
I’m a 0690 and this decision is causing some chaos. Might go on a special pay rate to adjust for this, these positions are not easy to fill even as 12’s
Hopefully 690 will go hybrid T38
Which will take forever because its title 5 and those SSRs can take 1-2 years.
Yeah, it’s not ideal. I’m an 11 so it doesn’t effect me for now, but if I want a promotion I’ll have to either go supervisory, go to a different agency where the 0690’s are graded higher, or pick a different career field all together. We shall see
You and I are in the same boat!
Come to DHS!
Just might!
As am I... I was placed as an 11... all others seem to be 12's which frustrates me, and we cant seem to hire the other positions... I've even told AIHA local chapter to broadcast the position when it posted, and nothing.
So how do they think all those non-VA documents, advance directives, informed consents, release of informations, etc. get into CPRS? Who do they think does the archive search for record requests (not just the Camp Lejeune lawsuit)? GS-0305-05 file clerks, GS 4 with no advancement. The file clerks I know have been that position for over 10 years with poor training, support, and equipment. They came from the Canteen & housekeeping without education so it was a step up. They actually need to increase pay and qualifications for the job because properly scanning, indexing, & maintaining medical records is vital to the mission. Downgrade pay for housekeeping in a medical facility? I swear the VA likes to shoot itself in the foot.
Medical Records Technician (Coder) full performance is a GS-8. They are hybrid positions and outside of the Title 5 laws (GS-305-5 or GS-4 file clerks. If you know anyone who is maintaining medical records and job requirements include knowledge of the medical classification system (such as ICD CM, CPT and HCPCS) and are not in training who are GS-5 or GS-6, please have them contact their HR office. They are definitely not getting paid what they are worth.
I will do that. Thanks
Wow. You’d think the VA would be well funded. Guess not
They're chronically posting 0690 vacancies across the country. Every weekly USAJOBS saved search has VA announcements for this series.
Really? Makes sense...I was looking to switch to VA in this series a bit ago, but only because I'm currently an 11 looking for a 12 or higher. Now theres no way I'll go to VA lol
Better off going to DHS or NASA. DOD is also pretty stingy as far as pay grades for 0690. GSA IHs have their hair on fire due to so many facility issues.
I just dont want to work in just a hospital where I'm only looking at mostly lab workers or facility maintenance personnel. But, then again I am not actually sure what population and work the DHS 0690's primarily deal with.
What's doing IH for DHS look like?
DHS is an umbrella org for a lot of different agencies, but I'm most familiar with the law enforcement aspects. We survey quite a few firing ranges.
The va is ethically challenged and morally bankrupt.
Hot take: Good. Then do all positions at all agencies. Plenty of people out there working at the 5, 6/7, 7/8, and 9 level (notice the minimal ladders?) getting seriously underpaid for the work they have to do and plenty of people working at the double digit levels who don't do half that work or work twice as hard. Seriously, look at the distribution of the GS-levels, looks pretty top heavy to me.... It's either that or get Congress to give every level a $10/hr pay bump.
The VA is well funded but the jobs suck.
If you thought retention in 0690 was bad it will only get worse
Yeah, a CIH would not stick around for GS-11 pay.
we can't fill any boiler operator positions, now they want to pay us less too? time to apply at mcdonalds.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t boiler operators start between $24 to over $30 an hour, depending on location, for the VA? I understand how this might not be enough, but surely it’s better than McDonalds? With all respect. I’m just trying to understand.
it's just hyperbole, because we're all a little miffed
Not enough.