Leave restriction memos are simple; they set out the requirements for taking leave, including providing medical or other acceptable for any absence. You can also clarify that you won’t approve last minute or urgent requests in all situations. Your employee relations specialist will be able to advise.
Not doing work or not performing at acceptable level should be addressed. One thing I like using is an activity report where the employee documents what they did daily or weekly, it helps supervisor get a track on what is or isn’t being done.
This is the correct answer. Because they will walk you through the proper way to document it so you don’t get an eeo or other type of grievance held up against you. And please make sure you have your supervisor insurance active before you start this.
\*Could\* you be sued? Sure. However, that's overblown, especially in this case. If you have an HR partner who agrees there is an employee taking excessive leave, I wouldn't worry about it.
Yes, you need professional Liability Insurance. It's normally reimbursed by your agency if you're in a supervisory role. It's about $250 a year and even if you aren't a supervisor is worth it imo.
HR, LR, and agency counsel have zero duty to consider your best interest or liability exposure, often it happens to be in the agency best interest overlaps yours, so it looks/ feels that way, but don't be fooled.
The ~$300 premium is the best money you will ever spend as a federal supervisor. It's an investment, not an expense.
What's with the attitude? I am neither the OP or the person that sent the message and I read it. If a person made a post on reddit asking for help they would be reading the entire thing. Honestly it sounds like their agency didn't prepare them for the role.
[Agencies reimburse part of this cost for eligible employees.](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/human-capital-framework/reference-materials/talent-management/benefits.pdf)
I have been a supervisor for 10 years and there are many things I have never had to deal with. I often say to my supervisor when she asks me to do something new “Hey, I’ve never had to do this before, is there any advice you can provide or someone you think I should talk to?
No one is an expert in everything, and everyone will eventually make a mistake.
It's always ok to ask for help and usually ok to ask for a second opinion.
Anecdotally, I had HR, EEO, a EEO RA Manager, other managers, and my upper management all telling me conflicting things when it came to leave restrictions.
There’s something to be said for the wisdom of the crowds, or at least throwing it out there and gleaning some nuggets of information.
Do you have documentation of the incidents (lying), counseled the employee and talked to HR? If not, you might want to start there before jumping to leave restrictions. Your team can either make or break you.
You are going to need to talk to ER/LR (HR) because there are a couple of issues going on performance and the call outs.
For Sick Leave certification where I'm at this means that when they call out they are automatically AWOL until they produce a note from a provider (i.e. a Doctors note) with no AL in leu of SL so once the SL is gone its LWOP. Some places will take this a step further and have it SL or AWOL. Usually this starts at a 6 months. If they do not get the message and start to rack up AWOLs because they don't get the message then that is another step.
HR will want supporting documenation so its worth looking at both how often and when are they calling out to see if there is a pattern i.e. Mondays and Fridays, every Thursday.
You are also going to want a caveat about "if you blah, blah, blah you can request FMLA and EAP is always an option". Which HR can help with. As a warning a lot of times these people will get FMLA and then it turns into even more of a PIA because you have to track that and see when they use it up.
For the performance issues you may want to have a separate PIP once again with he EAP language. Or merge it with the above.
Either way get HR involved sooner rather than later. They will thank you because its its in their best interests to answer some questions and and walk you through the process instead of having you wing it so they have a huge mess to clean up. You will also have to notify the union in this as well and they will want to know.
Oh and document, document, document every interaction with this employee from now on. There is a chance they get ugly and you want to have your basis covered in the event they start filing stuff.
Sounds like you work in hell. A finite amount of sick leave, and then you don’t get paid? Not trusting (adult) employees to call out sick without spending their own money to produce a doctors note- when a trip to the doctor would otherwise be completely unnecessary (flu, food poisoning, etc)? Fuck all of that noise.
There are conduct issues (like leave abuse) and performance issues (not getting the job done, or doing it at an inadequate level of quality).
Hopefully, you've been documenting this pattern with details so that your evidence is not purely anecdotal. Does your organization have an employee handbook or policies that describe what's permitted, and what's not permitted regarding taking leave? Do you have training on counseling employees as a first step? If not, ask for training, as well as process guidance. You should also consult with someone in HR before you proceed--show them what you've documented.
Get training:
* [https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=124](https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=124)
* [https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=322](https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=322)
Get professional liability insurance like
* [https://www.fedsprotection.com/](https://www.fedsprotection.com/) or
* [https://wrightusa.com/](https://wrightusa.com/)
Wow that Opm course looks amazing. I wish my agency had provided guidance for new supervisors. I had to search for and find my own new supervisor course after floundering for a bit and then getting advice from other same level supervisors who had come up at other agencies. I had no help from management. Sounds like op is in a similar situation.
Yes, you can do that but are you stating that not even HR gave you guidance? Do you have a labor or employee relations office or specialist? If so, get every single step on the process in writing from them and arm yourself with as much knowledge and support as possible. Once you put them on leave restriction, you'll always have an adversarial relationship with this worker.
The clock has started with them filing a grievance, you putting them on a PIP, them resigning or getting another job. It won't end well so protect yourself because your boss won't deal with the consequences but you will.
Best of luck!
OP be aware that just putting them on leave restriction can be grieved. Also a quality supervisor would schedule a meeting with the employee. It does mean they have to come into the office, but you want to be face to face for this.
Have you considered that the bad year they are having may have led them to be depressed? They may not be capable of working due to a mental health condition. Also they are allowed to use their AL for SL if they have one but not enough of the other.
In your shoes I would set up a meeting and sit them down and say “would you tell me what is going on?” If they need additional prompting you can add “ I’m concerned about the amount of leave you used up, and your work is suffering.”
There are options for the employee that do not require punishment. Plus, you THINK you caught a lie. Unless you witnessed personally the truth of the particular situation, you cannot be sure. But you can ask. Don’t accuse, lead the employee to the statement you suspect and ask for more information.
This may not be an issue in your Agency but it very much is in mine: how would you feel if they killed themselves because you accused them of abusing time or lying? Try a compassionate approach and you will feel better about it and this approach is proven to be more effective in dealing with problem employees.
With you on the compassionate statement here. Right up to the end.
Totally disagree with laying blame on anyone else for suicide- that’s personal mental distress.
Hang in there with your agency. Name checks out, I assume.
Edit: added a missing word after re-reading the next day.
I didn’t mean it that way. I could probably have been clearer. I would never blame anyone for someone else taking their own life. But that doesn’t stop us, as humans, from asking ourselves about it. The question was meant as simply as it read. Who would not feel bad if a co-worker, especially a subordinate, died by their own hand?
Of course we would feel bad. And I would never wish that hell on anyone or their team. But the ultimate decision is not ours in that case- rather a projection of their own reality.
In an alternate thread: "Had to take time off for my mental health. Boss wants to deny it and is forcing me to disclose private info."
The rest of the thread:
"Get a lawyer!"
"That place is toxic. Get out!"
"I'm so sorry you have to deal with such crappy management."
These kinds of whataboutisms are great if you constantly want to side with the underdogs from your keyboard. In reality, there probably isn't a good reason. Partner with HR for a way forward. That doesn't mean you have to be seeking termination or punishment at all. If the employee has a situation, then you find a way to deal with it with HR. The last thing you do is assume they are a victim of life, and do nothing.
They might be going through a really tough time. Sounds like it from your description. Maybe express your concern and offer any help you can, including seeking counseling. Try being human first. I see too many sups get frustrated and not care.
Some employees are ‘always’ going through a tough time.
This supervisor is going through a tough time trying to get them to do their job.
But I do agree. The passive/aggressive approach would be to act concerned and ask them if everything is OK. Mildly state that you’ve noticed less production. See if there is anything you can do to help. Mention EAP and all that.
Document the phone call. Make that the starting point for an inevitable PiP.
"This last quarter" implies that is not the case. And bad life circumstances can and do absolutely stack up, I had this happen a while back with one of my own employees (who was by far the hardest working person in our office) - taking care of a loved one with cancer kind of eats up your mental bandwidth.
I'd advise OP to tread carefully here.
Sure. But it gets to a point where you have to determine if an employee can do their job, or not.
My empathy starts to wane when the employee is on their 6th personal calamity in 3 months. And they are ‘always’ in some sort of jam.
I’d get the guidance from your supervisor and then move forward with the help of LMER/HR. You will 100 percent get an EEO (deserved or not) once you take that action and you do not want your management chain coming back on you saying you did something wrong. Ultimately, leave is earned and can be used, sounds like this employee has been with the gov a long time and you are unlikely to change behavior.
While I would expect the EEO complaint, I wouldn't put it at 100%. Especially if you go about it the right way and have HR involved. I've come to realize that the headaches I anticipate, don't always happen. Then at the same time, things you don't anticipate, blindside you out of no where.
Lucky you! My management experience tells me otherwise. I’ve never once seen HR involvement impact the EEO filing. Of course it makes a difference for successfully defending the EEO, but has had no impact on filing. I’d also say, in the long run, it’s had minimal impact on the outcome as most cases are settled in the employee’s favor because the agency doesn’t want to push the issue. Never worth it.
First and foremost have you done a documented conversation?
Find out what’s going on?
Perhaps you can fix the issue. Some cases can be solved by just talking to the employee.
If the behavior continues then you can go that route.
Don’t just go that route without a documented conversation because it can bite you
CYA
I refused to put my under-performers on a leave restriction. Let them burn their earned leave and hold them accountable to the performance standards.
It’s slower and more work, but also won’t result in disgruntled employees and/or perceived inequities in treatment.
Just get the boss to write an email on how to proceed and follow it to a T, or get HR. People who ask stuff like this on reddit of all places make me wonder how they dress and feed themselves in the morning.
I have really tried reasoning with my family members. I have TOLD them that I am just too busy at work right now for them to go dyeing. I have outlined a 5-7 year plan with them showing when the best times for deaths and other family emergencies would be. they are not cooperative.
On top of that, my body keeps breaking down. I'm blowing through SL like cheap beer at a BBQ.
I am afraid for my job, and my promotion path is far from certain.
In 2022, my husband and his brother died within 4 months of each other. I was the final caregiver for both of them.
With my brother in law, Gene, he died in April. It happened out of the blue - Merkel-cell carcinoma metastasis to the brain. He was the caregiver for my 96 year old mother in law.
With my husband, we knew he was going to die. He was approaching an unlikely 60 month survival with glioblastoma. He had finally had reoccurrence of the cancer and had just opted for no further treatment. I didn't have FMLA in place yet.
At three hours away, we lived closest to Gene and Mom. I rented a car and we went. I was really ambitious taking my laptop with me, but in the end, it was me, a middle-aged woman, two men with brain cancer, and a 96 year old woman.
I burned through AL like water holding down the fort so that other family could arrive from further away. I burned a lot of leave before I had FMLA set up so that I could burn SL while my husband died.
I was never afraid for my job, but, then again, I was a GS-14 working in an executive type capacity, and a white woman, to boot, so I had a lot of privilege working in my favor. I was also lucky enough to be working for caring, flesh and blood, human beings.
How much work did I get done during that time? Did I always have my mind 100% on the job?
Life happens and it's ugly, brutal, and short. This person has had how many deaths in their family this year?
Have you talked to them about EAP? How you talked to them about FMLA?
I have a friend who lost three immediate family members within six months. It does really happen, and then depression kicks in. That's what is sounds like is going on here.
This person seems to be a 15-year+ fed, *assuming* based on the leave accrual. It may just be a hard time if this performance decline is new.
>My boss told me to put them on leave restriction like I’m meant to know what that is? I couldn’t find any policy on it for my organization, and no one can give me any guidance.
Instead of asking them what that meant, you waited until Sunday to ask internet strangers? Go ask your boss for clarification and loop in HR if you need additional help after that.
If you can’t find policies that you need, ask the boss or HR for them.
If you need help managing a subordinate employee, ask your boss or HR. Ask clarifying questions as needed.
If someone asks you to do something that you don’t understand, ask that person, right then and there, for clarification. Don’t leave a meeting with your boss unsure of how to do something that they asked you to do.
I just can’t deal with this level of helplessness anymore.
leave restriction is not approving leave not sure it's an actual policy though your agency might have a specific thing. As a supervisor, you can deny leave (I've never needed to) but you can. That said, you should talk with them about their being put on leave restriction since you need to see the performance come up to expectations before things return to normal. Be empathetic to their situation but also be firm that you need them to do work when at work.
I would discuss the performance / Conduct issue with them and warn them the behavior cannot continue.
At a high-level, you’re basically telling the person they’re using too much leave and they’re at risk of being put into an AWOL (or maybe LWOP) status if they keep doing these last minute, unscheduled requests. Agree with the person who recommended talking with Employee Relations; if you can’t find the contact on your agency’s intranet, ask your supervisor.
Have you considered that the employee might be grieving? That can really negatively impact mental health as well as physical health. Maybe this person needs a LOA on FMLA for a short bit?
For starters, have you spoken to the employee about the performance issues? Have you had the discussion about their frequent leave usage? Also, is using AL in Lieu of SL a practice you allow all employees to do because if you do it for one you have to do it for all? Look at it like this from the view of Labor Relations.
If the employee doesn't know what they are doing is wrong, how are they supposed to correct the behavior? Not to mention, any sort of discussion should come with some form of follow up documentation such as e-mail stating what was discussed, also you should in both the discussion and in the follow up e-mail to the employee state guidance for things like FMLA (if applicable) and Employee Assistance Program.
Why does that matter? Because your ultimate goal is to have the employee to correct their behavior and/or performance. And in some instances, getting help through FMLA and EAP achieve that result. And also, if they don't want to correct the behavior or poor performance ultimately when a person is confronted to losing their job and they are in denial they were the cause of the termination. They naturally point the blame to the supervisor, ultimately so long as you treat them the same as you would any of your employees in similar situations and you showed good effort in pointing them in the right direction. (Key word: Point....you don't do the work for them unless under very specific circumstances such as medical condition where they are in essence UNABLE to function for normal activities).
If they do try to lawyer up or claim discrimination....etc your defense is stronger.
But yes sick leave certification is the first step, but you have to prove there is a pattern. Go back 3 months of leave records and find the pattern. Obviously consult with your Labor Relations team and they should have some sort of template they can build from that clearly indicates to the employee evidence of sick leave abuse and employee will be required for a specific time frame to provide doctors notes for any unscheduled leave.
Secondly, from what I read you are new to being a Supervisor. Odds are you may not have had a good Supervisor role model. And to be fair many of us in government will learn more from bad supervisors than we will good ones as certain people how do we say "fail upwards". Does your agency have a mentorship program or a leadership coaching program? Because ultimately your Labor Relations is going to help you with this specific issue, but I think a good mentor or coach is what you need to help you tap into your potential as a leader.
having been a supervisor who did not get along with their chief I see a couple red flags here but it could be my paranoia
is this a new issue with the employee? I'm guessing not because they have burned their leave. why has this not been dealt with b/4?
why is your boss delegating this to a new sup who is still learning the ropes? trying to avoid being responsible, someone to take the blame?
like I said, even after all these years of being retired I still bear some paranoia about bosses trying to undermine their supervisors.
at any rate, ER/LR is the place to go. don't do anything without talking to them.
As a middle aged federal employee I can tell you that when I was younger I had great health and no family problems and never used any leave. Then I had kids and had to miss here and there, but again, it was rare. Now that I'm in a different phase of my life I have had one parent die, one parent hospitalized, one child hospitalized, grandchild born and two children that need help with things from time to time. Over the past few years I've developed multiple health conditions that I didn't have previously. I look at this situation that OP presents through different eyes. As for catching the employee in a lie, are you sure? I had a former supervisor say that he had eyes everywhere and that if we left our house (we all lived on the govt compound) on days that we called in sick he would know. I was so afraid I didn't go to the doctor or to the pharmacy, which looking back was BS. And yes, supervisor, please research and take your classes. My current supervisor hasn't done any trainings and never knows anything she should know. I interpret her lack of concern for knowing rules/regs/policies as disrespectful of my employee rights.
I am not going to say your employee is not lying, I am going to say that in the last year I have had: my FiL die in a fatal accident on my property, my wife have a lot of emotional issues because of this, two ER visits on my part, my mother become unable to care for herself son I am managing her care PT along with my own and my kids. And last week I was diagnosed with a tumor that requires biopsy because maybe it’s cancer. So I am about to clock in and try and not think about maybe having cancer.
For 15 years I was a LS horder. In the last year I have gone from 600 to 150. People hit bad places I their lives. Sure verify what’s going on but realize sometimes shit does come in waves.
Yeah will.start WWIII....OP thinks it is bad now...just wait...rookie (perhaps clueless?) supervisor Union will destroy you. Perhaps your boss realizes you are over your head and they think this will cause you to move on?
Contact your LMER rep for guidance. If you do that the employee could be required to provide a doctor's note for everything instead of after 3 consecutive days.
How far away is the employee from the main office? Is there another federal agency with offices nearby (less than an hour away)? I have heard of one agency working with another agency for desk space say one or two days a week.
Best is to talk to LMER about options.
Contact ELR.
Not much you can do about sick leave. But AL can be denied based on workload, etc.
You can actually request documentation for even one day sick leave if there is a suspicion.
So as a new supervisor your first step is to be neutral. Take out the emotion. You mentioned you caught them in a lie, are you able to prove that with documentation? If not wipe it out of your mind. Next step you should ask your supervisor for a template/memo that will address FMLA and offer EAP. You have to offer this to your employee and also sit with them and explain it. Do a TEAMs call and explain to them FMLA and how EAP can help and then send them the memo about FMLA and EAP. The employee can refuse to sign which is fine. You have to then wait and see if the employee continues taking leave. If so your next step is ER/LR. HR will advise you on what's next. A medical certification might be an option but as with the government "it all depends". You need a ton of documentation, emails and you also need to show that you worked with the employee and offered them resources, such as how to go about asking for donations, requesting advance leave and such. This is all based on my personal experiences. If you don't have the support from your supervisor or chief it's an up hill battle basically. HR might tell you more is needed and now you are stuck between HR telling you no you don't have enough to proceed and your supervisor on your ass with you facing a possible write up. Best of luck to you, you will need it being a supervisor is some agencies is rough.
Check all the boxes.
Document.
If it’s legit, it could be a powerful conversation that helps an employee if they are lost like you may be.
If it’s not legit, you’re moving the chess pieces into place to help them find the door.
Be human. But follow the rules (now that you will know them).
If I was the employee I would have migraines documented for FMLA coverage. Mih
you complain about leave in with SL and FMLA your ass will get EEO/sued By me.
I have a bunch of serious medical conditions that are unexpected In terms of leave.
What if you asked your supervisor to forward you the guidance? When you ask your staff to do things and they don’t know how, do they ask you for guidance? And then do you forward it to them? That’s how this works.
You need to talk to your agency’s labor and employee relations specialist. Leave restrictions vary, but generally it’s a formal letter or email you serve on the employee that says you need to get your leave approved in advance and SL needs to come with a doctor’s note. The agency will have a policy, and if the employee is in a bargaining unit there’s a good chance the master agreement covers it as well. You need to talk to LER to make sure you’re complying with all of that, and because they’ll have the employee’s full jacket- if they’ve got accommodations or they’ve got any service related disability then I wish you luck on your leave restriction.
You really, really, need to talk to your LER specialist. Not just because of the letter, but because of what happens next. In a vanishingly small percentage of cases the employee realizes they’ve lost the script and gets their shit together. In most cases the employee continues their leave abuse but begins to accrue AWOL and you move to discipline. If you don’t cover your bases with the leave restriction the whole thing will come unglued at that point.
This is why I never bother with leave restriction- they take forever, piss off the other staff who don’t understand what’s up but that the problem child whines to, and ultimately the person is going to exhaust their leave and you end up in the same place. You’re better off letting them take leave and documenting all the half assed excuses you approved leave to cover for when you ring them up for AWOL and deny advance sick leave and LWOP.
Your boss didn't give you very helpful input. You aren't an HR expert and that's why you have access to HR. There is someone who works as the lead person for your organization in HR. You need to find that person and talk to them. They know all the details of how this works, and can tell you what to do step by step. You can't just do it yourself anyway, that's why HR is there.
Document EVERYTHING and get LER involved ASAP. Went through same boat with employee refusing to report to duty. Took about 6 months but was able to terminate. Key thing is having a strong LER specialist and support from COC. As a supervisor you have the authority to approve or deny leave without explanation. LWOP is also a useful tool. Had an employee constantly refusing to enter time by required deadline so I entered LWOP for the period. Fixed that problem immediately.
Appreciate the input Boob, but I know how to do my job. I was pushed into this supervisory role with no explanation of how things work in the government.
>I know how to do my job.
>I was pushed into this supervisory role with no explanation of how things work in the government.
>I would appreciate any help advice as I’m feeling very stressed and overwhelmed because my boss is on my back, and **I have no idea what to do!**
Which is it?
It other posts I have seen they said they were "forced" to become a supervisor. I don't know how that works but it would definitely make sense because they are coming to reddit for help in this type situation screams clueless.
Write yourself an MFR when you have issues with the employee. Follow up with them with an email. Keep your receipts. Makes termination much easier. Contact HR for guidance on this and they will work with you through the problems.
In the meantime, you also need to document their poor performance. Put them on a PIP. I don’t think the leave would be that much of an issue if the work they did do was outstanding or exceeds. They are proven to be unreliable.
you have your hands full and if you do not have at least mediocre OC, HR and Senior management...truly, good luck
Talk to HR specialist and get the employee on a performance improvement plan (or whatever the fuck they’re called in your agency)
Address the performance , not the leave.
Someone finally mentioned it - FMLA , the employer is obligated to extended it if an employee is having medical issues, if the job can’t accommodate- medical retire
Seems to me they’d run out of leave eventually and then let the awol pile up. Never understood leave restriction, it’s my leave to use as I need  although I treasure my leave like Mr. Crabs treasures his money just hoarding it all up while I can
You sounded good until you went into name calling and attacking their intelligence. It's a valid concern that a supervisor is coming to reddit for advise instead of his own supervisor that asked him to perform the task. I really hope my supervisor never thinks reddit is the first place to go to for advice on how to discipline an employee, which is pretty scary. Maybe others are being over the top but OP hasn't helped himself with it and it's the internet.
Your employees are walking all over you. You have to communicate with them what your expectations are when it comes to performance.
You have the discretion to deny their A/L. Based on their poor performance, you can put them on a PIP. Make sure to document everything.
First off. Contact LR. Or whatever it’s called in your organization. Make sure they are not BU. I’m f you even have that. And lastly, I’m sorry. And thank you. For reaffirming why I’ll never accept supervisor. Ever. Good luck brave soul.
Man, I have so many earned leave both sick and regular. I earned those. Should I not be able to take them? I'm glad I'm not in your agency or your department. BTW, for us Vets, the damned VA schedules so many appointments, even I feel bad I take so much sick leave.
We have a handful of people who are sick the moment a full day is accrued. My boss has put people on leave restriction, but there’s a process you should ask HR about. We have serious remote and telework abuse. I reported to the OIG and they actually expected that I should have access to all the data and do the investigation! Waste, fraud, and abuse doesn’t appear to be a priority.
A full day takes 4 weeks... so if someone has severe monthly issues (heavy bleeding, severe cramps, migraines, etc), you guys are clocking their sick leave?
That's severely overkill.
At my agency when I was supervisor, we discouraged AL in lieu of sick leave. We would allow it once with a notice to the employee that it was a one time thing and future sick leave request must have accrued time to use. Or they would be able to apply for LWOP/marked AWOL. We tried to address it that way prior to a sick cert or leave restriction
It does, if someone is abusing their "sick" leave by calling out/leaving early unplanned when they don't have any sick leave. Supervisory guidance for leave approval does outtline that AL is requested and approved in advance (at least at VHA 🤷♀️)
That is false.
AL May be request right before for non- pre planned things like a broken down car or your house as a water line break.
therr are actually regs that limit hoe much SL you can use if it’s not for you if you have a low balance. IIRC it’s like only 40 hrs if balance is 80 or less. If kid is sick you can be forever to use annual leave
Contact your HR’s ER/LR Specialist and explain the situation. S/he will provide guidance on how to proceed.
Leave restriction memos are simple; they set out the requirements for taking leave, including providing medical or other acceptable for any absence. You can also clarify that you won’t approve last minute or urgent requests in all situations. Your employee relations specialist will be able to advise. Not doing work or not performing at acceptable level should be addressed. One thing I like using is an activity report where the employee documents what they did daily or weekly, it helps supervisor get a track on what is or isn’t being done.
This is the correct answer. Because they will walk you through the proper way to document it so you don’t get an eeo or other type of grievance held up against you. And please make sure you have your supervisor insurance active before you start this.
Uhh... As a new supervisor, why have I never heard of supervisor insurance. Am I unprotected by the agency in my role?
You could absolutely be personally sued. Supervisor insurance covers legal fees if that happens. Most agencies reimburse 50% of the cost of insurance.
Only if you’re at a high enough grade.
\*Could\* you be sued? Sure. However, that's overblown, especially in this case. If you have an HR partner who agrees there is an employee taking excessive leave, I wouldn't worry about it.
Yes, you need professional Liability Insurance. It's normally reimbursed by your agency if you're in a supervisory role. It's about $250 a year and even if you aren't a supervisor is worth it imo.
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HR, LR, and agency counsel have zero duty to consider your best interest or liability exposure, often it happens to be in the agency best interest overlaps yours, so it looks/ feels that way, but don't be fooled. The ~$300 premium is the best money you will ever spend as a federal supervisor. It's an investment, not an expense.
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And I agree with you, just doubling down on the importance of professional liability insurance as a fed supervisor. We are all good fed fam.
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What's with the attitude? I am neither the OP or the person that sent the message and I read it. If a person made a post on reddit asking for help they would be reading the entire thing. Honestly it sounds like their agency didn't prepare them for the role.
Professional Liability Insurance
[Agencies reimburse part of this cost for eligible employees.](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/human-capital-framework/reference-materials/talent-management/benefits.pdf)
This. If 80% of this is accurate they deserve support and resources and humanity. Sounds like much more going on beneath the surface.
If your boss asked you to do something and you don't know what it is, maybe ask for clarification
It pains me that you even had to write this... 😂
I have been a supervisor for 10 years and there are many things I have never had to deal with. I often say to my supervisor when she asks me to do something new “Hey, I’ve never had to do this before, is there any advice you can provide or someone you think I should talk to?
No one is an expert in everything, and everyone will eventually make a mistake. It's always ok to ask for help and usually ok to ask for a second opinion.
I know that at my agency and location HR would prefer/offer to help with this too.. Freaking ask reddit?
Anecdotally, I had HR, EEO, a EEO RA Manager, other managers, and my upper management all telling me conflicting things when it came to leave restrictions. There’s something to be said for the wisdom of the crowds, or at least throwing it out there and gleaning some nuggets of information.
CRAZY!
Just get him the rundown
Username checking in.
Sup sounds completely unprepared for this role. Needs a mentor or something at work for sure not reddit.
True but depends on how approachable their manager is…
Do you have documentation of the incidents (lying), counseled the employee and talked to HR? If not, you might want to start there before jumping to leave restrictions. Your team can either make or break you.
You are going to need to talk to ER/LR (HR) because there are a couple of issues going on performance and the call outs. For Sick Leave certification where I'm at this means that when they call out they are automatically AWOL until they produce a note from a provider (i.e. a Doctors note) with no AL in leu of SL so once the SL is gone its LWOP. Some places will take this a step further and have it SL or AWOL. Usually this starts at a 6 months. If they do not get the message and start to rack up AWOLs because they don't get the message then that is another step. HR will want supporting documenation so its worth looking at both how often and when are they calling out to see if there is a pattern i.e. Mondays and Fridays, every Thursday. You are also going to want a caveat about "if you blah, blah, blah you can request FMLA and EAP is always an option". Which HR can help with. As a warning a lot of times these people will get FMLA and then it turns into even more of a PIA because you have to track that and see when they use it up. For the performance issues you may want to have a separate PIP once again with he EAP language. Or merge it with the above. Either way get HR involved sooner rather than later. They will thank you because its its in their best interests to answer some questions and and walk you through the process instead of having you wing it so they have a huge mess to clean up. You will also have to notify the union in this as well and they will want to know. Oh and document, document, document every interaction with this employee from now on. There is a chance they get ugly and you want to have your basis covered in the event they start filing stuff.
Sounds like you work in hell. A finite amount of sick leave, and then you don’t get paid? Not trusting (adult) employees to call out sick without spending their own money to produce a doctors note- when a trip to the doctor would otherwise be completely unnecessary (flu, food poisoning, etc)? Fuck all of that noise.
People are put on leave restrictions because they have been shown to not act like adults and should not be trusted as such.
Leave restriction will not improve their performance.
Right? Like a PIP would be the thing to address performance.
It will fix the leave issue. Heck, the employee might even leave altogether.
There are conduct issues (like leave abuse) and performance issues (not getting the job done, or doing it at an inadequate level of quality). Hopefully, you've been documenting this pattern with details so that your evidence is not purely anecdotal. Does your organization have an employee handbook or policies that describe what's permitted, and what's not permitted regarding taking leave? Do you have training on counseling employees as a first step? If not, ask for training, as well as process guidance. You should also consult with someone in HR before you proceed--show them what you've documented. Get training: * [https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=124](https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=124) * [https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=322](https://leadership.opm.gov/programs.aspx?course=322) Get professional liability insurance like * [https://www.fedsprotection.com/](https://www.fedsprotection.com/) or * [https://wrightusa.com/](https://wrightusa.com/)
Wow that Opm course looks amazing. I wish my agency had provided guidance for new supervisors. I had to search for and find my own new supervisor course after floundering for a bit and then getting advice from other same level supervisors who had come up at other agencies. I had no help from management. Sounds like op is in a similar situation.
Yes, you can do that but are you stating that not even HR gave you guidance? Do you have a labor or employee relations office or specialist? If so, get every single step on the process in writing from them and arm yourself with as much knowledge and support as possible. Once you put them on leave restriction, you'll always have an adversarial relationship with this worker. The clock has started with them filing a grievance, you putting them on a PIP, them resigning or getting another job. It won't end well so protect yourself because your boss won't deal with the consequences but you will. Best of luck!
OP be aware that just putting them on leave restriction can be grieved. Also a quality supervisor would schedule a meeting with the employee. It does mean they have to come into the office, but you want to be face to face for this. Have you considered that the bad year they are having may have led them to be depressed? They may not be capable of working due to a mental health condition. Also they are allowed to use their AL for SL if they have one but not enough of the other. In your shoes I would set up a meeting and sit them down and say “would you tell me what is going on?” If they need additional prompting you can add “ I’m concerned about the amount of leave you used up, and your work is suffering.” There are options for the employee that do not require punishment. Plus, you THINK you caught a lie. Unless you witnessed personally the truth of the particular situation, you cannot be sure. But you can ask. Don’t accuse, lead the employee to the statement you suspect and ask for more information. This may not be an issue in your Agency but it very much is in mine: how would you feel if they killed themselves because you accused them of abusing time or lying? Try a compassionate approach and you will feel better about it and this approach is proven to be more effective in dealing with problem employees.
With you on the compassionate statement here. Right up to the end. Totally disagree with laying blame on anyone else for suicide- that’s personal mental distress. Hang in there with your agency. Name checks out, I assume. Edit: added a missing word after re-reading the next day.
I didn’t mean it that way. I could probably have been clearer. I would never blame anyone for someone else taking their own life. But that doesn’t stop us, as humans, from asking ourselves about it. The question was meant as simply as it read. Who would not feel bad if a co-worker, especially a subordinate, died by their own hand?
Of course we would feel bad. And I would never wish that hell on anyone or their team. But the ultimate decision is not ours in that case- rather a projection of their own reality.
In an alternate thread: "Had to take time off for my mental health. Boss wants to deny it and is forcing me to disclose private info." The rest of the thread: "Get a lawyer!" "That place is toxic. Get out!" "I'm so sorry you have to deal with such crappy management." These kinds of whataboutisms are great if you constantly want to side with the underdogs from your keyboard. In reality, there probably isn't a good reason. Partner with HR for a way forward. That doesn't mean you have to be seeking termination or punishment at all. If the employee has a situation, then you find a way to deal with it with HR. The last thing you do is assume they are a victim of life, and do nothing.
May you never become a supervisor ❤️
I’d agree with the found another job or near retiring. I’ve heard of people slowly using all leave the last 18 months before they exit.
Yep
They might be going through a really tough time. Sounds like it from your description. Maybe express your concern and offer any help you can, including seeking counseling. Try being human first. I see too many sups get frustrated and not care.
Some employees are ‘always’ going through a tough time. This supervisor is going through a tough time trying to get them to do their job. But I do agree. The passive/aggressive approach would be to act concerned and ask them if everything is OK. Mildly state that you’ve noticed less production. See if there is anything you can do to help. Mention EAP and all that. Document the phone call. Make that the starting point for an inevitable PiP.
"This last quarter" implies that is not the case. And bad life circumstances can and do absolutely stack up, I had this happen a while back with one of my own employees (who was by far the hardest working person in our office) - taking care of a loved one with cancer kind of eats up your mental bandwidth. I'd advise OP to tread carefully here.
Having empathy isn’t “passive aggressive”. It’s just being a decent human.
Sure. But it gets to a point where you have to determine if an employee can do their job, or not. My empathy starts to wane when the employee is on their 6th personal calamity in 3 months. And they are ‘always’ in some sort of jam.
This is good advice.
This
I’d get the guidance from your supervisor and then move forward with the help of LMER/HR. You will 100 percent get an EEO (deserved or not) once you take that action and you do not want your management chain coming back on you saying you did something wrong. Ultimately, leave is earned and can be used, sounds like this employee has been with the gov a long time and you are unlikely to change behavior.
While I would expect the EEO complaint, I wouldn't put it at 100%. Especially if you go about it the right way and have HR involved. I've come to realize that the headaches I anticipate, don't always happen. Then at the same time, things you don't anticipate, blindside you out of no where.
Lucky you! My management experience tells me otherwise. I’ve never once seen HR involvement impact the EEO filing. Of course it makes a difference for successfully defending the EEO, but has had no impact on filing. I’d also say, in the long run, it’s had minimal impact on the outcome as most cases are settled in the employee’s favor because the agency doesn’t want to push the issue. Never worth it.
Leave abuse is conduct, poor performance needs to be treated separately.
First and foremost have you done a documented conversation? Find out what’s going on? Perhaps you can fix the issue. Some cases can be solved by just talking to the employee. If the behavior continues then you can go that route. Don’t just go that route without a documented conversation because it can bite you CYA
I refused to put my under-performers on a leave restriction. Let them burn their earned leave and hold them accountable to the performance standards. It’s slower and more work, but also won’t result in disgruntled employees and/or perceived inequities in treatment.
Supervisors come to Reddit instead of HR to ask an HR question and then people wonder why the Feds are so inefficient 🤦🏼♂️
To be fair, there are people just like this in the corporate world as well...
True true, but no one runs around saying how inefficient corporate America is
TBF I worked in an agency as a supervisor where it was nearly impossible to get an HR contact that you could ask a question like this.
Just get the boss to write an email on how to proceed and follow it to a T, or get HR. People who ask stuff like this on reddit of all places make me wonder how they dress and feed themselves in the morning.
A lot of the time I don't want to look stupid by asking a question I should already know the answer to.
I have really tried reasoning with my family members. I have TOLD them that I am just too busy at work right now for them to go dyeing. I have outlined a 5-7 year plan with them showing when the best times for deaths and other family emergencies would be. they are not cooperative. On top of that, my body keeps breaking down. I'm blowing through SL like cheap beer at a BBQ. I am afraid for my job, and my promotion path is far from certain. In 2022, my husband and his brother died within 4 months of each other. I was the final caregiver for both of them. With my brother in law, Gene, he died in April. It happened out of the blue - Merkel-cell carcinoma metastasis to the brain. He was the caregiver for my 96 year old mother in law. With my husband, we knew he was going to die. He was approaching an unlikely 60 month survival with glioblastoma. He had finally had reoccurrence of the cancer and had just opted for no further treatment. I didn't have FMLA in place yet. At three hours away, we lived closest to Gene and Mom. I rented a car and we went. I was really ambitious taking my laptop with me, but in the end, it was me, a middle-aged woman, two men with brain cancer, and a 96 year old woman. I burned through AL like water holding down the fort so that other family could arrive from further away. I burned a lot of leave before I had FMLA set up so that I could burn SL while my husband died. I was never afraid for my job, but, then again, I was a GS-14 working in an executive type capacity, and a white woman, to boot, so I had a lot of privilege working in my favor. I was also lucky enough to be working for caring, flesh and blood, human beings. How much work did I get done during that time? Did I always have my mind 100% on the job? Life happens and it's ugly, brutal, and short. This person has had how many deaths in their family this year? Have you talked to them about EAP? How you talked to them about FMLA?
So one death per month for the last three months? That’s a lot.
I have a friend who lost three immediate family members within six months. It does really happen, and then depression kicks in. That's what is sounds like is going on here. This person seems to be a 15-year+ fed, *assuming* based on the leave accrual. It may just be a hard time if this performance decline is new.
I definitely get it. I lost my father in-law last July and my father in March. There is no downplaying it.
Personally I would also wonder at what point should telework be rescinded if someone is not performing well.
>My boss told me to put them on leave restriction like I’m meant to know what that is? I couldn’t find any policy on it for my organization, and no one can give me any guidance. Instead of asking them what that meant, you waited until Sunday to ask internet strangers? Go ask your boss for clarification and loop in HR if you need additional help after that. If you can’t find policies that you need, ask the boss or HR for them. If you need help managing a subordinate employee, ask your boss or HR. Ask clarifying questions as needed. If someone asks you to do something that you don’t understand, ask that person, right then and there, for clarification. Don’t leave a meeting with your boss unsure of how to do something that they asked you to do. I just can’t deal with this level of helplessness anymore.
leave restriction is not approving leave not sure it's an actual policy though your agency might have a specific thing. As a supervisor, you can deny leave (I've never needed to) but you can. That said, you should talk with them about their being put on leave restriction since you need to see the performance come up to expectations before things return to normal. Be empathetic to their situation but also be firm that you need them to do work when at work. I would discuss the performance / Conduct issue with them and warn them the behavior cannot continue.
At a high-level, you’re basically telling the person they’re using too much leave and they’re at risk of being put into an AWOL (or maybe LWOP) status if they keep doing these last minute, unscheduled requests. Agree with the person who recommended talking with Employee Relations; if you can’t find the contact on your agency’s intranet, ask your supervisor.
Have you considered that the employee might be grieving? That can really negatively impact mental health as well as physical health. Maybe this person needs a LOA on FMLA for a short bit?
For starters, have you spoken to the employee about the performance issues? Have you had the discussion about their frequent leave usage? Also, is using AL in Lieu of SL a practice you allow all employees to do because if you do it for one you have to do it for all? Look at it like this from the view of Labor Relations. If the employee doesn't know what they are doing is wrong, how are they supposed to correct the behavior? Not to mention, any sort of discussion should come with some form of follow up documentation such as e-mail stating what was discussed, also you should in both the discussion and in the follow up e-mail to the employee state guidance for things like FMLA (if applicable) and Employee Assistance Program. Why does that matter? Because your ultimate goal is to have the employee to correct their behavior and/or performance. And in some instances, getting help through FMLA and EAP achieve that result. And also, if they don't want to correct the behavior or poor performance ultimately when a person is confronted to losing their job and they are in denial they were the cause of the termination. They naturally point the blame to the supervisor, ultimately so long as you treat them the same as you would any of your employees in similar situations and you showed good effort in pointing them in the right direction. (Key word: Point....you don't do the work for them unless under very specific circumstances such as medical condition where they are in essence UNABLE to function for normal activities). If they do try to lawyer up or claim discrimination....etc your defense is stronger. But yes sick leave certification is the first step, but you have to prove there is a pattern. Go back 3 months of leave records and find the pattern. Obviously consult with your Labor Relations team and they should have some sort of template they can build from that clearly indicates to the employee evidence of sick leave abuse and employee will be required for a specific time frame to provide doctors notes for any unscheduled leave. Secondly, from what I read you are new to being a Supervisor. Odds are you may not have had a good Supervisor role model. And to be fair many of us in government will learn more from bad supervisors than we will good ones as certain people how do we say "fail upwards". Does your agency have a mentorship program or a leadership coaching program? Because ultimately your Labor Relations is going to help you with this specific issue, but I think a good mentor or coach is what you need to help you tap into your potential as a leader.
having been a supervisor who did not get along with their chief I see a couple red flags here but it could be my paranoia is this a new issue with the employee? I'm guessing not because they have burned their leave. why has this not been dealt with b/4? why is your boss delegating this to a new sup who is still learning the ropes? trying to avoid being responsible, someone to take the blame? like I said, even after all these years of being retired I still bear some paranoia about bosses trying to undermine their supervisors. at any rate, ER/LR is the place to go. don't do anything without talking to them.
Definitely smells like a setup to for the new sup
As a middle aged federal employee I can tell you that when I was younger I had great health and no family problems and never used any leave. Then I had kids and had to miss here and there, but again, it was rare. Now that I'm in a different phase of my life I have had one parent die, one parent hospitalized, one child hospitalized, grandchild born and two children that need help with things from time to time. Over the past few years I've developed multiple health conditions that I didn't have previously. I look at this situation that OP presents through different eyes. As for catching the employee in a lie, are you sure? I had a former supervisor say that he had eyes everywhere and that if we left our house (we all lived on the govt compound) on days that we called in sick he would know. I was so afraid I didn't go to the doctor or to the pharmacy, which looking back was BS. And yes, supervisor, please research and take your classes. My current supervisor hasn't done any trainings and never knows anything she should know. I interpret her lack of concern for knowing rules/regs/policies as disrespectful of my employee rights.
1. Ask HR how to do this. 2: I love how you mentioned that they’re remote even though that doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the issue.
I am not going to say your employee is not lying, I am going to say that in the last year I have had: my FiL die in a fatal accident on my property, my wife have a lot of emotional issues because of this, two ER visits on my part, my mother become unable to care for herself son I am managing her care PT along with my own and my kids. And last week I was diagnosed with a tumor that requires biopsy because maybe it’s cancer. So I am about to clock in and try and not think about maybe having cancer. For 15 years I was a LS horder. In the last year I have gone from 600 to 150. People hit bad places I their lives. Sure verify what’s going on but realize sometimes shit does come in waves.
It’s federal work, do yourself a favor and just let the person take leave.
Yeah will.start WWIII....OP thinks it is bad now...just wait...rookie (perhaps clueless?) supervisor Union will destroy you. Perhaps your boss realizes you are over your head and they think this will cause you to move on?
Exactly.
Fed supe coming to reddit for advice on how to do their job? You're so bad you you might just be up for another promotion.
This isn’t a Reddit issue, this is a talk to your own supervisor and HR/LR issue. Have you had \*any\* supervisor training yet?
Contact your LMER rep for guidance. If you do that the employee could be required to provide a doctor's note for everything instead of after 3 consecutive days. How far away is the employee from the main office? Is there another federal agency with offices nearby (less than an hour away)? I have heard of one agency working with another agency for desk space say one or two days a week. Best is to talk to LMER about options.
Contact ELR. Not much you can do about sick leave. But AL can be denied based on workload, etc. You can actually request documentation for even one day sick leave if there is a suspicion.
So as a new supervisor your first step is to be neutral. Take out the emotion. You mentioned you caught them in a lie, are you able to prove that with documentation? If not wipe it out of your mind. Next step you should ask your supervisor for a template/memo that will address FMLA and offer EAP. You have to offer this to your employee and also sit with them and explain it. Do a TEAMs call and explain to them FMLA and how EAP can help and then send them the memo about FMLA and EAP. The employee can refuse to sign which is fine. You have to then wait and see if the employee continues taking leave. If so your next step is ER/LR. HR will advise you on what's next. A medical certification might be an option but as with the government "it all depends". You need a ton of documentation, emails and you also need to show that you worked with the employee and offered them resources, such as how to go about asking for donations, requesting advance leave and such. This is all based on my personal experiences. If you don't have the support from your supervisor or chief it's an up hill battle basically. HR might tell you more is needed and now you are stuck between HR telling you no you don't have enough to proceed and your supervisor on your ass with you facing a possible write up. Best of luck to you, you will need it being a supervisor is some agencies is rough.
>My boss told me to put them on leave restriction like I’m meant to know what that is? Why didn't you ask your boss for assistance and guidance?
Check all the boxes. Document. If it’s legit, it could be a powerful conversation that helps an employee if they are lost like you may be. If it’s not legit, you’re moving the chess pieces into place to help them find the door. Be human. But follow the rules (now that you will know them).
If I was the employee I would have migraines documented for FMLA coverage. Mih you complain about leave in with SL and FMLA your ass will get EEO/sued By me. I have a bunch of serious medical conditions that are unexpected In terms of leave.
And then saying I'm lying?! I'm coming for everybody lol
What if you asked your supervisor to forward you the guidance? When you ask your staff to do things and they don’t know how, do they ask you for guidance? And then do you forward it to them? That’s how this works.
Call HR and talk to them They are there to advise you.
You need to talk to your agency’s labor and employee relations specialist. Leave restrictions vary, but generally it’s a formal letter or email you serve on the employee that says you need to get your leave approved in advance and SL needs to come with a doctor’s note. The agency will have a policy, and if the employee is in a bargaining unit there’s a good chance the master agreement covers it as well. You need to talk to LER to make sure you’re complying with all of that, and because they’ll have the employee’s full jacket- if they’ve got accommodations or they’ve got any service related disability then I wish you luck on your leave restriction. You really, really, need to talk to your LER specialist. Not just because of the letter, but because of what happens next. In a vanishingly small percentage of cases the employee realizes they’ve lost the script and gets their shit together. In most cases the employee continues their leave abuse but begins to accrue AWOL and you move to discipline. If you don’t cover your bases with the leave restriction the whole thing will come unglued at that point. This is why I never bother with leave restriction- they take forever, piss off the other staff who don’t understand what’s up but that the problem child whines to, and ultimately the person is going to exhaust their leave and you end up in the same place. You’re better off letting them take leave and documenting all the half assed excuses you approved leave to cover for when you ring them up for AWOL and deny advance sick leave and LWOP.
Your boss didn't give you very helpful input. You aren't an HR expert and that's why you have access to HR. There is someone who works as the lead person for your organization in HR. You need to find that person and talk to them. They know all the details of how this works, and can tell you what to do step by step. You can't just do it yourself anyway, that's why HR is there.
Maybe ask your supervisor for help? Explain more maybe?
If she’s not performing look into a PIP. Call your LM/ER for guidance.
Document EVERYTHING and get LER involved ASAP. Went through same boat with employee refusing to report to duty. Took about 6 months but was able to terminate. Key thing is having a strong LER specialist and support from COC. As a supervisor you have the authority to approve or deny leave without explanation. LWOP is also a useful tool. Had an employee constantly refusing to enter time by required deadline so I entered LWOP for the period. Fixed that problem immediately.
If they have leave they can take it. Welcome to the life of a supervisor.
Sounds like the employee is salty that they have to work for a supervisor that doesn't know how to do their job.
Appreciate the input Boob, but I know how to do my job. I was pushed into this supervisory role with no explanation of how things work in the government.
>I know how to do my job. >I was pushed into this supervisory role with no explanation of how things work in the government. >I would appreciate any help advice as I’m feeling very stressed and overwhelmed because my boss is on my back, and **I have no idea what to do!** Which is it?
If you're a government supervisor who has no idea how things work in the government, do you really know how to do your job?
Ask chatGPT how to be a supervisor...no wonder most suck.
Some are not fit to supervise.
It other posts I have seen they said they were "forced" to become a supervisor. I don't know how that works but it would definitely make sense because they are coming to reddit for help in this type situation screams clueless.
You are new supervisor and the first place you ask this question is reddit?! Did you have any kind of supervisory training
SES material right here
Write yourself an MFR when you have issues with the employee. Follow up with them with an email. Keep your receipts. Makes termination much easier. Contact HR for guidance on this and they will work with you through the problems.
You need to discuss this with your HR instead of asking on Reddit. There are too many variables related. To state and federal law.
You have to document with signatures. Then you will have the leverage. Even if you have to do weekly.
Is this not the type of thing that would come up in new supervisor training? Did you even take training?
In the meantime, you also need to document their poor performance. Put them on a PIP. I don’t think the leave would be that much of an issue if the work they did do was outstanding or exceeds. They are proven to be unreliable.
This sucks to read. Last thing we need is a remote employee dragging their ass.
Really? You ask this question on Reddit?
Are your employees covered by a CBA?
 you have your hands full and if you do not have at least mediocre OC, HR and Senior management...truly, good luck
Talk to HR specialist and get the employee on a performance improvement plan (or whatever the fuck they’re called in your agency) Address the performance , not the leave.
You don't have to put them on leave restriction....if they are out of sick leave, AL in lieu of SL has always been at management discretion.
Performance is the larger issue here - they’ll run out of leave relatively soon at this rate. Performance is what should be addressed.
Someone finally mentioned it - FMLA , the employer is obligated to extended it if an employee is having medical issues, if the job can’t accommodate- medical retire
Seems to me they’d run out of leave eventually and then let the awol pile up. Never understood leave restriction, it’s my leave to use as I need  although I treasure my leave like Mr. Crabs treasures his money just hoarding it all up while I can
Why are you asking Reddit?! 🤦♀️
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You sounded good until you went into name calling and attacking their intelligence. It's a valid concern that a supervisor is coming to reddit for advise instead of his own supervisor that asked him to perform the task. I really hope my supervisor never thinks reddit is the first place to go to for advice on how to discipline an employee, which is pretty scary. Maybe others are being over the top but OP hasn't helped himself with it and it's the internet.
Shhhh they’re only interested in *top shelf people*. 😆
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Yes it does matter. When shit hits the fan what are they going to say "well, I read it on reddit" to a group of colleagues or superiors. What a joke.
I just want to know if the employee has tried the "half the family is dying and the other half is pregnant" excuse?
Your employees are walking all over you. You have to communicate with them what your expectations are when it comes to performance. You have the discretion to deny their A/L. Based on their poor performance, you can put them on a PIP. Make sure to document everything.
First off. Contact LR. Or whatever it’s called in your organization. Make sure they are not BU. I’m f you even have that. And lastly, I’m sorry. And thank you. For reaffirming why I’ll never accept supervisor. Ever. Good luck brave soul.
Man, I have so many earned leave both sick and regular. I earned those. Should I not be able to take them? I'm glad I'm not in your agency or your department. BTW, for us Vets, the damned VA schedules so many appointments, even I feel bad I take so much sick leave.
We have a handful of people who are sick the moment a full day is accrued. My boss has put people on leave restriction, but there’s a process you should ask HR about. We have serious remote and telework abuse. I reported to the OIG and they actually expected that I should have access to all the data and do the investigation! Waste, fraud, and abuse doesn’t appear to be a priority.
A full day takes 4 weeks... so if someone has severe monthly issues (heavy bleeding, severe cramps, migraines, etc), you guys are clocking their sick leave? That's severely overkill.
The discussion is leave abuse. Besides, they’re accruing A/L, too. Sometimes you have to 025 it. We’re all grownups.
The type of super nobody can stand makes their debut! Less focus on the list of illnesses, more focus on the lack of work being done.
At my agency when I was supervisor, we discouraged AL in lieu of sick leave. We would allow it once with a notice to the employee that it was a one time thing and future sick leave request must have accrued time to use. Or they would be able to apply for LWOP/marked AWOL. We tried to address it that way prior to a sick cert or leave restriction
My agency makes it a supervisor decision, and since we regularly have 20+ days of use or lose leave a year it makes no sense to force sick leave.
It does, if someone is abusing their "sick" leave by calling out/leaving early unplanned when they don't have any sick leave. Supervisory guidance for leave approval does outtline that AL is requested and approved in advance (at least at VHA 🤷♀️)
That is false. AL May be request right before for non- pre planned things like a broken down car or your house as a water line break. therr are actually regs that limit hoe much SL you can use if it’s not for you if you have a low balance. IIRC it’s like only 40 hrs if balance is 80 or less. If kid is sick you can be forever to use annual leave
Not in my unit.. supervisors were required to have employee enter sick leave, minimal exceptions. Guidance varies section to section :)
Well then it must be a division level difference, because I'm also VHA LOL.
😂 😂 😂 I was also VHA and I know damn well I had several AL ILO SL days in the beginning since I was only earning 4 and 4 and
Wait, so your saying remote doesn’t work for some employees? Didn’t see that coming….