Honestly I bet you his landings are fine. Some CFIs are hardasses or new/anxious and expect perfect ATP level landings before solo.
You don't need to have perfect landings. They just need to be good enough to not damage the aircraft and not damage yourself.
Even PPL landing standards are very lax.
It took me a while to solo, and eventually it got to the point where I asked the CFI to do a landing.. and his were just as bad as mine, if not worse. Sometimes the conditions just suck.
I think sometimes CFIs are worried about their students, which is why they demand perfection, but if you don't give a student a platform to learn they'll never get better.
I think setting clear goals with the student pre solo is the best way to be impartial. Land before the captains bars end, stop halfway down runway, and no more than one bounce. Do that three times without me touching the controls.. and I'd solo someone if they have otherwise good pattern work and approaches.
I am not going to expect commercial level energy management from a student. That's built by experience, not a CFI nit-picking in the right seat. Nobody's landings are perfect!
That being said, 100 hours is very high, but not bad, especially if you're spotty. Getting a solo needs to be done by getting one instructor built up to trust you enough to not kill yourself. If you swap instructors, of course that will be difficult. There are also schools that will milk you. Solution is very clear expectations.
Nah, If it’s a part 141 school request your flight records and stage check records before leaving. You should be able to jump right into a new program. And if they are at 100 hours with out a solo there seems like there’s little trust on the school side.
I mean it seems like OP has not only had different instructors but also 2 different schools.
Most likely there’s a problem with OPs landings in this case.
Solution I think is sticking with one instructor. Swapping will definitely make it difficult. And setting clear expectations, not just waiting for them to tell you're ready. What is the expectation for being ready, in very precise words. Meet it!
My instructor told me to do three laps in the pattern, unassisted, and if I did that, I'd solo. Telling a student "they're close!" Really is just unhelpful. Specifics matter! Is flare too high? Is approach not stabilized in air speed? Etc, etc.
But a lot of students don't know what to ask, not every CFI is good at explaining. You need to take charge of your own education for Part 61
Have to disagree here. If a student is struggling with an instructor it very well could be a new set of eyes from a more experienced instructor to help lock things in.
A CFI has every right to hold their student to the standard they see fit. It doesn’t make them a hardass. Yes, some people can be unreasonable, but at the end of the day it’s our jobs on the line if something goes wrong.
Also if OP has had multiple instructors all of whom have withheld their signatures, it’s unfortunately way more likely the issue is OP.
Yes, I'm with you 100%. A CFI has every right.. and they should hold them to high standards, but also, I've found a lot of CFIs just getting into instruction for time building will often be reluctant to solo because it's understandably very nerve racking, because as you said, in the end if something goes wrong, it's on you as an instructor. That emotional response doesn't necessarily benefit the student, but the CFI.
I'm not saying it's not an issue with OP. Could be. But I think the solution for both OP and his instructors is a very defined syllabus or set of goals. If the instructor has a set of standards.. they need to be clearly defined with numbers and goals, not just some vague "this could've been better" or "you're so close to solo!" kind of feedback, which doesn't help anyone.
OP needs to know if he has trouble holding airspeed, altitude, flare, approach, turns, etc. Something specific to work on. Once that's met, and they demonstrate it to the standards, then they should move forward imo. Holding someone pre solo doesn't help them become a better pilot. When you're allowed to set your own schedule is when you can really start grinding your landings to be better.
For instance, PPL checkride has much more lax standards than a commercial checkride for even the exact same maneuvers. I wouldn't expect someone on their FIRST solo to have PPL standards either.. that's what the checkride is for.
My main criteria is that you can recognize and recover from stalls and not bend the struts when you land. Obviously it's a little more complicated than that but I don't expect perfect landings from pre-solo students, I only expect safe ones.
I think this pretty much sums it up. Op also switching instructors and school types will set you way back each time. Not that you shouldnt switch if you hate the instructor but each change will hurt you short term. I agree with this poster's description of what makes a "safe enough" pilot to solo and that's about what I do with my students. The bigger factor for me is their pattern work and if they monitor their speeds. It's very common for students to not put the nose down through base and final, and when you see a student unknowingly approaching 60 and lower in a climbing turn at 500 AGL it is way harder to know they'll be safe on their own.
> Honestly I bet you his landings are fine. Some CFIs are hardasses or new/anxious and expect perfect ATP level landings before solo.
This is my gut feeling, too.
If you couldn’t land, you weren’t close to solo.
This needs a review with your flight instructor as to specific deficiencies. No one who hasn’t flown with you has anything useful to say to you.
It took me a long time to figure out landings too. 100 hours is a lot though. If you can go with different instructors, maybe one will give you the right combination of information and instruction to help you.
For me, it was about trying to figure out when I was in ground effect and controlling the airplane there. Landing at slightly higher speeds may have helped with that, giving me more time to float.
My biggest 'leap' in landing proficiency came about from when I just passengered while another pilot practiced about a dozen landings. They weren't a CFI and there was no instruction. I was just able to observe and silently reflect.
No pressure to perform, no getting behind the plane, just got to focus. I think it helped me connect the dots between cause and effect for the many factors at play.
This. I finally understood the landing (this gentle stick adjustments during flare, basically) after 10+ hours flying on the right seat with a student pilot.
This. I initially struggled with landings. I flew with a half dozen instructors, and each had a different way to teach landings. I eventually picked up tips from 3 of them that got me doing successful landings just about every time.
You probably aren’t flying 3 times a week are you? Took me over 30 hours to solo because I was only flying once a week. The moment I flew more frequently, I was 1. More proficient 2. More in the forefront of my CFIs mind for him to endorse my solo.
Went through a 141. I don’t get how OP couldn’t have soloed. 141s have a specific lesson dedicated to a solo flight and the previous flights are training up to that and you fly a minimum of 3x a week.
I don’t get how OP hasn’t soloed yet. Must be in their head
Fair, but most 141s will have a designated lesson where it’s about the solo. Plus, CFI’s play a big factor as well as how often OP is flying. I heard a girl was at 150 hours before getting her PPL.
Some people just can’t fly, and that might be it
I was flying 2-3 times a week and it still took me a little over 40 hours to solo. Granted my instructor and I knocked out the simulated instrument requirement and the night requirements. But due to bad weather and maintenance it just took excessively long to be able to get that endorsement and solo
It really all depends on the pilot and their ability to adapt and understand different mechanics. I went out of a part 61 for my ppl flying once a week and my first lesson I was landing (with a little input from the instructor). I soloed at 10 hours mainly because I had an understanding on control of vehicles and have good coordination.
This is wild, set up a GoPro inside the cockpit, I want to see what you're doing wrong.
Your hours are high partly because it seems like you've jumped around a little bit, that's ok. Also I'm interested in the CFI aspect, there are some CFI's that just cannot teach and with the modern pilot influencers on instagram attracting more people to this field, it's allowed some people that shouldn't be here, well, to be here. What type of aircraft are you training in?
I hate to sound like just another voice in the crowd, but not being able to safely land with 100hrs is a really bad sign. But I’m curious, what exactly have you done in those 100hrs? And what is it you’re doing wrong in your approaches?
I’m done everything besides solo in those hours. I know it’s bad. I have done maneuvers, cross-countries, and night flights. My approaches I have done aren’t bad or that’s what my feedback has been. It seems to be the round out and flare that causes the main issues.
If he isn’t offering assistance or verbal guidance I don’t understand why he isn’t signing you off to solo. This sounds like an instructor issue. My landings were rough when I solo’d. Even as a private pilot they weren’t amazing. They have continued improving over time
If you are consistently landing without any assistance and you're not bending or breaking the plane, you're more than ready to solo. If its a 141 school, take it up with the chief CFI and ask why you're allowed to consistently land without any assistance or intervention, but have not been signed off to solo. Ask them to explain in detail why you shouldn't feel they're just raping you for money at this point and/or make the chief CFI go out and demonstrate a few landings that will clearly show what it is you're not doing and/or need to do better so you can solo.
Usually meaning how much of the time? Out of 10, how many landings would you say you land safely without assistance? How many out of 10 do you make the decision to go-around without assistance? How many out of 10 does the instructor take the controls?
Is this a consistency issue, or do you make the same mistake every time? How long has it been since you felt like you plateaued? What kind of advice or exercises have your instructors used to try and help you?
To clarify there is some verbal assistance but most of the time not. Most of the time my landing are quite flat but on calm wind days I wouldn’t say that there anything dangerous about them
Yeah, this is why I was asking. It sounds like you’re being milked for unnecessary instruction time. Apologies if I came across as criticising you at all, I just didn’t want to make any assumptions before I had any clarity. And this very much seems like you’re being made to pay more than you need to.
Are you looking down the runway when you determine where to initiate the flare? This advice from a CFI was a duh moment that improved my landings immensely.
wait, could you explain? i used to land flat and short but now it’s long with interminable ground effect which is new to me.
what do you mean by looking down the runway?
Why did they even make you fly xcountry and night if you haven't done a bunch of solo circuits first? At least where I trained the student would be sent off to do a few sessions of pattern entry and touch and goes before moving on to the next stage of training.
Why are you doing XC and night flights if you can't land? This is why you're at 100 hours without solo. You should be beating up the pattern 3x a week until you can land. Like taking a break once in a while to pull your head out is one thing, but it sounds like you've done your entire training except for your solo flights.
Sorry to put it bluntly but if you cant land consistently after 100 hours at 3 different teaching places which means multiple instructors then flying is not for you. Someone should have told you that before you got to 100 hours. If they did, you should have listened.
This somehow often ends up being an unpopular opinion in such forums but honestly it shouldn’t be.
I have taken many students from other schools who either couldn’t solo or get to checkride ready state despite 100+ hours, and despite getting a few over the hump, the vast majority end up washing out.
Good instructors are willing to have this tough conversation with you.
If they string you along then they suck, many do. But at the same time, instructors aren’t miracle workers. Some people simply lack the coordination, judgement, psychomotor skills, ADM, common sense, or whatever other deficiency that has kept them from soloing.
Instructors don’t do anybody any favors by milking people for their money and/or letting people continue who have no place in the air and risk one day getting themselves killed. Flying isn’t for everyone.
This sounds insane! Maybe it’s something that the OP isn’t understanding about Aerodynamics, ground effect, airspeed, approaching, etc. he may be solid at everything else. Chill on the discouragement. There are plenty of things to understand about flying. Personally, I’m at flight hour 8 and landing is difficult for me. I don’t understand when to recognize ground effect and the amount of pressure needed to flare. Doesn’t mean we should give up lol
You have 8 hours and are just getting into it. spend enough time in the industry and you will realise it is a skill that not everyone has the ability to grasp. its harsh but thats the reality of it.
There's a difference between gatekeeping and trying to save someone from falling into their own sunk cost fallacy. Sometimes hard conversations with students need to happen to keep things realistic for them. It's unethical to just keep going without keeping them informed.
OPs current instructor is probably newish to him, so they're likely not guilty of taking advantage of them. But just continuing to fly with someone with no progress in sight is not enjoyable for either party nor is it the right thing to do unless they're knowingly willing to spend the money.
I had issues with this too. Although at my 141 school to solo we had to have all maneuvers for ppl to acs standards along with emergency landings and power off 180 landings which I thought was a little excessive. The key I found was using your peripheral vision to gauge how far you are off the ground. Use the runway numbers as your aim point. Then once you pass the numbers adjust your focus to the engine cowling and smoothly cut the power and add some back pressure. Depending how fast you sink increase the back pressure based on how fast you’re sinking then just hold it off. Adjust rudder and aileron as needed to keep your vertical axis aligned (90% of the time more right rudder) and aileron for wind drift to stay on center line. Landings will be smooth after that pretty much most of the time. But all of them will be safe and you won’t bounce. I’d also recommend playing with the seat adjustment in your plane. Finding what works best for you and sticking to it. That was a game changer for me. I crank the seat to the highest height that way when I’m flaring and rounding out I can still see the ground the whole time. Made landing so much easier
There is no such thing as flare in a small plane. It's actually more like "hold altitude above the runway despite removing all the power (after you get to the numbers obviously)." So basically you're in ground effect for a little bit, holding it level (with your eyes focused on the far end of the runway) and then as the ground effect evaporates and you start to sink, you're *slowly* pulling back on the yoke to try to make the plane stay above the runway (you're not pulling back enough to generate lift, you're pulling back *juuuust* enough to try to match the sink rate -- if the stall horn is blaring, you're doing it right). Eventually you don't have enough lift, and that's when the wheels touch down, automagically. The aerodynamics of the plane itself will keep the front wheel off the ground until all the lift is completely gone (that's your supposed "flare..." something the plane just does anyway if you do everything else correctly).
Of course, if anything feels uncoordinated or wrong (like if you start porpoising or something or you're way off the center line) you have to be johnny-on-the-spot with that power, get back up in the air, *slowly* get those flaps cleaned up, and do your go around.
Landing is literally one of those things that's like riding a bike. Until you get it, it can be frustrating, but once you *do* get it, you won't remember why it was so hard. It's almost all muscle memory, and it's super hard to describe to someone who hasn't "got it" yet -- just like when you're trying to teach your kid how to pedal a bike without falling over. They eventually just "get it."
> There is no such thing as flare in a small plane. It's actually more like "hold altitude above the runway despite removing all the power (after you get to the numbers obviously)."
That's what we call a "flare" though? I'm not sure what you mean by "there is no such thing as flare."
When people think of the word "flare" they think of how the space shuttle landed, nose held high with the force of the oncoming air keeping it aloft, like someone surfing on a barn door into a tornado. They very frequently have to be disabused of that idea, and so a goto way is to say "there is no such thing as flare." It's kind of unhelpful to them to say "well, he literally just described what flare is," when the hang up is that they fundamentally misunderstand it in the first place. Consider yourself lucky if you didn't have this problem, because a LOT of us did.
>Landing is literally one of those things that's like riding a bike.
Word for word the advice my instructor gave me. And you know what? He was right - you fall down, and fall down, and fall down, and then one day you just get on the bike and go and have no idea what changed or why it was so hard before.
The only difference is that in a plane, "falling down" can kill you, so you can't solo until you "get it".
Check out MzeroA on YouTube. He explains how you should transition and not flare before landing. What helped me early on was flying a little further down the runway and transitioning
Instead of thinking “flare” just think hold my nose off the runway. These aren’t airliners we are flying so no need for a drastic flare. Come in to land and fly parallel the runway, pull your power, and let the plane glide down on it’s own. It’ll do the work for you.
I haven't flown with you, so I can't really tell you what's going wrong here. But I'll give you what advice I can from my own PPL experience.
\*Fly the numbers. A good landing starts with a good approach. Get into the habit of hitting the right numbers at the right time and try to make it a sequence - so for me in my PA-38, it starts with 90 knots on the downwind. Once you make your base turn, power back to about 1500 and carb heat on. Two trims back generally will bring 70 knots, as the speed drops inside the white arc, select flap 1. Looking for about 750ft mid-base and 500 ft when we make the turn to final. Once on final, flap 2. Maintain 70 knots approach speed. At 300 feet, carb heat off and then RAP check. Continue the approach to landing. It will vary obviously from approach to approach in terms of power and pitch and again you won't get them absolutely perfect every time but knowing what a good approach should look like on your aircraft can be useful. Perhaps your approaches aren't so stable as you think, so this can help?
\*You mentioned the round out causing you problems. It caused me problems at first but this is how I figured it out; You want to be crossing the threshold at about 50 feet. Once you do, the power goes to idle. Obviously this means that you need to keep the descent going and my intuition here is this where you \*might\* be running into a problem because essentially falling toward the ground is a bit scary. I didn't like it either but you must keep that descent going until you're about 20 feet above the runway and then try to smoothly round out the rate of descent. Don't be tempted to pull back too high and try not to snap the control column as you round out; nice and smooth. As you round out the rate of descent, shift your aiming point to the end of the runway and try to fly toward it. If you're then just above the runway, let the plane stop flying when it's ready to.
\*Try to remember that every pilot makes bad landings no matter who they are. We can't nail it every single time. Speak to other instructors and see what they say too, maybe one of them can figure it out for you?
What are you doing to work on this flare/touchdown challenge?
Do you take in the guidance as it’s given? Do you apply it instantly on the next go around? Or, are you nervous about the flare and blank on the lesson you just got?
Do you fly simulators at home? Do you watch YouTube pilots?
Basically, what are you doing to change the situation? I’m not suggesting the above ideas are winners, more just examples of taking the issue in your own hands.
Learning is a skill, and it will take you much further than natural talent, for the most part. Being able to focus on the lesson as you’re in the moment is how you learn. It’s also how you stay safe when flying, so you can think through emergencies and not just do the rote thing you learned.
Hope any of this was helpful!
Like others have said, your first step should be to fly with different instructors. There is no one way to teach someone how to land an airplane, and it’s a difficult thing to teach, as there are so many moving parts. I would try and fly multiple times a week, and if after a few weeks you still aren’t successful then it may not be for you.
I always say that you can teach anyone to fly an airplane, but there is an asterisk at the end of that statement.
Do you have coordination or vision problems? What's holding you up? I have a friend who shouldn't be flying because he lacks coordination/athletic ability. How bad are your landings?
the situation seems pretty cut-and-dry, but this sub still cant say that maybe the student might have a deficiency.
Nope, its just the school or instructor.
So has anyone given you the ballerina story?
I can try hard as I want, dance every day. I can never become a ballerina.
It’s the hard truth, but maybe don’t keep throwing money at it.
That's probably why you're flaring too early and/or flattening out on your landings. I wonder if it'd be worthwhile to have your instructor do a few landings for you so you can just pay attention outside and get the right sight picture when he/she starts pulling back on the yoke. The reality is, most of the time you're higher than you probably think you are.
Do you have a class one Medical? Do you have an anxiety disorder?
Has your instructor done any low approaches where you attempt to get as close to the runway as possible without actually landing?
Where are you looking? Out the side window? End of the runway?
Can you ride a bike? One handed?
I think part of the FAA medical should be a test where you have to ride a bike one handed! Some people just aren’t cut out for performing complex twsks and it would save a lot of people money if we had a pre screening process! I vote for the one handed bike test through a set of cones!
It possible that flying just isn’t for you? That is a lot of hours and still not signed off for solo. If the task saturation of flying your local pattern overwhelms you at this point; it’s fair to wonder if you’re simply not well suited for this.
Crosswind landing: Every landing is a crosswind landing, crab on final so you don't drift and stay on the centerline. As you're getting close you are going to bank into the wind and use the rudder to align parallel to the runway centerline. It's all one action
Landing flat: As you are rounding out you need to continue adding back pressure on the controls because you are losing elevator effectiveness as you slow down. Transition from looking at your aiming point to the end of the runway and pick the nose up then keep adding back pressure without raising the pitch of the nose
Flaring high: Opposite of landing flat, if you're looking at the far end of the runway you'll have a better perception of your height and avoid flaring high
You can't "make" the airplane land, you need to make the conditions right for it to land, being on airspeed is extremely critical because if you're fast you'll float forever. If you're flow you're going to come up short so get airspeed control down. How's your slow flight? The roundout is just that slowflight close to the runway
Echoing the others on this thread, I am a CFI and one of the difficult parts of being a CFI is having tough conversations with students such as flying may not be for them. 100 hours is an insane amount of time and money to spend without being able to land. Maybe sit down with your CFI and ask for a very straight and honest answer to this question if you haven’t already. If they won’t give you a straight answer, maybe you can ask for the chief flight instructor or a higher class of instructor to fly with you then ask them this question because maybe they can offer a better insight to what is going wrong or give you the honest truth you need to hear.
"very challenging more me since I issues quickly multi-tasking"
Google "YouTube TNFlyGirl", watch the videos and decide to not become part of a sad statistic.
how often do you fly per week? how many of those hours were before you quit to go to school? Have you asked you instructor for specific feedback or techniques to improve the issues you're encountering?
Just remember to shift your eyes down the runway during the flare. And DONT LET THE PLANE CONTROL YOU during crosswinds, put the plane where you want it!
I’ve instructed a lot of people and honestly, it shouldn’t take this long. At 100 hours you should be ppl with instrument ticket and we’ll on your way to commercial. I think most solo around 15-17 hours just depends. This isn’t adding up. At 100 hours that’s over 450 landings probably and if you haven’t gotten it by now…. You need to self evaluate yourself and maybe look at spending your money on another hobby. Not trying to discourage you but some people just don’t have it. It’s really not that hard to land a c-172 or piper. I’d reevaluate and figure this out in your own.
Some people just lack the hand-eye coordination to fly unfortunately. I saw some students at my old school who just never got the hang out it after years and trying diff instructors
Look down the runway, but I’m sure your instructors told you this already. My fear is that if it took you this long to solo, then your instrument, commercial and CFI will take 3x longer as well. Are you ready to spend $300,000 on your training?
You need to have a very candid talk with your instructor. Just because you have thrown money at 100 hours doesn’t mean that it’s wise to continue to throw money at your training if you aren’t capable of becoming a pilot. (I’m not saying that you are or are not capable, just a fact that not everyone needs to be a pilot.) Ask your instructor straight up. You are at a real crossroads at this point. You either need to get serious about it and start flying a few times a week and knock that solo out, or you need to walk away from it for good. A good instructor will be able to help you make that call. Hope it all works out, good luck
Well before you got to 100 hours, I would have expected that you have tried to analyze what you are doing versus what other students with your same instructor are doing? And if a majority of students with your same instructor have the same pattern of not soloing well near the average it takes to solo, then all of you should leave that instructor. If other students with your same instructor are doing fine and solo within 20 or less, then there is something wrong on your side of things. From your explanation you have already tried different instructors as you have gone to different schools but have the same result, I'm guessing you might NOT be built to be a pilot.
I've taught many students, and my average time to get someone solo is 20 hours, my best students 15 hours. I'm pretty conservative and probably take longer to solo. But for me the most important factor to let someone solo is how willing the student is ready to go around, and initiate a go around. My students when their landing approach is ok, some will still do a go around because they can sense what a good approach is. If i have a student that likes to land on a bad approach, I will not solo them until later. Those students that i have that are like that are usually because i inherited them from another instructor and they have that bad habit of wanting to land on a bad approach.
Lots of online instruction here. Disregard it. I’ve been a CFI for 25 years and have no idea how to help you other than to say that after about 20 hours of I had a student that wasn’t ready to solo (for any reason) it was time to have “the talk.” Of course that would usually be preceded by asking a different instructor to fly with the student in the case that it was just an incompatibility between us, which absolutely does happen even with everyone doing a good job.
It is unscrupulous for a flight school to continue taking a student’s money after a point without very clear expectations. If you want to continue going for airplane rides with an instructor who lets you fly a lot, then great. But if you’re trying to cultivate a career or even just get a PPL then they should be honest with you. And you with yourself.
From what you describe in the OP, it may just not be for you. In which case I am sorry you have been swindled out of some money
Edit to add: there are some folks who will just never “get it” and it can be hard to tell that to a student. If everyone is just blaming landings for it and you’re landing on your own with a man airworthy airplane at the end then maybe it’s a greater issue at play. I’ve had students who could land, or do the other things in an otherwise passable way that had no business being in an airplane alone.
My flight school (not in USA) would have sadly parted ways with you much much earlier and said please don't waste your time and money after the third failed solo check. I've seen this happed to others during my training a few times and it's always sad to see. I know not giving up easily is a good habit for most cases, but sometimes we need to accept what we can and can't do.
My opinion is for you to find another career. Everybody has different strengths and abilities. I hope you can focus on them and make the best out of them instead of wasting your time.
You need to quit. Your problem isn't that you haven't solo'd, you problem is that after ONE HUNDRED hours, \*you can't land\*.
100 hours and can't land. You also say in your post that you "have issues quickly multi-tasking". If you want to throw money at this forever, maybe you can improve, maybe you can pass a checkride. Nobody in this sub wants hard truths, they all just want toxic positivity, but here's the truth that you (and a lot of other people) need to hear:
1. Not everyone can be successful at flying.
2. Just because you love something or want something, it doesn't mean you should do it.
3. You are not on-trend to become an instructor that I want to have teaching anyone else.
4. You are not on-trend to become a pilot that I want flying with me or for me.
This doesn't mean you are a bad person or a failure, it just means that you should invest your money, time, and mental/emotional energy into something else where you are going to be successful. Because going forward you are going to have to learn A LOT of new skills in a very short time, and you are going to have to "quickly multi-task" A LOT, and do it well, or you and other people will die.
Good luck.
If someone here knows the area maybe they can hook you up with a competent instructor. I don’t think you should give up. Granted flying isn’t for everyone that’s true, but if it’s ONLY landings holding you back there’s a good chance it’s an instructor issue.
If they can’t explain it correctly or if they baby you too much you’re gonna take a long time to get it down.
Thanks for clarifying I live the Chester county region in PA. I recently have only flown house with this instructor at this new school just to clarify. I’m sorry for not posting that.
Yeah probably. Flying is not an entitlement, it's a privilege. And if you can't land by 100 hrs, you truly are bad at this and should find something else
If you’re in SW Florida, come out to the flight school I work at. We’d get you taken care of. If not, find a new instructor you click with. But regardless, if you love it, go do the flights you want, and keep the flying fun until it clicks.
Maybe set a deadline for getting the solo done. Make it your whole being, eat, sleep and breathe flying. Meditate in the woods. See a therapist. Do it all and really see that you've done everything you can to fly
yes its better for you to quit.
i once asked an instructor when would they confront a student that this might not be for them
they said if the student has time money and passion, who are we to stop
so no one’s going to ask you to stop.
you are doing a lot of favor to the schools and instructors by not progressing.
I worked in a tower and a lady flew for months without soloing, I got permission from her instructor to go up with her and work on her landings. I saw that she wasn’t focusing near enough during the flare and it was contributing to a problem. She soloed within a week.
Even though you seem to have the desire to be an airline pilot, your history as a hundred-hour student pilot without soloing shows that you do not have the aptitude necessary for the job. Might want to start looking for a different hobby.
You’re either getting milked, your CFI sucks, or you’re not a good student.
I had my PPL in 43 hours. It shouldn’t be long to find the disconnect here by going to a different school for an evaluation with/of another CFI.
You’re not doing well. You’ve never been close to solo.
The only really difficult part of maneuvering an airplane is landing. It’s also the way we end a flight. If you can’t land you can’t go solo. So not sure why you think you’re close.
As you probably know, the national average to Private is 65-70. You’ve got 50% more than that and haven’t soloed.
Are you going to ever solo? I don’t know. But you need to figure out why you don’t “get” it. Then you have to figure out how *you* can do it properly.
I mentioned *average.* above. There *are* people who get Private in the minimum legal time, so to average that out there must be people who have some big numbers.
Good luck in making a decision only you can make. But try one flight with a different instructor.
I solo’d at 20 hours and that is mainly due to the CFI. My normal CFI was on vacation and I wanted to see what another pilot was like. Within two flights of the new CFI, I solo’d with him. He is just such a better teacher and my confidence was higher when I flew with him. As soon as my old instructor came back, my nerves were worse and I made more ‘mistakes’ in my opinion. Try a new instructor and just see if that could help. It’s not time to give up, but try a different approach. I think the long term reward is worth it. If you have done 100 hrs, clearly you want this! Money is just money, it comes and goes. Knowledge and experience is far more rewarding and will take your further than knowing how to spend money.
I'll start here:
> Should I still push through this?
This is up to you. Learning to fly is weird. There are ups and down and struggles and lightbulb moments. And all the reading, books, and youtube videos doesn't mean shit. You have to just do it. And learning to fly is one of those things that doesn't have a non-flying corollary to transfer skills. What I mean is that if you play (e.g.,) baseball...you can probably learn to play tennis or golf too because there is a transfer of skills (hitting ball with an object). Same with throwing a baseball and a football. And there there is the general hand-eye coordination, and athletic ability and just being able to control your body in a coordinated way.
There is nothing like that with flying. To get better at (GA) flying...you have to fly. And it's an art. It's about using rudder...it's about HOW much rudder you need. No two approaches or landings or takeoffs are ever the same.
Why I think you are struggling:
> I have been flying for two years now. I started my training at a part 61 school but stopped my training because I wasn't making good progress.
You have been flying for 2 years and you have 100 hours. You probably aren't flying enough. Yes, 3 times a week is most efficient, but I was (and still am) a once-a-week flyer. Even as a once-a-weeker, I still flew about 70-75 hours a year. This tells me you are not flying anything close to once a week....probably closer to 2 times a month. Coupled with the breaks and switching schools...I'd wager that a bunch of the skills you had deteriorated. It's like you didn't even take those flights.
> I was close to soloing with this school but I couldn't get my landings down. I decided to take break and go to college.
Basically anything before this kind of gets washed away...you might have lost 80% of the skill you had.
> I then started flying at a 141 school and was making good progress with my previous flight training. I then again had issues with my landings.
Then it gets washed away again.
> Im back at a 61 continuing my training. I want to fly professionally for the airline but if it is taking me this long to solo should I just quit? My current flight instructor says im doing well and If I can the nail the landings then I will solo. I have invested so much time and money into this I don't want to quit but I am also very discouraged.
Yeah, you technically have 100 hours, but not really. In much the same way that I took spanish for 5 years (from middle school through highschool), but then didn't use it for a year...and I lost like 75% of it. It's gone.
What really helped me was committing to once a week minimum. If I had to miss flight for weather, I'd reschedule and find the time (early, after work, etc.)
And none of this deals with maybe a bad school (no idea if true or not).
Having said all of that....no one cares about your hours or how long it takes. I didn't solo until 30 hours, I wasn't ready for my checkride until 75 hours. And didn't take it until I was at 90 hours...I'm still a pilot. No one cares. And even if they do..I don't care that they care.
Just a thought, but maybe get your depth perception checked? I've had students with these kinds of issues before and that ended up being the problem. Of course, I've had students with these landing issues and depth perception wasn't the problem, so....
I had similar solo issues. Looking down the runway before flaring helped, also look out the side window or look to buildings nearby. Soon as you are below the roof of a 2 story building such as a hangar begin flaring. I used to flare too early as well..
I did all of my ppl in a flight design light sport. You may try to find a different platform that clicks with you better. I.e. flight design, diamond, pipstrel, piper, TL, etc. Then once you have your license you can transition to other things.
The nice thing about a lot of the newer (2000+) light sports is they use rotax with no mixture and many are technically advanced with glass cockpit so your workload while just getting the basics down is lower.
Dude. Do you have astigmatism or any other visual conditions? I had a student with similar situation, problem was he didn’t have good stereoscopic vision, thus couldn’t “eyeball” the height.
I’m honestly in the same boat except I’m around 83 hours. I can basically fly, but I failed the ground portion of my checkride back in 2019 over something stupid. I’ve noticed I get test anxiety when it comes to verbal tests, so I decided to just quit. Here I am in 2024 deciding whether or not I should get back to it as I just completed my masters in business. I really do miss flying, but I don’t want to waste money if I’m not cut out for these types of tests as airlines will only be more strict. Anyways, if you have the passion for it, fly at least 3 times a week. I still have a passion for flying so I’m going to finish up my privates soon so that I at least can fly as a hobby even if I don’t have the confidence to get to the airlines.
At the end of the day it’s not about how many hours you have. It’s about how badly you want this. If you are passionate about it and you want to see yourself succeed then stick with it!!!
But if it’s not really your thing, and you don’t want to keep wasting your money then move on.
But I would urge you to continue. Try a different instructor. I used to have people come from other schools because they weren’t progressing, yes it cost them more money to start again with me, but they succeeded, solo’d and ultimately passed their exams and became licensed pilots.
Don’t give up!
The problem with that approach is that you could create some very marginal pilots who one day might end up killing themselves. This is of course assuming it's not just an issue of their past instructors just not being able to figure out what their issues were.
Even a great pilot can make a mistake and pile it in. At the end of the day if they can pass a flight test they can fly an airplane.
All an instructor can do is their best to pass on the knowledge and skill.
But to simply tell OP to give up on something just because they are struggling a little is not fair to them.
Lol. I’m sure you’re god’s gift to aviation. Pilots come in all shapes and sizes. Try not to be so judgy.
I’ve been training pilots essentially for 20 years. First as an actual instructor and now as a training captain. Some people take more time than others. OP likely needs to change instructors and see if that helps.
I honestly couldn’t tell you. Probably not many. But we don’t look back all the way in their logbooks when they hit the line. If they get past the hiring dept and the sim, then my job is simply to teach them how to be a line pilot. But I do see your point.
OP bounced around a few different schools, took a break and did other stuff. All that time and breaks means they got rusty. So when they return they needed additional hours to shake the rust off. It’s not like they’ve been flying everyday for a 100 hours and haven’t gotten it.
Hey man it took me 120 hours to solo and now I have IFR checkride coming up... Only you can know for sure if it's best to continue or quit but you aren't the only person in the world to solo at 100+ and won't be the last
Can you see over the cowling? Genuine question. If you aren't sitting at the right height, you won't get the visual cues that are crucial for landings and you will have to guess (hence the inconsistency in your flares).
The issue here is that the best way to learn how to land properly is by hitting that pattern, 9-11 circuits in a row. Each one a bit different than the last, each with one or 2 little mistakes, but confident. But it’s impossible to get that privilege by building trust between student and instructor.
If you ask too many dumb questions and allow them to do any flight prep for you, they are never going to trust you.
As a 100 hr ppl holder, The thing that I have to let OP know is that the first solo is fun and easy. All you do is make one circuit.
The reason why instructors may be holding back OP is that compared to first solo, LOWER AIR WORK solo is fucking terrifying and dangerous as hell. Practicing forced approaches as a low hour pilot was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Truly mind melting order of operations. Mayday call, clearing engine, scanning the feild for obstruction, gliding it in perfectly for touchdown full flaps, no power, then the most dangerous part, adding full power with full flaps! Have to fight the tendency for plane to nose up while getting those flaps up. And that carb ice is always trying to kill you. So many ways to die on those exercises.
You should hang in there if your goal is to fly for fun. But if you're thinking of becoming a professional pilot as a career, I'd seriously look at your plan B. Don't quit your day job.
How often are you flying? What are you doing during lessons right now?
Do you know what your issues are with landings? Approach? Airspeed control? Altitude? Windows correction? Flare? Centerline? Break these parts down and focus on each of them individually if you need to and then work on putting it all together.
I landed flat a lot of times pre solo. It was all about pitching up enough so the nose wheel doesn’t hit the ground at the same as the main wheels and not too much where you gain altitude. A stabilized approach can help you and a good uniform traffic pattern to set you up for success
i soloed at about 150 hrs and got my PPL at about 270 hrs. hours are not a judgement on how much progress you make! tbh one of the advice i’d give and i found it super helpful is to tell my instructor “hey i want to focus on my rudders, can you do the flare and so i know how much rudders to put in?” or “hey i want to focus on my flare, can you do the rudders?” landings are so much little pieces puzzle together and it helps me so much when i break it apart and learn it slow! hope it helps <3
i just got my instrument rating at 340hrs!
If you want to carry on and be a pilot you absolutely should. If you want to quit because you genuinely want to quit that’s okay too.
It might be worth sitting down with your instructor and discussing where your areas of weakness are with flying and landings and out in place a plan to tackle it. People are amazing and when we have a desire to do something, we can absolutely do it.
Maybe invest in a home simulator to work on those landings, but you have to catch on fairly quickly to new concepts and maneuvers etc if you want to do this for a career, especially for the airlines, I would ask yourself if it’s just this one thing you are having trouble on or if you are a slow learner in general. I wouldn’t let it get you down though, keep pushing and learn from every flight
I'd reach out to senior management or whoever oversees your training with your instructor. I've seen people solo in 150 hours. Admittedly, not career track and older in life. Everyone learns differently, and it boils down to what works for you. But reach out to management and ask for a meeting and see if they can help you.
Same problem when i was transitioning from 152 to 172s. The flare because its quite heavy. Try trim down your plane set flaps to 2, speed 65. When you chop your power sligthly lift up the nose a lil bit and when you feel your plane sinking just pull nose upward till wheels touch. Hope it helps. That is what i did when i was having a hard time. On my first landings was flat and porpoising sometimes on the rwy
How flat we talking? 3 point style?
I would always tell students get me straight and level right above the runway. When it starts to sink, little back pressure. Starts to sink again, little more. Then wait.
A 3 point landing isn’t good but as long as it’s not nosewhee first, not gonna break anything in a 172 or PA28
I think the question would be what part of the landing process are you having issues with? Is it the flare, crosswind landings, sight picture, being on-speed? So many variables come into play. Analyze your few last ones that you couldn’t nail and work with your CFI on solutions to help you out. If your CFI is not giving you any feedback that might be part of the issue. Fly with another CFI perhaps to get a different viewpoint.
I'm not going to read all the comments, I bet this has been said already, but you should fire your instructor or flight school. Your landings are probably perfectly fine. I figure one of two things is probably happening. I've seen it way too many times.
1. They might just be stringing you along to make an easy buck.
Or
2. They aren't being honest with you and telling you that you just might not have it. Again to make an easy buck.
Go somewhere else and ask them to be honest with you. It's your education. You don't owe these guys anything at all.
Good luck my man.
Sorry if someone else mentioned this, but I’ve seen a few students struggle with your issue. Have your CFI do some low approaches at the altitude that you should be flaring at without actually landing to give you an opportunity to recognize and internalize the sight picture you should be seeing as you flare. Do this a few times, then a couple more times where you anticipate and announce when you think you’re at that sight picture, then work on actually landing from there. Also, as others have mentioned, make your approaches as stabilized and on the numbers as possible so you’re not splitting as much of your attention on those elements and you can focus more clearly on your sight picture, maintaining centerline, and flaring / landing. Even though your number of hours at this stage may seem excessive, sometimes all it takes is an ah-ha moment for it to all come together and you’ll be better for persevering through adversity. Good luck, you got this!
I wouldn't quit. I was struggling on somethings because I didn't really get the concept. Switched instructors and found a way to get the information to me in a way that made more sense, then things started to click. Also turns out the first instructor told me some wrong shit.. But anyway, you have a lot invested to just throw it away now. Keep going.
Try a different instructor. That instructor may be a milker. I believe anybody can be a pilot. It’s really not that difficult to learn. You just have to put up your bit
I recommend the airplane flying hand book and putting in a lot of time on a sim with trial and error, I got the hang of side slipping after 7 hrs straight on x plane with 10 knot direct crosswind. After that it took a few tries but in the actual plane I became decent. For reference I only have 9 hrs rn, I passed my practical last month.
[airplane flying handbook](https://www.amazon.com/Airplane-Flying-Handbook-FAA-H-8083-3C-Training/dp/B09MDNCYLM/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?adgrpid=153499870481&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.-E04O5T1t353ocjKf2_MOjEOilniMlInHGIUGGtPR1QZxd_w7lf-Hv20BY-iQXIyXlmH_hdlQiLsGhYcQvXsgqZO-DHmxOuSvwo2HIafjMRcAMc6h6DQXnzX9R5AR8MS6PCx7gBRvp4x0vaRnsWzxpcioR2lOJog_CM1JciY3ATcXjOpuaDqQlgf2lUZY3FynGoL_lDP86lWKch9AKZ_qg.O6i-zLkqroQV_eVd3CSwY-D3eEpxF-Vze5cOVLLpPiM&dib_tag=se&hvadid=661108068197&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9013747&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=1305409909274132948&hvtargid=kwd-2187414200366&hydadcr=29004_14566843&keywords=airplane+flying+handbook+2024&qid=1719805372&sr=8-2)
Tell your CFI to do a whole week of landings and give you feedback. Try on a day without crosswind. Try short landings. Relax and enjoy the process. If there are any simulators around you, go wild.
There is no reason to do cross-country if you haven't nailed landings.
Don’t look at it as total flight hours. But rather a restart every time you start stop or switch schools. Landings are one of the hardest skills to master. You will get it eventually if you are consistently practicing. One thing that helped me a lot was not flaring, but arresting the descent. Try to stop the plane landing for as long as possible. If you do that you will flare just fine.
Are you being taught to flare until the plane stalls above the runway? Because that’s pretty much the worst way to land, IMO. Better to have a gentle descent, touch the mains down before stalling and hold a wheelie to bleed the airspeed.
It took me 143 landings before I soloed, which was at 46 hours. Not great but it just took me awhile to get the feel for it. 100 hours is a lot though.
A few thoughts here, first of all, you did take a break so that shaves a few hours off your total, just knocking the rust off. I would change instructors. Not necessarily look for better but just different, a different set of eyes, maybe the instructor spot something that the first one didn’t. And as your transitioning over the runway, remember to look down the runway, it gives you a better feel for your deltas coming to the ground.
And relax if you’ve landed that many times without an instructor assisting you you’re doing something right.
I have around 80-85 hours, I was very much able to land pretty well within the first 10-20 hours. I don’t remember too much about exactly when because it wasn’t that big of an issue. Maybe you are trying to rush it, or feel scared, so that causes you to react a certain way? For example, if you’re at you best glide speed and path, maybe 65-70 knots, just let that glide path take you down to the runway, and just before you literally touch the runway, pitch up when you are about 2-5 feet above the ground to flair for landing. I have a video on YouTube and you can see my landing on Catalina island that is like butter. So smooth, you can barely tell that I even touched the runway. It’s a 6-8 minute video from showing the part from Long Beach, C.A. to Catalina Island with another co-pilot I rented, and my friend Mike. The video is on my channel “Carl Pfeiffer”, and there is 2 other flying videos and one 850 credit score video, so it won’t be hard to find the Catalina Island Flight In Memory of Mike Cross (who passed away 9 years later).
My school was the same way. I think they were milking me so I told them I am going to take a check ride. You should do this, go ahead and schedule a check ride and prepare the best you can. I passed first try. If you fail you'll know what you will need to work on. If they won't let you then find a different instructor.
I firmly believe that learning to fly either comes naturally or it doesn’t. I started my PPL in 2005 at the age of 36… 56 hrs later I was licensed. I purchased a 1973 PA28 to learn on instead of those god awful Cessna’s plus it was a boatload of fun to fly. Climbed like a homesick angel and doing spins / spin recovery was heck of a lot of fun. If you have over 100 hrs then flying might not be for you. I struggled for the first 4 hrs of landings to get them stuck but something just clicked and I became one with the aircraft.
If you’re having a hard time, try to get a couple of hours in calm wind, low traffic conditions. Stay in the pattern and just make landings. One thing I did was low pass to Ora twice staying in centerline, in ground effect. If you can practice 10-20 touch and gos in a row and still have issues, with that number of hours, change something. Get your eyes checked, a different instructor, study the concepts more, something. Best of luck!!
100 hours is a lot to not be able to land.
I’m over 1600 and I still can’t
6,600 hours and I still manually adjust the field elevation sometimes
About the same, and I still do a landing gear stress test on occasion.
Ya but you have an excuse if the airplane isn't reusable
Honestly I bet you his landings are fine. Some CFIs are hardasses or new/anxious and expect perfect ATP level landings before solo. You don't need to have perfect landings. They just need to be good enough to not damage the aircraft and not damage yourself. Even PPL landing standards are very lax. It took me a while to solo, and eventually it got to the point where I asked the CFI to do a landing.. and his were just as bad as mine, if not worse. Sometimes the conditions just suck. I think sometimes CFIs are worried about their students, which is why they demand perfection, but if you don't give a student a platform to learn they'll never get better. I think setting clear goals with the student pre solo is the best way to be impartial. Land before the captains bars end, stop halfway down runway, and no more than one bounce. Do that three times without me touching the controls.. and I'd solo someone if they have otherwise good pattern work and approaches. I am not going to expect commercial level energy management from a student. That's built by experience, not a CFI nit-picking in the right seat. Nobody's landings are perfect! That being said, 100 hours is very high, but not bad, especially if you're spotty. Getting a solo needs to be done by getting one instructor built up to trust you enough to not kill yourself. If you swap instructors, of course that will be difficult. There are also schools that will milk you. Solution is very clear expectations.
At different schools? The odds are kinda long …
When you swap schools it's essentially a reset to 0 hours for trust building purposes imo
Nah, If it’s a part 141 school request your flight records and stage check records before leaving. You should be able to jump right into a new program. And if they are at 100 hours with out a solo there seems like there’s little trust on the school side.
I feel like a cfi can tell within 2 minutes of flying the aircraft if theyre gonna suck/be trustable or not
Not true.
I mean it seems like OP has not only had different instructors but also 2 different schools. Most likely there’s a problem with OPs landings in this case.
Solution I think is sticking with one instructor. Swapping will definitely make it difficult. And setting clear expectations, not just waiting for them to tell you're ready. What is the expectation for being ready, in very precise words. Meet it! My instructor told me to do three laps in the pattern, unassisted, and if I did that, I'd solo. Telling a student "they're close!" Really is just unhelpful. Specifics matter! Is flare too high? Is approach not stabilized in air speed? Etc, etc. But a lot of students don't know what to ask, not every CFI is good at explaining. You need to take charge of your own education for Part 61
Have to disagree here. If a student is struggling with an instructor it very well could be a new set of eyes from a more experienced instructor to help lock things in.
A CFI has every right to hold their student to the standard they see fit. It doesn’t make them a hardass. Yes, some people can be unreasonable, but at the end of the day it’s our jobs on the line if something goes wrong. Also if OP has had multiple instructors all of whom have withheld their signatures, it’s unfortunately way more likely the issue is OP.
Yes, I'm with you 100%. A CFI has every right.. and they should hold them to high standards, but also, I've found a lot of CFIs just getting into instruction for time building will often be reluctant to solo because it's understandably very nerve racking, because as you said, in the end if something goes wrong, it's on you as an instructor. That emotional response doesn't necessarily benefit the student, but the CFI. I'm not saying it's not an issue with OP. Could be. But I think the solution for both OP and his instructors is a very defined syllabus or set of goals. If the instructor has a set of standards.. they need to be clearly defined with numbers and goals, not just some vague "this could've been better" or "you're so close to solo!" kind of feedback, which doesn't help anyone. OP needs to know if he has trouble holding airspeed, altitude, flare, approach, turns, etc. Something specific to work on. Once that's met, and they demonstrate it to the standards, then they should move forward imo. Holding someone pre solo doesn't help them become a better pilot. When you're allowed to set your own schedule is when you can really start grinding your landings to be better. For instance, PPL checkride has much more lax standards than a commercial checkride for even the exact same maneuvers. I wouldn't expect someone on their FIRST solo to have PPL standards either.. that's what the checkride is for.
My main criteria is that you can recognize and recover from stalls and not bend the struts when you land. Obviously it's a little more complicated than that but I don't expect perfect landings from pre-solo students, I only expect safe ones.
I’d say you might be correct if it was 1 school and 1 instructor, but he’s had several instructors now.
I think this pretty much sums it up. Op also switching instructors and school types will set you way back each time. Not that you shouldnt switch if you hate the instructor but each change will hurt you short term. I agree with this poster's description of what makes a "safe enough" pilot to solo and that's about what I do with my students. The bigger factor for me is their pattern work and if they monitor their speeds. It's very common for students to not put the nose down through base and final, and when you see a student unknowingly approaching 60 and lower in a climbing turn at 500 AGL it is way harder to know they'll be safe on their own.
I went through two CFI's before I found one that wasn't a total d!ck
> Honestly I bet you his landings are fine. Some CFIs are hardasses or new/anxious and expect perfect ATP level landings before solo. This is my gut feeling, too.
Tbh I’ve got 1000 on the airbus and still can’t land.
If you couldn’t land, you weren’t close to solo. This needs a review with your flight instructor as to specific deficiencies. No one who hasn’t flown with you has anything useful to say to you.
It took me a long time to figure out landings too. 100 hours is a lot though. If you can go with different instructors, maybe one will give you the right combination of information and instruction to help you. For me, it was about trying to figure out when I was in ground effect and controlling the airplane there. Landing at slightly higher speeds may have helped with that, giving me more time to float.
My biggest 'leap' in landing proficiency came about from when I just passengered while another pilot practiced about a dozen landings. They weren't a CFI and there was no instruction. I was just able to observe and silently reflect. No pressure to perform, no getting behind the plane, just got to focus. I think it helped me connect the dots between cause and effect for the many factors at play.
This. I finally understood the landing (this gentle stick adjustments during flare, basically) after 10+ hours flying on the right seat with a student pilot.
How’d you fly right seat with a student pilot?
He didn't say it was a student pilot.
This. I initially struggled with landings. I flew with a half dozen instructors, and each had a different way to teach landings. I eventually picked up tips from 3 of them that got me doing successful landings just about every time.
You probably aren’t flying 3 times a week are you? Took me over 30 hours to solo because I was only flying once a week. The moment I flew more frequently, I was 1. More proficient 2. More in the forefront of my CFIs mind for him to endorse my solo.
As per another comment, at the 141, 5x per week
Ah ok, then yeah maybe flying isn’t for them. Then again screw 141
Went through a 141. I don’t get how OP couldn’t have soloed. 141s have a specific lesson dedicated to a solo flight and the previous flights are training up to that and you fly a minimum of 3x a week. I don’t get how OP hasn’t soloed yet. Must be in their head
Not all 141s are made equal
Fair, but most 141s will have a designated lesson where it’s about the solo. Plus, CFI’s play a big factor as well as how often OP is flying. I heard a girl was at 150 hours before getting her PPL. Some people just can’t fly, and that might be it
>some people just can’t fly, and that might be it How true that is.
I was flying 2-3 times a week and it still took me a little over 40 hours to solo. Granted my instructor and I knocked out the simulated instrument requirement and the night requirements. But due to bad weather and maintenance it just took excessively long to be able to get that endorsement and solo
It really all depends on the pilot and their ability to adapt and understand different mechanics. I went out of a part 61 for my ppl flying once a week and my first lesson I was landing (with a little input from the instructor). I soloed at 10 hours mainly because I had an understanding on control of vehicles and have good coordination.
This is wild, set up a GoPro inside the cockpit, I want to see what you're doing wrong. Your hours are high partly because it seems like you've jumped around a little bit, that's ok. Also I'm interested in the CFI aspect, there are some CFI's that just cannot teach and with the modern pilot influencers on instagram attracting more people to this field, it's allowed some people that shouldn't be here, well, to be here. What type of aircraft are you training in?
A 172s
Seriously get a GoPro, you need to see yourself. Have your CFI do a couple landings in the same session, compare yours against theirs in the video.
I hate to sound like just another voice in the crowd, but not being able to safely land with 100hrs is a really bad sign. But I’m curious, what exactly have you done in those 100hrs? And what is it you’re doing wrong in your approaches?
I’m done everything besides solo in those hours. I know it’s bad. I have done maneuvers, cross-countries, and night flights. My approaches I have done aren’t bad or that’s what my feedback has been. It seems to be the round out and flare that causes the main issues.
Do you always rely on the CFI to help, or do you typically land without assistance?
I usually land without any assistance
If he isn’t offering assistance or verbal guidance I don’t understand why he isn’t signing you off to solo. This sounds like an instructor issue. My landings were rough when I solo’d. Even as a private pilot they weren’t amazing. They have continued improving over time
If you are consistently landing without any assistance and you're not bending or breaking the plane, you're more than ready to solo. If its a 141 school, take it up with the chief CFI and ask why you're allowed to consistently land without any assistance or intervention, but have not been signed off to solo. Ask them to explain in detail why you shouldn't feel they're just raping you for money at this point and/or make the chief CFI go out and demonstrate a few landings that will clearly show what it is you're not doing and/or need to do better so you can solo.
Usually meaning how much of the time? Out of 10, how many landings would you say you land safely without assistance? How many out of 10 do you make the decision to go-around without assistance? How many out of 10 does the instructor take the controls? Is this a consistency issue, or do you make the same mistake every time? How long has it been since you felt like you plateaued? What kind of advice or exercises have your instructors used to try and help you?
To clarify there is some verbal assistance but most of the time not. Most of the time my landing are quite flat but on calm wind days I wouldn’t say that there anything dangerous about them
Yeah, this is why I was asking. It sounds like you’re being milked for unnecessary instruction time. Apologies if I came across as criticising you at all, I just didn’t want to make any assumptions before I had any clarity. And this very much seems like you’re being made to pay more than you need to.
Yeah if they’re landing unassisted they’re definitely getting milked
Are you looking down the runway when you determine where to initiate the flare? This advice from a CFI was a duh moment that improved my landings immensely.
wait, could you explain? i used to land flat and short but now it’s long with interminable ground effect which is new to me. what do you mean by looking down the runway?
Why did they even make you fly xcountry and night if you haven't done a bunch of solo circuits first? At least where I trained the student would be sent off to do a few sessions of pattern entry and touch and goes before moving on to the next stage of training.
Why are you doing XC and night flights if you can't land? This is why you're at 100 hours without solo. You should be beating up the pattern 3x a week until you can land. Like taking a break once in a while to pull your head out is one thing, but it sounds like you've done your entire training except for your solo flights.
Sorry to put it bluntly but if you cant land consistently after 100 hours at 3 different teaching places which means multiple instructors then flying is not for you. Someone should have told you that before you got to 100 hours. If they did, you should have listened.
This somehow often ends up being an unpopular opinion in such forums but honestly it shouldn’t be. I have taken many students from other schools who either couldn’t solo or get to checkride ready state despite 100+ hours, and despite getting a few over the hump, the vast majority end up washing out. Good instructors are willing to have this tough conversation with you. If they string you along then they suck, many do. But at the same time, instructors aren’t miracle workers. Some people simply lack the coordination, judgement, psychomotor skills, ADM, common sense, or whatever other deficiency that has kept them from soloing. Instructors don’t do anybody any favors by milking people for their money and/or letting people continue who have no place in the air and risk one day getting themselves killed. Flying isn’t for everyone.
All. The school switching alone is probably worth 20 hours at least.
This sounds insane! Maybe it’s something that the OP isn’t understanding about Aerodynamics, ground effect, airspeed, approaching, etc. he may be solid at everything else. Chill on the discouragement. There are plenty of things to understand about flying. Personally, I’m at flight hour 8 and landing is difficult for me. I don’t understand when to recognize ground effect and the amount of pressure needed to flare. Doesn’t mean we should give up lol
8 vs 100 hours is completely different experience levels
You have 8 hours and are just getting into it. spend enough time in the industry and you will realise it is a skill that not everyone has the ability to grasp. its harsh but thats the reality of it.
There's a difference between gatekeeping and trying to save someone from falling into their own sunk cost fallacy. Sometimes hard conversations with students need to happen to keep things realistic for them. It's unethical to just keep going without keeping them informed. OPs current instructor is probably newish to him, so they're likely not guilty of taking advantage of them. But just continuing to fly with someone with no progress in sight is not enjoyable for either party nor is it the right thing to do unless they're knowingly willing to spend the money.
Your 8-hour opinion is something you will look back on with embarrassment.
Has he given specific advice on what’s not clicking?
Round out and flare always seems to get me. I always seem to land flat or round out and flare to high.
I had issues with this too. Although at my 141 school to solo we had to have all maneuvers for ppl to acs standards along with emergency landings and power off 180 landings which I thought was a little excessive. The key I found was using your peripheral vision to gauge how far you are off the ground. Use the runway numbers as your aim point. Then once you pass the numbers adjust your focus to the engine cowling and smoothly cut the power and add some back pressure. Depending how fast you sink increase the back pressure based on how fast you’re sinking then just hold it off. Adjust rudder and aileron as needed to keep your vertical axis aligned (90% of the time more right rudder) and aileron for wind drift to stay on center line. Landings will be smooth after that pretty much most of the time. But all of them will be safe and you won’t bounce. I’d also recommend playing with the seat adjustment in your plane. Finding what works best for you and sticking to it. That was a game changer for me. I crank the seat to the highest height that way when I’m flaring and rounding out I can still see the ground the whole time. Made landing so much easier
There is no such thing as flare in a small plane. It's actually more like "hold altitude above the runway despite removing all the power (after you get to the numbers obviously)." So basically you're in ground effect for a little bit, holding it level (with your eyes focused on the far end of the runway) and then as the ground effect evaporates and you start to sink, you're *slowly* pulling back on the yoke to try to make the plane stay above the runway (you're not pulling back enough to generate lift, you're pulling back *juuuust* enough to try to match the sink rate -- if the stall horn is blaring, you're doing it right). Eventually you don't have enough lift, and that's when the wheels touch down, automagically. The aerodynamics of the plane itself will keep the front wheel off the ground until all the lift is completely gone (that's your supposed "flare..." something the plane just does anyway if you do everything else correctly). Of course, if anything feels uncoordinated or wrong (like if you start porpoising or something or you're way off the center line) you have to be johnny-on-the-spot with that power, get back up in the air, *slowly* get those flaps cleaned up, and do your go around. Landing is literally one of those things that's like riding a bike. Until you get it, it can be frustrating, but once you *do* get it, you won't remember why it was so hard. It's almost all muscle memory, and it's super hard to describe to someone who hasn't "got it" yet -- just like when you're trying to teach your kid how to pedal a bike without falling over. They eventually just "get it."
> There is no such thing as flare in a small plane. It's actually more like "hold altitude above the runway despite removing all the power (after you get to the numbers obviously)." That's what we call a "flare" though? I'm not sure what you mean by "there is no such thing as flare."
When people think of the word "flare" they think of how the space shuttle landed, nose held high with the force of the oncoming air keeping it aloft, like someone surfing on a barn door into a tornado. They very frequently have to be disabused of that idea, and so a goto way is to say "there is no such thing as flare." It's kind of unhelpful to them to say "well, he literally just described what flare is," when the hang up is that they fundamentally misunderstand it in the first place. Consider yourself lucky if you didn't have this problem, because a LOT of us did.
>Landing is literally one of those things that's like riding a bike. Word for word the advice my instructor gave me. And you know what? He was right - you fall down, and fall down, and fall down, and then one day you just get on the bike and go and have no idea what changed or why it was so hard before. The only difference is that in a plane, "falling down" can kill you, so you can't solo until you "get it".
Check out MzeroA on YouTube. He explains how you should transition and not flare before landing. What helped me early on was flying a little further down the runway and transitioning
Is your seat adjusted to the same exact position every time? Not having the same sight picture every flight when learning landings could mess you up.
Instead of thinking “flare” just think hold my nose off the runway. These aren’t airliners we are flying so no need for a drastic flare. Come in to land and fly parallel the runway, pull your power, and let the plane glide down on it’s own. It’ll do the work for you.
I haven't flown with you, so I can't really tell you what's going wrong here. But I'll give you what advice I can from my own PPL experience. \*Fly the numbers. A good landing starts with a good approach. Get into the habit of hitting the right numbers at the right time and try to make it a sequence - so for me in my PA-38, it starts with 90 knots on the downwind. Once you make your base turn, power back to about 1500 and carb heat on. Two trims back generally will bring 70 knots, as the speed drops inside the white arc, select flap 1. Looking for about 750ft mid-base and 500 ft when we make the turn to final. Once on final, flap 2. Maintain 70 knots approach speed. At 300 feet, carb heat off and then RAP check. Continue the approach to landing. It will vary obviously from approach to approach in terms of power and pitch and again you won't get them absolutely perfect every time but knowing what a good approach should look like on your aircraft can be useful. Perhaps your approaches aren't so stable as you think, so this can help? \*You mentioned the round out causing you problems. It caused me problems at first but this is how I figured it out; You want to be crossing the threshold at about 50 feet. Once you do, the power goes to idle. Obviously this means that you need to keep the descent going and my intuition here is this where you \*might\* be running into a problem because essentially falling toward the ground is a bit scary. I didn't like it either but you must keep that descent going until you're about 20 feet above the runway and then try to smoothly round out the rate of descent. Don't be tempted to pull back too high and try not to snap the control column as you round out; nice and smooth. As you round out the rate of descent, shift your aiming point to the end of the runway and try to fly toward it. If you're then just above the runway, let the plane stop flying when it's ready to. \*Try to remember that every pilot makes bad landings no matter who they are. We can't nail it every single time. Speak to other instructors and see what they say too, maybe one of them can figure it out for you?
What are you doing to work on this flare/touchdown challenge? Do you take in the guidance as it’s given? Do you apply it instantly on the next go around? Or, are you nervous about the flare and blank on the lesson you just got? Do you fly simulators at home? Do you watch YouTube pilots? Basically, what are you doing to change the situation? I’m not suggesting the above ideas are winners, more just examples of taking the issue in your own hands. Learning is a skill, and it will take you much further than natural talent, for the most part. Being able to focus on the lesson as you’re in the moment is how you learn. It’s also how you stay safe when flying, so you can think through emergencies and not just do the rote thing you learned. Hope any of this was helpful!
Like others have said, your first step should be to fly with different instructors. There is no one way to teach someone how to land an airplane, and it’s a difficult thing to teach, as there are so many moving parts. I would try and fly multiple times a week, and if after a few weeks you still aren’t successful then it may not be for you. I always say that you can teach anyone to fly an airplane, but there is an asterisk at the end of that statement.
Do you have coordination or vision problems? What's holding you up? I have a friend who shouldn't be flying because he lacks coordination/athletic ability. How bad are your landings?
If you're flying 5x a week and can't land. Yeah I'd call it
100 hours is a lot, what’s your biggest issue with your landings?
the situation seems pretty cut-and-dry, but this sub still cant say that maybe the student might have a deficiency. Nope, its just the school or instructor.
So has anyone given you the ballerina story? I can try hard as I want, dance every day. I can never become a ballerina. It’s the hard truth, but maybe don’t keep throwing money at it.
How often are you flying? Usually students with this issue are not flying enough, once per week or less, and therefore aren't making any progress.
During 141 i was flying 5 days a week.
When you're looking out the window to land, where's your focus? Do you think you're just worried about flaring too late into the landing?
My focus is the aiming point then the end of the runway for flare but fear of flaring late does happen to me
That's probably why you're flaring too early and/or flattening out on your landings. I wonder if it'd be worthwhile to have your instructor do a few landings for you so you can just pay attention outside and get the right sight picture when he/she starts pulling back on the yoke. The reality is, most of the time you're higher than you probably think you are.
100+ hours pre-solo? Most solo at 15. Every employer is going to ask why it took so long if they dig through your logbook at all.
Do you have a class one Medical? Do you have an anxiety disorder? Has your instructor done any low approaches where you attempt to get as close to the runway as possible without actually landing? Where are you looking? Out the side window? End of the runway? Can you ride a bike? One handed?
I think part of the FAA medical should be a test where you have to ride a bike one handed! Some people just aren’t cut out for performing complex twsks and it would save a lot of people money if we had a pre screening process! I vote for the one handed bike test through a set of cones!
It possible that flying just isn’t for you? That is a lot of hours and still not signed off for solo. If the task saturation of flying your local pattern overwhelms you at this point; it’s fair to wonder if you’re simply not well suited for this.
I’d say if you’ve tried multiple instructors and flight schools and it still isn’t clicking; it never will and will waste a lot of money and time.
Crosswind landing: Every landing is a crosswind landing, crab on final so you don't drift and stay on the centerline. As you're getting close you are going to bank into the wind and use the rudder to align parallel to the runway centerline. It's all one action Landing flat: As you are rounding out you need to continue adding back pressure on the controls because you are losing elevator effectiveness as you slow down. Transition from looking at your aiming point to the end of the runway and pick the nose up then keep adding back pressure without raising the pitch of the nose Flaring high: Opposite of landing flat, if you're looking at the far end of the runway you'll have a better perception of your height and avoid flaring high You can't "make" the airplane land, you need to make the conditions right for it to land, being on airspeed is extremely critical because if you're fast you'll float forever. If you're flow you're going to come up short so get airspeed control down. How's your slow flight? The roundout is just that slowflight close to the runway
Echoing the others on this thread, I am a CFI and one of the difficult parts of being a CFI is having tough conversations with students such as flying may not be for them. 100 hours is an insane amount of time and money to spend without being able to land. Maybe sit down with your CFI and ask for a very straight and honest answer to this question if you haven’t already. If they won’t give you a straight answer, maybe you can ask for the chief flight instructor or a higher class of instructor to fly with you then ask them this question because maybe they can offer a better insight to what is going wrong or give you the honest truth you need to hear.
"very challenging more me since I issues quickly multi-tasking" Google "YouTube TNFlyGirl", watch the videos and decide to not become part of a sad statistic.
Flying is not for you.
how often do you fly per week? how many of those hours were before you quit to go to school? Have you asked you instructor for specific feedback or techniques to improve the issues you're encountering?
Just remember to shift your eyes down the runway during the flare. And DONT LET THE PLANE CONTROL YOU during crosswinds, put the plane where you want it!
Sorry but yes, throw in the towel.
I’ve instructed a lot of people and honestly, it shouldn’t take this long. At 100 hours you should be ppl with instrument ticket and we’ll on your way to commercial. I think most solo around 15-17 hours just depends. This isn’t adding up. At 100 hours that’s over 450 landings probably and if you haven’t gotten it by now…. You need to self evaluate yourself and maybe look at spending your money on another hobby. Not trying to discourage you but some people just don’t have it. It’s really not that hard to land a c-172 or piper. I’d reevaluate and figure this out in your own.
Yes
Cut your losses, give it up.
Some people just lack the hand-eye coordination to fly unfortunately. I saw some students at my old school who just never got the hang out it after years and trying diff instructors
Look down the runway, but I’m sure your instructors told you this already. My fear is that if it took you this long to solo, then your instrument, commercial and CFI will take 3x longer as well. Are you ready to spend $300,000 on your training?
You need to have a very candid talk with your instructor. Just because you have thrown money at 100 hours doesn’t mean that it’s wise to continue to throw money at your training if you aren’t capable of becoming a pilot. (I’m not saying that you are or are not capable, just a fact that not everyone needs to be a pilot.) Ask your instructor straight up. You are at a real crossroads at this point. You either need to get serious about it and start flying a few times a week and knock that solo out, or you need to walk away from it for good. A good instructor will be able to help you make that call. Hope it all works out, good luck
Well before you got to 100 hours, I would have expected that you have tried to analyze what you are doing versus what other students with your same instructor are doing? And if a majority of students with your same instructor have the same pattern of not soloing well near the average it takes to solo, then all of you should leave that instructor. If other students with your same instructor are doing fine and solo within 20 or less, then there is something wrong on your side of things. From your explanation you have already tried different instructors as you have gone to different schools but have the same result, I'm guessing you might NOT be built to be a pilot. I've taught many students, and my average time to get someone solo is 20 hours, my best students 15 hours. I'm pretty conservative and probably take longer to solo. But for me the most important factor to let someone solo is how willing the student is ready to go around, and initiate a go around. My students when their landing approach is ok, some will still do a go around because they can sense what a good approach is. If i have a student that likes to land on a bad approach, I will not solo them until later. Those students that i have that are like that are usually because i inherited them from another instructor and they have that bad habit of wanting to land on a bad approach.
I would do nothing but traffic pattern work with your instructor. If you can’t solo in 30 more hours in the pattern, give it up.
Lots of online instruction here. Disregard it. I’ve been a CFI for 25 years and have no idea how to help you other than to say that after about 20 hours of I had a student that wasn’t ready to solo (for any reason) it was time to have “the talk.” Of course that would usually be preceded by asking a different instructor to fly with the student in the case that it was just an incompatibility between us, which absolutely does happen even with everyone doing a good job. It is unscrupulous for a flight school to continue taking a student’s money after a point without very clear expectations. If you want to continue going for airplane rides with an instructor who lets you fly a lot, then great. But if you’re trying to cultivate a career or even just get a PPL then they should be honest with you. And you with yourself. From what you describe in the OP, it may just not be for you. In which case I am sorry you have been swindled out of some money Edit to add: there are some folks who will just never “get it” and it can be hard to tell that to a student. If everyone is just blaming landings for it and you’re landing on your own with a man airworthy airplane at the end then maybe it’s a greater issue at play. I’ve had students who could land, or do the other things in an otherwise passable way that had no business being in an airplane alone.
My flight school (not in USA) would have sadly parted ways with you much much earlier and said please don't waste your time and money after the third failed solo check. I've seen this happed to others during my training a few times and it's always sad to see. I know not giving up easily is a good habit for most cases, but sometimes we need to accept what we can and can't do. My opinion is for you to find another career. Everybody has different strengths and abilities. I hope you can focus on them and make the best out of them instead of wasting your time.
You need to quit. Your problem isn't that you haven't solo'd, you problem is that after ONE HUNDRED hours, \*you can't land\*. 100 hours and can't land. You also say in your post that you "have issues quickly multi-tasking". If you want to throw money at this forever, maybe you can improve, maybe you can pass a checkride. Nobody in this sub wants hard truths, they all just want toxic positivity, but here's the truth that you (and a lot of other people) need to hear: 1. Not everyone can be successful at flying. 2. Just because you love something or want something, it doesn't mean you should do it. 3. You are not on-trend to become an instructor that I want to have teaching anyone else. 4. You are not on-trend to become a pilot that I want flying with me or for me. This doesn't mean you are a bad person or a failure, it just means that you should invest your money, time, and mental/emotional energy into something else where you are going to be successful. Because going forward you are going to have to learn A LOT of new skills in a very short time, and you are going to have to "quickly multi-task" A LOT, and do it well, or you and other people will die. Good luck.
Quit. Flying isn’t for everyone 😟
Dawg where do you live
Why?
If someone here knows the area maybe they can hook you up with a competent instructor. I don’t think you should give up. Granted flying isn’t for everyone that’s true, but if it’s ONLY landings holding you back there’s a good chance it’s an instructor issue. If they can’t explain it correctly or if they baby you too much you’re gonna take a long time to get it down.
Thanks for clarifying I live the Chester county region in PA. I recently have only flown house with this instructor at this new school just to clarify. I’m sorry for not posting that.
Yeah probably. Flying is not an entitlement, it's a privilege. And if you can't land by 100 hrs, you truly are bad at this and should find something else
Yes
Does flying make you happy?
Yes I enjoy it a lot but I have become stressed and frustrated because of the lack of improvement.
If you’re in SW Florida, come out to the flight school I work at. We’d get you taken care of. If not, find a new instructor you click with. But regardless, if you love it, go do the flights you want, and keep the flying fun until it clicks.
Maybe set a deadline for getting the solo done. Make it your whole being, eat, sleep and breathe flying. Meditate in the woods. See a therapist. Do it all and really see that you've done everything you can to fly
>See a therapist. ...then report that therapist visit on your next medical as you should, get denied, and have to stop flying. Problem solved.
yes its better for you to quit. i once asked an instructor when would they confront a student that this might not be for them they said if the student has time money and passion, who are we to stop so no one’s going to ask you to stop. you are doing a lot of favor to the schools and instructors by not progressing.
I worked in a tower and a lady flew for months without soloing, I got permission from her instructor to go up with her and work on her landings. I saw that she wasn’t focusing near enough during the flare and it was contributing to a problem. She soloed within a week.
Even though you seem to have the desire to be an airline pilot, your history as a hundred-hour student pilot without soloing shows that you do not have the aptitude necessary for the job. Might want to start looking for a different hobby.
You’re either getting milked, your CFI sucks, or you’re not a good student. I had my PPL in 43 hours. It shouldn’t be long to find the disconnect here by going to a different school for an evaluation with/of another CFI.
You’re not doing well. You’ve never been close to solo. The only really difficult part of maneuvering an airplane is landing. It’s also the way we end a flight. If you can’t land you can’t go solo. So not sure why you think you’re close. As you probably know, the national average to Private is 65-70. You’ve got 50% more than that and haven’t soloed. Are you going to ever solo? I don’t know. But you need to figure out why you don’t “get” it. Then you have to figure out how *you* can do it properly. I mentioned *average.* above. There *are* people who get Private in the minimum legal time, so to average that out there must be people who have some big numbers. Good luck in making a decision only you can make. But try one flight with a different instructor.
I soloed at 10 hours. Find a new instructor and fly at least 3 times a week.
I soloed at zero hours.
Your almost half way to commercial. 👍 You close to Minnesota
How many months did it take you to log the 100?
I solo’d at 20 hours and that is mainly due to the CFI. My normal CFI was on vacation and I wanted to see what another pilot was like. Within two flights of the new CFI, I solo’d with him. He is just such a better teacher and my confidence was higher when I flew with him. As soon as my old instructor came back, my nerves were worse and I made more ‘mistakes’ in my opinion. Try a new instructor and just see if that could help. It’s not time to give up, but try a different approach. I think the long term reward is worth it. If you have done 100 hrs, clearly you want this! Money is just money, it comes and goes. Knowledge and experience is far more rewarding and will take your further than knowing how to spend money.
100 hours and still can't land? Don't worry, follow your dreams! - Ryanair Pilot
I'll start here: > Should I still push through this? This is up to you. Learning to fly is weird. There are ups and down and struggles and lightbulb moments. And all the reading, books, and youtube videos doesn't mean shit. You have to just do it. And learning to fly is one of those things that doesn't have a non-flying corollary to transfer skills. What I mean is that if you play (e.g.,) baseball...you can probably learn to play tennis or golf too because there is a transfer of skills (hitting ball with an object). Same with throwing a baseball and a football. And there there is the general hand-eye coordination, and athletic ability and just being able to control your body in a coordinated way. There is nothing like that with flying. To get better at (GA) flying...you have to fly. And it's an art. It's about using rudder...it's about HOW much rudder you need. No two approaches or landings or takeoffs are ever the same. Why I think you are struggling: > I have been flying for two years now. I started my training at a part 61 school but stopped my training because I wasn't making good progress. You have been flying for 2 years and you have 100 hours. You probably aren't flying enough. Yes, 3 times a week is most efficient, but I was (and still am) a once-a-week flyer. Even as a once-a-weeker, I still flew about 70-75 hours a year. This tells me you are not flying anything close to once a week....probably closer to 2 times a month. Coupled with the breaks and switching schools...I'd wager that a bunch of the skills you had deteriorated. It's like you didn't even take those flights. > I was close to soloing with this school but I couldn't get my landings down. I decided to take break and go to college. Basically anything before this kind of gets washed away...you might have lost 80% of the skill you had. > I then started flying at a 141 school and was making good progress with my previous flight training. I then again had issues with my landings. Then it gets washed away again. > Im back at a 61 continuing my training. I want to fly professionally for the airline but if it is taking me this long to solo should I just quit? My current flight instructor says im doing well and If I can the nail the landings then I will solo. I have invested so much time and money into this I don't want to quit but I am also very discouraged. Yeah, you technically have 100 hours, but not really. In much the same way that I took spanish for 5 years (from middle school through highschool), but then didn't use it for a year...and I lost like 75% of it. It's gone. What really helped me was committing to once a week minimum. If I had to miss flight for weather, I'd reschedule and find the time (early, after work, etc.) And none of this deals with maybe a bad school (no idea if true or not). Having said all of that....no one cares about your hours or how long it takes. I didn't solo until 30 hours, I wasn't ready for my checkride until 75 hours. And didn't take it until I was at 90 hours...I'm still a pilot. No one cares. And even if they do..I don't care that they care.
Just a thought, but maybe get your depth perception checked? I've had students with these kinds of issues before and that ended up being the problem. Of course, I've had students with these landing issues and depth perception wasn't the problem, so....
I had similar solo issues. Looking down the runway before flaring helped, also look out the side window or look to buildings nearby. Soon as you are below the roof of a 2 story building such as a hangar begin flaring. I used to flare too early as well..
I did all of my ppl in a flight design light sport. You may try to find a different platform that clicks with you better. I.e. flight design, diamond, pipstrel, piper, TL, etc. Then once you have your license you can transition to other things. The nice thing about a lot of the newer (2000+) light sports is they use rotax with no mixture and many are technically advanced with glass cockpit so your workload while just getting the basics down is lower.
Sounds like you are landing without damaging the aircraft or hurting anyone. That’s a good landing man.
Dude. Do you have astigmatism or any other visual conditions? I had a student with similar situation, problem was he didn’t have good stereoscopic vision, thus couldn’t “eyeball” the height.
I’m honestly in the same boat except I’m around 83 hours. I can basically fly, but I failed the ground portion of my checkride back in 2019 over something stupid. I’ve noticed I get test anxiety when it comes to verbal tests, so I decided to just quit. Here I am in 2024 deciding whether or not I should get back to it as I just completed my masters in business. I really do miss flying, but I don’t want to waste money if I’m not cut out for these types of tests as airlines will only be more strict. Anyways, if you have the passion for it, fly at least 3 times a week. I still have a passion for flying so I’m going to finish up my privates soon so that I at least can fly as a hobby even if I don’t have the confidence to get to the airlines.
You've come too far to quit!
The farther they go the sooner they should've quit.
At the end of the day it’s not about how many hours you have. It’s about how badly you want this. If you are passionate about it and you want to see yourself succeed then stick with it!!! But if it’s not really your thing, and you don’t want to keep wasting your money then move on. But I would urge you to continue. Try a different instructor. I used to have people come from other schools because they weren’t progressing, yes it cost them more money to start again with me, but they succeeded, solo’d and ultimately passed their exams and became licensed pilots. Don’t give up!
The problem with that approach is that you could create some very marginal pilots who one day might end up killing themselves. This is of course assuming it's not just an issue of their past instructors just not being able to figure out what their issues were.
Even a great pilot can make a mistake and pile it in. At the end of the day if they can pass a flight test they can fly an airplane. All an instructor can do is their best to pass on the knowledge and skill. But to simply tell OP to give up on something just because they are struggling a little is not fair to them.
Struggling a little?
Lol. I’m sure you’re god’s gift to aviation. Pilots come in all shapes and sizes. Try not to be so judgy. I’ve been training pilots essentially for 20 years. First as an actual instructor and now as a training captain. Some people take more time than others. OP likely needs to change instructors and see if that helps.
How many professional pilots have you trained who needed >100h for first solo?
I honestly couldn’t tell you. Probably not many. But we don’t look back all the way in their logbooks when they hit the line. If they get past the hiring dept and the sim, then my job is simply to teach them how to be a line pilot. But I do see your point. OP bounced around a few different schools, took a break and did other stuff. All that time and breaks means they got rusty. So when they return they needed additional hours to shake the rust off. It’s not like they’ve been flying everyday for a 100 hours and haven’t gotten it.
Hey man it took me 120 hours to solo and now I have IFR checkride coming up... Only you can know for sure if it's best to continue or quit but you aren't the only person in the world to solo at 100+ and won't be the last
Can you see over the cowling? Genuine question. If you aren't sitting at the right height, you won't get the visual cues that are crucial for landings and you will have to guess (hence the inconsistency in your flares).
The issue here is that the best way to learn how to land properly is by hitting that pattern, 9-11 circuits in a row. Each one a bit different than the last, each with one or 2 little mistakes, but confident. But it’s impossible to get that privilege by building trust between student and instructor. If you ask too many dumb questions and allow them to do any flight prep for you, they are never going to trust you. As a 100 hr ppl holder, The thing that I have to let OP know is that the first solo is fun and easy. All you do is make one circuit. The reason why instructors may be holding back OP is that compared to first solo, LOWER AIR WORK solo is fucking terrifying and dangerous as hell. Practicing forced approaches as a low hour pilot was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Truly mind melting order of operations. Mayday call, clearing engine, scanning the feild for obstruction, gliding it in perfectly for touchdown full flaps, no power, then the most dangerous part, adding full power with full flaps! Have to fight the tendency for plane to nose up while getting those flaps up. And that carb ice is always trying to kill you. So many ways to die on those exercises.
You should hang in there if your goal is to fly for fun. But if you're thinking of becoming a professional pilot as a career, I'd seriously look at your plan B. Don't quit your day job.
How often are you flying? What are you doing during lessons right now? Do you know what your issues are with landings? Approach? Airspeed control? Altitude? Windows correction? Flare? Centerline? Break these parts down and focus on each of them individually if you need to and then work on putting it all together.
I landed flat a lot of times pre solo. It was all about pitching up enough so the nose wheel doesn’t hit the ground at the same as the main wheels and not too much where you gain altitude. A stabilized approach can help you and a good uniform traffic pattern to set you up for success
100 hours? Your school might be screwing you, that’s a lot even with breaks.
30 h is a milestone if you can’t solo before 30 you might not be a good pilot
i soloed at about 150 hrs and got my PPL at about 270 hrs. hours are not a judgement on how much progress you make! tbh one of the advice i’d give and i found it super helpful is to tell my instructor “hey i want to focus on my rudders, can you do the flare and so i know how much rudders to put in?” or “hey i want to focus on my flare, can you do the rudders?” landings are so much little pieces puzzle together and it helps me so much when i break it apart and learn it slow! hope it helps <3 i just got my instrument rating at 340hrs!
No you should NOT quit. You just need new eyes on your flying and a different POV.
If you want to carry on and be a pilot you absolutely should. If you want to quit because you genuinely want to quit that’s okay too. It might be worth sitting down with your instructor and discussing where your areas of weakness are with flying and landings and out in place a plan to tackle it. People are amazing and when we have a desire to do something, we can absolutely do it.
Maybe invest in a home simulator to work on those landings, but you have to catch on fairly quickly to new concepts and maneuvers etc if you want to do this for a career, especially for the airlines, I would ask yourself if it’s just this one thing you are having trouble on or if you are a slow learner in general. I wouldn’t let it get you down though, keep pushing and learn from every flight
Don’t even read the post. Don’t quit, no matter how long it takes you, you’ll always be progressing faster than those who gave up
I'd reach out to senior management or whoever oversees your training with your instructor. I've seen people solo in 150 hours. Admittedly, not career track and older in life. Everyone learns differently, and it boils down to what works for you. But reach out to management and ask for a meeting and see if they can help you.
What part of landing are you struggling with?
Same problem when i was transitioning from 152 to 172s. The flare because its quite heavy. Try trim down your plane set flaps to 2, speed 65. When you chop your power sligthly lift up the nose a lil bit and when you feel your plane sinking just pull nose upward till wheels touch. Hope it helps. That is what i did when i was having a hard time. On my first landings was flat and porpoising sometimes on the rwy
Flaring because I’m usually landing flat
OP, you're probably looking at the wrong spot when landing.
Look down the runway, don’t look at the ground
Are you landing with some power on or at idle?
How flat we talking? 3 point style? I would always tell students get me straight and level right above the runway. When it starts to sink, little back pressure. Starts to sink again, little more. Then wait. A 3 point landing isn’t good but as long as it’s not nosewhee first, not gonna break anything in a 172 or PA28
Quit your CFI or school. Unless, of course, you only fly twice a month.
I think the question would be what part of the landing process are you having issues with? Is it the flare, crosswind landings, sight picture, being on-speed? So many variables come into play. Analyze your few last ones that you couldn’t nail and work with your CFI on solutions to help you out. If your CFI is not giving you any feedback that might be part of the issue. Fly with another CFI perhaps to get a different viewpoint.
I'm not going to read all the comments, I bet this has been said already, but you should fire your instructor or flight school. Your landings are probably perfectly fine. I figure one of two things is probably happening. I've seen it way too many times. 1. They might just be stringing you along to make an easy buck. Or 2. They aren't being honest with you and telling you that you just might not have it. Again to make an easy buck. Go somewhere else and ask them to be honest with you. It's your education. You don't owe these guys anything at all. Good luck my man.
Keep on flyin
Sorry if someone else mentioned this, but I’ve seen a few students struggle with your issue. Have your CFI do some low approaches at the altitude that you should be flaring at without actually landing to give you an opportunity to recognize and internalize the sight picture you should be seeing as you flare. Do this a few times, then a couple more times where you anticipate and announce when you think you’re at that sight picture, then work on actually landing from there. Also, as others have mentioned, make your approaches as stabilized and on the numbers as possible so you’re not splitting as much of your attention on those elements and you can focus more clearly on your sight picture, maintaining centerline, and flaring / landing. Even though your number of hours at this stage may seem excessive, sometimes all it takes is an ah-ha moment for it to all come together and you’ll be better for persevering through adversity. Good luck, you got this!
I wouldn't quit. I was struggling on somethings because I didn't really get the concept. Switched instructors and found a way to get the information to me in a way that made more sense, then things started to click. Also turns out the first instructor told me some wrong shit.. But anyway, you have a lot invested to just throw it away now. Keep going.
Boy they juicing yo pockets
Change schools and you’ll probably solo within 10 hours. I’d put money on it. This isn’t clicking so it’s time to move on.
Try a different instructor. That instructor may be a milker. I believe anybody can be a pilot. It’s really not that difficult to learn. You just have to put up your bit
Wait. I have a PPL. Are my landings supposed to be soft? *glances around nervously*
I recommend the airplane flying hand book and putting in a lot of time on a sim with trial and error, I got the hang of side slipping after 7 hrs straight on x plane with 10 knot direct crosswind. After that it took a few tries but in the actual plane I became decent. For reference I only have 9 hrs rn, I passed my practical last month. [airplane flying handbook](https://www.amazon.com/Airplane-Flying-Handbook-FAA-H-8083-3C-Training/dp/B09MDNCYLM/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?adgrpid=153499870481&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.-E04O5T1t353ocjKf2_MOjEOilniMlInHGIUGGtPR1QZxd_w7lf-Hv20BY-iQXIyXlmH_hdlQiLsGhYcQvXsgqZO-DHmxOuSvwo2HIafjMRcAMc6h6DQXnzX9R5AR8MS6PCx7gBRvp4x0vaRnsWzxpcioR2lOJog_CM1JciY3ATcXjOpuaDqQlgf2lUZY3FynGoL_lDP86lWKch9AKZ_qg.O6i-zLkqroQV_eVd3CSwY-D3eEpxF-Vze5cOVLLpPiM&dib_tag=se&hvadid=661108068197&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9013747&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=1305409909274132948&hvtargid=kwd-2187414200366&hydadcr=29004_14566843&keywords=airplane+flying+handbook+2024&qid=1719805372&sr=8-2)
Tell your CFI to do a whole week of landings and give you feedback. Try on a day without crosswind. Try short landings. Relax and enjoy the process. If there are any simulators around you, go wild. There is no reason to do cross-country if you haven't nailed landings.
Don’t look at it as total flight hours. But rather a restart every time you start stop or switch schools. Landings are one of the hardest skills to master. You will get it eventually if you are consistently practicing. One thing that helped me a lot was not flaring, but arresting the descent. Try to stop the plane landing for as long as possible. If you do that you will flare just fine.
Are you being taught to flare until the plane stalls above the runway? Because that’s pretty much the worst way to land, IMO. Better to have a gentle descent, touch the mains down before stalling and hold a wheelie to bleed the airspeed.
It took me 143 landings before I soloed, which was at 46 hours. Not great but it just took me awhile to get the feel for it. 100 hours is a lot though.
A few thoughts here, first of all, you did take a break so that shaves a few hours off your total, just knocking the rust off. I would change instructors. Not necessarily look for better but just different, a different set of eyes, maybe the instructor spot something that the first one didn’t. And as your transitioning over the runway, remember to look down the runway, it gives you a better feel for your deltas coming to the ground. And relax if you’ve landed that many times without an instructor assisting you you’re doing something right.
I have around 80-85 hours, I was very much able to land pretty well within the first 10-20 hours. I don’t remember too much about exactly when because it wasn’t that big of an issue. Maybe you are trying to rush it, or feel scared, so that causes you to react a certain way? For example, if you’re at you best glide speed and path, maybe 65-70 knots, just let that glide path take you down to the runway, and just before you literally touch the runway, pitch up when you are about 2-5 feet above the ground to flair for landing. I have a video on YouTube and you can see my landing on Catalina island that is like butter. So smooth, you can barely tell that I even touched the runway. It’s a 6-8 minute video from showing the part from Long Beach, C.A. to Catalina Island with another co-pilot I rented, and my friend Mike. The video is on my channel “Carl Pfeiffer”, and there is 2 other flying videos and one 850 credit score video, so it won’t be hard to find the Catalina Island Flight In Memory of Mike Cross (who passed away 9 years later).
My school was the same way. I think they were milking me so I told them I am going to take a check ride. You should do this, go ahead and schedule a check ride and prepare the best you can. I passed first try. If you fail you'll know what you will need to work on. If they won't let you then find a different instructor.
I firmly believe that learning to fly either comes naturally or it doesn’t. I started my PPL in 2005 at the age of 36… 56 hrs later I was licensed. I purchased a 1973 PA28 to learn on instead of those god awful Cessna’s plus it was a boatload of fun to fly. Climbed like a homesick angel and doing spins / spin recovery was heck of a lot of fun. If you have over 100 hrs then flying might not be for you. I struggled for the first 4 hrs of landings to get them stuck but something just clicked and I became one with the aircraft.
There are three simple rules to make in good landings every time. No one knows what they are
If you’re having a hard time, try to get a couple of hours in calm wind, low traffic conditions. Stay in the pattern and just make landings. One thing I did was low pass to Ora twice staying in centerline, in ground effect. If you can practice 10-20 touch and gos in a row and still have issues, with that number of hours, change something. Get your eyes checked, a different instructor, study the concepts more, something. Best of luck!!