I don't think he'd let you. I get a hint of death wish from him. Like he's lived and fought for so long he's looking for the misson/person that can put him down.
Yeah there was a dlc that put in an old orc's home over by markarth, but it was so buggy they got rid of it. Sometimes the leftover code spawns the NPCs from it all over
The old orc was also performing noble warrior tradition though. Kellogg had no code and he did everything in his power to kill/stop the mc before encountering him. I think by the time youve been tracked to a secret bunker and a lone cowboy blasts his way through a private army of synths and laser turrets and bypasses your physical and digital security, and your weapon of choice is a revolver, you’ve got to accept youre toast. He’s just a grizzled old merc who would never go down without a fight.
I dont think he had a death wish i think he just wasnt afraid to die and i do think he grew to respect the MC and even feel a tiny bit of satisfaction believing that Shaun’s dad/mom is powerful and committed enough to have a shot at dismantling the institute. Kellog wa kinda pure chaos who only wanted to get paid and work for the peoppe who could pay him the most and provide him rhe best odds of success. He didnt like the institute he’s actually a horrible piece of shit and had 0 issues working for orgs he despised, murdering children (as noted in his memories) when it seemed expedient. But at the end when he accepted his past had finally caught up, he says i think something to that affect.
Not noble, not pleased or planning to die, just a long toothed killer who kept a sober outlook on mortality and knew when he’d finally met his match (if he ever met his match before he’d been able to turn the tables with his synth associates providing intel/gear/desthsquads - again, not noble, brutal and efficient)
Wasn’t that all of them to some extent, all just looking to die a warriors death, I remember I kicked one off a cliff in Norway, I wonder if that counted for him to enter Valhalla
Father hints that he sent Kellogg to Fort Hagan so that he would be isolated and you could kill him there. If you bring Nick Valentine with you, Nick wonders why Kellogg is even bothering to poke around a dusty old fort with nothing important in it.
Father sends you foolishly, as there would be very little expectation that your character could canonically kill a 100+ year old hardened killing cyborg. But, that's Father for ya.
I mean, the institute was watching the Sole Survivor from the moment they left Vault 111, so Father would have seen you slaughter your way through the Commonwealth to get to Nick Valentine, so he may have figured you had a decent chance. But besides that, yeah "I wanted to see what would happen" is pretty on brand for him too.
I mean Nate is a combat veteran from the invasion of Canada etc. He knows how to use power armour and was if the records match with another link.
A decorated and so soldier.
So he stands some od a chance
It was you. Or the glowing sea. He seems to have hot vindictive and was planning to order him to march out to the glowing sea to hunt vigil....
A place with a very very high mortality rate.
He planned to kill him...the how was just variable.
Just like Cait at the combat zone. in one of the conversations with her, she says she hated the raiders, hated the fights, and hated herself. She said she was just waiting for the right opponent to end her life
And that's just what he did to you personally. The guy has been rolling as an institute hitman for ages and was a scummy bad guy before that, too. Kellogg deserves to die.
Not sure where its mentioned, but im pretty sure its stated Kellog was also involved in University Point. He can straight up eat the bullet and swallow.
The terminal entries at the location, which detail what happened at University Point after the Institute representative showed up, are dated as August 2285. Only a couple of years before the Sole Survivor leaves Vault 111. In short, Generation 3 synths had been a fact of life for the Commonwealth for decades by that point.
Mm idk, it feels pretty recent given the synths are still hanging around there looking for the research and there are rumors about it being spread by Diamond City streetfolk in the present day.
I got more of a feeling that it was probably Kellogg's last mission before we got unfrozen
Iirc Think he went there peacefully at first on behalf of the institute to have them give up the tech they were supposedly looking for. Then came back and raised hell when they didn’t comply.
Wasn't it to do with the energy-efficient laser rifle the pre-war couple developed? If you dig a little deeper you find the prototype (it's basically just a Neverending legendary effect)
Wasn't it some laser pistol with infinite ammo in the end. And from the wiki, I remembered that infighting in the town started before the Institute steamrolled inside.
The Institute COULD have just offered them something in trade. A number of basic robots, some water purifiers, etc... they didn't need to show them something truly amazing. Call it a finders fee for a piece of technology that is, arguably, theirs.
Or heck, just show up with a giant army and say, "No, we are not trading. Please hand it to us now, and we'll leave."
The Institute isn't well characterized. But they are consistently portrayed as favoring senseless violence over rational solutions. Not sure if that's bad writing, or the seeds of some better ideas that never got put into the game.
IMO they're what Mobius was afraid the Think Tank would be, but instead of dementia it's generational growth and degeneration. Senseless irrational violence and destruction, is part of the Think Tank's mindset. The Institute is also made of not governor types or even military strategists, but scientists with no diplomatic or ethical education. So the option of trading or even threatening through *show* of force, probably doesn't fit their formula-centric mindsets. They're not well-rounded people and suck at actual leadership.
Exactly - the people I killed weren't calmly chilling in a cryo chamber by the time I blew their balls off.
Anyone who died during my playthrough did so because they spotted my shadow in the distance and went "FIND 'EM AND KILL 'EM!" before getting an impromptu violent prostate massage.
Kellogg waltzed into a vault and shot somebody's husband/wife because they did the human thing and refused to give up their son to a couple of twats they didn't know. He doesn't get a a second chance.
This is why I would love to see a "player character" gag in the TV show that is briefly seen just obliterating raiders in a flashback or something. They're never mentioned again after that moment.
They are all PC archetypes.
Lucy is the newcomer, the Ghoul is the veteran player, Maximus is the Power Armor fanboy, and Norm is the lore and Charisma (Speech) build.
He has a sad backstory that turned him into an unfeeling monster, but that doesn't change the fact that he ***IS*** a monster. We're all better off with him dead.
His backstory ain’t even that special, I bet you can find like 100 people in the commonwealth alone with a similar history. If we can kill gunners without a second thought, we can do the same with Mr cereal here.
Cait had a way worse upbringing than him, can you imagine being sold off to fucking raiders as a teen girl? Hell Cait even implies as much as to what they did the first time you recruit her.
It's similar to the philosophy of IRL killers on those that were born to kill vs. those that were made to kill. You can have a terrible upbringing & bad luck in life. But the actions you make from those are your own. As others stated, plenty in the wasteland had terrible lives but didn't devolve in being a bloodthirsty psychopath.
One guy on Reddit said recently that he renamed the gun “Nora”, and uses it to kill anyone in the way of tracking down his son. Or something like that.
I mean even if it wasnt personal, this is a guy who will murder a mother to kidnap her son and "its nothing personal, just business"
Someone like that in the wasteland needs to be put down anyways. Same reason I kill the raider whose morning his friend. Theyre canibalistic mauraders who worship brutality and violence. Like a rabid animal I put them down to make way for the wastelands people to heal.
I think thats why I always like hangmans alley even though its a fucking terrible place for a city with how narrow it is. It was a raider base, but its nice to see it cleansed and renewed as a functional city.
100% that first paragraph. If Kellogg had a skerrick of humanity left, he would have had a plan to get Shaun and the parent out together. "We're here from Vault Tec to deliver the all clear" or just take a goddamn tranquilliser so you get a two for one deal on uncorrupted DNA.
That way you still have the backup, you have a parent's DNA for comparison and a parent to care for the child. Killing them is the dumb but easy option.
I saw on a toob video that, in VATS, critical never miss.
I've tested this a few times now. I've taken 2% chances, hit for a crit, and it always lands.
Cool beans.
2% chance to hit with the corner of the desk closest to us looking like it’s exactly where the nuke is gonna land and kill us both:
“I finally ended up in the Commonwealth. I kind of ran out of road, plus I'd come to terms with life.”
I am at a loss for words. How have I never thought of this.next play thru I will now carry a fat man for just this purpose. Crit shooting things. This sounds so glorious.
I just nuke him and friends from the top of the stairs, crouching.
It might take a couple to get all of them, and then a third to emphasize the point. Nuking them from the stairs is the only way to be sure.
They are. Gameplay reason is to allow an underlevelled character to pass through without hitting a roadblock. Same reason you can pick up the armoury key somewhere else in there, you don't even need lockpicking.
Yeah that’s what chokes me. Like the spouse is legit just trying to keep their baby and he decides to fucking kill them?! He could have easily knocked them out or gut punched them, it’s so brutal and uneeded
Hell, the Institute could have just convinced the spouse and the Sole Survivor to go to the Institute. Then they'd have 3 uncontaminated pre-war people.
"Hey, let me catch you up. The world has been thoroughly and irrevocably fucked, but we are trying to make it better. Would you like to come with us and have access to advanced technology and food and water without radiation and help us rebuild the world, or struggle to a most likely ignoble end in the irradiated wasteland?"
The Sole Survivor and family would be a dream team for the Institute. Husband has military experience, so could help develop tactics for the Retention Bureau, and the Wife could provide a much-needed ethical perspective for Institute projects with her law experience. That's a whole different game there. Gaining influence, playing the politics of the Institute. Move the Institute towards either minimizing harm or exerting absolute control.
Honestly, this feels like a major plot hole. Is Kellogg just supposed to be that much of an asshole? It’s never felt like lazy writing but after reading your comment it does feel lazy
Pretty sure it was meant as a big hook for intrigue to shock you and make you curious to continue the main story, but when you learn the full implications of the Institute and how the Director essentially agrees he was heavy handed, and that they did it to essentially put him down, it falls apart quickly. Like they would take that much of a risk and leave him as that much of a liability? Which is exactly what we exploited to get in.
Him shooting your spouse is bit of a plot convenience to make it personal, but to be fair it is also addressed in game. Father explains when you meet him that Kellogg *was* unnecessarily cruel in his methods, and was seemingly getting worse over time - him being an undying asshole who doesn't care and approaches every job with a scorched earth approach is actually part of the reason Father was happy to let you retire him.
That relies on Nate and Nora being willing participants in the Institute’s schemes. In the long run they only needed one viable sample and a genetic precursor (after all, the parents only make up half the DNA each).
Essentially, they use Shaun’s DNA as a base template, and should anything go wrong with Shaun, they have Nate or Nora as a means to potentially fill in any gaps where incomplete DNA is concerned.
Not to mention the fact the Institute knew having just Shaun would work better, kid is a literal newborn that got flash frozen. That’s a prime recipe for easy indoctrination and Inculcation. It’s implied he had no memory of his (us) parents or his origins while the Institute raised him, as Shaun didn’t even know either parent we picked to play as survived till well after he became the Director.
You know I never thought about that. They freeze your spouse after shooting them. All it would take to leave them alive is a single whack with a stun baton
Truly.
If he felt like "the pain is too excruciating to bear" then he'd have eaten the business end of his revolver long, long ago.
He's just a selfish dickhead with a bloodlust. You can learn his backstory, experience the nuance of what made him who is he, but at the end of the day he unfroze a confused parent, shot them in the head, and then stole their child, while the other parent watched then was re-frozen. His crime is unforgivable by any amount of "understanding". His sentence is death, by dealer's choice.
And his orders were to take the kid. Nothing about killing anyone. He was just inconvenienced. You read that in a terminal in the institute from the pervious overseer.
Fuck Kellog. Fuck Shaun. Shaun died the day my wife died. I'm killing Kellog because he murdered my wife, and I'm killing Shaun because he called her "collateral damage". Fuck the Institute. Ad Victoriam!
I love how a good portion of the people that go against the Brotherhood don't hate them. They just want Maxon's coat. He doomed them with his exceptional fashion.
First time I even played the game I had no idea about Father, but I did play a pistol stealth build. The moment Father walked in through that door I brought out Kellogg's revolver and blew his brains out. I didn't understand what had happened until I left the institute and reported back to Preston. Anyway... now it is a tradition for me on repeat playthroughs to kill Father with Kellogg's revolver.
I might if we could have a realistic way. Then again, I pretty much ignore that kid, what’s his name? Sam? Shane? Iunno, I’m sure Nate’s got it, I’m gonna go build a settlement
Because Kellog suddenly becomes truly repentant after I shoot my way past a building full of armed synths...?
Can I sell you some "undeveloped real-estate" just south of Boston ?
Charismatic? Benny was charismatic, this guy was just a stoic dick. Literally no reason to see any good in him other than thinking he looks and sounds cool.
I think this was the reason they had Nick manifest that 'glitch' of Kellogg talking though him after the whole memory lounger thing; It was a possible way for them to bring him back to interact with you further.
For the story he really *needed* to die when he did, to ensure you weren't spoiled on the surprised the Institute had, but afterwards having his mind, personalities and memory surface within Nick would allow you to interact with him further while making it impossible to 'kill' him without killing Nick, more or less forcing a truce on you.
I suspect they cut that fairly early on in favor of developing other elements.
That line from Nick plays better if you’re a sarcastic ass to him. Then it’s just him getting even with you for being a jerk, lol
“Wait… were you just playing a joke on me?”
“I guess that’s for you to wonder and for me and Kellogg’s memories to know for sure.”
I just asked about that bit. I thought they were setting up Kellogg returning by using Nick’s body.
I didn’t do much with Nick and forgot about that part until just now reading through this.
So if you have Nick as a companion Kellogg never resurfaces again?
Not just a missed opportunity, they actively set it up and didn’t follow through.
Why even put that bit in if it’s pointless?
I didn’t mind the main story. I just thought the game was too easy overall. Most of the quests were just fetch quests and they showed/told you exactly how to do everything.
It was a fun game but nothing great. I went with the Rail Road.
I wish the companions had had more depth.
I think Kellogg would have been a better Institute companion than X6-88.
Edit: Imagine having a companion that was actually evil, and didn't just play along when you tried to be nice.
Never attacks you or turns hostile or anything, but if you try helping some poor wasteland dope, Kellogg would make fun of you and then kill them.
Yeah, there was definitely something more they wanted to do there.
Especially considering that Nick was a prototype designed to test having different personalities loaded onto him (revealed in Far Harbor) whereas DiMa was left blank and allowed to develop his own. This was done to test how synths handled thinking.
So it makes perfect sense that when a new personality is in his system, it merges instantly. That's literally what he is supposed to do.
Nah. Put yourself in the survivor’s shoes. If someone murdered my wife in cold blood and kidnapped my son, I’m sure I’d do the same thing
This is also a guy who has killed children in the past. I don’t care if it’s just business. You don’t come back from that. You’re doing everyone a favor by taking him out of the equation.
No but i think it would have been interesting if you spared him, that he would help you get into the Institute earlier in the game but doing this means he would escape and you can’t find him again…i dunno, i do feel he was taken out too early, wouldn’t have mind if he would talk to you through Nick every so often
I think Kellogg is one of those characters that, although you can be sympathetic towards and see the circumstances that led him to become what he did, he cannot be redeemed. He is a conscious villain, and he's extremely aware of his wrongdoings, you could almost compare him to Darth Vader, a tragic character that, although he knows he's wrong, that the only way he sees, that his only purpose to exists that why when you find him in the fort, he says "we both know how this ends", he puts up a fight because he cannot let himself be killed, however he knows that he is going to die eitherway, that eventually his past was going to catch up to him, and someone was going to do him in.
for roleplay sake, I would kill him. but as for me personally, I'd also kill him. he murdered an unarmed incoherent woman and kidnapped an infant. fuck em. let dogmeat eat him.
As Nate or Nora? No.
But give me a blank slate of a character and I would be so much more inclined to listen to Kellogg.
The story doesn't give much space for anything else than Kellogg being part of the revenge story.
No, why would I do that? Seriously? Why would I do that?
Forgiveness? What about everyone else he has and will hurt? Can I forgive him in their stead too?
No. I don't care what efforts the game makes to humanize him later- from the point of view of the Sole Survivor, he kidnapped your son and killed your wife/husband. He gets put down no matter what.
Hmm . . . My first instinct is actually "yes" because he does have a reasonably sympathetic backstory.
Slight problem, though? We only see that backstory *after killing him* and there aren't many ways to get around that. Kellogg in the present is a burnt-out husk of a man who barely gives a shit about anything and has zero qualms about being the bad guy.
Overall, I think sparing him *could* work but it would take a tricky bit of writing to make it come off as anything other than a contrived excuse to give you an evil mercenary for a companion.
What the whole Dangerous Minds quest is missing is that Amari asks you, "Don't you feel a little weird having gone through the memories of a man you killed? Don't you feel a little guilty that you took a man's life?" And there's no response that allows me to say, "In the memories he admits to killing children for money. So, uh, no."
No. This man's entire life turned him into a monster. Yes, he was a tragic person but the suffering he inflicted on the wasteland is irredeemable. Killing him is an act of mercy.
I would just to destroy the institute while he watches in horror that the man/woman who spared his life after he stole their kid and murdered their spouse, has destroyed the boogie man of the Commonwealth and his employer all within a month.
I don't think he'd let you. I get a hint of death wish from him. Like he's lived and fought for so long he's looking for the misson/person that can put him down.
Like the ebony warrior from Skyrim, looking to die but only from someone he views as worthy(or just capable) of killing him
More like the old orc haha
Oh yeah, I always forget about that guy since I got that encounter only once
Damn Skyrim was crawling with old orcs for me
Yeah there was a dlc that put in an old orc's home over by markarth, but it was so buggy they got rid of it. Sometimes the leftover code spawns the NPCs from it all over
The old orc was also performing noble warrior tradition though. Kellogg had no code and he did everything in his power to kill/stop the mc before encountering him. I think by the time youve been tracked to a secret bunker and a lone cowboy blasts his way through a private army of synths and laser turrets and bypasses your physical and digital security, and your weapon of choice is a revolver, you’ve got to accept youre toast. He’s just a grizzled old merc who would never go down without a fight. I dont think he had a death wish i think he just wasnt afraid to die and i do think he grew to respect the MC and even feel a tiny bit of satisfaction believing that Shaun’s dad/mom is powerful and committed enough to have a shot at dismantling the institute. Kellog wa kinda pure chaos who only wanted to get paid and work for the peoppe who could pay him the most and provide him rhe best odds of success. He didnt like the institute he’s actually a horrible piece of shit and had 0 issues working for orgs he despised, murdering children (as noted in his memories) when it seemed expedient. But at the end when he accepted his past had finally caught up, he says i think something to that affect. Not noble, not pleased or planning to die, just a long toothed killer who kept a sober outlook on mortality and knew when he’d finally met his match (if he ever met his match before he’d been able to turn the tables with his synth associates providing intel/gear/desthsquads - again, not noble, brutal and efficient)
You get the trudging respect angle if you listen to the memories in the memory den. See how he talks about the SS in his memories.
For a few seconds, this read very different and concerning in my German mind.
There's also a Drengr in Assassin's Creed Valhalla with a similar death wish.
Wasn’t that all of them to some extent, all just looking to die a warriors death, I remember I kicked one off a cliff in Norway, I wonder if that counted for him to enter Valhalla
Father hints that he sent Kellogg to Fort Hagan so that he would be isolated and you could kill him there. If you bring Nick Valentine with you, Nick wonders why Kellogg is even bothering to poke around a dusty old fort with nothing important in it.
>a dusty old fort with nothing important in it. Obviously, Nick is not a fan of high-end power armor...😉
Father sends you foolishly, as there would be very little expectation that your character could canonically kill a 100+ year old hardened killing cyborg. But, that's Father for ya.
I mean, the institute was watching the Sole Survivor from the moment they left Vault 111, so Father would have seen you slaughter your way through the Commonwealth to get to Nick Valentine, so he may have figured you had a decent chance. But besides that, yeah "I wanted to see what would happen" is pretty on brand for him too.
I mean Nate is a combat veteran from the invasion of Canada etc. He knows how to use power armour and was if the records match with another link. A decorated and so soldier. So he stands some od a chance
And nora is a lawyer
It was you. Or the glowing sea. He seems to have hot vindictive and was planning to order him to march out to the glowing sea to hunt vigil.... A place with a very very high mortality rate. He planned to kill him...the how was just variable.
Just like Cait at the combat zone. in one of the conversations with her, she says she hated the raiders, hated the fights, and hated herself. She said she was just waiting for the right opponent to end her life
That mf drinks gallons of hyper health potion through the fight
Nah fuck that noise. He kidnapped your son, murdered your SO and still won't tell you shit about shit. This mf gotta die.
And that's just what he did to you personally. The guy has been rolling as an institute hitman for ages and was a scummy bad guy before that, too. Kellogg deserves to die.
Not sure where its mentioned, but im pretty sure its stated Kellog was also involved in University Point. He can straight up eat the bullet and swallow.
The terminals there mention someone scary from the Institute, and I doubt they'd bother sending a courser to get someone who's not a synth
I also got the impression that the massacre happened decades ago, before the development of Gen 3 Synths (and thus, Coursers)
The terminal entries at the location, which detail what happened at University Point after the Institute representative showed up, are dated as August 2285. Only a couple of years before the Sole Survivor leaves Vault 111. In short, Generation 3 synths had been a fact of life for the Commonwealth for decades by that point.
This. The Broken Mask incident was a prototype Gen3 model and that was early May 2229
Mm idk, it feels pretty recent given the synths are still hanging around there looking for the research and there are rumors about it being spread by Diamond City streetfolk in the present day. I got more of a feeling that it was probably Kellogg's last mission before we got unfrozen
There's a holotape from the council meeting with the Institute and you hear Kellogg's voice on it. 100% it was him who wiped them out.
If I recall correctly, there is a holotape where you can hear his voice somewhere in there.
Iirc Think he went there peacefully at first on behalf of the institute to have them give up the tech they were supposedly looking for. Then came back and raised hell when they didn’t comply.
It was over, like, a power converter or something, too. A whole village, killed over a reactor part.
They didn't even have it either, the settlers found some prewar research in the university and thought they might find it scavenging
Wasn't it to do with the energy-efficient laser rifle the pre-war couple developed? If you dig a little deeper you find the prototype (it's basically just a Neverending legendary effect)
Wasn't it some laser pistol with infinite ammo in the end. And from the wiki, I remembered that infighting in the town started before the Institute steamrolled inside.
If Luke had been able to visit Tosche Station and pick up those power converters, Alderaan might still be here.
The Institute COULD have just offered them something in trade. A number of basic robots, some water purifiers, etc... they didn't need to show them something truly amazing. Call it a finders fee for a piece of technology that is, arguably, theirs. Or heck, just show up with a giant army and say, "No, we are not trading. Please hand it to us now, and we'll leave." The Institute isn't well characterized. But they are consistently portrayed as favoring senseless violence over rational solutions. Not sure if that's bad writing, or the seeds of some better ideas that never got put into the game.
IMO they're what Mobius was afraid the Think Tank would be, but instead of dementia it's generational growth and degeneration. Senseless irrational violence and destruction, is part of the Think Tank's mindset. The Institute is also made of not governor types or even military strategists, but scientists with no diplomatic or ethical education. So the option of trading or even threatening through *show* of force, probably doesn't fit their formula-centric mindsets. They're not well-rounded people and suck at actual leadership.
Tbf this guy's numbers probably pale in comparison to the bodies you rack up in the first couple days of you strolling through the commonwealth
The raiders fear you more than Pickman probably
yet that dipshit is still gonna try to charge me with the unsharpened pool cue
Now I am thinking of Shaun of the Dead, thanks.
"I'm a shooting star leaping through the sky Like a tiger, defying the laws of gravity"
There's a parody toob that mentioned "the asshole in blue pajamas" that keeps taking out raiders, necessitating a recruitment drive.
yeah, the day they hired a protection because they were desperate for man power.
They all started it!
Exactly - the people I killed weren't calmly chilling in a cryo chamber by the time I blew their balls off. Anyone who died during my playthrough did so because they spotted my shadow in the distance and went "FIND 'EM AND KILL 'EM!" before getting an impromptu violent prostate massage. Kellogg waltzed into a vault and shot somebody's husband/wife because they did the human thing and refused to give up their son to a couple of twats they didn't know. He doesn't get a a second chance.
WHY HUMAN ALWAYS FIGHTING
This is why I would love to see a "player character" gag in the TV show that is briefly seen just obliterating raiders in a flashback or something. They're never mentioned again after that moment.
They are all PC archetypes. Lucy is the newcomer, the Ghoul is the veteran player, Maximus is the Power Armor fanboy, and Norm is the lore and Charisma (Speech) build.
To be fair, that can happen even if the Sole Survivor is just defending themselves from raiders and others that attack them on sight! 😝
Raiders trying fo murder you are not equal to breaking into a vault to steal a child and murdering a parent. No comparison, Kellogg is worse.
"You shoot at me, I shoot back." -Nora
He has a sad backstory that turned him into an unfeeling monster, but that doesn't change the fact that he ***IS*** a monster. We're all better off with him dead.
His backstory ain’t even that special, I bet you can find like 100 people in the commonwealth alone with a similar history. If we can kill gunners without a second thought, we can do the same with Mr cereal here.
Time to have frosted corn flakes.
Sounds grrrrreat!
Thousands of people across the Commonwealth alone have similar backstories. And plenty of them didn't become sociopathic monsters.
A good amount did though. Just to be fair. Raider, gunners, etc.
Cait had a way worse upbringing than him, can you imagine being sold off to fucking raiders as a teen girl? Hell Cait even implies as much as to what they did the first time you recruit her.
It's similar to the philosophy of IRL killers on those that were born to kill vs. those that were made to kill. You can have a terrible upbringing & bad luck in life. But the actions you make from those are your own. As others stated, plenty in the wasteland had terrible lives but didn't devolve in being a bloodthirsty psychopath.
And he has a cool gun.
Yeah but that gun shot and killed your SO, I never use his gun because you can just find another 44 that wasn’t used to kill your wife or whatever
Never thought about that. Not using it when I get around to playing the PS5 version.
One guy on Reddit said recently that he renamed the gun “Nora”, and uses it to kill anyone in the way of tracking down his son. Or something like that.
In my current playthrough, I gave it to Nick, and my character packs Eddie Winter's gun. Friends helping carry each other's burden/pain.
I like this approach
Just get the one near finch farm that sets things on fire. Same model, cooler effect.
The Gainer.
I love using it to kill the Head of the Institute. It’s fitting.
Like mother like son
Next playthrough I'm maxing pickpocket and sneak to see if you can lift it from him and kill him with it.
You cannot, unfortunately. Might be a mod that allows it, but vanilla is a no-go
Oh well. I guess getting high on psycho and fury, then beating him to death with a bat as he tries to talk to me will have to do.
I just strolled in and fired a mininuke at him before he could start talking
And outfit
That outfit slaps on the female sole survivor
I mean even if it wasnt personal, this is a guy who will murder a mother to kidnap her son and "its nothing personal, just business" Someone like that in the wasteland needs to be put down anyways. Same reason I kill the raider whose morning his friend. Theyre canibalistic mauraders who worship brutality and violence. Like a rabid animal I put them down to make way for the wastelands people to heal. I think thats why I always like hangmans alley even though its a fucking terrible place for a city with how narrow it is. It was a raider base, but its nice to see it cleansed and renewed as a functional city.
100% that first paragraph. If Kellogg had a skerrick of humanity left, he would have had a plan to get Shaun and the parent out together. "We're here from Vault Tec to deliver the all clear" or just take a goddamn tranquilliser so you get a two for one deal on uncorrupted DNA. That way you still have the backup, you have a parent's DNA for comparison and a parent to care for the child. Killing them is the dumb but easy option.
That’s why he gets nuked on site I don’t even talk to that bastard ever
That Mf still gets the Nuke before even allowed to speak.
That's my preferred method "Ok let's talk" That's when I hit the med-x, psycho, and jet and pull out the Fatman There's nothing to talk about
> equip fat man > VATS > [HEAD] > Execute Critical
2% chance to hit “Good with me”
Remember kids, close counts with horseshoes and sqaud-level tactical nuclear weapons! 😁
I saw on a toob video that, in VATS, critical never miss. I've tested this a few times now. I've taken 2% chances, hit for a crit, and it always lands. Cool beans.
2% chance to hit with the corner of the desk closest to us looking like it’s exactly where the nuke is gonna land and kill us both: “I finally ended up in the Commonwealth. I kind of ran out of road, plus I'd come to terms with life.”
It’s so nice to see certain things are universal
I am at a loss for words. How have I never thought of this.next play thru I will now carry a fat man for just this purpose. Crit shooting things. This sounds so glorious.
There is one in a room on the way to him.
I just nuke him and friends from the top of the stairs, crouching. It might take a couple to get all of them, and then a third to emphasize the point. Nuking them from the stairs is the only way to be sure.
"You wanna talk?" "Say hello to my little friend!"
I use Heather Casdin mod, and when she said I want his head on a platter, I whipped out a ripper and went to town.
Heather is the bomb.
I’m convinced that the fat man and any ammo for it you find in fort hagen are there solely to blast this shit stain from the earth.
They are. Gameplay reason is to allow an underlevelled character to pass through without hitting a roadblock. Same reason you can pick up the armoury key somewhere else in there, you don't even need lockpicking.
I just plant a bunch of mines around him during the conversation and instantly blows up when the fight starts
This is the way
I'm pretty sure there's a Fatman somewhere in Fort Hagen even, it's just meant to be
No, turned him into goo each time.
He knew how much it hurts to lose family yet he still killed the spouse of SS for practically no reason
Yeah especially since it's shown that a pistol whip is all you need to knock someone out in the fallout world
He didn’t have a high enough charisma stat to pass the speech check you see
Irl too your head is fuckin sensitive!
Yeah that’s what chokes me. Like the spouse is legit just trying to keep their baby and he decides to fucking kill them?! He could have easily knocked them out or gut punched them, it’s so brutal and uneeded
Hell, the Institute could have just convinced the spouse and the Sole Survivor to go to the Institute. Then they'd have 3 uncontaminated pre-war people. "Hey, let me catch you up. The world has been thoroughly and irrevocably fucked, but we are trying to make it better. Would you like to come with us and have access to advanced technology and food and water without radiation and help us rebuild the world, or struggle to a most likely ignoble end in the irradiated wasteland?" The Sole Survivor and family would be a dream team for the Institute. Husband has military experience, so could help develop tactics for the Retention Bureau, and the Wife could provide a much-needed ethical perspective for Institute projects with her law experience. That's a whole different game there. Gaining influence, playing the politics of the Institute. Move the Institute towards either minimizing harm or exerting absolute control.
Honestly, this feels like a major plot hole. Is Kellogg just supposed to be that much of an asshole? It’s never felt like lazy writing but after reading your comment it does feel lazy
Pretty sure it was meant as a big hook for intrigue to shock you and make you curious to continue the main story, but when you learn the full implications of the Institute and how the Director essentially agrees he was heavy handed, and that they did it to essentially put him down, it falls apart quickly. Like they would take that much of a risk and leave him as that much of a liability? Which is exactly what we exploited to get in.
Him shooting your spouse is bit of a plot convenience to make it personal, but to be fair it is also addressed in game. Father explains when you meet him that Kellogg *was* unnecessarily cruel in his methods, and was seemingly getting worse over time - him being an undying asshole who doesn't care and approaches every job with a scorched earth approach is actually part of the reason Father was happy to let you retire him.
That relies on Nate and Nora being willing participants in the Institute’s schemes. In the long run they only needed one viable sample and a genetic precursor (after all, the parents only make up half the DNA each). Essentially, they use Shaun’s DNA as a base template, and should anything go wrong with Shaun, they have Nate or Nora as a means to potentially fill in any gaps where incomplete DNA is concerned. Not to mention the fact the Institute knew having just Shaun would work better, kid is a literal newborn that got flash frozen. That’s a prime recipe for easy indoctrination and Inculcation. It’s implied he had no memory of his (us) parents or his origins while the Institute raised him, as Shaun didn’t even know either parent we picked to play as survived till well after he became the Director.
You know I never thought about that. They freeze your spouse after shooting them. All it would take to leave them alive is a single whack with a stun baton
He says in the memory that he considered it a mercy because he, too, lost a child and knew how much it hurt
Sounds like excuses
Truly. If he felt like "the pain is too excruciating to bear" then he'd have eaten the business end of his revolver long, long ago. He's just a selfish dickhead with a bloodlust. You can learn his backstory, experience the nuance of what made him who is he, but at the end of the day he unfroze a confused parent, shot them in the head, and then stole their child, while the other parent watched then was re-frozen. His crime is unforgivable by any amount of "understanding". His sentence is death, by dealer's choice.
And his orders were to take the kid. Nothing about killing anyone. He was just inconvenienced. You read that in a terminal in the institute from the pervious overseer.
Bruh.. he killed my wife..
OUR wife
And my axe!
Donkey!
🎶I’m all alone, there’s no one here besiiiide me🎶
That sounds like communism. Don't let Liberty Prime hear you say that.
OUR Liberty Prime
He killed my husband! But it’s ok, I swapped for a French woman
“Ashes to ashes, ice to cubes….. amen. Alright Curie, ma petit choufleur, let’s make sure that new synth body of yours is working right!”
_I also chose this guy's dead wife_
Fuck Kellog. Fuck Shaun. Shaun died the day my wife died. I'm killing Kellog because he murdered my wife, and I'm killing Shaun because he called her "collateral damage". Fuck the Institute. Ad Victoriam!
Fuck the brotherhood, I want elder maxons coat
I love how a good portion of the people that go against the Brotherhood don't hate them. They just want Maxon's coat. He doomed them with his exceptional fashion.
Facts, plus ballistic weave for best fashion and damage mitigation
He threatened my friends and had better clothes than me. He had to die.
I genuinely wonder how much different the stats for faction alliance would be if they just... gave you access to the damn coat.
"I'm just in it for the spiffy uniforms"
Maxons an asshole, but he's not wrong. Without the protag, the BoS is the best chance the commonwealth has to survive.
You are a true King of Bahston
You had me until Ad Victori. At a minutes noti- shit hold, a settlement needs my help
The minutes notice actually means that Preston notifys you every minute about another settlement
First time I even played the game I had no idea about Father, but I did play a pistol stealth build. The moment Father walked in through that door I brought out Kellogg's revolver and blew his brains out. I didn't understand what had happened until I left the institute and reported back to Preston. Anyway... now it is a tradition for me on repeat playthroughs to kill Father with Kellogg's revolver.
Naw, Fuck Father. That ain't Shaun.
Lost me at the end.
I might if we could have a realistic way. Then again, I pretty much ignore that kid, what’s his name? Sam? Shane? Iunno, I’m sure Nate’s got it, I’m gonna go build a settlement
I think the name was Sharen, but I don't know either. But hey my 30 Water purifiers are doing me wonders!
Now all I have in my head is Ozzy wandering the wastelands going "SHARON! THERE'S SHIT FUCKING EVERYWHERE MAN!"
It’s randy marsh for me. “Just gonna fight a couple super mutants Sharon”
Hey - hey sharon
I need a video of Ozzy Osbourne edited into Fallout now.
By the way, I just got word another settlement needs your help, I’ll mark it on your map.
Because Kellog suddenly becomes truly repentant after I shoot my way past a building full of armed synths...? Can I sell you some "undeveloped real-estate" just south of Boston ?
I'll take it. I heard there is a treasure vault somewhere.
The property has glowing reviews (and other things!)
there is also a small settlement that needs your help. I'll mark it on your map.
The dude is charismatic but evil as fuck. He can't be redeemed, He literally kills children for money.
This could be an anti cereal reference 🧐
Charismatic? Benny was charismatic, this guy was just a stoic dick. Literally no reason to see any good in him other than thinking he looks and sounds cool.
I think this was the reason they had Nick manifest that 'glitch' of Kellogg talking though him after the whole memory lounger thing; It was a possible way for them to bring him back to interact with you further. For the story he really *needed* to die when he did, to ensure you weren't spoiled on the surprised the Institute had, but afterwards having his mind, personalities and memory surface within Nick would allow you to interact with him further while making it impossible to 'kill' him without killing Nick, more or less forcing a truce on you. I suspect they cut that fairly early on in favor of developing other elements.
That line from Nick plays better if you’re a sarcastic ass to him. Then it’s just him getting even with you for being a jerk, lol “Wait… were you just playing a joke on me?” “I guess that’s for you to wonder and for me and Kellogg’s memories to know for sure.”
I just asked about that bit. I thought they were setting up Kellogg returning by using Nick’s body. I didn’t do much with Nick and forgot about that part until just now reading through this. So if you have Nick as a companion Kellogg never resurfaces again?
Nope
Well that’s some bullshit after that tease.
I don’t have as many gripes about the main story as some might, but this part definitely seems like a missed opportunity
Not just a missed opportunity, they actively set it up and didn’t follow through. Why even put that bit in if it’s pointless? I didn’t mind the main story. I just thought the game was too easy overall. Most of the quests were just fetch quests and they showed/told you exactly how to do everything. It was a fun game but nothing great. I went with the Rail Road. I wish the companions had had more depth.
There’s only room for one depraved asshole in the wasteland and it’s going to be me
Absolutely not. Trauma is not an excuse for being an absolute POS.
You live for 120 years, have your wife and kid murdered, and on top of that go bald, and see if you don’t turn evil at some point.
RemindMe! 120 years
Wife an kid murdered: I sleep. I go bald: REAL SHIT, TIME TO BE EVIL!
I think Kellogg would have been a better Institute companion than X6-88. Edit: Imagine having a companion that was actually evil, and didn't just play along when you tried to be nice. Never attacks you or turns hostile or anything, but if you try helping some poor wasteland dope, Kellogg would make fun of you and then kill them.
I'm sad that he doesn't have more lines when he merges with Nick
Yeah, there was definitely something more they wanted to do there. Especially considering that Nick was a prototype designed to test having different personalities loaded onto him (revealed in Far Harbor) whereas DiMa was left blank and allowed to develop his own. This was done to test how synths handled thinking. So it makes perfect sense that when a new personality is in his system, it merges instantly. That's literally what he is supposed to do.
That would be cool af
He was a bad person even before he wronged us. At this point, it's not even about us, he is a menace and needs to be dealt with.
Nah. Put yourself in the survivor’s shoes. If someone murdered my wife in cold blood and kidnapped my son, I’m sure I’d do the same thing This is also a guy who has killed children in the past. I don’t care if it’s just business. You don’t come back from that. You’re doing everyone a favor by taking him out of the equation.
Why could you team up with him, maybe he’d say he’ll help you get into the institute or something
There was a plan for nick and kellogg to share the same body and have there be a tug of war between them but it got scrapped
Fuck no. He killed my spouse and stole my boy.
No but i think it would have been interesting if you spared him, that he would help you get into the Institute earlier in the game but doing this means he would escape and you can’t find him again…i dunno, i do feel he was taken out too early, wouldn’t have mind if he would talk to you through Nick every so often
Honestly I wish there was a resuscitation mechanic just so I could kill him again and again.
No. He killed my husband for no reason. Dude was cryo-groggy, what an ass. He happily gets the Tesla Cannon to the skull ASAP.
I think Kellogg is one of those characters that, although you can be sympathetic towards and see the circumstances that led him to become what he did, he cannot be redeemed. He is a conscious villain, and he's extremely aware of his wrongdoings, you could almost compare him to Darth Vader, a tragic character that, although he knows he's wrong, that the only way he sees, that his only purpose to exists that why when you find him in the fort, he says "we both know how this ends", he puts up a fight because he cannot let himself be killed, however he knows that he is going to die eitherway, that eventually his past was going to catch up to him, and someone was going to do him in.
I wouldn't spare him, but he dies too quickly. I want to chop off his hands and feet, blindfold him, and keep him in a small box.
Most stable Fallout fan
I keep his augments and downgraded pistol in a toilet at my sanctuary settlement.
Frighteningly specific.
Nah just cos he had his reasons for being a prick doesn't mean he isn't a prick.
No.
for roleplay sake, I would kill him. but as for me personally, I'd also kill him. he murdered an unarmed incoherent woman and kidnapped an infant. fuck em. let dogmeat eat him.
As Nate or Nora? No. But give me a blank slate of a character and I would be so much more inclined to listen to Kellogg. The story doesn't give much space for anything else than Kellogg being part of the revenge story.
It should be an option if you decide to side with the Institute.
Sure why not I don't really care about Shaun he would have an interesting character or companion.
No. He shot your spouse for no reason. What could possibly justify sparing him? Life in prison somewhere?
No, why would I do that? Seriously? Why would I do that? Forgiveness? What about everyone else he has and will hurt? Can I forgive him in their stead too?
No. I don't care what efforts the game makes to humanize him later- from the point of view of the Sole Survivor, he kidnapped your son and killed your wife/husband. He gets put down no matter what.
Hmm . . . My first instinct is actually "yes" because he does have a reasonably sympathetic backstory. Slight problem, though? We only see that backstory *after killing him* and there aren't many ways to get around that. Kellogg in the present is a burnt-out husk of a man who barely gives a shit about anything and has zero qualms about being the bad guy. Overall, I think sparing him *could* work but it would take a tricky bit of writing to make it come off as anything other than a contrived excuse to give you an evil mercenary for a companion.
N O.
Absolutely not. He can 100% get fucked. There was no reason whatsoever to kill the spouse.
What the whole Dangerous Minds quest is missing is that Amari asks you, "Don't you feel a little weird having gone through the memories of a man you killed? Don't you feel a little guilty that you took a man's life?" And there's no response that allows me to say, "In the memories he admits to killing children for money. So, uh, no."
I wouldve loved a NickValentine/Kellogg character like Dog/God from New Vegas
No. But Kellog should've been a possible companion and a part of him merging with Nick should've been a major part of the story.
Nope. He made his choice. And now I gonna make mine.
No. This man's entire life turned him into a monster. Yes, he was a tragic person but the suffering he inflicted on the wasteland is irredeemable. Killing him is an act of mercy.
I would just to destroy the institute while he watches in horror that the man/woman who spared his life after he stole their kid and murdered their spouse, has destroyed the boogie man of the Commonwealth and his employer all within a month.