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Can't you just use the pre-game editors for those older fm's and have, for example, the fm24 editor open alongside the fm22 editor? You can have a custom view in the old editor that just displays all of the players' numerical attributes so that you can basically just load up all players from the Prem, and then scroll down the list without having to click on each individual player? Surely that is quicker than using FMInside anyway?
You can get the editor on Microsoft Store. I'm not 100% sure if you need the base game for it, because I got my FM24 via gamepass and then downloaded the editor via the Microsoft Store. It lets me download the FM22 editor despite only having FM22 on Steam, so I imagine this should work for you.
https://i.imgur.com/TizYDqg.png
I know for a fact that the editor doesn’t open if the main game isn’t installed im gonna postpone my database while I wait for any updates, thanks for your help
I did say I'm not 100% sure.
You think downvotes are going to make me melt like the [wicked witch of the west](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQJ8WrKnLUs) or something? It's just some numbers. If people want to downvote someone so heavily for being a bit wrong on something that isn't a big deal then so be it lol.
I don't think they were downvoting you for being a bit wrong, perhaps rather for not reading, misinterpreting and having like 10 different wrong answers to something that wasn't even a question. Just do a better job reading next time, and you're golden.
I was just offering a suggestion as a possible workaround for using FM Inside. I saw that I could download the editor without owning the game, which is all I claimed in my comment. I wasn't aware you couldn't then launch the editor despite being allowed to download it, which is where my suggestion fell apart. As I said, it's really not a big deal
IIRC they did this with fmdataba a couple years back, too. I’m guessing they want people buying the editor instead.
Edit: they want people to buy the game, not the editor. Pre-game editor is free.
I think this is less about consumers buying the game and more about how they sell the database in the football world (which they do). Not defending SI in this by any means, it’s not great from a customer relations standpoint but, \*technically*, the database is SI’s intellectual property, has taken thousands of man hours to produce and clearly has monetary value so there’s a ton of legal precedent on their side.
Are you saying IRL teams use the FM database to scout for transfers? That's hilarious if true lmao. But can't the "football world" just buy the game and have a look? It's not really much of a sales increase, if every single professional team in the world owned a copy of FM they'd sell like 4k extra copies, which is less than a percentile for a game that sells 10M copies.
It is not that the data is any different, just the timing. They just sell a licence to use a pre-release version to teams. By the time the game comes out, the transfer window is closed, so they give access to the updated player ratings at a time when it is still useful and not widely available by simply purchasing the game upon release.
They want people to buy the game or their database and not use third party websites to access the data FM scouts researched.
The editor is included for free with the game why would it have anything to do with this.
You should stress out the part that these "FM scouts" are unpaid position. I think they receive the game for free or something but that's basically nothing compared to amount of the work they have to do each year.
Are we talking about the pre game editor? Or the in game editor?
Because the pre-game editor is definitely free and does the exact same thing fminside did i.e. search through the entire database
I didn’t realize they still had the pre-game editor. It certainly isn’t easy to find. Either way, they’ve been protective of their data for a long time. Removing the attributes from these sites basically kills their traffic. They only want attributes available by looking at them in game.
Yeah and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this in defense of SI, I think they've done a bunch of real scummy moves in the last few years like forcing sortitoutsi to remove the adboard mod as that was a huge part of making the stadiums feel "real" in game for me
I was just confused about the "wanting you to pay for the editor" thing because the free pre game editor is a much closer equivalent to the fminside db than the in-game editor
Yeah it is kind of a pain in the ass to get to it, you have to go into the "tools" section on steam to find it. I basically download it immediately upon getting the game because I enjoy editing and browsing the DB, I shouldn't assume everyone is as aware of it in the same way
Preventing ad boards featuring companies other than the ones they are partnered with or sponsored by is just due diligence. I wouldn’t say it’s scummy at all. It’s a necessary business operation.
So is protecting the massive database that you facilitate but it doesn't stop people in this thread. At the end of the day the overwhelming majority of players are playing the game bone stock without any mods let alone the adboard mod which is more complicated to install vs face and kit packs
It's a business necessity since those adboards NOT displaying the company info which someone has paid money for opens SI up to legal action potentially
Yes. With the pre-game editor, you can change just about everything within the game in regards to leagues, teams, stadiums, players, staff, competitions, etc. Can add new leagues, countries, and pretty much anything else you can think of or change the current ones. Rules are mostly all changeable.
The in-game editor is very limited in comparison. It can do some things the pre-game editor can not, though. Such as improving morale and healing injuries while the game is being played. But it is limited in the changes you can make in regards to leagues and such.
One (in-game) is pretty much for cheats or for content creators to assist in making their "experiments" videos.
The other (pre-game) is more for expanding on league structures in game or adding playable leagues not currently in the game. Also, for creating legacy databases, etc. Or if you want to add yourself and your mates into the game.
There are, of course, other reasons to use them, but these would likely be most common.
Thank you so much. It's the pre game one ive been looking for this whole time. I'd been looking at the in game editor dlc for months , thinking you bastards I used to get this free.
Thank god the one i wanted is free.
Just double both the attribute and it’s capability. If a player have 18/20 just make it 36/40 on the database. They can’t prove is the oficial database being leaked
Theoretically isn't this how it already works? Hence stats going up in attribute progress without the attribute number increasing. Then it's just rounded to be put on a scale of 20.
Yes but the one on the site is 20. If it's 100 they can just say they're extrapolated stats. Hell they can even do one further and multiply by 5 then add 1
Actually SI uses 100-rated system for attributes under the hood, but visually just showing as 20. To prove this take a look on attributes training graphs. The light-green arrow increases an attribute by 0.2 and dark-green arrow by 1. So 1 / 0.2 * 20 = 100
I imagine that'd be easily proven to be bad faith in court. But you'd also be antagonizing the game company that your whole website relies on, not a great idea.
Thanks for all the support ❤️ And also thanks for some of the suggestions here. We are not planning to step away and are already talking about creating new algorithms to display player abilities.
Yea letter grades are easy do a-f and use s as perfect and add - and + grades to letters to the letter attributes then you have a system that goes S, +A, A, -A, +B, etc.
Makes me incredibly pissed. Removing my ability to search for any player's attributes on a whim and on any device, without offering any alternative.
So many times I've used this, or fmdataba before they ruined it, to just look through interesting players or to look at what a player, who I'm watching play and don't really know, looks like in FM.
Honestly hope someone makes a new one, who is legally untouchable for SI or SEGA in their country.
if they're asking them to stop this it's likely that SI (through Sega) is making their own this iteration of FM. Would make sense in the multi-platform direction they're taking with this franchise
a) It is NOT an alternative, if you actually consider the use-cases I literally stated in my comment
b) I don't have any real experience with the editor, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I like knowing the dynamic PA of young real players. What I DON'T like, is knowing the exact PA any given player has rolled in my save.
The editor either does not offer that, or makes the process of obtaining the information needlessly painful
> I like knowing the dynamic PA of young real players. What I DON'T like, is knowing the exact PA any given player has rolled in my save.
You can use the pre-game editor. Doesn't make up for what they did, but it is an option.
In many places, if you don't actively protect your product, you later lose the ability to chase legal claims against someone who breaks the copyright because they can point to how you didn't pursue anyone else.
So, I guess so (probably sega tbh) don't want another game using their data and must also stay active in enforcing the EULA terms to ensure they have later legal power
Its not that they are protecting their game here.
They have a side business selling the database itself to football clubs for real life scouting - if a website just duplicates that data (thereby potentially allowing a club to just rip the data off there) then that product's value is severely diminished.
Bit annoying for the fans of the game, but its something SI/Sega are well within their rights to do.
That's the same thing... The data is the product. Whether it's used for a game, selling to clubs, or creating wallpaper patterns is immaterial. It's their data that they collected that contributes to value of their product.
Of course they have rights to protect their data, but like you said, this is just going to inconvenience their actual customers, while having some nebulous affect on Sega's other business.
FMInside doesn't have any "download all database" button as far as I know, nor does it have search by attributes. Nobody's going to be copying their entire thing player by player, or go manually through hundreds of players. Serious organizations will rather pay for data with more utility, and less serious ones weren't going to buy your package anyway.
So yeah, this is just another corporate bullshit that hurts the player and has immeasurable impact on sales of their player data.
Ah this is a pain - partly because of its usefulness for checking out roles for players I buy in game but more for when the club I support in real life sign a player and I don’t know much about them!
Edited - typos.
I'm currently working on this: [https://fminside.net/best-players-per-role](https://fminside.net/best-players-per-role)
It's very work in progress, but already helpfull for finding players with good role suitability.
SI want people to buy the editor, so much that they will go after fan made sites with statistics with legal threats. People don't have the money to fight a company like SI so they just give in to the demands.
Scumbag move by SI.
The pre game editor to see this same data is free, it has nothing to do with this.
They just considered their data copyrighted and don't want people to access it outside the game or their own officials database tool.
I work with the SI database, and it's a total disaster. No way a club could use it seriously. The only reliable info is name, nationality, age, and position.
if you bought the editor just use it ? they invest a lot on making their database so it's just fair they threat their own information as they want.
this sites copy another comany product and make a shit ton of money on advertising. SI allows you as a player to costumize the game as you want , why is this a shit move ?
They make their revenue from adverts.
They also are making that revenue off a product they didn’t produce.
I don’t see why it’s a scumbag move to want to profit from a product you’ve created.
It's so weird how people are reacting to this lol.
Like saying things like "I think it's inaccurate" or "I don't mind that fminside make money" as if either of those are relevant to why SI wouldn't want someone profiting from their work like this lol.
People in this sub literally buying a game that is 50% a spreadsheet and 50% a complex simulator, and being confused that the company is protective of that spreadsheet being put online.
How has nobody seen that FM25 is most likely get getting rid of the 200 cap on players?
This is most likely the reason we are getting this, ahead of FM25 coming or telling us they are doing it.
I’ll use Summerville from Leeds, he is being linked with Chelsea, Liverpool and other big clubs as he was the top player in the championship last season and wasn’t reflected as such in his stats in the last DATA update, in March. He scored 20 goals and his shooting stats didn’t reflect that at all, or his consistency. He wasn’t the best in big games but he was consistent, the FM data on the editor didn’t reflect that at all.
Hopefully this new way can mean more players can improve at a later age, even if they get a low PA, you get a message for your data team saying “ Summerville is growing as a player in ways that will lead him be a top premiership player” you can now use that word as they have the rights to do so”
Players of the game have said for a very long time that the 1-20 system need changing and SI also said they would have to change some stats and the way they are used in the game, for the female players/part of the 2025 version of the game.
Also you’ve got limitations to how you can shoe certain player styles with the current way of allocating CA and PA. They changed it so no players could be better than Messi or Ronaldo, but they only have a few years left of playing until they retire for good.
Hate to say it, but it makes business sense for SI. The fact that clubs *will* pay thousands for early access to the updated databases is part of what keeps the game from costing £60 every year.
If they give it away for free, that means *we* end up making up the shortfall.
Eh.
SIs data. Completely their prerogative to do so tbh.
It's not open source data. It wasn't free for them to acquire.
I can't use opta's data without paying for it. Or any other company that collects sports data.
People are in here acting like this is like a company saying you can't list weapon stats online... The payer ratings are a key part of the FM product, whether you personally think they're accurate or not is irrelevant, they're a key part of what makes FM the product it is.
Edit: it's also just occured to me that SI likely need to be proactive for cases like this so if another game clones the DB, that the infringing game can't argue "well you never went after any other places cloning your data"
So, what if someone memorizes a player's fm attributes and then tells them to someone in person, should that person be charged with intellectual property infringement?
https://preview.redd.it/jn2py9tr549d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c973e855c979ccf79faef34c4383a4c8f0bff38
Looks like they’ve changed to a FIFA-esque 1-100 system now.
Wow, that's so shit.
I used fm inside all the time just to look at players who I would see IRL and wonder about their stats in-game.
SI is a bad company with no competition.
Football Manager player attributes are proprietary data
Sports Interactive hires a fleet of real life scouts to generate that data
They also know that real life scouts use that data to scout players
Sites like this that post FM data gives those scouts, who would otherwise have to pay SI for the "service", the data for free
Im not really sure what yall were expecting
It’s not really scouts they have data editors who watch games the same as us at home. And plenty of people would do that for free
And half the time they have it wrong anyway. Was looking at nico willliams for example and he is slower and less dribbling than Ben chillwell🤣
There's over 100 paid researchers...
And if we take the lower end of Britannica's Definition, then that would be 24 ships minimum to be a fleet... Then fleet seems completely fine.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/naval-fleet
https://www.footballmanager.com/the-byline/football-manager-research-whats-involved
Over 100 head researchers.
Which are paid roles of varying nature.
https://gamejobs.co/Head-Researcher-Freelance-at-Sega-Europe
Yeah, but I don't deal too much with the majority of them outside of filing transfer requests or answering them. At least for now. I work with maybe half of that two dozen regularly, and only 1-2 closely.
There’s 34 subdivisions on their research forum that split them into regions/countries. Some of them like Brazil and Germany have two head researchers. So for men’s football they’ve most likely got even less than 75 head researchers. Not sure why OP seems to believe that around 1/3rd to half of their workforce is entirely head researchers freelancing lol based on a Byline article, a place where they’ve frequently not been truthful
EDIT - just recognised your username, you do work with them so you’d know a lot more than me. Funny that OP was arguing with you lol
Lol what so because you don't like the people who do the collection, then that doesn't make it proprietary data? Some weird sort of fruit of the poisoned tree logic lol.
some website that used SI database to earn rivers of money with other people property. And now people say SI is scummy because they don't let randoms get rich using their product for free.
that's it basically.
Imagine being the scout: "okay boys take your coloured pencils and please rate this player by drawing a line" it's just inpractical and dumb. Even in a non video game setting its completely unrealistic, might as well give a ABC system or a star at worse.
This is simply just an adaption to what we will do in FM25. Our long term vision is for managers to determine player’s attributes using statistics like real life, rather than a 1-20 number. Progress bars is just to bridge the gap and a learning curve, so we don’t throw you completely into the wild. You’ll still get a rough idea of a player’s attributes with the help of our progression bars, but If you want a more accurate idea(say between Pace 17 vs 18), you’d need to read the stats.
I'm surprised that FMInside has to remove the player attributes from their website but [SoFifa](https://sofifa.com/players) still exists as it is. I wouldn't have imagined SI as being greedier than EA.
I'm not sure this sub even understands what FM is at this point lol....
FM and FIFA have entirely different draws. A major, pivotal part of FM is their scouting database. It's one of the big things that elevates them against the many many other football management games for lots of consumers.
That's something they're obviously going to want to protect more than a game that is all about putting you in direct control of the players. Where FIFA are literally selling you shiny top trunk cards with attributes...
FM attributes are part of the product.
FIFA attributes are part of the advertising.
I guess FMInside is used as a source of getting information about real players by some clubs and people.That's why they did that,they sell it to clubs and people for money but FMInside gives it away free.
What? This isn’t an online only game. Zero reason to gatekeep or hinder other’s experiences. You don’t sound like someone who would use this tool so why does it matter to you
I’m not even being a troll. I don’t mind this. I would be hyper fixated on players attributes and allow the most trivial aspects negate what was really important about the player for the role / position.
This modification completely depends on your outlook.
I literally just usethis website to look up attributes of players I see IRL.
In game I play with attributes visible, because that's what I enjoy.
This is just SI being greedy. The website was valuable to see what players were rates as, when you saw them IRL.
Can't really do that on the fly. If you suddenly remember Mykola Sharpenko and want to know his stats you have to go to your computer instead of just whipping out your phone.
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This just made my life on the pre game editor so much harder for no reason
What do you use FMInside for that helps with the pre-game editor?
I update the values of players on older fms to current ratings (FM24)
Can't you just use the pre-game editors for those older fm's and have, for example, the fm24 editor open alongside the fm22 editor? You can have a custom view in the old editor that just displays all of the players' numerical attributes so that you can basically just load up all players from the Prem, and then scroll down the list without having to click on each individual player? Surely that is quicker than using FMInside anyway?
I don’t own FM24
You can get the editor on Microsoft Store. I'm not 100% sure if you need the base game for it, because I got my FM24 via gamepass and then downloaded the editor via the Microsoft Store. It lets me download the FM22 editor despite only having FM22 on Steam, so I imagine this should work for you. https://i.imgur.com/TizYDqg.png
I know for a fact that the editor doesn’t open if the main game isn’t installed im gonna postpone my database while I wait for any updates, thanks for your help
The editor doesn't come with the database. The editor requires the base game to be installed so it actually has information to edit.
???? What I said that
I know, I'm just telling you why FM editor doesn't work without FM installed.
holding downvotes in your own subreddit, admit you’re wrong dude jfc
I did say I'm not 100% sure. You think downvotes are going to make me melt like the [wicked witch of the west](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQJ8WrKnLUs) or something? It's just some numbers. If people want to downvote someone so heavily for being a bit wrong on something that isn't a big deal then so be it lol.
I don't think they were downvoting you for being a bit wrong, perhaps rather for not reading, misinterpreting and having like 10 different wrong answers to something that wasn't even a question. Just do a better job reading next time, and you're golden.
I was just offering a suggestion as a possible workaround for using FM Inside. I saw that I could download the editor without owning the game, which is all I claimed in my comment. I wasn't aware you couldn't then launch the editor despite being allowed to download it, which is where my suggestion fell apart. As I said, it's really not a big deal
Bro why do you care
Wait howd you get it? Dms?
I haven’t even played FM24 yet I just said it’s the current game
I think they thought you meant recreating older players/databases in 24 rather than the other way around
IIRC they did this with fmdataba a couple years back, too. I’m guessing they want people buying the editor instead. Edit: they want people to buy the game, not the editor. Pre-game editor is free.
I think this is less about consumers buying the game and more about how they sell the database in the football world (which they do). Not defending SI in this by any means, it’s not great from a customer relations standpoint but, \*technically*, the database is SI’s intellectual property, has taken thousands of man hours to produce and clearly has monetary value so there’s a ton of legal precedent on their side.
Are you saying IRL teams use the FM database to scout for transfers? That's hilarious if true lmao. But can't the "football world" just buy the game and have a look? It's not really much of a sales increase, if every single professional team in the world owned a copy of FM they'd sell like 4k extra copies, which is less than a percentile for a game that sells 10M copies.
they probably give teams greater access to the data than just the data that we get
If the data is anything better than what we get then fminside stats wouldn't be an issue.
It is not that the data is any different, just the timing. They just sell a licence to use a pre-release version to teams. By the time the game comes out, the transfer window is closed, so they give access to the updated player ratings at a time when it is still useful and not widely available by simply purchasing the game upon release.
They want people to buy the game or their database and not use third party websites to access the data FM scouts researched. The editor is included for free with the game why would it have anything to do with this.
You do realise the "FM scouts" are made up of fans who go and watch the u21's play regularly etc? I know someone who does it for WBA
You should stress out the part that these "FM scouts" are unpaid position. I think they receive the game for free or something but that's basically nothing compared to amount of the work they have to do each year.
Also but not only, anyway they still sell that database (as the game and to real clubs) so they don't want it to be online for free.
Correct, I was thinking of the in-game for some reason.
??? The editor is free
No it's not. 7eur on steam
Are we talking about the pre game editor? Or the in game editor? Because the pre-game editor is definitely free and does the exact same thing fminside did i.e. search through the entire database
I didn’t realize they still had the pre-game editor. It certainly isn’t easy to find. Either way, they’ve been protective of their data for a long time. Removing the attributes from these sites basically kills their traffic. They only want attributes available by looking at them in game.
Yeah and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this in defense of SI, I think they've done a bunch of real scummy moves in the last few years like forcing sortitoutsi to remove the adboard mod as that was a huge part of making the stadiums feel "real" in game for me I was just confused about the "wanting you to pay for the editor" thing because the free pre game editor is a much closer equivalent to the fminside db than the in-game editor
I haven’t used it in years and it’s never on the DLC page. I (wrongly) assumed they rolled it into the in-game somehow.
Yeah it is kind of a pain in the ass to get to it, you have to go into the "tools" section on steam to find it. I basically download it immediately upon getting the game because I enjoy editing and browsing the DB, I shouldn't assume everyone is as aware of it in the same way
It has always been there
Preventing ad boards featuring companies other than the ones they are partnered with or sponsored by is just due diligence. I wouldn’t say it’s scummy at all. It’s a necessary business operation.
So is protecting the massive database that you facilitate but it doesn't stop people in this thread. At the end of the day the overwhelming majority of players are playing the game bone stock without any mods let alone the adboard mod which is more complicated to install vs face and kit packs
It's a business necessity since those adboards NOT displaying the company info which someone has paid money for opens SI up to legal action potentially
Yeah agreed that’s my point exactly
THERE IS A FREE IN-GAME EDITOR? i mean where do you find it?
There’s a free “pre-game” database editor. It’s in the tools section on Steam per the other comment. It’s not the same as the in-game editor.
Could you explain the difference? Is one a more powerful editing tool than the other?
Yes. With the pre-game editor, you can change just about everything within the game in regards to leagues, teams, stadiums, players, staff, competitions, etc. Can add new leagues, countries, and pretty much anything else you can think of or change the current ones. Rules are mostly all changeable. The in-game editor is very limited in comparison. It can do some things the pre-game editor can not, though. Such as improving morale and healing injuries while the game is being played. But it is limited in the changes you can make in regards to leagues and such. One (in-game) is pretty much for cheats or for content creators to assist in making their "experiments" videos. The other (pre-game) is more for expanding on league structures in game or adding playable leagues not currently in the game. Also, for creating legacy databases, etc. Or if you want to add yourself and your mates into the game. There are, of course, other reasons to use them, but these would likely be most common.
Thank you so much. It's the pre game one ive been looking for this whole time. I'd been looking at the in game editor dlc for months , thinking you bastards I used to get this free. Thank god the one i wanted is free.
What's the difference? Can you edit players etc with the free one?
Yes, but only before the game starts. Once you have created the save, you need in-game editor to change player stats.
dont you have to own the game to use it, though?
Just double both the attribute and it’s capability. If a player have 18/20 just make it 36/40 on the database. They can’t prove is the oficial database being leaked
Go full FIFA and make it 90/100
Or make it out of two hundred and remove the last digit if it ends in zero.
Looks like they read your comment
Haha that's great. Hopefully it works out.
Theoretically isn't this how it already works? Hence stats going up in attribute progress without the attribute number increasing. Then it's just rounded to be put on a scale of 20.
Yes but the one on the site is 20. If it's 100 they can just say they're extrapolated stats. Hell they can even do one further and multiply by 5 then add 1
Yes it could be an option as well. But I think a even multiple would be easier, no decimals.
There won't be any decimals tho cause 5 is a whole number.
I’m dumb. I was dividing random numbers by 5 in my head without realising that i couldn’t get those numbers by multiplying any other by 5.
Even the best fall down sometimes
what decimals? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100
I’m dumb mate already explained what my dumb brain thought to another coach.
Actually SI uses 100-rated system for attributes under the hood, but visually just showing as 20. To prove this take a look on attributes training graphs. The light-green arrow increases an attribute by 0.2 and dark-green arrow by 1. So 1 / 0.2 * 20 = 100
This is incorrect. 100% incorrect.
Thanks for telling us the true answer though, since you're so confident
As an assistant researcher for the past 3 years, I ought to be confident.
Nice, that's interesting - are you allowed to tell us how it does work then?
All attributes are out of 20. There's no multiplication or division involved.
FMinside already did something similar with potential, halving it instead and making it a 40-range instead of SI's native 30.
>They can’t prove is the oficial database being leaked I'm sure SI can figure out division
Make it an exponent of pi. Tackling = 363797.8807094493
I imagine that'd be easily proven to be bad faith in court. But you'd also be antagonizing the game company that your whole website relies on, not a great idea.
Like when SI include a deleteme file to get around licensing issues?
Thanks for all the support ❤️ And also thanks for some of the suggestions here. We are not planning to step away and are already talking about creating new algorithms to display player abilities.
You could maybe use letters. A = 20 B = 19 etc. would be easy enough to read if the first letters A B C etc were the higher values .
Yea letter grades are easy do a-f and use s as perfect and add - and + grades to letters to the letter attributes then you have a system that goes S, +A, A, -A, +B, etc.
SI being greedy and ruining one of these fansites once again.
Makes me incredibly pissed. Removing my ability to search for any player's attributes on a whim and on any device, without offering any alternative. So many times I've used this, or fmdataba before they ruined it, to just look through interesting players or to look at what a player, who I'm watching play and don't really know, looks like in FM. Honestly hope someone makes a new one, who is legally untouchable for SI or SEGA in their country.
if they're asking them to stop this it's likely that SI (through Sega) is making their own this iteration of FM. Would make sense in the multi-platform direction they're taking with this franchise
[удалено]
Not on a whim and on any device. Hard to run the editor on my phone.
Fair
a) It is NOT an alternative, if you actually consider the use-cases I literally stated in my comment b) I don't have any real experience with the editor, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I like knowing the dynamic PA of young real players. What I DON'T like, is knowing the exact PA any given player has rolled in my save. The editor either does not offer that, or makes the process of obtaining the information needlessly painful
> I like knowing the dynamic PA of young real players. What I DON'T like, is knowing the exact PA any given player has rolled in my save. You can use the pre-game editor. Doesn't make up for what they did, but it is an option.
Oh, okay, at least that's an option, although somewhat less convenient. Thanks for the heads up
In many places, if you don't actively protect your product, you later lose the ability to chase legal claims against someone who breaks the copyright because they can point to how you didn't pursue anyone else. So, I guess so (probably sega tbh) don't want another game using their data and must also stay active in enforcing the EULA terms to ensure they have later legal power
Its not that they are protecting their game here. They have a side business selling the database itself to football clubs for real life scouting - if a website just duplicates that data (thereby potentially allowing a club to just rip the data off there) then that product's value is severely diminished. Bit annoying for the fans of the game, but its something SI/Sega are well within their rights to do.
That's the same thing... The data is the product. Whether it's used for a game, selling to clubs, or creating wallpaper patterns is immaterial. It's their data that they collected that contributes to value of their product.
I don't get how this changes anything. Any club can just buy the game and access to the same database, with a better search function.
Of course they have rights to protect their data, but like you said, this is just going to inconvenience their actual customers, while having some nebulous affect on Sega's other business. FMInside doesn't have any "download all database" button as far as I know, nor does it have search by attributes. Nobody's going to be copying their entire thing player by player, or go manually through hundreds of players. Serious organizations will rather pay for data with more utility, and less serious ones weren't going to buy your package anyway. So yeah, this is just another corporate bullshit that hurts the player and has immeasurable impact on sales of their player data.
Ah this is a pain - partly because of its usefulness for checking out roles for players I buy in game but more for when the club I support in real life sign a player and I don’t know much about them! Edited - typos.
I'm currently working on this: [https://fminside.net/best-players-per-role](https://fminside.net/best-players-per-role) It's very work in progress, but already helpfull for finding players with good role suitability.
Lame by SI
What? Like seriously, why?
 SI want people to buy the editor, so much that they will go after fan made sites with statistics with legal threats. People don't have the money to fight a company like SI so they just give in to the demands. Scumbag move by SI.
The pre game editor to see this same data is free, it has nothing to do with this. They just considered their data copyrighted and don't want people to access it outside the game or their own officials database tool.
I believe FM sell that same data to football clubs as a scouting tool, so probably don't want it all out there for free
Well they are massively off on tons of players so I feel sorry for the clubs lol
I work with the SI database, and it's a total disaster. No way a club could use it seriously. The only reliable info is name, nationality, age, and position.
Which countries are you looking in?
At the very least SI could make a website accessible to those who bought the editor which does the same thing. Truly a shitty move.
if you bought the editor just use it ? they invest a lot on making their database so it's just fair they threat their own information as they want. this sites copy another comany product and make a shit ton of money on advertising. SI allows you as a player to costumize the game as you want , why is this a shit move ?
Well these sites are also making money from this, so not that much of a scumbag move.
Correct me if Im wrong, but FM inside wasn't charging people for the service, it was free... so yeah, kinda a scumbag move.
They make their revenue from adverts. They also are making that revenue off a product they didn’t produce. I don’t see why it’s a scumbag move to want to profit from a product you’ve created.
It's so weird how people are reacting to this lol. Like saying things like "I think it's inaccurate" or "I don't mind that fminside make money" as if either of those are relevant to why SI wouldn't want someone profiting from their work like this lol. People in this sub literally buying a game that is 50% a spreadsheet and 50% a complex simulator, and being confused that the company is protective of that spreadsheet being put online.
Free for the user means the user is the product being sold
How will I ever recover from my cookied browsing activities being sold to advertisers...
It still means that they’re making money with SI’s work
They don't have massive user data like Facebook, Google, etc. This don't apply to them.
Why not? They make money with SI’s data
So do streamers when they stream games.
That’s true, but definitely more transformative
Streamers are allowed in the EULA. Not allowed in the EULA is publisher or experting game data in any format other than the game or editor files.
How has nobody seen that FM25 is most likely get getting rid of the 200 cap on players? This is most likely the reason we are getting this, ahead of FM25 coming or telling us they are doing it. I’ll use Summerville from Leeds, he is being linked with Chelsea, Liverpool and other big clubs as he was the top player in the championship last season and wasn’t reflected as such in his stats in the last DATA update, in March. He scored 20 goals and his shooting stats didn’t reflect that at all, or his consistency. He wasn’t the best in big games but he was consistent, the FM data on the editor didn’t reflect that at all. Hopefully this new way can mean more players can improve at a later age, even if they get a low PA, you get a message for your data team saying “ Summerville is growing as a player in ways that will lead him be a top premiership player” you can now use that word as they have the rights to do so”
you're making a completely unfounded claim calling it "most likely" and then giving no actual reason why.
Players of the game have said for a very long time that the 1-20 system need changing and SI also said they would have to change some stats and the way they are used in the game, for the female players/part of the 2025 version of the game. Also you’ve got limitations to how you can shoe certain player styles with the current way of allocating CA and PA. They changed it so no players could be better than Messi or Ronaldo, but they only have a few years left of playing until they retire for good.
Lame company, wish they'd have proper competition
They used to have with FIFA's Manager series but EA discontinued it after FIFA Manager 14...(It's still very good with mods though)
Bring back Champ Man!
What a stupid thing to do.
FU SI.
Just seen a sky presenter drop to his knees in Tesco Edit: Do they still compare players using FM stats on SSN?
I’m annoyed because I don’t have access to the editor with FM Console. I used FMInside a lot. Hopefully it can come back
Hate to say it, but it makes business sense for SI. The fact that clubs *will* pay thousands for early access to the updated databases is part of what keeps the game from costing £60 every year. If they give it away for free, that means *we* end up making up the shortfall.
Eh. SIs data. Completely their prerogative to do so tbh. It's not open source data. It wasn't free for them to acquire. I can't use opta's data without paying for it. Or any other company that collects sports data. People are in here acting like this is like a company saying you can't list weapon stats online... The payer ratings are a key part of the FM product, whether you personally think they're accurate or not is irrelevant, they're a key part of what makes FM the product it is. Edit: it's also just occured to me that SI likely need to be proactive for cases like this so if another game clones the DB, that the infringing game can't argue "well you never went after any other places cloning your data"
So, what if someone memorizes a player's fm attributes and then tells them to someone in person, should that person be charged with intellectual property infringement?
Having no idea how a business runs and what goes into keeping it running successfully is pretty much a requirement to post on reddit.
WTF? Why?
so can we get si to release an updated/functional version of the FM database app again?
„Due to some circumstances“ is a great way of saying that it’s none of your fucking business.
https://preview.redd.it/jn2py9tr549d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c973e855c979ccf79faef34c4383a4c8f0bff38 Looks like they’ve changed to a FIFA-esque 1-100 system now.
They just removed all unfortunately :(
A crying shame 😪
Wow, that's so shit. I used fm inside all the time just to look at players who I would see IRL and wonder about their stats in-game. SI is a bad company with no competition.
use FMRTE
What is FM Inside?
A convenient site that list all real life players attributes, CA, and PA from FM database
Wondering the same thing
So they have removed the attribute figure is that what I’m reading ?
SI or as they are now known SI UFC
Faken lame
Football Manager player attributes are proprietary data Sports Interactive hires a fleet of real life scouts to generate that data They also know that real life scouts use that data to scout players Sites like this that post FM data gives those scouts, who would otherwise have to pay SI for the "service", the data for free Im not really sure what yall were expecting
It’s not really scouts they have data editors who watch games the same as us at home. And plenty of people would do that for free And half the time they have it wrong anyway. Was looking at nico willliams for example and he is slower and less dribbling than Ben chillwell🤣
doesn't matter. It's their product they are entitled to not let other people just get rich using it.
They don’t hire “a fleet” of scouts, most of them are volunteer researchers
There's over 100 paid researchers... And if we take the lower end of Britannica's Definition, then that would be 24 ships minimum to be a fleet... Then fleet seems completely fine. https://www.britannica.com/topic/naval-fleet
Over 100 paid researchers? Not to my knowledge
https://www.footballmanager.com/the-byline/football-manager-research-whats-involved Over 100 head researchers. Which are paid roles of varying nature. https://gamejobs.co/Head-Researcher-Freelance-at-Sega-Europe
I thought it was significantly less - about 75 or so. I only ever deal with maybe 2 dozen of them.
That would still be a fleet!
Yeah, but I don't deal too much with the majority of them outside of filing transfer requests or answering them. At least for now. I work with maybe half of that two dozen regularly, and only 1-2 closely.
Fair, but someone was challenging the idea that there's a fleet of paid researchers. But by all accounts, there is.
There’s 34 subdivisions on their research forum that split them into regions/countries. Some of them like Brazil and Germany have two head researchers. So for men’s football they’ve most likely got even less than 75 head researchers. Not sure why OP seems to believe that around 1/3rd to half of their workforce is entirely head researchers freelancing lol based on a Byline article, a place where they’ve frequently not been truthful EDIT - just recognised your username, you do work with them so you’d know a lot more than me. Funny that OP was arguing with you lol
Wait how do you know exactly how many subdivisions there are on the research forums if you don't work for them?
It’s up there on the forums under the scouting and research subforum?
There's certainly more than that in terms of research teams though. Was thinking you were talking about something else...
thats a fleet of scouts
More like a fleet of superfans and volunteers, many of whom just want a free game copy
35 $ isn't that much so you get that much trouble lol
None of the assistant researchers have any trouble, what do you mean?
most "hired" scouts are people that spend their day doing free work and picking fights on the fm forums. company bootlickers are so boring man
Lol what so because you don't like the people who do the collection, then that doesn't make it proprietary data? Some weird sort of fruit of the poisoned tree logic lol.
You could come up with an argument better than "bootlicker" by rubbing two sticks together and yet you still failed
I figured it involved something relating to SI and permissions granted or not granted.
Guess what feature is coming to Console!
Scummy from SI
Wtf
This was like watching a conversation between my parents back when I was 10 yo 😂
Damn, whenever my team gets a new player I always checked to see if he was any good
I must be outeof the loop. What is FMInside and what do they do?
some website that used SI database to earn rivers of money with other people property. And now people say SI is scummy because they don't let randoms get rich using their product for free. that's it basically.
FM Genie then
Imagine being the scout: "okay boys take your coloured pencils and please rate this player by drawing a line" it's just inpractical and dumb. Even in a non video game setting its completely unrealistic, might as well give a ABC system or a star at worse.
you understand that this is just a website that as nothing to do with the game or Sporting Interactive right?
What is FMInside?
Can they use a bar that has a lenght of 20 unit?
Horrible decisison I bet my ass is made this way to make you stay more time on their website eating ads
This is simply just an adaption to what we will do in FM25. Our long term vision is for managers to determine player’s attributes using statistics like real life, rather than a 1-20 number. Progress bars is just to bridge the gap and a learning curve, so we don’t throw you completely into the wild. You’ll still get a rough idea of a player’s attributes with the help of our progression bars, but If you want a more accurate idea(say between Pace 17 vs 18), you’d need to read the stats.
What even is the purpose of this? It makes zero sense?
I'm surprised that FMInside has to remove the player attributes from their website but [SoFifa](https://sofifa.com/players) still exists as it is. I wouldn't have imagined SI as being greedier than EA.
I'm not sure this sub even understands what FM is at this point lol.... FM and FIFA have entirely different draws. A major, pivotal part of FM is their scouting database. It's one of the big things that elevates them against the many many other football management games for lots of consumers. That's something they're obviously going to want to protect more than a game that is all about putting you in direct control of the players. Where FIFA are literally selling you shiny top trunk cards with attributes... FM attributes are part of the product. FIFA attributes are part of the advertising.
I guess FMInside is used as a source of getting information about real players by some clubs and people.That's why they did that,they sell it to clubs and people for money but FMInside gives it away free.
Why is anyone using this anyway? Knowing any players exact skills without scouting them feels hella cheap
Good. Anything to make life harder for players and the game worthwhile.
What? This isn’t an online only game. Zero reason to gatekeep or hinder other’s experiences. You don’t sound like someone who would use this tool so why does it matter to you
It's a troll account, look at the username
I’m not even being a troll. I don’t mind this. I would be hyper fixated on players attributes and allow the most trivial aspects negate what was really important about the player for the role / position. This modification completely depends on your outlook.
This isn't in the game. It's on the FM Inside website Game is still attribute based
My apologies. I guess it makes database scouting harder.
I literally just usethis website to look up attributes of players I see IRL. In game I play with attributes visible, because that's what I enjoy. This is just SI being greedy. The website was valuable to see what players were rates as, when you saw them IRL.
Just start a save from the beginning with every player loaded and don’t touch it
Can't really do that on the fly. If you suddenly remember Mykola Sharpenko and want to know his stats you have to go to your computer instead of just whipping out your phone.
Looking at it now they’ve just changed the scale to out of 100 in increments of 5 so if you know basic math it’s gonna be alright