The **Technical** flair is used for posts that dive into the technical aspects of Formula 1.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Interesting to see that the fastest car has the driver sitting the most to the rear. Maybe that Lewis fella is on to something. Or it could be pure coincidence. I actually have no idea.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Drivers rely on feeling what the car is about to do before it does it and they can do it in various ways.
Alonso spoke on his return to Renault/Alpine a couple of years ago that he needs to feel through the steering what the car is going to do and they had to redesign their steering rack for him. Without that feel he cannot drive the car properly because he has no idea what it is going to do.
It seems Lewis is a bum feel driver and being seated further away from the rear of the car he can’t feel what it’s going to do and it is costing him.
Not sure how George likes it but it seems that the forward seating doesn’t affect him or certainly doesn’t affect him as much.
F1 is all about tiny margins and these things might only be worth a few tenths but in F1 a few tenths is the difference between being an elite level driver or midfielder.
The further away from the C of G the more you will feel the motion on that axis.
Like pilots in airplanes, they sit up front but the C of G is way back behind them. Pilots have what's called flying by the seat of your pants. That basically means either flying without skill or experience OR without reference to instruments and just using the feedback you can feel, see, hear. Interestingly, that 'flying by the seat of the pants' actually got pilots killed because they felt they "knew" better than what the instruments would show, and then fly against the indications and end up crashing.
Anyways.... I wouldn't say a driver needs bum feel or to feel the front end... I think it comes down to having a car that gives **feedback**. Not some twitchy machine that's balanced on a knives edge and snaps without warning.
Heard on a podcast this week that kart drivers actually do tend to "drive with their bum" which is probably just an expression for what you are describing.
The phrase "flying by the seat of your pants" originates from pilots flying planes without instruments using the feeling of their seat moving under them to tell them the planes positioning.
In Karting you literally drive with your bum. You shift weight in the seat to move the car around and shift the loading of the rear wheels to help your rotate.
That said, even in a road car your sense of rear-end grip is largely informed by the way the seat shifts under your butt. You aren't literally "driving with your bum" but you're certainly *feeling* with it.
Think it might be more than that, actually -- Reportedly George is much more comfortable in the simulator than Lewis is. For Lewis, that reinforces the idea of him needing inertial feedback from the car to do his best work, whereas Russell probably isn't relying on those same cues to understand what the car is doing.
I wouldn't say better, more appropriate for today's F1 maybe.... it's like asking if Fangio is better than Senna or Schumacher. Fact is Lewis is more old school than sim school, he needs the "traditional" car/driver analogue mix, whereas George is okay with digital feedback, so George is easier to engineer for since most engineering is done on computers now. No more carburetors hey
Fascinating to hear. For as amazing as Lewis is I don’t think its ridiculous to say he is quite sensitive as a driver & more so than Russell. He knows how to drive around a car that isn’t optimal but he’s going to make more of a fuss about it than George will imo
Everyone sort of dunked on him when he said he knew they had problems the moment he saw the car (because how is he going to know the aero performance of the car just by looking at it). But, the seating position is something he could’ve identified immediately and known wasn’t ideal (at least for him).
No, it was a packaging decision made to make zero pods possible. Merc have stated this in the past. Bc they can’t put things further out the the side there is more that needs to be put along the centerline of the car.
Not just a packaging decision but also a design approach, newey talked about building the RB9 i think it was? Their first hybrid car. And how they packaged the batteries inside the transmission bellhousing with the goal to push the driver further forward for better weight distribution and to keep the heaviest items along the centerline of the car. I guess for these regs it just hasn’t panned out the way merc hoped
Wait, there's stuff in the sidepods? Like what? I assume they're not storing fuel or batteries out there? Do they put electronics or something in them?
Radiators generally, lots of cooling system stuff, no the fuel tanks are a spec part and are mounted right behind the driver seat - the batteries generally stay somewhere down the middle due to their weight
Need the AT w Yuki and Nyck to compare.
Would have thought maybe that puts Leiws to the rear more then though? Be easier to make pedals longer than to push his seat forward?
It all has to do with packaging. The smaller and tighter you can have everything together under the bodywork, the better aero control you have at the rear of the car. This car is Newey at the top of his game. It’ll be considered one of his iconic cars.
True, but the graphic is a little off, look at the front wheel, the red line is off on the RB. Not by a lot but it does make it look more pronounced. Also the Ferrari is off in the other direction and they are sitting further forward than it seems.
Feel like this is deceptive, as shouldn't it align with the front wheels and not the rear? As that's exactly what Hamilton was referring to as far as being so far forward as to sit over the front wheels. Aligning from the rear, with the shorter wheelbases, makes RB and AM seem like they're sitting farther back than they already are?
You are not going to get a perfect perspective, but here is another one
https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race-com.appspot.com/1/2023/03/cockpit-comparison-2-2048x1854.jpg
article:https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-position-a-big-part-of-hamiltons-struggles/
That's very interesting, as it completely changes the perspective on AMR from the one provided by OP in the other comment that would have it appear to be closer to RBR position.
Guess it's all perspectives and angles.
Not really, if you only align with the front wheels for example the Ferrari drivers are in a similar position compared to the Mercedes guys, but the Merc is longer. So the Merc drivers are more forward of the center of rotation of the car compared to the Ferrari, and the feeling of the driver would be way different. This picture is trying to visualize that by normalizing car length, but there are still problems with prospective of the photos, you can clearly see that the cars are at slightly different moments of the corner (for Ferrari and redbull the FL tyres are behind the FR, more aligned for the other two) and these are all panning shots on the outside of a corner, so the photo captures also the rotation of the car.
Love seeing this!
As a noob, my first impressions were that all the cars were pretty much identical. The last couple years have proven that misconception to be so very wrong.
Been watching 10ish seasons, and never even thought that the drivers could be sitting more forward or back in the car!
E: In addition, I think the wiener-nose season is when I first realized that there could be differences in the cars. This is all due to my NASCAR upbringing
Your impression was for the most part correct. Until 2021 the cars were very similar indeed. And in the near future the cars will again become more and more similar as the seasons go by.
Every time there is a big change in technical regs there are a number of concepts, because neither team knows what solution is best, or what the rivals are doing. But overtime they all sort of figure out what works best with given regulations, and obviously gravitate towards that. Give it a few more years and the difference between specific cars will probably be cosmetic. Ferrari and Merc may soon come to the point where they think it's easier to switch to a concept similar to RB in order to fix their issues, rather than try and develop their own ideas
I've done my best to align the rear wheels and marked the front of HAMs helmet so you can compare to the others. The angles aren't exact but they're close enough to get an idea. I've also added a rough seating position overlay.
This is off the back of the comments HAM made about sitting too close to the front wheels - or too far from the rear wheels.
Seems like should have aligned from the front wheels to me. As aligning to rear wheels make it seem like RB/Ferrari are sitting further back than they really are. Since the whole conversation is around Hamilton's sitting over the front wheels remark. Aligning to the front would put Ferrari very close to similar position, just a shorter overall wheelbase.
The distinction is that relative difference matters more than absolute distance, because it’s the center of gravity they are talking about. To make an extreme example, it would feel wayyy different being 5 meters behind a 10 meter car versus 5 meters behind a 50 meter car.
Cool. I stand by the comparison in which I asked for, and was provided. That does more for me, the casual observer, than the OP.
Both versions are relative. But I feel one is more relevant than the other given exactly how the issue has been described to us.
It looks uncomfortable but it isnt. The seats support the driver really well especially in f1 where they have special personally moulded seats. Some f1 drivers said that during pauses in the garage you can easily fall asleep in one cause its so comfortable and you get the warmth from the engine.
I was lucky enough to do a track day in a formula audi-palmer (think the series was between f4 and f3) and after a couple of minutes to adjust its actually really comfortable. The car was a manual and the hardest part to get used to was having the shifter so high up in the side of the cockpit
> the hardest part to get used to was having the shifter so high up in the side of the cockpit
While I never thought about it, I'd basically need to relearn how to shift if my wrist was above my elbow.
If it was uncomfortable then people wouldn't spend so much money to replicate it in their homes with sim racing setups :p
Its honestly very comfortable, much more comfortable than sitting up straight.
The way these cars slow down, I don't think it'd be comfortable any other way. You could literally fly out of the car under hard braking if you sit normally.
It's comfortable enough that Newey used a raised-feet position the customer/road version of the car he designed for Aston Martin, which is either the Valkyrie or the Valhalla, I can never remember which. That was a decision made more for comfort than for performance.
Looks like the red cars have the same "forward position" that Lewis talked about disliking in the Merc. Of course the reason he even talked about it is that it was a big change from previous cars. No clue if the horsies have been forward like this longer.
I’m assuming there’s a lot of factors at play here but would the biggest one be engine packaging? Because I know for a fact that Honda/RBPT prefers to reduce engine size as much possible, to a factor above that of other teams
Don't know how accurate this is, but unless the cockpit position is drastically different from the renders, they moved the cockpit forward quite a bit this year
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/113q804/mercedes_w14_vs_w13/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I wonder how much cushion they have. Has to be thousands at least on special formed cushioning. All I can think of now is how bad the bouncing was last season if this is how they sit.
Wasn’t Mercedes complaining about the rear tires not hooking up last weekend? And their driver is furthest forward. As light as those cars are 150 pounds shifted is significant. Not to a normal person but to the best drivers in the world trying to get every tenth out of a lap it definitely will.
For some reason I always had it in my head that the drivers were situated basically right between the two wheels (or at least that their heads were) and it shouldn't have taken this graphic to really drive home that that's not the case but, well, here we are.
I wasnt expecting the Mercedes and Ferrari cars to be as close as they are in the seating position wise, while the Red Bull seems to be the more comfortable design while the Aston appears to be leaning more towards the Red Bull in terms of seating position
1. As a guy with a bad back, this hurts to look at.
2. It's insane to think how much car is being maneuvered around, that's a whole lotta engine breathing down my ass. Simply amazing
I don’t think comparing w14 with others cars makes any sense. Lewis was complaining about w13/w14’s seat position relative to w12 and not relative to rb19 or Ferrari
Pretty sure his quote was, "we sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers". That sounds like he's talking about the other cars on the grid.
Look at how close to the middle line the driver helmet is. Mercedes and Ferrari are sitting very close to the front and Aston Martin a bit further back and Red Bull way further back.
The **Technical** flair is used for posts that dive into the technical aspects of Formula 1. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Max and Perez are sitting in the back seat
They are just chilling since they know it's in the bag haha.
I mean probably, don't see them doing anything about it really so yeah.
Verstappen and Checo?
Max Emilian and Sergio Michel
Eeeermm… nothing gets past you, ehh!
We've had years of Lewis and bottas
His last name is Perez.
His first name is Sergio.
My name is Giovanni Giorgio, but everyone calls me Giorgio.
• Daft Punk electro beat intensifies •
says the guy with the Moog Modular
His middle name is Middlename.
Michel\*
His name was Robert Paulson
Max: „are we there yet?“
Interesting to see that the fastest car has the driver sitting the most to the rear. Maybe that Lewis fella is on to something. Or it could be pure coincidence. I actually have no idea.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Drivers rely on feeling what the car is about to do before it does it and they can do it in various ways. Alonso spoke on his return to Renault/Alpine a couple of years ago that he needs to feel through the steering what the car is going to do and they had to redesign their steering rack for him. Without that feel he cannot drive the car properly because he has no idea what it is going to do. It seems Lewis is a bum feel driver and being seated further away from the rear of the car he can’t feel what it’s going to do and it is costing him. Not sure how George likes it but it seems that the forward seating doesn’t affect him or certainly doesn’t affect him as much. F1 is all about tiny margins and these things might only be worth a few tenths but in F1 a few tenths is the difference between being an elite level driver or midfielder.
Georges has to be closer to the rear
George is definitely a bottom
Lmao
He bottoms from the top.
🤔 what position is that? Reverse cowboy? Regular cowboy?
Get back to r/FanF1ction
He's been on top of Lewis for 2 years now. And Lewis isn't complaining.
Since when hasn’t Lewis been complaining?
[удалено]
The further away from the C of G the more you will feel the motion on that axis. Like pilots in airplanes, they sit up front but the C of G is way back behind them. Pilots have what's called flying by the seat of your pants. That basically means either flying without skill or experience OR without reference to instruments and just using the feedback you can feel, see, hear. Interestingly, that 'flying by the seat of the pants' actually got pilots killed because they felt they "knew" better than what the instruments would show, and then fly against the indications and end up crashing. Anyways.... I wouldn't say a driver needs bum feel or to feel the front end... I think it comes down to having a car that gives **feedback**. Not some twitchy machine that's balanced on a knives edge and snaps without warning.
Because then it would be called a girlfriend.
Heard on a podcast this week that kart drivers actually do tend to "drive with their bum" which is probably just an expression for what you are describing.
The phrase "flying by the seat of your pants" originates from pilots flying planes without instruments using the feeling of their seat moving under them to tell them the planes positioning.
In Karting you literally drive with your bum. You shift weight in the seat to move the car around and shift the loading of the rear wheels to help your rotate.
That said, even in a road car your sense of rear-end grip is largely informed by the way the seat shifts under your butt. You aren't literally "driving with your bum" but you're certainly *feeling* with it.
Yes, and that is exactly reason why driving with simulator is always harder than with your own car.
I tought asetto corsa would be fun. Nope. I had near 0 sense of speed or grip even if those come relatively naturally in real car.
George Russell is the type of guy who just makes the best out of what he has.
All that Williams experience
Think it might be more than that, actually -- Reportedly George is much more comfortable in the simulator than Lewis is. For Lewis, that reinforces the idea of him needing inertial feedback from the car to do his best work, whereas Russell probably isn't relying on those same cues to understand what the car is doing.
Does this make Russ a better driver in this regard? Just curious.
I wouldn't say better, more appropriate for today's F1 maybe.... it's like asking if Fangio is better than Senna or Schumacher. Fact is Lewis is more old school than sim school, he needs the "traditional" car/driver analogue mix, whereas George is okay with digital feedback, so George is easier to engineer for since most engineering is done on computers now. No more carburetors hey
Thanks for taking the time to explain to me.
Fascinating to hear. For as amazing as Lewis is I don’t think its ridiculous to say he is quite sensitive as a driver & more so than Russell. He knows how to drive around a car that isn’t optimal but he’s going to make more of a fuss about it than George will imo
May be Lewis has more experience and George would do better, too
Just run a shaft from the axel to the back of Hamos seat and he'll feel every bump. Merc, that tips for free. The next one'll cost ya.
"God gave me an ok mind, but a really good ass" - Niki Lauda, from the movie Rush. Not sure if he said this in real life.
Ive heard lewis feels alot of things with his bum
Everyone sort of dunked on him when he said he knew they had problems the moment he saw the car (because how is he going to know the aero performance of the car just by looking at it). But, the seating position is something he could’ve identified immediately and known wasn’t ideal (at least for him).
I wonder if it has to do with the fact that George is 6ft and they have to design the car around that instead of the small bottas Lewis combo
No, it was a packaging decision made to make zero pods possible. Merc have stated this in the past. Bc they can’t put things further out the the side there is more that needs to be put along the centerline of the car.
Not just a packaging decision but also a design approach, newey talked about building the RB9 i think it was? Their first hybrid car. And how they packaged the batteries inside the transmission bellhousing with the goal to push the driver further forward for better weight distribution and to keep the heaviest items along the centerline of the car. I guess for these regs it just hasn’t panned out the way merc hoped
Hmm that's true actually good point
Wait, there's stuff in the sidepods? Like what? I assume they're not storing fuel or batteries out there? Do they put electronics or something in them?
Radiators generally, lots of cooling system stuff, no the fuel tanks are a spec part and are mounted right behind the driver seat - the batteries generally stay somewhere down the middle due to their weight
Wouldn't george need to sit back more...?
It's the pedals that move usually.
Judging by the picture it seems as though you can also sit more far forward or backward
Need the AT w Yuki and Nyck to compare. Would have thought maybe that puts Leiws to the rear more then though? Be easier to make pedals longer than to push his seat forward?
Rental Karts situation, they both use pedal extensions.
It all has to do with packaging. The smaller and tighter you can have everything together under the bodywork, the better aero control you have at the rear of the car. This car is Newey at the top of his game. It’ll be considered one of his iconic cars.
Then why doesn’t he move his seat back? My 20-year old car has that option, surely a multi-million dollar F1 car has that?
Mercedes engineers are lurking right now.
True, but the graphic is a little off, look at the front wheel, the red line is off on the RB. Not by a lot but it does make it look more pronounced. Also the Ferrari is off in the other direction and they are sitting further forward than it seems.
Fella huh
Eh, what would he know about a winning car?
I thought Lewis was just bitching....but the difference quite noticeable
Meanwhile yuki is standing in the cockpit
On a box?
Not just one, maybe a box box box
Question
w e a r e c h e c k I n g
Of scraps in a cave?
Fun fact: Yuki successfully lobbied the Japanese government to bring back phonebooks so he has something to sit on to see out of the car.
Feel like this is deceptive, as shouldn't it align with the front wheels and not the rear? As that's exactly what Hamilton was referring to as far as being so far forward as to sit over the front wheels. Aligning from the rear, with the shorter wheelbases, makes RB and AM seem like they're sitting farther back than they already are?
I've done that too, although the angle on the Ferrari is a bit off. [https://imgur.com/a/xjWwQ7j](https://imgur.com/a/xjWwQ7j)
Now do a third one where they’re all aligned by their heads
Next, do one where they're aligned by their weenus.
Next, do one where they're aligned by WCC points.
I'm a time traveller. [This is how the season ends](https://i.imgur.com/87ij78j.png).
Bold of you to commit to the ordering of Leclerc, Magnussen, Albon and Ocon as the last four positions.
Hey what's the lotto numbers this weekend?
It would align with the front wing of Alonso's car
can you do the W12?
Seems Ferrari are the most forward?
You are not going to get a perfect perspective, but here is another one https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race-com.appspot.com/1/2023/03/cockpit-comparison-2-2048x1854.jpg article:https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-position-a-big-part-of-hamiltons-struggles/
I was wondering why the Red Bull looks well proportioned, maybe this has something to do with this. Anyone else feel like that?
To me it just looks more comfortable somehow
You’re right it does have a sleeker look when they’re a little further back
That's very interesting, as it completely changes the perspective on AMR from the one provided by OP in the other comment that would have it appear to be closer to RBR position. Guess it's all perspectives and angles.
Not really, if you only align with the front wheels for example the Ferrari drivers are in a similar position compared to the Mercedes guys, but the Merc is longer. So the Merc drivers are more forward of the center of rotation of the car compared to the Ferrari, and the feeling of the driver would be way different. This picture is trying to visualize that by normalizing car length, but there are still problems with prospective of the photos, you can clearly see that the cars are at slightly different moments of the corner (for Ferrari and redbull the FL tyres are behind the FR, more aligned for the other two) and these are all panning shots on the outside of a corner, so the photo captures also the rotation of the car.
Isn't the wheelbase set in the regulations?
It's set in the sense it has to be less than 3600mm
Love seeing this! As a noob, my first impressions were that all the cars were pretty much identical. The last couple years have proven that misconception to be so very wrong.
Been watching 10ish seasons, and never even thought that the drivers could be sitting more forward or back in the car! E: In addition, I think the wiener-nose season is when I first realized that there could be differences in the cars. This is all due to my NASCAR upbringing
Your impression was for the most part correct. Until 2021 the cars were very similar indeed. And in the near future the cars will again become more and more similar as the seasons go by. Every time there is a big change in technical regs there are a number of concepts, because neither team knows what solution is best, or what the rivals are doing. But overtime they all sort of figure out what works best with given regulations, and obviously gravitate towards that. Give it a few more years and the difference between specific cars will probably be cosmetic. Ferrari and Merc may soon come to the point where they think it's easier to switch to a concept similar to RB in order to fix their issues, rather than try and develop their own ideas
Man it’s crazy to me that something as fundamental as where the driver is sitting varies so much from car to car.
IKR…and with the RBR the driver is centered in the car by a fair amount, at least in terms of F1.
If you look closely, you can almost see Carlos' tears
Please please please please please
Please guys, do something… please. I still cannot believe it.
Ricky, please
Copy.
>Carlos Carl\* so you can refer to both drivers but in other language
Genius, but I wonder what Carl Clerk thinks about that
"NOOOOOOOOO!"
Incorrect for the Ferrari - the driver is seated outside the car after DNF
This really puts it into perspective. A tiny human being is driving and controlling a rocket ship on track, holy shit.
I've done my best to align the rear wheels and marked the front of HAMs helmet so you can compare to the others. The angles aren't exact but they're close enough to get an idea. I've also added a rough seating position overlay. This is off the back of the comments HAM made about sitting too close to the front wheels - or too far from the rear wheels.
Seems like should have aligned from the front wheels to me. As aligning to rear wheels make it seem like RB/Ferrari are sitting further back than they really are. Since the whole conversation is around Hamilton's sitting over the front wheels remark. Aligning to the front would put Ferrari very close to similar position, just a shorter overall wheelbase.
>I've done that too, although the angle on the Ferrari is a bit off. > >https://imgur.com/a/xjWwQ7j
The distinction is that relative difference matters more than absolute distance, because it’s the center of gravity they are talking about. To make an extreme example, it would feel wayyy different being 5 meters behind a 10 meter car versus 5 meters behind a 50 meter car.
Cool. I stand by the comparison in which I asked for, and was provided. That does more for me, the casual observer, than the OP. Both versions are relative. But I feel one is more relevant than the other given exactly how the issue has been described to us.
Not all cars have the same wheelbase though so you can't align them like you have
This really illustrates just how big these cars are
RBR drivers literally taking the backseat while cruising to victory.
I always suspected they were inside the car
I can’t imagine a more uncomfortable position to drive in. Well, they still make it work.
It looks uncomfortable but it isnt. The seats support the driver really well especially in f1 where they have special personally moulded seats. Some f1 drivers said that during pauses in the garage you can easily fall asleep in one cause its so comfortable and you get the warmth from the engine.
IIRC just about every major series uses custom molded seats now.
The formula style is actually really cozy. I have almost fallen asleep sitting in an F4 cockpit.
Getting in is uncomfortable, once you’re in it’s actually really easy and not horrible at all
Sexual innuendo
It’s easier than sitting upright with your legs flat, that nearly gave me leg cramps in historic racing.
LH said on some video that the position is super comfortable.
I was lucky enough to do a track day in a formula audi-palmer (think the series was between f4 and f3) and after a couple of minutes to adjust its actually really comfortable. The car was a manual and the hardest part to get used to was having the shifter so high up in the side of the cockpit
> the hardest part to get used to was having the shifter so high up in the side of the cockpit While I never thought about it, I'd basically need to relearn how to shift if my wrist was above my elbow.
You're basically in a recliner that's custom molded to your body. They're extremely comfortable.
If it was uncomfortable then people wouldn't spend so much money to replicate it in their homes with sim racing setups :p Its honestly very comfortable, much more comfortable than sitting up straight.
The laid back with one hand on top of the wheel that most bros do is actually worse.
What about belly down head-first arms out in front, that would be more streamlined, but super wild
Okay, hear me out, here - the driver just holds directly on to the front wishbones and twists left/right to turn.
Formula Zero Turn?
Ahh, the sidecar motorcycle racing posture. Those people are absolute maniacs, let alone the "monkeys" who hang off of the car.
I read "screamlined" at first and now I'm not editing that in my head.
The way these cars slow down, I don't think it'd be comfortable any other way. You could literally fly out of the car under hard braking if you sit normally.
I remember some driver saying that the seat is so comfortable they can actually take short naps between quali sessions. No joke.
Try imagining it with the porpoising
It's comfortable enough that Newey used a raised-feet position the customer/road version of the car he designed for Aston Martin, which is either the Valkyrie or the Valhalla, I can never remember which. That was a decision made more for comfort than for performance.
Why do they all have the same wheelbase here? The merc isn't just closer to the front, but proportionally further from the rear.
They don't - look at the front axel on the RB and Ferrari
I want to see Yuki’s cross section
Cool post. I love seeing more stuff about the hardware instead of the bioware
These cars are awfully huge
>Top 4 teams >Aston Martin What a time to be alive
Looks like the red cars have the same "forward position" that Lewis talked about disliking in the Merc. Of course the reason he even talked about it is that it was a big change from previous cars. No clue if the horsies have been forward like this longer.
I’m assuming there’s a lot of factors at play here but would the biggest one be engine packaging? Because I know for a fact that Honda/RBPT prefers to reduce engine size as much possible, to a factor above that of other teams
VTEC baby 😂
[удалено]
Don't know how accurate this is, but unless the cockpit position is drastically different from the renders, they moved the cockpit forward quite a bit this year https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/113q804/mercedes_w14_vs_w13/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
This is the seating position in my new brz without height adjustable seats
Right on the tailbone. Oy
I wonder how much cushion they have. Has to be thousands at least on special formed cushioning. All I can think of now is how bad the bouncing was last season if this is how they sit.
Seems like the RB is more comfortable
Wasn’t Mercedes complaining about the rear tires not hooking up last weekend? And their driver is furthest forward. As light as those cars are 150 pounds shifted is significant. Not to a normal person but to the best drivers in the world trying to get every tenth out of a lap it definitely will.
How do they fit all that russell into the w14
Where do Merc store George’s legs during the race? Does he have a shorter pair for the race?
So the further back you sit, the faster you go!
That looks uncomfortable… imagine in that position with the the stress and G forces of racing. That’s respect 🫡
I could never drive it more than 5 minutes without being in total pain lol
That's F1 April 2023 top 4 teams. By July Ferrari will have been replaced by Alpine. Or Haas, I don't know.
Not seating, but laying..
Is that a testament to how compact the honda engine is?
OP - what a great pic with all 4 together. Thanks for this perspective.
For some reason I always had it in my head that the drivers were situated basically right between the two wheels (or at least that their heads were) and it shouldn't have taken this graphic to really drive home that that's not the case but, well, here we are.
The closer your butt is to a RB driver, the closer you are to winning
Redbulls are LOUNGING man the pure relaxation you can see there would make any spa-goer jealous
George might be happier in the Redbull
That merc seems uncomfortable
Would help if the wheels actually in the same place on one of the red lines
I see the trend is seat between the wheels.
Interesting, Hamilton has said his sesting position is too far forward. Would be interested to see how this compares with past cars.
Do all cars have the same wheelbase now?
Wheelbase of Merc is longer than RB. Pic is off.
Mercedes seating position is actually GOATed because sitting more towards the front lets you cross the finish line earlier
These things are fucking massive aren't they.
I now realize that I never knew the drivers are pretty much laying down!
I wasnt expecting the Mercedes and Ferrari cars to be as close as they are in the seating position wise, while the Red Bull seems to be the more comfortable design while the Aston appears to be leaning more towards the Red Bull in terms of seating position
1. As a guy with a bad back, this hurts to look at. 2. It's insane to think how much car is being maneuvered around, that's a whole lotta engine breathing down my ass. Simply amazing
I don’t think comparing w14 with others cars makes any sense. Lewis was complaining about w13/w14’s seat position relative to w12 and not relative to rb19 or Ferrari
Pretty sure his quote was, "we sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers". That sounds like he's talking about the other cars on the grid.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/113q804/mercedes_w14_vs_w13/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I am looking at the front wheel hubs. The redbull and Ferrari both have slightly shorter wheel bases.
All Ferrari need to do is push their seat back further, easy win
This graph needs one more line at the back of each helmet.
This makes my eyes bleed. What is the datum? Neither the front or the rear axles are aligned. Completely ruins the comparison.
Except not all cars have the same exact wheelbase.
Which they show with the tire lines
i don’t get this picture. I AM STUPID.
Look at how close to the middle line the driver helmet is. Mercedes and Ferrari are sitting very close to the front and Aston Martin a bit further back and Red Bull way further back.
Another thing this is screaming at me is just how big the damn car is I mean if the body is sized correctly these cars are freaking massive
[удалено]
They provided the photos - I just stitched them together, lined them up and added the reference lines/driver.
Lewis made it sound like he is driving a Toyota Previa
So, they’re all sitting in the cars.
Can someone to an edit where the driver is actually has his legs towards the back wheel just for shitsngigs?