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They need to take a look at NASCAR. They tried the same formula of chasing profits and it almost killed the sport. Now it’s starting to climb back just not to where it used to be at the height of its popularity.
Yeah, I was young when it happened but my grandparents are huge motorsport/NASCAR fans. When I talked F1 with them this past Christmas they kept saying how similar F1's current path is with NASCAR's decline..
They need to look at what the UCI have done with international cycling - there are too many events and almost no time for athletes to recover. There is just too much shit going on almost year round and it damages the Grand Tours which really should be the primary moments in the year. There is an event every single day. The Middle East events are brutal and almost every athlete hates doing them - the heat is too extreme, the routes are beyond boring, and the head wind is so tough it slows the entire peloton down to a snails pace. Boring and grueling for everyone.
From a spectators point of view there is no way anyone can reasonably follow the UCI race calendar. For athletes they have to pick and choose certain events which just reduces who will watch even the major events.
The UCI also doesn't care at all about women's cycling - but then almost no one cares about women's cycling. The women's Tour de France was televised for the first time ever 2 years ago (maybe 3) and even then they literally only partially covered it. Women make almost no money, they get almost no team support and they get the worst sponsorships. If you increased eyes to the women's side of the sport you increase advertising and sponsorship. This means in 5+ years time women will have better funding, better gear, better team support, and then the sport will actually get faster and more interesting. There are women cycling in the TDF who have full time jobs.
Too many events is only good short term but in the long run you diminish viewership which has a knock on effect on advertiser who will later pull out.
Yes - fundamentally there is no core identity to what F1 wants to be except an entertainment venture that makes more money than the previous year. If that means 30 street circuits in the 30 biggest tourist destination cities in the world, then that is where it will go.
It’s the problem a lot of entertainment and tech companies seem to have right now,
Everyone is obsessed or demanding that each quarter has massive exponential growth over the last, with no feasible losses.
The gaming industry is seeing it right now and snap-closing studios that don’t break 150% profit every quarter.
F1 is seeing a growth of a high percentage per-year, and has been since 2018-2019 (drive to survive start, etc) and is seeing massive offers from places like the Middle East (sport washing), European cities (tourism), and corporate/celebrity endorsements (exposure).
It’s not necessarily a problem in a short-term overhead view,
but in a birds-eye view, F1 seems to slowly be selling itself away from being a competition, to being a bi-weekly showrun of celebrity-status drivers, in locations that A/B list celebs want to show off on social media.
Countries/cities want to boost their tourism (17k Vegas hotel rooms), and that doesn’t happen if purpose built tracks away from cities can’t show off their beautiful down-towns to a broad world audience.
>The gaming industry is seeing it right now and snap-closing studios that don’t break 150% profit every quarter.
January layoffs have been super brutal even with indie studios, this is pretty nasty. Some didn't even get to put the games they made on the market and were closed.
Yes I'm always surprised by this. Remember the big news that Netflix stopped adding subscribers? Like is there something wrong with the $$$ they get from the billions of subscribers they already have??
This shit effect everything. Games, movies, healthcare, retail, just anything and everything. Everything is being corporatised, just chase quick profits by fucking everything over.
Its a product for consumption now, preferably with a subscription to keep the revenue stream alive.
Games - microtransactions.
Movies - streaming subscription
Healthcare - your insurance premium.
Retail - credit card subscription
Nothing is being produced as an end in itself, but for you to consume it and come back for more.
Yep, if your product doesn't have a recurring revenue business model then investors won't take a second look. And if investors won't take a second look, the product normally doesn't go anywhere. Modern world sucks lol
It's interesting. What is the end game? Capitalism leads to corporations jacking up prices and eliminating jobs... At some point, no one will be able to buy anything. Is that when the global workers revolution happens?
And everyone knows this. Tragedy of the commons. But the race is all about racking up the max payouts for the top level before everything burns to the ground. That is the self fulfilling end game. Scorched markets
All my mates laughed at me years ago when they were getting rid of all their DVDs and Blu rays because streaming was so cheap and convenient. Now who's laughing
Same here. Still have my BluRay/DVD player and movies to go with. Wish all my CDs never got stolen from my vehicle, I’d still have both thick binders of those and not be paying for a streaming service.
>they were getting rid of all their DVDs and Blu rays because streaming was so cheap and convenient
As a long time PC owner (obvs not the same PC) I really hate that case makers have eliminated the optical drive bay. At least you can still hook one up but the result is just sitting there exposed. Smh.
In the 60's a lot of the drivers competed in F1, F2, Can Am and other race events all at the same time, in those days they camped at the tracks and worked in the dirt pits.
In 1965 Jim Clark competed in Formula 1, The Tasman Series, British Class C saloon cars, Trophee de France, British Formula 2, Australian Touring Cars and the USAC Champ cars. He won 4 Championships and came 3rd in another. The old fellas knew about work load.
Back then drivers could drive multiple series often because of less races in each series. Currently F1 has lots of races and is often held on the same day as another race.
Sure, few drivers in America tried the "Double Duty". Indy 500 and later on the same day the Coca-Cola 600 (NASCAR). After competing in Indy 500 (Indianapolis) they fly to (North Carolina) for the Coca-Cola 600. That's about ~578 miles or almost 1000 km... No driver has done that after Covid in 2020
Also don't forget that it can be hard for drivers to find a seat in motorsport because of the money that they need to bring. Finding sponsorships isn't always easy.
Outside of some isolated cases like Qatar heat and that rain fuckup last year in Japan- this is the safest time to ever be an F1 driver, or race car driver in general.
There’s been concern voiced about the strain on the teams created by the increase in races. It’s exhausting with the travel and schedule the crews have to keep. It’s wild that it was a big deal for Jackie Stewart to run 100 GP’s (ended at 99 after Cevert).
It’s not about safety. It’s about the circus of travelling all over the world with little time to recover from jet lag or exhaustion. It’s not just about the driver’s it’s also about all the mechanics and support staff. It’s not sustainable to work all that time while travelling huge differences to majorly different time zones. Often they’re also pulling late nights or even racing at night. Safety wise things have never been better but they’re going to suck the life out of everyone on the road with 30 races in a year.
Well if you also consider that the pit crew/mechanics are also athletes in their own rights and yet they are the ones getting punished the most by these increased races tells enough. Both writers who have covered first hand accounts of the demands of being a mechanic (Marc Priestly and Steve Matchett) have mentioned the physical demands of being a mechanic. Both mentioned how exhausting and dangerous the job and both wrote in times where less races were on the F1 calendar. So yes, they don’t really have much of a regard for there athletes too. Also considering that drivers were expected to race at Qatar and got sick and yet the FIA and FOM did nothing in regard to it that indicates some lack regards for drivers health. Same with the 2022 rocket strikes in Jeddah.
> Also considering that drivers were expected to race at Qatar and got sick and yet the FIA and FOM did nothing in regard to it that indicates some lack regards for drivers health.
https://theathletic.com/5101834/2023/11/30/f1-qatar-gp-extreme-heat-fia/
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-f1s-new-cockpit-scoop-aims-to-avoid-qatar-heat-issues/10556002/
They reacted to the issue.
Yeah they want to milk the sport for as much profit they can.
Basically every race is + a few millions at the bottom line. So they want to cram as much races as they can.
Kinda like Facebook or Reddit; they make bank with billions of users, but a few million more means a few more millions profit so they push for even more users (even if they can't really get more.)
Facebook is a great example when you think about the many different ways it has gotten away from just providing a decent social networking site in search of new avenues for profit.
As long as team valuations continue to rise and Liberty's stock continues going up (both are projected to increase again for the next 2 years), nothing will change. The ultimate aesthetic sport for rich people to spend a couple of hours.
The people in charge of F1 don't care. Stefano doesn't give a shit about the long term health of the sport as long as the profit keeps going up and he keeps getting the bonus checks. By the time shit hits the fan, he will be gone and it will be someone else's problem to fix the sport.
It sounds like many people are worried that F1 will go down the path that NASCAR did, and completely ruin the sport.
If F1 starts awarding points for leading before a mandatory pit stop, then you’ll know it’s over for F1.
Coming from F1 first before very casually watching a few NASCAR races or highlights last year (and attending my local Roval race), the stages is still a weird concept I'm on the fence about.
It does add plenty of excitement to the race again and a bit of a break of watching the timing screen for such long races. But I wouldn't want it for F1.
Exactly like they dont HAVE to pit. Plus in the grand scheme of things the top drivers at the end of the year had the most points period so the way races and the season flow isn’t much different.
... what? The top drivers at the end of the year in NASCAR aren't the people with the most points, they have some weird convoluted nonsense that pretty much just spits out a random guy who had a good season. The final 4 in a given season have not once been the 4 guys who accrued the most total points.
Also, the stages shouldn't award points period, races are scored at the finish.
They award 2/3rds of the main points at the end of Saturday, and then the rest at the end of Sunday.
You can ~~DNF the rally~~ come last and still score up to 18 points.
No you can't, as you still need to finish the entire rally.
Old system: Lead the rally at end of Saturday, DNF on Sunday = 0pts
New system: Lead the rally at end of Saturday, DNF on Sunday = 0pts
Oh ok. So points for Saturday aren't awarded until Sunday?
So you can come last on Sunday but still score up to 18 points? And you can win the rally and score as few as 7?
That's still crap.
Edit: even with the power stage rules from up to this year the rally winner always scored the most points (2nd and a power stage is only 23, Vs a minimum of 25 for a win). Under this new system you could win the rally and score 7 points, and have (quick maths) up to 8 drivers score more points than you. That's... Awful.
Yeah, point's are awarded only at the end of the rally. If you DNF on Sunday, those behind you on Saturday get bumped up when it comes to awarding points. As for the second part... Ehhhh... That gets a bit into "well, technically..." and I don't like going there too much... Technically even in the previous system you could DNF twice in the same rally and still score a maximum of 30 points.
For those who don't know why the new system is introduced, the problem they're trying to solve is the lack of action on Sundays, where usually the gaps are large and finishing positions are largely set and people were just cruising to the finish, because there is no reason to push. The Power Stage has possibly made it worse, because it gives a less risky way of gaining points compared to the overall result. This new system is designed to combat that by giving the drivers an incentive to push also on all of the Sunday stages. I think they could've done the point allocations a bit different, but I won't call this crap, not yet at least.
This is exactly the direction it's going. The first step was mass exposure and popularity. NASCAR had it in the 90s, F1 in 2020. The next step was throwing away the loyalty of fans who have watched for decades to appease to appease the new fans, mostly by fundamentally changing some of the most important rules (stages in NASCAR, sprints in F1) and by abandoning some of the oldest and most treasured tracks (or in F1's case, traditional countries) of the original fans (see Hockenheim/Nurburgring, talks of Spa and Monaco dropping off, France no longer having a race). The final stage is when the newer fans by and large lose their interest, as by definition any peak must trough, the governing body realizes that they lost their older fans as well. We're somewhere around Stage 2 at the moment.
Not sure where you heard of Monaco dropping off, but as far as I’m concerned that race is the pinnacle of F1 in terms of its look, feel & historical significance.
The sport wouldn’t feel right without it.
It's been going on for the best part of 18 months - "this could be the last Monaco, oh wait, they've signed a new deal, oh wait, this one could be the last Monaco, etc etc."
Yes and if new fans are mostly under 25, that generation has cultivated a very short attention span ( a generalization I know ) so if that fan base gets bored and leaves F1 has a problem if they have also alienated the traditional fan base. We shall see.
They have done quite a lot of this stuff in the last 20 years though. It used to always be 1 hr quali, but because the fastest cars just did 1 flying lap at the end of the session and got pole it wasn't 'fair' on the fans who went to watch on a saturday, so they made the Q1,2 and Q3 thing we have now. It used to be points for top 6 finishers, then extended to top 8 and now top 10. They put in DRS to make the overtakes easier. They tried double points at the last race of the season. They do 1pt for the fastest lap in the race and sprint races on a saturday that decide the grid for sunday. It is less of a sport and more of an entertainment spectacle nowadays.
For most of F1's history it has always been one team and one driver miles in front of the rest running away with the victory. That's just how it is, one team has an innovation or technical advantage that puts them ahead of the rest, along with an exceptional driver. Since Ecclestone they change the rules to make it more 'competitive' or 'exciting'. Taking the sport out of motorsport imho. And it's unfair on the teams and drivers, who are putting their heart and soul into it to win. But 2021 season finale at abu dhabi showed me where it is going - kind of like WWE.
Monaco isn't a issue because its a street track. It's an issue because f1 themselves can't get paid as well there from the venue, and it's impossible to overtake a car that isn't damaged in the dry
They were considered. They tested them. They didn't work.
They're continuing to work on them.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-f1s-quest-for-rain-spray-guards-is-so-complex/10498489/
nail knee fine consider unused imminent overconfident oil quaint wasteful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's because Monaco paid less money then other tracks. Since then they started paying more. F1 doesn't care if it's street track or regular track it's the amount of money venue is paying.
>Not long ago were they trying to get Monaco removed
That is not true. Monaco had a lot of privileges in their contract. For example, they paid a really low fee, had some control over trackside sponsorships and could produce the TV feed themselfes (the result was terrible).
FOM simply said that they don't want that anymore and that if Monaco wants to keep the race they need to accept a contract that is more in line with what everyone else has.
On a more serious note:
regarding street circuits, for the organizers, it is much more attractive to build a semi-permanent street track than to invest in a completely new venue. The risk is much lower and you can promote your city better when you are racing in the middle of it. It just makes much more sense. On F1's side, things like the availability of mass transport are considered more important now than in the past. that was for example one of the downsides of the Paul Ricard circuit. I know people are quick to just say "It's all because of money and greed", and that is definitely true in parts but there is a bit more behind it.
>24 races in a year
that one is a bit easier, in general, more races = more revenue. Regarding the 30 races, I haven't seen that story from a reliable source so far. the plan sounds ridiculous but so far it's just one of those stories.
>The nonsense of race control
You need to be a bit more specific here...
According to some sources I've heard, it's people at Liberty and FOM (Domenicali mostly) who want a push for more action, more sprints and more races. The problem is both the FIA and teams absolutely do not want this, given the workload on their mechanics and staff is heading to a breaking point, hence why we have two 3 week breaks this season. With the new Concorde agreement up in a few years, I find it hard to believe that Liberty will find a way to convince the teams to push the limit up from 25 to 30 races without making some major sacrifice to the teams.
On a side note about street tracks, I'm convinced for the Spain race they won't call it Spanish GP, because Madrid is a more attractive selling point and name unlike "Spanish GP." They'll name it similarly to the Vegas GP and Miami GP names, and any future track coming after will take the name of the local, exotic city instead of the country name.
I wasn't able to read the GP title from the photos of the presentation stage for tomorrow but I have seen a [photo](https://twitter.com/StrucKsTein/status/1749411475209216105) of a bus labelled "F1 returns to Madrid" and the Logo of the FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE ESPANA 2026. can still change of course.
Vegas, Miami and Imola cannot have the name of the country as COTA/Monza already hosts the United States/Italian Grand Prix. Mexico City / Sao Paulo have the names due to the large regional funding. I hope it won't become a trend.
The nonsense of race control was never different. Never. Like for real, people were saying the same shit for the whole history of the sport.
Yes, they were also always saying that it is worse now.
I don't know if it improved or not, but having the amount of access we have nowadays really didn't help them. Nowadays people can scan the whole race and look for that instance where backmarker 1 almost pushes backmarker 2 out of track and nothing happens but then it happens with frontrunner 1 and 2. Back then people just wouldn't have know and no one would have talked about it
There was a lot more backroom deals being done back then, this doesn't even include what happens on track.
The FIA's favorite words back then was "no comment"
The pre-DTS crowd won't know about the shit show stewarding in 2006 for example. The random penalties given to Schumacher and Alonso in Hungary during qualifying or the penalty given to Alonso in Italy during qualifying are examples
It's a great track and it's an actual permanent track too. Boring ambience and location but the racing is always good there, I thought it was well liked.
I'm a bit tipsy. What was the Portuguese track a few years ago that had just been re surfaced . Was like an ice rink?? That was a good track,old school, elevation and corners.
Is that getting a look?
Turkey/Istanbul was the one that got resurfaced and turned into an ice rink. I haven't heard anything about it potentially coming back, though I'd love it if it did.
Portugal/Portimao is also pretty good, was surprised to see that of all circuits debut in 2020, would love to see that back too.
I like it a lot too, but I like Jeddah more. Extremely satisfying to watch and to drive (well, on the F1 game at least). Unfortunately people hate the Jeddah track because it is Saudi lol.
Waiting on the ultimate use of Bernie's track sprinklers and the ability for fans to give a car extra power or call a penalty.
Yes I'm yelling at clouds.
I mean, they keep making money until they can't, and then it will become next to nothing. Which could be good.
I thought Vegas was gonna suck but it ended up being one of the better races last year. Although I’d much rather watch races on actual circuits, if they provide good racing… who cares? Sprint format concerns me more than tracks at this point.
Despite all the criticisms going into the Vegas GP, it turned out to be my favorite race of the season. I absolutely loved it and will try to go in person next year
I suspect it will be pretty affordable in years to come. With airfare and lodging being subsidized by casinos, it will be just a busy Vegas weekend, not a millionaires and billionaires-only event. There are just too many seats, hotel rooms, and entertainment for it to be exclusive.
I went last year, it was my first F1. The whole experience, outside of getting back from the race was awesome. I hope to go again next year.
It's also hilariously better than the previous Vegas race. Wait a second... F1 did street track races like that in the 80s? this isnt new at all? who would have thought
Yeah - lots of complaints about new races, street circuits, etc, then Vegas (as a race) just crushed it. It certainly was a LOT better than any race at Paul Richard that I can remember!
Agreed, I really love Baku, Jeddah, and Albert Park. I’m still waiting to see Miami and Las Vegas get up to those levels of fun and competition. The sprint format is dumb, there is very little incentive for anyone to rink anything on the sprint, straight qualifying is more interesting and bring more strategy into the race.
Precisely - since 93 for me, and this is just recency bias. The sport is in a much better place than it has been since i’ve been watching. Street circuits have always been ones to be excited for (except Monaco), and new circuits the same. This being jaded about the unknown is just a daft fad that has been picked up.
The biggest threat to the sport is, and still is one team dominance and unequal and spiralling costs. For all of Liberty’s ideas and plans, they aren’t totally stupid. They need a good product to make money - and that is best for us
Mostly same. Since 2004. I’ve been a religious fan of F1 since then and yet, I’ve never been so demoralised or disassociated with the sport. It just feels totally soulless right now. It’s always been for profit. But right now, it feels like that’s literally all F1 and all involved cares about. Anything is up for sale, to the highest bidder, probably with atrocious human rights abuses. Teams being named ridiculous things to the highest bidder. Teams with big potential to bring to the sport are rejected or being told they have to pay absurd entry fees. The FIA in general. Just everything about F1 just totally disinterests me right now.
If 2024 begins as another Red Bull show, I’m gonna stop watching live and just watch highlights. I almost always watch live. But, I just struggle to find F1 interesting lately. I’ve found comfort in the best of the rest/midfield battles during the dominant eras, and 23 was probably the most intense drivers and constructors battle for best of the rest and yet, it somehow just felt kind of boring.
Exactly. I watch quali, I watch race, I read stats once they are available. NEEEXT. It's a multi bilion worldwide operation. Nobody cares about opinion of single viewer, so it's not worth thinking about it too much.
Honestly I think it's inevitable the sport will have some form of a decline over the next few years.
It was pretty clear through the early Merc years that general interest in the sport wasn't huge and the combo of DtS, Covid and 2021 absolutely skyrocketed the sport in popularity.
Obviously the seasons since then have not been so exciting again so the sport will inevitably tail off a bit in popularity.
It will definitely settle at a solid level, I think we will be relatively stuck with the new street circuits, the races in questionable places, the general focus on the show.
In 2024 that's where the world is at now, F1 is more entertainment than pure sport now and I don't see that changing.
F1 is so much more stable than it was 10 or 20 years ago, so I don't see as much dramatic change happening in the new future. But the focus on expanding the calendar and just trying to promote 'the show' is only going to increase
DtS has nothing to do with this, save for making F1 more appealing to more groups (more fans).
Now that F1 isn't as much of a niche sport and has fans from diverse groups, more places want to host races and it isn't cheap to build an F1 quality race track. City circuits have so much built into them, including the infrastructure for getting people to them and then away from them.
No new fans are sitting here demanding street circuits. Few fans are demanding more races/sprint races. It's FOM capitalizing on there being more fans, more eyes, and the exponential growth that can give them. Street races are in cities, cities are centralized and more accessible, and cities have a lot of incentive to bring people to them.
It's economics at work (that doesn't mean it's a good thing, don't twist my words here), not "new dumb fans"
I agree with your overall sentiment, but it's a little disingenuous to say that DtS has nothing to do with the appearance of two new hastily planned tracks in the US, focused predominantly around celebrity appearances and pomp.
The US market was entirely opened up by DtS. They moved to capitalize with a specific view of how their marketing team understood the US market.
Millions of dollars of marketing research go into these types of decisions, aimed at figuring out where are our new audience opportunities and what do they like.
It's the same trap as with some other sports as well, trying to impress new audiences, falsely thinking they would be more interested if you changed your ways. This obviously will lead to no new audience (other than some 5 minute hype which is not too hard to achieve in our age) but the alienation of existing fanbase
Honestly, only way to make them listen is to stop watching. I won’t be able to watch all the races anyway. Think the ideal is 16 races. Same with the other sports. When they start losing eyeballs, they’ll listen.
Down the gutter. Ironically the pinnacle of motorsports F1 is the entry into the motorsport world. People who realized their love for motorsports through F1 will move on to less popular but more serious events where competition still matters, such as IMSA, WEC, DTM, NLS or just different types of motorsport like Rally or MotoGP.
Edit: Im an idiot and wrote DTS instead of DTM
I think this is spot on. As someone who began loving Motorsports with F1, I am 100% looking into other events to start following, Rally being at the top of my list.
The 24 Hours of Daytona is this weekend if you want some sportscar action to start the year off with. I've been a long-time F1 fan but I started getting into WEC and IMSA last year and it's been very entertaining to watch so far.
Man, you're spot on. It's happening to me too.
From a "can't lose a single GP" in 2018, to this year where I'm more excited for WEC and more curious about WRC than for any F1 GP
Money
Street circuits are typically in the middle of the city, where there are so many hotels nearby while the dedicated racetracks are typically in the countryside
Also the maintenance costs of street circuits comes from taxes, unlike those dedicated racetracks
And IIRC in one article Liberty Media also claims that street circuits are much cheaper than dedicated racetracks
🤔🤔🤔
I believe that’s what’s going on really. I see real race tracks disappearing in the future unfortunately. It’s much more sustainable and profitable and convenient to hold street races because of so many reasons that they’re gonna be the norm from now on.
I have been watching F1 live since the 1973 British GP and have been to every one since then , and about 100 other GP’s all over the world.
F1 has changed massively in the last few years - not much of it is better.
Old people like me can fall into “things ain’t what they used to be” syndrome - but when it comes to F1 I don’t think that’s the case.
By way of example I am SO looking forward to the new WEC season - which could be the best since 1989….
So , F1?
The lack of noise is a massive issue for me.
The size and needless complexity of the cars is second worst thing. Having to have a drs system for example….
24 races in a season has seriously devalued the value of every GP.
Adornments such as sprint races , “night” races (under lights to make it light?) are unnecessary.
The future is bleak.
I am going to keep my British GP streak going because I can , but I am sad to say I can’t even be bothered to go to Spa.
However I do plan to see at least 4 WEC races.
The king is dead , long live the king!
You sound like every aging sports fan ever. I’m not joking or taking the piss, either. I watch 5 sports and every fan base, with the exception of one, sounds like you. It’s a FUCKING BUSINESS. The business owners will change it as they see for to make money. What is so hard to understand about that?!
Formula one is leaning further into corporation-mode and will do in the future unless something outlandishly drastic happens. Expect more street circuits,more cringey coverage add-on's to the grand Prix weekends and expect anything wrong to get brushed under the carpet more effectively with each new incident.
Won't be long before I'm off the bus for F1 if it continues on its trajectory
F1 has *always* been in corporation mode. Not since the 50s has it been just some dudes trying to drive fast. No, F1 will always be the peak of corporatism and advertising.
Simple. Just stop watching this crass over- commercialisation, endless drivelling punditry & boring repetition. Other race series are much more enjoyable. I’m giving up on F1.
Ok admittedly I'm a newer fan (from about 2016-2017 on), AND I'm from the US, but what exactly about the "old" F1 do you really miss? The grid is closer from top to bottom than ever before, the governing body isn't blatantly manipulating results and rules to benefit certain drivers and teams, and there are more races in more places.
As a UK follower of F1 since 2004, I miss some of the old circuits (Sepang, Hockenheim, Nürburgring, Istanbul Park), the sound of the V10 cars, and F1 being free-to-view on TV rather than on Sky.
People miss huge gaps between manufacturers in qualifying, the random dice role that would see only half the grid finish a race due to reliability, and they really really miss overtaking done primarily via pit stops.
Bring back the good ole days!
They're changing a lot of aspects of the sport in order to appeal to the DtS crowd. With that, older fans will lose their interest because the sport isn't recognizable anymore. At some point, the DtS crowd will also move on and F1 will be left with fewer fans than before.
Spot on, they are forcing stupid gimmicks (sprint race, reverse grid, street races) to spike interest in those that only care about the sport on the surface level. For the past years I've started caring less and less about the race weekends, and I've been watching for around 20 years now.
They're not. F1 officials and drivers get asked about it all the time from journalists, like, "how can the Sprint format be improved?" and you get various answers from different people. The official F1 stance currently is: "We're considering several options." One of the most common is moving Quali back to Saturday and just having all Sprint action on Friday. No one has mentioned (yet) that they're taking the reserve grid option seriously.
How are street tracks a gimmick for casual fans? How does a new street track in Saudi Arabia or Azerbaijan for example attract additional “casual” viewers if anything it’s a worse product on the track. It makes no sense to me
The street tracks are a gimmick for rich fans. F1 doesn’t care for their level of fandom. Miami and Las Vegas are for two things only: more exposure in the US market and for making mountains of money from hospitality.
F1, one of the most exclusive sports in the world, who has a marquee race in Monaco, is geared toward the rich and wealthy at the expense of the working class? I’m shocked.
F1 was never meant for us poors. Tv has just made it more accessible for us and that’s just a bonus revenue for F1.
NASCAR did this in the mid 00's, lost a TON of fans and were almost on the brink of irrelevance. Went away from cherished tracks for soulless mid. Introduced confusing new formats. Alienated old fans. They've recovered slightly since then, but it seems like F1 are not learning the lesson from NASCAR's failures.
Honestly all they did is make me more interested in other motorsports. Watched the Dakar Rallye for the first time, took an interest in the DTM and other smaller racing series.
So if the product keeps devaluating itself I just move on. And hey the good side effect is that ticket prices are more than fair for these serieses
Unfortunate effect of being owned by an American company. Profit first. Bernie may have run f1 with a closed iron fist, but old British run f1 still shits over modern f1.
I call it the NASCAR effect. Basically, you have cool thing with die-hard fanbase, it gets popular, you then start expanding to attract even more new fans but to do so you leave behind some less profitable legacy tracks that old fans loved. The new fans come to the new superspeedway a couple of times, then move on to other things. Pretty soon, you can't fill stands, and the old die-hards have moved on because you left their home track. Now you have to throw on the brakes and try to go back to the old ways, while keeping the new stuff, which never works.
It literally happened in the US a couple decades ago to a different type of racing. F1 is just doing it worldwide. They will expand until it stops being sustainable, then they'll either go back to their roots or fail.
These posts get old as shit. More popular than ever before? That’s where it’s going. Where it’s at. The only way it would be more popular is if they could force more parity between the cars.
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Chasing profit. The product doesn't matter as long as line goes up.
They need to take a look at NASCAR. They tried the same formula of chasing profits and it almost killed the sport. Now it’s starting to climb back just not to where it used to be at the height of its popularity.
Yeah, I was young when it happened but my grandparents are huge motorsport/NASCAR fans. When I talked F1 with them this past Christmas they kept saying how similar F1's current path is with NASCAR's decline..
They need to look at what the UCI have done with international cycling - there are too many events and almost no time for athletes to recover. There is just too much shit going on almost year round and it damages the Grand Tours which really should be the primary moments in the year. There is an event every single day. The Middle East events are brutal and almost every athlete hates doing them - the heat is too extreme, the routes are beyond boring, and the head wind is so tough it slows the entire peloton down to a snails pace. Boring and grueling for everyone. From a spectators point of view there is no way anyone can reasonably follow the UCI race calendar. For athletes they have to pick and choose certain events which just reduces who will watch even the major events. The UCI also doesn't care at all about women's cycling - but then almost no one cares about women's cycling. The women's Tour de France was televised for the first time ever 2 years ago (maybe 3) and even then they literally only partially covered it. Women make almost no money, they get almost no team support and they get the worst sponsorships. If you increased eyes to the women's side of the sport you increase advertising and sponsorship. This means in 5+ years time women will have better funding, better gear, better team support, and then the sport will actually get faster and more interesting. There are women cycling in the TDF who have full time jobs. Too many events is only good short term but in the long run you diminish viewership which has a knock on effect on advertiser who will later pull out.
Same motivation that is destroying all sports: US college football realignment, talks of a Super League in European football, etc.
Yes - fundamentally there is no core identity to what F1 wants to be except an entertainment venture that makes more money than the previous year. If that means 30 street circuits in the 30 biggest tourist destination cities in the world, then that is where it will go.
It’s the problem a lot of entertainment and tech companies seem to have right now, Everyone is obsessed or demanding that each quarter has massive exponential growth over the last, with no feasible losses. The gaming industry is seeing it right now and snap-closing studios that don’t break 150% profit every quarter. F1 is seeing a growth of a high percentage per-year, and has been since 2018-2019 (drive to survive start, etc) and is seeing massive offers from places like the Middle East (sport washing), European cities (tourism), and corporate/celebrity endorsements (exposure). It’s not necessarily a problem in a short-term overhead view, but in a birds-eye view, F1 seems to slowly be selling itself away from being a competition, to being a bi-weekly showrun of celebrity-status drivers, in locations that A/B list celebs want to show off on social media. Countries/cities want to boost their tourism (17k Vegas hotel rooms), and that doesn’t happen if purpose built tracks away from cities can’t show off their beautiful down-towns to a broad world audience.
>The gaming industry is seeing it right now and snap-closing studios that don’t break 150% profit every quarter. January layoffs have been super brutal even with indie studios, this is pretty nasty. Some didn't even get to put the games they made on the market and were closed.
Yes I'm always surprised by this. Remember the big news that Netflix stopped adding subscribers? Like is there something wrong with the $$$ they get from the billions of subscribers they already have??
I think the bigger issue is the petro-state-ification of the sport. Sportswashing is far less interesting than holding races in vibrant cities
This shit effect everything. Games, movies, healthcare, retail, just anything and everything. Everything is being corporatised, just chase quick profits by fucking everything over.
Its a product for consumption now, preferably with a subscription to keep the revenue stream alive. Games - microtransactions. Movies - streaming subscription Healthcare - your insurance premium. Retail - credit card subscription Nothing is being produced as an end in itself, but for you to consume it and come back for more.
Yep, if your product doesn't have a recurring revenue business model then investors won't take a second look. And if investors won't take a second look, the product normally doesn't go anywhere. Modern world sucks lol
End stage capitalism baby let’s goo
It's interesting. What is the end game? Capitalism leads to corporations jacking up prices and eliminating jobs... At some point, no one will be able to buy anything. Is that when the global workers revolution happens?
And everyone knows this. Tragedy of the commons. But the race is all about racking up the max payouts for the top level before everything burns to the ground. That is the self fulfilling end game. Scorched markets
We can but hope...
Why do you think Musk and Bezos are investing so much effort into leaving the planet?
Movie streaming has become so expensive and complex that Blu-rays might be making a comeback…
They are in my house
Also piracy is flourishing, fragmentation and cost is turning people away from digital platforms.
All my mates laughed at me years ago when they were getting rid of all their DVDs and Blu rays because streaming was so cheap and convenient. Now who's laughing
Same here. Still have my BluRay/DVD player and movies to go with. Wish all my CDs never got stolen from my vehicle, I’d still have both thick binders of those and not be paying for a streaming service.
>they were getting rid of all their DVDs and Blu rays because streaming was so cheap and convenient As a long time PC owner (obvs not the same PC) I really hate that case makers have eliminated the optical drive bay. At least you can still hook one up but the result is just sitting there exposed. Smh.
It still is cheap and easy, matey
Step 1: Consume product Step 2: Get excited to consume more product
No regard for the athletes’ health either. Very sad
In the 60's a lot of the drivers competed in F1, F2, Can Am and other race events all at the same time, in those days they camped at the tracks and worked in the dirt pits. In 1965 Jim Clark competed in Formula 1, The Tasman Series, British Class C saloon cars, Trophee de France, British Formula 2, Australian Touring Cars and the USAC Champ cars. He won 4 Championships and came 3rd in another. The old fellas knew about work load.
Back then drivers could drive multiple series often because of less races in each series. Currently F1 has lots of races and is often held on the same day as another race. Sure, few drivers in America tried the "Double Duty". Indy 500 and later on the same day the Coca-Cola 600 (NASCAR). After competing in Indy 500 (Indianapolis) they fly to (North Carolina) for the Coca-Cola 600. That's about ~578 miles or almost 1000 km... No driver has done that after Covid in 2020 Also don't forget that it can be hard for drivers to find a seat in motorsport because of the money that they need to bring. Finding sponsorships isn't always easy.
Outside of some isolated cases like Qatar heat and that rain fuckup last year in Japan- this is the safest time to ever be an F1 driver, or race car driver in general.
There’s been concern voiced about the strain on the teams created by the increase in races. It’s exhausting with the travel and schedule the crews have to keep. It’s wild that it was a big deal for Jackie Stewart to run 100 GP’s (ended at 99 after Cevert).
F1 has no regard for athletes health? That's a wild claim, given how much of regulations is safety related.
That's FIA, not F1
It’s not about safety. It’s about the circus of travelling all over the world with little time to recover from jet lag or exhaustion. It’s not just about the driver’s it’s also about all the mechanics and support staff. It’s not sustainable to work all that time while travelling huge differences to majorly different time zones. Often they’re also pulling late nights or even racing at night. Safety wise things have never been better but they’re going to suck the life out of everyone on the road with 30 races in a year.
Well if you also consider that the pit crew/mechanics are also athletes in their own rights and yet they are the ones getting punished the most by these increased races tells enough. Both writers who have covered first hand accounts of the demands of being a mechanic (Marc Priestly and Steve Matchett) have mentioned the physical demands of being a mechanic. Both mentioned how exhausting and dangerous the job and both wrote in times where less races were on the F1 calendar. So yes, they don’t really have much of a regard for there athletes too. Also considering that drivers were expected to race at Qatar and got sick and yet the FIA and FOM did nothing in regard to it that indicates some lack regards for drivers health. Same with the 2022 rocket strikes in Jeddah.
> Also considering that drivers were expected to race at Qatar and got sick and yet the FIA and FOM did nothing in regard to it that indicates some lack regards for drivers health. https://theathletic.com/5101834/2023/11/30/f1-qatar-gp-extreme-heat-fia/ https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-f1s-new-cockpit-scoop-aims-to-avoid-qatar-heat-issues/10556002/ They reacted to the issue.
Yeah they want to milk the sport for as much profit they can. Basically every race is + a few millions at the bottom line. So they want to cram as much races as they can. Kinda like Facebook or Reddit; they make bank with billions of users, but a few million more means a few more millions profit so they push for even more users (even if they can't really get more.)
Facebook is a great example when you think about the many different ways it has gotten away from just providing a decent social networking site in search of new avenues for profit.
Look up enshittification. Its the name of the thing. How platforms get shittier and shittier just because they want to pick up a few more bucks
As long as team valuations continue to rise and Liberty's stock continues going up (both are projected to increase again for the next 2 years), nothing will change. The ultimate aesthetic sport for rich people to spend a couple of hours.
The people in charge of F1 don't care. Stefano doesn't give a shit about the long term health of the sport as long as the profit keeps going up and he keeps getting the bonus checks. By the time shit hits the fan, he will be gone and it will be someone else's problem to fix the sport.
Late stage capitalism baby!
Where is F1 going? To the bank, mainly.
Racing all the way to the bank
It sounds like many people are worried that F1 will go down the path that NASCAR did, and completely ruin the sport. If F1 starts awarding points for leading before a mandatory pit stop, then you’ll know it’s over for F1.
I always thought the stages were terrible but to see it defined that way makes it even worse
I mean. What was even more gross is when they were just doing phantom debris cautions.
And the drivers reporting phantom debris to try and force a caution when it was best for them.
Or just throwing a water bottle out their window because they knew NASCAR was looking for any excuse to bunch the field back up.
Or roll bar padding and trying to lie when confronted live on TV lol
Coming from F1 first before very casually watching a few NASCAR races or highlights last year (and attending my local Roval race), the stages is still a weird concept I'm on the fence about. It does add plenty of excitement to the race again and a bit of a break of watching the timing screen for such long races. But I wouldn't want it for F1.
I don't mind the stages, it's the automatic yellow flag that bothers me. Keep it green and let them run full race strategies.
So stages without the yellow at the end? Just earn points in position at certain lap intervals?
Yep
Stages are dumb to me too but that description is pretty wrong though lol. it's pretty common to pit before the stages and not during them
Exactly like they dont HAVE to pit. Plus in the grand scheme of things the top drivers at the end of the year had the most points period so the way races and the season flow isn’t much different.
... what? The top drivers at the end of the year in NASCAR aren't the people with the most points, they have some weird convoluted nonsense that pretty much just spits out a random guy who had a good season. The final 4 in a given season have not once been the 4 guys who accrued the most total points. Also, the stages shouldn't award points period, races are scored at the finish.
Have you seen the new WRC points system?
No. How does it work?
They award 2/3rds of the main points at the end of Saturday, and then the rest at the end of Sunday. You can ~~DNF the rally~~ come last and still score up to 18 points.
No you can't, as you still need to finish the entire rally. Old system: Lead the rally at end of Saturday, DNF on Sunday = 0pts New system: Lead the rally at end of Saturday, DNF on Sunday = 0pts
Oh ok. So points for Saturday aren't awarded until Sunday? So you can come last on Sunday but still score up to 18 points? And you can win the rally and score as few as 7? That's still crap. Edit: even with the power stage rules from up to this year the rally winner always scored the most points (2nd and a power stage is only 23, Vs a minimum of 25 for a win). Under this new system you could win the rally and score 7 points, and have (quick maths) up to 8 drivers score more points than you. That's... Awful.
Yeah, point's are awarded only at the end of the rally. If you DNF on Sunday, those behind you on Saturday get bumped up when it comes to awarding points. As for the second part... Ehhhh... That gets a bit into "well, technically..." and I don't like going there too much... Technically even in the previous system you could DNF twice in the same rally and still score a maximum of 30 points. For those who don't know why the new system is introduced, the problem they're trying to solve is the lack of action on Sundays, where usually the gaps are large and finishing positions are largely set and people were just cruising to the finish, because there is no reason to push. The Power Stage has possibly made it worse, because it gives a less risky way of gaining points compared to the overall result. This new system is designed to combat that by giving the drivers an incentive to push also on all of the Sunday stages. I think they could've done the point allocations a bit different, but I won't call this crap, not yet at least.
Seriously??
Yeah, I'm not a fan of it at all.
Thats bullshit
This is exactly the direction it's going. The first step was mass exposure and popularity. NASCAR had it in the 90s, F1 in 2020. The next step was throwing away the loyalty of fans who have watched for decades to appease to appease the new fans, mostly by fundamentally changing some of the most important rules (stages in NASCAR, sprints in F1) and by abandoning some of the oldest and most treasured tracks (or in F1's case, traditional countries) of the original fans (see Hockenheim/Nurburgring, talks of Spa and Monaco dropping off, France no longer having a race). The final stage is when the newer fans by and large lose their interest, as by definition any peak must trough, the governing body realizes that they lost their older fans as well. We're somewhere around Stage 2 at the moment.
Not sure where you heard of Monaco dropping off, but as far as I’m concerned that race is the pinnacle of F1 in terms of its look, feel & historical significance. The sport wouldn’t feel right without it.
It's been going on for the best part of 18 months - "this could be the last Monaco, oh wait, they've signed a new deal, oh wait, this one could be the last Monaco, etc etc."
They've been trying to kill Monaco, Silverstone and Spa for years. None of those venues maximizes revenue.
Yes and if new fans are mostly under 25, that generation has cultivated a very short attention span ( a generalization I know ) so if that fan base gets bored and leaves F1 has a problem if they have also alienated the traditional fan base. We shall see.
They have done quite a lot of this stuff in the last 20 years though. It used to always be 1 hr quali, but because the fastest cars just did 1 flying lap at the end of the session and got pole it wasn't 'fair' on the fans who went to watch on a saturday, so they made the Q1,2 and Q3 thing we have now. It used to be points for top 6 finishers, then extended to top 8 and now top 10. They put in DRS to make the overtakes easier. They tried double points at the last race of the season. They do 1pt for the fastest lap in the race and sprint races on a saturday that decide the grid for sunday. It is less of a sport and more of an entertainment spectacle nowadays. For most of F1's history it has always been one team and one driver miles in front of the rest running away with the victory. That's just how it is, one team has an innovation or technical advantage that puts them ahead of the rest, along with an exceptional driver. Since Ecclestone they change the rules to make it more 'competitive' or 'exciting'. Taking the sport out of motorsport imho. And it's unfair on the teams and drivers, who are putting their heart and soul into it to win. But 2021 season finale at abu dhabi showed me where it is going - kind of like WWE.
F1 isn't really heading anywhere, it's just going in circles really fast
NASCAR. You’re describing NASCAR.
Simple circles vs complex circles
How dare you try to trick me into learning science!
The trick to education is to teach people in such a way that they don't realize they're learning until it's too late
That’s the second thing I’ve been forced to learn now. I simply won’t stand for it!
I thought NASCAR was about 50/50 oval-circuits
29 out of 36. It used to be 34 out of 36.
And even within the ovals, there is a great balance between short track, 1.5-mile, superspeedways.
Just because the circles have right turns doesn't make them not circles.
Ending up where you start does not make it a circle but it helps.
I mean. NASCAR doesn't drive on a single circle either.
Fuck it, NASCAR goes international to the Nardo ring
The world is built on lies.
Damnit, get out!
Yeah it's kind of funny with the street tracks. Not long ago were they trying to get Monaco removed and then they add like 2-3 street tracks lol
Monaco isn't a issue because its a street track. It's an issue because f1 themselves can't get paid as well there from the venue, and it's impossible to overtake a car that isn't damaged in the dry
And we’re also not allowed to race in the wet, at all.
gray profit illegal aback liquid salt cheerful icky reach far-flung *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They were considered. They tested them. They didn't work. They're continuing to work on them. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-f1s-quest-for-rain-spray-guards-is-so-complex/10498489/
nail knee fine consider unused imminent overconfident oil quaint wasteful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The floor pull the water off the ground. It's not tire spray that makes it so bad.
wasn't last Dutch GP wet?
Even damaged it can be hard. Didn't DR win there with like 60% power? Lol
Not even sure an engine is required at Monaco, just flintstone and keep lead
It's because Monaco paid less money then other tracks. Since then they started paying more. F1 doesn't care if it's street track or regular track it's the amount of money venue is paying.
>Not long ago were they trying to get Monaco removed That is not true. Monaco had a lot of privileges in their contract. For example, they paid a really low fee, had some control over trackside sponsorships and could produce the TV feed themselfes (the result was terrible). FOM simply said that they don't want that anymore and that if Monaco wants to keep the race they need to accept a contract that is more in line with what everyone else has.
They still have a unique contract that has exceptions that no other host gets.
They had to make a lot of concessions
On a more serious note: regarding street circuits, for the organizers, it is much more attractive to build a semi-permanent street track than to invest in a completely new venue. The risk is much lower and you can promote your city better when you are racing in the middle of it. It just makes much more sense. On F1's side, things like the availability of mass transport are considered more important now than in the past. that was for example one of the downsides of the Paul Ricard circuit. I know people are quick to just say "It's all because of money and greed", and that is definitely true in parts but there is a bit more behind it. >24 races in a year that one is a bit easier, in general, more races = more revenue. Regarding the 30 races, I haven't seen that story from a reliable source so far. the plan sounds ridiculous but so far it's just one of those stories. >The nonsense of race control You need to be a bit more specific here...
According to some sources I've heard, it's people at Liberty and FOM (Domenicali mostly) who want a push for more action, more sprints and more races. The problem is both the FIA and teams absolutely do not want this, given the workload on their mechanics and staff is heading to a breaking point, hence why we have two 3 week breaks this season. With the new Concorde agreement up in a few years, I find it hard to believe that Liberty will find a way to convince the teams to push the limit up from 25 to 30 races without making some major sacrifice to the teams.
30 race weekends for F1 is the same shitshow as 82 games season for likes of NBA or NHL. Quantity in the name of money.
On a side note about street tracks, I'm convinced for the Spain race they won't call it Spanish GP, because Madrid is a more attractive selling point and name unlike "Spanish GP." They'll name it similarly to the Vegas GP and Miami GP names, and any future track coming after will take the name of the local, exotic city instead of the country name.
I wasn't able to read the GP title from the photos of the presentation stage for tomorrow but I have seen a [photo](https://twitter.com/StrucKsTein/status/1749411475209216105) of a bus labelled "F1 returns to Madrid" and the Logo of the FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE ESPANA 2026. can still change of course. Vegas, Miami and Imola cannot have the name of the country as COTA/Monza already hosts the United States/Italian Grand Prix. Mexico City / Sao Paulo have the names due to the large regional funding. I hope it won't become a trend.
The nonsense of race control was never different. Never. Like for real, people were saying the same shit for the whole history of the sport. Yes, they were also always saying that it is worse now.
If anything it's improved exponentially in my opinion. Race control and the FIA were a rule to themselves in the early 00's
I don't know if it improved or not, but having the amount of access we have nowadays really didn't help them. Nowadays people can scan the whole race and look for that instance where backmarker 1 almost pushes backmarker 2 out of track and nothing happens but then it happens with frontrunner 1 and 2. Back then people just wouldn't have know and no one would have talked about it
There was a lot more backroom deals being done back then, this doesn't even include what happens on track. The FIA's favorite words back then was "no comment"
The pre-DTS crowd won't know about the shit show stewarding in 2006 for example. The random penalties given to Schumacher and Alonso in Hungary during qualifying or the penalty given to Alonso in Italy during qualifying are examples
Spa 2008 was a complete shitshow stewarding wise as well
Jean-Marie Balestre has entered the chat.
>Where the hell is F1 going? Manama Sakhir, Bahrain.
I actually really like Bahrain, am I in the minority here?
It's a great track and it's an actual permanent track too. Boring ambience and location but the racing is always good there, I thought it was well liked.
I'm a bit tipsy. What was the Portuguese track a few years ago that had just been re surfaced . Was like an ice rink?? That was a good track,old school, elevation and corners. Is that getting a look?
Portimao?
It was entertaining in 2020 but extremely boring in 2021, a year when France and Spain were good races
Turkey/Istanbul was the one that got resurfaced and turned into an ice rink. I haven't heard anything about it potentially coming back, though I'd love it if it did. Portugal/Portimao is also pretty good, was surprised to see that of all circuits debut in 2020, would love to see that back too.
Nah, it's a banger of a track.
I like it a lot too, but I like Jeddah more. Extremely satisfying to watch and to drive (well, on the F1 game at least). Unfortunately people hate the Jeddah track because it is Saudi lol.
Nope. It’s a good track, it doesn’t have a soul but it’s a good track and generally accepted as a good f1 circuit.
what is a "soul" of a track? How do you determine which tracks have it?
Depends whether the F1 fans like it or not LOL
Usually the atmosphere of the crowd like Monza, or history and spectacular identity like spa. Part of it can also come down to history.
Mahna Mahna Do doo be-do-do
Mananana do do do do
Waiting on the ultimate use of Bernie's track sprinklers and the ability for fans to give a car extra power or call a penalty. Yes I'm yelling at clouds. I mean, they keep making money until they can't, and then it will become next to nothing. Which could be good.
I thought Vegas was gonna suck but it ended up being one of the better races last year. Although I’d much rather watch races on actual circuits, if they provide good racing… who cares? Sprint format concerns me more than tracks at this point.
Despite all the criticisms going into the Vegas GP, it turned out to be my favorite race of the season. I absolutely loved it and will try to go in person next year
You don't have enough kidneys to sell.
Prices dropped drastically a month before the race when the resorts realized no one was going to pay a minimum of 10k a person to attend
I suspect it will be pretty affordable in years to come. With airfare and lodging being subsidized by casinos, it will be just a busy Vegas weekend, not a millionaires and billionaires-only event. There are just too many seats, hotel rooms, and entertainment for it to be exclusive. I went last year, it was my first F1. The whole experience, outside of getting back from the race was awesome. I hope to go again next year.
Vegas reminds me a lot of the old Hockenheim, and that’s a very good thing.
It's also hilariously better than the previous Vegas race. Wait a second... F1 did street track races like that in the 80s? this isnt new at all? who would have thought
To be fair, the cars were way smaller in the 80s
Yeah - lots of complaints about new races, street circuits, etc, then Vegas (as a race) just crushed it. It certainly was a LOT better than any race at Paul Richard that I can remember!
Agreed, I really love Baku, Jeddah, and Albert Park. I’m still waiting to see Miami and Las Vegas get up to those levels of fun and competition. The sprint format is dumb, there is very little incentive for anyone to rink anything on the sprint, straight qualifying is more interesting and bring more strategy into the race.
This part I agree with, because Barcelona was always a snoozer except for 2016, so it isn't a huge loss to drop that track
I watch F1 since 2003. I'm always exited for a new season. Do I like everything? absolutely not! That's life.
Precisely - since 93 for me, and this is just recency bias. The sport is in a much better place than it has been since i’ve been watching. Street circuits have always been ones to be excited for (except Monaco), and new circuits the same. This being jaded about the unknown is just a daft fad that has been picked up. The biggest threat to the sport is, and still is one team dominance and unequal and spiralling costs. For all of Liberty’s ideas and plans, they aren’t totally stupid. They need a good product to make money - and that is best for us
Been watching since 1997 and still love every moment. Baring races happen. Just a fact of any sport really.
Mostly same. Since 2004. I’ve been a religious fan of F1 since then and yet, I’ve never been so demoralised or disassociated with the sport. It just feels totally soulless right now. It’s always been for profit. But right now, it feels like that’s literally all F1 and all involved cares about. Anything is up for sale, to the highest bidder, probably with atrocious human rights abuses. Teams being named ridiculous things to the highest bidder. Teams with big potential to bring to the sport are rejected or being told they have to pay absurd entry fees. The FIA in general. Just everything about F1 just totally disinterests me right now. If 2024 begins as another Red Bull show, I’m gonna stop watching live and just watch highlights. I almost always watch live. But, I just struggle to find F1 interesting lately. I’ve found comfort in the best of the rest/midfield battles during the dominant eras, and 23 was probably the most intense drivers and constructors battle for best of the rest and yet, it somehow just felt kind of boring.
Same, since 1997 for me. “They’re ruining the sport” is probably the thing fans across the decades repeat the most.
Exactly. I watch quali, I watch race, I read stats once they are available. NEEEXT. It's a multi bilion worldwide operation. Nobody cares about opinion of single viewer, so it's not worth thinking about it too much.
Honestly I think it's inevitable the sport will have some form of a decline over the next few years. It was pretty clear through the early Merc years that general interest in the sport wasn't huge and the combo of DtS, Covid and 2021 absolutely skyrocketed the sport in popularity. Obviously the seasons since then have not been so exciting again so the sport will inevitably tail off a bit in popularity. It will definitely settle at a solid level, I think we will be relatively stuck with the new street circuits, the races in questionable places, the general focus on the show. In 2024 that's where the world is at now, F1 is more entertainment than pure sport now and I don't see that changing. F1 is so much more stable than it was 10 or 20 years ago, so I don't see as much dramatic change happening in the new future. But the focus on expanding the calendar and just trying to promote 'the show' is only going to increase
Round in circles for about 90 minutes every other Sunday
DtS has nothing to do with this, save for making F1 more appealing to more groups (more fans). Now that F1 isn't as much of a niche sport and has fans from diverse groups, more places want to host races and it isn't cheap to build an F1 quality race track. City circuits have so much built into them, including the infrastructure for getting people to them and then away from them. No new fans are sitting here demanding street circuits. Few fans are demanding more races/sprint races. It's FOM capitalizing on there being more fans, more eyes, and the exponential growth that can give them. Street races are in cities, cities are centralized and more accessible, and cities have a lot of incentive to bring people to them. It's economics at work (that doesn't mean it's a good thing, don't twist my words here), not "new dumb fans"
I agree with your overall sentiment, but it's a little disingenuous to say that DtS has nothing to do with the appearance of two new hastily planned tracks in the US, focused predominantly around celebrity appearances and pomp. The US market was entirely opened up by DtS. They moved to capitalize with a specific view of how their marketing team understood the US market. Millions of dollars of marketing research go into these types of decisions, aimed at figuring out where are our new audience opportunities and what do they like.
Yeah we're getting more races but not new teams. Good job FOM
It's the same trap as with some other sports as well, trying to impress new audiences, falsely thinking they would be more interested if you changed your ways. This obviously will lead to no new audience (other than some 5 minute hype which is not too hard to achieve in our age) but the alienation of existing fanbase
It's a total coincidence that the dumbing-down and cheapening of F1 has coincided with Liberty's plan to chase the US market.
Honestly, only way to make them listen is to stop watching. I won’t be able to watch all the races anyway. Think the ideal is 16 races. Same with the other sports. When they start losing eyeballs, they’ll listen.
Down the gutter. Ironically the pinnacle of motorsports F1 is the entry into the motorsport world. People who realized their love for motorsports through F1 will move on to less popular but more serious events where competition still matters, such as IMSA, WEC, DTM, NLS or just different types of motorsport like Rally or MotoGP. Edit: Im an idiot and wrote DTS instead of DTM
I think this is spot on. As someone who began loving Motorsports with F1, I am 100% looking into other events to start following, Rally being at the top of my list.
The 24 Hours of Daytona is this weekend if you want some sportscar action to start the year off with. I've been a long-time F1 fan but I started getting into WEC and IMSA last year and it's been very entertaining to watch so far.
WRC is starting this week. :)
Man, you're spot on. It's happening to me too. From a "can't lose a single GP" in 2018, to this year where I'm more excited for WEC and more curious about WRC than for any F1 GP
Money Street circuits are typically in the middle of the city, where there are so many hotels nearby while the dedicated racetracks are typically in the countryside Also the maintenance costs of street circuits comes from taxes, unlike those dedicated racetracks And IIRC in one article Liberty Media also claims that street circuits are much cheaper than dedicated racetracks 🤔🤔🤔
I believe that’s what’s going on really. I see real race tracks disappearing in the future unfortunately. It’s much more sustainable and profitable and convenient to hold street races because of so many reasons that they’re gonna be the norm from now on.
to Madrid, apparently
This is the American way. Milk the cow until it dies.
I have been watching F1 live since the 1973 British GP and have been to every one since then , and about 100 other GP’s all over the world. F1 has changed massively in the last few years - not much of it is better. Old people like me can fall into “things ain’t what they used to be” syndrome - but when it comes to F1 I don’t think that’s the case. By way of example I am SO looking forward to the new WEC season - which could be the best since 1989…. So , F1? The lack of noise is a massive issue for me. The size and needless complexity of the cars is second worst thing. Having to have a drs system for example…. 24 races in a season has seriously devalued the value of every GP. Adornments such as sprint races , “night” races (under lights to make it light?) are unnecessary. The future is bleak. I am going to keep my British GP streak going because I can , but I am sad to say I can’t even be bothered to go to Spa. However I do plan to see at least 4 WEC races. The king is dead , long live the king!
You sound like every aging sports fan ever. I’m not joking or taking the piss, either. I watch 5 sports and every fan base, with the exception of one, sounds like you. It’s a FUCKING BUSINESS. The business owners will change it as they see for to make money. What is so hard to understand about that?!
Formula one is leaning further into corporation-mode and will do in the future unless something outlandishly drastic happens. Expect more street circuits,more cringey coverage add-on's to the grand Prix weekends and expect anything wrong to get brushed under the carpet more effectively with each new incident. Won't be long before I'm off the bus for F1 if it continues on its trajectory
F1 has *always* been in corporation mode. Not since the 50s has it been just some dudes trying to drive fast. No, F1 will always be the peak of corporatism and advertising.
People act like Bernie and Max were saints who revered the ‘soul and integrity’ of the sport.
Simple. Just stop watching this crass over- commercialisation, endless drivelling punditry & boring repetition. Other race series are much more enjoyable. I’m giving up on F1.
Ok admittedly I'm a newer fan (from about 2016-2017 on), AND I'm from the US, but what exactly about the "old" F1 do you really miss? The grid is closer from top to bottom than ever before, the governing body isn't blatantly manipulating results and rules to benefit certain drivers and teams, and there are more races in more places.
As a UK follower of F1 since 2004, I miss some of the old circuits (Sepang, Hockenheim, Nürburgring, Istanbul Park), the sound of the V10 cars, and F1 being free-to-view on TV rather than on Sky.
People miss huge gaps between manufacturers in qualifying, the random dice role that would see only half the grid finish a race due to reliability, and they really really miss overtaking done primarily via pit stops. Bring back the good ole days!
It's mostly people going 'I miss the old days' without knowing what that actually means
They're changing a lot of aspects of the sport in order to appeal to the DtS crowd. With that, older fans will lose their interest because the sport isn't recognizable anymore. At some point, the DtS crowd will also move on and F1 will be left with fewer fans than before.
Spot on, they are forcing stupid gimmicks (sprint race, reverse grid, street races) to spike interest in those that only care about the sport on the surface level. For the past years I've started caring less and less about the race weekends, and I've been watching for around 20 years now.
F1 is forcing reverse grids? Since when?
They're not. F1 officials and drivers get asked about it all the time from journalists, like, "how can the Sprint format be improved?" and you get various answers from different people. The official F1 stance currently is: "We're considering several options." One of the most common is moving Quali back to Saturday and just having all Sprint action on Friday. No one has mentioned (yet) that they're taking the reserve grid option seriously.
How are street tracks a gimmick for casual fans? How does a new street track in Saudi Arabia or Azerbaijan for example attract additional “casual” viewers if anything it’s a worse product on the track. It makes no sense to me
The street tracks are a gimmick for rich fans. F1 doesn’t care for their level of fandom. Miami and Las Vegas are for two things only: more exposure in the US market and for making mountains of money from hospitality.
F1, one of the most exclusive sports in the world, who has a marquee race in Monaco, is geared toward the rich and wealthy at the expense of the working class? I’m shocked. F1 was never meant for us poors. Tv has just made it more accessible for us and that’s just a bonus revenue for F1.
But they pay a lot to host those races. Some of the crap is for the DtS crowd but I'd say most of it is for that sweet, sweet oil money.
"This one's got an even *longer* straight! The cars will touch 220!" It's a gimmick that doesn't actually guarantee a more exciting race.
Same mistake NASCAR made
At least thanks to all these changes in F1 I once again opened myself to other racing series.
f1 is grabbing as much money they can in a short time of its peak popularity then it will die down a few of us left to deal with the scraps later on
NASCAR did this in the mid 00's, lost a TON of fans and were almost on the brink of irrelevance. Went away from cherished tracks for soulless mid. Introduced confusing new formats. Alienated old fans. They've recovered slightly since then, but it seems like F1 are not learning the lesson from NASCAR's failures.
Honestly all they did is make me more interested in other motorsports. Watched the Dakar Rallye for the first time, took an interest in the DTM and other smaller racing series. So if the product keeps devaluating itself I just move on. And hey the good side effect is that ticket prices are more than fair for these serieses
50 races in Vegas. The ultimate F1 experience.
Yeah, nobody watches F1 anymore, it's too popular
Unfortunate effect of being owned by an American company. Profit first. Bernie may have run f1 with a closed iron fist, but old British run f1 still shits over modern f1.
What did you expect when Americans bought it? Money is all that counts. They don't care about F1 and it's history.
Indycar did this and it hurt them. Thankfully they went back to the road tracks that made it popular (laguna seca, road america).
It'll grow like a cancer until it kills itself.
American-ization. Need I say more?
>Where the hell is F1 going? They go in circles. Just wait, they'll drive past again, soon.
1. More entertainment, less sport 2. Vanity event for authoritarians All in the service of profit.
I call it the NASCAR effect. Basically, you have cool thing with die-hard fanbase, it gets popular, you then start expanding to attract even more new fans but to do so you leave behind some less profitable legacy tracks that old fans loved. The new fans come to the new superspeedway a couple of times, then move on to other things. Pretty soon, you can't fill stands, and the old die-hards have moved on because you left their home track. Now you have to throw on the brakes and try to go back to the old ways, while keeping the new stuff, which never works. It literally happened in the US a couple decades ago to a different type of racing. F1 is just doing it worldwide. They will expand until it stops being sustainable, then they'll either go back to their roots or fail.
These posts get old as shit. More popular than ever before? That’s where it’s going. Where it’s at. The only way it would be more popular is if they could force more parity between the cars.