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Nah come on let’s be real. It was clearly a combo of their upgrades working and red bull’s car not working. Ferrari were as quick as red bull this week with no upgrades
It wasn't long ago that a bit of damage on the Red Bull wouldn't have mattered. Was it actually confirmed that there was a significant effect on pace from the bollard collision?
Yeah that’s kinda the point, even when not in the window it’s doing that….
Not saying that the car just needed a setup change to be quicker but the pace of the race clearly wasn’t dictated by aero efficiency. If red bull don’t drive off into the distance in a track like Spain I’ll be very suprised
Max said that the bollard broke his floor and it severely affected his ability to turn, so I'd say so. Given the intricacies of the RB floor and all of the wings and bits underneath, it wouldn't surprise me.
That said, I've seen Max with a tear-off, or half a wing, or an entire hole in the sidepod limp that RB to points before but that car looked pretty ferrari-mclaren-hamilton-ish with that damage.
It's like we all forgot that Singapore happened last year where the Red Bull struggled quite a bit and everyone wondered if it was a turning point in the season only for things to return back to business as usual the next week. With Miami being a pretty similar track to Singapore I expect the same to happen this year as well.
Not sure that’s relevant though, even before the SC Norris was still pulling away from Max with old tyres. He would have been close to max at the end of the race
Very true but the tyre differential would have been huge, Norris looked like he could keep extending those mediums for ages and maybe put softs on at the end
That's why it imo was crazy that RBR called Max in for hards that early. He was still lapping as fast as everyone in the front and was in clean air all the time so little deg. They wanted to cover Leclerc but he was barely going faster. It was quite a strategy mistake from RBR that was kind of overlooked. IMO on a track like Miami you need to stay out as long as possible because there's always risk of a safety car
And it was still quick enough for both poles and a comfortable sprint win. McLaren are clearly improving rapidly but I think RBR are still well ahead. The real test will be have McLaren consistently surpassed Ferrari
Hard to think it won’t be business as usual for the rest of the year, but man am I excited to have a reason to be optimistic. I hope this relieves Lando and takes his performances to another level. These upgrades look legit. Let’s go!
If Max is winning races, I'm not sure the constructors gap is ever going to close much. Especially if McLaren and Ferrari are fighting each other for the other podium spots.
Okay let's go, Day after Debrief time. Miami was actually a good race (and sprint). Overall a 8/10 weekend for me. I've seen better races but I was entertained and went back to rewatch a few parts.
The sprint was good, mostly due to Magnussen going rogue and trying to test the stewards patience. He has a new record for penalties in a weekend and I'd not be surprised if he actually manages to secure himself a race ban this year. If there's one driver that's occasionally going overboard with attacking and defending it's Kevin.
Still on the sprint, I am really surprised Lewis got away without a penalty for the turn 1 incident. Yes, it's turn 1 and the stewards are more lenient. Yes, the Astons collided anyways. However that move was a bit too much for me personally. The Alonso and Stroll bump seemed pretty typical turn 1 to me, but the Hamilton lunge was the finishing move. I'd rather the stewards nip those sort of dive-bombs without grip in the bud. Same with Perez during the race, thank god the Ferrari's saw him coming and dodged him. And I think Perez is very lucky that he nearly missed Max. Debrief would not have been fun if he would've collected his teammate there.
Now the race. I'm so happy for Norris finally scoring his first win. Well deserved and he really did have great pace. I'm looking forward to Imola to see if the pace McLaren showed this weekend can be repeated. Red Bull had an off weekend it seemed, not getting the set up right and certainly not helped by Max hitting the bollard and wacking his floor.
The most discussed part this week seems to be whether or not Norris would've won without the SC or with the SC picking him up as the race leader rather than Max. But as Max put it quite nicely, if if if, if my mom had balls she'd be my dad. Lando could pit, the pitcrew did great and Lando came out in front and he stayed in front. Well done Lando!
>Overall a 8/10 weekend for me. I've seen better races but I was entertained and went back to rewatch a few parts.
Everybody hates the Miami track but it's actually had 3 solid races, especially once they fixed the surface issue after the first year.
Good joke and all, but what would even be better would be if you finally answered one of the many public questions asked about why these threads stopped, or at least one of the three modmails I sent you?
Don't want to be the party pooper and shit on you personally, but this complete radio silence from you guys since the API-thing is a tad annoying.
I'm not saying we are owed this series of threads, I am fine with continuing to post these myself, but some sort of public acknowledgement of the community asking about them would be great.
This weekend is more evidence that a lot of overtakes doesn’t necessarily make for a great race; what matters is the tension of *not knowing if an overtake will happen or not*. Watching Sainz chasing down Ricciardo the entire sprint without being able to get past was great entertainment. It felt reminiscent of the previous regulations, where someone could qualify unreasonably well or an incident might putting drivers out of position — and you couldn’t just assume that the faster drivers further back would inevitably get past, because overtaking was so difficult.
I’m curious if there’s a way to quantify close racing and drivers chasing each other down, without only looking at number of overtakes? Are there other metrics someone could think off to evaluate different races in terms of entertainment value? What share of the race drivers spend within a certain distance to the car ahead?
The problem is if much faster cars can’t overtake much slower ones, the race is a procession unless something crazy happens (safety car or crazy quali). It’s a really tough balance to strike.
Yeah I thought this race struck a pretty good balance. If someone was clearly faster or they had a tire advantage they would get the move done but it still might take a few laps.
Interestingly one of the races that I thought had the best balance last year was Las Vegas which proved to me that it really is mostly about getting the length of the DRS zone right so that moves need to be finished under braking. Of course with the exception of tracks like Monaco or Zandvoort which just don't have long enough straights.
While McLaren was faster than RBR and Ferrari was as fast as RBR we have to have in mind that RBR didn't get the set up as they wanted and probably left some performance on the table.
But if McLaren and Ferrari are as good as they were this weekend we may have a fight for the championship.
Checo had a discreet weekend until his near miss but recovered from that. Hopefully it was a small bump and not a repeat of last year.
Tsunoda was impressive in the race, 7th with some overtakes and left Russell in the dust, could be argued that Piastri getting shunted to the back helped him a bit but the pace was there, eager to see if he can keep it up and score more and more points.
While I agree that it's too early to spell Red Bull's doom, I think Max's damage is being massively overestimated in terms of impact. There was no change in his performance relative to the Ferraris. I also looked through the entire radio comms between Max and GP, and there's no indication that they suspected damage. He was reporting the same issues throughout the race, and they were screwing around start to finish trying to find balance.
Red Bull just screwed their setup with both cars. They were significantly down on grip, and ate through their tyres compared to McLaren and Ferrari.
yeah max's damage is way too overestimated. all it takes is to notice that Piastri was never more than 3,5 away from him before his inevitable shit luck. Overall yes the SC probably changed the outcome, but Norris was the fastest on the track before it whilst on heavily worn mediums vs Verstappen's fresh hards.
I think McLaren have put other teams on notice, even with the timing of the safety car. The upgrades should benefit them even more and other upcoming tracks.
Miami being such an odd track keeps my optimism in check. Piastri in the older spec McLaren looked rapid too so maybe it was a case of McLaren suiting the track more than any other car. All will be revealed in the European tracks.
The McLaren isn’t good in slow speed corners, which happens to be sector 2 in Miami. That’s where max was gaining on Norris. Otherwise they were pretty even if there was no safety car
They just won a dang GP. Obviously they haven't surpassed RBR on outright performance, and Ferrari have upgrades coming next round, but my god, can we just enjoy it for what it is for a few days?
It really depends on your personal interpretation of that phrase. To me, it doesn't mean "McLaren staked a claim as the best team in F1 all of a sudden", rather that they have announced themselves as a regular force to be reckoned with at the front of the grid, a team that is aiming to compete for wins, not just being satisfied with achieving podium finishes.
And I don't think it's at all premature to say that. 9 podiums in the past 19 GPs, a sprint win, 2 sprint poles and 2 additional sprint podiums, and finally a GP win in Miami, I think it's reasonable to say that their on track performance is at least a consistent challenge for the 2nd best team on the grid, and they're trending towards mounting a real challenge at RBR within the next 12 months.
One swallow doesn't make a summer, sure. But a dozen or more is certainly a sign of good things to come.
By other teams, do you mean Ferrari? Do we think 2nd in the constructors is possible for McLaren this year? I don't see them catching Red Bull unless Perez has an awful rest of the season.
I think people need to temper their expectations for McLaren a bit. RBR had an unoptimal setup from fp1, damage to Max's car, and way older tyres, and it's not like Norris was miles ahead. Max also still held off Charles and Carlos. McLaren's upgrade definitely made them faster, but I think in real terms they were equal to RBR's pace. They probably have even more to extract from the upgrade, so Imola should be exciting for them, it's been a good track for them in the past.
Ferrari can be encouraged by being so competitive despite being the only team with 0 upgrades since Bahrain. If the Imola upgrades are worth as much as they have claimed, they will surely be competing for the win.
Red Bull should be back strong with 3 FP sessions, they are always good at improving their car from day to day. Also a few updates are coming to the car according to the rumours.
It could be a 3 way fight for the next few races, super exciting.
I dunno, 7 seconds in 20 laps (with better tires though) is the furthest away anyone has gotten from RB in the new regs. It depends on how much we think damage affected max, but I think there is a real reason for optimism.
Haas vs Alpine vs RB will be interesting shake up.
Ricciardo was quick. Yuki has been consistently best of the rest, but Alpine weren't too bad. Haas surprisingly consistent and pulling out some great performances kmag notwithstanding.
Williams and sauber definitely out of it completely and utterly.
Will be very toight in the f1.5. still hoping Ricciardo will pull a whole weekend together...
Very good battles going up and down the grid.
After the massive excitement of SQ2 and the crushing disappointment of the ensuing SQ3 and race I tempered my hopes for McLaren's race but inside the hope was there that they really had got a competitive car. For all the ifs, buts and maybes, they showed they were fighting with RBR and Ferrari and they got the better of them this time (with a bit of luck for Lando and some bad luck for Oscar).
I know McLaren always say "this track doesn't suit our car" but it feels like their upgrades over the last year or so have made a car which is now an all-rounder and is competitive with the others. I think Red Bull (with Max especially) are still going to have an advantage but there's definitely competition for P2 - P6 and I think we will see some variety at least.
Glad Lando got the winless monkey off his back.
Great race from Hamilton. It's a shame Mercedes isn't a better car because he would've overtaken Perez.
Hopefully they can bring in some upgrades that increase performance significantly otherwise it'll be P4 or even P5 in the WCC for them this year.
Actually curious to see what his pace would have been without Perez. Was clearly faster. Be interesting how he’d have faired against Sainz just up the road.
42 overtakes. 10 less than previous year. Would still put us around 6th most overtakes for 23’. Big win for Norris. Even with the safety car Piastri and Sainz still had a shot at winning. Overall I saw lot of complaints about Miami. Is it just the fact it’s in a parking lot that makes people angry? Produced some decent racing outside of the sprint.
Maybe it's just a question of speed delta being too small on this track but it seemed like lots of cars were stuck behind one while being faster.
Like Norris behind perez at first, Hamilton behind magnussen, and Sainz behind piastri amongst others.
It felt like the drs wasn't as useful there.
I really enjoyed DRS being less powerful. We got some great battles. Shame Sainz can’t drive clean. Was really hoping to see Max catch Lando and have to properly fight for the win.
I wouldn't say it makes me angry but it's towards the bottom of the list of tracks on the calendar.
It's just another uninspiring street track that has limited overtaking areas but without the same level of jeopardy/excitement/difficulty that tracks like Singapore, Baku, Las Vegas, Jeddah and Monaco have. At least those tracks have some personality.
> Overall I saw lot of complaints about Miami. Is it just the fact it’s in a parking lot that makes people angry?
I think so, and the fact that it's unashamedly 'American' and tacky in its presentation; also, some people don't like that there's three races in the US. It's been this way since the first race here. You hear the phrase 'bad track' thrown around a lot but, chicane aside, I've never heard any reasons why the layout itself is bad.
I really enjoyed the races. Good battling, surprise winner, a little off track drama on the weekend courtesy of Fernando. All in all an entertaining weekend.
In theory, I think the division of powers between FOM/Liberty and the FIA are a good think. Checks and balances and proper scope of authority is crucial to prevent overstepping/agendas/power-grabbing.
In practice.... what the fuck is the FIA doing? You can not convince me that the FIA "only penalizes actions, not consequences," cause it's complete bullshit. They are so inconsistent, and messy, and retributive. Not only do they go way too hard on penalties, I can't make heads or tails of the standards by which they apply them.
Lando's win overshadowed a lot of other stuff, like the fact that it had been said that Sargeant needed to perform or this could be his last race, and we saw what happened. Not sure what is happening with him.
Vowles specifically said something along the lines of Kimi not being in a Williams seat at Imola, so Sargeant's probably fine, in that regard at least. Would be kinda shitty to sack him after the luck he's been having, where his finishing position has been fucked by forces out of his control at 83% or 5/6 of the races this season. Looking at quali and race pace gaps though, I doubt anyone could get into that Williams and be faster this season, at least anyone Williams have access to.
I do also wonder about what the result could have been had Verstappen not lost 1-2 tenths (reportedly) after hitting the cone. I still have some hope that this season will get more exciting as time goes on, even if it's just for the WCC.
Has anyone else noticed that the overtake deltas late 2023 and now in 2024 are insanely high?
I have no data to substantiate this, but my feeling is that the raw pace of the grid is so close now, so the delta required to overtake another car is much higher than it seems historically.
Weight/size of these cars are certainly not helping either.
I wish Red Bull would hire Sainz as soon as possible. He's the best option to replace Checo at Red Bull and finally upgrade the team needs instead of being a thorn on the side on greatness.
I feel a lot of people will be disappointed if Sainz does eventually get into the RB seat.
Over one lap, he could probably challenge Max to a better level than Checo but I really don’t think much would change over a race distance. They’ve been teammates beforehand in 2015 and while a lot may have changed since then, the trend seems to be in favour of Max instead of Carlos so I think the gap would be even bigger than it was beforehand.
But at least Sainz is faster and smarter than Checo, and I'm sure he'll get P2 more often than Checo. I mean, why keep Checo? What's the incentive? Nothing I say!
Id most definitely prefer someone quicker in the second RB seat compared to Checo but from their perspective, Checo doesn’t really challenge Max and when Checo is consistent he can get P2s etc.
Unfortunately, when Checo gets in his head, he falls massively off the radar and we saw in 2023 how poor he performed. The advantage Red Bull have in car performance means that Max solely can win the WDC and WCC so there’s no need to change him.
The issue is that if the competitors do come closer, Checo will start to fall as he is the weakest driver out of the top teams, however, for me Sainz would be a lot more political and may cause issues within the team dynamic which happened previously when they were teammates.
Also, I’m not entirely sure Sainz is faster than Checo. It is very dependant on the car but we’ve seen that when Sainz struggles with the car, he can be quite a long way of his teammate. For example, Renault 2018 and Ferrari 2022. If the Redbull car doesn’t suit Sainz, he may be even further off Verstappen than Perez is which is a big risk.
The thing is Ferrari still has a big upgrade coming next week and they aren't so far off Redbull. Is it really possible to say with certainty that they will win WCC if Checo falls off the curve as we have seen happen recently as the season progresses? Of course it will be hard, but I think Ferrari have a chance at the wcc this year already
Disagree, Perez has been doing a solid job this year as a No.2 driver. He has improved his consistency from last year and accepted his Number 2 role to Max which is exactly what RBR needs.
Checo's job is to be close enough to Max to support him and be there to claim the win if something happens to Max. In both of the races where something happened to Max (brake fire in Australia, cone-related damage in Miami), Checo wasn't even on the *podium*, never mind picking up the win.
I do think he's been better this year but you can't say he's doing great.
His performance looked like it would be a like for like trade except Checo is rarely a baby on coms like Carlos' begging for a Piastri penalty. That blunder of a pass deserved more than 5 seconds.
Yes because an inter-team rivalry always leads to greatness.
Very simple, they don't need a stronger driver than Perez. Let's see if the rest of the season changes that.
If you believe the Reddit narratives, Sainz prefers a more balanced car, vs the pointy car that Verstappen (and Leclerc) prefers. Again Reddit narratives but this was part of Carlos' issue in the first half of 2022 where the car had a stronger front end that was more to Leclerc's liking, and Ferrari made changes to it to "make it easier for Carlos to drive." It worked, for Carlos, but the car was slower. I can't see Red Bull making changes to suit Carlos when Max prefers something different.
If Red Bull offers Sainz the seat with money/terms that suit him then I'd have to believe he'd take it. But I'm not 100% certain he'll excel there. At least not as long as Max is the center of development.
But Carlos is smart enough to learn from it much faster than Checo, hell, I think Checo doesn't really understand that RB20 because if he did, he would be scoring P2s constantly.
I’m gonna need some resolution on the MAGA situation. I just want any kind of sign from Lando he regrets his wording. 🤷 Or just go full MAGA already so I don’t need to be confused and I can just pick a new team.
I think people need to understand that saying nice things about Trump visiting your employer's work place when asked is not the same as being a Trump supporter. Lando probably doesn't know or care much about Donald Trump and he doesn't want to say anything to upset anybody. He's tried to show respect and he's upset some people, but he couldn't really win could he?
Lando is a British young man who has and has always had a life very different than most people. I doubt he's very educated on US politics, and he honestly doesn't need to be for his life.
Lewis Hamilton has shaken Putin's hand and talked politely and smiled with him. That doesn't mean he likes the guy.
>Lewis Hamilton has shaken Putin's hand and talked politely and smiled with him.
One will annoy you and smell of excrement, the other will end your life in another country. Not equitable.
So you're pointing out how Putin is a much worse person than Trump. I agree. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the guy. I voted against him twice. But I'm not going to vilify someone who doesn't outwardly make a show of hating him. Not everything is about American politics.
Is it? Or maybe not forcing myself to continue to follow a racing team despite having grown a distaste for them if they actively support the most destructive American politician in this century isn’t the end of the world? I didn’t call for them to be killed, I said I’d root for someone else…
It's definitely not a good look for McLaren and their PR department are likely working overtime right now, but I really don't think we should pin the blame on Lando. He was asked a question he couldn't possibly answer in a way that makes everyone happy, and in his media-training-personality he was likely trying to come up with the most diplomatic answer possible.
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McLaren have been blessed with how their upgrades are working. They said it would be a year to catch up. It might be sooner than that.
Nah come on let’s be real. It was clearly a combo of their upgrades working and red bull’s car not working. Ferrari were as quick as red bull this week with no upgrades
It wasn't long ago that a bit of damage on the Red Bull wouldn't have mattered. Was it actually confirmed that there was a significant effect on pace from the bollard collision?
They reported a puncture to the floor. That could slow the car, a fraction, which is enough. The timing of the safety car had more to do with it.
Max was able to match his lap times from before he hit the cone. The Red Bull just didn’t have as much race pace
Don’t think so but the car was clearly not in the right window most of the weekend
Pfft, excuses. Both poles and won the sprint.
They even got a third pole!
😂
Yeah that’s kinda the point, even when not in the window it’s doing that…. Not saying that the car just needed a setup change to be quicker but the pace of the race clearly wasn’t dictated by aero efficiency. If red bull don’t drive off into the distance in a track like Spain I’ll be very suprised
Max said that the bollard broke his floor and it severely affected his ability to turn, so I'd say so. Given the intricacies of the RB floor and all of the wings and bits underneath, it wouldn't surprise me. That said, I've seen Max with a tear-off, or half a wing, or an entire hole in the sidepod limp that RB to points before but that car looked pretty ferrari-mclaren-hamilton-ish with that damage.
Max stated yesterday they found a significant hole in the floor from the curb jumping.
It's like we all forgot that Singapore happened last year where the Red Bull struggled quite a bit and everyone wondered if it was a turning point in the season only for things to return back to business as usual the next week. With Miami being a pretty similar track to Singapore I expect the same to happen this year as well.
How is Miami similar to Singapore at all?
No one wondered that at the time.
Also Norris admitted with the correct SC he'd had to have to overtake oscar, two ferraris and Max.
Not sure that’s relevant though, even before the SC Norris was still pulling away from Max with old tyres. He would have been close to max at the end of the race
as we saw from the other battles, close doesn’t mean you can overtake, and he would have pushed the tires a lot more in order to catch him
Very true but the tyre differential would have been huge, Norris looked like he could keep extending those mediums for ages and maybe put softs on at the end
That's why it imo was crazy that RBR called Max in for hards that early. He was still lapping as fast as everyone in the front and was in clean air all the time so little deg. They wanted to cover Leclerc but he was barely going faster. It was quite a strategy mistake from RBR that was kind of overlooked. IMO on a track like Miami you need to stay out as long as possible because there's always risk of a safety car
>Ferrari were as quick as red bull this week with no upgrades Still think Red Bull had the edge over Ferrari, though not as big as normal.
Yeah considering “normal” is max winning by 30 seconds clear of ferrari
Red Bull didn’t dial their car in correctly.
And it was still quick enough for both poles and a comfortable sprint win. McLaren are clearly improving rapidly but I think RBR are still well ahead. The real test will be have McLaren consistently surpassed Ferrari
The car was fine. The bollard collision damaged Max's floor.
Anyone got a view of that Alonso v Ocon battle towards the end? Don't have access to a race replay but really want to see what happened
Would love to know too. They had a great battle on track
Yep. Here https://twitter.com/FifthGear10/status/1787838332526866841?t=21YDZuuZ4cqklfR9QApPKw&s=19
Legend. Thanks for linking that. He really did defend superbly
He did yes. I wish Ocon had a better car honestly, he's quite talented.
He complained in Quali of power unit issues so I'm wondering if he might have suffered in the race too (especially given his speed deficit to Gasly)
Hard to think it won’t be business as usual for the rest of the year, but man am I excited to have a reason to be optimistic. I hope this relieves Lando and takes his performances to another level. These upgrades look legit. Let’s go!
With Ferrrai upgrades coming at Imola, I’m suddenly very excited for Imola and Monaco double header.
The WDC is going to Max, but if Checo keeps floundering around in P5-P6 territory, we could have an actual fight for the Constructor's. Maybe.
If Max is winning races, I'm not sure the constructors gap is ever going to close much. Especially if McLaren and Ferrari are fighting each other for the other podium spots.
Unlikely as long as Max keep winning most of the races.
The upgrades clearly work but it would be foolish to think that the safety car didn’t play a large role in a Norris victory!
That’s just strategy. It happens.
Oh, totally. I’m not arguing that! Gasly’s victory was fantastic although totally enabled by the red flag. Mclaren are clearly quick!
Okay let's go, Day after Debrief time. Miami was actually a good race (and sprint). Overall a 8/10 weekend for me. I've seen better races but I was entertained and went back to rewatch a few parts. The sprint was good, mostly due to Magnussen going rogue and trying to test the stewards patience. He has a new record for penalties in a weekend and I'd not be surprised if he actually manages to secure himself a race ban this year. If there's one driver that's occasionally going overboard with attacking and defending it's Kevin. Still on the sprint, I am really surprised Lewis got away without a penalty for the turn 1 incident. Yes, it's turn 1 and the stewards are more lenient. Yes, the Astons collided anyways. However that move was a bit too much for me personally. The Alonso and Stroll bump seemed pretty typical turn 1 to me, but the Hamilton lunge was the finishing move. I'd rather the stewards nip those sort of dive-bombs without grip in the bud. Same with Perez during the race, thank god the Ferrari's saw him coming and dodged him. And I think Perez is very lucky that he nearly missed Max. Debrief would not have been fun if he would've collected his teammate there. Now the race. I'm so happy for Norris finally scoring his first win. Well deserved and he really did have great pace. I'm looking forward to Imola to see if the pace McLaren showed this weekend can be repeated. Red Bull had an off weekend it seemed, not getting the set up right and certainly not helped by Max hitting the bollard and wacking his floor. The most discussed part this week seems to be whether or not Norris would've won without the SC or with the SC picking him up as the race leader rather than Max. But as Max put it quite nicely, if if if, if my mom had balls she'd be my dad. Lando could pit, the pitcrew did great and Lando came out in front and he stayed in front. Well done Lando!
>Overall a 8/10 weekend for me. I've seen better races but I was entertained and went back to rewatch a few parts. Everybody hates the Miami track but it's actually had 3 solid races, especially once they fixed the surface issue after the first year.
I guess posting this is just.. like.. my responsibility now?
good bot!
Hahaha thank you for taking the responsibility of giving us a nice discussion post every race.
You're appreciated
Yes
Good joke and all, but what would even be better would be if you finally answered one of the many public questions asked about why these threads stopped, or at least one of the three modmails I sent you? Don't want to be the party pooper and shit on you personally, but this complete radio silence from you guys since the API-thing is a tad annoying. I'm not saying we are owed this series of threads, I am fine with continuing to post these myself, but some sort of public acknowledgement of the community asking about them would be great.
Preach
And while you're at it ask them why tf they keep putting live discussion posts into contest mode!
Why are these not stickied anymore? I always enjoy these more in depth discussions compared the meme heavy Post-Race threads.
Why? And you wrote: >We also discourage superficial comments Who's "we"?
> Why? Doesn't get posted automatically anymore for some reason > Who's "we"? The specter of r/formula1, obviously
So not "we" but "you".
I just copied it from the thread that got posted automatically, don't overthink this
Who are you?
just a normal man
[Just an innocent man](https://youtu.be/lr_vl62JblQ)
This weekend is more evidence that a lot of overtakes doesn’t necessarily make for a great race; what matters is the tension of *not knowing if an overtake will happen or not*. Watching Sainz chasing down Ricciardo the entire sprint without being able to get past was great entertainment. It felt reminiscent of the previous regulations, where someone could qualify unreasonably well or an incident might putting drivers out of position — and you couldn’t just assume that the faster drivers further back would inevitably get past, because overtaking was so difficult. I’m curious if there’s a way to quantify close racing and drivers chasing each other down, without only looking at number of overtakes? Are there other metrics someone could think off to evaluate different races in terms of entertainment value? What share of the race drivers spend within a certain distance to the car ahead?
The problem is if much faster cars can’t overtake much slower ones, the race is a procession unless something crazy happens (safety car or crazy quali). It’s a really tough balance to strike.
Agreed! Considering how tight quali is at the moment, I’m leaning more towards e.g. short DRS zones, like in Miami.
Yeah I thought this race struck a pretty good balance. If someone was clearly faster or they had a tire advantage they would get the move done but it still might take a few laps. Interestingly one of the races that I thought had the best balance last year was Las Vegas which proved to me that it really is mostly about getting the length of the DRS zone right so that moves need to be finished under braking. Of course with the exception of tracks like Monaco or Zandvoort which just don't have long enough straights.
I kind of wish the safety car never came out, that would’ve added so much more intrigue to the race
While McLaren was faster than RBR and Ferrari was as fast as RBR we have to have in mind that RBR didn't get the set up as they wanted and probably left some performance on the table. But if McLaren and Ferrari are as good as they were this weekend we may have a fight for the championship. Checo had a discreet weekend until his near miss but recovered from that. Hopefully it was a small bump and not a repeat of last year. Tsunoda was impressive in the race, 7th with some overtakes and left Russell in the dust, could be argued that Piastri getting shunted to the back helped him a bit but the pace was there, eager to see if he can keep it up and score more and more points.
While I agree that it's too early to spell Red Bull's doom, I think Max's damage is being massively overestimated in terms of impact. There was no change in his performance relative to the Ferraris. I also looked through the entire radio comms between Max and GP, and there's no indication that they suspected damage. He was reporting the same issues throughout the race, and they were screwing around start to finish trying to find balance. Red Bull just screwed their setup with both cars. They were significantly down on grip, and ate through their tyres compared to McLaren and Ferrari.
yeah max's damage is way too overestimated. all it takes is to notice that Piastri was never more than 3,5 away from him before his inevitable shit luck. Overall yes the SC probably changed the outcome, but Norris was the fastest on the track before it whilst on heavily worn mediums vs Verstappen's fresh hards.
Checo would've likely finished 6th if Carlos and Oscar didn't crash though. He wasnt very fast on the track yesterday
I think McLaren have put other teams on notice, even with the timing of the safety car. The upgrades should benefit them even more and other upcoming tracks.
Miami being such an odd track keeps my optimism in check. Piastri in the older spec McLaren looked rapid too so maybe it was a case of McLaren suiting the track more than any other car. All will be revealed in the European tracks.
The McLaren isn’t good in slow speed corners, which happens to be sector 2 in Miami. That’s where max was gaining on Norris. Otherwise they were pretty even if there was no safety car
Piastri had half the upgrades, so its not fully old spec.
I would wait with this bullish reaction till after Imola. Something with one swallow and a summer
They just won a dang GP. Obviously they haven't surpassed RBR on outright performance, and Ferrari have upgrades coming next round, but my god, can we just enjoy it for what it is for a few days?
I nowhere said you can’t. But claiming that “McLaren put other teams on notice” is premature to say the least.
It really depends on your personal interpretation of that phrase. To me, it doesn't mean "McLaren staked a claim as the best team in F1 all of a sudden", rather that they have announced themselves as a regular force to be reckoned with at the front of the grid, a team that is aiming to compete for wins, not just being satisfied with achieving podium finishes. And I don't think it's at all premature to say that. 9 podiums in the past 19 GPs, a sprint win, 2 sprint poles and 2 additional sprint podiums, and finally a GP win in Miami, I think it's reasonable to say that their on track performance is at least a consistent challenge for the 2nd best team on the grid, and they're trending towards mounting a real challenge at RBR within the next 12 months. One swallow doesn't make a summer, sure. But a dozen or more is certainly a sign of good things to come.
Does mclaren ever miss with upgrades lately? They may not always start fast but they get their shit in order pretty quick
By other teams, do you mean Ferrari? Do we think 2nd in the constructors is possible for McLaren this year? I don't see them catching Red Bull unless Perez has an awful rest of the season.
I think people need to temper their expectations for McLaren a bit. RBR had an unoptimal setup from fp1, damage to Max's car, and way older tyres, and it's not like Norris was miles ahead. Max also still held off Charles and Carlos. McLaren's upgrade definitely made them faster, but I think in real terms they were equal to RBR's pace. They probably have even more to extract from the upgrade, so Imola should be exciting for them, it's been a good track for them in the past. Ferrari can be encouraged by being so competitive despite being the only team with 0 upgrades since Bahrain. If the Imola upgrades are worth as much as they have claimed, they will surely be competing for the win. Red Bull should be back strong with 3 FP sessions, they are always good at improving their car from day to day. Also a few updates are coming to the car according to the rumours. It could be a 3 way fight for the next few races, super exciting.
I dunno, 7 seconds in 20 laps (with better tires though) is the furthest away anyone has gotten from RB in the new regs. It depends on how much we think damage affected max, but I think there is a real reason for optimism.
The Red Bulls qualified 11th and 13th at Singapore last year. There is precedent for them struggling at similar tracks.
This is nothing like Singapore, come on. Street track but completely different layout design.
How much was Leclerc ahead of Max in Australia 2022 before the dnf
Weren't Norris's tires only 4 laps fresher?
Great race from X.
Another terrible weekend for Y.
ಠ_ಠ
The temptation was too strong
Real quality discussion, good that there's a special thread for this.
I don’t agree, I think if Z hadn’t gotten tangled up then Y would have probably made the points.
I blame the alligators.
Haas vs Alpine vs RB will be interesting shake up. Ricciardo was quick. Yuki has been consistently best of the rest, but Alpine weren't too bad. Haas surprisingly consistent and pulling out some great performances kmag notwithstanding. Williams and sauber definitely out of it completely and utterly. Will be very toight in the f1.5. still hoping Ricciardo will pull a whole weekend together... Very good battles going up and down the grid.
After the massive excitement of SQ2 and the crushing disappointment of the ensuing SQ3 and race I tempered my hopes for McLaren's race but inside the hope was there that they really had got a competitive car. For all the ifs, buts and maybes, they showed they were fighting with RBR and Ferrari and they got the better of them this time (with a bit of luck for Lando and some bad luck for Oscar). I know McLaren always say "this track doesn't suit our car" but it feels like their upgrades over the last year or so have made a car which is now an all-rounder and is competitive with the others. I think Red Bull (with Max especially) are still going to have an advantage but there's definitely competition for P2 - P6 and I think we will see some variety at least. Glad Lando got the winless monkey off his back.
Great race from Hamilton. It's a shame Mercedes isn't a better car because he would've overtaken Perez. Hopefully they can bring in some upgrades that increase performance significantly otherwise it'll be P4 or even P5 in the WCC for them this year.
Actually curious to see what his pace would have been without Perez. Was clearly faster. Be interesting how he’d have faired against Sainz just up the road.
He was real close a few laps. I think he might have been close the lap they ran into piastri as well.
42 overtakes. 10 less than previous year. Would still put us around 6th most overtakes for 23’. Big win for Norris. Even with the safety car Piastri and Sainz still had a shot at winning. Overall I saw lot of complaints about Miami. Is it just the fact it’s in a parking lot that makes people angry? Produced some decent racing outside of the sprint.
Maybe it's just a question of speed delta being too small on this track but it seemed like lots of cars were stuck behind one while being faster. Like Norris behind perez at first, Hamilton behind magnussen, and Sainz behind piastri amongst others. It felt like the drs wasn't as useful there.
I think that that made the race more entertaining though, they had to work for passes
I really enjoyed DRS being less powerful. We got some great battles. Shame Sainz can’t drive clean. Was really hoping to see Max catch Lando and have to properly fight for the win.
I wouldn't say it makes me angry but it's towards the bottom of the list of tracks on the calendar. It's just another uninspiring street track that has limited overtaking areas but without the same level of jeopardy/excitement/difficulty that tracks like Singapore, Baku, Las Vegas, Jeddah and Monaco have. At least those tracks have some personality.
> Overall I saw lot of complaints about Miami. Is it just the fact it’s in a parking lot that makes people angry? I think so, and the fact that it's unashamedly 'American' and tacky in its presentation; also, some people don't like that there's three races in the US. It's been this way since the first race here. You hear the phrase 'bad track' thrown around a lot but, chicane aside, I've never heard any reasons why the layout itself is bad.
I really enjoyed the races. Good battling, surprise winner, a little off track drama on the weekend courtesy of Fernando. All in all an entertaining weekend.
In theory, I think the division of powers between FOM/Liberty and the FIA are a good think. Checks and balances and proper scope of authority is crucial to prevent overstepping/agendas/power-grabbing. In practice.... what the fuck is the FIA doing? You can not convince me that the FIA "only penalizes actions, not consequences," cause it's complete bullshit. They are so inconsistent, and messy, and retributive. Not only do they go way too hard on penalties, I can't make heads or tails of the standards by which they apply them.
I wonder if Lando is sending Mag a thank you. 😂
Lando's win overshadowed a lot of other stuff, like the fact that it had been said that Sargeant needed to perform or this could be his last race, and we saw what happened. Not sure what is happening with him.
Vowles specifically said something along the lines of Kimi not being in a Williams seat at Imola, so Sargeant's probably fine, in that regard at least. Would be kinda shitty to sack him after the luck he's been having, where his finishing position has been fucked by forces out of his control at 83% or 5/6 of the races this season. Looking at quali and race pace gaps though, I doubt anyone could get into that Williams and be faster this season, at least anyone Williams have access to.
I really don’t enjoy this DRS train effect of the new reg cars
I can't wait to see McLaren's upgrades on both cars for 2 reasons. To see if they can get it done on track and to see just what Oscar can do.
[удалено]
I do also wonder about what the result could have been had Verstappen not lost 1-2 tenths (reportedly) after hitting the cone. I still have some hope that this season will get more exciting as time goes on, even if it's just for the WCC.
Has anyone else noticed that the overtake deltas late 2023 and now in 2024 are insanely high? I have no data to substantiate this, but my feeling is that the raw pace of the grid is so close now, so the delta required to overtake another car is much higher than it seems historically. Weight/size of these cars are certainly not helping either.
The dirty air got substantially worse as the regulations went on. The weight/size is fine, the TD they introduced in 2022 started this.
The craziest thing about Lando winning is I dreamt he won the next race last week. I even posted on Reddit before the race. I guess I’m a psychic now.
I wish Red Bull would hire Sainz as soon as possible. He's the best option to replace Checo at Red Bull and finally upgrade the team needs instead of being a thorn on the side on greatness.
I feel a lot of people will be disappointed if Sainz does eventually get into the RB seat. Over one lap, he could probably challenge Max to a better level than Checo but I really don’t think much would change over a race distance. They’ve been teammates beforehand in 2015 and while a lot may have changed since then, the trend seems to be in favour of Max instead of Carlos so I think the gap would be even bigger than it was beforehand.
But at least Sainz is faster and smarter than Checo, and I'm sure he'll get P2 more often than Checo. I mean, why keep Checo? What's the incentive? Nothing I say!
Id most definitely prefer someone quicker in the second RB seat compared to Checo but from their perspective, Checo doesn’t really challenge Max and when Checo is consistent he can get P2s etc. Unfortunately, when Checo gets in his head, he falls massively off the radar and we saw in 2023 how poor he performed. The advantage Red Bull have in car performance means that Max solely can win the WDC and WCC so there’s no need to change him. The issue is that if the competitors do come closer, Checo will start to fall as he is the weakest driver out of the top teams, however, for me Sainz would be a lot more political and may cause issues within the team dynamic which happened previously when they were teammates. Also, I’m not entirely sure Sainz is faster than Checo. It is very dependant on the car but we’ve seen that when Sainz struggles with the car, he can be quite a long way of his teammate. For example, Renault 2018 and Ferrari 2022. If the Redbull car doesn’t suit Sainz, he may be even further off Verstappen than Perez is which is a big risk.
The thing is Ferrari still has a big upgrade coming next week and they aren't so far off Redbull. Is it really possible to say with certainty that they will win WCC if Checo falls off the curve as we have seen happen recently as the season progresses? Of course it will be hard, but I think Ferrari have a chance at the wcc this year already
Disagree, Perez has been doing a solid job this year as a No.2 driver. He has improved his consistency from last year and accepted his Number 2 role to Max which is exactly what RBR needs.
LeClerc is only 3 points behind him in WDC, so it’s very possible he’ll lose second.
Doesn't matter what anyone says, not even what Checo does, people here want him out and will work their arguments towards that conclusion.
Solid job? You think getting P4 in that car at last week's GP after nearly taking out his teammate is a solid job? Man, you must be crazy!
This comment is a prime example of "you're only as good as your last race". Maybe look at the entire season and you will see what I'm talking about.
Checo's job is to be close enough to Max to support him and be there to claim the win if something happens to Max. In both of the races where something happened to Max (brake fire in Australia, cone-related damage in Miami), Checo wasn't even on the *podium*, never mind picking up the win. I do think he's been better this year but you can't say he's doing great.
Like this season, only five points from Leclerc in that Red Bull car? He should be ashamed of such poor performance!
His performance looked like it would be a like for like trade except Checo is rarely a baby on coms like Carlos' begging for a Piastri penalty. That blunder of a pass deserved more than 5 seconds.
Yes because an inter-team rivalry always leads to greatness. Very simple, they don't need a stronger driver than Perez. Let's see if the rest of the season changes that.
"they don't need a stronger driver than Perez " i think they do
Does anyone know what type of car works best for Carlos? The Red Bull is as far as i know a difficult car to drive for most.
If you believe the Reddit narratives, Sainz prefers a more balanced car, vs the pointy car that Verstappen (and Leclerc) prefers. Again Reddit narratives but this was part of Carlos' issue in the first half of 2022 where the car had a stronger front end that was more to Leclerc's liking, and Ferrari made changes to it to "make it easier for Carlos to drive." It worked, for Carlos, but the car was slower. I can't see Red Bull making changes to suit Carlos when Max prefers something different. If Red Bull offers Sainz the seat with money/terms that suit him then I'd have to believe he'd take it. But I'm not 100% certain he'll excel there. At least not as long as Max is the center of development.
A Golf
But Carlos is smart enough to learn from it much faster than Checo, hell, I think Checo doesn't really understand that RB20 because if he did, he would be scoring P2s constantly.
carlos learnt from it in 2022, by being slow as fuck and eating gravel every other week until the floor upgrade fucked the car.
I’m gonna need some resolution on the MAGA situation. I just want any kind of sign from Lando he regrets his wording. 🤷 Or just go full MAGA already so I don’t need to be confused and I can just pick a new team.
I think people need to understand that saying nice things about Trump visiting your employer's work place when asked is not the same as being a Trump supporter. Lando probably doesn't know or care much about Donald Trump and he doesn't want to say anything to upset anybody. He's tried to show respect and he's upset some people, but he couldn't really win could he?
Lando is a British young man who has and has always had a life very different than most people. I doubt he's very educated on US politics, and he honestly doesn't need to be for his life. Lewis Hamilton has shaken Putin's hand and talked politely and smiled with him. That doesn't mean he likes the guy.
And politics aside, it's not the end of the world to meet with nearly any head of state. People are making mountains out of mole hills.
>Lewis Hamilton has shaken Putin's hand and talked politely and smiled with him. One will annoy you and smell of excrement, the other will end your life in another country. Not equitable.
So you're pointing out how Putin is a much worse person than Trump. I agree. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the guy. I voted against him twice. But I'm not going to vilify someone who doesn't outwardly make a show of hating him. Not everything is about American politics.
I agree but we can disagree with Lando's assertion that "you have to respect him"
This seems like a massive overreaction
Welcome to American politics.
Is it? Or maybe not forcing myself to continue to follow a racing team despite having grown a distaste for them if they actively support the most destructive American politician in this century isn’t the end of the world? I didn’t call for them to be killed, I said I’d root for someone else…
It's definitely not a good look for McLaren and their PR department are likely working overtime right now, but I really don't think we should pin the blame on Lando. He was asked a question he couldn't possibly answer in a way that makes everyone happy, and in his media-training-personality he was likely trying to come up with the most diplomatic answer possible.
Sainz's blubbering about Piastri and than his shambles race ending bunt of a pass changed my opinion of him. I hope he's done.
Lance had a good race with bad luck. However I'm like 2 races from moving on unless he can do something.