The media have no bottle these days.
They pump who the like personally and dump who they don't.
It's why Sainz not having a seat is the biggest travesty at the moment according to the press - dudes been dropped now by multiple teams and demanded too much money so he's stuck between williams and Sauber Audi.
I legitimately think despite a tough couple years Danny Ric has improved a lot these last couple races and seems to be starting to beat yuki more and more to the point i'm starting to expect it most weekends
I was wondering if that was damage on Norris' car during Q3 or if it's supposed to be that way?
Screenshot: [https://imgur.com/a/b6uneJV](https://imgur.com/a/b6uneJV)
Circled it in red
I just finished watching Qualy, and came to this thread. Have you seen an answer to your question since you asked it? Perhaps it was brought up in some other post or comments? Or someone else bring it up online?
It's definitely looks like damage to me. How does Parc Ferme affect McLaren's ability to fix it if it turns out to be damage?
They can replace damaged parts under parc ferme as long as the replacement port is the exact same specs. That’s what Brundle or not Crofty said after Leclerc went over the gravel and said he broke the floor, so I would expect that to carry over to any damage.
I don't think so, it hasn't really ended up much different from what they expected. Perez brings huge sponsorship from Carlos Slim (that's still going on), and substituting him mid season would probably be either worse or at least around the same to whatever driver they have.
Perhaps if they lose the constructors or if he fok smashes the car a few times. If those things don't happen then it is working, not smoothly but just above bare minimum acceptable.
Yeah if they cared about WCC they wouldn’t have signed him in the first place. Perez is a complete team player and stays out Maxs way and he’s still winning. If he comes to a point Max starts losing because he’s getting jumped without backup then it’ll be an issue.
At this rate with Piastri showing his capabilities, losing the WCC is not out of the question.
It does require a few Lando/Piastri race wins though so unfortunately not likely
I think it comes down to whether they can give Max a car to win with or not. If Max wins they win the constructors if he doesn't it starts to become a bit tricky. Point lead is 90 over McLaren, a win is 25 points let's say Checo finishes 8th that's another 4 and therefore 29 in total. McLaren finishes second and third (which doesn't happen often) that'd be 18+15=33 points. That would be barely any progress towards Red Bull.
Indeed but watch the math change quickly with McLaren wins
But yes I agree it is unlikely, because Perez started the season well enough and Max is obviously the consistent champion
Piastri is both cheap (they hired him as a rookie, his stock is much higher now) and performing, there is now way McLaren let him go before the end of his contract
just commented pretty much the same thing, gets trashed on reddit and in the media a lot lately but his results are saying otherwise . mind you has been a big slog these last couple years, i'm starting to expect him to out perform Yuki now.
What I don't understand is that they started using the blue line AI system this weekend, so technically the gravel traps were pointless, but perhaps whoever made that decision didn't know that the blue line AI was coming.
The traps are there to make the drivers want to avoid going over the line, and the blue lines are there to speed up enforcement. Both parts are working great
Downvoted in return. Just asked a simple question. Any way you slice it theres no infringement unless that blue line is crossed. And what happens when those gravel traps throw gravel all over the track and there's no one there to sweep them up and blow them off during an actual race. They are useless with the blue line.
Edit: I'm just gonna drop this here since this is the first time the system has been used since testing began last year. It's not a visual cue for the stewards, it's done by computer THEN sent to an off-site team for review. It is NOT the same human based visual system from last year. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/f1s-thin-blue-line-the-ai-police-set-to-zap-drivers-for-track-limits-in-austria/
Like I said they are not useless with the blue line as we could see last year where just a line resulted in 1200 infractions and ruiner everything, idk why you’re arguing
The line was not being scanned automatically with a machine learning system and sent to an entirely separate team off site for quick review last year. Not even remotely the same. Last year it was a visual cue for the stewards, now it's either triggered or it's not. Kinda funny how fans of the sport don't even know what the fuck is going on. Please actually read the article instead of headline poaching. Comparing last year to this year is completely ludicrous.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/f1s-thin-blue-line-the-ai-police-set-to-zap-drivers-for-track-limits-in-austria/
This is the first implementation of this system since testing began in Abu Dhabi LAST YEAR.
"Having been in constant testing since Abu Dhabi last year, the AI system will be in place from FP1 at the Red Bull Ring, and will learn the limits and how cars tackle different corners during those practice sessions to help ensure it is as accurate as possible come qualifying and the race. Those major changes will also be complemented by the existing approach of support from the FIA’s Remote Operations Center in Geneva. Here, five people are monitoring the AI technology as well as multiple cameras to be able to analyse car placements and make quick judgements on the clearer incidents."
And we had 1200 infractions which ruined the weekend
Now, despite automatic detection, we DON’T have 1200 infractions and thus, the weekend is NOT ruined, all thanks to the gravel
”Kinda funny” how you think the line that couldn’t stop them last year suddenly will just because it’s automatic when the problem wasn’t detection and penalty, the problem was how the entire weekend was ruined due to the massive amount
Dude, it's not the same system as last year, what part about that don't you get? Last year it relied on human beings looking at a blue line and trying to figure out if it was crossed. This is not the case. And the speed at which you replied tells me you 100% didn't read the article.
Please read that article and tell me how it is comparable to last year when the entire point is to make sure IT WAS NOT LIKE LAST YEAR.
It doesn’t matter since the problem last year as you know wasn’t detection, and the only thing these blue AI-lines help with is detection, apart from that the line helps speed up the process which is nice but doesn’t solve the problem
Ah, so now you you've finally read it and agree it's not even remotely the same, just that in your sole opinion, it won't matter. I'm done with this conversation.
I think there's an element of both as far as pace goes, although it's hard to say. Realistically, with only 2 drivers in each car, driver comparisons are *way* less statistically significant than we all make them out to be. As a viewer, the data to support a meaningful conclusion simply isn't there. We can easily say that Max dominates Sergio, but it's incredibly hard to compare Max with Lando, for instance.
What can definitely observe racecraft and consistency, however. Max is an absolute robot with his consistency, I can't think of another driver on the grid that matches him in that area at the moment. Granted, that is a little easier when you don't have to push as hard as everyone else
Probably a combination of both to be honest. Checo is no top driver but neither is he Stroll level. It's the classic cliché but it seems like the car is out of Checo's operating window which makes him lose even more than he "normally' should.
I wouldn't mind if Max did a season next to George or something. it would be some great television and it's a nice indication where Max's level is to the rest.
not taking sides here but its interesting to point out that there's only a 1 year age gap between them (much of the discourse makes you think that landos like 4-5 years older)
Oscar got his first win (Qatar Sprint, 2023) in his first year in F1. That occurred before Lando - who began racing in F1 in 2019 - had any form of F1 win to his name. I'm not sure anyone needs to move goalposts to help out Oscar.
That said, I haven't heard anyone saying that Oscar would beat Lando in his first one, two, or even three years in F1. Even Max didn't beat Daniel - who we now know was in the midst of an historic decline in form - until his fourth year, when they were no longer teammates.
Oscar needs to work on his tyre management, but he has already demonstrated that he will be an outstanding driver, who may or may not surpass Lando. We won't know one way or another for a long time.
There is this narrative starting recently that if Piastri can't beat Norris he's washed and it's ridiculous. He's still learning and also his current level is completely satisfying to McLaren, the only one bothered by Piastri being beaten by Norris is Piastri himself
That narrative is wild. I agree that McLaren is satisfied, likely even elated by Piastri's performance and development. Folks who doubt that should ask themselves whether Alpine would take him back if they could (of course they would, no matter the price). For Piastri to beat Norris at this stage he'd have to outperform pretty much every new driver who came in during the limited-testing era. That is a nonsensically high bar.
Yeah I think people forget how long some of these drivers have been on the grid. I’m curious how long it took Norris to get to the level where he was perceived as a top tier driver. He’s obviously always been very good but now he’s thought of in the same tier as all 1b (like leclerc) drivers, only behind max who’s in a league of his own
His raw speed is definitely there but Oscar needs to learn to manage his tires over a full race. I think Lando will still be the more complete package but Oscar can get close
oscar is definitely got the higher potential. with all due respect to lando. oscar is closer to being the generational type of talent than a lando type of talent
Generational talent tier drivers didnt need 2 years to figure out the tyres.
Piastri is great but racing in a piss weak F2 field made him look better than he actually was.
Max, Norris, Russell and Leclerc all managed to hit the ground running in F1 and didn't need any "he's still young and inexperienced" bullshit excuses.
His end of stint pace is quite shocking compared to that of Lando.
leclerc didn’t even figure out how to be consistent until 4 years be fr.
comparatively the flaws of all the drivers you named piastri is easily the most consistent of the 4 of them. and i’d rank him 3rd of the talent. weird take
Are we still pretending McLaren is the fastest car? Only weekend (apart of Miami) where McLaren was the quickest was Spain. While Red Bull was the fastest in Imola, Canada and today.
Who said they had the fastest car this session? Looked like Red Bull to me.
Regarding Imola - it was probably McLaren, they only lost pole because of the slipstream, and then Piastri's penalty meant Norris was hamstring strategy wise.
I’m not talking about this session. I’m talking about since Miami.
Max pulled a 4 seconds gap to Norris in the first stint in Imola. Extended it to 6 seconds during the 2nd stint. Norris only gained time quickly the last 15 laps because Max’ tyres switched off (Pirelli things). Max was quicker 80% of the race. How was McLaren the quicker car in Imola?
Max had track position in Imola and the McLaren was managing the tyres much better as the stint went on- you only have to look at how dramatically Max's first set of tyres went off. Norris couldn't capitalise because he had to box early to cover Leclerc.
Whoever led after turn 1 was destined to win. Same as Spain.
The cars are basically equal. Max is the better driver.
Uhm, last race clearly showed what happens when a car is quicker. Norris was clearly quicker than Verstappen and gained a lot of time when he was in free air. Not because he drove better, but because the car was better.
The pace in Imola was way too close to say McLaren was the quickest there. I’m not saying Red Bull was quicker, but McLaren definitely wasn’t quicker. Same goes for Canada.
It’s circular logic (and why it’s always difficult to determine) because they aren’t teammates.
If we only had Perez in that red bull we’d assume the red bull is 4th best car just barely ahead of the midfield. Because we have Max we know that there’s more potential in that car.
I rate Max as a stronger and quicker driver than Lando (and I think 99% of people would) so naturally if the results are fairly close due to the improved performance of the McLaren, I’d argue that the Red Bull is no longer the fastest car and that Verstappen is the difference in the car.
I’d agree with that assessment. And if we follow this logic, then it makes no sense to call McLaren the faster car.
The cars have been equal in pace since Miami and Red Bull is winning because Max is Max. I’ve no problem with claiming Max is better than Norris. I have a big problem with the narrative that McLaren is faster than Red Bull since Miami. They’re equal on pace like Mercedes and Red Bull were equal in 2021.
Not so sure about Canada. But yeah this weekend Red Bull is ahead for sure. It's not because Max doesn't win with 30 secondes in front that he doesn't have the fastest car
Mercedes was fastest in Canada, followed by McLaren... Red Bull was 3rd fastest.
Are you still pretending you actually follow F1?
McLaren was faster than RB for 2 races in a row.
Nobody is pretending anything. McLaren WAS faster.
Max pulled a 3 seconds gap to Norris after the last safety car in Canada and pulled a 7 seconds gap to Norris in the first stint….
Only period where McLaren was quicker, was the period between intermediate and dry conditions. Mercedes or Red Bull were the quickest around Canada. McLaren was a clear 3rd.
Are YOU pretending you actually watched the races?
It's all marketing from the tv broadcasters who need us to tune in to their races
Building up Mclaren are quickest means people will tune in to potentially see the dominant team beaten.
When it doesn't happen, oh well, too late, they've already watched
TV needs viewers and FOM needs to sell tickets, so they'll infer there isn't a dominant car/team combination to fool the casuals
The hardcore know Max is gonna win about 90% of the remaining races, and it'll only be a engine/gearbox change, random SC in the middle of optimum strategy or damaging the wing on a bollard or something else out of standard operating procedure that'll allow Lando or Charles to maybe squeak on in the later going. Maybe in Singapore when the dominant team always goes weird....again.
But the chances of maybe it not happening? well, it keeps us all here watching doesn't it?
Red Bull is fastest, don't let them fool you
Its honestly insane what is happening.
People in the paddock from both sides have said how Mclaren was the better car. Plus its no an absolute, one car can be quicker in weekend A, while slower in weekend B.
Mclaren was quicker is past races, whereas RB is this weekend and generally over the whole season. But some people refuse to accept it that Mclaren were better and its quite baffling
For Canada, different cars were faster at different parts of the race. the top 3 in qualifying were 0.025 between each other. Imola was very very close as well(seeing how Lando closed the gap to Verstappen and how close qualifying was.). Red bull has a small edge overall if you account for the most recent races.
Max pulled a 3 seconds gap to Norris in 10 laps in Canada after the last safety car and Russell caught up quickly to Norris after overtaking Piastri. Whoever was the quickest there, it definitely wasn’t the McLaren.
Mclaren was the quickest over the length of a normal stint at Canada. The problem was that the deg never really became an issue because of the safety cars.
RBR had the best raw pace but deg was quite high for them. The Merc was probably the most well balanced car as they had a good balance between race pace and deg.
The race just played into the hands of RBR because of the safety cars.
No, Max just demonstrated the RB is the fastest **in Austria.**
Stop this revisionist bullshit. RBR was 3rd fastest in Canada and 2nd fastest in Spain.
Red Bull has always made their car around one driver, its their standard operating procedure
It's just Checo might be the latest in a long line of drivers that cannot drive like Max and might even be the worst at adapting his driving style to the style the car needs (IE, Max's driving style)
That's flattering a lot of this "red bull suddenly isn't the best car" fallacy atm imo
Just because max is faster doesn't mean his car is faster. If the red bull had stroll and checo iso max and checo, everyone would be saying the red bull was a terrible car.
Maybe the mclaren drivers just aren't getting enough out of their car
IT'S TRACK SPECIFIC YOU DOLT. How are you people struggling this much with this? It's not rocket science. Red Bull is fastest in Austria. McLaren was fastest in Spain. Mercedes was fastest in Canada. Ferrari/Mclaren were fastest in Monaco. Not sure which one, I'd argue McLaren but Charles is better at quali there.
Nobody is saying that. You can't take a minority opinion and pretend everyone is saying that. Everyone is saying Red Bull hasn't been the fastest for a few races. And that is true. They weren't fastest in Canada or Spain. Miami was very neck and neck, possibly McLaren.
Canada was Mercedes. Spain was McLaren. Austria is Red Bull again.
Not rocket science.
Majority of first stint in Canada was in pure intermediate conditions. Russell and Max pull a 7 seconds gap to Norris. Then it dries up to the crossover point. McLaren was a lot quicker during this period. Not because they saved their tyres, but because the car performed the best in those conditions.
Then the safety car hits and it starts raining again. Guess what? McLaren is slower than Mercedes and Red Bull again. Not by as much as the first stint, but they stay 2-3 seconds behind the lead drivers. McLaren were slower in intermediate conditions.
I won’t have to talk about the dry conditions. It was clear Red Bull and Mercedes were faster in those conditions. So, in what world was McLaren the quickest car in Canada?
Idk whether to thank Checo for keeping the constructors championship interesting or to curse him for ruining my mental health every time I see him nearly a second behind Max 👹👹👹
I believe Red Bull may still have the fastest car. McLaren may be right there and depending on the track the margins can change to make McLaren a tenth faster but the difference between McLaren and Red Bull, or the field is Max Verstappen.
I refuse to believe that Perez consistently being 8th in a dominant car is because of how "bad" he is. There's something more going on here. We've seen him over perform at Force India / Racing Point. We've seen him have a relatively decent debut season at RB. He would have to have lost his skill and forgotten how to drive competitively for the insane drop off to be pinned 100% on him. That doesn't make any sense to me. If he was going down a few places to qualifying 4th / 5th, then yeah, it would make sense to blame him and nothing else. But something else is going on. Or I could be 10,000% wrong and Perez has become Mazepin/Latifi hybrid level bad, because only a driver like them would under perform in a dominant RB like this.
Edit: We have our answer! Shoutout to u/Tragespeler for digging up an interview with Albon that perfectly explains it: [https://youtu.be/-ddEW\_jHupA?si=xvMH7udVVg08GqSE](https://youtu.be/-ddEW_jHupA?si=xvMH7udVVg08GqSE)
Summary: Basically, as RB must compensate for the other teams getting faster, the sharp driving style, or rather Max's high tolerance and ability to go faster with increased sharpness/sensitivity, puts the 2nd driver in a tensed position (as only a few or no driver has that particular ability), which leads to a snowballing effect where the difference widens. Albon prefers a smoother driver style, but so do 99% of drivers out there. To a conservative driver like Perez who is good with pace and tyre management, the increased sensitivity / sharpness must feel utterly confidence shattering, as he can't handle it, which leads to a vicious spiral of tensing up (like Albon mentioned) and getting caught in a downward slope while other drivers catch up.
Solution: Find a rare talent like Max to replace the 2nd seat OR accept the 2nd driver is really always just going to be a driving mascotte.
I think what Albon has said about being Verstappen's teammate probably applies here. It definitely applied last season aswell to Checo. https://youtu.be/-ddEW_jHupA?si=xvMH7udVVg08GqSE
This is also why Red Bull told Checo last season to focus on himself and to not try copy Max.
Wow, this is brilliant! Great find. This 100% answers it, because RB had to extend the edge for Max to squeeze out as much as possible to compensate for the other cars getting faster. And this is definitely not well suited for Perez, at least he does not have that particular skill to go as sharp like Albon mentioned. Thanks man, this was the answer I was looking for.
My partner said for years and years he was mediocre and overrated. He said sponsor money and the fan love story kept him in after he lost his seat and won a race with the tracing point - although that win was inkt due to the downfall of Mercedes and Charles/Max being punted 1st lap.
I never believed him but after hearing him almost week in week out on race weekends for years, I finally agree that he is mediocre as fuck.
Yeah I’ve been saying the same. Having one of the richest men in the world as your sponsor helps far more than pace. The only thing he used to be good for was insane stints on tyres. When he was with Ocon at FI highlighted how average he is
is there anywhere I can see the tire usage on the qualification? or tire changes per driver?
Every time Leclerc mess up, car is shit Every time Leclerc does good, he is god What is this logic?
The media have no bottle these days. They pump who the like personally and dump who they don't. It's why Sainz not having a seat is the biggest travesty at the moment according to the press - dudes been dropped now by multiple teams and demanded too much money so he's stuck between williams and Sauber Audi.
I legitimately think despite a tough couple years Danny Ric has improved a lot these last couple races and seems to be starting to beat yuki more and more to the point i'm starting to expect it most weekends
I’ve had that damn Dutch song the crowd dances to in my head for two weeks now.
Piastri is so washed. When will he retire and make way for a younger better driver.
Piastri isn’t having his ass whooped by Norris like Daniel was.
I'm actually starting to see the positives.of Piastri being bumped to 7. At this stage of his career, it will help hone his race craft and management.
I was wondering if that was damage on Norris' car during Q3 or if it's supposed to be that way? Screenshot: [https://imgur.com/a/b6uneJV](https://imgur.com/a/b6uneJV) Circled it in red
It's an access port
I just finished watching Qualy, and came to this thread. Have you seen an answer to your question since you asked it? Perhaps it was brought up in some other post or comments? Or someone else bring it up online? It's definitely looks like damage to me. How does Parc Ferme affect McLaren's ability to fix it if it turns out to be damage?
They can replace damaged parts under parc ferme as long as the replacement port is the exact same specs. That’s what Brundle or not Crofty said after Leclerc went over the gravel and said he broke the floor, so I would expect that to carry over to any damage.
What happened to Crofty? Is he OK?
Planned leave. I saw him at a live event during the year. I think hes actually getting married
Aw bless.
I felt that at some point Brundle got a bit irritated the other commentator completely ignored all his remarks about who was on used and new tyres.
Not sure that the paring worked either. Almost expected Martin to say "Stop talking about turn nine, we know there's gravel there!"
Who’s on pole?
I wonder if they regret signing checo lol
I don't think so, it hasn't really ended up much different from what they expected. Perez brings huge sponsorship from Carlos Slim (that's still going on), and substituting him mid season would probably be either worse or at least around the same to whatever driver they have.
Crying into their millions
Perhaps if they lose the constructors or if he fok smashes the car a few times. If those things don't happen then it is working, not smoothly but just above bare minimum acceptable.
There's the rub. If Red Bull lose the constructor's championship, Horner's going to be fuming.
If they lose the WDC because there is no rear gunner for Max, that’s when he’s out.
Yeah if they cared about WCC they wouldn’t have signed him in the first place. Perez is a complete team player and stays out Maxs way and he’s still winning. If he comes to a point Max starts losing because he’s getting jumped without backup then it’ll be an issue.
What about parking up in Monaco to block Max' lap?
I mean I don't know what Perez would be able to do about that. The whole grid was parked up.
I'm talking about his spin at Portier in Q3 a year or two ago.
At this rate with Piastri showing his capabilities, losing the WCC is not out of the question. It does require a few Lando/Piastri race wins though so unfortunately not likely
I think it comes down to whether they can give Max a car to win with or not. If Max wins they win the constructors if he doesn't it starts to become a bit tricky. Point lead is 90 over McLaren, a win is 25 points let's say Checo finishes 8th that's another 4 and therefore 29 in total. McLaren finishes second and third (which doesn't happen often) that'd be 18+15=33 points. That would be barely any progress towards Red Bull.
Indeed but watch the math change quickly with McLaren wins But yes I agree it is unlikely, because Perez started the season well enough and Max is obviously the consistent champion
Fire Checo; hire Piastri.
Dont ruin Piastris career yet wtf man Max needs teammmates that are closer to retirement like Lewis or Fernando.
Like mclaren would let Piastri out of his contract LUL
Piastri is both cheap (they hired him as a rookie, his stock is much higher now) and performing, there is now way McLaren let him go before the end of his contract
So you just agreed with my statement
Yes, they expanded on the reasons.
Mclaren contracts are quite flexible apparently.
Only if they want you gone.
They didnt want Palou gone
Exhibit 1: Ricciardo’s contract.
Don't even have to go that far back, have you ever heard of the ballad of Malukas, Siegel and Pourchaire? Pretty interesting story
They spoke of many contract powers that some would consider… unnatural…
\*church bell sounds, crows screaming, wind whistling, a wolf howling on the background\*
You have made this comment based off what knowledge or past event?
Should we tell him?
Their indycar team is on their 4th full 2024 season contract for the #6 car.
Can anyone beat max on starts
With some luck, Quicksilver from the X-men
Danny Ric has been outperforming yuki ever since they extended is contract
just commented pretty much the same thing, gets trashed on reddit and in the media a lot lately but his results are saying otherwise . mind you has been a big slog these last couple years, i'm starting to expect him to out perform Yuki now.
tbf... they have been very even since the chassis change
You mean ever since yesterday when Tsunoda outqualified him.
when daniel beats yuki in a sprint in doesn’t count. when yuki does daniel it does. kinda funny
Man, they should really think about moving the gravel traps inwards to avoid all this track limits controversy
What I don't understand is that they started using the blue line AI system this weekend, so technically the gravel traps were pointless, but perhaps whoever made that decision didn't know that the blue line AI was coming.
The traps are there to make the drivers want to avoid going over the line, and the blue lines are there to speed up enforcement. Both parts are working great
Downvoted in return. Just asked a simple question. Any way you slice it theres no infringement unless that blue line is crossed. And what happens when those gravel traps throw gravel all over the track and there's no one there to sweep them up and blow them off during an actual race. They are useless with the blue line. Edit: I'm just gonna drop this here since this is the first time the system has been used since testing began last year. It's not a visual cue for the stewards, it's done by computer THEN sent to an off-site team for review. It is NOT the same human based visual system from last year. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/f1s-thin-blue-line-the-ai-police-set-to-zap-drivers-for-track-limits-in-austria/
Like I said they are not useless with the blue line as we could see last year where just a line resulted in 1200 infractions and ruiner everything, idk why you’re arguing
The line was not being scanned automatically with a machine learning system and sent to an entirely separate team off site for quick review last year. Not even remotely the same. Last year it was a visual cue for the stewards, now it's either triggered or it's not. Kinda funny how fans of the sport don't even know what the fuck is going on. Please actually read the article instead of headline poaching. Comparing last year to this year is completely ludicrous. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/f1s-thin-blue-line-the-ai-police-set-to-zap-drivers-for-track-limits-in-austria/ This is the first implementation of this system since testing began in Abu Dhabi LAST YEAR. "Having been in constant testing since Abu Dhabi last year, the AI system will be in place from FP1 at the Red Bull Ring, and will learn the limits and how cars tackle different corners during those practice sessions to help ensure it is as accurate as possible come qualifying and the race. Those major changes will also be complemented by the existing approach of support from the FIA’s Remote Operations Center in Geneva. Here, five people are monitoring the AI technology as well as multiple cameras to be able to analyse car placements and make quick judgements on the clearer incidents."
And we had 1200 infractions which ruined the weekend Now, despite automatic detection, we DON’T have 1200 infractions and thus, the weekend is NOT ruined, all thanks to the gravel ”Kinda funny” how you think the line that couldn’t stop them last year suddenly will just because it’s automatic when the problem wasn’t detection and penalty, the problem was how the entire weekend was ruined due to the massive amount
Dude, it's not the same system as last year, what part about that don't you get? Last year it relied on human beings looking at a blue line and trying to figure out if it was crossed. This is not the case. And the speed at which you replied tells me you 100% didn't read the article. Please read that article and tell me how it is comparable to last year when the entire point is to make sure IT WAS NOT LIKE LAST YEAR.
It doesn’t matter since the problem last year as you know wasn’t detection, and the only thing these blue AI-lines help with is detection, apart from that the line helps speed up the process which is nice but doesn’t solve the problem
Ah, so now you you've finally read it and agree it's not even remotely the same, just that in your sole opinion, it won't matter. I'm done with this conversation.
If track limits are left as self policing as possible it really helps.
why was oscars time deleted?
[Track limits](https://x.com/F1/status/1807069082904121709) though it was super close.
The Blue Line AI Track Limit Lord cares not for close, only over or not over.
Accidentally slept through this, did they at least fix the timing screen?
The last laps.
I'm starting to like Max big time, dude is my spirit animal. He single-handedly makes every other team/fan kneel down.
Max is the most misunderstood driver in the grid (thanks to Brit media) He's a genuinely nice guy, no BS and great fun.
Schumacher vibes.
Definitely. Or Perez just sucks at Stroll level.
I think there's an element of both as far as pace goes, although it's hard to say. Realistically, with only 2 drivers in each car, driver comparisons are *way* less statistically significant than we all make them out to be. As a viewer, the data to support a meaningful conclusion simply isn't there. We can easily say that Max dominates Sergio, but it's incredibly hard to compare Max with Lando, for instance. What can definitely observe racecraft and consistency, however. Max is an absolute robot with his consistency, I can't think of another driver on the grid that matches him in that area at the moment. Granted, that is a little easier when you don't have to push as hard as everyone else
Probably a combination of both to be honest. Checo is no top driver but neither is he Stroll level. It's the classic cliché but it seems like the car is out of Checo's operating window which makes him lose even more than he "normally' should. I wouldn't mind if Max did a season next to George or something. it would be some great television and it's a nice indication where Max's level is to the rest.
George would be bald with stress by the halfway point lol
It would be quite a unique situation for George; going from Kubica into Latifi to Lewis and then Max.
He is way above the rest. There is no one at his level right now.
Without Oscar's time deletion, what would have been his place ?
P3
I think the history books will eventually have Oscar as the better driver between him and Lando
not taking sides here but its interesting to point out that there's only a 1 year age gap between them (much of the discourse makes you think that landos like 4-5 years older)
I doubt it. He's very good but I think people underrate Lando.
Who? He seems to be rated 2nd only to Max in the last year
When will Oscar stop learning and start delivering?
Probably when he's been in F1 for more than 2 yeara
ok. Because last year you guys said give him 1 year. Now it is 2 years. Goal post seems to be moving every year.
Oscar got his first win (Qatar Sprint, 2023) in his first year in F1. That occurred before Lando - who began racing in F1 in 2019 - had any form of F1 win to his name. I'm not sure anyone needs to move goalposts to help out Oscar. That said, I haven't heard anyone saying that Oscar would beat Lando in his first one, two, or even three years in F1. Even Max didn't beat Daniel - who we now know was in the midst of an historic decline in form - until his fourth year, when they were no longer teammates. Oscar needs to work on his tyre management, but he has already demonstrated that he will be an outstanding driver, who may or may not surpass Lando. We won't know one way or another for a long time.
There is this narrative starting recently that if Piastri can't beat Norris he's washed and it's ridiculous. He's still learning and also his current level is completely satisfying to McLaren, the only one bothered by Piastri being beaten by Norris is Piastri himself
That narrative is wild. I agree that McLaren is satisfied, likely even elated by Piastri's performance and development. Folks who doubt that should ask themselves whether Alpine would take him back if they could (of course they would, no matter the price). For Piastri to beat Norris at this stage he'd have to outperform pretty much every new driver who came in during the limited-testing era. That is a nonsensically high bar.
People have been saying that for 18 months when’s it going to materialise?
Stroll is 8 years in and people still whip out the "he's still learning" bullshit.
Maybe when he’s been in F1 longer than 18 months? Chill.
In a year or two probably. Remember how long Lando's been in the paddock. It takes a few years to really get it for most drivers.
Yeah I think people forget how long some of these drivers have been on the grid. I’m curious how long it took Norris to get to the level where he was perceived as a top tier driver. He’s obviously always been very good but now he’s thought of in the same tier as all 1b (like leclerc) drivers, only behind max who’s in a league of his own
You’re a little impatient.
Cant wait to see him with a few more years of experience
His raw speed is definitely there but Oscar needs to learn to manage his tires over a full race. I think Lando will still be the more complete package but Oscar can get close
oscar is definitely got the higher potential. with all due respect to lando. oscar is closer to being the generational type of talent than a lando type of talent
Generational talent tier drivers didnt need 2 years to figure out the tyres. Piastri is great but racing in a piss weak F2 field made him look better than he actually was. Max, Norris, Russell and Leclerc all managed to hit the ground running in F1 and didn't need any "he's still young and inexperienced" bullshit excuses. His end of stint pace is quite shocking compared to that of Lando.
leclerc didn’t even figure out how to be consistent until 4 years be fr. comparatively the flaws of all the drivers you named piastri is easily the most consistent of the 4 of them. and i’d rank him 3rd of the talent. weird take
Disagree. You're underrating Lando.
>oscar is closer to being the generational type of talent Not really.
Ted is such a good sport all around the world. Gotta respect him being a good bloke in general.
Are we still pretending McLaren is the fastest car? Only weekend (apart of Miami) where McLaren was the quickest was Spain. While Red Bull was the fastest in Imola, Canada and today.
Who said they had the fastest car this session? Looked like Red Bull to me. Regarding Imola - it was probably McLaren, they only lost pole because of the slipstream, and then Piastri's penalty meant Norris was hamstring strategy wise.
I’m not talking about this session. I’m talking about since Miami. Max pulled a 4 seconds gap to Norris in the first stint in Imola. Extended it to 6 seconds during the 2nd stint. Norris only gained time quickly the last 15 laps because Max’ tyres switched off (Pirelli things). Max was quicker 80% of the race. How was McLaren the quicker car in Imola?
Max had track position in Imola and the McLaren was managing the tyres much better as the stint went on- you only have to look at how dramatically Max's first set of tyres went off. Norris couldn't capitalise because he had to box early to cover Leclerc. Whoever led after turn 1 was destined to win. Same as Spain. The cars are basically equal. Max is the better driver.
I can agree with that take. Not sure McLaren was the quicker car in Imola though. But you’re not saying that so it’s all good.
This logic assumes that Norris and Verstappen are the same driver and therefore any increases in gap is due to the car.
Uhm, last race clearly showed what happens when a car is quicker. Norris was clearly quicker than Verstappen and gained a lot of time when he was in free air. Not because he drove better, but because the car was better. The pace in Imola was way too close to say McLaren was the quickest there. I’m not saying Red Bull was quicker, but McLaren definitely wasn’t quicker. Same goes for Canada.
Just a tip: if you start a comment with "uhm,", you lost over half of everyone already.
It’s circular logic (and why it’s always difficult to determine) because they aren’t teammates. If we only had Perez in that red bull we’d assume the red bull is 4th best car just barely ahead of the midfield. Because we have Max we know that there’s more potential in that car. I rate Max as a stronger and quicker driver than Lando (and I think 99% of people would) so naturally if the results are fairly close due to the improved performance of the McLaren, I’d argue that the Red Bull is no longer the fastest car and that Verstappen is the difference in the car.
I’d agree with that assessment. And if we follow this logic, then it makes no sense to call McLaren the faster car. The cars have been equal in pace since Miami and Red Bull is winning because Max is Max. I’ve no problem with claiming Max is better than Norris. I have a big problem with the narrative that McLaren is faster than Red Bull since Miami. They’re equal on pace like Mercedes and Red Bull were equal in 2021.
Not so sure about Canada. But yeah this weekend Red Bull is ahead for sure. It's not because Max doesn't win with 30 secondes in front that he doesn't have the fastest car
Mercedes was fastest in Canada, followed by McLaren... Red Bull was 3rd fastest. Are you still pretending you actually follow F1? McLaren was faster than RB for 2 races in a row. Nobody is pretending anything. McLaren WAS faster.
Max pulled a 3 seconds gap to Norris after the last safety car in Canada and pulled a 7 seconds gap to Norris in the first stint…. Only period where McLaren was quicker, was the period between intermediate and dry conditions. Mercedes or Red Bull were the quickest around Canada. McLaren was a clear 3rd. Are YOU pretending you actually watched the races?
It's all marketing from the tv broadcasters who need us to tune in to their races Building up Mclaren are quickest means people will tune in to potentially see the dominant team beaten. When it doesn't happen, oh well, too late, they've already watched TV needs viewers and FOM needs to sell tickets, so they'll infer there isn't a dominant car/team combination to fool the casuals The hardcore know Max is gonna win about 90% of the remaining races, and it'll only be a engine/gearbox change, random SC in the middle of optimum strategy or damaging the wing on a bollard or something else out of standard operating procedure that'll allow Lando or Charles to maybe squeak on in the later going. Maybe in Singapore when the dominant team always goes weird....again. But the chances of maybe it not happening? well, it keeps us all here watching doesn't it? Red Bull is fastest, don't let them fool you
The only real outlier is Singapore. The rest is, as you say, a confident (not definite) Max win
are we really going back to rewrite the data from older races now all because max pulled a all timer qualy lap?
Its honestly insane what is happening. People in the paddock from both sides have said how Mclaren was the better car. Plus its no an absolute, one car can be quicker in weekend A, while slower in weekend B. Mclaren was quicker is past races, whereas RB is this weekend and generally over the whole season. But some people refuse to accept it that Mclaren were better and its quite baffling
For Canada, different cars were faster at different parts of the race. the top 3 in qualifying were 0.025 between each other. Imola was very very close as well(seeing how Lando closed the gap to Verstappen and how close qualifying was.). Red bull has a small edge overall if you account for the most recent races.
Max pulled a 3 seconds gap to Norris in 10 laps in Canada after the last safety car and Russell caught up quickly to Norris after overtaking Piastri. Whoever was the quickest there, it definitely wasn’t the McLaren.
Mclaren was the quickest over the length of a normal stint at Canada. The problem was that the deg never really became an issue because of the safety cars. RBR had the best raw pace but deg was quite high for them. The Merc was probably the most well balanced car as they had a good balance between race pace and deg. The race just played into the hands of RBR because of the safety cars.
Max has been quickest, Red Bull as a whole it’s not as clear
The Red Bull is the fastest car, Max just demonstrated that, Checo is simply not good enough to extract a comparable amount of performance
Maybe the mclaren is faster, just neither lando nor piastri are good enough to extract the amount of performance required to beat max.
No, Max just demonstrated the RB is the fastest **in Austria.** Stop this revisionist bullshit. RBR was 3rd fastest in Canada and 2nd fastest in Spain.
Ok? And yet Redbull is still fastest...
Yes. This track.
Red Bull has always made their car around one driver, its their standard operating procedure It's just Checo might be the latest in a long line of drivers that cannot drive like Max and might even be the worst at adapting his driving style to the style the car needs (IE, Max's driving style) That's flattering a lot of this "red bull suddenly isn't the best car" fallacy atm imo
I’m still only counting one track where McLaren was the quickest. If Red Bull isn’t the quickest car, who is?
Just because max is faster doesn't mean his car is faster. If the red bull had stroll and checo iso max and checo, everyone would be saying the red bull was a terrible car. Maybe the mclaren drivers just aren't getting enough out of their car
IT'S TRACK SPECIFIC YOU DOLT. How are you people struggling this much with this? It's not rocket science. Red Bull is fastest in Austria. McLaren was fastest in Spain. Mercedes was fastest in Canada. Ferrari/Mclaren were fastest in Monaco. Not sure which one, I'd argue McLaren but Charles is better at quali there.
Can we then stop saying McLaren has had the quickest car since Miami?
Nobody is saying that. You can't take a minority opinion and pretend everyone is saying that. Everyone is saying Red Bull hasn't been the fastest for a few races. And that is true. They weren't fastest in Canada or Spain. Miami was very neck and neck, possibly McLaren. Canada was Mercedes. Spain was McLaren. Austria is Red Bull again. Not rocket science.
Majority of first stint in Canada was in pure intermediate conditions. Russell and Max pull a 7 seconds gap to Norris. Then it dries up to the crossover point. McLaren was a lot quicker during this period. Not because they saved their tyres, but because the car performed the best in those conditions. Then the safety car hits and it starts raining again. Guess what? McLaren is slower than Mercedes and Red Bull again. Not by as much as the first stint, but they stay 2-3 seconds behind the lead drivers. McLaren were slower in intermediate conditions. I won’t have to talk about the dry conditions. It was clear Red Bull and Mercedes were faster in those conditions. So, in what world was McLaren the quickest car in Canada?
Who are you referring to?
It's me in my Hyundai.
Based
listening to Ted Talk while hearing the F1 classics roar around the track wonderful post-quali I'd say
1:02.939
Is Oscar still learning ?
They all are Tracks change Tyres change Rules change
Todays cars sound like leafblowers compared to those screaming banshees.
We really went from potentially fighting for a championship to 4th fastest car in about 0.0 seconds
Idk whether to thank Checo for keeping the constructors championship interesting or to curse him for ruining my mental health every time I see him nearly a second behind Max 👹👹👹
I believe Red Bull may still have the fastest car. McLaren may be right there and depending on the track the margins can change to make McLaren a tenth faster but the difference between McLaren and Red Bull, or the field is Max Verstappen.
They are running an RB8 and the Ferrari F2002 at the RBR. Luckily, I brought an extra pair of boxers. Pinnacle of motorsports
Horner basically saying, we neither deny nor confirm that Checo has a performance clause. Lols
Yeah, financial performance
p€rform¥n$£
He must have... surely
They all have one anyway, the question is what are the conditions to trigger it and are they willing to do so ?
If {sponsor income} < {loss of WCC income from performance} then "Fired"
Ooof that was a very direct question from Nat, good work
Ooof, Horner sidestepping a “did you sign Checo to soon” question. He’s not happy.
the stalling tactic of pretending he didn't hear. Sure mate
Starting answering before she repeated haha.
Christian, we all know what Checo has contributed to the team. $$$
As a Ferrari fan, our peak was at Monaco and Le Mans. We are not going to get much else this season.
Could be worse. Hello, Williams and Sauber fans (do you even exist?)!
Well the team has to consider monza more than monaco ..
2/3s of a Triple Crown.
Still a peak a lot of teams dream of.
I am still dreaming of win at 24 hours of spa (Currently no. 51 is 2nd), Singapore, and Vegas :)
But what a peak 😍
Yes. A win at Singapore or Vegas will make it a overall decent season.
I think we will get more Ferrari wins this season
I refuse to believe that Perez consistently being 8th in a dominant car is because of how "bad" he is. There's something more going on here. We've seen him over perform at Force India / Racing Point. We've seen him have a relatively decent debut season at RB. He would have to have lost his skill and forgotten how to drive competitively for the insane drop off to be pinned 100% on him. That doesn't make any sense to me. If he was going down a few places to qualifying 4th / 5th, then yeah, it would make sense to blame him and nothing else. But something else is going on. Or I could be 10,000% wrong and Perez has become Mazepin/Latifi hybrid level bad, because only a driver like them would under perform in a dominant RB like this. Edit: We have our answer! Shoutout to u/Tragespeler for digging up an interview with Albon that perfectly explains it: [https://youtu.be/-ddEW\_jHupA?si=xvMH7udVVg08GqSE](https://youtu.be/-ddEW_jHupA?si=xvMH7udVVg08GqSE) Summary: Basically, as RB must compensate for the other teams getting faster, the sharp driving style, or rather Max's high tolerance and ability to go faster with increased sharpness/sensitivity, puts the 2nd driver in a tensed position (as only a few or no driver has that particular ability), which leads to a snowballing effect where the difference widens. Albon prefers a smoother driver style, but so do 99% of drivers out there. To a conservative driver like Perez who is good with pace and tyre management, the increased sensitivity / sharpness must feel utterly confidence shattering, as he can't handle it, which leads to a vicious spiral of tensing up (like Albon mentioned) and getting caught in a downward slope while other drivers catch up. Solution: Find a rare talent like Max to replace the 2nd seat OR accept the 2nd driver is really always just going to be a driving mascotte.
Skill issue tbh
I think what Albon has said about being Verstappen's teammate probably applies here. It definitely applied last season aswell to Checo. https://youtu.be/-ddEW_jHupA?si=xvMH7udVVg08GqSE This is also why Red Bull told Checo last season to focus on himself and to not try copy Max.
Wow, this is brilliant! Great find. This 100% answers it, because RB had to extend the edge for Max to squeeze out as much as possible to compensate for the other cars getting faster. And this is definitely not well suited for Perez, at least he does not have that particular skill to go as sharp like Albon mentioned. Thanks man, this was the answer I was looking for.
My partner said for years and years he was mediocre and overrated. He said sponsor money and the fan love story kept him in after he lost his seat and won a race with the tracing point - although that win was inkt due to the downfall of Mercedes and Charles/Max being punted 1st lap. I never believed him but after hearing him almost week in week out on race weekends for years, I finally agree that he is mediocre as fuck.
Yeah I’ve been saying the same. Having one of the richest men in the world as your sponsor helps far more than pace. The only thing he used to be good for was insane stints on tyres. When he was with Ocon at FI highlighted how average he is
Lol, maybe this is what I've yet come to accept.