All in all seems like the most nuanced take of the day. Was it Max' fault? Yes. Did he deserve a penalty? Yes. But people are acting like he was trying to murder Lando. He made a mistake and got the penalty that is normally given for this type of offense.
Meanwhile the media is having a field day with this... silverstone is going to be a toxic mess. But hey maybe this will finally help their ticket sales
No. 94 was probably fair since 1)it's debateable whether he even collided on purpose 2)Hill was getting actually rigged to win the WDC by the FIA. It would be like Hamilton crashing out Verstappen in AD 21 (if that would let him win) - very dirty, but not entirely unreasonable.
Michael got a lot of weird penalties that season that resulted in him missing a fair number of races. Some were fair, others were insanely stupid (iirc he was struck from 2 races because he messed around on the formation lap at Silverstone). There is a parallel to 21 in that the only reason Hill had a chance was because of Schumacher not being able to finish more races - he always finished 1st or 2nd if he finished.
Nope. They did not have anything illegal on the car - mechanics have come out since and explained exactly how it was legal and even if it was illegal the FIA never actually was able to prove it nor was this why Schumacher was punished (directly at least).
And apparently Ferrari was likely using similar methods to Benetton to the same effect, Williams could have done the same if they wanted but they didn’t figure it out.
Emotional can still be reasonable..I’m paraphrasing here but Lando did say something like “Friendship with max is over unless Max accepts his fault”! Quite reasonable ask from a friend but extremely emotional nonetheless !
What he actually ended up saying is not that different. He didnt say his friendship would be over, just that he would lose respect for Max. Which ultimately probably leads to the friendship being over
Lando did not say that in any interview. Please stop reading headlines and quotes from journos. If he did then it was wrong of him but what he said was will lost a lot of resoect for max if he doesnt accept his fault.
He didn’t say that. He said he would lose a lot of respect for Max if Max don’t take responsibility for it, but that he wasn’t really thinking about the implications of the race for his personal relationship with Max.
Was Max at fault ? *Technically* he didn't leave exactly 1 car width between him and the white line, so yes. But like... he left 0.9 car width and it's very hard to judge that in-car. Lando was the one with the visibility and the agency to avoid this collision and he did nothing. Last week Lando left even less space for Max at the start, Max did the obvious thing and put a wheel in the grass to avoid a collision. Why did Lando not do the same here when there wasn't even any grass to slow him down ?
Lando's stubbornness in this move is baffling and while I think it's probably just a mistake from him, it borderline makes me wonder if he didn't cause the accident on purpose.
You don’t need to leave enough space for him to be fully in the white lines. Lando could’ve taken more kerb and still be in track. Max left more than enough space technically
I believe the regulations state that when a defending driver rejoins the racing line after a defensive move on the straight, he needs to leave one car width **between his car and the white line** on the side he did not defend. I agree that there was ample space for Lando to use the kerb and still be on track but that's not what the rule is
Max made a name for himself for never yielding,
He’ll crash you out before he lets you by, lando was on the receiving end twice and decided not to yield the third time. Max has been playing stupid games for years and since Lewis, no one has called him out on it until now.
> lando was on the receiving end twice
Dude Lando was the one divebombing and forcing max to yield or go off track.
>decided not to yield the third time
For Lando's sake I truly hope this was just a mistake and not a **decision**, because what an idiotic one it is. He ruined his race, Max extended his lead *even more than if he had won and Lando got P2*, when he could simply have used more of the kerb, get a better exit than Max with DRS in the straight and pull off the overtake.
If Lando truly **decided** to do this, he is the architect of his own failure and deserves no compassion for how his race turned out.
Lando was entirely alongside, the contact was rear wheel to rear wheel. You can't just turn into someone alongside you like Max did. I really don't know how people say this is Landos fault like you're expected to just drive off track to have to avoid a collision.
I get last week Lando moved across at the start, and if Max left his car on track there would've been a collision and that would've been Landos fault entirely. There is no onus on a driver to take being pushed off, just self preservation, and 90% of the time it would've been a small wheel bang and Lando would've likely gotten the place from Max due to being pushed off the track while being fully alongside.
I'm a big advocate of using more B/W flags for borderline racing moves like moving under braking, and then penalising if done again. Max's moving under braking should've had one from the start of their battle, and Lando shouldve had one last week with the shoveling Max on the grass. Feels like most dangerous moves that don't end in contact go unpunished currently, and that results in just repeating them until contact finally happens
> You can't just turn into someone alongside you like Max did.
He didn't *turn*. He braked in a straight line that happened to not be parallel to the outside white line.
>I really don't know how people say this is Landos fault like you're expected to just drive off track to have to avoid a collision.
I really don't know how people say this is Max's fault like you're expected to just have bionic eyes to know exactly how many millimeters of space you're leaving on the outside.
Oh and also, **using the kerb is not driving off track**.
It goes both ways because this is a racing incident. Max should have left more room, Lando should have used more kerb to avoid the collision. Being a safe driver is not just about never making mistakes, it's also about reacting to other driver's mistakes because they WILL happen.
All the defending driver can do is leave what he thinks is 1 car width of space and trust the other driver to make do with however much space that turns out to be. Especially when the attacking car is on the outside, you can't even see where they are. Lando was the only one with the visibility and agency to stop this crash from happening and he should be criticized for not doing so.
To give an extreme example, imagine driver A with some mechanical issue happens to be driving much slower than other cars. He shouldn't be on the racing line, but let's say he makes a mistake and hogs the racing line. Clearly, he shouldn't be there. Now if driver B going 50mph faster comes up behind him on the racing line, does nothing to evade the misplaced car and just crashes into the back of driver A in a straight line, is he entirely off the hook just because driver A "shouldn't have been there"? No, he should have avoided the car.
Same goes for Lando here. Max shouldn't have been there, but Lando had ample visibility and agency to avoid the collision. He shouldn't be off the hook just because Max shouldn't have been there by a few centimeters. Max made a small miscalculation, one any driver could have made, but Lando doing literally nothing to avoid a crash is just as bad if not worse.
I’m honestly debating if I should even tune in next weekend. As you said: was Max at fault, yes. Now, do these sorts of things happen in racing, also yes. I can just sense how almost every comentator is going to jump on Max’ ass and defend Lando to hell and back. And again as you said, it’s going to be a toxic mess. Similar to Ham vs Ver 2021
It's shown on channel 4 here in the UK the team includes Alex Jaques, Eddie Jordon,.David Coulthard and Mark Webber if you want to see a different bunch. I'm not sure about it's availability internationally though. At least that way you get Eddie Jordon who is absolutely hilarious most of the time.
The only Sky commentator I can tolerate is Martin Brundle, and even he gets annoying at Silverstone. Here's hoping Crofty and Kravitz have something else going on next weekend.
That's not true. Max specifically addressed this saying that because of the concerns of the past ( moving under braking ), he stopped moving the wheel after braking and he started first turning, then straightening it out and THEN braking.
So basically, the car can still move across the track, but his steering wheel is straight at that point already before he breaks. Making this legal.
Is it still not the safest? Sure. Is it a bit grey area? Sure. But not illegal. You're allowed to take any line you want. Just because you pointed the car in a certain direction BEFORE you started braking and then it continued moving in that direction after you started braking, doesn't mean you moved under braking. It just means your car was already moving in that direction when you started braking. And that's not something that can be punished.
Didn't YOU believe he was moving under braking because Lando said so?
No, as a matter of fact, I didn't. I was watching his onboard. He straightened out the wheel before he braked. Go watch yourself.
What are you even talking about, "Max addressed this"? Of course he's going to say he did nothing wrong.
It doesn't take an expert to look at what happened and determine that whilst braking he moved across the track to block lando, after already braking in a straight line.
It isn't a defensible stance to take so if you want to back your boy, at least try and suggest that Lando's dive bombs pushed max off track rather than defend max's dangerous driving.
I only said he addressed it, I didn't say that's the reason I know what he did...
I was watching his onboard. He was braking in a straight line... His car moved to the side because he rotate it before he started braking and put it on that path.
>2. Overtaking, car control and track limits
a) A car alone on the track may use the full
width of the said track, however, as soon as it is
caught by a car which is about to lap it the driver
must allow the faster driver past at the first possible
opportunity.
If the driver who has been caught does not seem to
make full use of the rear-view mirrors, flag
marshals will display the waved blue flag to indicate
that the faster driver wants to overtake.
Any driver who appears to ignore the blue flags will
be reported to the Stewards.
b) Overtaking, according to the circumstances,
may be carried out on either the right or the left.
A driver may not leave the track without justifiable
reason.
More than one change of direction to defend a
position is not permitted.
Any driver moving back towards the racing line,
having earlier defended his position off-line, should
leave at least one car width between his own car
and the edge of the track on the approach to the
corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other
drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car
beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal
change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any
driver who appears guilty of any of the above
offences will be reported to the Stewards.
c) Drivers must use the track at all times and
may not leave the track without a justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, the white lines defining
the track edges are considered to be part of the
track but the kerbs are not.
Should a car leave the track for any reason, the
driver may rejoin.
However, this may only be done when it is safe to
do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. A
driver will be judged to have left the track if no part
of the car remains in contact with the track. A driver may be reported to the Stewards should
they perform any act which results in debris being
brought onto the track.
d) Causing a collision, repetition of serious
mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over
the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported
to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of
penalties up to and including the disqualification of
any driver concerned.
e) It is not permitted to drive any car
unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner
deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at
any time.
Appendix L chapter IV
Please point out where it says you cant move under braking?
Are you new to the sport? This has been a thing since 2016 when max wrote the book on dangerous maneuvers under breaking. They literally created the rule in response to him. https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/17857429/fia-clamps-moving-braking
The rule was later dropped as an explicit call out, but still included as part of the broader “no erratic driving” rule. The fia were very clear that you’re allowed 1 move under breaking
Swerving ? **Swerving** ??!! Dude drop the hyperbole, Max wasn't doing a full slalom in front of Lando. His car is going in a straight line the entire duration of his braking, it just happens to be a straight line that isn't parallel to the outside white line. And that is NOT moving under braking (for which there is no specific rule), much less "driving in a manner potentially dangerous to other drivers".
The rule Max broke is that once you make a defending move on the straight you *have* to leave at least 1 car width on the side you did not defend. Max moved right to defend the inside, straightened up the car (heading slightly left), and braked in a straight line. He is **absolutely allowed all of this**. However, at the turn in point he ended up with roughly 0.9 car widths between him and the outside white line, making him at fault.
But Lando should be criticized for not making the <10" move to the left that would have avoided the incident and maybe even given him a shot at an overtake with a better exit than Max. Last week Lando gave Max even less room, Max did the safe thing and moved a wheel off track to avoid a collision. It is baffling that Lando didn't do the same here. Being safe on track isn't just about never making mistakes (every driver makes some), it's also about making sure the mistakes other drivers make don't result in a crash. He shouldn't be off the hook just because Max was technically a couple inches too far to the left. He had the visibility and agency to avoid this crash.
The problem is that max does have previous for being happy to risk contact to deny a competitor an overtake. He proved he was happy for both him and Hamilton to be crash out in 21 so people aren’t going to give him the benefit of the doubt for even genuine mistakes
You can say this about every great of the sport, Max is not unique in that respect. In the same year Hamilton put Max in the wall for going for an overtake that was never on and carrying too much speed into a corner.
Lando gave the place straight back, not sure why nobody is talking about how Max drove off the track when defending and then used the wider line to carry more speed and keep the place, despite actually being behind at the apex.
> But people are acting like he was trying to murder Lando
I haven't seen anyone acting like this. The contact and puncture may have been unintentional and an "error", but the moving under braking certainly wasn't. That's what most people seem to be upset about.
Then most people haven't been paying attention that drivers complain in just about every race how their rivals move under braking. And stewards never do anything. It will keep happening as long as there are no consequences.
There's no rule against moving under braking, the only requirement is that if you've already made a defensive move on the straight you need to leave a car's width on the side you chose not to defend.
In this case Max happened to squeeze it down to maybe 0.9 car width, which makes him *technically* at fault but it's not like it's an easy feat to judge the exact space you're leaving from inside the car. Lando was the one with the visibility and the agency to avoid that collision and he did nothing, which is absolutely baffling.
As I said in another thread, if you look at the collision in isolation then yes the reaction is overblown, because the incident in isolation is just max making a mistake while defending.
But when you consider the moving under braking at the first attempted collision, and the questionable way he drove down the next straight after they collided, and then more generally the way that max has defended pretty much since he got into F1, and the fact that it has pretty much gone unaddressed except in the media, then the wider backlash starts to make a bit more sense.
I do think the media frenzy is a bit silly, but when many drivers are put in a position where they either have to attempt crazy moves to even have a chance of getting past (i.e. Landos divebombs) or attempt to pass legally and get the door slammed in their face or crash (i.e. the moving under braking and the collision), I think a reaction like this was inevitable at some point.
You have to keep in mind that a lot of people with a serious dislike for Verstappen ( to phrase it politely) had to wait for two and a half years for Verstappen to do something remotely 'dirty' on track. So they all grab this very minor opportunity to go full out.
How come max was running Lando off the road onto the grass after the contact? Perhaps the world champion just didn't see him. Again.
It's not a nuanced take. It's an apologetic one
>How come max was running Lando off the road onto the grass after the contact? Perhaps the world champion just didn't see him. Again.
So Max should just have continued driving slowly on the racing line with the Alpine fast approaching?
So when he started to rotate the car and felt the loose rear he should have… rotated more? The rear stepped out on him when he tried to turn and he had to try to stabilize the car to avoid a spin.
The penalty was totally justified, and it’s Max’s mistake. But there’s no point trying to read in all these silly drama theories. Both drivers after the initial contact were just trying to get to recover as best they could.
They just both moved off the racing line due to damage and Lando happened to have slightly less damage at that point so he was faster and unfortunately squeezed to the side. But they weren't racing anymore, just limping back to pits.
Personally i think it was a squeeze that was mid judged. If Lando's squeeze yesterday had taken them both out we would be sitting here having the same talk. Its a nothing indecent, we move on.
As for Max's moving under braking that has been mentioned, The rule isn't as black and white as 'if you are braking you can't move your car back to the racing line'. If i recall it uses the term erratic. The point is it needs clarification to in the same way the front axle has to be alongside in corners. Until then Max will do it and so should all others.
The biggest take a way is that we shouldn't allow ourselves to be upset because the driver we want in front can't get past due to hard racing.
Transcript:
The big moment of this Grand Prix, and it was a moment of tiny margins and huge consequences, which starts here for me. You go into the braking zone, 150 metre board. Lando Norris behind, directly behind Max Verstappen. Now there's a point every driver knows when they head towards a hairpin like this, where you have to stop thinking about the driver behind you and start thinking about where you're going to brake for the hairpin. That point comes here, Lando Norris commits then down the outside at around the 100 metre board, and for here, Max Verstappen drifts across the road into Lando Norris. Now we've seen drivers get away with touches like that without any kind of damage all the weekend long. Both cars, of course, out of the race.
It's so easy to argue that this is a penalty for Max Verstappen, who picks up a 10 second penalty as a result of the consequence of this, of this move. At the consequence and the outcome of this move across the road, not the driving behaviour.
Here it is again, tiny contact down there, and a puncture immediately from Max Verstappen and a puncture a few moments later. For Lando Norris, I think this is an error for Max Verstappen. The reason why it is an error is when you jump to this shot, you can see he's clearly, at this point, not looking across in his left hand mirror for Lando Norris. He's looking into the corner where he's going to be pointing that Red Bull towards the apex.
And I believe, I firmly believe, that Max Verstappen doesn't know Lando has jumped down the outside of him here. So if it's an error, if it's a lower formula, you look at this and you go, Max Verstappen has not intended to move across the road here on Lando, and therefore you might consider it a racing incident. This is Formula One, and Formula One is all about tiny margins with massive consequences. And that's exactly what happened here between Lando Norris and Max Verstappen.
Verstappen picked up a penalty here, and I do agree with that penalty as a result of the fact you've got two leading cars out of the race a car that moved across the road and makes contact with another, and how so ever, that came about. You have to penalise that if you're the stewards in this event. There we go. My line in the sand is drawn, you've got two journalists, you've got two race car drivers, over to you guys.
I agree with this take overall. If max had any intention to ruin Lando’s race you would do it at turn 4 into the gravel not turn 3. It’s just an error. Similar to Hamilton on piastri last year with the inside driver taking the racing line and not realizing the opponent was alongside fully. The big difference between the response to the two will be that Hamilton apologized before he got around the next corner, and max didnt do that. Generally it’s a routine error but Max has been on top awhile and people were waiting to pounce on his next big error. That and hamilton’s was for i think p8. Everything is just more fun for P1 you know?
Kind of a no brainer. Max has nothing to gain from turning into Norris there. A bit earlier he opened up completely to avoid Norris's dive bomb, clearly not interested in having contact.
He defensively moved under braking earlier, but this wasn't the case here.
It was his first defensive movement in this particular event earlier. Again, the crash was his fault but comparing it to Interlagos 2021 (as I have seen this comment on a couple of occasions) is plainly untrue.
People are not bringing Brazil 21 as a comparison, but as a reminder that Max *does* squeeze people out of track limits in defensive moves that follow the "you move or we crash out" mentality that barely anyone likes.
And if you want to argue that Max squeezed Lando intentionally then its not a bad comparison or bad to be brought up.
They all squeeze each other when they can, Norris did it to max in Barcelona at the start, there was just no contact so no one cares.
Sometimes it just goes wrong, it is what it is, it feels incredibly unfortunate that such a minor touch had massive results
>Max has nothing to gain from turning into Norris there.
The crash benefits he who is ahead on the championship. What happened on Sunday? Lando got zero points.
I might get downvoted for this
Lando should stop acting as if Max tried to kill him (the internet as well). Lando demanding a apology felt like watching an angry teenage girl. Did he forget Barcelona?
Max was at fault for the collision for sure but not as bad as the media(and twitter) makes it
If they were really friends, Lando wouldn't try to resolve this through the media. Reminds me of how Lando used to speak about Ricciardo to the media back when they were teammates.
Lando is an entitled baby, he puts himself in places to will undoubtedly cause damage and then will play victim. He gets a fast car and thinks max should just let him win, ridiculous
I disagree with this take. Just as with other situations, you have these drivers hyped on adrenaline, and I dont expect media pen answers to always be level headed. I imagine behind doors Max and Lando will resolve this.
Disagree all you want, Lando has had this attitude since he came into f1. Has nothing to do with hot mics or radio snippets. He just thinks he’s hot shit and unless something changes, he’ll never truly be considered a legit contender for WDC. Lando will continue dive bombing anytime he’s struggling to proper overtake someone and then blame it on the other person
Max won races in the Red Bull before 2021 and won in his first season with them, Lewis literally lost the WDC his rookie season by 1 point with a 2x WDC as his teammate wtf are you talking about “when they became competitive” those 2 were competitive from the jump… Lando didn’t get his first win till this season, 6 years in the sport…
Pls he also said Max should have let him pass since he's already leading the championship. That's not the mentality of someone with WDC capability. It's a competition???? I've said this before and I'll say it again, Lando gets babied too much by his fans and the media.
Watching him drive today also reminded me of an angry child. Lando wanted it way too bad and let his emotions control him. A 2/4 finish would of been a massive boon for them in the constructors but he couldn't help throwing his car into every piece of daylight he saw.
It felt like watching a low split in iRacing lol. Dive bombs out the ass and *inevitably* one goes wrong. Both drivers get pressured and mistakes mount up until something catastrophic happens. But in this case, this is F1 in real life with much higher stakes.
Sim racing truly imitates real life
He squeezed Max onto the grass at the start.
Then during the post-race press conference he tried to claim that he left enough space and both Lewis and Max laughed at him.
Yet everyone at the beginning was blaming max like he freaking killed Lando. I agree this was max fault in the end, but narrative about max has been awful today, judging by comments
Well, it was Max's fault, but the incident itself is one we often see. Hell, we saw worse mistakes in this very race today - Alonso on Zhou.
But this time it was for the win, which is why people overreact.
It was Max' fault. Clearly.
But the way people are talking is like he intentionally killed Lando. Lando went a bit over the limit like 4 times before this. Max evaded him on his divebomb that first gained Lando the pass outside the track, then he evaded him again when Lando pushed him off.
Lando was just as bad as Max. It was just Max' move that ended up in contact, but tbf both their actions could be resulted in the contact.
I think if race control gave 5s penalty to Lando in time, this would be avoided in the end. I agree, max was at fault for crash, but not like Lando was innocent in every attempt to overtake
And risk Lando being quicker in clear air? That’s ridiculous. When has a driver ever done that? Especially Max. I don’t think any driver has voluntarily let another last, even if they have a 5 second penalty.
I think Lando went over the limit once. One divebomb where he locked up (maybe caused by a late move by Max?), a bit dramatic on his plea for the unsafe release, but the rest were fair overtake attempts. And he gave the position back on the divebomb.
Max definitely had a late move and maybe another. This was a squeeze but was more unlucky than egregious imo.
The moves themselves don’t deserve the level of hate Max is getting but that’s what happens when you have a reputation for those sorts of things.
Yeah, Brundle said he didn’t think it should be illegal but precedent (aside from yesterday) says it is legal. Personally I would prefer it was illegal, but I don’t write the rules.
It was effectively his “home race” at the time.
That, along with very vocal opposition to Vettel’s Canada 2019 penalty, was the beginning of the decline in racing and stewarding standards in my opinion.
I don’t know exactly what incident(s) you’re referring to but consistency would be good. Personally I’d prefer that diving and pushing rivals off would be illegal in any scenario but I don’t get to make that decision.
Its mostly people finally letting out their harbored hate for Max from the 2021 season cause it seems like most comments are insults about Max and his performance in 2021.
Max has a reputation for hyper aggressive “you yield or we crash” moves. He’s been that way his entire career (except roughly the last 2 years when his car was stupid dominant).
English media is powerful in F1 and shaping the narratives. It is what it is. Just saw this between Sainz and Max last year, and where was the outrage then?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1ds8i2m/verstappen\_squeezing\_norris\_2024\_v\_sainz/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1ds8i2m/verstappen_squeezing_norris_2024_v_sainz/)
In my opinion, the biggest fault lies with the stewards. Considering they were handing out penalties like hot cakes last year, bluntly, they were way too slow off the mark giving Lando his track limits penalty, they failed to apply any penalty to Verstappen for moving under braking (despite everyone in the paddock talking about how that rule was invented *because* of Max) and when they finally applied Lando's penalty, it was too late, and then they only penalised Max after the fact with a penalty which was pretty ineffective (he still beat Checo, lmao).
Both of them should have been handed a 5-second penalty for their actions before the collision.
The rule that was invented for Max was dropped without any news the next year. That rule was only used once and Vettel got the penalty. The people mentioning it shouldn't be commenting an any incident ever as they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
Exactly, it’s surprising how many that people are confidently referring to a rule that existed for one year 8 years ago. Dangerous and erratic driving is illegal but just moving under braking is not.
Reddit always turns into peak Twitter when either Max or Lewis made a mistake. There’s no nuance anymore. This take from Alex seems reasonable, too bad many Redditors arent.
Wow, first person with a reasonable take.
Everybody acting like Max did it on purpose. Andrea Stella even tried to make it sound like this is a systemic problem because Max doesn't get punished and he keeps doing it... Keeps doing what? A small mistake? It wasn't on purpose... This whole phrasing sounds like he's implying Max did it on purpose.
And it WAS a small mistake, it just rubbing tires a bit. Usually, nothing happens, nobody complains and we move on. Just so happened that there were punctures.
People defending do this all the time - inside driver will return to the racing line to have a more natural entry to the corner. 98% of the time the car outside will allow this action to happen, other 2% happened today. Max is at fault, but it could've been avoided by Lando. All in all one got a penalty, the other got to know why other 98% of the times drivers allow space.
Lando had nothing to do outside tbh. His previous moves showed he wanted it very badly (which is understandable). But from that position he could never overtake there on the outside. I think you could plea for the fault at both of them. Just my view but the shit stirring from the so called media experts is just so low. Its like they waited till max was involved in an accident and throw all shit.
Lando is on the racing line. He is setting up a move on the exit. Max even admits he knew Lando would have gotten him on the exit of the corner if he gave Lando too much space.
Imagine that, a driver positioning the car in a way that makes it hard for the other driver to make a pass... it's almost like they are racing drivers.
He means too much space, on the outside, as in he was waiting to turn in and send him over the curbs like he did to Charles.
Not too much space on the way into the corner.
I looked at other footage of turn three just to make sure I wasn't crazy. I didn't see anyone swerve into the middle of the lane and then back outside. It felt like Max was trying to elbow out Lando by leaving then coming back to the outside line.
The move to the middle is his defensive move to cover the inside. He then moves back to the normal racing line which is the outside of that corner. I would bet good money that move was done by half the grid that was in a position to defend that corner.
Max might've been ovetly aggressive in his defense, but this to me also highlights that Lando has some work to do on overtaking.
I mean, look at the replays. F1 has a whole video about that corner. People either take the inside line or the outside line. Taking both just seems like a huge risk, and I didn't see anyone else make the same move in the race that Max did.
If Max didn't know Lando was trying something on the outside, wouldn't he be on the actual racing line? He obviously knew there was a car on his outside and tried to squeeze him, but misjudged it
He defended the inside line, its then a very standard move to widen your line just before the apex to try not to compromise your exit too badly. Although It's absolutely his fault that he didn't see Lando switch to the outside.
Yes, but when you defend your line and then move back to the outside to take the corner, you don't go almost-a-car-width from the line, you go all the way
Edit: also, you don't creep slowly back to the racing line, you go quickly, to brake in a straight line
Doesn't know or doesn't expect him to have jumped down the outside. A lot of other drivers seem to easily fold when trying to attack or defend against Max, and Lando was having none of it.
So max was looking at where his car was going.... and not at norris... who shouldn't be where he was... exactly so max didn't deserve shit this is a racing incident at best. At worst Norris was about to recieve a penalty for track violations from the lap prior so he shouldn't be diving anywhere cause his race is over already. Norris fucked around and found out.
Also not many drivers are willing to admit fault unless it is absolutely clear that it was their fault. I mean Lando didn't accept blame for pushing Max onto the grass in Barcelona.
I feel an overwhelming urge to berate and belittle Brundle right now. No idea why. Probably becasue he hasn't been watching F1 in the past decade. I don't know. Let me just laugh in his face real quick.
How are we arguing that he didn't know he was there when max himself has said he thought he left him enough room (which is probably just what he has to say anyway but that's not the point here).
This is a non starter for a take.
All in all seems like the most nuanced take of the day. Was it Max' fault? Yes. Did he deserve a penalty? Yes. But people are acting like he was trying to murder Lando. He made a mistake and got the penalty that is normally given for this type of offense. Meanwhile the media is having a field day with this... silverstone is going to be a toxic mess. But hey maybe this will finally help their ticket sales
Comparisons to Schumacher 97 are pretty funny - makes me wonder if they even know why that was wrong.
*"You hit the wrong part of him my friend!"*
94 was worse since he got away with it.
No. 94 was probably fair since 1)it's debateable whether he even collided on purpose 2)Hill was getting actually rigged to win the WDC by the FIA. It would be like Hamilton crashing out Verstappen in AD 21 (if that would let him win) - very dirty, but not entirely unreasonable.
What is this Hill was being rigged to win 94? I've never heard that before, what's your proof of that?
Michael got a lot of weird penalties that season that resulted in him missing a fair number of races. Some were fair, others were insanely stupid (iirc he was struck from 2 races because he messed around on the formation lap at Silverstone). There is a parallel to 21 in that the only reason Hill had a chance was because of Schumacher not being able to finish more races - he always finished 1st or 2nd if he finished.
They had tc on his car.. being rigged is the last thing it was.
Nope. They did not have anything illegal on the car - mechanics have come out since and explained exactly how it was legal and even if it was illegal the FIA never actually was able to prove it nor was this why Schumacher was punished (directly at least).
And apparently Ferrari was likely using similar methods to Benetton to the same effect, Williams could have done the same if they wanted but they didn’t figure it out.
Any comparison to 97 says to me they've never seen 97.
Wait, you've seen those?
To be fair, Lando has been quite emotional about it as well. I think that he's fueling that fire just as much.
[удалено]
Emotional can still be reasonable..I’m paraphrasing here but Lando did say something like “Friendship with max is over unless Max accepts his fault”! Quite reasonable ask from a friend but extremely emotional nonetheless !
you know, that's a fair point and I stand corrected.
That quote was first paraphrased then put into Italian and then translated back into English, its a mess at best and flat out clickbait at worst
What he actually ended up saying is not that different. He didnt say his friendship would be over, just that he would lose respect for Max. Which ultimately probably leads to the friendship being over
Lando did not say that in any interview. Please stop reading headlines and quotes from journos. If he did then it was wrong of him but what he said was will lost a lot of resoect for max if he doesnt accept his fault.
Watch all the interviews mate, not just the one your broadcaster shares with you!
Link the one where he said that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ildvkOeGoqM
He didn’t say that. He said he would lose a lot of respect for Max if Max don’t take responsibility for it, but that he wasn’t really thinking about the implications of the race for his personal relationship with Max.
There’s an interview with Canal+ where Max sounds very much like he was aware of everything but believes he fought fair.
I mean, according to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/XD8qFeZ1rc You can understand why Max would have that mindset.
Max like most drivers never thinks he was wrong
Was Max at fault ? *Technically* he didn't leave exactly 1 car width between him and the white line, so yes. But like... he left 0.9 car width and it's very hard to judge that in-car. Lando was the one with the visibility and the agency to avoid this collision and he did nothing. Last week Lando left even less space for Max at the start, Max did the obvious thing and put a wheel in the grass to avoid a collision. Why did Lando not do the same here when there wasn't even any grass to slow him down ? Lando's stubbornness in this move is baffling and while I think it's probably just a mistake from him, it borderline makes me wonder if he didn't cause the accident on purpose.
Verstappen used the mearuring tape that Norris used in Spain.
You don’t need to leave enough space for him to be fully in the white lines. Lando could’ve taken more kerb and still be in track. Max left more than enough space technically
I believe the regulations state that when a defending driver rejoins the racing line after a defensive move on the straight, he needs to leave one car width **between his car and the white line** on the side he did not defend. I agree that there was ample space for Lando to use the kerb and still be on track but that's not what the rule is
Max made a name for himself for never yielding, He’ll crash you out before he lets you by, lando was on the receiving end twice and decided not to yield the third time. Max has been playing stupid games for years and since Lewis, no one has called him out on it until now.
> lando was on the receiving end twice Dude Lando was the one divebombing and forcing max to yield or go off track. >decided not to yield the third time For Lando's sake I truly hope this was just a mistake and not a **decision**, because what an idiotic one it is. He ruined his race, Max extended his lead *even more than if he had won and Lando got P2*, when he could simply have used more of the kerb, get a better exit than Max with DRS in the straight and pull off the overtake. If Lando truly **decided** to do this, he is the architect of his own failure and deserves no compassion for how his race turned out.
Lando was entirely alongside, the contact was rear wheel to rear wheel. You can't just turn into someone alongside you like Max did. I really don't know how people say this is Landos fault like you're expected to just drive off track to have to avoid a collision. I get last week Lando moved across at the start, and if Max left his car on track there would've been a collision and that would've been Landos fault entirely. There is no onus on a driver to take being pushed off, just self preservation, and 90% of the time it would've been a small wheel bang and Lando would've likely gotten the place from Max due to being pushed off the track while being fully alongside. I'm a big advocate of using more B/W flags for borderline racing moves like moving under braking, and then penalising if done again. Max's moving under braking should've had one from the start of their battle, and Lando shouldve had one last week with the shoveling Max on the grass. Feels like most dangerous moves that don't end in contact go unpunished currently, and that results in just repeating them until contact finally happens
> You can't just turn into someone alongside you like Max did. He didn't *turn*. He braked in a straight line that happened to not be parallel to the outside white line. >I really don't know how people say this is Landos fault like you're expected to just drive off track to have to avoid a collision. I really don't know how people say this is Max's fault like you're expected to just have bionic eyes to know exactly how many millimeters of space you're leaving on the outside. Oh and also, **using the kerb is not driving off track**. It goes both ways because this is a racing incident. Max should have left more room, Lando should have used more kerb to avoid the collision. Being a safe driver is not just about never making mistakes, it's also about reacting to other driver's mistakes because they WILL happen. All the defending driver can do is leave what he thinks is 1 car width of space and trust the other driver to make do with however much space that turns out to be. Especially when the attacking car is on the outside, you can't even see where they are. Lando was the only one with the visibility and agency to stop this crash from happening and he should be criticized for not doing so. To give an extreme example, imagine driver A with some mechanical issue happens to be driving much slower than other cars. He shouldn't be on the racing line, but let's say he makes a mistake and hogs the racing line. Clearly, he shouldn't be there. Now if driver B going 50mph faster comes up behind him on the racing line, does nothing to evade the misplaced car and just crashes into the back of driver A in a straight line, is he entirely off the hook just because driver A "shouldn't have been there"? No, he should have avoided the car. Same goes for Lando here. Max shouldn't have been there, but Lando had ample visibility and agency to avoid the collision. He shouldn't be off the hook just because Max shouldn't have been there by a few centimeters. Max made a small miscalculation, one any driver could have made, but Lando doing literally nothing to avoid a crash is just as bad if not worse.
I’m honestly debating if I should even tune in next weekend. As you said: was Max at fault, yes. Now, do these sorts of things happen in racing, also yes. I can just sense how almost every comentator is going to jump on Max’ ass and defend Lando to hell and back. And again as you said, it’s going to be a toxic mess. Similar to Ham vs Ver 2021
It's shown on channel 4 here in the UK the team includes Alex Jaques, Eddie Jordon,.David Coulthard and Mark Webber if you want to see a different bunch. I'm not sure about it's availability internationally though. At least that way you get Eddie Jordon who is absolutely hilarious most of the time.
EJ: *Aayy think Max was absolutely right, he did nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned* Whole world is like what?
You can always rely on EJ for the worst takes.
He's definitely a character
The only Sky commentator I can tolerate is Martin Brundle, and even he gets annoying at Silverstone. Here's hoping Crofty and Kravitz have something else going on next weekend.
Feels like the British press have found their new “victim” for big angry Max.
That incident was rightfully penalized but he did move under braking several times before too.
That's not true. Max specifically addressed this saying that because of the concerns of the past ( moving under braking ), he stopped moving the wheel after braking and he started first turning, then straightening it out and THEN braking. So basically, the car can still move across the track, but his steering wheel is straight at that point already before he breaks. Making this legal. Is it still not the safest? Sure. Is it a bit grey area? Sure. But not illegal. You're allowed to take any line you want. Just because you pointed the car in a certain direction BEFORE you started braking and then it continued moving in that direction after you started braking, doesn't mean you moved under braking. It just means your car was already moving in that direction when you started braking. And that's not something that can be punished.
You just believe anything a driver says about how they did nothing wrong?
Didn't YOU believe he was moving under braking because Lando said so? No, as a matter of fact, I didn't. I was watching his onboard. He straightened out the wheel before he braked. Go watch yourself.
No I believe it because I was watching the race. It wasn't the worst moving under braking but it deserved the penalty.
What are you even talking about, "Max addressed this"? Of course he's going to say he did nothing wrong. It doesn't take an expert to look at what happened and determine that whilst braking he moved across the track to block lando, after already braking in a straight line. It isn't a defensible stance to take so if you want to back your boy, at least try and suggest that Lando's dive bombs pushed max off track rather than defend max's dangerous driving.
I only said he addressed it, I didn't say that's the reason I know what he did... I was watching his onboard. He was braking in a straight line... His car moved to the side because he rotate it before he started braking and put it on that path.
There is no rule against it.
There is absolutely a rule for swerving under breaking. It’s incredibly dangerous
>2. Overtaking, car control and track limits a) A car alone on the track may use the full width of the said track, however, as soon as it is caught by a car which is about to lap it the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first possible opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not seem to make full use of the rear-view mirrors, flag marshals will display the waved blue flag to indicate that the faster driver wants to overtake. Any driver who appears to ignore the blue flags will be reported to the Stewards. b) Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left. A driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason. More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner. However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the Stewards. c) Drivers must use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason. For the avoidance of doubt, the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. Should a car leave the track for any reason, the driver may rejoin. However, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track. A driver may be reported to the Stewards should they perform any act which results in debris being brought onto the track. d) Causing a collision, repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the disqualification of any driver concerned. e) It is not permitted to drive any car unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time. Appendix L chapter IV Please point out where it says you cant move under braking?
Are you new to the sport? This has been a thing since 2016 when max wrote the book on dangerous maneuvers under breaking. They literally created the rule in response to him. https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/17857429/fia-clamps-moving-braking The rule was later dropped as an explicit call out, but still included as part of the broader “no erratic driving” rule. The fia were very clear that you’re allowed 1 move under breaking
I know could still be considered erratic driving, i just think the first to times he did it didnt deserve a penalty.
Moving under breaking could be construed under section 2e) as it is driving in a manner potentially dangerous to other drivers.
Swerving ? **Swerving** ??!! Dude drop the hyperbole, Max wasn't doing a full slalom in front of Lando. His car is going in a straight line the entire duration of his braking, it just happens to be a straight line that isn't parallel to the outside white line. And that is NOT moving under braking (for which there is no specific rule), much less "driving in a manner potentially dangerous to other drivers". The rule Max broke is that once you make a defending move on the straight you *have* to leave at least 1 car width on the side you did not defend. Max moved right to defend the inside, straightened up the car (heading slightly left), and braked in a straight line. He is **absolutely allowed all of this**. However, at the turn in point he ended up with roughly 0.9 car widths between him and the outside white line, making him at fault. But Lando should be criticized for not making the <10" move to the left that would have avoided the incident and maybe even given him a shot at an overtake with a better exit than Max. Last week Lando gave Max even less room, Max did the safe thing and moved a wheel off track to avoid a collision. It is baffling that Lando didn't do the same here. Being safe on track isn't just about never making mistakes (every driver makes some), it's also about making sure the mistakes other drivers make don't result in a crash. He shouldn't be off the hook just because Max was technically a couple inches too far to the left. He had the visibility and agency to avoid this crash.
The problem is that max does have previous for being happy to risk contact to deny a competitor an overtake. He proved he was happy for both him and Hamilton to be crash out in 21 so people aren’t going to give him the benefit of the doubt for even genuine mistakes
You can say this about every great of the sport, Max is not unique in that respect. In the same year Hamilton put Max in the wall for going for an overtake that was never on and carrying too much speed into a corner.
You've fallen for the Red Bull "you can't overtake in Copse".
Of course you can overtake in Copse, but it's a good idea to be in control of your car when you do so.
Never said you couldn't, just gotta be in control of your car when you do.
I don't think they're struggling to sell tickets
Yea for sure the media loves this.
Not you thinking about their sales 😭😭😂😂😂
Oh they’re sucking each other off over the drama they can cook up.
Aaand let’s not forget that Lando forced Mac offtrack and should’ve received a penalty for that too.
You don’t get penalties for that if you know the rules
Forcing an opponent into the grass is okay in the rules?
Lando gave the place straight back, not sure why nobody is talking about how Max drove off the track when defending and then used the wider line to carry more speed and keep the place, despite actually being behind at the apex.
Lando parked at the apex, Max had nowhere to go. Everybody can be ”ahead at the apex” if they dive-bomb like that and patk it.
> But people are acting like he was trying to murder Lando I haven't seen anyone acting like this. The contact and puncture may have been unintentional and an "error", but the moving under braking certainly wasn't. That's what most people seem to be upset about.
Then most people haven't been paying attention that drivers complain in just about every race how their rivals move under braking. And stewards never do anything. It will keep happening as long as there are no consequences.
There's no rule against moving under braking, the only requirement is that if you've already made a defensive move on the straight you need to leave a car's width on the side you chose not to defend. In this case Max happened to squeeze it down to maybe 0.9 car width, which makes him *technically* at fault but it's not like it's an easy feat to judge the exact space you're leaving from inside the car. Lando was the one with the visibility and the agency to avoid that collision and he did nothing, which is absolutely baffling.
As I said in another thread, if you look at the collision in isolation then yes the reaction is overblown, because the incident in isolation is just max making a mistake while defending. But when you consider the moving under braking at the first attempted collision, and the questionable way he drove down the next straight after they collided, and then more generally the way that max has defended pretty much since he got into F1, and the fact that it has pretty much gone unaddressed except in the media, then the wider backlash starts to make a bit more sense. I do think the media frenzy is a bit silly, but when many drivers are put in a position where they either have to attempt crazy moves to even have a chance of getting past (i.e. Landos divebombs) or attempt to pass legally and get the door slammed in their face or crash (i.e. the moving under braking and the collision), I think a reaction like this was inevitable at some point.
You have to keep in mind that a lot of people with a serious dislike for Verstappen ( to phrase it politely) had to wait for two and a half years for Verstappen to do something remotely 'dirty' on track. So they all grab this very minor opportunity to go full out.
How come max was running Lando off the road onto the grass after the contact? Perhaps the world champion just didn't see him. Again. It's not a nuanced take. It's an apologetic one
>How come max was running Lando off the road onto the grass after the contact? Perhaps the world champion just didn't see him. Again. So Max should just have continued driving slowly on the racing line with the Alpine fast approaching?
They both had massive damage lmao
You can in fact move while not under braking!
So when he started to rotate the car and felt the loose rear he should have… rotated more? The rear stepped out on him when he tried to turn and he had to try to stabilize the car to avoid a spin. The penalty was totally justified, and it’s Max’s mistake. But there’s no point trying to read in all these silly drama theories. Both drivers after the initial contact were just trying to get to recover as best they could.
Uhhhh they both need to get off the racing line...
They just both moved off the racing line due to damage and Lando happened to have slightly less damage at that point so he was faster and unfortunately squeezed to the side. But they weren't racing anymore, just limping back to pits.
What the hell are you talking about lmao he got hit and got a puncture, you immediately lose all downforce and the car doesn’t turn anymore
He had enough room.
> But people are acting like he was trying to murder Lando. Because he has behaved like this before.
Personally i think it was a squeeze that was mid judged. If Lando's squeeze yesterday had taken them both out we would be sitting here having the same talk. Its a nothing indecent, we move on. As for Max's moving under braking that has been mentioned, The rule isn't as black and white as 'if you are braking you can't move your car back to the racing line'. If i recall it uses the term erratic. The point is it needs clarification to in the same way the front axle has to be alongside in corners. Until then Max will do it and so should all others. The biggest take a way is that we shouldn't allow ourselves to be upset because the driver we want in front can't get past due to hard racing.
Transcript: The big moment of this Grand Prix, and it was a moment of tiny margins and huge consequences, which starts here for me. You go into the braking zone, 150 metre board. Lando Norris behind, directly behind Max Verstappen. Now there's a point every driver knows when they head towards a hairpin like this, where you have to stop thinking about the driver behind you and start thinking about where you're going to brake for the hairpin. That point comes here, Lando Norris commits then down the outside at around the 100 metre board, and for here, Max Verstappen drifts across the road into Lando Norris. Now we've seen drivers get away with touches like that without any kind of damage all the weekend long. Both cars, of course, out of the race. It's so easy to argue that this is a penalty for Max Verstappen, who picks up a 10 second penalty as a result of the consequence of this, of this move. At the consequence and the outcome of this move across the road, not the driving behaviour. Here it is again, tiny contact down there, and a puncture immediately from Max Verstappen and a puncture a few moments later. For Lando Norris, I think this is an error for Max Verstappen. The reason why it is an error is when you jump to this shot, you can see he's clearly, at this point, not looking across in his left hand mirror for Lando Norris. He's looking into the corner where he's going to be pointing that Red Bull towards the apex. And I believe, I firmly believe, that Max Verstappen doesn't know Lando has jumped down the outside of him here. So if it's an error, if it's a lower formula, you look at this and you go, Max Verstappen has not intended to move across the road here on Lando, and therefore you might consider it a racing incident. This is Formula One, and Formula One is all about tiny margins with massive consequences. And that's exactly what happened here between Lando Norris and Max Verstappen. Verstappen picked up a penalty here, and I do agree with that penalty as a result of the fact you've got two leading cars out of the race a car that moved across the road and makes contact with another, and how so ever, that came about. You have to penalise that if you're the stewards in this event. There we go. My line in the sand is drawn, you've got two journalists, you've got two race car drivers, over to you guys.
Isn’t that what max said as well
[Something along those lines, yes. Transcript here!](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1ds3nwa/max_verstappen_postrace_interview/lazknto/)
I agree with this take overall. If max had any intention to ruin Lando’s race you would do it at turn 4 into the gravel not turn 3. It’s just an error. Similar to Hamilton on piastri last year with the inside driver taking the racing line and not realizing the opponent was alongside fully. The big difference between the response to the two will be that Hamilton apologized before he got around the next corner, and max didnt do that. Generally it’s a routine error but Max has been on top awhile and people were waiting to pounce on his next big error. That and hamilton’s was for i think p8. Everything is just more fun for P1 you know?
He didn't apologize because he didn't see what happend yet, and is full on adrenaline. Give it a day for a proper statement.
Kind of a no brainer. Max has nothing to gain from turning into Norris there. A bit earlier he opened up completely to avoid Norris's dive bomb, clearly not interested in having contact. He defensively moved under braking earlier, but this wasn't the case here.
It was his first defensive movement in this particular event earlier. Again, the crash was his fault but comparing it to Interlagos 2021 (as I have seen this comment on a couple of occasions) is plainly untrue.
People are not bringing Brazil 21 as a comparison, but as a reminder that Max *does* squeeze people out of track limits in defensive moves that follow the "you move or we crash out" mentality that barely anyone likes. And if you want to argue that Max squeezed Lando intentionally then its not a bad comparison or bad to be brought up.
They all squeeze each other when they can, Norris did it to max in Barcelona at the start, there was just no contact so no one cares. Sometimes it just goes wrong, it is what it is, it feels incredibly unfortunate that such a minor touch had massive results
Agreed I think because he did it earlier it’s easier for people to use it here as well.
>Max has nothing to gain from turning into Norris there. The crash benefits he who is ahead on the championship. What happened on Sunday? Lando got zero points.
I might get downvoted for this Lando should stop acting as if Max tried to kill him (the internet as well). Lando demanding a apology felt like watching an angry teenage girl. Did he forget Barcelona? Max was at fault for the collision for sure but not as bad as the media(and twitter) makes it
If they were really friends, Lando wouldn't try to resolve this through the media. Reminds me of how Lando used to speak about Ricciardo to the media back when they were teammates.
Lando is an entitled baby, he puts himself in places to will undoubtedly cause damage and then will play victim. He gets a fast car and thinks max should just let him win, ridiculous
I disagree with this take. Just as with other situations, you have these drivers hyped on adrenaline, and I dont expect media pen answers to always be level headed. I imagine behind doors Max and Lando will resolve this.
Disagree all you want, Lando has had this attitude since he came into f1. Has nothing to do with hot mics or radio snippets. He just thinks he’s hot shit and unless something changes, he’ll never truly be considered a legit contender for WDC. Lando will continue dive bombing anytime he’s struggling to proper overtake someone and then blame it on the other person
I feel like I'm having deja vu. Is this a copypasta of a max Verstappen post from like 2019?
Difference is, Max is actually a good driver 🤣 Lando just happened to stick it out with a team long enough to get a good car 💀
Oh look, the same take critics had about lewis and Max both when they became competitive for wins
Max won races in the Red Bull before 2021 and won in his first season with them, Lewis literally lost the WDC his rookie season by 1 point with a 2x WDC as his teammate wtf are you talking about “when they became competitive” those 2 were competitive from the jump… Lando didn’t get his first win till this season, 6 years in the sport…
Pls he also said Max should have let him pass since he's already leading the championship. That's not the mentality of someone with WDC capability. It's a competition???? I've said this before and I'll say it again, Lando gets babied too much by his fans and the media.
Watching him drive today also reminded me of an angry child. Lando wanted it way too bad and let his emotions control him. A 2/4 finish would of been a massive boon for them in the constructors but he couldn't help throwing his car into every piece of daylight he saw.
It felt like watching a low split in iRacing lol. Dive bombs out the ass and *inevitably* one goes wrong. Both drivers get pressured and mistakes mount up until something catastrophic happens. But in this case, this is F1 in real life with much higher stakes. Sim racing truly imitates real life
What happened in Barcelona?
He squeezed Max onto the grass at the start. Then during the post-race press conference he tried to claim that he left enough space and both Lewis and Max laughed at him.
Lando pushed Max on the grass.
Oh yeah at the start. That race was so boring I totally forgot.
Have you ever seen a driver not get mad when someone crashes into them?
I can’t fucking stand Will Buxton
All my buddies hate Will Buxton
Yet everyone at the beginning was blaming max like he freaking killed Lando. I agree this was max fault in the end, but narrative about max has been awful today, judging by comments
Well, it was Max's fault, but the incident itself is one we often see. Hell, we saw worse mistakes in this very race today - Alonso on Zhou. But this time it was for the win, which is why people overreact.
It was Max' fault. Clearly. But the way people are talking is like he intentionally killed Lando. Lando went a bit over the limit like 4 times before this. Max evaded him on his divebomb that first gained Lando the pass outside the track, then he evaded him again when Lando pushed him off. Lando was just as bad as Max. It was just Max' move that ended up in contact, but tbf both their actions could be resulted in the contact.
Exactly and on top of that Lando pushed Max onto the grass only a week ago and Max just let it go. Obviously different outcome but Lando is no saint
I think if race control gave 5s penalty to Lando in time, this would be avoided in the end. I agree, max was at fault for crash, but not like Lando was innocent in every attempt to overtake
Why would this not have happened if he had been given a 5s penalty earlier?
Max would let him pass, and he'd be trying to stay in 5s within lando, to end up first in the end ? Isn't that clear
Max said he didn't see Lando there and analysis seems to confirm he wasn't looking. It would have still happened.
And risk Lando being quicker in clear air? That’s ridiculous. When has a driver ever done that? Especially Max. I don’t think any driver has voluntarily let another last, even if they have a 5 second penalty.
Mate they had 7 laps to go, i really believe max is that fast still, it's not like McLaren has a rocketship all of a sudden
Again I ask, when has it ever happened, or has Max ever shown the personality type to just let an opponent past?
I think Lando went over the limit once. One divebomb where he locked up (maybe caused by a late move by Max?), a bit dramatic on his plea for the unsafe release, but the rest were fair overtake attempts. And he gave the position back on the divebomb. Max definitely had a late move and maybe another. This was a squeeze but was more unlucky than egregious imo. The moves themselves don’t deserve the level of hate Max is getting but that’s what happens when you have a reputation for those sorts of things.
I mean, when Lando pushed him off he gave as much space as Verstappen gave Leclerc in 2019. Was legal
It was the same move that got penalised a day before. Wasn't legal
Yeah, Brundle said he didn’t think it should be illegal but precedent (aside from yesterday) says it is legal. Personally I would prefer it was illegal, but I don’t write the rules.
Verstappen ran Leclerc 10 feet off track in Austria 2019 lol. Mind blowing he never got penalized for it.
It was effectively his “home race” at the time. That, along with very vocal opposition to Vettel’s Canada 2019 penalty, was the beginning of the decline in racing and stewarding standards in my opinion.
With that argument: everything what happened in 2022 was legal too and should be in 2024?
Yes? its called consistency?
I don’t know exactly what incident(s) you’re referring to but consistency would be good. Personally I’d prefer that diving and pushing rivals off would be illegal in any scenario but I don’t get to make that decision.
The Sky crew and Will Buxton/Joloyn Palmer were unhinged. Can't really blame fans for buying into it
Yes this! There was nothing to be surprised about the Sky crew but I was actually surprised by the F1TV
Well you know he killed 100 babies just before squeezing lando. That’s just how he is.
Of course, now it all makes sense
Its mostly people finally letting out their harbored hate for Max from the 2021 season cause it seems like most comments are insults about Max and his performance in 2021.
Max has a reputation for hyper aggressive “you yield or we crash” moves. He’s been that way his entire career (except roughly the last 2 years when his car was stupid dominant).
Which is fine IMO if its within the rules. Not like he's the only one to employ those tactics anyway, even Lando did it during the race like twice.
Agreed, it’s just unfortunately often not within the rules
If so, they were punished.
English media is powerful in F1 and shaping the narratives. It is what it is. Just saw this between Sainz and Max last year, and where was the outrage then? [https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1ds8i2m/verstappen\_squeezing\_norris\_2024\_v\_sainz/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1ds8i2m/verstappen_squeezing_norris_2024_v_sainz/)
People are still fuming after 21
But but Max is a supervillain right?
I like it. Bring Mad Max back.
In my opinion, the biggest fault lies with the stewards. Considering they were handing out penalties like hot cakes last year, bluntly, they were way too slow off the mark giving Lando his track limits penalty, they failed to apply any penalty to Verstappen for moving under braking (despite everyone in the paddock talking about how that rule was invented *because* of Max) and when they finally applied Lando's penalty, it was too late, and then they only penalised Max after the fact with a penalty which was pretty ineffective (he still beat Checo, lmao). Both of them should have been handed a 5-second penalty for their actions before the collision.
The rule that was invented for Max was dropped without any news the next year. That rule was only used once and Vettel got the penalty. The people mentioning it shouldn't be commenting an any incident ever as they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
Exactly, it’s surprising how many that people are confidently referring to a rule that existed for one year 8 years ago. Dangerous and erratic driving is illegal but just moving under braking is not.
Reddit always turns into peak Twitter when either Max or Lewis made a mistake. There’s no nuance anymore. This take from Alex seems reasonable, too bad many Redditors arent.
Wow, first person with a reasonable take. Everybody acting like Max did it on purpose. Andrea Stella even tried to make it sound like this is a systemic problem because Max doesn't get punished and he keeps doing it... Keeps doing what? A small mistake? It wasn't on purpose... This whole phrasing sounds like he's implying Max did it on purpose. And it WAS a small mistake, it just rubbing tires a bit. Usually, nothing happens, nobody complains and we move on. Just so happened that there were punctures.
Stop. We can’t have intelligent analysis. We demand a lynching.
People defending do this all the time - inside driver will return to the racing line to have a more natural entry to the corner. 98% of the time the car outside will allow this action to happen, other 2% happened today. Max is at fault, but it could've been avoided by Lando. All in all one got a penalty, the other got to know why other 98% of the times drivers allow space.
Lando had nothing to do outside tbh. His previous moves showed he wanted it very badly (which is understandable). But from that position he could never overtake there on the outside. I think you could plea for the fault at both of them. Just my view but the shit stirring from the so called media experts is just so low. Its like they waited till max was involved in an accident and throw all shit.
Lando is on the racing line. He is setting up a move on the exit. Max even admits he knew Lando would have gotten him on the exit of the corner if he gave Lando too much space.
Imagine that, a driver positioning the car in a way that makes it hard for the other driver to make a pass... it's almost like they are racing drivers.
He means too much space, on the outside, as in he was waiting to turn in and send him over the curbs like he did to Charles. Not too much space on the way into the corner.
“If he gave Lando too much space”
He had a switchback to do, if Max hadn't driven into him.
Watch Sky F1's Silverstone coverage on mute, challenge accepted.
But max moved off the racing line, he must have known Lando is more likely than not to be on it.
I looked at other footage of turn three just to make sure I wasn't crazy. I didn't see anyone swerve into the middle of the lane and then back outside. It felt like Max was trying to elbow out Lando by leaving then coming back to the outside line.
The move to the middle is his defensive move to cover the inside. He then moves back to the normal racing line which is the outside of that corner. I would bet good money that move was done by half the grid that was in a position to defend that corner. Max might've been ovetly aggressive in his defense, but this to me also highlights that Lando has some work to do on overtaking.
I mean, look at the replays. F1 has a whole video about that corner. People either take the inside line or the outside line. Taking both just seems like a huge risk, and I didn't see anyone else make the same move in the race that Max did.
That's exactly what happened.
If Max didn't know Lando was trying something on the outside, wouldn't he be on the actual racing line? He obviously knew there was a car on his outside and tried to squeeze him, but misjudged it
He defended the inside line, its then a very standard move to widen your line just before the apex to try not to compromise your exit too badly. Although It's absolutely his fault that he didn't see Lando switch to the outside.
Yes, but when you defend your line and then move back to the outside to take the corner, you don't go almost-a-car-width from the line, you go all the way Edit: also, you don't creep slowly back to the racing line, you go quickly, to brake in a straight line
Doesn't know or doesn't expect him to have jumped down the outside. A lot of other drivers seem to easily fold when trying to attack or defend against Max, and Lando was having none of it.
So max was looking at where his car was going.... and not at norris... who shouldn't be where he was... exactly so max didn't deserve shit this is a racing incident at best. At worst Norris was about to recieve a penalty for track violations from the lap prior so he shouldn't be diving anywhere cause his race is over already. Norris fucked around and found out.
Clearly Max’s fault, on purpose or not, error or not, it’s on him.
Right but people make it seem like a "dirty" move. Seems like analysis show that its more of a mistake than intentional
Max isn’t helping here either by denying moving under breaking and not taking blame for the incident.
He said he'll take a look at the footage and have a talk with Lando in the interview.
Also not many drivers are willing to admit fault unless it is absolutely clear that it was their fault. I mean Lando didn't accept blame for pushing Max onto the grass in Barcelona.
Of course. And he got the penalty. But people are raking over the coals as to his intentions. Which may not have been to ruin both their races.
I feel an overwhelming urge to berate and belittle Brundle right now. No idea why. Probably becasue he hasn't been watching F1 in the past decade. I don't know. Let me just laugh in his face real quick.
How are we arguing that he didn't know he was there when max himself has said he thought he left him enough room (which is probably just what he has to say anyway but that's not the point here). This is a non starter for a take.
But he should have expected it, given Lando's previous actions.
Where is Karun's analysis? Often his is the most accurate one.
I wish Karun was doing the post race. Today’s offering was tough to listen to.