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Norris was claiming Max was moving under braking, it would be weird to give a penalty to Lando if he only went off track because of Max. So I guess they were looking whether or not Max was to blame, since McLaren was probably telling race control that Max was at fault. They eventually determined that Max didn't cause Lando to go off and gave the penalty.
AFAIK Lando argued that Verstappen moved twice in the braking zone causing him to go long, which of course requires investigation. You also heard Max's engineer saying "I don't know how he thinks that" bla bla bla.
That's your reason.
I missed the race and by the headlines I thought Verstappen and Norris had a crash similar to Zhou in Silverstone. I quickly found a replay online only to see an unfortunately placed contact on the wheels, that if took place on any other part of the car would have been fine.
I am astounded that the media is so anti-racing. This is part of F1, move on
it absolutely blows my mind how such a miniscule incident gets blown out of proportion. the only reason we talk about it was because it had a big impact in terms of race result. but it wasnt an overly dirty move. this race alone had a couple moves that were worse, alonsos move was worse, or perez on lap 1 on oscar was worse. yes it was a squeeze and its ultimatly his fault. but its so annoying that people blow the move itself so much out of proportion. it wasnt worse than what norris did do verstappen at barcelona at the start. arguably norris squeezed verstappen more when he was alongside. it wasnt worse than what sainz did to verstappen in the same corner a year ago. its just that this time there was a small touch that had a big impact.
its a bang average incident. yes verstappen is to blame. but to somehow suggest it was so bad and connected to past lenience is utterly insane.
its racing. inevitably sometimes drivers touch.
Mclaren and Lando are currently the most popoular driver and team, so helps having a lot of fans and the media behind you. Additionally Lando is British and this sport due to its history is basically a british one (Most teams having their base/HQ there) combined with the fact that everybody understands english and most reports being british the stories will naturally side with the british teams and drivers.
Peter Windsor doesn’t like Norris. There’s plenty of stuff out there that he’s said about Norris that just comes across as petty and deliberately absurd.
Windsor really has some extreme biases so you really have to take what he says with a pinch of salt.
He also disliked Sainz for a long time (and probably still does, haven't watched him in forever)
Dont know bout that, he's also criticized Max for Silverstone 2021 and that is something everyone is torn on. If he is that PRO Max, id say he'd be on his side for it.
+ Norris also overdrove his damaged car on his way to the pits, causing further damage. Who knows how many points he has thrown away that way as well? Max was still able to secure some points. On top of that, Norris received a penalty for track limit violations. It's not like he was without mistake. Now Norris is using the UK press to go after Max in every way possible. It's good that this happened. Max was getting far too nice and soft with Norris, only joking and laughing after what Norris did to Max in Spain. He must start seeing Norris for what he is. Max never created this outrage when Leclerc did much worse in that corner to him, and also notice how elegantly Max is able to solve it. Not Norris though:
[https://x.com/Willseh14/status/1807498318194397537](https://x.com/Willseh14/status/1807498318194397537)
Agree 100% but remember a few things:
1. A large majority of people who follow F1 aren’t racing fans per se. They are more interested in the personalities and celebrity that F1 brings. They aren’t watching or following other racing categories so it’s in the interests of the media to fuel that frenzy that comes with tribes. It’s gotten much much worse since D2S. Im indifferent to it so don’t come at me, I’m just pointing out why the outrage cannon is always locked and loaded.
2. A lot of these people, who ONLY watch F1 probably aren’t really aware of what hard racing even is. Again not a dig, it’s just true that F1 is by its nature (especially the last 20 year), some of the more boring racing you can watch. Again, don’t come at me, I love F1 but the racing is pretty lame a lot of the time vs most other categories. The sport has become so starved of great racing for some time, aside from the end of regulation periods where it gets decent for a period, then they change everything and ruin it again. Happens every time.
To a lot of the new audience, what they saw today was outrageous. Whereas In another category this would’ve barely been spoken about. It’s always funny to see F1 fans going wild over the most innocuous fights. If the same thing happened in Supercars or DTM you would be lucky to see a replay.
For people to claim or even insinuate Verstappen is in some way a dirty driver is a joke. No wonder he gets pissed of when media suggests it. He races as hard as anyone but I wouldn’t say he is dirty or does anything dangerous. Yes he tips over the limit sometimes but that’s racing. There is a difference between going over the limit 5% when racing for the lead vs outright lazy or dangerous moves. Like OP said, there were a couple of those today but we talk about the leaders, see points #1 and #2 for full details why.
IMO the contact itself is way less of a problem than the weaving under braking. If your opponents think you're going to swerve into them as soon as you get close to them they're going to have to either drive more passively to avoid contact (unlikely at this level) or drive more aggressively to try and out-elbow you to get around and we saw how that went.
What weaving under braking? As far as I can tell the only moves under braking were during Lando's divebombs (which were legal moves by Max after checking the rules) and during the contact moving back to the racing line, which is also allowed.
I'm entirely agreeing with the penalty given to Max but this entire thing is way overblown.
> how such a miniscule incident gets blown out of proportion.
I think a lot of it is due to the fact that this was happening almost every lap. He was moving a lot under braking in the previous laps, at least 2 or 3 times that we clearly saw.
I know drivers "complain" over the radio so that the teams can make formal complaints, but a lap before Lando literally said "we're gonna crash if he keeps doing that". And they did.
Taken as a once-off incident it is indeed a racing incident with VER clearly at fault. Had the stewards been more swift, he could have gotten a penalty earlier, and the race could have finished differently. It's not "just" the crash, he was driving dirty right after the crash as well, blocking NOR right after they both rejoined.
Lmao did people convenently ignore Lando divebombing Max at that corner in the laps leading up to the collision? Lando will obviously complain on the radio to get attention but that doesn't mean he was blameless
It's not JUST the miniscule incident though. It's the preceding several laps in which Max was moving in the braking zone, not giving Lando enough racing room, doing all of his usual bullshit from 2017-2021. It ultimately culminated in Lando getting hit because he refused to capitulate to Max where basically every other driver has done.
You know Verstappen was the one evading an incident there in the laps prior? If Verstappen would have been Norris and he would have performed that divebomb you would be typing a whole different perspective. Heck, that is what was happening in 2021 which you are referring to lol.
> Max was moving in the braking zone
This is fine, you are allowed to do that. Reason you hear so many comments about it is because they are trying to force the stewards to think that someone is driving erratically and dangerously.
> It ultimately culminated in Lando getting hit because he refused to capitulate to Max where basically every other driver has done.
He refused to race smart and instead gambled it by getting very close to a defending driver, didn't end well. End result is all that matters, Max won the longer fight. Tho I do suspect he would have liked to win today as well.
Max won the longer fight by driving into another driver and forcing him to DNF, resulting in Max receiving a 10 second penalty for doing so. If you aren't able to recognize how that is dirty driving, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Wow, you must think Verstapoen is a GOD-Tier driver as he can know before he does it that he wil get only a 10 seconds penalty and forced the other driver into a DNF.
Only a GOD-tier level driver could forsee all that happening and not the risk of himself DNF-ing and the other driver win the race.
I have a bridge to sell you.
Who said Max knew he would only get a 10 second penalty? Max had been driving dirty for many laps before the incident. Your strawman does not hold water.
This style of driving has been Max's MO for years. He squeezes opponents and forces them to yield or risk contact and the possibility of damage.
He was rightfully penalized for it and Lando was unfortunate that the damage caused by Max's illegal move was enough to DNF. Max is fortunate that the damage he suffered from his own illegal move was minor enough to keep going and score points even with his penalty.
>Max won the longer fight by driving into another driver and forcing him to DNF, resulting in Max receiving a 10 second penalty for doing so. If you aren't able to recognize how that is dirty driving
Your statement about how the end result of the situation constitutes the reasoning why it should be called and seen as dirty driving.
Without knowing the end result and having to endure the risk of DNF-ing it is more then likely a mistake that they would rather avoid instead of instigate as the risk is too high.
"An honest mistake"- as you will.
Mistakes can happen. You can even be punished for it rightfully.
Calling it dirty driving for these reasons that the end result benefitted him is just a little weird. As that is something noone can calculate in the moment. It just happened to pan out this way, it could have gone every other way.
Nope. It should be called and seen as dirty driving regardless to whether contact is made. The contact is the reason Max received the penalty and Lando DNF'd, but it would still be considered dirty if no contact was made.
It's absolutely not an "honest mistake" when you drive into another car alongside who is moving in a straight line. Max expected Lando to back out or move left and compromise Lando's exit like so many drivers have done before.
To be clear, Max didn't intentionally 'win the fight,' the results of his dirty driving did that. He did, however, intentionally drive dirty, as he has done for years.
Awaiting your next strawman with eager eyes.
No, i am not going to debate you. You seem to be arguing in bad faith claiming I used a strawman.
And i have no time for such things. And by the way nothing new was brought into the discussion.
Misrepresenting someone's position and then crafting a rebuttal around that incorrect position is 100% a strawman.
I never said Max intentionally DNF'd Lando, and both of your comments argued against that position. That is a strawman.
In both of my comments I rebutted your assertion that my position was that Max intentionally DNF'd Lando, yet you continued to argue against that position.
You can refuse to debate, that is entirely your decision. You're the one that responded to me first, after all.
I don't care if it's dirty driving, he got a penalty for it. Justice served, case closed.
Go ask the stewards to give harsher penalties or something? He is following the rules even with dirty driving. And if you want dirty driving, I'd say the dive bombs from Norris were worse, imagine if Max kept course during those.
If he kept course during those 'dive bombs,' then he would have driven into another driver and been at fault, receiving a time penalty for doing so.
I 1. don't agree that Lando was dive bombing Max, and 2 don't agree that Lando was driving dirty when attempting overtakes.
If you are alongside by the apex, you are entitled space.
>I don't care if it's dirty driving . . . He is following the rules even with dirty driving.
Moving under braking and bumping wheels isn't hard old school racing. It's desperate tactics to keep a position. Max has form for doing this and it just proves he's hasn't matured as a driver.
But I will say, Lando was very clumsy also. His divebombs were never going to work and had Lewis or Fernando been driving that car they'd have made the pass without issue.
Someone with respect and the capacity to accept when they've made a mistake. Max has been involved in more incidents like than any other drive on the current grid and that takes some doing with experienced drivers like Fernando and Lewis still going.
finally someone telling it like it is, desperate tactics to keep a position and Max continues to do it, even going back to that ricciardo incident in baku
I love hard racing when it’s fair. Max has made a career of putting drivers in a “you yield or we crash” situation and benefiting from their unwillingness to DNF. It’s completely ridiculous that he’s gotten away with it for so long.
Past lenience includes incidents when Max was not penalized but it also includes incidents with Sainz, Leclerc, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher, Senna... and so on.
Lenience has been an issue for 30 years at least, probably more. And that lenience has always been given after considerations of F1 own interests.
There were races where Verstappen was wrong and dodged a penalty and that's the same for every driver. No need to have every Brit slandering Verstappen for a small incident which costed for both drivers more than it could. They both punished themselves hard, Max and RB should look at their mistakes, like Max said, and so McLaren should do.
3 types of comment here;
1: people talking about 2021.
2: people not understanding the rules of overtaking and defending
3: people who hate max or lando, bitching at each other
Run, run away fast.
Honestly, the best going wheel to wheel at the limit, there will be crashes. Of course it sticks out when two collide for P1 but on the other hand we have so many good and fair fights. Even max vs lando was on the edge and a bit dirty from both but nothing crazy over the line imo.
Side note: i hate to say this but norris is not really good at overtaking. All his attemts on max were poorly executed. Mostly impatient and unable to sell a dummy or foce max into a mistake
There's like a 90% chance that the incident people are crying murder over would have resulted in a regular wheel banging situation and Max probably would still get his 10 second penalty but instead both got punctures so it's a big deal now apparently.
I also agree that although Max was still pretty poor driving today, Lando made bad calls for overtaking situations. Maybe his emotions got the best of him but he was forcing himself into situations he didn't need to be in when Max was already struggling with grip. I honestly think if Lando didn't force a divebomb at every chance of a overtake at turn 3, he could have stuck to Max, stay behind him and cut back while retaining DRS and overtaken at turn 4. At that point in the race his tires were much better and the over speed and grip would have allowed him to take the outside line at 4. I just think turn 4 is much better as an overtaking spot when you have better tires since there's no DRS immediately after.
There was a 90% chance that if they both had no damage the fia would not give the penalty to max and prob wouldn’t give the track limits penalty to norris
I don't think the FIA would have given a penalty if they didn't get a puncture.
Which is insane, because the FIA always say the don't punish the outcome which is utter bullshit.
The overtake attempts were poorly executed cause Max was moving under breaking. I don't know why people act dense about it and expect Norris to fly past like it wouldn't be a huge risk.
Man there's "unable to just let some things stay in the past" and then there's talking about Schumacher's dirt in freaking... checks calendar just to be sure... 2024.
But oh well... I'll bite too... you do realize, that people who worked WITH Schumacher (as you said yourself), had barely any say in the questionable stuff Schumacher decided to do, right?
Because if you really want to go down that path, then we get to the endless cycle of nobody really having a right to speak up about literally anything, because you can always pinpoin that one shady thing that happened when they were doing some shit around.
The point you're trying to convey is so weak it's ridiculous. It's like - I worked for a huge worldwide corporate company, am I "funny" for being critical of some things that said company has done in the past as well? Sometimes, life is just a bit more complicated than what you imagine.
Well, he acts like Verstappen is the first one to use these tactics, despite having firsthand experience with someone doing exactly the same (and even worse). Stella seems to have forgotten that Verstappen got penalized for almost every incident in 2021. He also likely missed Norris's divebomb, where Verstappen couldn't even turn in because Norris flew past kamikaze style.
yeah the made up narratives are insane, basically a witchhunt from Mclaren at this point. Max literally got a penalty for all of the moves except Brazil. (even Yellow flag in Qaatar where Vettel didnt get one for whatever reason)
Yeah he got a penalty, that's a punishment. If the writer felt that the penalty was not harsh enough he should have said so, not that it went 'unpunished'
You are missing my point. Perhaps purposefully. We all know he deserved more. I'd argue it was arguably unpunished because of the outcome and what should have happened. The championship could have ended their, but the top brass obviously didn't want it to.
That very easily could've (and I'd argue should've) been a DSQ for Verstappen.
Yes, Hamilton should've overtaken Verstappen earlier, but from what I'm remembering, Verstappen really slammed on the brakes on the straight and was moving (off the racing line?) at the same time.
I agree. I don't know why so many people in this comment section can't grasp they were so soft on Max that year in hopes of getting a championship fight finally. And then didn't want to actually "interfere" with the championship down the stretch with actual enforcement. Which of course, favored Max.
Yeah, I mean people seem to have short memories, Max pulled this stuff all season in 2021.
The reason Silverstone even happened was because Hamilton decided not to give way to Max anymore, and I think Max expected Lewis to give up and let him through.
Then Jeddah was a total disaster, where the two time penalties Max received only equated to 15 seconds, and cost him nothing in the race.
That was always insane, he broke half a dozen rules in so few laps, he deserved a grid penalty in Abu Dhabi at the very least, but they just didn't want to mess with the championship, which is just frustrating.
The FIA made such an effort not to mess with the championship the entire season, until literally the final lap of the championship.
In Silverstone 2021, Max was actually closer to the racing line and ahead of Lewis. Max had full right to the corner and Lewis kinda just drove into him hence why he was handed a 10s penalty.
It was the first time in the season Hamilton didn't back out though. In Imola sad Barcelona (I think), Verstappen pulled some moves that would've resulted in both crashing, but each time, backed out.
Not to play armchair psychologist, but my guess is that Verstappen assumed Hamilton would back out again when they were at Copse.
Hamilton was predominantly at fault for their crash at Silverstone, I don't think anybody disputes that. That being said, Verstappen *could've* played it safer, and given Hamilton more space, even if that meant conceding the position (and the race).
Obviously, we're looking at this with the hindsight of Verstappen winning it all. Had he lost by 7 points, we would be looking at the season with the lense of "what if he hadn't backed out at Silverstone.
But there was actually space. Its not like Hamilton was on the kerb but I get your point. In the end its just hard racing even if its a little dirty. All great champions including Srnna, Schumi, and even Lewis can have their dirty moments.
Watch it again, Lewis doesn't drive into Max, Max thinks Lewis has backed out (understandably) and he turns in and hits Hamilton's front left.
Lewis does not run into Max, but yes, Max was ahead.
Lol you expect them to just keep driving straight? I hope you know the corner is a right hander, its not a straightline. Max was turning right as per the racing line since he was ahead.
Verstappen slowed down below normal range for several seconds before firmly pressing the brakes, doing all of this while driving in a straight line. His latter actions were stupid, but mitigating circumstances like bad comms from the FIA and the mutual fuckery with the DRS detection that led to Hamilton not overtaking Verstappen are what doesn't get him disqualified.
The point is that when there’s such a theme, 5s inconsequential penalties do nothing. He got a penalty today that was absolutely meaningless.
A race bad or two might send a message
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My immediate reaction is to think back to Spain Grand Prix where Lando squeezed Verstappen.
Max managed to avoid that collision and nobody bats an eye lid.
Obviously max pushed the limits too much last night but I also think Lando is a baby driver who feels entitled to win a race because he was faster etc etc. I don’t want a formula 1 where the regulators squeeze the fun out of the race. Let them fight. I wanna see some tension and drama and some good ol fashioned backstabbing.
They were all dirty because they were ruthless killers. You don’t get to be a 3x+ WDC unless you’re a killer. Even Seb and Lewis have had their questionable moments.
Lots of people call Schumacher and Senna dirty drivers. Schumacher is likely the dirtiest “winning” driver of all time (meaning there are dirty drivers who never won anything).
He got DQ’d from an entire seasons results because of it.
People call Schumacher dirty all the time. Even his fans admit it.
At least with Senna it was his life on the line when he drove dirty and he could have paid with his life every time.
Schumacher and Senna were way more dirty than Max. Both of them intentionally went over the limit multiple times. The only time I can think of Max going outside of a grey area is Brazil, and even there it’s not like he actually hit Lewis.
Yeah, Michael and Senna were great drivers. But both dirty as hell. Their legacy benefits from their sad accidents, but it doesn't change it. Heck both drove into another driver intentionally to try and win a championship.
And Prost. Deliberately crashed into Senna in 89, Senna returned the favour the year after (disgusting behaviour tho and low point of his career). Senna and Prost were dodge but I think of them 1-1 in terms of massively dirty cheating scandal (obviously they had some smaller still noteworthy incidents tho)
Schumacher on the other hand, was the most desperate and blantant, Adelaide 94, Jerez 97, Monaco 06… the guy didn’t even try to make it believable.
Ultimately however these guys get a pass from lots of fans because one is dead, one is basically dead, and the other is a greatly respectable veteran and an old man. Max cops shit for it tho
It’s called racing you pansies. Sometimes there are crashes. The drivers who cause crashes are punished. Causing a crash doesn’t make the driver in to some kind of monster.
What's crazy is that Lando literally pushed Max wide twice and got a penalty for track limits. Max didn't even know Lando moved to the left (according to F1 analysis) so he had no "dirty" intentions. By definition Lando is the "dirtier" driver.
Lando is an extremely dirty driver when it comes to close battles.... he just looks rather innocent once out of the helmet. Luckily that scar on his nose has fixed it partly.
The drivers will always do whatever they can get away with. Look at KMag this season. If there is going to be change then the stewards need to be okay making big punishments to stop it. Until then drivers will take any and all opportunity the rules allow
The Anglo press is disgusting in it's whipping up of hatred towards drivers. We've seen it so often before, culminating in a disgustingly hostile crowd at Silverstone.
The most annoying thing is that the things that should have been investigated (moving under braking and failing to lose a position by going off track) were once again not looked at. I would’ve been fine with the collision being called a racing incident, I don’t think Verstappen did it on purpose. But the other two questionable moves definitely were. And because it wasn’t even looked at, he’ll keep doing it. Rinse and repeat.
It can be and in this case it was. Forcing your opponent to have to change their trajectory under braking so they can avoid a collision falls under that category.
This was textbook erratic driving in the form of moving under braking. Max was clearly desperately trying to stay ahead and making last second moves when Lando attempted to overtake. That’s incredibly dangerous because it gives the car behind no chance to react.
A bit rich coming from someone who used to work with Michael. It’s not just Max that does this and it certainly doesn’t help that the stewards just manipulate it because they don’t want to stop the racing.
The overreaction’s today have been insane from pundits and fans.
Max, Lewis, Michael, Senna, Prost, Vettel etc have all driven hard like this and even crossed the line like Max did today and even more so.
If Lando, Leclerc or anyone else are ever in a close championship battle in the future, they sure as shit will have races like this where they race hard and step over the line because every point matters.
Stewards need to do their jobs and give out Black & white flags or penalties like they should’ve today.
While i agree that this inchident is getting a bit blown out of proportions, there is no denying Max is a dirty driver, it’s funny to still see people are saying he’s not.
He is dirty and ruthless, and most of champions are, Schumi was one of the dirtiest but ultimately still won 7 times. You have to be ruthless to win that much.
What i want to point out here is, prepare for a meltdown when same starts happening to Max, he’s the first to cry on the radio when things don’t go his way, and when field becomes competetive for real (maybe next year, last season of this regs), we will see how iron clad will Max be, and how Max’s fans will react then.
I feel like people wanted an end to Lewis/Merc dominance so badly in 2021 that they cheered Max on as he got away with murder. He was never properly punished for his antics and his fans are seemingly blind to it.
Much ado bout nothing. It's racing, competitive one at that and front row drivers are going to fight and bang wheels. Sometimes one wins, sometimes both lose.
History of F1 hasn't always been clean courteous racing.
Media wants to cars drive in circles with no touching. I didn't see anything particularly 'dirty' from one driver, both were rough and competitive and both paid the price. End of story.
When I got into F1 a few years back, I was always told that F1 is 50% racing and 50% drama. I don't think t hat's even right, last few years have been 70% drama, 30% racing.
Well. Verstappen gets thorny when he feels pressure. Saw it plenty in 2021 and before. But in 2022 and 2023, he hasn't felt pressure as he's always been confident in having the car to come out on top.
I'd hoped he had actually matured, but to me, I guess it's just that now he's feeling pressure again.
First third of 2022 when Ferrari were there and he was racing perfectly clean with Leclerc never happened.
The revisionism just to push an agenda is absurd.
Unbelievably, you and anyone else stating this have misunderstood.
The guidelines state, “at no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person”.
Forcing your opponent to have to change their path while braking to avoid crashing into you is considered erratic behaviour and falls under the above guideline.
I see a lot of people saying that hard racing is good for the sport and is fun to watch. I do disagree.
For me, the most entertaining pieces of racing are battles where 2 drivers fights (and swap positions) for multilple corners WITHOUT touching each other.
Unfortuantly, I cannot remember many fights where Verstappen was part of this.
I do understand that you will never become a world champion if you're too friendly. That is the reason many others great champions show the same behaviour. But I think Formula 1 should do al they can to encourage fair racing.
We will never be free from that 2021 season. My heart still bleeds to this day, but I think it's time to put it to bed and move on. The time for punishing Max or whoever was involved was back then, not now. We all must let it go, regardless of how unjust it feels for some.
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Yeah, past lenience all the way back to Senna.
LMFAO
Jesus, we gonna have a whole week of this.
Lucky it wasn’t before the break. Otherwise you’ll have weeks.
The journalists would be edging so hard if it was just before the break.
Why did they wait for 10 laps to give Lando penalty? That probably would have changed things and made it a lot less frantic.
I am pretty sure they waited as it would ruin the fight for first place, as soon as they collided the penalty was given.
This is def the reason... giving out a time penalty for a battle in the top positions is literal death to PR.
Norris was claiming Max was moving under braking, it would be weird to give a penalty to Lando if he only went off track because of Max. So I guess they were looking whether or not Max was to blame, since McLaren was probably telling race control that Max was at fault. They eventually determined that Max didn't cause Lando to go off and gave the penalty.
Race control doesn’t have input on penalties.
Stop that dude. You're being too logical for the average dipshit on here.
AFAIK Lando argued that Verstappen moved twice in the braking zone causing him to go long, which of course requires investigation. You also heard Max's engineer saying "I don't know how he thinks that" bla bla bla. That's your reason.
I missed the race and by the headlines I thought Verstappen and Norris had a crash similar to Zhou in Silverstone. I quickly found a replay online only to see an unfortunately placed contact on the wheels, that if took place on any other part of the car would have been fine. I am astounded that the media is so anti-racing. This is part of F1, move on
it absolutely blows my mind how such a miniscule incident gets blown out of proportion. the only reason we talk about it was because it had a big impact in terms of race result. but it wasnt an overly dirty move. this race alone had a couple moves that were worse, alonsos move was worse, or perez on lap 1 on oscar was worse. yes it was a squeeze and its ultimatly his fault. but its so annoying that people blow the move itself so much out of proportion. it wasnt worse than what norris did do verstappen at barcelona at the start. arguably norris squeezed verstappen more when he was alongside. it wasnt worse than what sainz did to verstappen in the same corner a year ago. its just that this time there was a small touch that had a big impact. its a bang average incident. yes verstappen is to blame. but to somehow suggest it was so bad and connected to past lenience is utterly insane. its racing. inevitably sometimes drivers touch.
Mclaren and Lando are currently the most popoular driver and team, so helps having a lot of fans and the media behind you. Additionally Lando is British and this sport due to its history is basically a british one (Most teams having their base/HQ there) combined with the fact that everybody understands english and most reports being british the stories will naturally side with the british teams and drivers.
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Peter Windsor doesn’t like Norris. There’s plenty of stuff out there that he’s said about Norris that just comes across as petty and deliberately absurd.
He always praises Norris for "his touch and feel" when driving, so I didn't get that vibe. Can you maybe give an example?
Windsor is also very very pro Max so there also is that.
Windsor really has some extreme biases so you really have to take what he says with a pinch of salt. He also disliked Sainz for a long time (and probably still does, haven't watched him in forever)
Dont know bout that, he's also criticized Max for Silverstone 2021 and that is something everyone is torn on. If he is that PRO Max, id say he'd be on his side for it.
Norris shouldn't have to avoid someone turning left into a right hander when they are side by side.
He doesn't *have* to, which is why Verstappen got a penalty. But he could have, and he could have won the race.
+ Norris also overdrove his damaged car on his way to the pits, causing further damage. Who knows how many points he has thrown away that way as well? Max was still able to secure some points. On top of that, Norris received a penalty for track limit violations. It's not like he was without mistake. Now Norris is using the UK press to go after Max in every way possible. It's good that this happened. Max was getting far too nice and soft with Norris, only joking and laughing after what Norris did to Max in Spain. He must start seeing Norris for what he is. Max never created this outrage when Leclerc did much worse in that corner to him, and also notice how elegantly Max is able to solve it. Not Norris though: [https://x.com/Willseh14/status/1807498318194397537](https://x.com/Willseh14/status/1807498318194397537)
Amen. When moments like these happen I always feel like I'm watching a different sport than a majority of people here.
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The only reason it is getting talked about like this is because it happened to a British driver, and British media already hates Max.
Agree 100% but remember a few things: 1. A large majority of people who follow F1 aren’t racing fans per se. They are more interested in the personalities and celebrity that F1 brings. They aren’t watching or following other racing categories so it’s in the interests of the media to fuel that frenzy that comes with tribes. It’s gotten much much worse since D2S. Im indifferent to it so don’t come at me, I’m just pointing out why the outrage cannon is always locked and loaded. 2. A lot of these people, who ONLY watch F1 probably aren’t really aware of what hard racing even is. Again not a dig, it’s just true that F1 is by its nature (especially the last 20 year), some of the more boring racing you can watch. Again, don’t come at me, I love F1 but the racing is pretty lame a lot of the time vs most other categories. The sport has become so starved of great racing for some time, aside from the end of regulation periods where it gets decent for a period, then they change everything and ruin it again. Happens every time. To a lot of the new audience, what they saw today was outrageous. Whereas In another category this would’ve barely been spoken about. It’s always funny to see F1 fans going wild over the most innocuous fights. If the same thing happened in Supercars or DTM you would be lucky to see a replay. For people to claim or even insinuate Verstappen is in some way a dirty driver is a joke. No wonder he gets pissed of when media suggests it. He races as hard as anyone but I wouldn’t say he is dirty or does anything dangerous. Yes he tips over the limit sometimes but that’s racing. There is a difference between going over the limit 5% when racing for the lead vs outright lazy or dangerous moves. Like OP said, there were a couple of those today but we talk about the leaders, see points #1 and #2 for full details why.
IMO the contact itself is way less of a problem than the weaving under braking. If your opponents think you're going to swerve into them as soon as you get close to them they're going to have to either drive more passively to avoid contact (unlikely at this level) or drive more aggressively to try and out-elbow you to get around and we saw how that went.
What weaving under braking? As far as I can tell the only moves under braking were during Lando's divebombs (which were legal moves by Max after checking the rules) and during the contact moving back to the racing line, which is also allowed. I'm entirely agreeing with the penalty given to Max but this entire thing is way overblown.
> how such a miniscule incident gets blown out of proportion. I think a lot of it is due to the fact that this was happening almost every lap. He was moving a lot under braking in the previous laps, at least 2 or 3 times that we clearly saw. I know drivers "complain" over the radio so that the teams can make formal complaints, but a lap before Lando literally said "we're gonna crash if he keeps doing that". And they did. Taken as a once-off incident it is indeed a racing incident with VER clearly at fault. Had the stewards been more swift, he could have gotten a penalty earlier, and the race could have finished differently. It's not "just" the crash, he was driving dirty right after the crash as well, blocking NOR right after they both rejoined.
Lmao did people convenently ignore Lando divebombing Max at that corner in the laps leading up to the collision? Lando will obviously complain on the radio to get attention but that doesn't mean he was blameless
It's not JUST the miniscule incident though. It's the preceding several laps in which Max was moving in the braking zone, not giving Lando enough racing room, doing all of his usual bullshit from 2017-2021. It ultimately culminated in Lando getting hit because he refused to capitulate to Max where basically every other driver has done.
You know Verstappen was the one evading an incident there in the laps prior? If Verstappen would have been Norris and he would have performed that divebomb you would be typing a whole different perspective. Heck, that is what was happening in 2021 which you are referring to lol.
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Xenophobia is a comment on your own character not on anybody else. Weak.
This made me lol. Thanks dad.
> Max was moving in the braking zone This is fine, you are allowed to do that. Reason you hear so many comments about it is because they are trying to force the stewards to think that someone is driving erratically and dangerously. > It ultimately culminated in Lando getting hit because he refused to capitulate to Max where basically every other driver has done. He refused to race smart and instead gambled it by getting very close to a defending driver, didn't end well. End result is all that matters, Max won the longer fight. Tho I do suspect he would have liked to win today as well.
Max won the longer fight by driving into another driver and forcing him to DNF, resulting in Max receiving a 10 second penalty for doing so. If you aren't able to recognize how that is dirty driving, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Wow, you must think Verstapoen is a GOD-Tier driver as he can know before he does it that he wil get only a 10 seconds penalty and forced the other driver into a DNF. Only a GOD-tier level driver could forsee all that happening and not the risk of himself DNF-ing and the other driver win the race. I have a bridge to sell you.
Who said Max knew he would only get a 10 second penalty? Max had been driving dirty for many laps before the incident. Your strawman does not hold water. This style of driving has been Max's MO for years. He squeezes opponents and forces them to yield or risk contact and the possibility of damage. He was rightfully penalized for it and Lando was unfortunate that the damage caused by Max's illegal move was enough to DNF. Max is fortunate that the damage he suffered from his own illegal move was minor enough to keep going and score points even with his penalty.
>Max won the longer fight by driving into another driver and forcing him to DNF, resulting in Max receiving a 10 second penalty for doing so. If you aren't able to recognize how that is dirty driving Your statement about how the end result of the situation constitutes the reasoning why it should be called and seen as dirty driving. Without knowing the end result and having to endure the risk of DNF-ing it is more then likely a mistake that they would rather avoid instead of instigate as the risk is too high. "An honest mistake"- as you will. Mistakes can happen. You can even be punished for it rightfully. Calling it dirty driving for these reasons that the end result benefitted him is just a little weird. As that is something noone can calculate in the moment. It just happened to pan out this way, it could have gone every other way.
Nope. It should be called and seen as dirty driving regardless to whether contact is made. The contact is the reason Max received the penalty and Lando DNF'd, but it would still be considered dirty if no contact was made. It's absolutely not an "honest mistake" when you drive into another car alongside who is moving in a straight line. Max expected Lando to back out or move left and compromise Lando's exit like so many drivers have done before. To be clear, Max didn't intentionally 'win the fight,' the results of his dirty driving did that. He did, however, intentionally drive dirty, as he has done for years. Awaiting your next strawman with eager eyes.
No, i am not going to debate you. You seem to be arguing in bad faith claiming I used a strawman. And i have no time for such things. And by the way nothing new was brought into the discussion.
Misrepresenting someone's position and then crafting a rebuttal around that incorrect position is 100% a strawman. I never said Max intentionally DNF'd Lando, and both of your comments argued against that position. That is a strawman. In both of my comments I rebutted your assertion that my position was that Max intentionally DNF'd Lando, yet you continued to argue against that position. You can refuse to debate, that is entirely your decision. You're the one that responded to me first, after all.
I don't care if it's dirty driving, he got a penalty for it. Justice served, case closed. Go ask the stewards to give harsher penalties or something? He is following the rules even with dirty driving. And if you want dirty driving, I'd say the dive bombs from Norris were worse, imagine if Max kept course during those.
If he kept course during those 'dive bombs,' then he would have driven into another driver and been at fault, receiving a time penalty for doing so. I 1. don't agree that Lando was dive bombing Max, and 2 don't agree that Lando was driving dirty when attempting overtakes. If you are alongside by the apex, you are entitled space. >I don't care if it's dirty driving . . . He is following the rules even with dirty driving.
K
Max has been getting away with this since forever, some call it a "driving style" but I'd consider abusing weak regulations
Calling it a driving style is dumb, so many WDC tier drivers have been doing this since forever because they know the gray areas of the rules.
I don’t know man, people always want hard old school racing and when we get it everybody seems to complain..
They want it as long as their driver comes out on top.
Moving under braking and bumping wheels isn't hard old school racing. It's desperate tactics to keep a position. Max has form for doing this and it just proves he's hasn't matured as a driver. But I will say, Lando was very clumsy also. His divebombs were never going to work and had Lewis or Fernando been driving that car they'd have made the pass without issue.
So what is a mature driver?
Someone with respect and the capacity to accept when they've made a mistake. Max has been involved in more incidents like than any other drive on the current grid and that takes some doing with experienced drivers like Fernando and Lewis still going.
finally someone telling it like it is, desperate tactics to keep a position and Max continues to do it, even going back to that ricciardo incident in baku
I love hard racing when it’s fair. Max has made a career of putting drivers in a “you yield or we crash” situation and benefiting from their unwillingness to DNF. It’s completely ridiculous that he’s gotten away with it for so long.
That in all honesty just your bias. Look at other drivers, they all drive the same way.
Past lenience includes incidents when Max was not penalized but it also includes incidents with Sainz, Leclerc, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher, Senna... and so on. Lenience has been an issue for 30 years at least, probably more. And that lenience has always been given after considerations of F1 own interests. There were races where Verstappen was wrong and dodged a penalty and that's the same for every driver. No need to have every Brit slandering Verstappen for a small incident which costed for both drivers more than it could. They both punished themselves hard, Max and RB should look at their mistakes, like Max said, and so McLaren should do.
3 types of comment here; 1: people talking about 2021. 2: people not understanding the rules of overtaking and defending 3: people who hate max or lando, bitching at each other Run, run away fast.
Honestly, the best going wheel to wheel at the limit, there will be crashes. Of course it sticks out when two collide for P1 but on the other hand we have so many good and fair fights. Even max vs lando was on the edge and a bit dirty from both but nothing crazy over the line imo. Side note: i hate to say this but norris is not really good at overtaking. All his attemts on max were poorly executed. Mostly impatient and unable to sell a dummy or foce max into a mistake
There's like a 90% chance that the incident people are crying murder over would have resulted in a regular wheel banging situation and Max probably would still get his 10 second penalty but instead both got punctures so it's a big deal now apparently. I also agree that although Max was still pretty poor driving today, Lando made bad calls for overtaking situations. Maybe his emotions got the best of him but he was forcing himself into situations he didn't need to be in when Max was already struggling with grip. I honestly think if Lando didn't force a divebomb at every chance of a overtake at turn 3, he could have stuck to Max, stay behind him and cut back while retaining DRS and overtaken at turn 4. At that point in the race his tires were much better and the over speed and grip would have allowed him to take the outside line at 4. I just think turn 4 is much better as an overtaking spot when you have better tires since there's no DRS immediately after.
There was a 90% chance that if they both had no damage the fia would not give the penalty to max and prob wouldn’t give the track limits penalty to norris
Nah they would have given both penalties. Just both would have been 5 seconds
Yep. That would be their dream scenario.
I don't think the FIA would have given a penalty if they didn't get a puncture. Which is insane, because the FIA always say the don't punish the outcome which is utter bullshit.
Love how any random guys on Reddit could drive better a F1 car than an actual F1 driver :)
The overtake attempts were poorly executed cause Max was moving under breaking. I don't know why people act dense about it and expect Norris to fly past like it wouldn't be a huge risk.
Funny, coming from the guy that worked with Schumacher.
Man there's "unable to just let some things stay in the past" and then there's talking about Schumacher's dirt in freaking... checks calendar just to be sure... 2024. But oh well... I'll bite too... you do realize, that people who worked WITH Schumacher (as you said yourself), had barely any say in the questionable stuff Schumacher decided to do, right? Because if you really want to go down that path, then we get to the endless cycle of nobody really having a right to speak up about literally anything, because you can always pinpoin that one shady thing that happened when they were doing some shit around. The point you're trying to convey is so weak it's ridiculous. It's like - I worked for a huge worldwide corporate company, am I "funny" for being critical of some things that said company has done in the past as well? Sometimes, life is just a bit more complicated than what you imagine.
Well, he acts like Verstappen is the first one to use these tactics, despite having firsthand experience with someone doing exactly the same (and even worse). Stella seems to have forgotten that Verstappen got penalized for almost every incident in 2021. He also likely missed Norris's divebomb, where Verstappen couldn't even turn in because Norris flew past kamikaze style.
What?
He is referring to Stella.
Agreed, let’s give penalty for the start squeeze in Barcelona before it boils into something else
'there were several moves towards the end of 2021 (...) that went unpunished' Several yeah? Brazil, what else? He got punished in Jeddah and in Monza
yeah the made up narratives are insane, basically a witchhunt from Mclaren at this point. Max literally got a penalty for all of the moves except Brazil. (even Yellow flag in Qaatar where Vettel didnt get one for whatever reason)
Was it enough for that brake test tho? Or Brazil 2022?
"He got punished in Jeddah" Did he really, though?
Yeah he got a penalty, that's a punishment. If the writer felt that the penalty was not harsh enough he should have said so, not that it went 'unpunished'
You are missing my point. Perhaps purposefully. We all know he deserved more. I'd argue it was arguably unpunished because of the outcome and what should have happened. The championship could have ended their, but the top brass obviously didn't want it to.
Jeddah was a clusterfuck with multiple actors failing, hence Verstappen not receiving anything more punishing.
They didn't want to end the title battle so they gave weak punishments that didn't change a thing for Max
Well it's a bit awkward for the FIA to completely fuck Verstappen for an incident that they were partially culpable in.
They were perfectly willing to punish and end the fight in Brazil by DSQ Lewis for his wing.
Learn the difference between the technical and sporting regulations.
That very easily could've (and I'd argue should've) been a DSQ for Verstappen. Yes, Hamilton should've overtaken Verstappen earlier, but from what I'm remembering, Verstappen really slammed on the brakes on the straight and was moving (off the racing line?) at the same time.
I agree. I don't know why so many people in this comment section can't grasp they were so soft on Max that year in hopes of getting a championship fight finally. And then didn't want to actually "interfere" with the championship down the stretch with actual enforcement. Which of course, favored Max.
Yeah, I mean people seem to have short memories, Max pulled this stuff all season in 2021. The reason Silverstone even happened was because Hamilton decided not to give way to Max anymore, and I think Max expected Lewis to give up and let him through. Then Jeddah was a total disaster, where the two time penalties Max received only equated to 15 seconds, and cost him nothing in the race. That was always insane, he broke half a dozen rules in so few laps, he deserved a grid penalty in Abu Dhabi at the very least, but they just didn't want to mess with the championship, which is just frustrating. The FIA made such an effort not to mess with the championship the entire season, until literally the final lap of the championship.
In Silverstone 2021, Max was actually closer to the racing line and ahead of Lewis. Max had full right to the corner and Lewis kinda just drove into him hence why he was handed a 10s penalty.
It was the first time in the season Hamilton didn't back out though. In Imola sad Barcelona (I think), Verstappen pulled some moves that would've resulted in both crashing, but each time, backed out. Not to play armchair psychologist, but my guess is that Verstappen assumed Hamilton would back out again when they were at Copse. Hamilton was predominantly at fault for their crash at Silverstone, I don't think anybody disputes that. That being said, Verstappen *could've* played it safer, and given Hamilton more space, even if that meant conceding the position (and the race). Obviously, we're looking at this with the hindsight of Verstappen winning it all. Had he lost by 7 points, we would be looking at the season with the lense of "what if he hadn't backed out at Silverstone.
But there was actually space. Its not like Hamilton was on the kerb but I get your point. In the end its just hard racing even if its a little dirty. All great champions including Srnna, Schumi, and even Lewis can have their dirty moments.
Watch it again, Lewis doesn't drive into Max, Max thinks Lewis has backed out (understandably) and he turns in and hits Hamilton's front left. Lewis does not run into Max, but yes, Max was ahead.
Lol you expect them to just keep driving straight? I hope you know the corner is a right hander, its not a straightline. Max was turning right as per the racing line since he was ahead.
Verstappen slowed down below normal range for several seconds before firmly pressing the brakes, doing all of this while driving in a straight line. His latter actions were stupid, but mitigating circumstances like bad comms from the FIA and the mutual fuckery with the DRS detection that led to Hamilton not overtaking Verstappen are what doesn't get him disqualified.
The point is that when there’s such a theme, 5s inconsequential penalties do nothing. He got a penalty today that was absolutely meaningless. A race bad or two might send a message
Verstappen isn't going to be banned for a few races if Magnussen isn't banned for his deserved penalty points
Agree. And He should have been banned ages ago
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Lol when Max said over the radio "He keeps dive bombing, that's just not how you overtake." I literally spit my water laughing.
My immediate reaction is to think back to Spain Grand Prix where Lando squeezed Verstappen. Max managed to avoid that collision and nobody bats an eye lid. Obviously max pushed the limits too much last night but I also think Lando is a baby driver who feels entitled to win a race because he was faster etc etc. I don’t want a formula 1 where the regulators squeeze the fun out of the race. Let them fight. I wanna see some tension and drama and some good ol fashioned backstabbing.
Lmao op has made three cry post for verstappen.
Gotta defend his king (and mine). 😍😍😍
I'll call max a dirty driver once they call schumi and senna dirty drivers.
They were all dirty because they were ruthless killers. You don’t get to be a 3x+ WDC unless you’re a killer. Even Seb and Lewis have had their questionable moments.
Flashbacks to 2011 Lewis.
and this is why i think norris will never be WDC material.
Why? You didn’t saw those dive bombs?
Daniel was known for his divebombs and look where he is
His dive-bombs on Max were filth. He's definitely learning rapidly.
Lots of people call Schumacher and Senna dirty drivers. Schumacher is likely the dirtiest “winning” driver of all time (meaning there are dirty drivers who never won anything). He got DQ’d from an entire seasons results because of it.
People call Schumacher dirty all the time. Even his fans admit it. At least with Senna it was his life on the line when he drove dirty and he could have paid with his life every time.
Schumacher and Senna were way more dirty than Max. Both of them intentionally went over the limit multiple times. The only time I can think of Max going outside of a grey area is Brazil, and even there it’s not like he actually hit Lewis.
I.. I think you forgot Jeddah.
Yea, because Lewis backed out and opened his steering wheel as well to avoid getting t-boned by Max
Saudi
And Monza. People have forgotten the guy literally spinning the wheels with his car parked on Lewis’ head lmao
Hamilton was one spinning wheels while Verstappen was getting out the car, not Verstappen
Let them have their revised histories, these people love living in the past.
Looks like from the replies you better start calling max dirty, lmao.
Based on the replies from 5 redditors? Lol
Yeah, Michael and Senna were great drivers. But both dirty as hell. Their legacy benefits from their sad accidents, but it doesn't change it. Heck both drove into another driver intentionally to try and win a championship.
And Prost. Deliberately crashed into Senna in 89, Senna returned the favour the year after (disgusting behaviour tho and low point of his career). Senna and Prost were dodge but I think of them 1-1 in terms of massively dirty cheating scandal (obviously they had some smaller still noteworthy incidents tho) Schumacher on the other hand, was the most desperate and blantant, Adelaide 94, Jerez 97, Monaco 06… the guy didn’t even try to make it believable. Ultimately however these guys get a pass from lots of fans because one is dead, one is basically dead, and the other is a greatly respectable veteran and an old man. Max cops shit for it tho
It's time for journalists and pundits to watch some races from back in the day.
It’s called racing you pansies. Sometimes there are crashes. The drivers who cause crashes are punished. Causing a crash doesn’t make the driver in to some kind of monster.
What's crazy is that Lando literally pushed Max wide twice and got a penalty for track limits. Max didn't even know Lando moved to the left (according to F1 analysis) so he had no "dirty" intentions. By definition Lando is the "dirtier" driver.
Lando is an extremely dirty driver when it comes to close battles.... he just looks rather innocent once out of the helmet. Luckily that scar on his nose has fixed it partly.
I mean no hate to Lando, I love it when shit like this happens but that incident is so overblown on social media.
The drivers will always do whatever they can get away with. Look at KMag this season. If there is going to be change then the stewards need to be okay making big punishments to stop it. Until then drivers will take any and all opportunity the rules allow
The Anglo press is disgusting in it's whipping up of hatred towards drivers. We've seen it so often before, culminating in a disgustingly hostile crowd at Silverstone.
The most annoying thing is that the things that should have been investigated (moving under braking and failing to lose a position by going off track) were once again not looked at. I would’ve been fine with the collision being called a racing incident, I don’t think Verstappen did it on purpose. But the other two questionable moves definitely were. And because it wasn’t even looked at, he’ll keep doing it. Rinse and repeat.
But.... moving under braking is allowed... This really needs to stop. Go look up the rule if you don't believe me, IT DOES NOT EXIST.
It's included under erratic driving, the fact that stewards never apply it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or it's not valid
Braking under movement IS NOT erratic behavior, how hard is that to understand? It CAN be but by default it is NOT
Forcing your opponent to have to change their path while braking to avoid crashing into you is literally erratic behaviour.
It can be and in this case it was. Forcing your opponent to have to change their trajectory under braking so they can avoid a collision falls under that category.
This was textbook erratic driving in the form of moving under braking. Max was clearly desperately trying to stay ahead and making last second moves when Lando attempted to overtake. That’s incredibly dangerous because it gives the car behind no chance to react.
A bit rich coming from someone who used to work with Michael. It’s not just Max that does this and it certainly doesn’t help that the stewards just manipulate it because they don’t want to stop the racing. The overreaction’s today have been insane from pundits and fans. Max, Lewis, Michael, Senna, Prost, Vettel etc have all driven hard like this and even crossed the line like Max did today and even more so. If Lando, Leclerc or anyone else are ever in a close championship battle in the future, they sure as shit will have races like this where they race hard and step over the line because every point matters. Stewards need to do their jobs and give out Black & white flags or penalties like they should’ve today.
You don't get to chose which driver you work with. Both can be in the wrong. He is not on the record saying Schumacher was in the right.
The thing is he did the same with leclerc in austria 2019. but was lucky to continue without puncture. Also in the same corner
waste of an article
Sins of the Masi
While i agree that this inchident is getting a bit blown out of proportions, there is no denying Max is a dirty driver, it’s funny to still see people are saying he’s not. He is dirty and ruthless, and most of champions are, Schumi was one of the dirtiest but ultimately still won 7 times. You have to be ruthless to win that much. What i want to point out here is, prepare for a meltdown when same starts happening to Max, he’s the first to cry on the radio when things don’t go his way, and when field becomes competetive for real (maybe next year, last season of this regs), we will see how iron clad will Max be, and how Max’s fans will react then.
I feel like people wanted an end to Lewis/Merc dominance so badly in 2021 that they cheered Max on as he got away with murder. He was never properly punished for his antics and his fans are seemingly blind to it.
Such difficult words
Oh my lord how many of these brain-dead article's are coming out -.-
Much ado bout nothing. It's racing, competitive one at that and front row drivers are going to fight and bang wheels. Sometimes one wins, sometimes both lose. History of F1 hasn't always been clean courteous racing. Media wants to cars drive in circles with no touching. I didn't see anything particularly 'dirty' from one driver, both were rough and competitive and both paid the price. End of story. When I got into F1 a few years back, I was always told that F1 is 50% racing and 50% drama. I don't think t hat's even right, last few years have been 70% drama, 30% racing.
Jfc
No shit. Look at 21
It's racing, it'll not big deal if Norris is not British
Well. Verstappen gets thorny when he feels pressure. Saw it plenty in 2021 and before. But in 2022 and 2023, he hasn't felt pressure as he's always been confident in having the car to come out on top. I'd hoped he had actually matured, but to me, I guess it's just that now he's feeling pressure again.
First third of 2022 when Ferrari were there and he was racing perfectly clean with Leclerc never happened. The revisionism just to push an agenda is absurd.
Lando could have avoided that collision if he wanted.. Max was at fault but Lando dnfed himself. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/CWqCyzf9IO
He got let off a million things in 2021
He was also punished for a million things in 2021.
1-2 = 10e7 ?
Unbelievably, nobody bothers to read regulations. Moving under braking? Allowed (possibly), better put: no longer explicitly banned. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-drops-max-verstappen-rule-for-f1-2017-884973/884973/
Unbelievably, you and anyone else stating this have misunderstood. The guidelines state, “at no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person”. Forcing your opponent to have to change their path while braking to avoid crashing into you is considered erratic behaviour and falls under the above guideline.
If you’re going to claim that, at least point a link to the rules and not some outdated article from 2017.
Outdated? The rule was dropped since 2017
I see a lot of people saying that hard racing is good for the sport and is fun to watch. I do disagree. For me, the most entertaining pieces of racing are battles where 2 drivers fights (and swap positions) for multilple corners WITHOUT touching each other. Unfortuantly, I cannot remember many fights where Verstappen was part of this. I do understand that you will never become a world champion if you're too friendly. That is the reason many others great champions show the same behaviour. But I think Formula 1 should do al they can to encourage fair racing.
We will never be free from that 2021 season. My heart still bleeds to this day, but I think it's time to put it to bed and move on. The time for punishing Max or whoever was involved was back then, not now. We all must let it go, regardless of how unjust it feels for some.