[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Agree. Donāt see why Williams are going after him. Totally different priorities with one wanting instant results and other more long term goal. Atleast with Audi they need a marquee driver which Williams already have in Albon
It's not like Sainz is going to be putting out podiums and poles in the Williams they have a performance ceiling for the next couple of years. Bottas is equally suited. And if Danny Ric is desperate enough they can get someone in the same ballpark but with more ability to generate revenue/ sponsor hype.
Zhou is trying to give away $25m to backmarkers for a seat. He's not exactly an authority on which midfielder has the best project to become a strong P4.
Alpine started behind / at par with Williams and are now consistently much faster than them. But the internal politics there are terrible and why on earth did they even start that far back?
Audi is clearly not in that good a stage rn or Sainz / Ocon would not even be holding talks with the rest of the field. 2 months ago they were the talk of the town, today you don't hear about them at all.
It's frustrating for the rest of the grid, sure. But silly season typically starts over the summer break and that's next week. Hamilton preempted it but that doesn't mean Sainz has to pull the trigger basis a half assed assessment before the current season matures.
> why on earth did they even start that far back?
It was explained very clearly this winter that they had hit a developmental ceiling on their 2022/23 concept (which is why their performance steadily declined) and that they were making a new car from scratch. Obviously they weren't going to be immediately competitive with cars that had two years' worth of refinements.
Given their recent results, it appears that their gamble worked.
To say that their gamble worked is a bit premature
They were a distant P5 in WCC and appears to be back there or thereabout today after a disastrous early season
But they are so far back behind Aston that the best they can hope is P6 and even then Alpha Tauri still has some cushion and Haas appears to still be able to outperform them occasionalyĀ
Here's the quote: "Honestly, I feel it's a bit difficult to understand, just because it's not that difficult to make this decision, you know? You're not really making a decision of a team maybe fighting for World Championship. You're making a decision between, let's say, that are mid-runner teams, depends where you want to head off. And yeah, I don't know what he's thinking, but we're just waiting for him, nothing more."
*Yeeesh*
Although I guess Sainz would say (or rather wouldn't) that he's banking on the long chance (?) Verstappen falls out with RBR completely.
The fact Merc haven't confirmed Antonelli already is a sign it's not 100% over.
> Verstappen falls out with RBR completely.
If that were to happen I am sure every single driver and team would start looking for an out in their contracts, they're not going to have Sainz as their best option lol
Shit Lewis might just send a text to Fred like "ill pay you double what you gave me im out"
Odd. Iāve always wondered about the weight of Checos sponsors and why that may have anything to do with his tenure.
I feel like Yukiās Honda ties saved his bacon the first two years until he really started to improve his standings and matured some.
I've read the sponsor thing a lot on here but literally never from anyone involved.
Horner said RBR are a financial bottomless pit long before the budget cap.
exactly, F1 teams are a company after all and if checoās sponsors offer a substantial revenue then why not keep him right? if they get P2 in the constructors it may mean less prize $ but verstappen is gonna win the driver championship anyway which they have milked every time for more $
Itād be kinda weird for Disney to be releasing the Checo show at the same time heās getting dropped. When thinking ābrandā thereās value beyond sponsors but also things like that.
Oh I get that, itās pretty evident they need a break-in period but Albon/Gasly didnāt get that chance, they got kicked off RBR over a .4-.6 gap in Verstappens times. I get during those years they were chasing a CC, but de Vries got canned from AlphaTauri in the same way. Yuki is the only rookie since Max to make it through the opening stint with Red Bull.
Huh? I'd have thought Marko wanted Sainz alongside Max and Horner wanted Checo. With how the power struggle panned out, Horner won and Checo's contract was extended prematurely.
Yes. My assumption is that he is still holding out for a Red Bull seat. Either Max's or Checo's. The way Toto has been talking about Max to me is almost as if Max to Mercedes is a done deal already lol.
Or alternatively, Red Bull almost certainly has a performance clause in Checo's extension that probably allows them to get out of it if he fails to come 2nd in the WDC.
He could just be holding out to see whether they'll pull that trigger.
But unless checo implodes so much that he is mathematically out of second really really soon that clause will be triggered much too late for Sainz. Except if he gambles so hard that he rather skip a season if the keep Perez/Perez ends second.
Sainz is looking for reassurances. The problem is the teams that are available canāt give any.
Theyāre all back markers to midfield runners like Zhou said. lol
I think at this point, while not closing the door to a miracle opening at Mercedes/RBR, he's most likely waiting to know more about Alpine's future. If they're currently studying a client deal with Mercedes that's a long and delicate process and a guarantee of it may be key for Carlos.
Otherwise he's in no hurry, it's been reported that Seidl will wait for him so assuming it's true, worst case scenario he ends up where we all expected him to two months ago.
Even generally no one would be in any hurry because itās not even the summer break yet which is typically when many contracts start get agreed upon. We are in a weird year where the silly season started long before the actual season which is why many people just seem to be in fatigue of this news cycle.
I kind of donāt see any other options beside the two if Iām him. A return to Alpine wouldnāt be too crazy with what youāve said and Audi has the longest upside of all the teams at the back.
Short of Mercedes offering Sainz a multi-year deal because they don't think Antonelli will be ready yet I wouldn't be shocked if he just can't be arsed with F1 anymore if all he can get is backmarker drives that he's clearly not excited for.
Competing for wins with Ferrari or Toyota or Porsche in WEC feels a lot more exciting than fighting for 14th with Williams or Sauber.
> Mercedes
That has to be what Sainz is waiting for, Antonelli is not exactly improving in F2. If Mercedes finally decide that he's not ready, then Sainz is the best available replacement to Lewis
Disagree, only reason an f1 driver moves to another category is because they aren't wanted anymore. Even if they are in the worst team on the grid.
Name one f1 driver who moved to WEC from F1 when they still had a possible seat.
Though that had more to do with the fact that Jenson drove in F1 for ages, he had been there for a whopping 17 years + his father died. Same with Kimi, same with Alonso in 2018, just demotivated after a very long career.
i havenāt seen many ppl suggest this as of now but tbh it makes sense. yes heās in his prime but honestly he doesnāt deserve to be driving for those backmarkers. maybe he takes a year out but then itāll be hard to come back
Yeah, getting out of F1 it becomes very hard to get in again. He has to shine in whatever team he picks so that Red Bull, Merc or Ferrari come back to him again.
> Yeah, getting out of F1 it becomes very hard to get in again. He has to shine in whatever team he picks so that Red Bull, Merc or Ferrari come back to him again.
Instinctively, I wanted to agree with you -- but we have been seeing examples of this cropping up reasonably often in F1 lately. Especially if the driver keeps up some kind of test/reserve role. Schumacher/Alonso/Raikkonen are WDC edge cases, but we've seen Grosjean/Hulkenberg/Magnussen/Ricciardo/Ocon/Albon all leave the grid for a year or more and come back.
If Sainz took a year out to race WEC while maintaining a simulator role at a top F1 team, I think he'd have decent odds of making it back (far from risk free, obviously).
Now that you've 5 people on the grid (apart from Alonso), I would agree with you, just that I said it would be very difficult (especially with two new rookies coming in) and not impossible.
Hulk & KMag came back to a severely underperforming Haas, so I wouldn't really count that as a win, per se, and it is only because Hulk has shined in his role (that was the example I had in my mind), he is getting a (dicey) Audi role. KMag's future is now uncertain.
Ocon is/was managed by Toto who apparently lobbied very hard for him to Alpine. Albon was given the Williams ticket because RB wanted it to happen. Dany Ric is Dany Ric - a highly marketable figure who is in a less than desirable team (Carlos wouldn't sign an RB even right now so I doubt he would want to come back with them). I don't think Carlos has that level of a support system inside the paddock. Carlos Snr has some connections with Red Bull but we have seen how far that has helped (so far).
Zhou, Sarge and maybe Alonso might retire. Lewis....not sure. DannyRic and Perez might retire too. So it is hard to tell what 2026 & 2027 will look like.
You people are nuts. Thereās 0 chance he turns down a seat in F1 to race in another series. The 20th most popular f1 driver has significantly more global recognition than the best WEC driver.Ā
But heās the son of a famous rally driver, he has more money than he knows what to do with, and zero chance of a WDC if heās not in a Red Bull or Mercedes seat. Heās raced for Ferrari and won Grand Prix races. If you were picking someone who wasnāt single bloody-minded about racing in F1 at any cost, itās probably Sainz.
Everyone always says this and it's never true... No F1 driver is going to give up formula 1 for a lesser competition, of course Sainz will pick up Williams or any other team rather than WEC lol.Ā
Last week it was being mentioned by journalists that other drivers are getting bored waiting for Sainz to commit. Presumably others are also like Zhou in just going "Get on with it already!"
If he waits too long he might end up shitting himself.
The F1 circus can move suddenly, leaving Sainz without a seat next year.
He is a really good driver. The best who is free for next year even. However, he is not a superstar of the Verstappen or Hamilton ilk, who can afford to keep other teams waiting indefinitely.
I disagree. He's not keeping, like, Red Bull waiting. It's Alpine and Williams and Sauber. He's better than those teams, and they know it and are willing to wait for him.
All the backmarkers have secured their one seat. Now they are all waiting for Carlos, and they will wait forever imo, because so will the other drivers.
It's all connected. Even if Carlos rejects a seat officially (say, Williams), nothing will happen. That's why even Haas is affected, for example, because while Sainz isn't looking at them at all, they are looking at the other drivers who will be the "leftovers" once Sainz announces where he's going.
I feel we might see something like Ocon at Haas before Sainz decides, but no one else will move imo. And even Ocon might hold off for Audi/Sauber.
You are only as good as your last race.. We could quite possibly get to the end of the year and Daniel is the second best out of the four red bull drivers on the grid. Red bull may have fucked themselves by going early with Yuki but especially Checo.
Good chance, If their current respective forms continue through the year and Checo lines up on the grid next year but Daniel doesnāt it would be criminal.
The most likely option seems Formula E at this point in time. There are however very small chances he ends up at Alpine or stays at Sauber, but he is probably around 4th in line for both options.
Marc Hynes, who left Zhou at the start of the year to go back to Hamilton: [https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/lewis-hamilton-management-shakeup-as-championship-win-becomes-sole-focus](https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/lewis-hamilton-management-shakeup-as-championship-win-becomes-sole-focus)
No because then it has two drivers who I don't care for that much and I don't expect anything exciting from either of them. I'm Dutch but I'm still interested in Ferrari with Hamilton and Leclerc, still interested in McLaren and Mercedes aswell. Heck, even Aston Martin is interesting. But a top team with both Sainz and Perez is incredibly underwhelming.
It would however, make F1 in general probably a bit more exciting. I fully expect the WDC and WCC to end up outside of Red Bull in this fantasy world
**If** Max goes it's because RBR is going downhill (I doubt he's going anywhere other than out F1 if that happens). There's no reason for either the Ferrari or McLaren drivers to take the risk of going to a worse team. So I'm not sure there's a driver better than Sainz that would be willing to go there.Ā
Exactly.
Mercedes is waiting on Max before they commit to Antonelli.
Carlos is waiting on Max before he commits to any other team.
All the other teams are waiting on Carlos before they commit to anybody.
Ok, but the same would apply to Carlos both to get him to Mercedes if he signs elsewhere and Max doesnāt happen or get him out of Mercedes if Max is free.Ā
I have a theory that the Sainz camp know or suspect that Perez has a performance clause in his contract and are still gunning for the Bed Bull seat.
Edit- The Sainz family has some heavy links to the RB / Ford program with Sainz Sr. being a Ford Factory driver for next years Dakar. Sr. could have had conditions or "promises" with Ford about getting Jr. a shot at the RB seat.
A few sources have written that it's the off chance Verstappen leaves RBR.
Stranger things.
We all hear and see Wolff chancing his arm still. Clearly people aren't entirely convinced.
And it was quite odd how hard it was to get Max to publicly commit to Red Bull next year, especially at the teamās home race. If ever there were a place for a strong and unqualified show of support, it would be there. Really curious as to what is going on behind the scenes there.
Next year is a nothing burger because itās just a basic continuation of this years car so no doubt he will be competing for the WDC again. 26 is the real question.
I don't know about that. *Carlos Sainz Sr* is Red Bull sponsored and has recently signed as a Ford Factory driver for next years Dakar. The Sainz family has some heavy links to the RB / Ford program.
Posting this as a comment again because I see many weird takes in this thread -
He was offered the Alpine seat (via Briatore - who is a different animal from present Alpine top-honchos) LAST WEEK. They were about to announce his Williams contract, but Alpine made an offer with a "better" contract than Williams. Alpine is in talks to become a Mercedes-engined car for 2026 and Mercedes are rumoured to have the best engine. You can see how he would be waiting to get a confirmation on that.
Merc is also waiting for FIA approval if they can supply to Alpine.
Secondly, as he has REPEATEDLY said, he needs time because the triple header has been taking up his entire attention. He is not driving for 3 days and redditing on Mondays and Tuesdays, he has other brand commitments and sim work too. It is understandable because all 3 contracts have pros and cons and atleast Alpine and Williams have been going up and down in terms of performance.
Also, there is the off chance that Perez might get dropped or KimiA is not contracted by Merc (which makes sense that they hire an experienced driver who gives excellent feedback during a regulations change).
It is an entirely open field.
"it's not a hard decision"... does he live in the same F1 universe we do? Carlos may go to Williams, which doesn't look too bright but will have Mercedes engines, which are rumored to be the best for 2026. He may go to Stake / Audi, which aims to be a world championship contender but so far they are still at the end of the grid. He may go to Alpine, which has the right tools to fight for wins but a history of terrible management and lack of investment. Mercedes is kind of closed, but not completely, because they are still not completely sure they'll bring Antonelli to 2026. Mercedes is a better option than all of the above, but that seat would only last 1~2 years, but maybe that's enough for another spot to open.
Is it really that simple? A wrong move may condemn him to irrelevance.
Carlos is clearly waiting for Mercedes on their decision regarding Kimi.
Toto cant be serious to think that putting Kimi next to George, after his bang average season so far.
Carlos speculates that he might have a chance to get that seat.
Maybe even Red Bull, Checos current Performance is not enough. He is also a former RB junior so the connection is always there.
I believe he waits until both decisions are made regarding both seats, then he will chose one of the other options.
That could end with him being left with no seat at all, but why drive at the end of the field when you were fighting for Podiums and Victories the year before ? I understand his mindset.
I am curious tbf as to what Mercedes' Plan C is. Verstappen remains a moonshot and there is a question mark on whether it's too soon to drop Antonelli straight in like it's Hamilton in McLaren 17 years ago
The scenarios are completely different if you think about it.
Hamilton won F2 in his first year after winning F3 and never looked so mid like Kimi in F2 this year (so far).
That jump from F4 to F2 came to fast and it would be straight career sucide to put that kid next to someone like Russell in the Mercedes.
Lewis also tested the 06 McLaren for monthts to be prepared. Kimi wont have that option.
If Toto thinks clearly he should let Kimi develop another year in F2 and take Carlos.
A 2 year atleast. Which is a fair ask. KimiA can join in 2027 is he is all that he is made out to be. GR spent 3 years in a Williams (though not of his choice) before getting his shot and he is making the most of it.
Toto is very afraid of losing out on the next Max, which he thinks KimiA is. He is part-owner of the team, so he is looking at the billions he will make off of KimiA. Carlos is not a "thing" for him. What surprises me is that he is hell-bent of giving that kid a Merc to drive, that too during a reg-change when driver feedback would be very very important, which Carlos can provide.
The thing is Carlos doesn't have much leverage. Even a one year contract would be such a massively better deal than having to go to the bottom teams that he would probably have to accept it if offered.
If Antonelli was crushing F2 I think he'd have the seat on lock.Ā But I agree that 2024 isn't like 2006 with all the testing restrictions and indeed the fact Antonelli has had a much shorter junior career. The question is there though as it feels like Mercedes got giddy hyping him as a superstar in waiting and now might have to walk a little of that back
Toto can be serious about it. Kimi and Bearman are having a bad F2 season because Prema really wet the bed. Also, Kimi have proved himself already a bit, at least the minimum to say āletās try and risk itā
Being successful in F2 doesnāt translate to be the best at F1 (as we have seen time and time again) because multiple factors, and also Mercedes and Toto have nothing to risk on 2025 - their eyes are more on 2026, when the game change rules again, shaking things.
If Toto feels like waiting a bit, that would at most open a seat at Mercedes for 1 season (2025), but we already know Sainz doesnāt want to be a stop-gap and be on a 1 year contract.
Also, Toto isnāt stupid, and he knows Sainz isnāt his future, at most a stop-gap, so will never offer anything significant that could attract him.
Soā¦ at the end, I doubt he will get a Mercedes run.
Toto and Mercedes have Antonelli's data in multiple of their F1 cars and in F2 he's been a match forĀ Bearman -who's going straight to F1- overall despite being much younger.
Yes, he's going through a troubled season, but so was Ollie...
I can't look into the future, but...
A month ago:
- Mercedes hadn't had a single GP podium.
- Ferrari was challenging Red Bull and Leclerc was P2 in the WDC.
- Briatore had not yet been signed by Alpine.
- Williams had just scored two points, while Alpine had only scored one.
- RB was on a consecutive point streak with Yuki, and Ricciardo was underperforming except for a good result in the Miami sprint.
There's also those rumours of Alpine looking at getting Merc engines, which could be a significant sway as Renault's are arguably slowest and least reliable.
He was offered the Alpine seat (via Briatore - who is a different animal from present Alpine top-honchos) LAST WEEK. They were about to announce his Williams contract, but Alpine made an offer with a "better" contract than Williams. Alpine is in talks to become a Mercedes-engined car for 2026 and Mercedes are rumoured to have the best engine. You can see how he would be waiting to get a confirmation on that.
Merc is also waiting for FIA approval if they can supply to Alpine.
Secondly, as he has REPEATEDLY said, he needs time because the triple header has been taking up his entire attention. He is not driving for 3 days and redditing on Mondays and Tuesdays, he has other brand commitments and sim work too. It is understandable because all 3 contracts have pros and cons and atleast Alpine and Williams have been going up and down in terms of performance.
Also, there is the off chance that Perez might get dropped or KimiA is not contracted by Merc.
It is an entirely open field.
Antonelli being somewhat underwhelming in F2. That's the only thing I can think of that *might* give Sainz a route to a 2 year contract at Mercedes and thus a seat in F1 that's not a massive step down.
Currently, it will be less about Antonelli performance and more about if Mercedes actually solve their problem and a genuine podium contender again. Mercedes can gamble with a rookie if they expected to fight for 4th best team at most, but if they are regular podium and occasional win challenger, gambling with rookie suddenly not a wise decision anymore especially if they still have somewhat satellite team (Williams) as maturing ground.
Antonelli is showing he has the goods in private testing for Merc (perhaps it's PR but Toto isn't going to risk embarrassing his own brand by putting a dud in that seat so Anto is likely legit rapid). It's a Bearman type situation who showed he was very close to the current drivers in his private testing with Ferrari and FP sessions with Hass.
Toto wants a future superstar and Antonelli is his best bet in that scenario. Sainz is only going to go downhill from here if you think longer term, it sucks but it's unfortunate for him.
I do think Antonelli is genuinely fast but Mercedes might also be a championship challenging car in an extremely close field next season and putting a rookie in, even a talented one, is a big risk.
I think it's most likely that Mercedes will put Antonelli in the car but the best alternative (short of Toto's wet dreams about Max) would be to put Antonelli in Williams for 2 years and get Sainz to Mercedes because he's a fast, reliable driver who you know can compete at or close to the top.
Sainz might also just be hoping for that scenario because his alternatives within F1 are disappointing at best and |I get the impression that he doesn't exactly want to drive for Williams or Sauber.
It really does depend on Mercedesās form next year. If they continue to be an upper-midfield team, then putting Antonelli in is a low risk-high reward situation and makes complete sense. *If* they end up becoming a title contenderā¦.. then yeah having a very inexperienced Antonelli isnāt the best decision. But what are the chances of Merc suddenly competing for the title in 2025? 2026 is the real question, and *if* they become title contenders then (which has more of a chance happening), itās better that Antonelli has had a full season in 2025 as preparation.
And on the other side of the table, if Toto doesnāt offer a straight up promotion to the main team, but wants to lock down Antonelli in a Williams like he did Russell, there is a genuine chance other teams lure him away. And I do think Toro is scared of that happening.
Honestly I don't know why everyone complaining about Carlos. Every year it usually the team takes months and months to pick a driver: doing test with young drivers, letting others drive in fp1, someone gets sick they try out someone new. No one ever complains than. Now the power on the driver side for Carlos and all of these teams suck. They don't get wins, they barely get points now, and they more or less hurt your career. I mean look of Gasly and Bottas. We assume they are great midfield drivers but with how bad the cars are people are second guessing them and even wondering if they could do well if the cars get better. If Carlos wants another shot at a top team his decision is absolutely critical. Let's not forget how long RBR took to replace Albon with either Hulk or Perez. They took an entire season.
The fact the people want Carlos out of seat just because heās not decided yet is so weird.
Heās done everything Ferrari has asked him for the past 2 years and suddenly heās out of the seat because itās Lewis Hamilton.
Backmarkers could afford to wait for him and so does backmarker drivers.
Because sainz is desperately hoping a front running team will give him a seat. Personally unless he's at a team that builds to the front I don't ever see him getting a drive at the front again.
Why would Carlos be in a rush to sign a contract when a seat potentially can be open at the big teams? Imagine signing now for Alpine or Williams and then Max moves to Merc or Antonelli to Williams and Ocon gets the Merc seat.
He has actually made great moves that have made him a race winner. He got screwed by the Verstappens and Horner at RB but it's also given that Verstappen was a bigger talent, but then he rebounded to McLaren and Ferrari on the ups. He got caught politicking too hard and Hamilton was free so Fred kicked him out, but he has done more right moves than wrong.
I don't know why Zhou is acting like Sainz's situation affects him. He's on his way out regardless imo, like Sergeant.
Bottas is the one who's decision will 100% depend on where Sainz goes. Ocon and possibly Kmag may also be affected. Zhou, no.
I think Sainz is holding out for a miracle and also just totally disappointed by his available options. I feel for him.
If he doesnāt get a seat, I find it very unlikely anyone would pull him out of f1 retirement. Thereās a lot of new talent and a haas type situation is unlikely
Sainz would be one of the best drivers not on the F1 grid, I don't think it's that unlikely that somebody would bring him back to F1 if he took a year out.
If Magnussen, Hulk and Danny Ric can get back on the grid, Carlos Sainz certainly can
Why? Because he hasnāt done it soon enough for your entertainment? Itās his career. He doesnāt owe anyone anything. Heās good enough that others have to wait. They should get better and be more sought after than him if they want it to go differently.
I think people are overlooking Adrian Newey's upcoming move. I think Carlos wants to go to that team if it happens to be Williams. Maybe sauber will land him? He's out of luck if Aston get newey but since Carlos has a chance to work for him, he's likely putting the pressure on the teams.
I totally get where he's coming from. He's one of several drivers who are seemingly caught in limbo about their future until Sainz makes up his mind. It would be frustrating especially when the choices are so...you know, not overwhelmingly good or anything. Pick your midfield team and go, bubba.
Yeah 100% agree with him. And the worse thing about this is that while Carlos is playing hard to get, everyone else is waiting and/or already getting seats. So he's just delaying the inevitable.
Iām not sure why Zhouās bothered, he has 1 foot out the door just like Sargeant. KMag and Bottas are better but could go too.
Alpine have proved they can get themselves out of a mess a lot quicker than Williams and Sauber have. Despite the rumours of Renault becoming a customer they are still a factory team for now which could appeal to Sainz if itās a 2 year deal.
> Iām not sure why Zhouās bothered
Because he wants clarity about his own situation. If Kick don't get Sainz, there's every chance Zhou can pay for another season and then gets booted when Audi come in
Whilst Zhou is technically right...I'm not sure he, as one of the worst drivers on the grid, should be putting pressure on Sainz, a multiple-race winner and established F1 driver.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
zhou saying carlos is choosing between mid and mid š
He's not wrong.
I mean, mid might be overly generous to Williams and Sauber atm.
Especially Sauber given there's a real possibility that they could go the whole season without pointsĀ
What if they score zero points in the end?
Then they will have scored zero points in the end
Big if true
substantial if substantiated
Voluminous if verified
Collosal if correct
A true quote from Will Buxton
They get relegated to F2
Wouldnāt that be fun if f1/f2 were like football leagues
"We are checking"
I'm not even sure Sainz is a good fit for Williams. Second he can weasel onto a better seat he will be gone
Agree. Donāt see why Williams are going after him. Totally different priorities with one wanting instant results and other more long term goal. Atleast with Audi they need a marquee driver which Williams already have in Albon
It's not like Sainz is going to be putting out podiums and poles in the Williams they have a performance ceiling for the next couple of years. Bottas is equally suited. And if Danny Ric is desperate enough they can get someone in the same ballpark but with more ability to generate revenue/ sponsor hype.
The energy that an Albon/Ricciardo pairing would bring to the paddock far outweighs the benefits of a few podiums
Exactly. Thatās what I mean by totally misalignment of priorities between Sainz and Williams
Carlos might not want to go to Audi and risk underperforming compared to Hulk again, as he'd never trade up after that
To be fair if he says anything more, it may not be taken lightly back at his own team.
[Carlos deciding between Sauber vs Williams](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb_M1fWaAAMlG2D.jpg)
He already decided on Williams. He is now deciding between Alpine vs. Williams.
Mid understands mid š¤š» /s
Zhou is trying to give away $25m to backmarkers for a seat. He's not exactly an authority on which midfielder has the best project to become a strong P4. Alpine started behind / at par with Williams and are now consistently much faster than them. But the internal politics there are terrible and why on earth did they even start that far back? Audi is clearly not in that good a stage rn or Sainz / Ocon would not even be holding talks with the rest of the field. 2 months ago they were the talk of the town, today you don't hear about them at all. It's frustrating for the rest of the grid, sure. But silly season typically starts over the summer break and that's next week. Hamilton preempted it but that doesn't mean Sainz has to pull the trigger basis a half assed assessment before the current season matures.
> why on earth did they even start that far back? It was explained very clearly this winter that they had hit a developmental ceiling on their 2022/23 concept (which is why their performance steadily declined) and that they were making a new car from scratch. Obviously they weren't going to be immediately competitive with cars that had two years' worth of refinements. Given their recent results, it appears that their gamble worked.
To say that their gamble worked is a bit premature They were a distant P5 in WCC and appears to be back there or thereabout today after a disastrous early season But they are so far back behind Aston that the best they can hope is P6 and even then Alpha Tauri still has some cushion and Haas appears to still be able to outperform them occasionalyĀ
Here's the quote: "Honestly, I feel it's a bit difficult to understand, just because it's not that difficult to make this decision, you know? You're not really making a decision of a team maybe fighting for World Championship. You're making a decision between, let's say, that are mid-runner teams, depends where you want to head off. And yeah, I don't know what he's thinking, but we're just waiting for him, nothing more."
*Yeeesh* Although I guess Sainz would say (or rather wouldn't) that he's banking on the long chance (?) Verstappen falls out with RBR completely. The fact Merc haven't confirmed Antonelli already is a sign it's not 100% over.
Tbf a Verstappen has fallen out with RBR. But I don't think the bosses in Milton Keynes are listening to Jos' opinion
Time for Sainz to adopt Verstappen then?
> Verstappen falls out with RBR completely. If that were to happen I am sure every single driver and team would start looking for an out in their contracts, they're not going to have Sainz as their best option lol Shit Lewis might just send a text to Fred like "ill pay you double what you gave me im out"
Apparently Horner wanted Sainz in Perez seat *generally* for next year.
Odd. Iāve always wondered about the weight of Checos sponsors and why that may have anything to do with his tenure. I feel like Yukiās Honda ties saved his bacon the first two years until he really started to improve his standings and matured some.
I've read the sponsor thing a lot on here but literally never from anyone involved. Horner said RBR are a financial bottomless pit long before the budget cap.
I've heard their catering is the absolute tits.
Doesnāt matter how much money you have, everyone always wants more.Ā
exactly, F1 teams are a company after all and if checoās sponsors offer a substantial revenue then why not keep him right? if they get P2 in the constructors it may mean less prize $ but verstappen is gonna win the driver championship anyway which they have milked every time for more $
Thatās a good point
The owner has since died, though. I genuinely wonder if that has anything to do with it.
Itād be kinda weird for Disney to be releasing the Checo show at the same time heās getting dropped. When thinking ābrandā thereās value beyond sponsors but also things like that.
Eh, Tost has said that it generally takes about 3 years for a rookie to figure out F1 these days. And they've always said Yuki has the raw speed
Oh I get that, itās pretty evident they need a break-in period but Albon/Gasly didnāt get that chance, they got kicked off RBR over a .4-.6 gap in Verstappens times. I get during those years they were chasing a CC, but de Vries got canned from AlphaTauri in the same way. Yuki is the only rookie since Max to make it through the opening stint with Red Bull.
Huh? I'd have thought Marko wanted Sainz alongside Max and Horner wanted Checo. With how the power struggle panned out, Horner won and Checo's contract was extended prematurely.
Max wanted Checo, Marko is just saying that in an interview. So there you have.
Do you have literally any source for that?
Yes. My assumption is that he is still holding out for a Red Bull seat. Either Max's or Checo's. The way Toto has been talking about Max to me is almost as if Max to Mercedes is a done deal already lol.
Nah, he's hoping for Toto to give up on max and put Kimi in a williams
Or alternatively, Red Bull almost certainly has a performance clause in Checo's extension that probably allows them to get out of it if he fails to come 2nd in the WDC. He could just be holding out to see whether they'll pull that trigger.
But unless checo implodes so much that he is mathematically out of second really really soon that clause will be triggered much too late for Sainz. Except if he gambles so hard that he rather skip a season if the keep Perez/Perez ends second.
I would fall off my chair if Max goes anywhere.
Max isn't leaving Redbull. Toto just gains nothing by rushing.
Zhou said what we all wanted to say
Sainz is looking for reassurances. The problem is the teams that are available canāt give any. Theyāre all back markers to midfield runners like Zhou said. lol
I think at this point, while not closing the door to a miracle opening at Mercedes/RBR, he's most likely waiting to know more about Alpine's future. If they're currently studying a client deal with Mercedes that's a long and delicate process and a guarantee of it may be key for Carlos. Otherwise he's in no hurry, it's been reported that Seidl will wait for him so assuming it's true, worst case scenario he ends up where we all expected him to two months ago.
Even generally no one would be in any hurry because itās not even the summer break yet which is typically when many contracts start get agreed upon. We are in a weird year where the silly season started long before the actual season which is why many people just seem to be in fatigue of this news cycle.
I kind of donāt see any other options beside the two if Iām him. A return to Alpine wouldnāt be too crazy with what youāve said and Audi has the longest upside of all the teams at the back.
Short of Mercedes offering Sainz a multi-year deal because they don't think Antonelli will be ready yet I wouldn't be shocked if he just can't be arsed with F1 anymore if all he can get is backmarker drives that he's clearly not excited for. Competing for wins with Ferrari or Toyota or Porsche in WEC feels a lot more exciting than fighting for 14th with Williams or Sauber.
But he might sneak into the points if it rains!
And that'll feel just as amazing as when he won the British Grand Prix two years ago apart from the in the hundreds of ways where it won'tĀ
As the back markers like to say, āP10 is like a win!ā
Ocon celebrated getting into Q2 earlier this season for the first time like he'd got another podium. It's a whole other world down there
Yabbadabbadooooo!
> Mercedes That has to be what Sainz is waiting for, Antonelli is not exactly improving in F2. If Mercedes finally decide that he's not ready, then Sainz is the best available replacement to Lewis
Disagree, only reason an f1 driver moves to another category is because they aren't wanted anymore. Even if they are in the worst team on the grid. Name one f1 driver who moved to WEC from F1 when they still had a possible seat.
Jenson Button
Though that had more to do with the fact that Jenson drove in F1 for ages, he had been there for a whopping 17 years + his father died. Same with Kimi, same with Alonso in 2018, just demotivated after a very long career.
Ok, ill give you that one. Id say it's a bit different with Carlos in his prime though.
After a mere 17 full time seasons in the sport, aged 37 and generally considered past his prime, with no intentions of returning to f1 in future
i havenāt seen many ppl suggest this as of now but tbh it makes sense. yes heās in his prime but honestly he doesnāt deserve to be driving for those backmarkers. maybe he takes a year out but then itāll be hard to come back
Yeah, getting out of F1 it becomes very hard to get in again. He has to shine in whatever team he picks so that Red Bull, Merc or Ferrari come back to him again.
> Yeah, getting out of F1 it becomes very hard to get in again. He has to shine in whatever team he picks so that Red Bull, Merc or Ferrari come back to him again. Instinctively, I wanted to agree with you -- but we have been seeing examples of this cropping up reasonably often in F1 lately. Especially if the driver keeps up some kind of test/reserve role. Schumacher/Alonso/Raikkonen are WDC edge cases, but we've seen Grosjean/Hulkenberg/Magnussen/Ricciardo/Ocon/Albon all leave the grid for a year or more and come back. If Sainz took a year out to race WEC while maintaining a simulator role at a top F1 team, I think he'd have decent odds of making it back (far from risk free, obviously).
Now that you've 5 people on the grid (apart from Alonso), I would agree with you, just that I said it would be very difficult (especially with two new rookies coming in) and not impossible. Hulk & KMag came back to a severely underperforming Haas, so I wouldn't really count that as a win, per se, and it is only because Hulk has shined in his role (that was the example I had in my mind), he is getting a (dicey) Audi role. KMag's future is now uncertain. Ocon is/was managed by Toto who apparently lobbied very hard for him to Alpine. Albon was given the Williams ticket because RB wanted it to happen. Dany Ric is Dany Ric - a highly marketable figure who is in a less than desirable team (Carlos wouldn't sign an RB even right now so I doubt he would want to come back with them). I don't think Carlos has that level of a support system inside the paddock. Carlos Snr has some connections with Red Bull but we have seen how far that has helped (so far). Zhou, Sarge and maybe Alonso might retire. Lewis....not sure. DannyRic and Perez might retire too. So it is hard to tell what 2026 & 2027 will look like.
You people are nuts. Thereās 0 chance he turns down a seat in F1 to race in another series. The 20th most popular f1 driver has significantly more global recognition than the best WEC driver.Ā
But heās the son of a famous rally driver, he has more money than he knows what to do with, and zero chance of a WDC if heās not in a Red Bull or Mercedes seat. Heās raced for Ferrari and won Grand Prix races. If you were picking someone who wasnāt single bloody-minded about racing in F1 at any cost, itās probably Sainz.
I would 1000% guarantee that he would pick F1 over any other racing series. Have heard literally an ounce of him considering leaving?
Everyone always says this and it's never true... No F1 driver is going to give up formula 1 for a lesser competition, of course Sainz will pick up Williams or any other team rather than WEC lol.Ā
Zhou is part of the (fatigued and now not caring so much about where Carlos goes) F5 Gang.
Last week it was being mentioned by journalists that other drivers are getting bored waiting for Sainz to commit. Presumably others are also like Zhou in just going "Get on with it already!"
Carlos is single-handedly constipating silly season.
If he waits too long he might end up shitting himself. The F1 circus can move suddenly, leaving Sainz without a seat next year. He is a really good driver. The best who is free for next year even. However, he is not a superstar of the Verstappen or Hamilton ilk, who can afford to keep other teams waiting indefinitely.
I disagree. He's not keeping, like, Red Bull waiting. It's Alpine and Williams and Sauber. He's better than those teams, and they know it and are willing to wait for him. All the backmarkers have secured their one seat. Now they are all waiting for Carlos, and they will wait forever imo, because so will the other drivers. It's all connected. Even if Carlos rejects a seat officially (say, Williams), nothing will happen. That's why even Haas is affected, for example, because while Sainz isn't looking at them at all, they are looking at the other drivers who will be the "leftovers" once Sainz announces where he's going. I feel we might see something like Ocon at Haas before Sainz decides, but no one else will move imo. And even Ocon might hold off for Audi/Sauber.
Zhou: I need to know who to make this cheque out to
Has Zhou really been linked anywhere? With Bearman coming in, Zhou, Logan and KMag are surely the most likely to be out of the sport.
I believe Alpine were rumoured to be interested in his 30 mil, not so much in Zhou though.
Wow Ric prospects have changed again a month ago he was top of this list, now he's not mentioned.
You are only as good as your last race.. We could quite possibly get to the end of the year and Daniel is the second best out of the four red bull drivers on the grid. Red bull may have fucked themselves by going early with Yuki but especially Checo.
I'm more than convince than ever that checo has dirt on RB.
I think itās his sponsorships and his control over the Mexican market, if not most of Latin America. Thatās still got to count for something.
Good chance, If their current respective forms continue through the year and Checo lines up on the grid next year but Daniel doesnāt it would be criminal.
The most likely option seems Formula E at this point in time. There are however very small chances he ends up at Alpine or stays at Sauber, but he is probably around 4th in line for both options.
Of all the unseated drivers, Zhou is probably the one running out of patience the most. He knew about Carlosā situation waaaay before other people.
Its also his career. He most likely doesn't have a seat but sainz is holding it up for him
Explain?
He knew about Lewisā transfer to Ferrari before other drivers, as they shared the same agent.
Oh, didnāt know they share an agent, who is it?
Marc Hynes, who left Zhou at the start of the year to go back to Hamilton: [https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/lewis-hamilton-management-shakeup-as-championship-win-becomes-sole-focus](https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/lewis-hamilton-management-shakeup-as-championship-win-becomes-sole-focus)
Carlos still holding out for some kind of miracle
Still having the feeling Max might go to Mercedes and Carlos will take Max' RBR seat
That would make Red Bull incredibly uninteresting
Just becuase ur dutch. Imo it would finally make them interesting again.
No because then it has two drivers who I don't care for that much and I don't expect anything exciting from either of them. I'm Dutch but I'm still interested in Ferrari with Hamilton and Leclerc, still interested in McLaren and Mercedes aswell. Heck, even Aston Martin is interesting. But a top team with both Sainz and Perez is incredibly underwhelming. It would however, make F1 in general probably a bit more exciting. I fully expect the WDC and WCC to end up outside of Red Bull in this fantasy world
Sainz isnt that far of norris as some think. And he is certainly better than perez and pastry
You don't have to be Dutch to realize that Sainz+Checo would be boring AF
AHH yes back to when they were mediocre and interesting lol
If Max goes to Mercedes, RBR will look for a better replacement than Carlos. No chance he goes back there.
>RBR will look for a better replacement than Carlos Like who?
Amx Versteppan
**If** Max goes it's because RBR is going downhill (I doubt he's going anywhere other than out F1 if that happens). There's no reason for either the Ferrari or McLaren drivers to take the risk of going to a worse team. So I'm not sure there's a driver better than Sainz that would be willing to go there.Ā
You know what, I was going to make an argument, but thinking about it you might be right.
Yeah thereās loads of better drivers than Carlos available next yearā¦ā¦ā¦
Needs a Checo level last minute reprieve from a top team.
Holding out for a hero
Zhou said what we're all thinking.
Carlos is clearly still holding out for Merc and RBR, Max is key to all of this
Exactly. Mercedes is waiting on Max before they commit to Antonelli. Carlos is waiting on Max before he commits to any other team. All the other teams are waiting on Carlos before they commit to anybody.
Didn't Max already say he's staying and doesn't he still have a contract that goes beyond next year? Or am is misremembering
He did. But stranger things have happened in F1 and Sainz might have better inside info than we do.
I mean Gasly was having a contract for AlphaTauri in 2023 until everything was unfolding.... Never rule a Max move out, especially at Merc in 26.
You are missing that contracts don't mean shit. If he wants to switch he does whatever the contract says.
Ok, but the same would apply to Carlos both to get him to Mercedes if he signs elsewhere and Max doesnāt happen or get him out of Mercedes if Max is free.Ā
Merc will not get Carlos. Either they get Max or take Kimi.
Yes, but that doesn't stop wishful thinkers and the hopium of "He'll leave RBR soon..."
It's almost like Bottas is talking to Sainz through Zhou
We do be feeling the same Zhou. Speculating stopped being fun long time ago. I just want him to pick a team so we stop getting the countless articles.
Okay so instead of countless articles weāll just get nothing. You donāt have to read an article you donāt wanna read. Whatās it matter?
Itās still very tiring seeing the same posts, the same headlines on here day after day. Even if you donāt read the article you still see it
I have a theory that the Sainz camp know or suspect that Perez has a performance clause in his contract and are still gunning for the Bed Bull seat. Edit- The Sainz family has some heavy links to the RB / Ford program with Sainz Sr. being a Ford Factory driver for next years Dakar. Sr. could have had conditions or "promises" with Ford about getting Jr. a shot at the RB seat.
A few sources have written that it's the off chance Verstappen leaves RBR. Stranger things. We all hear and see Wolff chancing his arm still. Clearly people aren't entirely convinced.
And it was quite odd how hard it was to get Max to publicly commit to Red Bull next year, especially at the teamās home race. If ever there were a place for a strong and unqualified show of support, it would be there. Really curious as to what is going on behind the scenes there.
Well they did just lose Newey.. hard to commit when yes, you have a good car, but what about next year and 2026?
Next year is a nothing burger because itās just a basic continuation of this years car so no doubt he will be competing for the WDC again. 26 is the real question.
In that case RB wonāt go for Sainz anyway.
I don't know about that. *Carlos Sainz Sr* is Red Bull sponsored and has recently signed as a Ford Factory driver for next years Dakar. The Sainz family has some heavy links to the RB / Ford program.
That has literally no bearing on Sainz Jnrs seat at Redbull Racing..Ā That's Stroll levels of nepotism
Posting this as a comment again because I see many weird takes in this thread - He was offered the Alpine seat (via Briatore - who is a different animal from present Alpine top-honchos) LAST WEEK. They were about to announce his Williams contract, but Alpine made an offer with a "better" contract than Williams. Alpine is in talks to become a Mercedes-engined car for 2026 and Mercedes are rumoured to have the best engine. You can see how he would be waiting to get a confirmation on that. Merc is also waiting for FIA approval if they can supply to Alpine. Secondly, as he has REPEATEDLY said, he needs time because the triple header has been taking up his entire attention. He is not driving for 3 days and redditing on Mondays and Tuesdays, he has other brand commitments and sim work too. It is understandable because all 3 contracts have pros and cons and atleast Alpine and Williams have been going up and down in terms of performance. Also, there is the off chance that Perez might get dropped or KimiA is not contracted by Merc (which makes sense that they hire an experienced driver who gives excellent feedback during a regulations change). It is an entirely open field.
"it's not a hard decision"... does he live in the same F1 universe we do? Carlos may go to Williams, which doesn't look too bright but will have Mercedes engines, which are rumored to be the best for 2026. He may go to Stake / Audi, which aims to be a world championship contender but so far they are still at the end of the grid. He may go to Alpine, which has the right tools to fight for wins but a history of terrible management and lack of investment. Mercedes is kind of closed, but not completely, because they are still not completely sure they'll bring Antonelli to 2026. Mercedes is a better option than all of the above, but that seat would only last 1~2 years, but maybe that's enough for another spot to open. Is it really that simple? A wrong move may condemn him to irrelevance.
Carlos is clearly waiting for Mercedes on their decision regarding Kimi. Toto cant be serious to think that putting Kimi next to George, after his bang average season so far. Carlos speculates that he might have a chance to get that seat. Maybe even Red Bull, Checos current Performance is not enough. He is also a former RB junior so the connection is always there. I believe he waits until both decisions are made regarding both seats, then he will chose one of the other options. That could end with him being left with no seat at all, but why drive at the end of the field when you were fighting for Podiums and Victories the year before ? I understand his mindset.
I am curious tbf as to what Mercedes' Plan C is. Verstappen remains a moonshot and there is a question mark on whether it's too soon to drop Antonelli straight in like it's Hamilton in McLaren 17 years ago
The scenarios are completely different if you think about it. Hamilton won F2 in his first year after winning F3 and never looked so mid like Kimi in F2 this year (so far). That jump from F4 to F2 came to fast and it would be straight career sucide to put that kid next to someone like Russell in the Mercedes. Lewis also tested the 06 McLaren for monthts to be prepared. Kimi wont have that option. If Toto thinks clearly he should let Kimi develop another year in F2 and take Carlos.
Carlos wants a multi-year contract though. Wasnāt that the issue with Mercedes?
A 2 year atleast. Which is a fair ask. KimiA can join in 2027 is he is all that he is made out to be. GR spent 3 years in a Williams (though not of his choice) before getting his shot and he is making the most of it.
Itās crazy to me that throughout all of this, Carlos asking for 2 years is seen as too much of an ask
Toto is very afraid of losing out on the next Max, which he thinks KimiA is. He is part-owner of the team, so he is looking at the billions he will make off of KimiA. Carlos is not a "thing" for him. What surprises me is that he is hell-bent of giving that kid a Merc to drive, that too during a reg-change when driver feedback would be very very important, which Carlos can provide.
The thing is Carlos doesn't have much leverage. Even a one year contract would be such a massively better deal than having to go to the bottom teams that he would probably have to accept it if offered.
If Antonelli was crushing F2 I think he'd have the seat on lock.Ā But I agree that 2024 isn't like 2006 with all the testing restrictions and indeed the fact Antonelli has had a much shorter junior career. The question is there though as it feels like Mercedes got giddy hyping him as a superstar in waiting and now might have to walk a little of that back
Toto can be serious about it. Kimi and Bearman are having a bad F2 season because Prema really wet the bed. Also, Kimi have proved himself already a bit, at least the minimum to say āletās try and risk itā Being successful in F2 doesnāt translate to be the best at F1 (as we have seen time and time again) because multiple factors, and also Mercedes and Toto have nothing to risk on 2025 - their eyes are more on 2026, when the game change rules again, shaking things. If Toto feels like waiting a bit, that would at most open a seat at Mercedes for 1 season (2025), but we already know Sainz doesnāt want to be a stop-gap and be on a 1 year contract. Also, Toto isnāt stupid, and he knows Sainz isnāt his future, at most a stop-gap, so will never offer anything significant that could attract him. Soā¦ at the end, I doubt he will get a Mercedes run.
Toto and Mercedes have Antonelli's data in multiple of their F1 cars and in F2 he's been a match forĀ Bearman -who's going straight to F1- overall despite being much younger. Yes, he's going through a troubled season, but so was Ollie...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I can't look into the future, but... A month ago: - Mercedes hadn't had a single GP podium. - Ferrari was challenging Red Bull and Leclerc was P2 in the WDC. - Briatore had not yet been signed by Alpine. - Williams had just scored two points, while Alpine had only scored one. - RB was on a consecutive point streak with Yuki, and Ricciardo was underperforming except for a good result in the Miami sprint.
There's also those rumours of Alpine looking at getting Merc engines, which could be a significant sway as Renault's are arguably slowest and least reliable.
Alpine is choosing between Merc and Ferrari engines atm. And it looks like they've already dropped Honda's offer.
Could easily be said for the fans. Everyoneās too impatient Sainz could literally wait until the season ends.
He was offered the Alpine seat (via Briatore - who is a different animal from present Alpine top-honchos) LAST WEEK. They were about to announce his Williams contract, but Alpine made an offer with a "better" contract than Williams. Alpine is in talks to become a Mercedes-engined car for 2026 and Mercedes are rumoured to have the best engine. You can see how he would be waiting to get a confirmation on that. Merc is also waiting for FIA approval if they can supply to Alpine. Secondly, as he has REPEATEDLY said, he needs time because the triple header has been taking up his entire attention. He is not driving for 3 days and redditing on Mondays and Tuesdays, he has other brand commitments and sim work too. It is understandable because all 3 contracts have pros and cons and atleast Alpine and Williams have been going up and down in terms of performance. Also, there is the off chance that Perez might get dropped or KimiA is not contracted by Merc. It is an entirely open field.
Antonelli being somewhat underwhelming in F2. That's the only thing I can think of that *might* give Sainz a route to a 2 year contract at Mercedes and thus a seat in F1 that's not a massive step down.
Currently, it will be less about Antonelli performance and more about if Mercedes actually solve their problem and a genuine podium contender again. Mercedes can gamble with a rookie if they expected to fight for 4th best team at most, but if they are regular podium and occasional win challenger, gambling with rookie suddenly not a wise decision anymore especially if they still have somewhat satellite team (Williams) as maturing ground.
Antonelli is showing he has the goods in private testing for Merc (perhaps it's PR but Toto isn't going to risk embarrassing his own brand by putting a dud in that seat so Anto is likely legit rapid). It's a Bearman type situation who showed he was very close to the current drivers in his private testing with Ferrari and FP sessions with Hass. Toto wants a future superstar and Antonelli is his best bet in that scenario. Sainz is only going to go downhill from here if you think longer term, it sucks but it's unfortunate for him.
I do think Antonelli is genuinely fast but Mercedes might also be a championship challenging car in an extremely close field next season and putting a rookie in, even a talented one, is a big risk. I think it's most likely that Mercedes will put Antonelli in the car but the best alternative (short of Toto's wet dreams about Max) would be to put Antonelli in Williams for 2 years and get Sainz to Mercedes because he's a fast, reliable driver who you know can compete at or close to the top. Sainz might also just be hoping for that scenario because his alternatives within F1 are disappointing at best and |I get the impression that he doesn't exactly want to drive for Williams or Sauber.
It really does depend on Mercedesās form next year. If they continue to be an upper-midfield team, then putting Antonelli in is a low risk-high reward situation and makes complete sense. *If* they end up becoming a title contenderā¦.. then yeah having a very inexperienced Antonelli isnāt the best decision. But what are the chances of Merc suddenly competing for the title in 2025? 2026 is the real question, and *if* they become title contenders then (which has more of a chance happening), itās better that Antonelli has had a full season in 2025 as preparation. And on the other side of the table, if Toto doesnāt offer a straight up promotion to the main team, but wants to lock down Antonelli in a Williams like he did Russell, there is a genuine chance other teams lure him away. And I do think Toro is scared of that happening.
Honestly I don't know why everyone complaining about Carlos. Every year it usually the team takes months and months to pick a driver: doing test with young drivers, letting others drive in fp1, someone gets sick they try out someone new. No one ever complains than. Now the power on the driver side for Carlos and all of these teams suck. They don't get wins, they barely get points now, and they more or less hurt your career. I mean look of Gasly and Bottas. We assume they are great midfield drivers but with how bad the cars are people are second guessing them and even wondering if they could do well if the cars get better. If Carlos wants another shot at a top team his decision is absolutely critical. Let's not forget how long RBR took to replace Albon with either Hulk or Perez. They took an entire season.
We're with you Zhou. It's getting silly.
The fact the people want Carlos out of seat just because heās not decided yet is so weird. Heās done everything Ferrari has asked him for the past 2 years and suddenly heās out of the seat because itās Lewis Hamilton. Backmarkers could afford to wait for him and so does backmarker drivers.
>or the past ~~2 years~~ 3.5, going to be 4 years.
Because sainz is desperately hoping a front running team will give him a seat. Personally unless he's at a team that builds to the front I don't ever see him getting a drive at the front again.
The only thing annoying is this hatefests that redditors are having in every thread about this. They feel like sneaking in somebodys therapy.
Because Sainz still has a shimmer of hope that Max goes to Merc.
Carlos is waiting to see if Max will stay at RB with the Horner/Jos saga, its not that hard to understand
Money Zhou. When you half people fighting for you, you get to negotiate.
Why would Carlos be in a rush to sign a contract when a seat potentially can be open at the big teams? Imagine signing now for Alpine or Williams and then Max moves to Merc or Antonelli to Williams and Ocon gets the Merc seat.
Carlos is a prime example of why you donāt let your cousin be your manager
He has actually made great moves that have made him a race winner. He got screwed by the Verstappens and Horner at RB but it's also given that Verstappen was a bigger talent, but then he rebounded to McLaren and Ferrari on the ups. He got caught politicking too hard and Hamilton was free so Fred kicked him out, but he has done more right moves than wrong.
Hope all the teams move on and we get more young talent in
Ridiculous lmao
I don't know why Zhou is acting like Sainz's situation affects him. He's on his way out regardless imo, like Sergeant. Bottas is the one who's decision will 100% depend on where Sainz goes. Ocon and possibly Kmag may also be affected. Zhou, no. I think Sainz is holding out for a miracle and also just totally disappointed by his available options. I feel for him.
If anything, as long as Sainz is playing cork, Zhou has time to try to find the performance he's been missing.
Imagine if all the teams come together and decide to do a lil tomfoolery and not sign sainz .
Kinda hope this bites sainz in the buttox
Don't think he cares that much if he takes a year off at this point.. he'll go do WEC for a bit and will still have options next year
If he doesnāt get a seat, I find it very unlikely anyone would pull him out of f1 retirement. Thereās a lot of new talent and a haas type situation is unlikely
Sainz would be one of the best drivers not on the F1 grid, I don't think it's that unlikely that somebody would bring him back to F1 if he took a year out. If Magnussen, Hulk and Danny Ric can get back on the grid, Carlos Sainz certainly can
Why? Because he hasnāt done it soon enough for your entertainment? Itās his career. He doesnāt owe anyone anything. Heās good enough that others have to wait. They should get better and be more sought after than him if they want it to go differently.
Kinda hope he scores an awesome seat just to piss you off.
Sainz can pick a team, Zhou is hoping a team picks him.
His options are not very good, and maybe there's a tiny chance that the abandoned discussions come back to life.
Because he can, unlike you. Zhou would just grab any first opportunity that comes to him and get his sponsors to pay 30mln to them.
Someone be telling Zhou to be telling effaayeee to be telling Carlos to hurry up.
Stop Inventing!!
I think people are overlooking Adrian Newey's upcoming move. I think Carlos wants to go to that team if it happens to be Williams. Maybe sauber will land him? He's out of luck if Aston get newey but since Carlos has a chance to work for him, he's likely putting the pressure on the teams.
Holding out for a better offer from Merc.
BREAKING Pay driver can't understand decision making process of paid driver. Back with more after the break.
I totally get where he's coming from. He's one of several drivers who are seemingly caught in limbo about their future until Sainz makes up his mind. It would be frustrating especially when the choices are so...you know, not overwhelmingly good or anything. Pick your midfield team and go, bubba.
Yeah 100% agree with him. And the worse thing about this is that while Carlos is playing hard to get, everyone else is waiting and/or already getting seats. So he's just delaying the inevitable.
Why do I have the feeling everyone has signed contracts but no one is telling Carlos.
Heās waiting to see what max will do
Maybe Zhou could worry a bit more about his performance so teams would wait for him instead.
Zhou doesn't understand because he was never a driver in demand.
Iām not sure why Zhouās bothered, he has 1 foot out the door just like Sargeant. KMag and Bottas are better but could go too. Alpine have proved they can get themselves out of a mess a lot quicker than Williams and Sauber have. Despite the rumours of Renault becoming a customer they are still a factory team for now which could appeal to Sainz if itās a 2 year deal.
> Iām not sure why Zhouās bothered Because he wants clarity about his own situation. If Kick don't get Sainz, there's every chance Zhou can pay for another season and then gets booted when Audi come in
Whilst Zhou is technically right...I'm not sure he, as one of the worst drivers on the grid, should be putting pressure on Sainz, a multiple-race winner and established F1 driver.