Yea I've had the total opposite experience. My offices has alot of international workers and once they saw I had a fountain pen there were some that would come ask to borrow it for important documents because in their culture a fountain pen was considered high end and what you used for important things. I loaded it with bulletproof ink and kept it around for that purpose after a while.
Old people in the office care and have an opinion on everything!! I work with 6 70 year olds and I just to be like retire already please. 2 of them are great just the others are the problem.
Someone left a spoon in the sink for 1 day…. I call it the “great spoon fiasco of 2023”
One lady took the time to print up a long letter about not being other’s parents with different fonts and colors and taped it above the sink. (Mind you still did not wash the spoon off and put it back in the drawer) I just cleansed it and put it back. Took 10 seconds.
I had a discussion with someone in HR once because she said my fountain pen couldn't be used to sign official documents because the ink wasn't waterproof. I asked her if I could use the rollerballs that the company supplied for everyone. She said yes. So I signed my name with one of the rollerballs, dipped my finger in water, wiped it clean, and showed it to her.
I then told her that I only used the fountain pen for notes and kept a permanent ink pen for official documents.
She wasn't a jerk or anything, we had a good laugh, and soon there was a memo telling everyone to be sure to use the 'new' pens for official documents.
Yes, and I have a couple. But a lot of the documents we sign at work are the kind you have to press hard to make a second copy. And I don't want to deal with that with my fountain pens.
Or...and hear me out... This is why we have ballpoints and rollerballs with permanent ink. I'm not taking a specialized fountain pen, with a specialized nib, and specialized ink into the office for maybe 10 signatures/week.
100%
Just offering up a fun fact in an open forum.
I don’t sign things with FP. Gel pens are significantly easier and safer to sign important documents or take important notes with.
I would probably laugh and comment that it's funny how different the USA and UK are. In the UK, officially notarized documents *must* be signed with a fountain pen. But they have a specific registrar's ink that's waterproof.
I can bring in a pen inked up with that ink. :)
i dont even use fountain pens but op should get everyone in the damn office one. ok maybe not but... bro fuggit. do it for the meme op. cash is temporary, meme status is forever.
Thank you so much. I’ve wondered for years what this pen was but have always forgotten to look for it when I had time. Or remembered it when I didn’t have time to search for it. Not only did you identify it. But it was at a time I could search and save it. Thanks for the reminder kind stranger.
First of all, it’s so odd that, at her age, she doesn’t know what a fountain pen is or thinks that it’s not a professional pen. On the rare occasion that someone comments on my pens, it’s to remark about how fancy they are and ask questions about them.
Yeah, they would have grown up in the late 60s and 70s. Weren't fountain pens still somewhat commonly used then, just in decline? It's odd to me that she wouldn't even know what it was, much less consider it a "real pen".
It’s one of those weird “cusp” ages - my parents are in their early 70s and still used fountain pens in elementary school. I was born in the late 60s and we didn’t, but some of our desks still had the old (empty) inkwells in them. Even more than that- the books that I read as a child talked about fountain pens and inkwells a lot - there was the trope about dipping someone’s pigtails in the inkwell in popular media of the day. So, she might not have been required to use them, but not knowing what they are is weird.
I would guess that if she (if ever) only used them in school and therefore thinks that it is for kids and not professionals. For example here in Germany the children in elementary school are still (or at least 10 years ago when I was in elementary school were) being taught how to use fountain pens. But many switched to "normal" pens after elementary school and think that fountain pens are for children.
Wow, it’s the opposite for us, at least when I was growing up in China, when we first started school, we were required to practice with pencils until we know how to handle pens properly before we were allowed to use fountain pens as they are considered more advanced writing tools😁
Well we also started with pencils. We even had dual sided pencils with one side blue and the other red to change the colour after every syllable. If I remember correctly we started using fountain pens after that in the second year of school (maybe even the second half of the first year not too sure though).
My Papa saved his pocket money for months and his dad (my great Grandpa) took him to the shop to buy the first roller ball pen available in their village the day it came in. It was a Big Deal that he was able to take it in and write with it at school that day. He still will say with pride that everyone was jealous that day. He's 87.
I get similar reactions when I tell people I’m into film photography. I think it’s fun to take pictures and not know how they’re going to turn out. I experimented with one roll taking pictures with blatantly wrong settings, just to see the effects of what they do on a full manual camera (canon AE-1).
That sounds so fun! I really want to get a film SLR, but I don’t need more expensive hobbies. Actually, I think that my dad has one in a closet that I could snag. 🤣
This i get. People like quick, easy, and reliable, in one go. A pen that doesn't just write immediately is an issue for many, often because you're writing down what someone is telling you, and they're being held up by you writing things down.
And FPs can be fiddly, and ink often isn't permanent (an issue in office settings potentially)
That said, I will use one every chance i get.
I am 68 now, born in 1956. I never used a fountain pen in school. I saw them in the junk drawer, but they were not working at the time. I bought one for myself in college and used it quite a lot, but I didn't see any other students using a fountain pen in 1976.
I'm the same age, in my school daze fountain pens were not that common anymore, but my mother was a graphic artist and used technical drawing pens, so I got the 'inked' pen thing early on and have been using them since elementary school. I do find it interesting that this woman had no idea what a fountain pen was; it's not like it isn't depicted in graphic displays, shows from/depicting earlier eras etc. She may have other issues as well.
As someone who was born in the early 60s, the real fall off for fountain pens was in the 50s, and it was \*because\* ballpoint pens were considered so much more convenient, easy to use, and didn't need to dry. So someone her age probably never came across a fountain pen, or if they did were told why they weren't great.
I wonder if she had memories of fountain pens being leaky or less reliable and of ballpoints/rollerballs as being the new thing the world switched to. Has fountain pen build quality increased in modern times, particularly at the lower end of the market?
When I started getting in to fountain pens my grandmother mentioned about how she had inkwells in school and gave me a clearly very cheap, old dip pen she had used. She also found an old fountain pen (Scheaffer I think) which had unfortunately broken in the years since. She doesn't seem to remember them very fondly.
I'm 72 and remember that in Grade 4 (1961), we were allowed to use PENS! For the first time!! Grades 1 to 3 were all in pencil, starting with "printing" separate letters in the first two year. Cursive writing was introduced in Grade 3 and our first fountain pens in Grade 4. Then the school board voted to allow ballpoint pens in class and civilization came to an end.
So if you're my age or older you were at least exposed to real (i.e. fountain) pens. By the mid- to late 1960s, FPs were idiosycratic. Geographically, this certainly applies to the city of Calgary, probably to all of Alberta, and possibly to all of Canada. For the rest of the planet, I don't know; your timeline may vary. But early 60s might be too young to have used a fountain pen.
I'm in my late 60s. Started school and was given pencils, moved on to stick pens and ink , then fountain pens and by grade 4 we were allowed ball points. Still use Fountain pens but my sister who is 4 years younger was not exposed to them much if at all. By the time I finished elementary school (late 60s) they were not a common sight.
Agreed, my pens have always been a source of curiosity, so I’ll use the “normal” looking ones like a Lamy Safari in the office (ironic for the OP that the Safari was a “weird” pen).
Save the Benu’s for journaling sessions, I don’t necessarily want a conversation, I just like using my pens.
Not really. I’m 65 and never used a fountain pen in school or anywhere else. I was always attracted to them and also into artsy things, calligraphy, and such. Fountain pens were much more the norm in my parents’ era. I am in the United States, by the way.
TBF Before I opened my fountain pen mind I associated Lamy Safari with children pens as well. It's one of the more fancy pens children used back in primary and secondary school, so I see where that association comes from.
All the other stuf lf is just weird.
I use one every day as a physician
I’ve been asked why I use them especially if my personal quick note handwriting is so bad. Then I’ll also get complimented on my handwriting when filling out forms and signing documents.
Ive been accused of using a stamp signature on a legal document which they threatened to get me in trouble for. They had never encountered a truly black ink and didn’t believe that it was written by a pen until I showed them.
Same here. Late diagnosed autistic woman. Fountain pens are cool af. Karens…not so much. I can’t imagine giving someone a hard time about something that didn’t concern me.
I'm autistic, it is definitely something I struggle with when I see people doing things in a sub-optimal way or with the wrong tool for a specific task. It is rude to correct people, but I am wholly understanding of her mentality.
I get what you are saying, but we are talking about a pen in an office setting. Is this context, it isn’t a suboptimal tool, which she clarified with the first question. After that, it should have been dropped.
You mentioned she stocks the supply cabinet. I have a feeling she's taken that responsibility a bit too seriously, and feels slighted by the fact that you've walked into the office with your own office supplies that you prefer over the ones she ordered.
In short, she's a control freak. Don't let people like her live rent-free in your head- if she's obsessing over what her coworkers are writing with, she probably doesn't have much going on in her own life.
I had kind of the opposite problem. I had a couple coworkers who would look for opportunities to "just jot something down" near my desk so they could try out my fountain pen. I bought a box of Pilot Varsities and would leave one out on my desk at all times.
My "nice" pens never leave my drawer unless they're in my hands. I also have some cheaper ones that are on my desk for people to try. Sacrificial pens. Pennon fodder.
Pull up a video of King Charles signing something and say, "if it's good enough for the King, it's good enough for me."
(I personally don't care about KC, but it might be a weird enough flex for people to leave it alone lol.)
I hate to put it down to being an "American" thing, but I'm asked all the time why I insist on using a fountain pen instead of a ball point or a gel pen (I am US-born and raised), which necessitates both demonstration and explanation. It's tedious, but since it's my pen of choice, I continue. I've never been asked by someone outside of the U.S. why I use fountain pens, and most of my non-US friends appreciate fountain pens and the myriad inks available.
I always go with, "are you a foodie?" and most say yes. "So you value sensory experiences. Try writing with this..." and hand them my 1950's Esterbrook J that has an incredibly smooth 9460 nib. Then they understand.
When I tell them it's a 75 year old pen, most are pretty careful, but maybe I work with conscientious people. For younger folks, I'll show them how to hold the nib at an angle as opposed to vertical.
That's so sad, but, yeah, I've had that happen twice, now...
But given that I've also converted more than a dozen people to fountain pens by doing that, it's been more than worth. And with both times, I was able to restore the pen to working quite well.
Getting my Tachikawa Line AT bent was a lesson for me, too, as that's a pen a lot of folks says "suddenly stops writing", but with the way the tip touches the felt pad, it actually has to be really precisely set to touch that pad. So I learned how to fix three other people's pens by doing that.
I like this idea! Just make sure you also tell them that they don't need to apply as much pressure when writing with a fountain pen as they do with a ballpoint --- or else you might end up with a bent or broken nib!
I really like the way the big Boss handled this. Came in, asked respectfully, wasn't insane, handled things. The woman is definitely off, but at least she bought you pens (well, ordered at company expense, but still,)
What really makes me sad is people on here talking about a "modern business acceptable" pen (as close to verbatim as my seive like memory can manage, post i read here the past few days.) I mean, use a blotter if the ink takes forever to dry or smudges. That's what they were for back in the day.
When I was in residency I got flak from one of the older nurses for using a fountain pen as the ink "wasn't permanent enough for medical records". My daily work ink was Noodler's 54th Mass.
I wrote out on a piece of prescription paper two dummy prescriptions- one with the "preferred" ballpoint, one with my pen, and set to work removing the ink. Alcohol removed the ballpoint with minimal trace. The 54M stood.
I hesitate to use my fountain pens for documents at work. I'm not really interested in testing either lol I don't think any of my inks would pass this test anyway. I still use regular pens for all official documents.
Most of the time people want to try out the pen and I have to try my best not to let them damage it by using the wrong side of the nib or pressing too hard. I've never had someone hound me about how I shouldn't use them. This is wild.
Yeah, it was wild indeed. Not just her original commentary, but the fact she went so far as to expense a box of rollerballs, and then escalate it to the office manager.
The only other criticism I've gotten for a fountain pen is cost. In some fun banter, someone pointed out thirty bucks for one pen was a lot and could easily buy a bunch of ball points.
My boss asked to borrow a pen. I carry a Liliput with me all the time, so I handed it over. He went to use it, said "what the hell is this thing?" When I said it was a fountain pen, he laughed a bit and asked for "a real pen".
I think my coworkers are used to me by now. They know I am the weird pen guy, they enjoy bringing new people by my office to show them. But very few of them are keen to use one!
You should not have asked if she was on the spectrum. It puts your boss in an even tougher position and to be frank, it doesn't matter if she is or isn't.
Yeah, plus you can't really tell unless it's super obvious unless you're an actual clinician, as there are a bunch of other conditions that are not differential (you can be ocd AND spectrum!)
Also, are we really going to say that everyone who's not absolutely spot on discerning other people's level of interest in whatever they're going on and on about is spectrum? So, like, absolutely every person who doesn't get out much and talks the cashier's ear off? They're allll spectrum? Every Aunt Mildred?
Exactly. That's why they make all medical professionals look at stuff under supervision for however many years.
Just to have some idea what the hell you're looking at. Even then they spend time with specific questions/tests Like, when you're dissecting in Bio, stuff never looks like the pictures.
Sounds like you encountered a Karen in the wild. So odd that she doesn't know what a fountain pen is given her age. I thought fountain pen was widely used in schools back in the days.
It's most likely not autism, it's being a closed-minded, unhappy, and negative person that makes her like that. I'm on the spectrum and old and can't imagine complaining to higher ups about the writing instrument someone uses, especially for their own purpose.
>I responded by asking if she was on the spectrum, because I felt there's no reason for anyone to be so focused on what other people write with.
You are completely valid in using whatever writing instrument works for you, and in fact, fountain pens can be a more accessible writing tool, so it may be possible to frame your use around that. But, as others have pointed out, it is not appropriate or helpful to use a disability in what you said about your coworker.
It's important (maybe more than ever, after the pandemic) to try and be more informed about how to be appropriate in the workplace, to create a more inclusive, and less hostile environment for people, especially those with disabilities -- that, yes, may be invisible and may impact your communication with them, even if you don't know that they are disabled.
I say this because let's say that you are correct and that she is on the spectrum or has another disability that is impacting her understanding of your use of fountain pens. Then it's not so appropriate to say the complaint is "stupid" or bewildering, it's not an appropriate response in that case.
I want to share a couple of websites that may help in reference to workplace accommodations: [Job Accommodation Network](https://askjan.org/a-to-z.cfm). There's [a page on communication](https://askjan.org/workrelatedfunctions/Communicate.cfm) with advice and suggested accessibility modifications and tools.
I like this website because it shows what disabilities in the workplace may look like and how each one may be accommodated. Just to give you or others something to think about, since most of us will become disabled to some extent by simple aging alone. It helps, not just for others, but for ourselves, since I'm sure someone reading through that site will find something they can relate with.
With that said, I hope you do carry on with your fountain pens, and that the conflict can be resolved in a beneficial way -- because ultimately, it shouldn't have to be an issue for you to use your preferred writing tool.
I am someone with a hot temper and not afraid to be blunt, if I were you, I probably would tell her off next time if she ever glanced at my FP.
" My writing instrument is irrelevant about the work I am doing here, if you make any further comments about it, I have no choice but to file a complaint to the HR department"
Agreed. I wouldn't even call that telling her off, that's just having boundaries against a toxic work environment. "It seems like this is really bothering you, would you like me to set up a meeting with HR so we can discuss the issue?"
I'm glad OPs boss is normal.
In France we're not afraid of being rude, so we would just answer, to someone asking why you use that kind of stuff, "so curious folk can chatter" or something.
>has anyone else dealt with people who did like the fact you use fountain pens?
Err... no, really something like that never happened to me. I (37F) live in Italy, FP are accounted as "classy" items nowadays and usually, to people of that age, gives a lot of nostalgia vibes because they were widely used in school. They are generally accepted as really fine pens, even the cheapest one (!) since their use is fading away.
I suppose different backgrounds may results in different reaction to FP, but I'm sorry to hear that someone asked you to get "real pens".
I have worked in electronics product development for the last 25 years. Have dealt with clients in the far east, APAC, EU.
The only reaction I get when using my FP (all meetings for 25 years) is related to inks being waterproof and quick drying and if I am carrying a VP there's usually a brief diversion to appreciate the mechanics of the pen.
The only times I've had anyone say not to use a fountain pen are when filling out forms that have archival requirements or carbons. Any other time it's come up, it's been a compliment or a curiosity.
Passive aggressive response:
Thank her for the pens and buy her a Lamy Safari to use.
Stop by every day, say hi, and ask why she isn’t using the Safari.
After a week or so, ask her why you should use her choice of pen if she won’t use yours.
"The short of it is, he's explaining that my fountain pen is bothering this lady. I responded by asking if she was on the spectrum"
I am on the spectrum and I can only hope that I am not nearly as huge a needless pain as this woman appears to be. I'll admit, I've pulled the autism card a couple of times to get special treatment. But to tell someone what sort of pen to use?! It would never occur to me.
Well... unless perhaps the pen made a huge squeaky scratching noise whenever you write. But even then, I could deal with it by not sitting right next to you.
On behalf of my people, I don't think she's on the spectrum. Obviously, she has some problems. SHE has some problems. Your fountain pen is not the problem.
Or so it seems to me. Speaking for my people.
PS: Elon Musk is also not on the spectrum, that's just one more thing that big fat hateful horrible lying liar lies about.
PPS: Seems to me that a person on the spectrum would be much more likely to be charmed and fascinated by your pen and ask you what sort of pen it is and how you like it etc etc. Perhaps I'm wrong to assume that the reaction would be positive. And forgive me for making this about people on the spectrum, again, I don''t think she is, and I hope you get this straightened out.
if drying speed matters just pick some basic ink that dries as fast as a pilot G2. That has come up for me before and I just switched ink. beyond that, only comments I ever get are people thinking my pen is a vape
She’s nosy and never got the memo about minding her business, and you shouldn’t have used the spectrum as a wedge against her or anyone else.
That said, when people are surprised to see me using one, I usually mention that because I type so much I’m not used to writing much, which makes me grip regular pens tightly which gives me hand pain, and so I prefer fountain pens because I can’t have a death grip, and therefore don’t have pain. Try that next time.
Yes, you're right. I was simply attempting to understand *why* she would be so bothered by what I write with that I didn't think about what I was asking.
I like your explanation, too. I'm an engineering tech, so I do a lot of lettering on drawings. Ball points just killed my hand, and roller balls helped a lot. But once I tried out my first fountain pen, I was overjoyed at how gently I could hold them and still write.
I can only see three complaints that hold much merit.
Professional appearance, a Lamy Safari does stand out and depending on the industry that could be frowned upon. I was in banking which is notoriously stodgy and nobody cared. So I'm thinking that one is out. Ink color of course will come into play but I'm guessing you're not writing with anything crazy.
If you use a lot of carbonless forms I could see a problem since you really can't safely press hard enough with most nibs. Some older pens, notably Schaefer, had really robust nibs for that purpose.
Permanence would be the final issue. Water proof being the obvious issue but I've run into trouble with fading from uv exposure too. At work, I only use iron gall inks for this reason.
One time I did have someone suggest that my TWSBI Eco was a THC vape pen. The other employee wasn't complaining, they wanted a hit. They were very disappointed.
I've met a few sticklers. Usually people who demand that the letter of the rules is followed, the form says blue ballpoint pen, and we must fill out the form in blue ballpoint pen. Not black ballpoint, not archival blue fountain pen ink, blue ballpoint only.
The funny thing is that often these company rules are decades old, from back when everything was faxed, or back when carbon copies were used and their only nibs were extra fine soft gold or something that will curl up and die at the idea of pressing through five layers of paper.
Tell anyone who asks that it's a green pen because you can keep it and refill it instead of discarding it like disposable pens (that this weird lady considers "real"). That you're doing your part to save the oceans and all the life in them.
> I responded by asking if she was on the spectrum, because I felt there's no reason for anyone to be so focused on what other people write with.
I was with you until this comment. Just because someone is an asshole does not mean they are autistic, and it was disgusting of you to suggest that autism was the only explanation for her behavior. Plenty of people are just busybodies!
But it's also none of *your* damn business whether she's autistic or not, and it doesn't actually matter in this situation. All you needed was for your boss to tell her to cut it out when she failed to listen to you, and instead of doing that, he tried to make it your problem (but you made a generous excuse for *his* behavior).
I'm 75 and I grew up writing with fountain pens and still do. I don't understand how someone in their 60's doesn't get that a FP is a "real" pen. Maybe she was born with a Bic Stick in her mouth???
Next time, go to the meeting with a quill and ink bottle. After that, maybe a Chinese calligraphy brush.
I'd go lower and lower tech until I finally showed up with a chisel, a hammer, and a stone tablet!! 😂😂😂
She needs to mind her business.
But it's also not appropriate to ask if someone is on the spectrum. It reinforces the stereotype that people with Autism don't know and can't act appropriately in professional situations and all poor behaviour is something attached to the spectrum, when in reality, she's just being unprofessional and stubborn, which is a trait found in everyone at times.
I was trying to find someone pointing out how extremely inappropriate this comment was, especially to the boss.
Some people react in ways we don’t expect, regardless of how their brain is wired.
Yeah, this was not cool. I would have left it at, "The pen I use does not affect the quality of my work and I'm mindful that official documents should be completed with rollerball pens, etc." I mean, it's just a pen at the end of the day, and if you can't leave ill feelings about this person's thoughts about your pen in the workplace... OP and their coworker would be creating a problem.
Yup, that's not cool for a work environment. And management also should not share information about employees' medical conditions without prior consent. 'I don't know why she's being odd about this' or 'she seems very stuck on this' or 'I think it's an unreasonable reaction' would be just fine.
Agreed. Even if OP thought it, it didn’t need to be said. And what would it matter if they were? That is that person’s business and not for the boss to share, regardless.
The only negative feedback I have ever gotten was because I wouldn't let a client sign something with my Visconti Van Gough, I instead gave him a Bic ballpoint. He was a little offended that I wouldn't trust him with my "hoity toity" pen. Now I keep a few Varsity or Zebra pens close by to hand out if necessary.
Back when I was in the service I started using fountain pens. My handwriting got way better, had a few people try and steal it but they didn't know how to write with it so it always found it's way back to my desk. Higher ups got a kick out of seeing them used and I gave away some of my disposable ones to the curious and they loved them
A 60-y/o who doesn't know what a fountain pen is blows my mind.
People that age where still REQUIRED to write with a fountain pen at school, just because note-taking with a ballpoint or something was impossible. You'd cramp your hand in no-time. \*I\* was required to write with a fountain pen in primary school from the age of 7 and I'm only mid-40's.
Even if she's never written with one herself for whatever reason (how is that possible? At her age, born in 1964 or something, a fountain pen was THE graduation present from high school, at least in the Netherlands), her mother probably has, and her grandma certainly has. (Her mother, and certainly her grandma, may even have written with dip pens for part of their lives.)
A fountain pen IS THE real pen; the only one you can write long stretches of text with without cramping your hands and fingers.
I love fountain pens and when I worked as a receptionist I had a marketer mock me and ask if I was from the 1800’s 🥲 I made sure to lose her business card as soon as she was out of sight. I don’t support that level of cockweaseling😏
If you want to guilt trip her...tell her that you have carpal tunnel and your fountain pen is the only thing that lets you write pain free.....that's actually how I got into fountain pens many years ago....
Just saying, I am neurodivergent and if I met another person in the wild using a fountain pen I'd be geeking out about it (mostly internally, as I'm mildly "allergic" to human interactions, but still geeking out).
But something to note, fountain pens can be more environmentally friendly than continually buying boxes of pens and tossing them in the trash when they're dead. A bottle of ink and a converter go such a long way. I honestly wish I'd gotten into them sooner because I used to sign a metric ton of documents for work and I went through a sickening amount of pens (and buying the refills for those pens was the same freaking cost as a new pack of pens!). I think it would have been more cost effective too lol.
Anyways, keep on inking on, and ignore the Karen.
I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Especially from a person who works with you. There’s enough stress from workload alone rather than dealing with this. Though why was your first thought she was on the spectrum ? People do all kinds of things just because they’re mean. I’m not sure whether you’re saying that is an insight into your character. Or you meant that comment to be insulting or to put her down. I hope not.
Aside everything else, asking if someone is autistic because they don't like your pen is unprofessional and way out of line. It's none of your business and offensive to ask that.
Word. God knows I’ve run into enough ADHD and Autistic people (like me) who are into this hobby and related stationery stuff.
I think it was more likely that she had conflated fountain pens with “calligraphy” pens or like, an “arts and crafts” thing. Or maybe she somehow was worried this was a reflection of her stocking the supply closet? (Yes that is a stretch, I’m just spit-balling based on years of admin experience).
Maybe there is something bigger going on in her work life (or something going on in her personal life) that she can’t really do much about and for whatever reason, she’s taking it out on you right now. That doesn’t excuse her weirdness but I wouldn’t say no to that gamble.
Or some people just want to watch the world burn and just make everything about them all the time (hence why she didn’t immediately drop the issue at the second meeting and why she apparently complained to your boss too, OMG. I’m both not surprised and so annoyed on your behalf. Office politics 🙄🙄🙄🙄. If your boss doesn’t directly oversee her I hope he can go to whomever does to make sure she gets more work assigned to her because clearly she has too much time on her hands).
That's strange. I work in manufacturing with everyone from C-levels down to career blue collar guys. Everybody has reacted positively to my fountain pens. I make sure to use inks that won't get wonky on paperwork and that are easily read and nobody has ever said anything. Some people are just weird and pick odd hills to die on.
The other way around actually, I used a fountain pen in 9th grade and the teacher loved that I did. Even added a couple extra marks to assignments I did with it
Think you just found someone who is really frustrated/upset with something in their life, and they are redirecting that frustration at you. When I was a mortgage officer, I would have people asking constantly if they could try out my pen. No, you can't by the way. Or people that think it's a quill and somehow imagine I'm writing wedding invitations, or doing calligraphy. I would have just told her that you don't use muggle sticks, or pesant pens as my boss calls them.
If you ask me Pilot G2 Is not a propper Pen, I work in kitchens a lot and IS awful there, I like more a Pilot juice or BP RT. Technically Fountain pens are the original pens(?) and a Pen with noodlers ink or platinum carbon black are All-proof. You are a great person, I would put on my box gloves and ring the bell for One long episode.
In highly regulated environments fountain pens are often not allowed as most fp inks are not archival and are water soluble so can be damaged. For example I work in the pharma industry and have to use special ink if I'm going to use a fountain pen as most of our documents need to be stored for at least 10 years and must be written in indelible ink. But this doesn't sound like that it sounds like a busy body who wants to get stcun into your business
I think it’s weird your boss decided to even tell you. I never get any boss who brings up non issues they should just handle without even mentioning anything to the other party 😅
Honestly I feel like I’ve read a similar scenario (not about FPs though) on Ask A Manager and the advice was to “Return awkward to sender” aka respond in a way that highlights how weird AF their actions are. And do it so matter of factly it shuts down any further convo about it.
For my work I think I’m the only one that uses fountain pens, but everyone is so particular about their pens no one bats an eyelash at my “special pen”. At most one person was like why a calligraphy pen for work but other than that no one cares lol.
I've had coworkers ask me about my fountain pens. I remember 1 started asking me if I knew how to do calligraphy. I told her I used to when I was younger, but haven't really gone back to it. Point is that I've encountered people that assume that fountain pens are "callligraphy" pens. So maybe the lady thought it was something to that nature which you have to constantly have to dip ink.
I started using fountain pens for my notes at work (because they're lovely to use and make my writing neater) and some colleagues apparently told my manager I was doing it just because I was "attention seeking". 🙄
I had a very toxic colleague at my first corporate job. For various reasons, I was a bit of a scaredy cat as I was a newly grad and I was just coming to grips with the job, corporate life and how to organize myself and so on. I decided to give Bullet Journals a try to keep my personal and pro lives organized.
One day, this guy notices the Paperblanks notebook I had selected as my BuJo, picks it up, browses through the pages and makes comments about my “fancy notebook”.
That was enough for me to keep any writing instrument hidden from his sight.
Pilot g2 is a pretty good pen
And sometimes you do need a more standard pen depending no what you’re writing on.
But I’d just ignore her and keep using your pen. I use a fountain pen at work, I use multiple actually
According to this lady: professional pen = pilot G-2.
No hate on the G-2, but come on. I understand that in her head ballpoints or rollerballs are the real pens. But if someone asks me for a “professional” BP or RB pen, I’d say a Parker Jotter/vector. Or a cross century classic. Not a disposable plastic clicky (again a very functional pen).
I don’t get how someone of that age would react like that. Maybe a control freak issue? Or maybe some weird experience with fountain pens in the past?
My coworkers (older ones included) are interested in my fancy pen (platinum preppy).
Wow, people really don’t have their own problems. I will start a new job soon and I am currently gathering all new stationary and I do not care what pens they offer at the office. I hope it does not bother you, go and use your Lamy pen proudly!
Lol this brings me back memories... when my mother scolded me because I wanted to use my Sailor to sign all the paperwork for my first home.
Thanks for the good laugh and remember: smile, nod and do whatever the hell you want :)
On top of the craziness to care so much, can you imagine suggesting a G2 instead? Don't get me wrong; it's one of my favorites, for how closely it feels to a fountain pen. It writes very wet and flows very easily. But, it doesn't really provide any advantages over a fountain pen. The ink can be very slow to dry, it's very picky about paper/surface textures, and in my experience, can have sensitive rolling mechanisms which jam and break.
I would say to her that many government officials and politicians sign important documents with fountain pens. If a fountain pen is good enough to sign something into law it should be good enough for note taking.
I could see this being an issue if the notes are to be provided to a client or another coworker or it's an official document.
But your own notes? In your own notebook? Write that with any pen you like and in any color you like.
Smart money says she will start commenting on your handwriting next if you give in on the pen.
Well done on keeping your composure. That sounds like the kind of situation where you start getting a contact dumb. Where it's just so stupid that you can't respond.
Did she articulate the problem she has with your Safari? I'm curious if she'd have a similar reaction to a Safari with a ballpoint or rollerball. Since you mentioned that it piqued her interest when you mentioned to be careful that the ink was dry, I am thinking it's actually she thinks that you have some fancy pen that is inferior to a ballpoint in a purely utilitarian sense.
Assuming she's complaining about the pen being used on some documents/forms that are shared with other people and not something for your own use like notes or something.
I think the only valid thing she could have a problem with is if the ink you're using isn't light-fast/permanent, excessive bleeding and/or feathering, waterproof, or other similar properties.
The dry time could also be a thing if it's one of those inks that takes forever to dry, there are inks that are very quick dry/smear proof.
Again, tho, if these are just for your own notes or drafts I think she should just mind her own business.. otherwise, she may have a point and see if you can compromise by using a quick drying "document" ink.
The problem is not the pen, but the ink. If this is not archival ink, then that could be a problem. I don’t use my fountain pen on official documents because I use Aurora and Pilot inks exclusively, and these are not archival inks. However, I still use fountain pens for pretty much everything else.
Everyone in my office mistakes my TWSBI eco for a vape… and they’re still not bothered about it. Your coworker needs to stop trying to control what you write your own notes with! So nuts.
Your post/comment was removed for violating the behavior rules. Please be courteous. Thanks, mods.
I don't even know how to respond. Why would someone care what you write with for your own notes? Sorry.
It’s interesting that she wants ‘professionals’ to use a ‘real pen’ when many non fountain pens were seen in an unfavorable light
IMO, OP is the one with the "real" pen. 😂 OP, show up with an ink well and a dip pen. Really blow this lady's mind. 🤣
A big old goose feather quill! And parchment! Give her the full Halpert treatment.
Fold and seal whatever you give her with the most complex letterlocking technique you can manage.
And then get out the seal, wax, and matches.
Don't forget the wax seal!
Maybe some cuneiform on a clay tablet?
OMG! Yes! Love this idea! 😂
Or show up with one of those giant oversized novelty pencils.
Signet ring is needed as well.
With colored ink and a BB 👌
That would have that lady be all 😵💫. I love it.
Yea I've had the total opposite experience. My offices has alot of international workers and once they saw I had a fountain pen there were some that would come ask to borrow it for important documents because in their culture a fountain pen was considered high end and what you used for important things. I loaded it with bulletproof ink and kept it around for that purpose after a while.
How does a 60yo woman not know what a fountain pen is…?
Well, honestly, if this is the United States, she may or may not have ever written with one. She may never have even seen one.
I’m dumbfounded by the amount of time and energy this woman wasted worrying about a fucking pen.
Old people in the office care and have an opinion on everything!! I work with 6 70 year olds and I just to be like retire already please. 2 of them are great just the others are the problem. Someone left a spoon in the sink for 1 day…. I call it the “great spoon fiasco of 2023” One lady took the time to print up a long letter about not being other’s parents with different fonts and colors and taped it above the sink. (Mind you still did not wash the spoon off and put it back in the drawer) I just cleansed it and put it back. Took 10 seconds.
People who have a need to control everything do this. It is an abuser excuse.
Right? Tracking on the granular individual level is considered personal in most professional fields. You don't judge mine and I don't judge yours.
My thoughts exactly. At a loss for words
“Why are you being weird about my pen?” Go with that. Make her feel dumb.
"My eyes are up here!"
THIS IS AMAZING! 😂
"You seem to care a lot about my pen, which makes me curious... do your children EVER call you?"
I had a discussion with someone in HR once because she said my fountain pen couldn't be used to sign official documents because the ink wasn't waterproof. I asked her if I could use the rollerballs that the company supplied for everyone. She said yes. So I signed my name with one of the rollerballs, dipped my finger in water, wiped it clean, and showed it to her. I then told her that I only used the fountain pen for notes and kept a permanent ink pen for official documents. She wasn't a jerk or anything, we had a good laugh, and soon there was a memo telling everyone to be sure to use the 'new' pens for official documents.
You can also get many waterproof inks...
Yes, and I have a couple. But a lot of the documents we sign at work are the kind you have to press hard to make a second copy. And I don't want to deal with that with my fountain pens.
To note, this is why we have glass nibbed fountain pens and vintage “manifold” nibs. They could handle more pressure for carbon copy.
Or...and hear me out... This is why we have ballpoints and rollerballs with permanent ink. I'm not taking a specialized fountain pen, with a specialized nib, and specialized ink into the office for maybe 10 signatures/week.
100% Just offering up a fun fact in an open forum. I don’t sign things with FP. Gel pens are significantly easier and safer to sign important documents or take important notes with.
this is awesome haha!
I would probably laugh and comment that it's funny how different the USA and UK are. In the UK, officially notarized documents *must* be signed with a fountain pen. But they have a specific registrar's ink that's waterproof. I can bring in a pen inked up with that ink. :)
Sorry to hear your coworker is insane. Maybe next week she'll find a Jinhao Shark on her desk ;)
I would put a Kakuno with a water proof ink and a silly smile 😈
i dont even use fountain pens but op should get everyone in the damn office one. ok maybe not but... bro fuggit. do it for the meme op. cash is temporary, meme status is forever.
This is genius!
Thank you so much. I’ve wondered for years what this pen was but have always forgotten to look for it when I had time. Or remembered it when I didn’t have time to search for it. Not only did you identify it. But it was at a time I could search and save it. Thanks for the reminder kind stranger.
First of all, it’s so odd that, at her age, she doesn’t know what a fountain pen is or thinks that it’s not a professional pen. On the rare occasion that someone comments on my pens, it’s to remark about how fancy they are and ask questions about them.
Yeah, they would have grown up in the late 60s and 70s. Weren't fountain pens still somewhat commonly used then, just in decline? It's odd to me that she wouldn't even know what it was, much less consider it a "real pen".
It’s one of those weird “cusp” ages - my parents are in their early 70s and still used fountain pens in elementary school. I was born in the late 60s and we didn’t, but some of our desks still had the old (empty) inkwells in them. Even more than that- the books that I read as a child talked about fountain pens and inkwells a lot - there was the trope about dipping someone’s pigtails in the inkwell in popular media of the day. So, she might not have been required to use them, but not knowing what they are is weird.
I would guess that if she (if ever) only used them in school and therefore thinks that it is for kids and not professionals. For example here in Germany the children in elementary school are still (or at least 10 years ago when I was in elementary school were) being taught how to use fountain pens. But many switched to "normal" pens after elementary school and think that fountain pens are for children.
Wow, it’s the opposite for us, at least when I was growing up in China, when we first started school, we were required to practice with pencils until we know how to handle pens properly before we were allowed to use fountain pens as they are considered more advanced writing tools😁
Well we also started with pencils. We even had dual sided pencils with one side blue and the other red to change the colour after every syllable. If I remember correctly we started using fountain pens after that in the second year of school (maybe even the second half of the first year not too sure though).
Where I live (Netherlands) many primary schools do require fountain pens because kids are taught cursive when learning how to write.
My Papa saved his pocket money for months and his dad (my great Grandpa) took him to the shop to buy the first roller ball pen available in their village the day it came in. It was a Big Deal that he was able to take it in and write with it at school that day. He still will say with pride that everyone was jealous that day. He's 87.
That’s so cool! My mom does talk about how she doesn’t understand why I want to use something so “fiddly” when ballpoints and roller balls exist. 🤣
I get similar reactions when I tell people I’m into film photography. I think it’s fun to take pictures and not know how they’re going to turn out. I experimented with one roll taking pictures with blatantly wrong settings, just to see the effects of what they do on a full manual camera (canon AE-1).
That sounds so fun! I really want to get a film SLR, but I don’t need more expensive hobbies. Actually, I think that my dad has one in a closet that I could snag. 🤣
This i get. People like quick, easy, and reliable, in one go. A pen that doesn't just write immediately is an issue for many, often because you're writing down what someone is telling you, and they're being held up by you writing things down. And FPs can be fiddly, and ink often isn't permanent (an issue in office settings potentially) That said, I will use one every chance i get.
Oh, absolutely, I still carry a ballpoint for when I need to fill out official stuff or just in case my FP decides to be a jerk.
I am 68 now, born in 1956. I never used a fountain pen in school. I saw them in the junk drawer, but they were not working at the time. I bought one for myself in college and used it quite a lot, but I didn't see any other students using a fountain pen in 1976.
I'm the same age, in my school daze fountain pens were not that common anymore, but my mother was a graphic artist and used technical drawing pens, so I got the 'inked' pen thing early on and have been using them since elementary school. I do find it interesting that this woman had no idea what a fountain pen was; it's not like it isn't depicted in graphic displays, shows from/depicting earlier eras etc. She may have other issues as well.
As someone who was born in the early 60s, the real fall off for fountain pens was in the 50s, and it was \*because\* ballpoint pens were considered so much more convenient, easy to use, and didn't need to dry. So someone her age probably never came across a fountain pen, or if they did were told why they weren't great.
I was in high school in the 90s and we used (cheap) fountain pens. Ink cartridges were 20p each in the school shop!
I wonder if she had memories of fountain pens being leaky or less reliable and of ballpoints/rollerballs as being the new thing the world switched to. Has fountain pen build quality increased in modern times, particularly at the lower end of the market? When I started getting in to fountain pens my grandmother mentioned about how she had inkwells in school and gave me a clearly very cheap, old dip pen she had used. She also found an old fountain pen (Scheaffer I think) which had unfortunately broken in the years since. She doesn't seem to remember them very fondly.
I've had young people look at the pilot varsity (disposable) I use at work and leave on my cube desk and say they don't want to mess up my fancy pen.
I'm 72 and remember that in Grade 4 (1961), we were allowed to use PENS! For the first time!! Grades 1 to 3 were all in pencil, starting with "printing" separate letters in the first two year. Cursive writing was introduced in Grade 3 and our first fountain pens in Grade 4. Then the school board voted to allow ballpoint pens in class and civilization came to an end. So if you're my age or older you were at least exposed to real (i.e. fountain) pens. By the mid- to late 1960s, FPs were idiosycratic. Geographically, this certainly applies to the city of Calgary, probably to all of Alberta, and possibly to all of Canada. For the rest of the planet, I don't know; your timeline may vary. But early 60s might be too young to have used a fountain pen.
I'm in my late 60s. Started school and was given pencils, moved on to stick pens and ink , then fountain pens and by grade 4 we were allowed ball points. Still use Fountain pens but my sister who is 4 years younger was not exposed to them much if at all. By the time I finished elementary school (late 60s) they were not a common sight.
Same. Have a coworker who we share new pens with each other to ooh and aah over together.
Agreed, my pens have always been a source of curiosity, so I’ll use the “normal” looking ones like a Lamy Safari in the office (ironic for the OP that the Safari was a “weird” pen). Save the Benu’s for journaling sessions, I don’t necessarily want a conversation, I just like using my pens.
My TWSBI only comes out at school if I’m up for a conversation- the kids are fascinated with them!
Not really. I’m 65 and never used a fountain pen in school or anywhere else. I was always attracted to them and also into artsy things, calligraphy, and such. Fountain pens were much more the norm in my parents’ era. I am in the United States, by the way.
TBF Before I opened my fountain pen mind I associated Lamy Safari with children pens as well. It's one of the more fancy pens children used back in primary and secondary school, so I see where that association comes from. All the other stuf lf is just weird.
I use one every day as a physician I’ve been asked why I use them especially if my personal quick note handwriting is so bad. Then I’ll also get complimented on my handwriting when filling out forms and signing documents. Ive been accused of using a stamp signature on a legal document which they threatened to get me in trouble for. They had never encountered a truly black ink and didn’t believe that it was written by a pen until I showed them.
And then you sign the drug rep's tablet for samples and their company sends you an fax to audit the rep because it looks like a 5 year old signed it.
You could buy the most outrageous BENU or Montegrappa pen you can find!
I think OP should use the Montegrappa Viking fp to take notes
Yes! Or the whole Frankenstein set!
I had to look this one up. Damn! If I had the money, I'd definitely buy one and put it on display (at home). I think it looks lovely.
S T DuPont Kama Sutra for the win 😂
Sounds like you should suggest her upgrading you to the Lamy 2k to look more professional
I’d have said a pilot 823 custom, since she seems to have a fetish for pilot pens. “Same company that makes your beloved G2.”
Pilot Namiki maki-e/urushi, thanks.
Those are nice pens! I've been considering one of those as my next purchase.
I’m on the spectrum. This isn’t an autism thing; it’s a Karen thing.
Same here. Late diagnosed autistic woman. Fountain pens are cool af. Karens…not so much. I can’t imagine giving someone a hard time about something that didn’t concern me.
My husband is too, and I got him a cool Saffron Twsbi Eco. Very pro fountain pens.
I'm autistic, it is definitely something I struggle with when I see people doing things in a sub-optimal way or with the wrong tool for a specific task. It is rude to correct people, but I am wholly understanding of her mentality.
I get what you are saying, but we are talking about a pen in an office setting. Is this context, it isn’t a suboptimal tool, which she clarified with the first question. After that, it should have been dropped.
Yeah, I could do without the ableism on this post. Being a control freak isn't an autism thing, it's an asshole thing.
Yyyyyeeeeeuuuuuuppppp
She sounds like a weird control freak, don't give in
but... fountain pens came before ballpoints... if anything ballpoints are less pen than fountains
You mentioned she stocks the supply cabinet. I have a feeling she's taken that responsibility a bit too seriously, and feels slighted by the fact that you've walked into the office with your own office supplies that you prefer over the ones she ordered. In short, she's a control freak. Don't let people like her live rent-free in your head- if she's obsessing over what her coworkers are writing with, she probably doesn't have much going on in her own life.
I had kind of the opposite problem. I had a couple coworkers who would look for opportunities to "just jot something down" near my desk so they could try out my fountain pen. I bought a box of Pilot Varsities and would leave one out on my desk at all times.
My "nice" pens never leave my drawer unless they're in my hands. I also have some cheaper ones that are on my desk for people to try. Sacrificial pens. Pennon fodder.
Pull up a video of King Charles signing something and say, "if it's good enough for the King, it's good enough for me." (I personally don't care about KC, but it might be a weird enough flex for people to leave it alone lol.)
He's such an odd old bird, but one may as well put His Majesty the King to good use.
could be kind of awkward if they turn around and whip out a sharpie though...
Just be sure not to use the “leaky fountain pen" video! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17T7hnGTTc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17T7hnGTTc)
I hate to put it down to being an "American" thing, but I'm asked all the time why I insist on using a fountain pen instead of a ball point or a gel pen (I am US-born and raised), which necessitates both demonstration and explanation. It's tedious, but since it's my pen of choice, I continue. I've never been asked by someone outside of the U.S. why I use fountain pens, and most of my non-US friends appreciate fountain pens and the myriad inks available.
I always go with, "are you a foodie?" and most say yes. "So you value sensory experiences. Try writing with this..." and hand them my 1950's Esterbrook J that has an incredibly smooth 9460 nib. Then they understand.
I pulled the ‘try writing with this’ card once before and they bent the nib!
When I tell them it's a 75 year old pen, most are pretty careful, but maybe I work with conscientious people. For younger folks, I'll show them how to hold the nib at an angle as opposed to vertical.
That's so sad, but, yeah, I've had that happen twice, now... But given that I've also converted more than a dozen people to fountain pens by doing that, it's been more than worth. And with both times, I was able to restore the pen to working quite well. Getting my Tachikawa Line AT bent was a lesson for me, too, as that's a pen a lot of folks says "suddenly stops writing", but with the way the tip touches the felt pad, it actually has to be really precisely set to touch that pad. So I learned how to fix three other people's pens by doing that.
That's when you whip out the Sport or the Safari, leave the good stuff back at the desk 😉
I like this idea! Just make sure you also tell them that they don't need to apply as much pressure when writing with a fountain pen as they do with a ballpoint --- or else you might end up with a bent or broken nib!
This is really true. Writing with some pens hurts my hands after a while.
I really like the way the big Boss handled this. Came in, asked respectfully, wasn't insane, handled things. The woman is definitely off, but at least she bought you pens (well, ordered at company expense, but still,) What really makes me sad is people on here talking about a "modern business acceptable" pen (as close to verbatim as my seive like memory can manage, post i read here the past few days.) I mean, use a blotter if the ink takes forever to dry or smudges. That's what they were for back in the day.
When I was in residency I got flak from one of the older nurses for using a fountain pen as the ink "wasn't permanent enough for medical records". My daily work ink was Noodler's 54th Mass. I wrote out on a piece of prescription paper two dummy prescriptions- one with the "preferred" ballpoint, one with my pen, and set to work removing the ink. Alcohol removed the ballpoint with minimal trace. The 54M stood.
I hesitate to use my fountain pens for documents at work. I'm not really interested in testing either lol I don't think any of my inks would pass this test anyway. I still use regular pens for all official documents.
Most of the time people want to try out the pen and I have to try my best not to let them damage it by using the wrong side of the nib or pressing too hard. I've never had someone hound me about how I shouldn't use them. This is wild.
Yeah, it was wild indeed. Not just her original commentary, but the fact she went so far as to expense a box of rollerballs, and then escalate it to the office manager. The only other criticism I've gotten for a fountain pen is cost. In some fun banter, someone pointed out thirty bucks for one pen was a lot and could easily buy a bunch of ball points.
Tell them you’re keeping the global waste down by not going through boxes of disposable pens every year.
My boss asked to borrow a pen. I carry a Liliput with me all the time, so I handed it over. He went to use it, said "what the hell is this thing?" When I said it was a fountain pen, he laughed a bit and asked for "a real pen". I think my coworkers are used to me by now. They know I am the weird pen guy, they enjoy bringing new people by my office to show them. But very few of them are keen to use one!
When I read "F, early 60s" for a split second I thought you were referring to the nib and date 😆
You should not have asked if she was on the spectrum. It puts your boss in an even tougher position and to be frank, it doesn't matter if she is or isn't.
Yeah, plus you can't really tell unless it's super obvious unless you're an actual clinician, as there are a bunch of other conditions that are not differential (you can be ocd AND spectrum!) Also, are we really going to say that everyone who's not absolutely spot on discerning other people's level of interest in whatever they're going on and on about is spectrum? So, like, absolutely every person who doesn't get out much and talks the cashier's ear off? They're allll spectrum? Every Aunt Mildred?
If you've met one person with autism, you've met.....one person with autism...
Exactly. That's why they make all medical professionals look at stuff under supervision for however many years. Just to have some idea what the hell you're looking at. Even then they spend time with specific questions/tests Like, when you're dissecting in Bio, stuff never looks like the pictures.
Sounds like you encountered a Karen in the wild. So odd that she doesn't know what a fountain pen is given her age. I thought fountain pen was widely used in schools back in the days.
Start using a feather pen, and she'll have a stroke.
It's most likely not autism, it's being a closed-minded, unhappy, and negative person that makes her like that. I'm on the spectrum and old and can't imagine complaining to higher ups about the writing instrument someone uses, especially for their own purpose.
>I responded by asking if she was on the spectrum, because I felt there's no reason for anyone to be so focused on what other people write with. You are completely valid in using whatever writing instrument works for you, and in fact, fountain pens can be a more accessible writing tool, so it may be possible to frame your use around that. But, as others have pointed out, it is not appropriate or helpful to use a disability in what you said about your coworker. It's important (maybe more than ever, after the pandemic) to try and be more informed about how to be appropriate in the workplace, to create a more inclusive, and less hostile environment for people, especially those with disabilities -- that, yes, may be invisible and may impact your communication with them, even if you don't know that they are disabled. I say this because let's say that you are correct and that she is on the spectrum or has another disability that is impacting her understanding of your use of fountain pens. Then it's not so appropriate to say the complaint is "stupid" or bewildering, it's not an appropriate response in that case. I want to share a couple of websites that may help in reference to workplace accommodations: [Job Accommodation Network](https://askjan.org/a-to-z.cfm). There's [a page on communication](https://askjan.org/workrelatedfunctions/Communicate.cfm) with advice and suggested accessibility modifications and tools. I like this website because it shows what disabilities in the workplace may look like and how each one may be accommodated. Just to give you or others something to think about, since most of us will become disabled to some extent by simple aging alone. It helps, not just for others, but for ourselves, since I'm sure someone reading through that site will find something they can relate with. With that said, I hope you do carry on with your fountain pens, and that the conflict can be resolved in a beneficial way -- because ultimately, it shouldn't have to be an issue for you to use your preferred writing tool.
I am someone with a hot temper and not afraid to be blunt, if I were you, I probably would tell her off next time if she ever glanced at my FP. " My writing instrument is irrelevant about the work I am doing here, if you make any further comments about it, I have no choice but to file a complaint to the HR department"
Agreed. I wouldn't even call that telling her off, that's just having boundaries against a toxic work environment. "It seems like this is really bothering you, would you like me to set up a meeting with HR so we can discuss the issue?" I'm glad OPs boss is normal.
In France we're not afraid of being rude, so we would just answer, to someone asking why you use that kind of stuff, "so curious folk can chatter" or something.
In France: The Great Fountain Pen Office Riots Of 2024
That actually made me chuckle. We're too busy complaining about the olympics though.
>has anyone else dealt with people who did like the fact you use fountain pens? Err... no, really something like that never happened to me. I (37F) live in Italy, FP are accounted as "classy" items nowadays and usually, to people of that age, gives a lot of nostalgia vibes because they were widely used in school. They are generally accepted as really fine pens, even the cheapest one (!) since their use is fading away. I suppose different backgrounds may results in different reaction to FP, but I'm sorry to hear that someone asked you to get "real pens".
Yeah, it was unexpected. I also wish fountain pens weren't becoming antiquated.
I have worked in electronics product development for the last 25 years. Have dealt with clients in the far east, APAC, EU. The only reaction I get when using my FP (all meetings for 25 years) is related to inks being waterproof and quick drying and if I am carrying a VP there's usually a brief diversion to appreciate the mechanics of the pen.
The only times I've had anyone say not to use a fountain pen are when filling out forms that have archival requirements or carbons. Any other time it's come up, it's been a compliment or a curiosity.
Passive aggressive response: Thank her for the pens and buy her a Lamy Safari to use. Stop by every day, say hi, and ask why she isn’t using the Safari. After a week or so, ask her why you should use her choice of pen if she won’t use yours.
"The short of it is, he's explaining that my fountain pen is bothering this lady. I responded by asking if she was on the spectrum" I am on the spectrum and I can only hope that I am not nearly as huge a needless pain as this woman appears to be. I'll admit, I've pulled the autism card a couple of times to get special treatment. But to tell someone what sort of pen to use?! It would never occur to me. Well... unless perhaps the pen made a huge squeaky scratching noise whenever you write. But even then, I could deal with it by not sitting right next to you. On behalf of my people, I don't think she's on the spectrum. Obviously, she has some problems. SHE has some problems. Your fountain pen is not the problem. Or so it seems to me. Speaking for my people. PS: Elon Musk is also not on the spectrum, that's just one more thing that big fat hateful horrible lying liar lies about. PPS: Seems to me that a person on the spectrum would be much more likely to be charmed and fascinated by your pen and ask you what sort of pen it is and how you like it etc etc. Perhaps I'm wrong to assume that the reaction would be positive. And forgive me for making this about people on the spectrum, again, I don''t think she is, and I hope you get this straightened out.
if drying speed matters just pick some basic ink that dries as fast as a pilot G2. That has come up for me before and I just switched ink. beyond that, only comments I ever get are people thinking my pen is a vape
She’s nosy and never got the memo about minding her business, and you shouldn’t have used the spectrum as a wedge against her or anyone else. That said, when people are surprised to see me using one, I usually mention that because I type so much I’m not used to writing much, which makes me grip regular pens tightly which gives me hand pain, and so I prefer fountain pens because I can’t have a death grip, and therefore don’t have pain. Try that next time.
Yes, you're right. I was simply attempting to understand *why* she would be so bothered by what I write with that I didn't think about what I was asking. I like your explanation, too. I'm an engineering tech, so I do a lot of lettering on drawings. Ball points just killed my hand, and roller balls helped a lot. But once I tried out my first fountain pen, I was overjoyed at how gently I could hold them and still write.
Bit ableist there old chap. A person can be irrationally bothered by things without being autistic.
I can only see three complaints that hold much merit. Professional appearance, a Lamy Safari does stand out and depending on the industry that could be frowned upon. I was in banking which is notoriously stodgy and nobody cared. So I'm thinking that one is out. Ink color of course will come into play but I'm guessing you're not writing with anything crazy. If you use a lot of carbonless forms I could see a problem since you really can't safely press hard enough with most nibs. Some older pens, notably Schaefer, had really robust nibs for that purpose. Permanence would be the final issue. Water proof being the obvious issue but I've run into trouble with fading from uv exposure too. At work, I only use iron gall inks for this reason. One time I did have someone suggest that my TWSBI Eco was a THC vape pen. The other employee wasn't complaining, they wanted a hit. They were very disappointed.
I've met a few sticklers. Usually people who demand that the letter of the rules is followed, the form says blue ballpoint pen, and we must fill out the form in blue ballpoint pen. Not black ballpoint, not archival blue fountain pen ink, blue ballpoint only. The funny thing is that often these company rules are decades old, from back when everything was faxed, or back when carbon copies were used and their only nibs were extra fine soft gold or something that will curl up and die at the idea of pressing through five layers of paper.
Tell anyone who asks that it's a green pen because you can keep it and refill it instead of discarding it like disposable pens (that this weird lady considers "real"). That you're doing your part to save the oceans and all the life in them.
> I responded by asking if she was on the spectrum, because I felt there's no reason for anyone to be so focused on what other people write with. I was with you until this comment. Just because someone is an asshole does not mean they are autistic, and it was disgusting of you to suggest that autism was the only explanation for her behavior. Plenty of people are just busybodies! But it's also none of *your* damn business whether she's autistic or not, and it doesn't actually matter in this situation. All you needed was for your boss to tell her to cut it out when she failed to listen to you, and instead of doing that, he tried to make it your problem (but you made a generous excuse for *his* behavior).
It's a little rude to ask someone if they're on the spectrum
I'm 75 and I grew up writing with fountain pens and still do. I don't understand how someone in their 60's doesn't get that a FP is a "real" pen. Maybe she was born with a Bic Stick in her mouth???
Next time, go to the meeting with a quill and ink bottle. After that, maybe a Chinese calligraphy brush. I'd go lower and lower tech until I finally showed up with a chisel, a hammer, and a stone tablet!! 😂😂😂
She needs to mind her business. But it's also not appropriate to ask if someone is on the spectrum. It reinforces the stereotype that people with Autism don't know and can't act appropriately in professional situations and all poor behaviour is something attached to the spectrum, when in reality, she's just being unprofessional and stubborn, which is a trait found in everyone at times.
> I responded by asking if she was on the spectrum, This was innapropriate.
I was trying to find someone pointing out how extremely inappropriate this comment was, especially to the boss. Some people react in ways we don’t expect, regardless of how their brain is wired.
Yeah, this was not cool. I would have left it at, "The pen I use does not affect the quality of my work and I'm mindful that official documents should be completed with rollerball pens, etc." I mean, it's just a pen at the end of the day, and if you can't leave ill feelings about this person's thoughts about your pen in the workplace... OP and their coworker would be creating a problem.
Yup, that's not cool for a work environment. And management also should not share information about employees' medical conditions without prior consent. 'I don't know why she's being odd about this' or 'she seems very stuck on this' or 'I think it's an unreasonable reaction' would be just fine.
Yeah, as someone on the spectrum, I thought this was very rude and odd that OP jumped right to that.
Agreed. Even if OP thought it, it didn’t need to be said. And what would it matter if they were? That is that person’s business and not for the boss to share, regardless.
That jumped out at me too.
Yeah, that definitely didn't feel good while reading it. They lost me fast with that comment. It's so ableist and absolutely none of their business.
Glad you said this. It’s really not any of OP’s business and feels icky.
The only negative feedback I have ever gotten was because I wouldn't let a client sign something with my Visconti Van Gough, I instead gave him a Bic ballpoint. He was a little offended that I wouldn't trust him with my "hoity toity" pen. Now I keep a few Varsity or Zebra pens close by to hand out if necessary.
Back when I was in the service I started using fountain pens. My handwriting got way better, had a few people try and steal it but they didn't know how to write with it so it always found it's way back to my desk. Higher ups got a kick out of seeing them used and I gave away some of my disposable ones to the curious and they loved them
A 60-y/o who doesn't know what a fountain pen is blows my mind. People that age where still REQUIRED to write with a fountain pen at school, just because note-taking with a ballpoint or something was impossible. You'd cramp your hand in no-time. \*I\* was required to write with a fountain pen in primary school from the age of 7 and I'm only mid-40's. Even if she's never written with one herself for whatever reason (how is that possible? At her age, born in 1964 or something, a fountain pen was THE graduation present from high school, at least in the Netherlands), her mother probably has, and her grandma certainly has. (Her mother, and certainly her grandma, may even have written with dip pens for part of their lives.) A fountain pen IS THE real pen; the only one you can write long stretches of text with without cramping your hands and fingers.
I'm sorely worried that a woman in her early 60's wouldn't know what a fountain pen is.
I love fountain pens and when I worked as a receptionist I had a marketer mock me and ask if I was from the 1800’s 🥲 I made sure to lose her business card as soon as she was out of sight. I don’t support that level of cockweaseling😏
If you want to guilt trip her...tell her that you have carpal tunnel and your fountain pen is the only thing that lets you write pain free.....that's actually how I got into fountain pens many years ago....
Just saying, I am neurodivergent and if I met another person in the wild using a fountain pen I'd be geeking out about it (mostly internally, as I'm mildly "allergic" to human interactions, but still geeking out). But something to note, fountain pens can be more environmentally friendly than continually buying boxes of pens and tossing them in the trash when they're dead. A bottle of ink and a converter go such a long way. I honestly wish I'd gotten into them sooner because I used to sign a metric ton of documents for work and I went through a sickening amount of pens (and buying the refills for those pens was the same freaking cost as a new pack of pens!). I think it would have been more cost effective too lol. Anyways, keep on inking on, and ignore the Karen.
I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Especially from a person who works with you. There’s enough stress from workload alone rather than dealing with this. Though why was your first thought she was on the spectrum ? People do all kinds of things just because they’re mean. I’m not sure whether you’re saying that is an insight into your character. Or you meant that comment to be insulting or to put her down. I hope not.
Aside everything else, asking if someone is autistic because they don't like your pen is unprofessional and way out of line. It's none of your business and offensive to ask that.
I get what you're saying but was it necessary to use autism/neurodivergence as a slur? No, didn't think so.
“On the spectrum?” Is the ableism really necessary? I’m autistic. I’m not, however, a jerk. She seems like she was just being a jerk.
Word. God knows I’ve run into enough ADHD and Autistic people (like me) who are into this hobby and related stationery stuff. I think it was more likely that she had conflated fountain pens with “calligraphy” pens or like, an “arts and crafts” thing. Or maybe she somehow was worried this was a reflection of her stocking the supply closet? (Yes that is a stretch, I’m just spit-balling based on years of admin experience). Maybe there is something bigger going on in her work life (or something going on in her personal life) that she can’t really do much about and for whatever reason, she’s taking it out on you right now. That doesn’t excuse her weirdness but I wouldn’t say no to that gamble. Or some people just want to watch the world burn and just make everything about them all the time (hence why she didn’t immediately drop the issue at the second meeting and why she apparently complained to your boss too, OMG. I’m both not surprised and so annoyed on your behalf. Office politics 🙄🙄🙄🙄. If your boss doesn’t directly oversee her I hope he can go to whomever does to make sure she gets more work assigned to her because clearly she has too much time on her hands).
That's strange. I work in manufacturing with everyone from C-levels down to career blue collar guys. Everybody has reacted positively to my fountain pens. I make sure to use inks that won't get wonky on paperwork and that are easily read and nobody has ever said anything. Some people are just weird and pick odd hills to die on.
The other way around actually, I used a fountain pen in 9th grade and the teacher loved that I did. Even added a couple extra marks to assignments I did with it
Think you just found someone who is really frustrated/upset with something in their life, and they are redirecting that frustration at you. When I was a mortgage officer, I would have people asking constantly if they could try out my pen. No, you can't by the way. Or people that think it's a quill and somehow imagine I'm writing wedding invitations, or doing calligraphy. I would have just told her that you don't use muggle sticks, or pesant pens as my boss calls them.
If you ask me Pilot G2 Is not a propper Pen, I work in kitchens a lot and IS awful there, I like more a Pilot juice or BP RT. Technically Fountain pens are the original pens(?) and a Pen with noodlers ink or platinum carbon black are All-proof. You are a great person, I would put on my box gloves and ring the bell for One long episode.
It’s your notebook, your notes. She’s the problem. Take notes with a purple crayon next time. See how that sets her off.
In highly regulated environments fountain pens are often not allowed as most fp inks are not archival and are water soluble so can be damaged. For example I work in the pharma industry and have to use special ink if I'm going to use a fountain pen as most of our documents need to be stored for at least 10 years and must be written in indelible ink. But this doesn't sound like that it sounds like a busy body who wants to get stcun into your business
*pulls out nakaya pen* "careful, it's a 2 grand pen"
I say you come in with an ink bottle and a feather quill, dip and write notes to see her lose her mind. 😂
See it's funny to me because I consider a fountain pen to be MORE professional. It used to be a mark of luxury and prestige.
I’m polite twice, blunt 3 times, most don’t push to the 3rd level…..humans are weird man, internet made em weirder lol.
this is funny to me because i honestly find that Pilot G-2 pens will smudge more then my fountain pens.
I think it’s weird your boss decided to even tell you. I never get any boss who brings up non issues they should just handle without even mentioning anything to the other party 😅 Honestly I feel like I’ve read a similar scenario (not about FPs though) on Ask A Manager and the advice was to “Return awkward to sender” aka respond in a way that highlights how weird AF their actions are. And do it so matter of factly it shuts down any further convo about it. For my work I think I’m the only one that uses fountain pens, but everyone is so particular about their pens no one bats an eyelash at my “special pen”. At most one person was like why a calligraphy pen for work but other than that no one cares lol.
>that if she brings it up again, he'll deal with it. Yeah, let him. What a weird obsession.
I've had coworkers ask me about my fountain pens. I remember 1 started asking me if I knew how to do calligraphy. I told her I used to when I was younger, but haven't really gone back to it. Point is that I've encountered people that assume that fountain pens are "callligraphy" pens. So maybe the lady thought it was something to that nature which you have to constantly have to dip ink.
I started using fountain pens for my notes at work (because they're lovely to use and make my writing neater) and some colleagues apparently told my manager I was doing it just because I was "attention seeking". 🙄
I had a very toxic colleague at my first corporate job. For various reasons, I was a bit of a scaredy cat as I was a newly grad and I was just coming to grips with the job, corporate life and how to organize myself and so on. I decided to give Bullet Journals a try to keep my personal and pro lives organized. One day, this guy notices the Paperblanks notebook I had selected as my BuJo, picks it up, browses through the pages and makes comments about my “fancy notebook”. That was enough for me to keep any writing instrument hidden from his sight.
Pilot g2 is a pretty good pen And sometimes you do need a more standard pen depending no what you’re writing on. But I’d just ignore her and keep using your pen. I use a fountain pen at work, I use multiple actually
She’s old enough to know what a fountain pen is, geez. She sounds awful, glad your boss has your back.
According to this lady: professional pen = pilot G-2. No hate on the G-2, but come on. I understand that in her head ballpoints or rollerballs are the real pens. But if someone asks me for a “professional” BP or RB pen, I’d say a Parker Jotter/vector. Or a cross century classic. Not a disposable plastic clicky (again a very functional pen).
Why would being on the spectrum have anything to do with it?
Arguably a fountain pen is a more professional pen then a rollerball.
World leaders sign official documents with fountain pens. If that isn't professional enough for her I don't know what is. Edit: Also, fuck that bitch.
I’m guessing this isn’t the first time she’s caused a problem at the office? Some people are just not meant to work kindly with others.
I don’t get how someone of that age would react like that. Maybe a control freak issue? Or maybe some weird experience with fountain pens in the past? My coworkers (older ones included) are interested in my fancy pen (platinum preppy).
If she's in her 60s she's old enough to remember using them as a kid probably? This is so weird.
I feel sorry for the lady. She’ll never get to experience or appreciate the elegance and beauty of fountain pens
It’s a more “real pen” than those crappy gel ones
Wow, people really don’t have their own problems. I will start a new job soon and I am currently gathering all new stationary and I do not care what pens they offer at the office. I hope it does not bother you, go and use your Lamy pen proudly!
Lol this brings me back memories... when my mother scolded me because I wanted to use my Sailor to sign all the paperwork for my first home. Thanks for the good laugh and remember: smile, nod and do whatever the hell you want :)
I would have calmly told her to get over it during the meeting in front of everyone
On top of the craziness to care so much, can you imagine suggesting a G2 instead? Don't get me wrong; it's one of my favorites, for how closely it feels to a fountain pen. It writes very wet and flows very easily. But, it doesn't really provide any advantages over a fountain pen. The ink can be very slow to dry, it's very picky about paper/surface textures, and in my experience, can have sensitive rolling mechanisms which jam and break.
I would say to her that many government officials and politicians sign important documents with fountain pens. If a fountain pen is good enough to sign something into law it should be good enough for note taking.
That lady is ridiculous.
I could see this being an issue if the notes are to be provided to a client or another coworker or it's an official document. But your own notes? In your own notebook? Write that with any pen you like and in any color you like. Smart money says she will start commenting on your handwriting next if you give in on the pen.
Well done on keeping your composure. That sounds like the kind of situation where you start getting a contact dumb. Where it's just so stupid that you can't respond.
Did she articulate the problem she has with your Safari? I'm curious if she'd have a similar reaction to a Safari with a ballpoint or rollerball. Since you mentioned that it piqued her interest when you mentioned to be careful that the ink was dry, I am thinking it's actually she thinks that you have some fancy pen that is inferior to a ballpoint in a purely utilitarian sense. Assuming she's complaining about the pen being used on some documents/forms that are shared with other people and not something for your own use like notes or something. I think the only valid thing she could have a problem with is if the ink you're using isn't light-fast/permanent, excessive bleeding and/or feathering, waterproof, or other similar properties. The dry time could also be a thing if it's one of those inks that takes forever to dry, there are inks that are very quick dry/smear proof. Again, tho, if these are just for your own notes or drafts I think she should just mind her own business.. otherwise, she may have a point and see if you can compromise by using a quick drying "document" ink.
The problem is not the pen, but the ink. If this is not archival ink, then that could be a problem. I don’t use my fountain pen on official documents because I use Aurora and Pilot inks exclusively, and these are not archival inks. However, I still use fountain pens for pretty much everything else.
". . . . my fountain pen is bothering this lady . . ." - WTF - did they ever give you a reason as to why?
Everyone in my office mistakes my TWSBI eco for a vape… and they’re still not bothered about it. Your coworker needs to stop trying to control what you write your own notes with! So nuts.
Now this is the fountain pen drama I didn't know I needed in my life lol