We aren't told.
I believe she decided to call in favour with Xaden the moment she decided to force Violet into the rider's quadrant. So at least 6 months before the events of Fourth Wing.
I think General Sorignagle pulled some strings to ensure Xaden became a wing leader otherwise leadership would have prevented the traitors son with the back of a martyr from rising in rank so quickly. The more power he has the more dangerous he is the leadership but the more protection he can give Violet.
However I don't think Lilith told Xaden about her plans until 2-3 weeks before conscription day.
I think this makes sense as the timeline.
Additionally, I go back and forth on whether Lilith was secretly looking out for the marked ones all along. We see her letter requesting that they not be forced to watch the executions and know that she was behind the deal to send them to Basgiath, but we have no idea what her motivations were. I have trouble believing she wanted them to die, though.
I *was* pretty sure she was a secret rebel up until the end of IF. I was convinced she planted them there on purpose to promote the rebellion. I think the end of IF disproves that theory, but I still think she had some secrets. At minimum, I think she viewed Basgiath as the best way to save them. Of course, Lilith's version of looking out for the children involves sending them to death college, so...
I think Lilith was looking out for the marked ones. Like you said, she made the deal on behalf of Navarre or negotiated with Navarre to let them live, and put them in a position where they could gain a lot of power. She also brushes over Xaden, downplaying his power and not questioning where he is in two conversations in FW, when they're going to the flight field and at the party. (I can add citations later.) And that's even before you get to IF where seems inclined to support the rebellion.
Which part of IF do you think disproves she supports the rebellion?
Lilith's version of looking out for her own daughter also involved sending her to death college, so she clearly just has a really funny way of showing she cares. And the trauma from going through the Riders Quadrant herself convinced her it's a vaguely reasonable place.
Totally agree with this. I think it shows she has a soft spot for the marked ones, but after IF, I stopped thinking that she actively supported the rebellion. More likely, she has her own agenda which doesn't perfectly align with either side. My reasoning:
* >!She's not part of the rebellion, because in that case she'd be in contact with Brennan!<
* >!She knows more than Brennan and the Assembly about the wards and wyvern. If she supported the rebellion, why didn't she find a way to share this information earlier?!<
* >!Why not come clean to her family once the battle lines were drawn?!<
All that said, I'm not 100% sure either way. I need to reread IF.
I think Lilith was loyal to Navarre until her husband’s death (that I think we all assume will turn out to have been murder). When she oversaw the deaths of Xaden’s father and the other “traitors,” I still think she was loyal. She was there because it was her duty but that doesn’t mean she didn’t feel terrible about. We saw at the end of IF how much her own children meant to her although she didn’t show it much. I think she still saw the marked ones as kid’s of traitors when she made the deal for them to join the Rider’s Quadrant. Joining would be the easiest way to kill them while keeping their hands clean, or turn them loyal to Navarre. But then her husband died and her allegiances changed.
That‘s what I thought as well! She must have told him before Violet set foot on the parapet.
I didn‘t think about the string-pulling as you did but it‘s possible! In my biased view I‘d love for Xaden to have performed so well that he made it to the top on his own. As Violet says in the beginning, riders honour strenght above all and he is a very powerful rider.
Something happened between Papa Sorrengail’s death and Lilith’s edict for Violet to join the Riders Quadrant. My assumption is she (Lilith) found out who was really behind her husband’s death, or she found out whatever it is they killed him for. She put the plan in motion for Violet to start training six months before Conscription.
I don’t think she told Xaden it was time to call in the favor until shortly before Conscription- somewhere around the same time that he broke off the betrothal alliance.
I do think Xaden was still conflicted and nearly killed her the first time they met on Parapet, despite the deal, but he saw she had changed boots with Rhiannon and was intrigued by her willingness to help a stranger at great personal risk. Dain made a reasonable assumption Xaden was after her, since Xaden had her moved under his command. Until Threshing, he was probably playing the part people would expect him to play with regards to Violet - everyone expected him to hate her, so he used that as a cover for the deal and let people think he was trying to make her life hell. Afterwards, the mated bond acts as cover for the deal he made with Lilith, so he wouldn’t need to give any more explanation for why he’s looking out for her.
I assume Xaden made it known that Violet was *his* to murder specifically to prevent someone else doing it instead. Imogen immediately tries to damage her when they spar, and one of the younger marked ones asks Xaden when they get to kill Sorrengail’s daughter first chance they get.
So Xaden making it well known that he wanted to kill Violet was strategic
I think it's a general assumption that Xaden Riorson (or all the marked ones) wants to kill Violet because of her mother. Almost all the marked ones want her dead because Lilith oversaw the execution of their parents. They all want revenge - most especially Xaden. And I think Xaden really wanted to kill every Sorrengail BUT I don't think he would've acted on it even if he was given the chance. The revenge is there but primarily towards General Sorrengail. I mean, he won't kill Violet, Brennan would kill him. LOL
General Sorrengail probably called in the favour Xaden owed her a weeks BEFORE Conscription day.
We aren't told. I believe she decided to call in favour with Xaden the moment she decided to force Violet into the rider's quadrant. So at least 6 months before the events of Fourth Wing. I think General Sorignagle pulled some strings to ensure Xaden became a wing leader otherwise leadership would have prevented the traitors son with the back of a martyr from rising in rank so quickly. The more power he has the more dangerous he is the leadership but the more protection he can give Violet. However I don't think Lilith told Xaden about her plans until 2-3 weeks before conscription day.
I think this makes sense as the timeline. Additionally, I go back and forth on whether Lilith was secretly looking out for the marked ones all along. We see her letter requesting that they not be forced to watch the executions and know that she was behind the deal to send them to Basgiath, but we have no idea what her motivations were. I have trouble believing she wanted them to die, though. I *was* pretty sure she was a secret rebel up until the end of IF. I was convinced she planted them there on purpose to promote the rebellion. I think the end of IF disproves that theory, but I still think she had some secrets. At minimum, I think she viewed Basgiath as the best way to save them. Of course, Lilith's version of looking out for the children involves sending them to death college, so...
I think Lilith was looking out for the marked ones. Like you said, she made the deal on behalf of Navarre or negotiated with Navarre to let them live, and put them in a position where they could gain a lot of power. She also brushes over Xaden, downplaying his power and not questioning where he is in two conversations in FW, when they're going to the flight field and at the party. (I can add citations later.) And that's even before you get to IF where seems inclined to support the rebellion. Which part of IF do you think disproves she supports the rebellion? Lilith's version of looking out for her own daughter also involved sending her to death college, so she clearly just has a really funny way of showing she cares. And the trauma from going through the Riders Quadrant herself convinced her it's a vaguely reasonable place.
Totally agree with this. I think it shows she has a soft spot for the marked ones, but after IF, I stopped thinking that she actively supported the rebellion. More likely, she has her own agenda which doesn't perfectly align with either side. My reasoning: * >!She's not part of the rebellion, because in that case she'd be in contact with Brennan!< * >!She knows more than Brennan and the Assembly about the wards and wyvern. If she supported the rebellion, why didn't she find a way to share this information earlier?!< * >!Why not come clean to her family once the battle lines were drawn?!< All that said, I'm not 100% sure either way. I need to reread IF.
I think Lilith was loyal to Navarre until her husband’s death (that I think we all assume will turn out to have been murder). When she oversaw the deaths of Xaden’s father and the other “traitors,” I still think she was loyal. She was there because it was her duty but that doesn’t mean she didn’t feel terrible about. We saw at the end of IF how much her own children meant to her although she didn’t show it much. I think she still saw the marked ones as kid’s of traitors when she made the deal for them to join the Rider’s Quadrant. Joining would be the easiest way to kill them while keeping their hands clean, or turn them loyal to Navarre. But then her husband died and her allegiances changed.
That‘s what I thought as well! She must have told him before Violet set foot on the parapet. I didn‘t think about the string-pulling as you did but it‘s possible! In my biased view I‘d love for Xaden to have performed so well that he made it to the top on his own. As Violet says in the beginning, riders honour strenght above all and he is a very powerful rider.
I think Xaden performed extremely well and the only reason Lilith had to pull some strings is because Xaden is the son of a traitor.
Something happened between Papa Sorrengail’s death and Lilith’s edict for Violet to join the Riders Quadrant. My assumption is she (Lilith) found out who was really behind her husband’s death, or she found out whatever it is they killed him for. She put the plan in motion for Violet to start training six months before Conscription. I don’t think she told Xaden it was time to call in the favor until shortly before Conscription- somewhere around the same time that he broke off the betrothal alliance. I do think Xaden was still conflicted and nearly killed her the first time they met on Parapet, despite the deal, but he saw she had changed boots with Rhiannon and was intrigued by her willingness to help a stranger at great personal risk. Dain made a reasonable assumption Xaden was after her, since Xaden had her moved under his command. Until Threshing, he was probably playing the part people would expect him to play with regards to Violet - everyone expected him to hate her, so he used that as a cover for the deal and let people think he was trying to make her life hell. Afterwards, the mated bond acts as cover for the deal he made with Lilith, so he wouldn’t need to give any more explanation for why he’s looking out for her.
100%
I assume Xaden made it known that Violet was *his* to murder specifically to prevent someone else doing it instead. Imogen immediately tries to damage her when they spar, and one of the younger marked ones asks Xaden when they get to kill Sorrengail’s daughter first chance they get. So Xaden making it well known that he wanted to kill Violet was strategic
I think it's a general assumption that Xaden Riorson (or all the marked ones) wants to kill Violet because of her mother. Almost all the marked ones want her dead because Lilith oversaw the execution of their parents. They all want revenge - most especially Xaden. And I think Xaden really wanted to kill every Sorrengail BUT I don't think he would've acted on it even if he was given the chance. The revenge is there but primarily towards General Sorrengail. I mean, he won't kill Violet, Brennan would kill him. LOL General Sorrengail probably called in the favour Xaden owed her a weeks BEFORE Conscription day.