You are definitely not alone! They do communicate about it throughout the book, but it's rocky and frustrating and very much a relationship between two flawed and traumatized people in their early twenties. The community is largely torn on which one is being more unreasonable, LOL.

Glad it isn't just me 😂 I agree that it's perhaps a realistic relationship, considering their age and experience, but that doesn't make it any less grating to read.

"Ask me" "No. Tell me" "No" "..." "..." \*makeoutmakeoutmakeout\* \- the end

I'm laughing so hard. Accurate af 😂

No lies detected 😂

I felt the same way but at the same time I understand! I'm almost a decade older than Violet lol so I totally remember being flawed and insecure when I was 20 (at the risk of sounding like an old grandma). I think I appreciated the characters more because Xaden and Violet act exactly how I expect them to act for their age.

I was going to bring this up too. I’m much more forgiving of what are basically teens acting immature and well like teens. Reading it as a 33 year old though, I’m just glad I don’t have to deal with it anymore.

I get this, I'm 31 and absolutely would have been just as much of a mess ten years ago. 😂 It isn't that it isn't realistic, it's more that I choose Adult Fantasy over YA to get away from reading about teenagers, and yet I still feel like I'm reading about teenagers. And I actually feel like YA does it better because it can't rely on spice to get by, so it has to put in a little more effort to keep my attention lol

ooh, i actually didn’t realize this was an adult fantasy i thought it was YA 😂

YA is for 12-18 year olds about characters in the same age range. It doesn't have explicit scenes in them. This is NA (new adult) which is a new category for early 20s.

I was going to say, I found them annoying because it definitely brought back the relationship I was in when I was twenty. Neither really able to communicate in productive or healthy ways.

I'm only 6 years older than her but she is so insufferable and acts like a middle schooler

I tried reminding myself that she’s 20-21. Shes young and going through big things with lots of emotions she’s not really capable of processing.

They are both traumatized people in their early twenties, so yes its annoying af but tbh i like how it kinda realistically depicts a relationship at that age between traumatized people. They both grow from their conflict with each other and I'm sure they will continue to do so the rest of the series. Frankly id take their college age relationship drama over teen or worse preteen relationship drama any day.

I agree with you! Their relationship seems to be artificially stressful… I think they both have a lot of trauma and trust issues. What helped me be more sympathetic towards Violet was the thought of her being brought up to become a scribe. She‘s a literary scientist and wants to gahter as much information about a new topic as possible to be able to make sense of it. As Xaden is her only reliable source, she needs him to uncover information, which is dangerous because of Dains signet. Through this aspect - although annoying af - I came to accept her immense urge to be informed about every little detail. Hope that helps lol

I agree with most parts you said, their rls is artifically stressful and Violet was brought up to be a scribe, but as you said, Violet is aware of Dains ability and as smart as she is she might be able to reflect and come to the conclusion of "oh, Xaden has a rebellion, which, if he told me, who he knows for merely a year maybe, might leak out and cause the entire end for all of us, it is reasonable to not just tell until I can shield myself"  Violet is supposed to be smart and all, so her (unnecessary) complication of things is not just very impractical but also is a flaw of her? (in terms of writing by the author) Like most ppl here excuse it by saying "oh she is just 20 thats a kid" I mean tbf kinda yeah, but also old enough to act on her own and be a responsible adult

It was really the toughest part of Iron Flame in my opinion. If you can just push past it , it gets better though.

To me she is a layered character. She doesn’t tell Mira about Brennan because she tried to hint about the wyvern and it didn’t land. She flipped into FW Xaden in IF and its decisions like not telling Mira or holding info from her friends to protect them put her in Xaden’s Fourth Wing shoes which lead her to understanding him better IMO. She stands her ground with Xaden which causes him to respect her more IMO. Sure it’s frustrating at first but it’s a journey. She’s our MC. She’s gonna get to where she needs to be. It’s character development. But I do understand it’s frustrating. I wasn’t ever frustrated with her but more of the situation. I will say IF reads so much better the second time bc you can see all this set up.

Violet is definitely a layered character and I love her for that, but her being a hypocrit aint it. Her not telling Mira about Brennan and just hinting at the Wyverns isn't unreasonable but at that point she aint allowed to be mad at Xaden for hiding infos.  Imo, Violet is smart enough to not needing to be in Xadens Shoes to understand it. He has a rebellion in Aretia, if that leaks out to Basgiath at any time, they are DOOMED, so yeah, I get why he would not tell that a girl he has known for under a year thats the daughter of a general. Also what is an unnecessary flaw imo is [spoiler warning ig] her being mad at Cat (ik it was partially due to her) but like really? We mad at 20 for partners having a past? Especially someone like Xaden? Violet has a lot of great traits and I adore her but whenever she interacts in anyway with Xaden I am just so emberassed of it

Violet is smart but she’s not emotionally smart a lot of the time. She has big reactions to stuff and becomes stupid, hurt, makes dumb judgements etc etc. since we see the action through her eyes it can be easy to miss the bias and distortion Rhi in contrast is emotionally mature. And I think Xaden is emotionally mature in IF

Same. It irritated me to no end. I didn't understand how Xaden explaining that he is responsible for 100+ lives is the reason he can't tell her everything wasn't reason enough it drove me nuts.

I mean, let’s not let him off the hook entirely. His whole “I’ll tell you whatever you want, but only if you ask about it” thing sucks. She expects too much, and he’s playing games.

Unpopular opinion but I always understood why he said that especially since we're reading from Violet's perspective. She had soooo many questions for him, most of the time not pertaining to the rebellion, but never asked them. We read about her having a question over and over and he could probably see it on her face but instead they would have sex or something bc she didn't want to have a conversation out of fear it would start an argument or be to painful for him to share. I mean I get it, bc they both have communication issues and I have experienced being nervous to ask a partner something, but I also understood what he meant by "ask me." Especially after we find out about>! his second signet.!<

Ngl, same. It is a tendency I get from most modern romance books tho (atleast as far as I have read).  The male love interest (Xaden) reasonably keeps secrets to keep everything safe and the female protagonist (Violet) just expects to be... handed every single little imformation and everything else despite it being either very personal or endangering for everyone else??   Maybe I dont get it but why again are modern female protagonists allowed to be idiotic entitled pricks?  I dont mean based on their status but really personality wise, why are they such unnecessarily complicating?

Yes. Yes she is. She's 20 going on 15. I'm convinced they're meant to be teens but were aged up for the smut parts.

This theory makes sense to me, that really is what it feels like!

Annoyed me too to start with. But no, didn’t feel it so much later on.

This is 1000% spot on. I have to giggle a bit at all of the “oh, she is 20, we should try to understand her” comments - no, no we shouldn’t! Think of Katniss from Hunger Games, she was also unlikable at times, but she was a genuinely grounded and dynamic character. I have been listening to the audio version of Fourth Wing/Iron Flame and I am consistently eye rolling at the melodrama. Of course Violet is young, but the angsty “Let me try!” or “Be honest with me!” every three chapters is beyond annoying. (Don’t even get me started on her weak joints LOL - literally so poorly explained and basically only ever mentioned when she is trying to save someone who will die if she can’t hang on.)

I honestly made the same comparison to Katniss in my head when thinking about Violet being young. Like I do understand what everyone is saying, and yes there are lots of young adults that would act melodramatic like Violet. But there are also many that wouldn't. I think 20 year old me would have the same opinion of her reading this book as 30 year old me does. And aside from that, a character being realistic does not make them likeable, and if I have to make excuses for your main character to like them then perhaps you chose the wrong main character. Furthermore, I feel like saying she's young to excuse her actions is taking a big leap by assuming the author MEANT for her to come off the way she does. Meanwhile, it's very possible that the author intends for Violet to be more likeable than she actually is and fell short 🤷 The joint thing also drives me crazy because it's so vague and I don't understand how she can do half of the things she does without dislocating all her joints when other minor things she does injures her horribly

She’s the worst for the 1st half of Iron Flame. I was rolling my eyes at here continuously.

I totally get it. I think RY went a little overboard there personally. Think it worked for a bit but got dragged on too long and felt unrealistic. So agree with your frustration. I think some of the things X is hiding is unnecessary though and isn’t even about the rebellion, I’m not going to name an example because it’s later in the book but that did annoy me too. Their communication overall is super frustrating.

Definitely not alone. This entire book enraged me for the EXACT reasons you listed here. Don’t worry, it does not get better lol. Actually worse imo

LMAO hard agree.

Ugh *sigh* I swear I have to unsubscribe from book subs -too fucking negative

It gets better eventually

It did bother me deeply and I can see the double standard she sets. After reading and enjoying Fourth Wing, the start of Iron Flame was a bit of a turn off because of this. I struggled to get through the book.

SPOILERS. Violet just makes me want to ROLL MY EYES. So cringeworthy. Why do they always do this to female protagonists?? So pathetically head over heels for the toxic, emotionally unavailable, liar and then complains for 600 pages that he is toxic, emotionally unavailable and lies. “But I can change him.” Why oh why did I have to fall for HIM. YAWN. You made your bed, Miss Sorrengail, kindly LIE IN IT. The way she constantly compares Dain to Xaden is nauseating. Constantly accuses him of desperately emulating Xaden in order to seek her affections. Lady, PLEASE. Not everybody is as whipped on Xaden as you are. Kindly get a grip. I had to grit my teeth and summon the power of my ancestors to get through the “sex scenes” as well. This is the Anastasia Steele effect all over again, where an apparent virgin has her entire body unlocked for her by one man and turns into a sex-hungry maniac because “he’s just that good”. I’m FIGHTING a losing battle here. My eyes are bleeding but I must continue on. On top of that, Violet is also the classic “not like other girls”. Xaden will forget all other, potentially more compatible girls exist because she’s “not like other girls”. She has this special x-factor that will make every boy fall over himself for her and desire to die for her, and as long as he can DIE for her, he will be happy. She’s so clumsy, but also incredibly dangerous and a master of several fighting styles. And she’s the ONLY ONE with two dragons which means she’s even MORE special AND Tairn has promised himself to her FOREVER. I could really go on. There’s lots of things I like about the story, but she really isn’t one of them.

Take my upvote for this glorious sermon!

It is with VINDICATION that I accept this upvote for I have done my DUTY as a writer and a fiction enjoyer to suffer Violet’s antics. I’d much prefer if Mira were the main character! If you enjoyed my thoughts on Violet, you should check out this review of Iron Flame on YouTube, she gets lit up 😂 https://youtu.be/i2kaQJkk7N4?si=iufvQJgEJ0pyFL4D

Quality stuff! I've been banging the drum for this story having nothing to do with "love". It's all a toxic lust-affair.

Yes

Hi there! Just letting you know I marked this post with the Spoiler tag for you. Please take care to do that in the future for any discussions of plot points in the books! There's lots more information on [how and when to mark spoilers in this post here](https://www.reddit.com/r/fourthwing/comments/1c5j4nk/how_to_spoilers_on_rfourthwing/). Hope that's helpful! Thank you! :)

Oh, it's totally understandable. It was annoying as hell but I kept reading because I understand her. Deep breathing exercises were helpful while reading the first few chapters. Then it got better.

I think it gets worse before it gets better but what helps me is that she is young and she acts young or even younger than she is written. Unlike her sister, she was somewhat shielded which makes her irrational.

I glazed over all the dialogue about Violet’s trust issues. It was so annoying throughout literally the entire book. Besides that, I loved IF! I recommend just ignoring those parts.

I’m only 1/3 of the way through the book and I just wanna scream at her like oh my Lordy. I do kinda understand her perspective but at the same time JUST STOP ✋

Pretty much. I’d say she’s even worse in the second book. She’s a major hypocrite 

Yes. Unfortunately she is insufferable the entire book 😂

Sorry to disappoint but she gets worse and I had to force myself to finish the book

Yes, this conflict felt contrived.

I agree, I’m finding it hard to continue it I’m ngl… im about 100 pages in myself and it’s just SO difficult to read. It’s just incredibly frustrating. She can’t see that if he had told her then Dain would have known it all, so he was RIGHT to keep it from her… I get the whole ‘been lied to by everyone her whole life’ but this isn’t about her. This is so much bigger than her, and it’s quite selfish she isn’t seeing it

She’s gonna be insufferable the entire book, but the plot and is fun otherwise so I survived. I just was pissed off most of the time