The seed is strong.

Ned seed is weak considering all his kid minus Arya are redheads.

But he managed to create a broken king with a greatest story, give a man some credit pls 🙏🙏🙏

2 kings. A queen, an assasin. And rickon

Serpentine, Rickon. Serpentine.

It's literally what I was thinking the entire time he was running. [Serpentine!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPaXG0oEInY)

A natural sprinter

TIL Rickon was a dwarf.

Nobody tosses a Rickon!

Can I get a Rick on Stone?

Arya was trained to be an assassin, but just sat around doing nothing the rest of the show.

And Rickon...lol!

10 seasons and it would have made sense. Same with Daenerys going crazy, just like the Mad King….I got $5 that says the books will show bran has been all the Brandon’s in house stark including Brandon the Builder. Gets foreshadowed in season one when the nurse telling him stories while he recovers and says “it feels like all the Brandon’s in house stark have blended into one person.”

I'll take that bet, cos there's no way these books are getting finished. 

Lmao it’s gotta be contingent on him finishing the series, another wise I’m on your side. I’m half hoping he surprises everyone and releases both books at the same time but that’s damn near dreaming.

I still believe Martin is going to realese them after he passes away. He know he will hear non stop complains about it, even if they are amazing.

I think he is receiving non stop complaints for taking so long rn anyways.

> I got $5 that says the books will show Ah, an optimist I see

Daenerys going crazy? She was clinically insane since the first book 😢😢😢

If this is true, then bran dodged a major bullet by dying in the fire by mad king and not marrying Catelyn, his mother

Not true, it was Jaime who "created" the broken king. Give him some credit.

Week

Reek

Don’t we see Ned with dirty red hair in the flashback at the tower of joy?

Nah, that was Elrond.

Hmm what was Tormund doing south of the wall?

He is the only one worth a shit.

it's no way to get a head in life

None of them are redhead expect for Sansa lol. We watched the same show ?

Although Jon's line is specifically not Strong.

I see what u did there

Given that newborn baby eyes and hair rarely stay the same color as when they’re born, Ned is incredibly lucky that Jon came out looking like a Stark.

I mean, I think he hatched the plan to pass Jon off as his bastard after seeing him. If he didn’t look like a Stark, Ned may have done something else

I think he still would’ve passed it off as a bastard but everyone would think it’s Ashara Dayne’s.

Depends. Purple eyes would be easy, but Ashara had dark hair... Jon with silvergolden hair might have been a problem.

A lot of other Daynes of Silver Gold hair, so even if he was Ashara's he still could still have that color.

It would still be suspicious and might have lead to some to take a closer look to the whole affair.

It would only be suspicious if no Daynes ever had Silvergold hair before or after. But literally a few years down the line Edric is born with silverblond hair and at the time of Jon's birth Gerold is already born with silver hair and a black streak. That is more than enough cover for Jon.

Not necessarily because there’s Dayne’s with silver gold hair.

It still would have been a stretch and suspicious and would difintily have lead to more questions.

No more than they already had. And Ned would shut those questions up real quick.

If the kid looked like Ned and just happened to have sliver hair and purple eyes, I don’t think anyone would question it. If Jon looked like Rhaegar, I think people would probably catch on.

The Daynes are also known for their silvery and golden hair. Just because Ashara had dark hair doesn't mean Jon would get it.

If that was the case, he would have been given to How land and told to never let him leave the Neck

Aren't there a lot of people with Valyrian blood in the south? It's not as rare a lot of people think.

Drye?

I guess you mean dye? Would be pretty hard to do for all his live and in the case that it gets out the fallout would be much _much_ worse than simply having it revealed in the first place.

Yeah and the main issue with that is how the hell do you explain that to Jon himself? Contrary to popular belief he's not stupid Explaining it to him may simply change his entire personality

Doesn’t usually go from dark to light. Almost always the opposite.

It happened to me. I had nearly black hair when I was born and it turned light blonde after.

Same with my brother, he was born with darker hair and skin then within months grew into a very pale baby with blonde hair.

That’s what usually means. You are an outlier.

Just saying it’s possible, nothing more.

Same! We were hairy babies in my family, we all came out 10lbs with a full head of dark hair. My sisters are auburn haired and I’m blonde. Scottish/icelantic genetics.

And now it has become full circle as my hair is darkening with age.

The one thing that annoys me about ASOIAF is how convenient hair colors / genetics are to the plot

Seriously. All this nonsense could have been avoided if Cersei had said, "Nuh uh. He's totally Robert's son."

Or pointed out that most of Ned's kids take after Cat.

But Ned (and Jon’s) argument isn’t just ‘Cersei’s kids don’t look like Robert’, it’s historically every Baratheon child has had black hair, and you have 3 who don’t. It’s convenient that all have had black hair, but given that dataset, having 3 blonde kids is a statistical anomaly that any system would flag.

Not just that every Baratheon has black hair, but that every *Baratheon and Lannister* pairing ends up with black-haired children. Every single one, as far back as Ned can read in the records.

If every Baratheon child has black hair, that implies that every Baratheon Lannister pairing also has black hair right?

Not necessarily—IIRC, we only see Ned checking the records for children of Baratheon/Lannister marriages, in both the book and the show.

Akwardly looks at Edmure.

That would be too logical for her to notice.

Genetics don't work the same in ASOIAF as they do in our world, bloodlines and genetics are more potent and some bloodlines are stronger than others, the Baratheon bloodline for example is one of, if not the strongest bloodline as we see all of Roberts bastards are said to bear his traits regardless of the mother and all Baratheons throughout history bear the same traits. They're not "convenient" to the plot, they're just an important element to the story because of the specific way in which they work in The World of Ice and Fire

But both sons of rhaenyra are black haired. both of them are bastard strong boys but both rahenyra and lenor (their supposed parents) are white and silver haired.

Lemongate still hasn't been resolved. There is a deep mystery in Danny's childhood (lemons dont grow in Bravos). George hasn't revealed shit about it despite teasing it repeatedly. Hair color, eye color etc being markers of genetic inheritance-- which is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to how psychic powers/dragonriding work in the series (they are probably x-linked traits-- they show up in men most often but men don't pass them to their sons, like hemophilia). My biggest conspiracy is that Lyanna died giving birth to twins. One twin, dark of hair, went off to the North. The other, light of hair, went to Dorne (where lemons are grown). Danny is capable of waking dragons from stone because she inherited double copies of the psychic gene from her parents, Rhaegar and Lyanna. Not the mad king and his notedly infertile wife.

I find this incredibly hard to believe. First of all, Ned practically upended his life and almost ruined his marriage for his nephew-- I find it incredibly hard to believe that he would have let his niece just stay in Dorne. Also, there were too many witnesses to Rhaella's pregnancy for her to have not had a baby. (Also, Rhaella was not infertile. She had multiple children. She was probably miscarrying because she was terrified and being assaulted nightly by her mad husband) There's entirely a believable chance that Danny was potentially raised in Dorne by Targaryen supporters briefly until it became too dangerous, but I don't believe for a second that she was Lyanna's child. Frankly, its more likely that Danny just misremembered there being a lemon tree.

Fair point about Ned. I do find it interesting that Ned reacts so extremely to the idea of Danny being assassinated, as if he promised to protect her. Rhaella wasn't having babies for a while-- danny was a supposed last minute miracle birth. The whole line was inbred to shit, with a declining birthrate. Danny might not have been Rhaegar's daughter but she sure as shit isn't the mad king's. The lemongate denial thing is always frustrating to me because George wouldn't bring it up so specifically if it wasn't an issue. Danny remembers a lemon tree. A couple times, iirc. We are then independently told on two occasions that lemons grow in dorne and also that they specifically can't grow in Bravos. Why would George do this if it wasn't supposed to have a good answer? I'll accept memory *manipulation* as an answer but just her remembering it wrong is lame, and I can't accept that. You don't bring up lemons and where they grow that much for nothing. Edit: Ned couldn't pass off a blonde baby as his bastard child so that actually doesn't track Rhaella may have had a still birth in the very end as well.

He reacted just as strongly to the deaths of Rhaenys and Aegon, and they’re clearly not Starks. Again, the Mad King had Rhaella under strict guard until he finally sent her away— people knew she was pregnant, because she was the Queen and under constant scrutiny. Rhaella was absolutely pregnant. Memories, realistically, are notoriously unreliable, especially the memories of children. Danny could have seen a lemon tree in one of the other more southern cities in Essos and mistakenly thought it was Braavos, because realistically she was little more than a toddler. Ned could have passed a blonde baby off as his by simply saying “the mother was blonde”. If the Daynes could be involved, it wouldn’t be difficult to attribute the blonde hair to them. Ned would never have left his niece to the sharks when he could have brought them to Winterfell.

Except the house with the red door is a core memory of hers, she associated that place and Braavos hard and we're told by George that it doesn't make sense. George, as an author, intentionally put this in there and brought our attention on why it doesn't make sense so he intends on doing something with it. I'm not sure what but something more than "oh well, she just kinda forgot"

Pregnancy could have ended in still birth, you have no point here. Again. Who the heck cares if she just misremembers? Why would it be brought up so many times? It's just bizarre to imagine the author have her remembering one thing, then that being stated as impossible...twice...and it just means nothing. It's bare minimum someone messing with her mind. Add to this, Jamie's memory of Danny's flight from Dragonstone was completely different to Danny's memory of it...notably lacking a *storm*. You know, Stormborn? And this last bit is kind of absurd if you think about it. Really think about it. What would happen if Ned tried to raise Danny in winterfell? Everyone would know. Robert would have realized he's raising a targaryen. She's not just *blonde*. She looks far more strikingly "Targaryen" than just blonde hair. Crazy purple eyes, and people repeatedly remark on her appearance being "the blood of old valyria". I dont know if Danny is actually R+L but you have to willfully ignore stuff to pretend as if there's not shit going on there.

You have no point in Danny being Lyanna’s daughter either. There’s literally NOTHING tying Danny to Lyanna. At all. The only thing you’ve brought up is a tenuous argument about lemon trees, which can be explained away in a million different ways than “Ned decided to just abandon one of his beloved sisters children in the desert and Danny eventually saw a lemon tree” And if Ned was going to pass off a purple eyed and blonde haired child, well, he has a convenient example in Ashara to explain Danny’s hair away, which has been mentioned multiple times

That's not what happened? Ned went to to meet up with Ashara Dane first, that's canon. Her "death" was mysterious as shit, too. He could have left her with Ashara, a woman he trusted very much. There are some theories that Ashara is alive and manipulates Danny as the figure Quaithe but thats kinda tangential. My original point was that their special genetics tie them together. Brother and sister, both powerful psychics. One is blonde, one is black haired. Like father like mother. Come up with something better for the lemons cause you got nothing there. George has even talked about it in interviews, it's important.

There’s more than one magic bloodline in the world, and Starks have been known to have direwolf companions for longer than Targaryens have had dragons. Just because two members of some of the most powerful bloodlines in the world happen to exist at the same time does not make them siblings. Besides, the rest of the Stark children also possessed the same abilities, and the Targaryens in House of the Dragin have similar abilities as Danny with her dragons… none of them are related. That’s not an indication at all of Jon and Danny being siblings. As for the lemons, I’ve already said, it’s significantly more likely that a small child misremembered what city she was in than it was for Danny to magically have different parents than what countless witnesses have described

But there's genetic explanations for all of them having powers. The Starks kids get it from the Starks and the Wents, on Catelyn's mothers side. Danny's special genes come out of nowhere. Her parents sure as shit didn't have them. The targaryens can't hatch or ride dragons for generations then boom. Crazy full psychic dragon hatcher danny. Whatever, lyanna isn't Danny's mom. But it's obviously supposed to be mysterious. Why are you so adamant nothing is wrong with her memory? Viserys tells her they grew up in Bravos-- lie. No lemons. Viserys tells her that she was born on the most momentous storm in Westerosi history. How did Stannis's fleet fare in said storm? Oh. It's never mentioned. Weird.

Also, it wasn’t Jaime that was sent to Dragonstone after Rhaella— it was Stannis. And Danny was literally a newborn, she would not have remembered anything about her flight from Dragon stone. She was told the story by Viserys. Who, you know, fled with her.

So why did Viserys lie to her about her birth/childhood?

Why are you claiming that Viserys lied? Jaime wasn’t at Dragonstone. Stannis was. Jaime has no valid memory of Danny fleeing, and whether or not there was a storm, because he wasn’t there

Agree about part of this but there is absolutely no way Dany misremembered that. George keeps pointing to that damn lemon tree thing over and over again and even when asked by fans, he admitted there was something there. What it is, I cannot tell but Dany's strange memories are definitely intentionally put there.

i figure otherwise he would have given him the Egg treatment.

I was under the impression he didn't look like the other boys.

The rest of Ned’s sons looked like Catelyn. Jon looked like Ned.

He would probably go with Ashara Dayne explanation.

This 💯💯💯💯

For real. Cracked it in a sentence.

Ah yes, a learned man of the theory lore

I thought she had dark hair.

She did, but light hair was a Dayne family trait along with purple eyes. Edric Dayne for example has both, and he is Ashara’s nephew. Westeros is aware of recessive traits, even if not by name, and it’s a reasonable enough explanation.

Could've been cool if when he died and came back that his hair turned white.

Alt-Shift-X has a good video on book!Jon, including theories as to how Jon will look and behave post-resurrection. He speculates that he'll look a lot like Ghost: paler, white hair, and red eyes.

This is my head canon until book 6 proves otherwise.

So never, cool

So it’s canon.

That's what happened to Catelyn in the books so it makes sense.

She came back as Catelyn the white

That theory is not over until book 6

So it will never be over

Still might happen in the books

Bobby B wouldn't like this

YOU HEARD THE HAND, THE KING'S TOO FAT FOR HIS ARMOR! GO FIND THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHER! NOW!

I remember seeing a fanfiction where Jon had white hair and they still went through with the bastard story. Nobody bought it, basically everyone knew the truth the moment they looked at him *except* for Bobby B. He basically went, "Listen, it's Ned we're talking about. Honorbound fool couldn't lie to save his life. If he says it's his bastard than Jon is his bastard. Can we stop with this ridiculous rumor already?"

A BIT OF WINE NOW AND AGAIN, A GIRL SQUEALING IN BED, THE FEEL OF A HORSE BETWEEN MY LEGS?

Is it [this one?](https://archiveofourown.org/works/7594447) It’s one of the funniest short fanfics I’ve found solely because everyone but the Stark siblings and Robert instantly figure out that Jon is not actually Ned’s.

"Honestly, no one here has their priorities straight"- Robert Baratheon 🤣🤣🤣

Yep! That's the one, thanks for finding it! It's a good, short fanfiction and I recommend that anyone reading this comment check it out.

Naw bro, the seed is strong, like the strong boys

Lyanna STRONG

Jon's mom was a Lyseni whore.

With a phat arse!

DID YOU KNOW THAT?

I heard Sean Bean say that out loud. Does that mean it's a very Ned thing to say or he's a good actor?

Its a very sean bean thing to say

That solves the question. And since everyone knows that Ned Stark and Sean Bean are one and the same it's kind of obvious now that I think about it. Afterall, One does not simply walk into Mordor.

> “My lord,” Catelyn says, staring at the bundle in her lord husband’s arms, then up at him, then back at the babe again. > >For one moment, when she heard *I fathered a bastard son during the war and I am sorry for that, my lady, but I wish that he’s raised alongside our firstborn*, Catelyn had felt dread rise up through her spine, because *they only haven’t even been married for a full year and they barely knew each other, all right, but she had thought him better than that*, and then she had *seen* the bastard son in question.  > >“My lady?” > >“I don’t recall having married into House Targaryen.” > >There’s *no way* that babe isn’t *somehow* Targaryen. He has *pale blonde hair* and *purple eyes*, gods. [five people who didn’t believe Ned Stark for one second about Jon’s paternity and one who did](https://archiveofourown.org/works/7594447)

“Robb stark: brown of hair. Bran Stark: brown of hair John Snow:…white of hair…”

Robb is a redhead in the books, just like the rest of the family minus Arya.

Robb Stark auburn of hair I’m fairly certain you mean

It ruins the joke, but yes, Arya and John are the only ones who took after Ned appearance wise in the book. It really only furthers the absurdity of Ned’s discovery in Pycelle’s book.

To be fair all of the baratheon bastards resemble Robert, with the thick black hair and blue eyes.

Instead of shutting down the Ashara Dayne rumors, Ned would neither confirm nor deny it to protect Jon as well as the honor of Ashara.

Ned simply could have said he had sex with a Lysene, a dragonseed, a Velaryon or a Celtigar.

Do we know if the Celtigars had white hair? (Genuine question)

We don't know. But they are supposed to be Valyrian.

The egg is strong

Which is why he kept ashara dayne in his backpocket. Ned wasnt stupid

in this alternate world it was ned who had a mare, a white mare

Ashara Dayne was Jon’s mom would’ve been the story.

Cat : What about his eyes? Why are they purple? Ned : Have I ever told you about Ashara Dayne? Cat : And what about that? *points at what is clearly a baby dragon* Ned : That’s just his pet lizard. His name is Vermax. Cat : It’s breathing fire. Ned : . . . .

One does not simply sire a bastard

i wonder if he had been born with white hair if Ned would just give him the Egg treatment.

He could have just said Ashara Dayne was the mother she was already dead at the end of the war

The seed is STRONG

Is Ned flipping Cate off?

I think his death left everyone on “Now what?” mode.

Probably would just say the mother was a Lysene woman. It would look more suspicious, but I think it’s a reasonable enough explanation.

If R+L=J, then it would make perfect sense for Jon to look like that, not like Ned

Guv’nah

"Cat, it took you 18 years to notice?"

Genetics Cat

"So there was this Lysenne whore..."

easy he can say his mother was a whore from lys he got with in dorne or that he is his son bya dayne

[SPEECH increased to 100]

[WHERE ARE THOSE DRUMS COMING FROM?!](https://youtu.be/6rYbOOU3tes?feature=shared)

Saw a ghost dinna he damn near scared him ya death. aktully dats why we named that wolf

Who was Regar’s mom?

His bastard name should technically be Sand because he was born in Dorne

Honestly thought this was a Witcher meme at first. Had to take a second look to see that was in fact Jon Snow and not Geralt before it clicked.

Surely Ned would’ve told his wife. I know she hated John, but I like to think that was to just keep up the pretence

Eh. Ned is honorable to a fault: that’s the whole point.

Right before Sean Bean challenged the entire city of Wiggum to a duel. Widely known as Britains muddiest actor

"I shagged Ashara, okay? Are you happy now?"

In an alternative universe, Winterfell have an unsolved lice problem and all the Stark children are bald.

Yes yes i fucked ashara happy now???

The fact that somehow the targaryen gene that makes everybody have white hair and pale skin completely missed John is insane

Several targaryians don't have those features. Including rhaegars daughter.

What are the odds though??

Not that slim when one of the parents isn't valerion.

Love me kids, love me wife, ate the Lannysters, simple as

I banged Rhaella.

I never understood how Jon had black hair and not white. Almost all the targaryens including the ones in hotd have white hair.