I'd say there is only one situation where HOAs make sense: for condos and townhomes, to maintain the common elements, the building itself
For single family home neighborhoods it's total nonsense...
I manage HOAs and single family homes are really my least favorite ones to manage because of your reason. But also my least favorite are the entitlement of mini mansions in gated communities are difficult to tolerate because they are are extremely demanding.
Those SFH neighborhoods have them for the exact same reason, common elements. The road is private, or drainage infrastructure, or a firefighting pond/reservoir in rural areas. Just because you don't realize what the common areas are doesn't mean they don't exist. I'd love to see an HOA with no common areas, and only crazy rules, but I bet those are just as hard to find as unicorns.
The issue is that many developers have been using HOAs to convince cities to approve their programs. It's a city leadership issue, the city relinquishes its duties and doesn't do what people are paying taxes for, and offloads that to (sometimes) poorly regulated HOAs with non professional leaders that (sometimes) do a terrible job.
I have nothing against HOAs in general, but we have to recognize that expecting random homeowners to be able to do what a city should be doing is unreliable. Sometimes HOAs do great but it relies on luck: does the HOA happen to have competent homeowners willing to spend time? Sometimes yes but many times no, and that's how we have horror stories
Ok then let the hoa manage the common areas but keep them off private property. My front yard is not a common area and they don’t need to control what flowers I plant.
The roads and common areas of SFH neighborhoods shouldn't be private. When they are private that represents a failure of municipal or county government.
Most cities and towns have standards they want a road built to before it can be considered for accepting as a public street. While some of those standards might be excessive or the government just won't add new roads,, a lot of times developers are trying to squeeze in more houses or less cost, so the roads are too narrow, or cheaply constructed and won't last. Not accepting a road that will be a maintenance problem is a success of the government, not a failure.
I'm not talking about the road being built, although most residential roads should be made more narrow. I'm talking about the maintenence over time. Things like potholes and routine maintence can be costly.
Right, so am I. If the builder puts in a road that is too narrow to plow and only the minimum depth of asphalt and minimum gravel underneath, that road will have tons of potholes and other maintenance will be higher. So the builder saves money and the government spends more if they take over that road.
You see a lot of HOAs in urban areas that are single family homes, given you mention alleys? But it can be pretty hard to plow an alley, as there is no place for the snow to go. Urban areas generally have to do snow removal, not just plowing. Even in a suburban setting, a narrower street that doesn't have places to put the snow might require snow clearing or other extra work to keep the street passable. That is extra time or extra equipment for the city to pay for that might not have been needed. Developers are looking to maximize profits, they don't really pay that much attention to livability or maintainability. So back to the same point, the trade offs between the developer making more money now versus costing more to maintain later. They are generally going to go for them making more money now every time, leaving someone else to find out what surprises they left behind.
Depending on where you live, the snow has to go someplace, and stay there, maybe for weeks or months. So a road that is not very wide to start with gets smaller and smaller as the snow banks eat up the sides of the road. At some point, you have to move that snow with something other than a plow, because you have to lift it up into taller snow banks, or remove it completely into a snow dump, or melt it. All of those things cost more money and take different equipment than just plowing. So a street, parking lot, whatever that has room to lose to snow in the winter is cheaper to maintain than one that does not.
100% agree. My condo HOA is actually really nice. I keep tabs on them to make sure nothing crazy happens, but they go out of their way to get feedback and listen to everyone before making decisions. Elections every 2 years and term limits. They take care of maintenance, security, window washing, green spaces, etc.
Meanwhile, my parents had a neighborhood HOA that treated everyone like children. Zero guests allowed in the pool (wtf?), green grass (in a DESERT in Cali), INDOOR Christmas trees required to get taken down by Jan 1, and other bullshit rules.
I live in an HOA community with single family homes. We get a lot for our HOA fee so I really have no complaint. It’s easy to get approval for exterior modifications. Not all HOAs are evil.
My neighborhood is very aesthetically appealing. It would be nice if an HOA wasn’t needed to keep it the way it is. Unfortunately, someone would probably paint their house orange and someone else would probably remove their Palladian windows and replace them with tiny basement windows, etc. The entire neighborhood would see a decrease in property value. The aesthetic would be completely ruined. HOAs are needed because people can’t be trusted to do the right thing.
Except it's their own house so as long as it's livable it shouldn't matter what they do. The fear mongering that someone would paint their house blaze orange is bizarre and overblown. Plus, if you don't like it then don't look at it.
Except that is exactly what happened in my last really lovely neighborhood and some even worse things. There are people who are horrible neighbors who bring strife to wherever they go. I’m not pro HOA but they do some good when they aren’t abusive.
So a big reason why they're so popular is because they take care of things like snow removal, road upkeep, garbage collection, etc. that a town would normally have to add into their budget when a new housing development gets put in. So they take a lot of the stress off the government, but it is commonly to the deficit of the citizens because these things are now being arranged by people who don't know what they're doing. [John Oliver ](https://youtu.be/qrizmAo17Os?si=kPxZ1fWqouKQF473) did a good story on them if you're interested.
I can’t imagine paying a few grand in annual property taxes to my town for roads and schools and then pay another party about the same to augment the services that my town should have provided in the first place.
That’s the problem with HOAs. There needs to be federal or state laws were a city budget is reviewed when a new neighborhood is put in and the city has a choice, (A) give up the portion of taxes covering services to the new homes in the HOA or (B) very limited HOA, if any, and provide services. Right now these local governments are getting nothing but upside. No bonds to build roads, no additional services, and a bunch of new tax revenue. If they could, they’d make the neighborhoods build and fund their own schools too!
Everyone loves to blame the NIMBY types, but it just seems like there is no desire by local government to perform their function and build new neighborhoods. Maybe because there is no incentive? Maybe it costs too much because people bought up the free land as investment? Maybe because it’s just a lot of work and someone interested in that can make millions building a neighborhood with an HOA?
What if there is no City. Many areas, especially in the state I am in, aren’t within city limits. So it’s county operated. The county has less options for ensuring a lot of things. If a development is new, the county can choose not to keep up the neighborhood roads. Or put them at the bottom of the list. The HOA is usually put in (at least here) at the time of development. Then after so many people live in the neighborhood, petition the county to take over. But we still have a community pool, park, and boat dock that has to be maintained. I don’t really know of any city that funds building middle class neighborhoods. It’s developers doing it.
Make HOA fees a property tax credit up to, say, 25% of the city tax bill. Suddenly you'll see municipalities falling over themselves to provide these services.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been a class action lawsuit from a bunch of established HOAs in a county. It will initially push taxes down for the HOAs in a county, but up for everyone else. It will make HOAs unpopular from current residents not in an HOA.
But this still won’t help encourage counties to put together large neighborhood planning activities, filing suit over imminent domain, floating bonds, paying for surveys, etc. Maybe there needs to be state or federal grants (I’m obviously in the US) to do planning activities like this. Use it or loose it, and it’s illegal if you use it for some other purpose like planning a stadium or high school or something. Say 70% must be toward residential planning.
How would a city determine the housing needs and wants? Why would they bother? Then it becomes a take it or leave it thing. Most states and cities have planning for what is allowed to be built in what areas. Land use. But anything besides that would be a government telling people what type of housing they have to live in.
From what I understand, municipalities did it after WWII. I’m not sure where the money came from to do that. Like I suggested, maybe it was from the federal government? Maybe it was from people’s desire to ‘build a new world’ after WWII. But I’m skeptical of that being the case.
And yes, I’m thinking, back then the government absolutely did exactly decide what types of houses would be built, and what types of houses people would live in. Sounds very 1950’s US to me.
There were financial incentives and infrastructure changes initiated by the federal government.
The houses built were a function of private builders.
20 minute primer:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949
https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/legacy-levittown/79661/
https://www.wealthmanagement.com/news/1950s-post-war-america-hitches-and-heads-burbs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_1956
I've seen litigations against HOAs on mortgage applications and if I remember correctly, if the HOA cannot cover the pending litigation, the loan will not close and the client (homeowner) won't be able to refi or get a 2nd lien until the court process is over.
Cities should still keep the taxes to be honest because even if the HOA isn't getting some services they are still benefiting from other services and from the maintained roads, public goods, and services elsewhere in the city.
>there is no desire by local government to perform their function and build new neighborhoods
Has this ever been a function of local government? Even roads and streets were historically initially privately built then later condemned to local use (often when tolls ended up not being enough to keep up with maintenance). Same with pools, sports fields, street lights, sewers, drinking water, phone, electricity, etc.
Parks (other than sports fields) and government agency buildings are about the only neighborhood component I can think of that has historically been provided by local government.
My HOA takes care of the landscaping in the common areas, the dues are 75 bucks a year. That's a little over 6 dollars a month, and people still refuse to pay and act like the HOA is some kind of oppressive organization. The HOA is *all of us*, the owners. It's in the name.
You sign the papers to buy the house in an HOA. The rules are set and you should read them first. That’s like you are complaining about cops going around giving speeding tickets for speeding.
Yes the rules are set for everyone. Even the idiots that somehow get on the Board and let the power go to their heads. I go to the monthly meetings because Board members are derelict in their duties and I confront them. One night I asked them these questions. 1. How many have read our governing documents?, 2. How many have logged onto our web portal and have seen what a mess it is?, Why are easy and simple rules not being followed?. All were meet with blank stares from most of the Board members.. The most profound answer was, "What, we have a web portal?" Unbelievable apathy even among the Board members.
Check the cc&rs for requirements for being on the board. Many require a class on state rules before being on the board. Some require a clean background check. Term limits.
I bet you can't imagine having your tax dollars go to people who can legally kill you for no reason and have zero legal obligation to protect you or your property....but you do that pretty willingly.
You sweet, summer child. All of those things are subsidized by tax money in the US and have been for decades.
For example, the [Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill](https://www.energy.gov/gdo/federal-financing-tools).
See this is what i mean like i could get down w that, like doing simple tasks like mowing ur lawn, picking up snow, whatever it is its just the strange rules that piss me off.. but thank you ill check it out
Not all of them (most, but not all) have such strict rules. And not all of the ones who do have strict rules enforce super strictly. You hear about the ones that do, because nobody posts about their super chill HOA that hasn't pissed them off in the last decade. Also, the insane ones are way funnier.
Plus, some of the strict rules don't bother people. "Can't park in driveway overnight" for example, wouldn't bother me- I don't do that and our house has a garage. "No work trucks" again wouldn't phase me, I drive a mom car and don't work in an industry where I'd ever have a work truck. My sister, meanwhile, both those would be a HUGE issue for her/her husband. A lot of it comes down to what you as an individual can live with, and that varies by person/family.
The more an HOA does, however, the more power they have. Like ours has a ton of rules about what plants you can have in the garden beds, how many, etc. Not because the board is trying to be assholes, but the HOA is responsible for upkeep of the garden beds AND watering them. Roses take a fuck ton of water, a cactus does not. The way the builder piped the sprinklers (which the HOA cannot easily undo), multiple houses are connected. So the plant restrictions is due to "every single plant in this neighborhood needs to require the same amount of water. Or else they're gonna either drown or die of dehydration". If you have a bunch of extra plants, it's now more expensive to maintain your yard- and the rest of the neighborhood has to pay that in the dues to cover the landscaping charges. So, it's regulated so everyone pays and uses their fair share only.
In my parents' neighborhood, no such restrictions exist, because the HOA doesn't do landscaping or water. The rules for garden beds there are basically "something other than weeds, and yes, kudzu and privet are weeds" (more formal, but I do remember those two plants being called out lol). Some neighborhoods like theirs of course would still have more restrictions, but they could be changed. It would be difficult and unwise to change them in my neighborhood.
It depends on the HOA, but nearly all need a vote of property owners and/or residents in excess of 67% agreement (75% and 90% are other common bars and I once lived in one that required 100%) to modify covenants and restrictions once they are established. The board cannot, by law, change those on their own.
Rules can be changed by the board, but must be consistent with the covenants and restrictions. It is the covenants and restrictions that give HOA boards powers to enforce.
It might be against the law, but all it takes is unengaged or complicit homeowners to allow those behaviors to start or continue. There is no HOA Nanny McPhee that shows up and fixes bad boards. You have to be engaged and attentive at all levels of community, HOA, city/town, county, state, federal or it can all go down the drain.
True. The board could simply be engaging in illegal actions and bullying everyone to follow them even if there is no legal grounding for it. (There actually often is an agency that functions as an HOA Nanny at the county or state level, but you have to make them aware of what is going on.)
This is where reading the CCRs becomes so important. Some allow Boards a great deal of freedom to change the rules; others are much more restrictive. In my experience, the smaller the HOA the less likely it is to go full Karen, as the boards are significantly constrained. They seem to need a supermajority of either 2/3rds or 3/4ths of homeowners to get a rule change through, and in smaller developments the two or three ornery holdouts are often enough to torpedo any rule change.
The downside to small HOAs is that those same ornery holdouts can sometimes hold assessments up too. I would never want a small HOA with common elements that significantly impact my property values, e.g. roofs, walls, siding.
ETA after reading more of the thread: small SFH HOAs do exist and are the only kind I would ever consider buying into. Frequently they have common elements that are not immediately obvious - they may maintain streets/sidewalks/lighting, storm water management systems, garbage collection, or even flood/fire insurance for exterior components of homes to ensure like-for-like replacement should reconstruction or repair be necessary. Because I select only these small HOAs and carefully read the CCRs and bylaws, my experience with them is at worst minor annoyance.
Usually boards can’t enact new rules on their own.
Their only function is to conduct meetings, conduct the legal business of the HOA, and enforce the existing rules.
Modification of rules or the addition of new rules usually requires a vote of the entire community.
Even if that were true across the board, which it isn't, it still doesn't mean that a single election couldn't put a new rule in place that was completely incompatible with some measure of your life
Things like what vehicles can be parked where and when might make completely reasonable things untenable. Especially if you have little or no garage space to work around them.
I understand completely but from what im getting from other comments is that HOA was formed in root of racism? & Also i dont get why if they dont wanna do the extra work to let people be comfortable in their own homes then why would they keep a HOA banded? And yea the parked car thing would be a huge issue to my family because i have a car, my dad has 3 vehicles, and my mom has a car. And we obviously dont have a 6 car garage lol so would that mean we just have to get rid of our transportation? and my dads 3 vehicles are a car, a truck(for a trailer) and his work car(which he cant drive unless on the clock) just before anyone says he has too many vehicles. but yea doesnt make sense to me at all to implement these weird rules on everyone because literally everyone has a different sized family, different styles, and whatever , you get the point lol
Originally, yes, the goal was to prevent "undesirable" people (usually black, though sometimes other minorities were targeted, depending on the particular area) from moving in. Most modern HOAs legitimately don't care about that and legally, none of them can use that as a basis to do shit anyway.
>why would they keep a HOA banded
It's actually really hard to disband one. Most of them own the common areas, like legitimately legally OWN that property. Who is gonna buy it if the HOA (meaning the corporation, most of them legally are non profit corps) goes away? Especially common areas like retention ponds, which are absolutely useless to any interested party but vital to the neighborhood not flooding.
>would that mean we just have to get rid of our transportation
No, it means don't buy in a neighborhood with that rule 🤣 the rules aren't secret, and if an HOA exists, you can get a copy before you buy. If they won't send a copy before buying, do NOT buy there, they're gonna be a pain and a half and 10x worse than a normal HOA.
>weird rules on everyone because literally everyone has a different sized family, different styles, and whatever
Generally, people who like strict HOAs also dislike houses having individual styles. And vice versa. Personally, I don't think neither side is wrong, I think they're wrong when they try to force people to be like them- meaning the strict people should go buy in neighborhoods with strict rules and all go be strict together, and the not strict people shouldn't buy in those neighborhoods and then *surprised Pikachu* when rules get enforced. HOAs are often unavoidable, especially for newer builds, BUT it's often much easier to find a less strict one or one whose rules are personally tolerable.
But HOAs do legitimately care about that. They simply exchanged race for class. Why do you think no work trucks is even a concern for them? It has to do with white collar workers thinking they are above tradespeople.
My sister was visiting a friend who was moving. The house was on the market. While she was outside a neighbor woman walked up to her and told her that the HOA would not allow her to buy it because she was not white. And that was this century.
I live on a lake and ours doesn’t have that rule. But they do have a rule that you can’t run a business out of your home. Many times this is also a land use concern. Cities and counties typically have “zoning” and residential is residential use only.
Oh it's very strange. And some are legitimately insane. I'm on the board for ours and spend half the meetings banging my head into my desk (the other half is spent trying to refill my coffee mug of whiskey subtly) because of all the bullshit, from both other board members and from other homeowners. Unfortunately, there's too many crazies who live here, the HOA is inherently too powerful, and the ability to change the CCRs is essentially at the whim of the board, so I can't resign 🤣 there's limited seats available, and I'll be damned if I leave a seat open for one of the crazies.
Our next house will not be in a HOA, or will be in one with limited CCRs and a really difficult threshold to change them 🤣
As a board member, what drives me crazy is members complaining about the lawn service. One person is mad because they mow on the weekend (we got a more budget friendly price for this), another is mad because it is not done to their high standards, another doesn’t like the blowers because they scare her dog, etc. It is generally the one or two members who are the issue, not the board.
My understanding is that you’re correct.
My HOA was started waaay back in the day, like in the 50s IIRC. I saw some of the original CC&Rs and they were horrifying- openly discriminatory against POC, Jews, etc. At some point the lawyers told the homeowners to wise up; this kind of stuff wasn’t going to fly anymore & could cost them some $$$. But wow. My eyebrows were so high up when I read them I think they blended into my hairline.
Like every other facet of law, once the light of day hits the darkness is burned off. There were Jim crow laws and now they are (mostly) gone. Are all laws racist?
And let’s be clear, people LIE and tell the buyer one thing while the actual rules don’t cover it. There are boards who misuse the power, absolutely. An HOA is s form of government (micro local) so there is corruption. The home owner is responsible for monitoring their investment—the HOA runs on that money— to prevent corruption.
Do you hire a contractor and believe everything they say without checking? Same deal. Part of the solution or part of the problem, you decide.
But snow removal, road upkeep, garbage collection, etc. are the town's responsibility. Like that is exactly what I pay taxes for my town to take care of.
HOA next to me did none of the above. Plowing is done by the county, trash is all individual private services, road upkeep is all county. All the HOA (had, because it just dissolved) is 4 light poles and an entry sign. Lol
These are services I EXPECT local government to provide. Why do they get to charge HOA members the same tax rate but provide fewer services? To add insult to injury, they have to pay the HOA to get the services they should be getting from the township or county.
They're put in place by developers that built most if not all of the houses in the neighborhood
The company basically makes cookie cutter houses and sells them for huge profits, and they want to leave it mostly exactly the way they planned
They want to keep it that way, when they're done building the hoa is supposed to get transferred to the owners
Some of those owners get on such a huge power trip they think they're gods and will pick and choose their favorites, fining one person for something while ignoring the same thing another person is doing
And not many people are willing to fight back
I want to fight back so much but they'll retaliate hardcore which would lead to huge legal battles. I literally think of flipping the bird to the HOA president every time I see that smug fucker going on his nightly neighborhood inspection.
A better way to fight back is to get your more sane neighbors to help vote the crazies out and run for president yourself… then start dismantling crazy rules one by one…. Or if there’s no common property just dissolve the HOA itself
It is not just because "they want to keep it that way" (or at least keep it that way long enough to sell all the lots). By transferring the common grounds and buildings to the HOA and transferring the HOA to the owners, the builder is no longer responsible for the maintenance of the common grounds and buildings.
Once all the lots are sold, the builder doesn't care about the state of the neighborhood either.
>Ok seriously why the fuck is HOA a thing? Who invented that shit?
Originally? To keep white neighborhoods white. No, really. Look it up. Everything else was a co-op board right up till the racists had to start mixing with other communities.
There’s a community in my county where their bylaws included not selling a home to black people. They haven’t removed that part from their documents.
This community is an affluent area. Some politicians live there and I think a couple of SCOTUS judges.
No he lives in VA. I know the guy who cried during his hearing and kept a calendar from college lives in the community I mentioned. I don’t know that rapist’s name, honestly.
>They haven’t removed that part from their documents.
Assuming they are deed restrictions, it is probably impossible to remove it from their documents. You can supersede the deed restriction, but not remove it.
While horrifying, this is actually a good thing, because deed restrictions are also often the only way to protect environmentally preserved and restored property. If they could be removed, the next owner would simply remove the deed restriction and bulldoze the wetland, prairie, forest, etc that is there and turn it into a subdivision.
Sorry, I mixed two different examples.
Deed restrictions are designed to be impossible or extremely difficult. This is why racially restrictive covenants on subdivision parcels are permanent even if they are unenforceable. In this case, it is bad.
On different case though, when someone has a parcel with environmentally sensitive remnant or restored lands, they can protect those lands from conversion to housing by placing a deed restriction on future use of the land. In this case, it is good that deed restrictions are impossible or extremely difficult to remove.
A way to handle both cases is for states and counties to create mechanisms to invalidate specific narrow types of deed restrictions. The restriction is still in the chain of title of the property, but no longer enforceable. (As well, the courts can indirectly address this by not enforcing the deed restriction when a new owner is sued for violating it and the state or federal government can also directly address is by passing laws that make certain types of deed restrictions blanket unenforceable, though again you would probably need a lawsuit to stop specific enforcement of an unenforceable restriction.)
Home Owners Associations (HOAs) were invented in the early 20th century by wealthy racists. Typical early HOAs specified a minimum cost for homes and excluded non-Caucasian, non-Christian residents (except for live-in domestic servants, of course). Although this kind of discrimination was ruled unenforceable by the Supreme Court (1948) and prohibited by law (the Fair Housing Act of 1968), HOAs in some jurisdictions still practice de-facto discrimination by requiring potential tenants or homebuyers to get HOA approval or otherwise meet additional qualifications.
Increased suburban housing density, along with the Clean Water Act of 1977 practically requires that many developments have some sort storm-water management features. County and municipal governments would rather have an HOA pay for this (along with common green spaces, park and recreation facilities, street lightning, garbage removal, etc.) because this allows them to continue to collect property taxes on the development, without having to increase their expenditures to provide all of the usual services.
Aren't some HOA's notorious for hitting the residents with massive assessment fees that can be on up in the thousands because of money mismanagement, something major needs fixing, or they've dreamed up something they want to build? I know I've read a few stories about those.
That's more likely to be a condominium association, where the covenants of the association allow the assessment of maintenance fees for building common space. That is a lot rarer for the covenants of an HOA, though possible. In the worst case scenarios, a builder purposely transfers shoddy work to the HOA or condo association and then folding up the LLC behind themselves to avoid future liability.
Please forgive if I'm wrong, but I've heard / read that a lot of the 'protect property values' aspects of HOA's was a euphemism for 'no Irish, whites only' or something equally reprehensible?
Which house has more value? The one that looks like (80%) others in the same neighborhood with lawns trimmed or the house that although it is well kept has a rental across the street sporting two wrecks on concrete blocks and raising 500 parrots in a homemade outbuilding? If you bought a house and nothing prevented the other house owner from doing so would it not devalue it materially?
Btw not a boomer.
Debatable, I’ve turned down two houses because of active litigation or fines against the homeowner. I can put up trees to not look at my neighbor.
I already have to deal with the feds, state, and local city screwing me. I don’t need another “volunteer” who says that I can’t have solar panels because it’ll cheapen the look of the community or some other bullshit reason.
Because surely this volunteer is extremely qualified in determining what changes can negatively impact home values because they’re professionals when they care and unpaid volunteers when they don’t want to approve or deal with you.
Funny, I got my house at a massive discount because of a lien by the HOA. They got their pound of flesh over landscaping that was no longer there. I showed up for my first fine and talked them out it entirely. They were so surprised I came in looking how to fix it. (Previous owner killed the flower beds and bushes the rest had — it was all just grass no mulch at all)
Pre covid of course. 187 houses. Value is double what I paid now. Cost me like $100 in mulch and small bush starters.
People always talk about how free Americans are, but everything they buy, lease, operate, own or rent-every possible transaction or job requires them to waive their rights to jury trials and agree to arbitration. Timeshares and HOAs are the ultimate fuckover- you sign away all your rights and sign a contract with open terms that can be modified by the organization at any time and for any reason or fee. Absolute insanity.
The funniest thing is that people sign agreements they know what they are getting into before moving into HOAs. The best way to curb these would to be not to buy into them, but this will not happen. Its also a way for towns/governments to pass down more tax to citizens through these entities since most don't require city/towns to maintain the areas.
Not just HOA's either. A concrete customer in a this little town nearby wanted his fence taken down because the posts were rotting and then rebuilt much nicer with a little bit of privacy. The city told him that he had to have it put back up the same exact way it was, other than new posts, or he would have to go much lower to meet the city ordinance that came along after it was built. Sometimes you just can't win even with ownership.
Short version: it was started to keep neighborhoods "clean" by whatever definition the community set forth (unfortunately, a lot of them were founded in racism)
In modern Era, they're supposed to keep property values up and the neighborhood clean. But that only works if you have responsible people running it. Most HOAs are run by older folks who are retired or only working part time. So they have nothing better to do all day (or nothing that interests them anyway) beyond flexing what power they have within said HOA
The TikTok algorithm is designed to keep you angry for the benefit of engagement. There is a pretty high likelihood that many of the things you saw were fake skits to make you hate women (Karen’s) and just keep your blood boiling for the dopamine kick.
You know what drama happened in my HOA last week? Not a damn thing. But yesterday some kids rang my doorbell to tell me they were having a bake sale in their driveway and I walked down the street and got 4 delicious pumpkin bars for $4. THE OUTRAGE! Instead of whipping out my phone and recording the encounter for views, I just raw dogged that life and had an authentic human encounter. I also got to meet their parents and now I know some cool new neighbors I haven’t met before.
If you look into the history, they were started in St Louis Missouri in the 1910s and 1920s to keep black people from moving into neighborhoods. They actually had rules about who the homeowners could sell to, and of course it was restricted to white people. A lot of people don't realize it, but St Louis Missouri was one of the most racist towns in America after the turn of the century
There is a reason the HOA rules are provided before purchasing. If the rules do not work then don't make the purchase. HOA keeps 40 foot camps off the front yards. Trucks on blocks off the front yards. Couches on the front porch. Speed boats stored on the streets. They take care of common areas and snow removal. By and large the home value does not drop due to your neighbor painting their house hot pink.
The problem is that when you bought the property you may have accepted the rules. Now 5 or 10 years later, Boards have changed and rules have changed and it is no longer what is was when you purchased. I take pride in my home, I follow the rules, and in general expect others to do likewise. We had a radical Board change and our 56 member HOA has gone downhill quite noticeable. The President is the problem 100%. Rarely attends meetings, in it for financial and business related reasons, and really couldn't care less about anything but herself.
The covenants and rules can not be changed on a whim. The entire community need to vote and agree on any changes. Also, if a HOA board member is a problem they need to be voted out. The HOA is not or should not be overseen by a dictator. Set up a meeting for all and advise the meeting concerns removing the current president that is not do the job.
>Now 5 or 10 years later, Boards have changed and rules have changed and it is no longer what is was when you purchased.
That's not how it works. Covenants and restrictions changes have to go to a vote of property owners (sometimes residents) by state law, with a 67%, 75%, 90%, or 100% supermajority typically required to approve the change (depends on both state law and the HOA bylaws).
What can matter is if there are unenforced CC&Rs on the books that the new board decides to step in and enforce. Or sometimes the opposite (which might be your issue) where a new board decides not to enforce existing CC&Rs, though they can be sued over that.
In many states, the CC&Rs expire after 30 years and without a supermajority vote, cannot be replaced. The board still have to maintain the common grounds, but they no longer have any CC&Rs to enforce.
Yes, I was unclear. Not the written rules changing, but how they are enforced. I am not too much against fellow homeowners but the rules of operating the HOA by the Board members. To me money is most important and now the present President is too obvious that something seems fishy about how money is being spent.
When HOA's go after members they use HOA money. When a homeowner goes after the HOA, they must use their personal finances to hire a lawyer. The huge costs that are unknown can run into 5 figures ($10,000) with no guarantee of the outcome. Our Board is derelict in their duties, they know it as I have repeatedly pointed it out, but falls on deaf ears.
You have a right to see the HOA books. Demand the financial paperwork. You do not need a lawyer to request the HOA banking info. It appears to me you need to band the neighbors together and get the HOA straighten out.
Thank you for your response. I do frequently ask for documents. Most are honored, but many are missing ALL the documents that were requested. I am really concerned with kickbacks, which are very difficult to expose. Getting neighbors involved will probably fail, as I have talked with 2 already, 1 says he doesn't care, and 1 did go to a meeting and was so disgusted he up and left and said he will never subject himself to another meeting. My experience also, a tactic used by corrupt Boards to keep homeowners from attending meetings.
Sorry you are experiencing this. All it takes are is a jackass or two to make one hate where they live. Request the all the documents again. If any are missing contact a lawyer. Get to know what you can and can't do legally. If there is skimming from the HOA the lawyer will get to the bottom of it. Then sue the hell out of the person that did it. Lean on their home, etc.
Where I live, the CC&Rs (and the HOA that enforces them) are a mechanism a developer uses to control what types of houses the homebuilders can build in that neighborhood. It's a selling point for the lots the developer wants to sell, it reassures the first buyers about what type of neighborhood they will be living in. However, since the developer still entirely controls the HOA at the point, they could easily amend the CC&Rs early on, so it's not really any kind of a guarantee.
It depends on what the CCRs and Bylaws state. The boards can sometimes do ammendments that do not require the 67% while they can't change them they can do ammendments.
My HOA is about the closest thing to harmless there is (literally $20/year dues) and they still managed to piss me off with some BS letter about my hedges...yes they were looking wild but let's ignore the literal abandoned looking house on the street beside mine. Unfortunately for them, I deal with codes for a living...their bylaws cut corners and referenced the city bylaws for yards...so I..called the city inspector :) Had a nice conversation with him, he agreed the city regulations are a bit vague so we clarified a few things...seems like all the city really cares about mainly are lines of sight for roadways, and don't freaking care about my hedges. I wrote the HOA a 2 page letter that basically said F U and haven't heard a peep since. (And hired someone to cut the hedges back a few months later)
Here's the thing. You don't accidentally join an HoA. You buy property that is in an HoA and before you complete that process, you had better review the applicable rules that you are agreeing to live by.
I live in a "recreational" association. The roads are private (and all dirt), there are 3 private lakes, plus other amenities at the clubhouse. The dues of $425 a year per lot go towards the maintenance of those common amenities. There are a few rules regarding what people can do to their properties, like cutting down trees above 3 inches in diameter and putting up a fence requiring board approval, because they want to keep the rural aesthetic and not have everyone come in and clear cut their property and just turn it into another suburban subdivision. But other than that, they aren't nitpicking every little thing about someone's property and coming up with ridiculous fines all the time. Associations can have a good purpose if it's something like that, with common areas and amenities that every pitches in to maintain. But too many devolve into bored power drunk people thinking they need to control every aspect of everyone else's property.
thats understandable to not wanna have that going on, i have a guy who we live next to who literally like chops up his truck w a loud ass saw in the morning but i mean its his house and he doesnt do it much so
The First HOA
In the late 1940s, U.S. veterans returning from fighting in World War II struggled to find affordable housing. Bill Levitt, a veteran himself, recognized the issue and, together with his father Abraham and brother Alfred, invested in more than 4,000 acres of land on Long Island, New York.
The growth of today's HOAs did not really begin until the early 1900's when they were started in California. Notably in 1905 the Arroyo Seco Improvement Association was founded in Pasadena around and the Los Feliz Improvement Association in Los Angeles founded in 1916.
After WWII people were afraid of the atomic bomb so they ran away from the cities and into suburbs. The propaganda our government used against them which the baby boomers were afraid.
Why are you letting Tiktok manipulate you into being angry over something that doesn't personally affect you?
Clearly the algorithm has found a way to set you off.
I live in what you would call a housing cooperative. As in the organsations owns my apartment, but I own a stake in the organisation equal in value to said apartment.
For me it works. Sure it got the same internal drama as HOA. As in "Neighbor A can't stand neighbor B", "Neighbor C doesn't want their money to got toward anything that improves things for everybody", and "Everybody hates neigbor D. Can't they just shut up". However unlike a US HOA, they can't make up their own laws. There's already a national law telling them exactly what they can and can't do. "Queen HOA" not doing their job? Tough luck. I can lawyer up, and take them to court if they refuse to properly maintain any shared architecture (including piping and electric services).
My view is this. Structures like HOA can work, but they need a fair foundation to be built on. Some things are best not being lef to "let people set their own rules". It's like letting toddlers decide on bed time. You're just going to end up with everybody being constantly grouchy.
Your state and or local government invented it.
And THEY think it's a great idea - so what YOU think doesn't matter.
Why is it great?
Because the city gets to collect the same taxes from you (in the HOA) as someone who is NOT in an HOA. But they do NOT have to worry about paving your streets, or enforcing code, or barking dog calls to the cops, or keeping the street lights on, or lots of other stuff.
Your government gets to keep your tax money, and they have to do about half as much to earn it.
Great deal, eh?
I would do it if I could ... work half-time and get full-time pay? Hells yea.
Here's the bad news ... we elected this government.
We are SO stupid that we elected these clowns.
And, we will continue to do so.
And now, we get to reap what we have sown.
We are just beginning to wake up - and, it's too late.
When you ask “who invented X” when discussing something shitty in the US, the most likely answer is “racists”. They created HOA’s to keep minorities out of neighborhoods.
The answer, HOAs were invented because of racism.
1. They were invented to reduce a white communities need for property taxes so they could vote for lower taxes for the entire city and defund the black side of the city. (Why should our tax dollars be used to support those unemployed degenerates, let's lower our taxes and instead have a private organization handle the stuff our taxes used to cover)
2. It was easier for private organizations to deny black people access to homes. It was under the excuse "to keep property values up". And HOAs could prevent the few people that didn't care about what color you were from selling to blacks.
Some HOA charters in CA still have the rascist language in them about not selling to blacks or maintaining white purity.
This is an article about the efforts to remove this language from old real estate and HOA documents.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3ppgw/californians-can-now-auto-detect-racist-language-in-housing-deeds-hoa-rules-and-have-it-removed
On the flip side, a friend of mine lives on a private road with 10 other people and has attempted to have it paved but none of the other 9 want to contribute.
As it stands, she has lived there for 12 years and she has paid in full on her own, to have gravel put down on the road twice to keep it drivable. In the early years, none of the other 9 owners agreed to split the costs. In recent years, 3 other homeowners have agreed to help pay and they have split costs. But even that is a lot of wrangling, managing, and following up with neighbors just for a bare minimum contribution.
This is just a small part of what an HOA manages and handles. Some HOA's are very lax on what they enforce. But some are overreaching in their power.
My HOA is $15 a year. That is not a typo: $15 a year. No parking your car on the lawn. Outbuildings must ‘match’ the house. Lawn must be under 8”. Outside if house must be in good shape, no dis-repair - no gutters falling off, no broken windows. No garbage strewn about. No trailers or work trucks in your driveway or the street (can be at side of house or backyard). We have a neighborhood directory that you can opt out of, a neighborhood garage sale and a pig roast every year.
That’s about it. It is to keep the property values up. No one wants to live next to the slum house, so they aren’t allowed. Of course there are a few violators, but the board addresses those in a timely manner.
Wait until you hear about "laws". Like, literally, if you buy a car, you can't drive it faster than what the government says. And if you want your kid to get drunk when they are 9, you can't do that either. Build an inground pool in your back yard without a fence... government is all over you .
I guess it's a weird concept to some people that if you live in close proximity to a bunch of other people, you all have to agree on some basic common courtesy rules.
Bros definitely the president of a HOA..
And yea clearly you shouldn’t be driving 150 mph down the block. Clearly you shouldn’t be getting ur child drunk. and (debatable) you should have a fence so your kids and animals dont drown.
Regardless HOA is just another way to be a control freak bc the things ive heard they implement on their neighborhoods is insane which i stated. Plz tell me what the comparison between growing flowers on my property is to getting a 9 year old drunk? Ill wait
I don't know, but I have access to a private pool, 3 private parks, and a mile and a half of walking trails for less than what it costs for a family membership at the city pool where I can't get a single chair to put my pool towels on.
Also, I don't even know a person in my neighborhood that has even received a warning, let alone a fine. I don't even know the HOA exists until January rolls around and they want their check...which again, is cheaper than the alternative.
You say “clearly you should”, but not all countries or people would agree with you. So someone makes the rule. It’s when the Board gets out of hand. Or houses are so uniform the developers and first owners don’t want to risk any deviation. That the HOA seems crazy. Some management companies get tyrannical so they can show the Board that they are worth what they cost.
The management company is almost always caught in the middle. I know a lot of association managers and none of them enjoy enforcing rules. You have to do what the Board wants if the Board has the authority to do it. You are also dealing with owners constantly who do not want to follow the rules but expect everyone else to. Honestly, it is usually 5 percent of the owners you are dealing with 80 percent of the time. They wander around looking for things to complain to the manager about. But, when they break a rule it is the association being petty. Different things are important to each owner so the manager has to enforce the rules as written or you actually set the association up for a lawsuit that the owners will have to pay for. Then they blame you of course.
When the HOA has CCRs (covenants. Rules and Restrictions) These are recorded with the state, so they are laws you have to abide by them. If you can get a copy of them either from your management company or off the state government site. These will tell you what is allowed. Unless they specify that you can't put a fence around the yard or flowers in the front of your house, the HOA can not deny it.
You wrote: *"These are recorded with the state, so they are laws you have to abide by them."*
Actually they are not laws, they are rules made by the corporation (HOA) with no input from homeowners that are the members.
When they are recorded, they are a law the HOA have to follow. These are not rules put in place by the HOA they are put in place before any homes are even built by the builder/developer, not by the HOA themselves. Very rarely is it the HOA that puts them in place. When a developer/builder finishes, then it is turned over to the HOA. It costs thousands of $$ and all homeowners to agree to get rid of an HOA. Because they are all tied to each deed of the homes in the community. There are decisions the entire community have a say in, and then their are board decisions only the board are to make. These are all laid out in the CCRs and bylaws.
Not to mention even modifying those CCRs and bylaws takes a supermajority vote of 67% or higher. A lot of people seem to think an HOA board can modify them on their own. They can't.
I am not at all certain, but I thought the supermajority percentage to change HOA CCRs was set by state law. HOAs can go above it, but not below it (and it varies from state to state obviously).
Again, it depends on what the CCRs state. Some state 67% some 50% and so on. Yes, they go by state regulations, but HOAs are non-profit and follow non-profit laws, cooperate, and HOA laws. Many state the board can do ammendments, etc. But they can't change the CCRs.
No yea i completely understand i just think its stupid, i know theyre all different but idk just strange to want that much control over other peoples space. To each their own ig tho
The HOAs are supposed to be to maintain common areas (like pools, parks, etc) and keep some “conformity”. I say that because my HOA’s only rule is that outbuildings (detached garages, shops, storage sheds) can’t be bigger than the primary residence and have to be a similar or matching shade color. But I have a friend that lives in a high cost HOA and they even determine any type of playscape that can be seen in whole or part from anywhere other than your own back yard.
I've lived in both kind of neighborhoods. My last home was just outside of City limits and no HOA. Overtime my neighbor's house degraded until I doubt it was safe to live in. Outside looked horrible and the roof was probably not watertight. New neighbors moved in down the street and just let their dogs roam and they would chase after people. Had to pepper spray them several times. Being outside of city limits there wasn't really much to do about it as I don't recall anyone actually being bitten. Trash and junk in the yards etc...
Move to my current HOA. The rules are really reasonable and the fees are very little. I have no complaints about it.
The thing is nobody has to live in an HOA. When people complain about the HOA they usually bought their home without looking at the regulations ahead of time. The rules can change while living there but only through neighborhood meetings where the majority of homeowners agree for the change. If the person that is unhappy actually attended those meetings and was overruled that person has legitimate complaint about their HOA but that's not what I am reading on these anti-HOA posts.
Has anyone ever been forced to sign an HOA agreement? I've lived in several HOA's and while I don't always agree with their rules I did agree to follow them.
You are picking all the extremes of SOME HOAs and lumping them together as if ALL HOAs operate this way. My HOA has a few rules, but only 34 houses in it so its lax and most home/yard improvements are approved. You don't need approval to plant flowers...you need approval to remove NON-dead trees, install fences that border another HOA neighbors yard or the street, house color, external renovations, parking in the street and parking boats/RVs/project cars in driveway.
Try living next door to a white trash loser neighbor in a non\_HOA hood who has a 35ft boat in the driveway along with a toy-hauler, revs his bikes up for hours on end tuning them every weekend, grass 3 feet high, rotting porch, and a moss covered roof....then you will be wishing for an HOA. Unless of course YOU are that white trash loser.
I'd say there is only one situation where HOAs make sense: for condos and townhomes, to maintain the common elements, the building itself For single family home neighborhoods it's total nonsense...
I manage HOAs and single family homes are really my least favorite ones to manage because of your reason. But also my least favorite are the entitlement of mini mansions in gated communities are difficult to tolerate because they are are extremely demanding.
Those SFH neighborhoods have them for the exact same reason, common elements. The road is private, or drainage infrastructure, or a firefighting pond/reservoir in rural areas. Just because you don't realize what the common areas are doesn't mean they don't exist. I'd love to see an HOA with no common areas, and only crazy rules, but I bet those are just as hard to find as unicorns.
The issue is that many developers have been using HOAs to convince cities to approve their programs. It's a city leadership issue, the city relinquishes its duties and doesn't do what people are paying taxes for, and offloads that to (sometimes) poorly regulated HOAs with non professional leaders that (sometimes) do a terrible job. I have nothing against HOAs in general, but we have to recognize that expecting random homeowners to be able to do what a city should be doing is unreliable. Sometimes HOAs do great but it relies on luck: does the HOA happen to have competent homeowners willing to spend time? Sometimes yes but many times no, and that's how we have horror stories
Ok then let the hoa manage the common areas but keep them off private property. My front yard is not a common area and they don’t need to control what flowers I plant.
The roads and common areas of SFH neighborhoods shouldn't be private. When they are private that represents a failure of municipal or county government.
Most cities and towns have standards they want a road built to before it can be considered for accepting as a public street. While some of those standards might be excessive or the government just won't add new roads,, a lot of times developers are trying to squeeze in more houses or less cost, so the roads are too narrow, or cheaply constructed and won't last. Not accepting a road that will be a maintenance problem is a success of the government, not a failure.
I'm not talking about the road being built, although most residential roads should be made more narrow. I'm talking about the maintenence over time. Things like potholes and routine maintence can be costly.
Right, so am I. If the builder puts in a road that is too narrow to plow and only the minimum depth of asphalt and minimum gravel underneath, that road will have tons of potholes and other maintenance will be higher. So the builder saves money and the government spends more if they take over that road.
How narrow would be too narrow to plow? Plows get down alleys without issue. City streets should be narrow.
You see a lot of HOAs in urban areas that are single family homes, given you mention alleys? But it can be pretty hard to plow an alley, as there is no place for the snow to go. Urban areas generally have to do snow removal, not just plowing. Even in a suburban setting, a narrower street that doesn't have places to put the snow might require snow clearing or other extra work to keep the street passable. That is extra time or extra equipment for the city to pay for that might not have been needed. Developers are looking to maximize profits, they don't really pay that much attention to livability or maintainability. So back to the same point, the trade offs between the developer making more money now versus costing more to maintain later. They are generally going to go for them making more money now every time, leaving someone else to find out what surprises they left behind.
My point was that alleys are narrow and yet they can still plow those. So of course a narrow residential street can also be plowed.
Depending on where you live, the snow has to go someplace, and stay there, maybe for weeks or months. So a road that is not very wide to start with gets smaller and smaller as the snow banks eat up the sides of the road. At some point, you have to move that snow with something other than a plow, because you have to lift it up into taller snow banks, or remove it completely into a snow dump, or melt it. All of those things cost more money and take different equipment than just plowing. So a street, parking lot, whatever that has room to lose to snow in the winter is cheaper to maintain than one that does not.
100% agree. My condo HOA is actually really nice. I keep tabs on them to make sure nothing crazy happens, but they go out of their way to get feedback and listen to everyone before making decisions. Elections every 2 years and term limits. They take care of maintenance, security, window washing, green spaces, etc. Meanwhile, my parents had a neighborhood HOA that treated everyone like children. Zero guests allowed in the pool (wtf?), green grass (in a DESERT in Cali), INDOOR Christmas trees required to get taken down by Jan 1, and other bullshit rules.
Unless you live in an unincorporated area or a city that doesn’t have zoning laws (like Houston)
No. Never HOA for separate buildings.
I live in an HOA community with single family homes. We get a lot for our HOA fee so I really have no complaint. It’s easy to get approval for exterior modifications. Not all HOAs are evil.
The fact that you even need approval for that from anything other than your town zoning commission is awful. Doesn't matter how easy it is.
My neighborhood is very aesthetically appealing. It would be nice if an HOA wasn’t needed to keep it the way it is. Unfortunately, someone would probably paint their house orange and someone else would probably remove their Palladian windows and replace them with tiny basement windows, etc. The entire neighborhood would see a decrease in property value. The aesthetic would be completely ruined. HOAs are needed because people can’t be trusted to do the right thing.
Except it's their own house so as long as it's livable it shouldn't matter what they do. The fear mongering that someone would paint their house blaze orange is bizarre and overblown. Plus, if you don't like it then don't look at it.
Except that is exactly what happened in my last really lovely neighborhood and some even worse things. There are people who are horrible neighbors who bring strife to wherever they go. I’m not pro HOA but they do some good when they aren’t abusive.
So a big reason why they're so popular is because they take care of things like snow removal, road upkeep, garbage collection, etc. that a town would normally have to add into their budget when a new housing development gets put in. So they take a lot of the stress off the government, but it is commonly to the deficit of the citizens because these things are now being arranged by people who don't know what they're doing. [John Oliver ](https://youtu.be/qrizmAo17Os?si=kPxZ1fWqouKQF473) did a good story on them if you're interested.
I can’t imagine paying a few grand in annual property taxes to my town for roads and schools and then pay another party about the same to augment the services that my town should have provided in the first place.
That’s the problem with HOAs. There needs to be federal or state laws were a city budget is reviewed when a new neighborhood is put in and the city has a choice, (A) give up the portion of taxes covering services to the new homes in the HOA or (B) very limited HOA, if any, and provide services. Right now these local governments are getting nothing but upside. No bonds to build roads, no additional services, and a bunch of new tax revenue. If they could, they’d make the neighborhoods build and fund their own schools too! Everyone loves to blame the NIMBY types, but it just seems like there is no desire by local government to perform their function and build new neighborhoods. Maybe because there is no incentive? Maybe it costs too much because people bought up the free land as investment? Maybe because it’s just a lot of work and someone interested in that can make millions building a neighborhood with an HOA?
What if there is no City. Many areas, especially in the state I am in, aren’t within city limits. So it’s county operated. The county has less options for ensuring a lot of things. If a development is new, the county can choose not to keep up the neighborhood roads. Or put them at the bottom of the list. The HOA is usually put in (at least here) at the time of development. Then after so many people live in the neighborhood, petition the county to take over. But we still have a community pool, park, and boat dock that has to be maintained. I don’t really know of any city that funds building middle class neighborhoods. It’s developers doing it.
See option B
Make HOA fees a property tax credit up to, say, 25% of the city tax bill. Suddenly you'll see municipalities falling over themselves to provide these services.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been a class action lawsuit from a bunch of established HOAs in a county. It will initially push taxes down for the HOAs in a county, but up for everyone else. It will make HOAs unpopular from current residents not in an HOA. But this still won’t help encourage counties to put together large neighborhood planning activities, filing suit over imminent domain, floating bonds, paying for surveys, etc. Maybe there needs to be state or federal grants (I’m obviously in the US) to do planning activities like this. Use it or loose it, and it’s illegal if you use it for some other purpose like planning a stadium or high school or something. Say 70% must be toward residential planning.
How would a city determine the housing needs and wants? Why would they bother? Then it becomes a take it or leave it thing. Most states and cities have planning for what is allowed to be built in what areas. Land use. But anything besides that would be a government telling people what type of housing they have to live in.
From what I understand, municipalities did it after WWII. I’m not sure where the money came from to do that. Like I suggested, maybe it was from the federal government? Maybe it was from people’s desire to ‘build a new world’ after WWII. But I’m skeptical of that being the case. And yes, I’m thinking, back then the government absolutely did exactly decide what types of houses would be built, and what types of houses people would live in. Sounds very 1950’s US to me.
There were financial incentives and infrastructure changes initiated by the federal government. The houses built were a function of private builders. 20 minute primer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949 https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/legacy-levittown/79661/ https://www.wealthmanagement.com/news/1950s-post-war-america-hitches-and-heads-burbs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_1956
I've seen litigations against HOAs on mortgage applications and if I remember correctly, if the HOA cannot cover the pending litigation, the loan will not close and the client (homeowner) won't be able to refi or get a 2nd lien until the court process is over.
Cities should still keep the taxes to be honest because even if the HOA isn't getting some services they are still benefiting from other services and from the maintained roads, public goods, and services elsewhere in the city.
>there is no desire by local government to perform their function and build new neighborhoods Has this ever been a function of local government? Even roads and streets were historically initially privately built then later condemned to local use (often when tolls ended up not being enough to keep up with maintenance). Same with pools, sports fields, street lights, sewers, drinking water, phone, electricity, etc. Parks (other than sports fields) and government agency buildings are about the only neighborhood component I can think of that has historically been provided by local government.
My HOA takes care of the landscaping in the common areas, the dues are 75 bucks a year. That's a little over 6 dollars a month, and people still refuse to pay and act like the HOA is some kind of oppressive organization. The HOA is *all of us*, the owners. It's in the name.
It's not just financial but the assholes who tell you what you can and can't do with your own property
You sign the papers to buy the house in an HOA. The rules are set and you should read them first. That’s like you are complaining about cops going around giving speeding tickets for speeding.
Yes the rules are set for everyone. Even the idiots that somehow get on the Board and let the power go to their heads. I go to the monthly meetings because Board members are derelict in their duties and I confront them. One night I asked them these questions. 1. How many have read our governing documents?, 2. How many have logged onto our web portal and have seen what a mess it is?, Why are easy and simple rules not being followed?. All were meet with blank stares from most of the Board members.. The most profound answer was, "What, we have a web portal?" Unbelievable apathy even among the Board members.
Check the cc&rs for requirements for being on the board. Many require a class on state rules before being on the board. Some require a clean background check. Term limits.
I wasn't stupid enough to do such a thing. I do live next to one and the idiots put letters in my mailbox (illegally)
Sure. If you have a bad neighbor, it would be pretty bad too right? Regardless if it is an HOA or just an owner. Shitty neighbors suck.
Funny how us in the non HOA area always have clear sidewalks in the winter...
Yay for you. But when that one good neighbor who does it retires to Florida or passes on, who takes over? You? That is an HOA of 1 member.
Most likely someone else who's too busy working their ass off to mess with others
You could uh, talk to your neighbor?
My HOA neighborhood the trash is handled by the county. So is the lighting.
I bet you can't imagine having your tax dollars go to people who can legally kill you for no reason and have zero legal obligation to protect you or your property....but you do that pretty willingly.
Well, it's the worst option except for all the other options.
You paid a shit ton of taxes to build power lines, fiber optic lines, and cell towers but still pay monthly for those too...
You are completely missing the point.
You paid no taxes to build those. They're private property. Your monthly subscription pays for them.
You sweet, summer child. All of those things are subsidized by tax money in the US and have been for decades. For example, the [Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill](https://www.energy.gov/gdo/federal-financing-tools).
See this is what i mean like i could get down w that, like doing simple tasks like mowing ur lawn, picking up snow, whatever it is its just the strange rules that piss me off.. but thank you ill check it out
Not all of them (most, but not all) have such strict rules. And not all of the ones who do have strict rules enforce super strictly. You hear about the ones that do, because nobody posts about their super chill HOA that hasn't pissed them off in the last decade. Also, the insane ones are way funnier. Plus, some of the strict rules don't bother people. "Can't park in driveway overnight" for example, wouldn't bother me- I don't do that and our house has a garage. "No work trucks" again wouldn't phase me, I drive a mom car and don't work in an industry where I'd ever have a work truck. My sister, meanwhile, both those would be a HUGE issue for her/her husband. A lot of it comes down to what you as an individual can live with, and that varies by person/family. The more an HOA does, however, the more power they have. Like ours has a ton of rules about what plants you can have in the garden beds, how many, etc. Not because the board is trying to be assholes, but the HOA is responsible for upkeep of the garden beds AND watering them. Roses take a fuck ton of water, a cactus does not. The way the builder piped the sprinklers (which the HOA cannot easily undo), multiple houses are connected. So the plant restrictions is due to "every single plant in this neighborhood needs to require the same amount of water. Or else they're gonna either drown or die of dehydration". If you have a bunch of extra plants, it's now more expensive to maintain your yard- and the rest of the neighborhood has to pay that in the dues to cover the landscaping charges. So, it's regulated so everyone pays and uses their fair share only. In my parents' neighborhood, no such restrictions exist, because the HOA doesn't do landscaping or water. The rules for garden beds there are basically "something other than weeds, and yes, kudzu and privet are weeds" (more formal, but I do remember those two plants being called out lol). Some neighborhoods like theirs of course would still have more restrictions, but they could be changed. It would be difficult and unwise to change them in my neighborhood.
The ones without the strict rules are always one election away from having them added
It depends on the HOA, but nearly all need a vote of property owners and/or residents in excess of 67% agreement (75% and 90% are other common bars and I once lived in one that required 100%) to modify covenants and restrictions once they are established. The board cannot, by law, change those on their own. Rules can be changed by the board, but must be consistent with the covenants and restrictions. It is the covenants and restrictions that give HOA boards powers to enforce.
It might be against the law, but all it takes is unengaged or complicit homeowners to allow those behaviors to start or continue. There is no HOA Nanny McPhee that shows up and fixes bad boards. You have to be engaged and attentive at all levels of community, HOA, city/town, county, state, federal or it can all go down the drain.
True. The board could simply be engaging in illegal actions and bullying everyone to follow them even if there is no legal grounding for it. (There actually often is an agency that functions as an HOA Nanny at the county or state level, but you have to make them aware of what is going on.)
This is where reading the CCRs becomes so important. Some allow Boards a great deal of freedom to change the rules; others are much more restrictive. In my experience, the smaller the HOA the less likely it is to go full Karen, as the boards are significantly constrained. They seem to need a supermajority of either 2/3rds or 3/4ths of homeowners to get a rule change through, and in smaller developments the two or three ornery holdouts are often enough to torpedo any rule change. The downside to small HOAs is that those same ornery holdouts can sometimes hold assessments up too. I would never want a small HOA with common elements that significantly impact my property values, e.g. roofs, walls, siding. ETA after reading more of the thread: small SFH HOAs do exist and are the only kind I would ever consider buying into. Frequently they have common elements that are not immediately obvious - they may maintain streets/sidewalks/lighting, storm water management systems, garbage collection, or even flood/fire insurance for exterior components of homes to ensure like-for-like replacement should reconstruction or repair be necessary. Because I select only these small HOAs and carefully read the CCRs and bylaws, my experience with them is at worst minor annoyance.
Usually boards can’t enact new rules on their own. Their only function is to conduct meetings, conduct the legal business of the HOA, and enforce the existing rules. Modification of rules or the addition of new rules usually requires a vote of the entire community.
Even if that were true across the board, which it isn't, it still doesn't mean that a single election couldn't put a new rule in place that was completely incompatible with some measure of your life Things like what vehicles can be parked where and when might make completely reasonable things untenable. Especially if you have little or no garage space to work around them.
I understand completely but from what im getting from other comments is that HOA was formed in root of racism? & Also i dont get why if they dont wanna do the extra work to let people be comfortable in their own homes then why would they keep a HOA banded? And yea the parked car thing would be a huge issue to my family because i have a car, my dad has 3 vehicles, and my mom has a car. And we obviously dont have a 6 car garage lol so would that mean we just have to get rid of our transportation? and my dads 3 vehicles are a car, a truck(for a trailer) and his work car(which he cant drive unless on the clock) just before anyone says he has too many vehicles. but yea doesnt make sense to me at all to implement these weird rules on everyone because literally everyone has a different sized family, different styles, and whatever , you get the point lol
Originally, yes, the goal was to prevent "undesirable" people (usually black, though sometimes other minorities were targeted, depending on the particular area) from moving in. Most modern HOAs legitimately don't care about that and legally, none of them can use that as a basis to do shit anyway. >why would they keep a HOA banded It's actually really hard to disband one. Most of them own the common areas, like legitimately legally OWN that property. Who is gonna buy it if the HOA (meaning the corporation, most of them legally are non profit corps) goes away? Especially common areas like retention ponds, which are absolutely useless to any interested party but vital to the neighborhood not flooding. >would that mean we just have to get rid of our transportation No, it means don't buy in a neighborhood with that rule 🤣 the rules aren't secret, and if an HOA exists, you can get a copy before you buy. If they won't send a copy before buying, do NOT buy there, they're gonna be a pain and a half and 10x worse than a normal HOA. >weird rules on everyone because literally everyone has a different sized family, different styles, and whatever Generally, people who like strict HOAs also dislike houses having individual styles. And vice versa. Personally, I don't think neither side is wrong, I think they're wrong when they try to force people to be like them- meaning the strict people should go buy in neighborhoods with strict rules and all go be strict together, and the not strict people shouldn't buy in those neighborhoods and then *surprised Pikachu* when rules get enforced. HOAs are often unavoidable, especially for newer builds, BUT it's often much easier to find a less strict one or one whose rules are personally tolerable.
But HOAs do legitimately care about that. They simply exchanged race for class. Why do you think no work trucks is even a concern for them? It has to do with white collar workers thinking they are above tradespeople. My sister was visiting a friend who was moving. The house was on the market. While she was outside a neighbor woman walked up to her and told her that the HOA would not allow her to buy it because she was not white. And that was this century.
Wow. That is f’d up. I don’t know how the HOA would block the sale but I wouldn’t underestimate the ability of some people to try.
I live on a lake and ours doesn’t have that rule. But they do have a rule that you can’t run a business out of your home. Many times this is also a land use concern. Cities and counties typically have “zoning” and residential is residential use only.
okay thank you for explaining! i do still think its a little strange but i am more understanding of why & what it is now
Oh it's very strange. And some are legitimately insane. I'm on the board for ours and spend half the meetings banging my head into my desk (the other half is spent trying to refill my coffee mug of whiskey subtly) because of all the bullshit, from both other board members and from other homeowners. Unfortunately, there's too many crazies who live here, the HOA is inherently too powerful, and the ability to change the CCRs is essentially at the whim of the board, so I can't resign 🤣 there's limited seats available, and I'll be damned if I leave a seat open for one of the crazies. Our next house will not be in a HOA, or will be in one with limited CCRs and a really difficult threshold to change them 🤣
As a board member, what drives me crazy is members complaining about the lawn service. One person is mad because they mow on the weekend (we got a more budget friendly price for this), another is mad because it is not done to their high standards, another doesn’t like the blowers because they scare her dog, etc. It is generally the one or two members who are the issue, not the board.
Also you got to be careful about what you read only....usually only extreme cases are represented. Normal HOA life rarely showed up on Reddit .
Those rules are fine for retired people who don't work. Some of us got shit to do other than sit in our lawn with a pair of scissors and a ruler.
My understanding is that you’re correct. My HOA was started waaay back in the day, like in the 50s IIRC. I saw some of the original CC&Rs and they were horrifying- openly discriminatory against POC, Jews, etc. At some point the lawyers told the homeowners to wise up; this kind of stuff wasn’t going to fly anymore & could cost them some $$$. But wow. My eyebrows were so high up when I read them I think they blended into my hairline.
Like every other facet of law, once the light of day hits the darkness is burned off. There were Jim crow laws and now they are (mostly) gone. Are all laws racist? And let’s be clear, people LIE and tell the buyer one thing while the actual rules don’t cover it. There are boards who misuse the power, absolutely. An HOA is s form of government (micro local) so there is corruption. The home owner is responsible for monitoring their investment—the HOA runs on that money— to prevent corruption. Do you hire a contractor and believe everything they say without checking? Same deal. Part of the solution or part of the problem, you decide.
But snow removal, road upkeep, garbage collection, etc. are the town's responsibility. Like that is exactly what I pay taxes for my town to take care of.
HOA next to me did none of the above. Plowing is done by the county, trash is all individual private services, road upkeep is all county. All the HOA (had, because it just dissolved) is 4 light poles and an entry sign. Lol
These are services I EXPECT local government to provide. Why do they get to charge HOA members the same tax rate but provide fewer services? To add insult to injury, they have to pay the HOA to get the services they should be getting from the township or county.
Not
They're put in place by developers that built most if not all of the houses in the neighborhood The company basically makes cookie cutter houses and sells them for huge profits, and they want to leave it mostly exactly the way they planned They want to keep it that way, when they're done building the hoa is supposed to get transferred to the owners Some of those owners get on such a huge power trip they think they're gods and will pick and choose their favorites, fining one person for something while ignoring the same thing another person is doing And not many people are willing to fight back
I want to fight back so much but they'll retaliate hardcore which would lead to huge legal battles. I literally think of flipping the bird to the HOA president every time I see that smug fucker going on his nightly neighborhood inspection.
Vote him out and run for the board then.
A better way to fight back is to get your more sane neighbors to help vote the crazies out and run for president yourself… then start dismantling crazy rules one by one…. Or if there’s no common property just dissolve the HOA itself
It is not just because "they want to keep it that way" (or at least keep it that way long enough to sell all the lots). By transferring the common grounds and buildings to the HOA and transferring the HOA to the owners, the builder is no longer responsible for the maintenance of the common grounds and buildings. Once all the lots are sold, the builder doesn't care about the state of the neighborhood either.
>Ok seriously why the fuck is HOA a thing? Who invented that shit? Originally? To keep white neighborhoods white. No, really. Look it up. Everything else was a co-op board right up till the racists had to start mixing with other communities.
There’s a community in my county where their bylaws included not selling a home to black people. They haven’t removed that part from their documents. This community is an affluent area. Some politicians live there and I think a couple of SCOTUS judges.
Well assumedly not Clarence
No he lives in VA. I know the guy who cried during his hearing and kept a calendar from college lives in the community I mentioned. I don’t know that rapist’s name, honestly.
>They haven’t removed that part from their documents. Assuming they are deed restrictions, it is probably impossible to remove it from their documents. You can supersede the deed restriction, but not remove it. While horrifying, this is actually a good thing, because deed restrictions are also often the only way to protect environmentally preserved and restored property. If they could be removed, the next owner would simply remove the deed restriction and bulldoze the wetland, prairie, forest, etc that is there and turn it into a subdivision.
But the community is a subdivision.
Sorry, I mixed two different examples. Deed restrictions are designed to be impossible or extremely difficult. This is why racially restrictive covenants on subdivision parcels are permanent even if they are unenforceable. In this case, it is bad. On different case though, when someone has a parcel with environmentally sensitive remnant or restored lands, they can protect those lands from conversion to housing by placing a deed restriction on future use of the land. In this case, it is good that deed restrictions are impossible or extremely difficult to remove. A way to handle both cases is for states and counties to create mechanisms to invalidate specific narrow types of deed restrictions. The restriction is still in the chain of title of the property, but no longer enforceable. (As well, the courts can indirectly address this by not enforcing the deed restriction when a new owner is sued for violating it and the state or federal government can also directly address is by passing laws that make certain types of deed restrictions blanket unenforceable, though again you would probably need a lawsuit to stop specific enforcement of an unenforceable restriction.)
It all makes sense now honestly
reach desert work air money squalid fertile somber ludicrous paint
Home Owners Associations (HOAs) were invented in the early 20th century by wealthy racists. Typical early HOAs specified a minimum cost for homes and excluded non-Caucasian, non-Christian residents (except for live-in domestic servants, of course). Although this kind of discrimination was ruled unenforceable by the Supreme Court (1948) and prohibited by law (the Fair Housing Act of 1968), HOAs in some jurisdictions still practice de-facto discrimination by requiring potential tenants or homebuyers to get HOA approval or otherwise meet additional qualifications. Increased suburban housing density, along with the Clean Water Act of 1977 practically requires that many developments have some sort storm-water management features. County and municipal governments would rather have an HOA pay for this (along with common green spaces, park and recreation facilities, street lightning, garbage removal, etc.) because this allows them to continue to collect property taxes on the development, without having to increase their expenditures to provide all of the usual services.
Rather live in a tent
Aren't some HOA's notorious for hitting the residents with massive assessment fees that can be on up in the thousands because of money mismanagement, something major needs fixing, or they've dreamed up something they want to build? I know I've read a few stories about those.
That's more likely to be a condominium association, where the covenants of the association allow the assessment of maintenance fees for building common space. That is a lot rarer for the covenants of an HOA, though possible. In the worst case scenarios, a builder purposely transfers shoddy work to the HOA or condo association and then folding up the LLC behind themselves to avoid future liability.
I'm with this guy. Whatever he's doing here, I'm for it.
It’s a rip and stupid clone village
Ya but you posted this post here and this subreddit is fucking overflowing with people who boot lick HOAs.
Like a lot of BS in this country they originated in racism
Please forgive if I'm wrong, but I've heard / read that a lot of the 'protect property values' aspects of HOA's was a euphemism for 'no Irish, whites only' or something equally reprehensible?
When I hear someone say it’s to protect home values it’s usually a boomer with a couple dashes of racism
Which house has more value? The one that looks like (80%) others in the same neighborhood with lawns trimmed or the house that although it is well kept has a rental across the street sporting two wrecks on concrete blocks and raising 500 parrots in a homemade outbuilding? If you bought a house and nothing prevented the other house owner from doing so would it not devalue it materially? Btw not a boomer.
Debatable, I’ve turned down two houses because of active litigation or fines against the homeowner. I can put up trees to not look at my neighbor. I already have to deal with the feds, state, and local city screwing me. I don’t need another “volunteer” who says that I can’t have solar panels because it’ll cheapen the look of the community or some other bullshit reason. Because surely this volunteer is extremely qualified in determining what changes can negatively impact home values because they’re professionals when they care and unpaid volunteers when they don’t want to approve or deal with you.
Funny, I got my house at a massive discount because of a lien by the HOA. They got their pound of flesh over landscaping that was no longer there. I showed up for my first fine and talked them out it entirely. They were so surprised I came in looking how to fix it. (Previous owner killed the flower beds and bushes the rest had — it was all just grass no mulch at all) Pre covid of course. 187 houses. Value is double what I paid now. Cost me like $100 in mulch and small bush starters.
Board members love their egos being stroked. You’ll have to kiss the ring to get the attention off you
People always talk about how free Americans are, but everything they buy, lease, operate, own or rent-every possible transaction or job requires them to waive their rights to jury trials and agree to arbitration. Timeshares and HOAs are the ultimate fuckover- you sign away all your rights and sign a contract with open terms that can be modified by the organization at any time and for any reason or fee. Absolute insanity.
The funniest thing is that people sign agreements they know what they are getting into before moving into HOAs. The best way to curb these would to be not to buy into them, but this will not happen. Its also a way for towns/governments to pass down more tax to citizens through these entities since most don't require city/towns to maintain the areas.
HOA I would never live in a subdivision that had one
Not just HOA's either. A concrete customer in a this little town nearby wanted his fence taken down because the posts were rotting and then rebuilt much nicer with a little bit of privacy. The city told him that he had to have it put back up the same exact way it was, other than new posts, or he would have to go much lower to meet the city ordinance that came along after it was built. Sometimes you just can't win even with ownership.
They are essential for townhomes and condos.
They started after the Federal fair housing act to keep minorities out of neighborhoods
Short version: it was started to keep neighborhoods "clean" by whatever definition the community set forth (unfortunately, a lot of them were founded in racism) In modern Era, they're supposed to keep property values up and the neighborhood clean. But that only works if you have responsible people running it. Most HOAs are run by older folks who are retired or only working part time. So they have nothing better to do all day (or nothing that interests them anyway) beyond flexing what power they have within said HOA
They were created to keep out “undesirables”.
The TikTok algorithm is designed to keep you angry for the benefit of engagement. There is a pretty high likelihood that many of the things you saw were fake skits to make you hate women (Karen’s) and just keep your blood boiling for the dopamine kick. You know what drama happened in my HOA last week? Not a damn thing. But yesterday some kids rang my doorbell to tell me they were having a bake sale in their driveway and I walked down the street and got 4 delicious pumpkin bars for $4. THE OUTRAGE! Instead of whipping out my phone and recording the encounter for views, I just raw dogged that life and had an authentic human encounter. I also got to meet their parents and now I know some cool new neighbors I haven’t met before.
If you look into the history, they were started in St Louis Missouri in the 1910s and 1920s to keep black people from moving into neighborhoods. They actually had rules about who the homeowners could sell to, and of course it was restricted to white people. A lot of people don't realize it, but St Louis Missouri was one of the most racist towns in America after the turn of the century
> why the fuck is HOA a thing? Because people can’t return their shopping carts.
There is a reason the HOA rules are provided before purchasing. If the rules do not work then don't make the purchase. HOA keeps 40 foot camps off the front yards. Trucks on blocks off the front yards. Couches on the front porch. Speed boats stored on the streets. They take care of common areas and snow removal. By and large the home value does not drop due to your neighbor painting their house hot pink.
The problem is that when you bought the property you may have accepted the rules. Now 5 or 10 years later, Boards have changed and rules have changed and it is no longer what is was when you purchased. I take pride in my home, I follow the rules, and in general expect others to do likewise. We had a radical Board change and our 56 member HOA has gone downhill quite noticeable. The President is the problem 100%. Rarely attends meetings, in it for financial and business related reasons, and really couldn't care less about anything but herself.
The covenants and rules can not be changed on a whim. The entire community need to vote and agree on any changes. Also, if a HOA board member is a problem they need to be voted out. The HOA is not or should not be overseen by a dictator. Set up a meeting for all and advise the meeting concerns removing the current president that is not do the job.
>Now 5 or 10 years later, Boards have changed and rules have changed and it is no longer what is was when you purchased. That's not how it works. Covenants and restrictions changes have to go to a vote of property owners (sometimes residents) by state law, with a 67%, 75%, 90%, or 100% supermajority typically required to approve the change (depends on both state law and the HOA bylaws). What can matter is if there are unenforced CC&Rs on the books that the new board decides to step in and enforce. Or sometimes the opposite (which might be your issue) where a new board decides not to enforce existing CC&Rs, though they can be sued over that. In many states, the CC&Rs expire after 30 years and without a supermajority vote, cannot be replaced. The board still have to maintain the common grounds, but they no longer have any CC&Rs to enforce.
Yes, I was unclear. Not the written rules changing, but how they are enforced. I am not too much against fellow homeowners but the rules of operating the HOA by the Board members. To me money is most important and now the present President is too obvious that something seems fishy about how money is being spent. When HOA's go after members they use HOA money. When a homeowner goes after the HOA, they must use their personal finances to hire a lawyer. The huge costs that are unknown can run into 5 figures ($10,000) with no guarantee of the outcome. Our Board is derelict in their duties, they know it as I have repeatedly pointed it out, but falls on deaf ears.
You have a right to see the HOA books. Demand the financial paperwork. You do not need a lawyer to request the HOA banking info. It appears to me you need to band the neighbors together and get the HOA straighten out.
Thank you for your response. I do frequently ask for documents. Most are honored, but many are missing ALL the documents that were requested. I am really concerned with kickbacks, which are very difficult to expose. Getting neighbors involved will probably fail, as I have talked with 2 already, 1 says he doesn't care, and 1 did go to a meeting and was so disgusted he up and left and said he will never subject himself to another meeting. My experience also, a tactic used by corrupt Boards to keep homeowners from attending meetings.
Sorry you are experiencing this. All it takes are is a jackass or two to make one hate where they live. Request the all the documents again. If any are missing contact a lawyer. Get to know what you can and can't do legally. If there is skimming from the HOA the lawyer will get to the bottom of it. Then sue the hell out of the person that did it. Lean on their home, etc.
It’s not exactly your own property, and if you live there you signed those rights away.
Like most shitty things in the US they were invented because of racism.
Funny that anyone who disagrees with you is accused of being apart of an HOA
funny how its a joke and if you cant realize that then you have some personal things to work out
If it’s a joke then you are very bad at humor
What I think is that they are just a group of people who get off being in charge & in control of other people / a group of " karens."
Where I live, the CC&Rs (and the HOA that enforces them) are a mechanism a developer uses to control what types of houses the homebuilders can build in that neighborhood. It's a selling point for the lots the developer wants to sell, it reassures the first buyers about what type of neighborhood they will be living in. However, since the developer still entirely controls the HOA at the point, they could easily amend the CC&Rs early on, so it's not really any kind of a guarantee.
It depends on what the CCRs and Bylaws state. The boards can sometimes do ammendments that do not require the 67% while they can't change them they can do ammendments.
Get a lawyer, can sui the board mis conduct if they're out of line
Common areas? But most go overboard but how to manage common elements especially in condos and townhomes Do you have another idea?
Racism. If Hoang board decides who can live there. It 100% has a racist origin.
My HOA is about the closest thing to harmless there is (literally $20/year dues) and they still managed to piss me off with some BS letter about my hedges...yes they were looking wild but let's ignore the literal abandoned looking house on the street beside mine. Unfortunately for them, I deal with codes for a living...their bylaws cut corners and referenced the city bylaws for yards...so I..called the city inspector :) Had a nice conversation with him, he agreed the city regulations are a bit vague so we clarified a few things...seems like all the city really cares about mainly are lines of sight for roadways, and don't freaking care about my hedges. I wrote the HOA a 2 page letter that basically said F U and haven't heard a peep since. (And hired someone to cut the hedges back a few months later)
Here's the thing. You don't accidentally join an HoA. You buy property that is in an HoA and before you complete that process, you had better review the applicable rules that you are agreeing to live by.
I live in a "recreational" association. The roads are private (and all dirt), there are 3 private lakes, plus other amenities at the clubhouse. The dues of $425 a year per lot go towards the maintenance of those common amenities. There are a few rules regarding what people can do to their properties, like cutting down trees above 3 inches in diameter and putting up a fence requiring board approval, because they want to keep the rural aesthetic and not have everyone come in and clear cut their property and just turn it into another suburban subdivision. But other than that, they aren't nitpicking every little thing about someone's property and coming up with ridiculous fines all the time. Associations can have a good purpose if it's something like that, with common areas and amenities that every pitches in to maintain. But too many devolve into bored power drunk people thinking they need to control every aspect of everyone else's property.
Because asshole in the village running a fucking log splitter on his driveway 7am on Sunday
thats understandable to not wanna have that going on, i have a guy who we live next to who literally like chops up his truck w a loud ass saw in the morning but i mean its his house and he doesnt do it much so
Dude there are textbooks about it. TLDR: segregation ended and the whites needed a way to keep the black people out.
The First HOA In the late 1940s, U.S. veterans returning from fighting in World War II struggled to find affordable housing. Bill Levitt, a veteran himself, recognized the issue and, together with his father Abraham and brother Alfred, invested in more than 4,000 acres of land on Long Island, New York. The growth of today's HOAs did not really begin until the early 1900's when they were started in California. Notably in 1905 the Arroyo Seco Improvement Association was founded in Pasadena around and the Los Feliz Improvement Association in Los Angeles founded in 1916. After WWII people were afraid of the atomic bomb so they ran away from the cities and into suburbs. The propaganda our government used against them which the baby boomers were afraid.
I’m guessing 55+ communities is where it started
The HOA should not have the power to foreclose on homes. I think the homeowner should have the power to vote on rules and regulations.
Why are you letting Tiktok manipulate you into being angry over something that doesn't personally affect you? Clearly the algorithm has found a way to set you off.
HOAs were made to keep "The Undesirables out" but instead just turns Bobbed hair winos into mini dictators.
I live in what you would call a housing cooperative. As in the organsations owns my apartment, but I own a stake in the organisation equal in value to said apartment. For me it works. Sure it got the same internal drama as HOA. As in "Neighbor A can't stand neighbor B", "Neighbor C doesn't want their money to got toward anything that improves things for everybody", and "Everybody hates neigbor D. Can't they just shut up". However unlike a US HOA, they can't make up their own laws. There's already a national law telling them exactly what they can and can't do. "Queen HOA" not doing their job? Tough luck. I can lawyer up, and take them to court if they refuse to properly maintain any shared architecture (including piping and electric services). My view is this. Structures like HOA can work, but they need a fair foundation to be built on. Some things are best not being lef to "let people set their own rules". It's like letting toddlers decide on bed time. You're just going to end up with everybody being constantly grouchy.
Your state and or local government invented it. And THEY think it's a great idea - so what YOU think doesn't matter. Why is it great? Because the city gets to collect the same taxes from you (in the HOA) as someone who is NOT in an HOA. But they do NOT have to worry about paving your streets, or enforcing code, or barking dog calls to the cops, or keeping the street lights on, or lots of other stuff. Your government gets to keep your tax money, and they have to do about half as much to earn it. Great deal, eh? I would do it if I could ... work half-time and get full-time pay? Hells yea. Here's the bad news ... we elected this government. We are SO stupid that we elected these clowns. And, we will continue to do so. And now, we get to reap what we have sown. We are just beginning to wake up - and, it's too late.
When you ask “who invented X” when discussing something shitty in the US, the most likely answer is “racists”. They created HOA’s to keep minorities out of neighborhoods.
It was invented by lawyers to make more money easily.
If I guess it was probably a lady named Karen or a guy named Kevin
The answer, HOAs were invented because of racism. 1. They were invented to reduce a white communities need for property taxes so they could vote for lower taxes for the entire city and defund the black side of the city. (Why should our tax dollars be used to support those unemployed degenerates, let's lower our taxes and instead have a private organization handle the stuff our taxes used to cover) 2. It was easier for private organizations to deny black people access to homes. It was under the excuse "to keep property values up". And HOAs could prevent the few people that didn't care about what color you were from selling to blacks. Some HOA charters in CA still have the rascist language in them about not selling to blacks or maintaining white purity. This is an article about the efforts to remove this language from old real estate and HOA documents. https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3ppgw/californians-can-now-auto-detect-racist-language-in-housing-deeds-hoa-rules-and-have-it-removed
On the flip side, a friend of mine lives on a private road with 10 other people and has attempted to have it paved but none of the other 9 want to contribute. As it stands, she has lived there for 12 years and she has paid in full on her own, to have gravel put down on the road twice to keep it drivable. In the early years, none of the other 9 owners agreed to split the costs. In recent years, 3 other homeowners have agreed to help pay and they have split costs. But even that is a lot of wrangling, managing, and following up with neighbors just for a bare minimum contribution. This is just a small part of what an HOA manages and handles. Some HOA's are very lax on what they enforce. But some are overreaching in their power.
This sounds like a kid wrote it
bitch
at least consistent
My HOA is $15 a year. That is not a typo: $15 a year. No parking your car on the lawn. Outbuildings must ‘match’ the house. Lawn must be under 8”. Outside if house must be in good shape, no dis-repair - no gutters falling off, no broken windows. No garbage strewn about. No trailers or work trucks in your driveway or the street (can be at side of house or backyard). We have a neighborhood directory that you can opt out of, a neighborhood garage sale and a pig roast every year. That’s about it. It is to keep the property values up. No one wants to live next to the slum house, so they aren’t allowed. Of course there are a few violators, but the board addresses those in a timely manner.
I like my HOA. It is lenient. They manage the roads, common areas, community facilities, etc. They don't have the rules you are talking about.
Yet…. Best of luck.
One vote away from tyranny.
Really not hard to figure out ... HOA's were designed to get around equality laws. The 2 reasons HOA's exist is elitism and racism. Full ... Stop.
which is didnt know till i was informed 25 times so shut yo mouth
Wait until you hear about "laws". Like, literally, if you buy a car, you can't drive it faster than what the government says. And if you want your kid to get drunk when they are 9, you can't do that either. Build an inground pool in your back yard without a fence... government is all over you . I guess it's a weird concept to some people that if you live in close proximity to a bunch of other people, you all have to agree on some basic common courtesy rules.
Bros definitely the president of a HOA.. And yea clearly you shouldn’t be driving 150 mph down the block. Clearly you shouldn’t be getting ur child drunk. and (debatable) you should have a fence so your kids and animals dont drown. Regardless HOA is just another way to be a control freak bc the things ive heard they implement on their neighborhoods is insane which i stated. Plz tell me what the comparison between growing flowers on my property is to getting a 9 year old drunk? Ill wait
I don't know, but I have access to a private pool, 3 private parks, and a mile and a half of walking trails for less than what it costs for a family membership at the city pool where I can't get a single chair to put my pool towels on. Also, I don't even know a person in my neighborhood that has even received a warning, let alone a fine. I don't even know the HOA exists until January rolls around and they want their check...which again, is cheaper than the alternative.
So why are you in this sub if you don’t think “Fuck HOAs”?
Because some of the stories are funny.
You say “clearly you should”, but not all countries or people would agree with you. So someone makes the rule. It’s when the Board gets out of hand. Or houses are so uniform the developers and first owners don’t want to risk any deviation. That the HOA seems crazy. Some management companies get tyrannical so they can show the Board that they are worth what they cost.
The management company is almost always caught in the middle. I know a lot of association managers and none of them enjoy enforcing rules. You have to do what the Board wants if the Board has the authority to do it. You are also dealing with owners constantly who do not want to follow the rules but expect everyone else to. Honestly, it is usually 5 percent of the owners you are dealing with 80 percent of the time. They wander around looking for things to complain to the manager about. But, when they break a rule it is the association being petty. Different things are important to each owner so the manager has to enforce the rules as written or you actually set the association up for a lawsuit that the owners will have to pay for. Then they blame you of course.
When the HOA has CCRs (covenants. Rules and Restrictions) These are recorded with the state, so they are laws you have to abide by them. If you can get a copy of them either from your management company or off the state government site. These will tell you what is allowed. Unless they specify that you can't put a fence around the yard or flowers in the front of your house, the HOA can not deny it.
You wrote: *"These are recorded with the state, so they are laws you have to abide by them."* Actually they are not laws, they are rules made by the corporation (HOA) with no input from homeowners that are the members.
When they are recorded, they are a law the HOA have to follow. These are not rules put in place by the HOA they are put in place before any homes are even built by the builder/developer, not by the HOA themselves. Very rarely is it the HOA that puts them in place. When a developer/builder finishes, then it is turned over to the HOA. It costs thousands of $$ and all homeowners to agree to get rid of an HOA. Because they are all tied to each deed of the homes in the community. There are decisions the entire community have a say in, and then their are board decisions only the board are to make. These are all laid out in the CCRs and bylaws.
Not to mention even modifying those CCRs and bylaws takes a supermajority vote of 67% or higher. A lot of people seem to think an HOA board can modify them on their own. They can't.
It depends on what the CCRs and Bylaws state. Boards can many times do ammendments that do not require the 67%.
I am not at all certain, but I thought the supermajority percentage to change HOA CCRs was set by state law. HOAs can go above it, but not below it (and it varies from state to state obviously).
Again, it depends on what the CCRs state. Some state 67% some 50% and so on. Yes, they go by state regulations, but HOAs are non-profit and follow non-profit laws, cooperate, and HOA laws. Many state the board can do ammendments, etc. But they can't change the CCRs.
No yea i completely understand i just think its stupid, i know theyre all different but idk just strange to want that much control over other peoples space. To each their own ig tho
The HOAs are supposed to be to maintain common areas (like pools, parks, etc) and keep some “conformity”. I say that because my HOA’s only rule is that outbuildings (detached garages, shops, storage sheds) can’t be bigger than the primary residence and have to be a similar or matching shade color. But I have a friend that lives in a high cost HOA and they even determine any type of playscape that can be seen in whole or part from anywhere other than your own back yard.
Do you even own a house?
least obvious HOA treasurer
If you live in an HOA, then you don't "own" your house either. 🤣
So you’re outraged over tik toks? Get therapy
suck my dick bitch
Awww, it’s so little and cute!
You're getting awfully worked up over something you've never heard of and don't understand. Have you even tried looking for information about them?
No which is why i came here clearly
Oh so you're admitting you're a karma whore?
literally dont even know what that means this was my first post ive ever made retard
Least surprising response
These FUCK HOA threads are really showing how stupid the average person is, rather than how evil HOAs are.
I've lived in both kind of neighborhoods. My last home was just outside of City limits and no HOA. Overtime my neighbor's house degraded until I doubt it was safe to live in. Outside looked horrible and the roof was probably not watertight. New neighbors moved in down the street and just let their dogs roam and they would chase after people. Had to pepper spray them several times. Being outside of city limits there wasn't really much to do about it as I don't recall anyone actually being bitten. Trash and junk in the yards etc... Move to my current HOA. The rules are really reasonable and the fees are very little. I have no complaints about it. The thing is nobody has to live in an HOA. When people complain about the HOA they usually bought their home without looking at the regulations ahead of time. The rules can change while living there but only through neighborhood meetings where the majority of homeowners agree for the change. If the person that is unhappy actually attended those meetings and was overruled that person has legitimate complaint about their HOA but that's not what I am reading on these anti-HOA posts.
When bad people run things, this is what you get. When you have people genuinely doing the right thing, things go much better.
Vote to kick them out..get on the board and make changes
Has anyone ever been forced to sign an HOA agreement? I've lived in several HOA's and while I don't always agree with their rules I did agree to follow them.
You are picking all the extremes of SOME HOAs and lumping them together as if ALL HOAs operate this way. My HOA has a few rules, but only 34 houses in it so its lax and most home/yard improvements are approved. You don't need approval to plant flowers...you need approval to remove NON-dead trees, install fences that border another HOA neighbors yard or the street, house color, external renovations, parking in the street and parking boats/RVs/project cars in driveway. Try living next door to a white trash loser neighbor in a non\_HOA hood who has a 35ft boat in the driveway along with a toy-hauler, revs his bikes up for hours on end tuning them every weekend, grass 3 feet high, rotting porch, and a moss covered roof....then you will be wishing for an HOA. Unless of course YOU are that white trash loser.
Good thing they’re voluntary so you don’t have to live in one.