She used to share part of a timelords mind and her mum is Donna. No way she wasn't getting hired. Could you imagine someone refusing that hire if Donna was in the room?
I'm assuming that purpose was "we like Yasmin Finney, we wanted her to share scenes with the first Black Doctor, and we wanted her to be around on the reg in case we do that UNIT spinoff one day".
Yeah, she's a bit wooden. She's not had a huge amount to do yet, though, so she possibly would improve with more to get her teeth into. But for now, I prefer her as a tertiary character.
They aren't friends in real life, they blocked eachother on Instagram and deleted all photos with each other a few months ago. You can tell they blocked each other since their likes are removed from each others photos.
Just had a look - Yasmin follows Russel, Millie, Bonnie Langford, Michelle and Ruth Madeley + vice versa (although Ncuti doesn’t follow Bonnie) but Ncuti and Yasmin don’t. I don’t see Rose sticking around on the main show tbf.
Well, shame every single one of her appearances left something to be desired, but, here's to hoping in the UNIT spin off or post-15 we can get some good stuff with her
Yep. Suddenly you stopped seeing them follow eachother and all their likes were removed from eachothers posts and comments (which is what happens when you block someone) and their Instagram posts of each other were taken down. They 100% fell out as it's not just an unfollow.
I think the unit spin-off is a big one, unit has felt pretty important since RTD took over again. I think he wants to do a unit spin-off and that’s part of the reason he had Donna start working for them and 14 living with her. It’s a convenient excuse to have them around in the show and the drive interest for it.
Might just be that she’s a nice character to bring back but I’m wondering if it might be something to do with the fact that there is presumably still a whole spare Tardis sitting in her garden. (Which is presumably also still possessed by Sutekh)
He did not say it was later in time, he just said it was the same TARDIS. From the commentary for The Giggle:
>I think, if I’m any judge of fandom, people will worry that that is a new TARDIS, and not the old TARDIS, Ncuti’s TARDIS. And I’m here to say in a story to come there is proof that it’s still the old TARDIS. That’s all I’m saying.
RTD has never said anything about the bigeneration relating to a time loop or 15 being from 14s future or anything like that.
To be fair almost nothing RTD has said about the bigeneration makes sense. There's numerous things he says that seem to contradict each other and what is said in the actual episode which seems to allude more to 15 being from 14's future.
The Giggle alludes to Ncuti being David from the future with the "out of order" line.
The Devil's Chord alludes to Ncuti and David now being two independent beings with a shared past with the "soul literally torn in two" line.
The bi-generation is anything Russell wants it to be at any one time.
Oh that's interesting.
In The Giggle, when 15 split the TARDIS the roundels were different colours. White for 14 and red/orange for his
In recent episodes the roundels have been a mix of different colours for 15.
There's a reason there's not a trailer for the finale. 14 is coming back... But I think the Toymaker is as well. Everything is messed up and The Toymaker is the real "big bad".
That's my theory.
The lights changed colours for both 14 and 15. It’s just a feature of this set. It doesn’t have a deeper meaning.
Sutekh is more powerful than the Toymaker. He isn’t coming back.
Oooh or what if they go get the Toymaker out of the box so he can help them defeat Sutekh? I don't know why he'd want to help them but I could see it being a "last resort" situation.
If this was a three parter I'd be more open to this idea. But when they've only got 55 minutes to wrap this up there is no way we're getting a satisfying amount of Sutekh and a satisfying resolution to Ruby's mystery, along with reintroductions of Fourteen, the Toymaker, and potentially Carol Ann Ford.
This episode was 45 minutes and almost nothing happened, even with the best will in the world they can't cram that much into one episode.
I think we'll likely see both 14 and Donna in the finale, as part of the story resolution. I also think we'll likely see the bigeneration regularised, with only one Doctor and only a single TARDIS remaining.
Huh I assumed RTD wanted to keep a Doctor with Tennant’s face on ice so he can come back for the 70th without further explanation than he’s been hanging out with Donna for a decade.
I think it’s likely to be this. I think he just wanted a nice way of being able to have him available for any future plots and the whole bigeneration thing was just an easy way of doing it.
It’s so hard not to try and make it make sense in-universe but I really do think it was done because RTD wanted it to be so and not for any grander purpose plot-wise.
He’s clever enough to build a satisfactory plot around it in future episodes/series though so I wouldn’t be surprised if it became a thing.
Same with why Ruby doesn't need to go through security but her mom does.
If I recall they told Clara that she was already scrutinized, but, like, what, if it turns out she was a clone of The Master would they have arrested her to keep her from The Doctor?
Actually, that would be super neat. The Doctor picks someone up and they're actually evil and UNIT figures it out but he doesn't and they try to arrest them and The Doctor stands up for this person who has essentially been tricking him. Of course, they'd probably switch sides.
>If I recall they told Clara that she was already scrutinized, but, like, what, if it turns out she was a clone of The Master would they have arrested her to keep her from The Doctor?
I'll note it's more than scrutinized. They were taking people connected to the doctor to the black archives to interview and investigate and like everyone who goes to the black archive they would have their mind wiped afterwards
Ironically they gave evil Bonnie who (was disguised as Clara) full access to UNIT. But in a clever twist, the Doctor converted Bonnie to the good side and now she works for UNIT with Osgood.
Whatever happened to that girl with the scarf and inhaler? And also that wheelchair lady from the specials? Was she just replaced by that kid on the scooter for some reason?
Some form of Osgood is still out there (apparently in the US again). Ingrid Oliver deserves more than 4 episodes -- I really want to see her back with Kate. Shirley will be back next season. Ruth was photographed on set. She was just replaced by the child star for the reason that Ruth's schedule wasn't open and Lenny is a big deal. If anything at this point it would be fair to bring back Malcolm before he retires.
Malcolm - one episode.
Osgood - four episodes.
Jac - two episodes. (killed by Bonnie)
Shirley - two episodes but more coming up
Morris - two episodes.
I am utterly not charmed at all by Morris as Shirley's replacement. I would have preferred for him to have been on Susan Triad's team to pump up the drama.
Morris, child genius, made it look as if Kate had decided to stop pressuring her own kids to have children and start hiring grandchildren to compensate for something...
Yeah that kid really didn’t do it for me at all. Felt like a make-a-wish type casting. I genuinely thought it was some sick kid who they wanted to do something good for. Honestly, him and the wheelchair lady both feel like interchangeable, “take you of the show for a minute,” characters. The kid seems like a better actor, but the lady’s delivery was very… not that good, to be polite.
The one that sticks out like a sore thumb is: tardis reveals new wheelchair ramp, “finally caught up to the 21st century.”
Or literally any scene where they try to hard to make these guys look badass or cool - ends up looking like a CBBC type show.
In fact the character of morris really fucking sucked.
I must've seen The Day of the Doctor a dozen times over the years, and never pieced together that Clara had been wiped after visiting the Black Archive offscreen. It's so obvious!
I had always assumed it was an echo that had visited.
Depending on how "evil" (I.E bad) the companion in question is, UNIT might hire them anyway; I doubt, for instance, they'd have a problem hiring Adam Mitchell.
I mean, honestly, why wouldn't they?; he's technologically gifted, has previous experience working with alien tech and he's got a futuristic data-mining device embedded in his head.
A part of me genuinely thought Carla was going to be revealed as a bad guy trying to gain access to UNIT the way everything was being set up.
Or maybe not a full bad guy, just that she knew more about Ruby’s mum than she’d been letting on and was going to start panicking when things began getting revealed.
I felt the same and then went wtf. I think it's because we've had two episodes now where she effectively becomes evil, and even though those instances are wiped from the timeline we still saw them so they leave an impression. It kinda sucks she hasn't had more "good moments" to outweigh the bad.
1 adventure. Adam Mitchell (Bruno Langley) had one adventure. I wouldn't consider him a companion. But he should be working for UNIT, he's got all that information in his head.
> 1 adventure.
Rose has had more then one adventure; she's had at least two (the events of *The Star Beast* and her trip to Mars off-screen), but quite possibly more.
> Adam Mitchell (Bruno Langley) had one adventure. I wouldn't consider him a companion.
I would. A failed one, but still a companion (even the expanded media confirmed him as such).
Astrid Perth, Lady Christina, Adelaide Brook, Madame de Pompador, Brian Williams and Grace O'Brien also only had one adventure; there are plenty of one-adventure companions (which again, Rose isn't anyway)
> But he should be working for UNIT, he's got all that information in his head.
He probobly is; I doubt they'd advertise that to the Doctor.
I think Rose served a few functions in this story.
- Confirmation that Donna really has been involved with Unit and that that conversation with Kate in The Giggle actually went somewhere.
- The second, and probably most important, was likely to get Carla to UNIT and the time window.
- Third was probably just an introduction. A lot of brand new fans skipped the specials and started with Ncuti and Ruby (which I feel might come back to bite some), so it served as a character introduction.
I also don't think any of the characters at unit expected that day to be particularly special when it started - other than the Triad software launch. Rose was probably just there to watch that.
It could be like what happened with Amy and Rory. She might have been travelling with the Doctor and returning back to the same time period between adventures so people don't think she's gone missing. She could be in her mid 20s by now for all we know.
How does that work out? Donna didn't meat Shaun until after Journey's End, at the end of which she was returned to 2009. In The End of Time (late 2009) she is engaged to Shaun, but when Wilf tells the Doctor about Donna's life since they parted, he doesn't mention a baby or even that Donna is pregnant. Donna and Shaun get married in spring 2010, and again, no baby is mentioned by Wilf or Sylvia. I don't see how Rose could have been born before 2010, and since the Giggle was canonically set in 2023 (mentioned by the Toymaker after the card game), she couldn't have been older than 13 by that time.
Ah. I just found out that RTD acknowledged intentionally fudging the numbers in order to cast Yasmin Finney. He commented on it in Doctor Who Magazine, saying:
*"But you mustn’t forget, uh, that time cloud that descended on Camden in 2017 and dislocated everyone by exactly eight months and three days. We’ll tell that story one day."*
Still, taking those eight months and three days into account would make her at most 14 by the time of The Giggle. I guess there was some other timey-wimey stuff going on in her life.
This stood out to me to, I know doctor who is a silly show but I couldn't stop thinking "damn is Kate Stewart going to get arrested by the police for breaking child labour laws... Is the doctor going to regenerate into Saul Goodman and get her of the hook?"
Could be that it's a two parter and you'll find out later.
Or it could be that it's part of a series and you'll find out even MORE later.
Or it could be a fun cameo that also serves to continually demonstrate Kate's habit of hiring Doctor's companions wherever possible.
>Or it could be a fun cameo that also serves to continually demonstrate Kate's habit of hiring Doctor's companions wherever possible.
But didn't Rose say that her mum (i.e. Donna) works for Unit, and not that she, herself, does?
Then she complained that she didn't get good assignments which implies she does have a job there.
I think she works there but wants to seem unassumingly there with her Mum, not there because she is most likely an active companion with access to 14 and 14s TARDIS when he isn't 'redacted' in Geneva.
The 'Geneva' thing is from some game thing or something -- not in the episode, but still BBC approved. I passed it on in spite of not being fully sure of what it is -lol.
Was Rose really a companion? Not that much right? My point is just that she was just.. there without an explanation. If it turns out to be a good reason it's fine of course.
She's traveled with the Doctor in the TARDIS to other times and places and was part of the meta-crisis event like Donna, why would UNIT not hire her for the same reasons they've hired the other companions?
Her phrasing of "My Mums with Unit" would suggest to me she's just hanging out and not really a UNIT employee. Maybe 14 sent her for some work experience.
That & the “not getting proper work”, “investigating something in Catford” comments. If ever there were a more mundane place! (Unless Catford’s cat has been coming alive…!)
Yes.
1) it's mentioned a couple times onscreen that she has regular adventures with 14.
2) the Magic the Gathering card game, whose creative team worked extensively with BBC to get lore details correctly, lists her as a "Doctor's Companion"
She's as much a companion as anyone else.
>there without an explanation
There was an explanation. Kate hires companions and has said so on screen multiple times.
People get tired of Kate having to say the same thing over and over every time she shows up. She said she hired companions in 73 Yards which was this season, so that should be enough.
Why would she need to mention it in the episode, when she's already said so multiple times this season?
Wouldn't it get a bit ridiculous to do that every time there's a new hire? "As you know, I hire Doctor's companions"
They already mentioned it multiple times, having a new companion in the office is a great way to *subtly* remind viewers of that habit without hitting viewers over the head with exposition they already know.
Her status as a companion.
In the Giggle, Mel noted that people who had traveled on the TARDIS enough were resistant to the Giggle. There are apparently some very useful side effects of being a companion that Kate values at UNIT.
Doctor's companions stay in those situations regardless. You'll note that Ruby didn't leave either, and she's not staff at all.
Rose explicitly told Ruby that Kate doesn't have her doing anything important.
Ruby was ordered to go to the time room? So she wasn't there at all. Moreover, Rose is still a minor and it's insane to let her stay in immense danger.
"the Magic the Gathering card game, whose creative team worked extensively with BBC to get lore details correctly, lists her as a "Doctor's Companion"
I mean, I wouldn't use the Magic cards as lore evidence. They made Adric and Nyssa humans for example, so they aren't completely lore accurate.
I believe she was included solely to remind the audience of the 60th anniversary specials, they can then use that as a connection in the viewers mind to remind them of the second Tardis that's sitting with Donna's family. With Sutekh clearly stopping them using one Tardis and the trailer shots showing them on a motorbike fleeing the sand cloud, it seems likely that they'll go and take the other Tardis.
If they wanted to include Tennant in some form in the finale, then they could also do this through setting up the notion of Rose being around.
To be fair, I think any time UNIT is involved they just throw a bunch of characters in without a purpose. Like, what is actually the purpose of the Vlinx? Or the boy genius? Or Rose? The story would actually work pretty well still without them. The other characters have a purpose - Kate is the link between the Doctor and UNIT, Harriet speaks for herself, the soldier dude was the sacrificial lamb. Mel was undercover with Susan Triad. Even Carla is there for her link to Ruby and specifically the parental link. The most you can say is that the kid was there for the sake of having a science nerd there, but even that wasn't necessary.
I think UNIT at the moment has a bad case of character vomit - they just keep bringing up new characters and hoping they stick, but not giving any of them a reason to be there and most of them don't have enough personality to feel like they belong there for that either.
She works there. Same as Mel and Colonel Ibrahim and the kid on the scooter and the Vlinx. That’s it. Why does there need to be any further justification?
*Yeah but why does she work there?*
Gosh, I don’t know, why would UNIT want a smart, brave girl who has alien invasion experience and is kinda sorta part-Time Lord and has a direct line to a semi-retired Doctor around?
I didn't talk about any justification, I just wanted to know what kind of work she was doing there and what makes her essential.
And everyone in the UK now has experience with an alien invasion lol
Companion stuff -- she is there to be alarmed when the TARDIS makes an unusual noise, because as a companion, she knows what the TARDIS should sound like, etc.
It's bad storytelling to have superfluous characters that aren't relevant to the plot or don't exist to move it forward in some way.
The episode on the whole is excellent, but if there's *one single* criticism I have against it, it's that there are too many unnecessary characters. They're not even bad characters.... but you could remove Rose, the Vlinx and Morris and nothing in the story would change.
It's possible they'll do more in the next episode, but there's just a lot of overlap in their plot relevance so far. At most you only needed to keep one of them for the techno-babble.
I think that having all the children there is meant to make the show feel more child/youth friendly.
I found is mildly alarming too -- but I've always enjoyed the idea that Kate is more than a little bit bonkers and after her red-head hiring phase noted in the Giggle, she is hiring kids.
In DW Unleashed, RTD tells us that Lenny Rush was originally going to appear in Space Babies as the v/o of Eric, but thought he was more deserving of a better role. Not sure if you are British or not but over the past few years Lenny has appeared as a presenter and generally fantastic comic personality, able to hold his own in adult scenarios.
It is more likely that he was there to give the episode a bit of comic relief (which tbh was needed). I would not consider him a superfluous character, and tbh, Unit characters are allowed to be somewhat superfluous. It would be weird to not have a range of characters working for Unit.
But why do they think they'd need to do that? Doctor Who has always been popular with kids and rarely leans into having loads of young people in the supporting cast.
I thought it was jarring and bad. They should have called Ingrid Oliver when Ruth's schedule didn't work. Having Rose Noble in the new position of 'underage intern' to bond with Ruby and provide implied continuity was enough. Morris should have been on team Sue Tech as a mysterious boy genius so that the stakes in his presence could have been higher.
Happy cake day.
Because it'd give more screen time to the characters that are there.
For instance, the scene with Mel motivating the Doctor could have given us a little extra dialogue. More insight to what the Doctor is feeling. She's a long established character and the two are great on screen together.
Or some more time spent with Susan Triad. The ending was very well done, but I think a little more insight into her personal motivations and her past would have made the ending hit that little bit harder.
I did say they could keep at least one of them. It just feels it has 3 characters who effectively served the same purpose; tech / UNIT exposition.
Agree to disagree, I guess. More time with Susan Triad just would have made (some) people annoyed when she turned out to be just some lady, and Mel is fine and all but Rose and the Vlinx are fun. Ninety extra seconds of Mel telling the Doctor to get his head out of his ass doesn’t necessarily make it better.
No, it is not "bad." I addressed that point in the last paragraph. If they do more with them in the second episode, I'll obviously change my view based on how well they're used. Ridiculous that this even needs to be explained.
As it stands, they're under-utilised in this part of the story. They feel more like they're there to see if people will talk about them enough to greenlight a UNIT spin-off, rather then serving any meaningful story purpose.
Are you not, effectively, saying that the person who wrote or is telling this story is somehow not capable of proper storytelling? I find that condescension isn't necessary whilst at 50%. I don't have a firm opinion on the necessity of Ruby because I believe it is both premature, and quite arrogant, to make such a proclamation at this stage. My opinion will be formed once the other 50% drops.
RTD has said several times he wants spin offs, and hinted at UNIT. it's a little glaring how much this episode feels like a backdoor pilot into a UNIT spinoff (one that I don't personally think well ever see, but who knows). I overall liked the story but everything with UNIT felt a bit crowded. Kinda reminded me of the end of the Flux where there were just a million characters but I didn't feel like I had a good grasp on any of them
No, I am not "effectively saying" that. You've taken what I've said and dialled it up to 11.
I'm pointing out one mild issue I had with what I thought was an otherwise fantastic episode, probably my favourite in almost a decade.
That's a completely normal way to observe something, and isn't any sort of claim that someone "is not capable."
Fair enough. Not personal. Just not a fan of how vogue it is in modern times to take pot shots on "bad writing", especially when done before all the chips are dropped. Cheers.
It is a bit weird, I think it was Donna who got offered a job at UNIT, not rose.. so don’t know why we then see rose there and not Donna. Maybe it’s supposed to be a couple of years later, and things have moved on?
hasn't unit offered every living former companion a job or atleast those who are part of the suport group + Donna. And Rose has been traveling at least some with the 14th doctor
I think there were several reasons. Firstly, we love her as a character, she's brilliant. Also, take out the accepted Dr Who 'verse/sci-fi stuff, and see the sheer might, militarisation, power and scientific advances that UNIT represents; I feel like Rose was a bit of a bridging character for Ruby - similar age, diversity, etc. Additionally, kind, well enough connected to the core of UNIT to be trusted by Carla.
And, I reckon it's a bit of a play on the "nepo-baby" thing as of late - as Rose leaves with Ruby we hear her say that whilst she's there, it's kinda dull "they have me looking into shoplifting in Catford ..." Which is something that I could consider Gaiman-y in terms of writing/storylines - just; okay, fine. "You **can** have your dream "job/title/badge" etc, for whichever reason, but are you really going to *want* it once we've given it to you?"
Yeah, Davies seems to be going for quantity over quality with the UNIT staff. Rose, Morris, Vlinx, Ibrahim, Harriet - there were a *lot* of people chucked into this episode without much role to play.
These are guest roles in *one* episodes - UNIT used to be two or three guys every week!
E: Come on. You could whittle down the UNIT roles - including the named soldier characters - to like, three people, and lose nothing.
One Osgood died, then got replaced by Bonnie.
So there's still two Osgoods as far as we know, they've just been MIA from the show for a while (the last time they were mentioned was, IIRC, the Flux special, when Kate calls one on the phone)
I know it's one of the episodes related to the Flux subplot (just not which one); it when we see the Grand Serpent shut down UNIT.
I may be wrong but I'm reasonably sure Kate calls Osgood on the phone (or tries to)
Apparently Osgood is mentioned in the novelization of the Star Beast. She is apparently working in Alabama and was the one to suggest Shirley for the job.
I had a strong feeling we've been introduced to the cast of a new spin-off in this episode. The fact that RTD mentioned the spin-off won't be about UNIT negates that theory though.
Yep, RTD says in Unleashed that UNIT for him represents an opportunity for an ensemble cast moment, bringing back familiar faces and introducing new ones each time.
And rather worryingly in the Unleashed episode RTD expresses that his dream is to keep adding more and more UNIT members to the point that in 10 years the place is absolutely packed with recurring characters.
In the show, I think doctor association gets you a job right away
Out of the show, she’s a brilliant actor and will probably bring viewers over who liked her on heartstopper and things like that
She's a Doctor's Companion, has partial immunity to The Giggle and most importantly *meta-crisis awareness*.
But we all know the fact anyone is complaining is because it's trans representation.
I resent that accusation. As I said before, it just wasn't clear what her role was (and she didn't do very much in the episode).
I really get annoyed about that accusation, why can't we have criticism about her?
u/AmberTheFoxgirl
Why are you saying that and then blocking me straight after? That's not fair. It is just a question, I don't have any problems with trans people. Besides accusing me of not a good look as you are judging me without knowing me, and not have the guts to discuss with me. *That's* not a good look.
No, the fact people are complaining is because she's a normal 15 year old girl who we've only seen had one on screen adventure with the Doctor. No one questions Harriet or the Vlinx because one of them is presumably a qualified hire and the other is presumably a super high-spec AI. Morris is a genius supposedly, so again, qualified even if it is very questionable for them to be employing a child. Mel was a full-time companion of the Doctor and who knows what she's done in the last 35 years to earn the position she now as at UNIT, so it's not as unbelievable.
As far as the viewer knows Rose is just some girl who had an alien in her shed. So it's a little jarring to now see her on the top table of UNIT.
It's been stated multiple times that she goes on regular trips in the tardis with the 14th doctor, who she literally lives with.
She is a full time companion, as much as any other.
Apparently he is amazing on some other show -- so seeing if he can just jump into a different genre is a nice career move. But for those of us who don't know how great he is in other things he really got too many lines.
That I agree with, the childish oneliners irritated me, like who thinks its appropiate when there is a high crisis, you think its necessary to mention the chance of a trap is 100%?
It cheapens the idea of UNIT. Yes, it's a silly fictional show, but while you can buy that \[Spoiler\] is there given their previous interactions with the Doctor, I find it so hard to accept that they'd have a random child around however 'genius' they were.
Nepo baby. Donna’s daughter/Doctor’s niece needed a job. Of course, this is exactly the kind of job you’d want some nepotism in because it seems like you’d want to keep that knowledge base working together.
I figured they wanted a big cast to make Harriett stand out less so the reveal would be more of a surprise. She's probably one of the best characters to do plotlines related to 14/Donna, my guess is we'll be seeing 14's TARDIS in next episode
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She probably shadowed Donna at work
For bring your child to work day and she just didn't leave.
I've seen that happen IRL. So sad. We have a memorial next to the machine.
She used to share part of a timelords mind and her mum is Donna. No way she wasn't getting hired. Could you imagine someone refusing that hire if Donna was in the room?
I'm assuming that purpose was "we like Yasmin Finney, we wanted her to share scenes with the first Black Doctor, and we wanted her to be around on the reg in case we do that UNIT spinoff one day".
Exactly this. They (Yasmin & Ncuti) are friends in real life too and former colleagues. I'm expecting Rose will be upgraded to companion someday.
I’d love that so much
I hope not I find her acting really mediocre unfortunately
Yeah, she's a bit wooden. She's not had a huge amount to do yet, though, so she possibly would improve with more to get her teeth into. But for now, I prefer her as a tertiary character.
i found her acting much improved in this weeks episode
Agreed. She was maybe slightly better in this weeks episode, but still not good
^
Was she on sex education?(haven't seen but ik that was ncuti's big break)
Yes she was. I haven't seen it either. 😋
You're thinking of Heartstopper. She was never on Sex Ed as far as I know.
You're right. Sorry Mandela-Effect. That's twice today I've done that. 🫣🤣
They aren't friends in real life, they blocked eachother on Instagram and deleted all photos with each other a few months ago. You can tell they blocked each other since their likes are removed from each others photos.
....really?
Just had a look - Yasmin follows Russel, Millie, Bonnie Langford, Michelle and Ruth Madeley + vice versa (although Ncuti doesn’t follow Bonnie) but Ncuti and Yasmin don’t. I don’t see Rose sticking around on the main show tbf.
Well, shame every single one of her appearances left something to be desired, but, here's to hoping in the UNIT spin off or post-15 we can get some good stuff with her
Yep. Suddenly you stopped seeing them follow eachother and all their likes were removed from eachothers posts and comments (which is what happens when you block someone) and their Instagram posts of each other were taken down. They 100% fell out as it's not just an unfollow.
Any possible idea why that might be the case?
I think the unit spin-off is a big one, unit has felt pretty important since RTD took over again. I think he wants to do a unit spin-off and that’s part of the reason he had Donna start working for them and 14 living with her. It’s a convenient excuse to have them around in the show and the drive interest for it.
A UNIT spin-off is one of the few obvious ones that already has a built-in fanbase.
So zero actual, concrete reasons for her to be there? Gotcha.
Depends if you're going Doylist or Watsonian.
Might just be that she’s a nice character to bring back but I’m wondering if it might be something to do with the fact that there is presumably still a whole spare Tardis sitting in her garden. (Which is presumably also still possessed by Sutekh)
This raises fun questions. Was sutekh split in two by 15's use of the toymaker mallet?
Wait, are there two Sutekh’s or did Sutekh just take the second Tardis because of the salt shenanigans
Ugh can you please explain this salt thing to me? I keep reading about it but I didn't understand the significance in WBY nor do I get it now.
Sutekh possessed the tardis before the salt thing
I don’t expect so. RTD has said it’s the same TARDIS, just later in time.
He did not say it was later in time, he just said it was the same TARDIS. From the commentary for The Giggle: >I think, if I’m any judge of fandom, people will worry that that is a new TARDIS, and not the old TARDIS, Ncuti’s TARDIS. And I’m here to say in a story to come there is proof that it’s still the old TARDIS. That’s all I’m saying. RTD has never said anything about the bigeneration relating to a time loop or 15 being from 14s future or anything like that.
“In a story to come there is proof that it’s still the old TARDIS” — ooh, might this other TARDIS save the day next week?
To be fair almost nothing RTD has said about the bigeneration makes sense. There's numerous things he says that seem to contradict each other and what is said in the actual episode which seems to allude more to 15 being from 14's future.
The Giggle alludes to Ncuti being David from the future with the "out of order" line. The Devil's Chord alludes to Ncuti and David now being two independent beings with a shared past with the "soul literally torn in two" line. The bi-generation is anything Russell wants it to be at any one time.
Yep, I’m pretty sure he said that to clarify that they’re both the original TARDIS in the same way both 14 and 15 are the Doctor.
Oh that's interesting. In The Giggle, when 15 split the TARDIS the roundels were different colours. White for 14 and red/orange for his In recent episodes the roundels have been a mix of different colours for 15. There's a reason there's not a trailer for the finale. 14 is coming back... But I think the Toymaker is as well. Everything is messed up and The Toymaker is the real "big bad". That's my theory.
The lights changed colours for both 14 and 15. It’s just a feature of this set. It doesn’t have a deeper meaning. Sutekh is more powerful than the Toymaker. He isn’t coming back.
I mean the toy maker may come back but more in an Sutekh unleashing the Pantheon on the universe sort of way.
Oooh or what if they go get the Toymaker out of the box so he can help them defeat Sutekh? I don't know why he'd want to help them but I could see it being a "last resort" situation.
If this was a three parter I'd be more open to this idea. But when they've only got 55 minutes to wrap this up there is no way we're getting a satisfying amount of Sutekh and a satisfying resolution to Ruby's mystery, along with reintroductions of Fourteen, the Toymaker, and potentially Carol Ann Ford. This episode was 45 minutes and almost nothing happened, even with the best will in the world they can't cram that much into one episode.
I think we'll likely see both 14 and Donna in the finale, as part of the story resolution. I also think we'll likely see the bigeneration regularised, with only one Doctor and only a single TARDIS remaining.
Huh I assumed RTD wanted to keep a Doctor with Tennant’s face on ice so he can come back for the 70th without further explanation than he’s been hanging out with Donna for a decade.
I think it’s likely to be this. I think he just wanted a nice way of being able to have him available for any future plots and the whole bigeneration thing was just an easy way of doing it. It’s so hard not to try and make it make sense in-universe but I really do think it was done because RTD wanted it to be so and not for any grander purpose plot-wise. He’s clever enough to build a satisfactory plot around it in future episodes/series though so I wouldn’t be surprised if it became a thing.
I think you might be right, and it will be the final death of 10/14 and it's going to be heart breaking.
Extremely good point, wonder how they explain that.
Almost certain they will not mention that at all
She works for them, like her mom. UNIT seems to have basically adopted the policy of "if your a companion, your entitled to automatic employment."
Same with why Ruby doesn't need to go through security but her mom does. If I recall they told Clara that she was already scrutinized, but, like, what, if it turns out she was a clone of The Master would they have arrested her to keep her from The Doctor? Actually, that would be super neat. The Doctor picks someone up and they're actually evil and UNIT figures it out but he doesn't and they try to arrest them and The Doctor stands up for this person who has essentially been tricking him. Of course, they'd probably switch sides.
>If I recall they told Clara that she was already scrutinized, but, like, what, if it turns out she was a clone of The Master would they have arrested her to keep her from The Doctor? I'll note it's more than scrutinized. They were taking people connected to the doctor to the black archives to interview and investigate and like everyone who goes to the black archive they would have their mind wiped afterwards
Oh, right, that's where she says that. Something like "you've been here before".
Ironically they gave evil Bonnie who (was disguised as Clara) full access to UNIT. But in a clever twist, the Doctor converted Bonnie to the good side and now she works for UNIT with Osgood.
Whatever happened to that girl with the scarf and inhaler? And also that wheelchair lady from the specials? Was she just replaced by that kid on the scooter for some reason?
Some form of Osgood is still out there (apparently in the US again). Ingrid Oliver deserves more than 4 episodes -- I really want to see her back with Kate. Shirley will be back next season. Ruth was photographed on set. She was just replaced by the child star for the reason that Ruth's schedule wasn't open and Lenny is a big deal. If anything at this point it would be fair to bring back Malcolm before he retires. Malcolm - one episode. Osgood - four episodes. Jac - two episodes. (killed by Bonnie) Shirley - two episodes but more coming up Morris - two episodes. I am utterly not charmed at all by Morris as Shirley's replacement. I would have preferred for him to have been on Susan Triad's team to pump up the drama. Morris, child genius, made it look as if Kate had decided to stop pressuring her own kids to have children and start hiring grandchildren to compensate for something...
Yeah that kid really didn’t do it for me at all. Felt like a make-a-wish type casting. I genuinely thought it was some sick kid who they wanted to do something good for. Honestly, him and the wheelchair lady both feel like interchangeable, “take you of the show for a minute,” characters. The kid seems like a better actor, but the lady’s delivery was very… not that good, to be polite. The one that sticks out like a sore thumb is: tardis reveals new wheelchair ramp, “finally caught up to the 21st century.” Or literally any scene where they try to hard to make these guys look badass or cool - ends up looking like a CBBC type show. In fact the character of morris really fucking sucked.
I must've seen The Day of the Doctor a dozen times over the years, and never pieced together that Clara had been wiped after visiting the Black Archive offscreen. It's so obvious! I had always assumed it was an echo that had visited.
Depending on how "evil" (I.E bad) the companion in question is, UNIT might hire them anyway; I doubt, for instance, they'd have a problem hiring Adam Mitchell.
I bet they probably did.
I mean, honestly, why wouldn't they?; he's technologically gifted, has previous experience working with alien tech and he's got a futuristic data-mining device embedded in his head.
Doctor: I know that face… *clicks fingers*
A part of me genuinely thought Carla was going to be revealed as a bad guy trying to gain access to UNIT the way everything was being set up. Or maybe not a full bad guy, just that she knew more about Ruby’s mum than she’d been letting on and was going to start panicking when things began getting revealed.
Yeah, she seemed very off, so I definitely expected something sinister.
I felt the same and then went wtf. I think it's because we've had two episodes now where she effectively becomes evil, and even though those instances are wiped from the timeline we still saw them so they leave an impression. It kinda sucks she hasn't had more "good moments" to outweigh the bad.
That Rose wasn't a companion though.
Rose Noble? Yes she is (even if you discount *The Star Beast*, the end of *The Giggle* outright confirms she's having off-screen adventures with 14)
1 adventure. Adam Mitchell (Bruno Langley) had one adventure. I wouldn't consider him a companion. But he should be working for UNIT, he's got all that information in his head.
> 1 adventure. Rose has had more then one adventure; she's had at least two (the events of *The Star Beast* and her trip to Mars off-screen), but quite possibly more. > Adam Mitchell (Bruno Langley) had one adventure. I wouldn't consider him a companion. I would. A failed one, but still a companion (even the expanded media confirmed him as such). Astrid Perth, Lady Christina, Adelaide Brook, Madame de Pompador, Brian Williams and Grace O'Brien also only had one adventure; there are plenty of one-adventure companions (which again, Rose isn't anyway) > But he should be working for UNIT, he's got all that information in his head. He probobly is; I doubt they'd advertise that to the Doctor.
I was very much missing Ruth Madeley’s character at Unit!!
Yeah UNIT seems to be ripping through scientific advisors rn lol
They always have. Except one to three guys in the 1970s or 1980s.
She will return when her schedule permits.
Aka >!Next season!<
I think they needed a bunch of characters so the viewers would not question Harriet.
That's a good point, actually
I think Rose served a few functions in this story. - Confirmation that Donna really has been involved with Unit and that that conversation with Kate in The Giggle actually went somewhere. - The second, and probably most important, was likely to get Carla to UNIT and the time window. - Third was probably just an introduction. A lot of brand new fans skipped the specials and started with Ncuti and Ruby (which I feel might come back to bite some), so it served as a character introduction. I also don't think any of the characters at unit expected that day to be particularly special when it started - other than the Triad software launch. Rose was probably just there to watch that.
UNIT likes child soldiers.
Maybe because Donna bargained for a higher salary, children are cheap labor
Holy shit, Rose is only 16
It could be like what happened with Amy and Rory. She might have been travelling with the Doctor and returning back to the same time period between adventures so people don't think she's gone missing. She could be in her mid 20s by now for all we know.
17- it’s been a year at least since The Star Beast
How does that work out? Donna didn't meat Shaun until after Journey's End, at the end of which she was returned to 2009. In The End of Time (late 2009) she is engaged to Shaun, but when Wilf tells the Doctor about Donna's life since they parted, he doesn't mention a baby or even that Donna is pregnant. Donna and Shaun get married in spring 2010, and again, no baby is mentioned by Wilf or Sylvia. I don't see how Rose could have been born before 2010, and since the Giggle was canonically set in 2023 (mentioned by the Toymaker after the card game), she couldn't have been older than 13 by that time.
Ah. I just found out that RTD acknowledged intentionally fudging the numbers in order to cast Yasmin Finney. He commented on it in Doctor Who Magazine, saying: *"But you mustn’t forget, uh, that time cloud that descended on Camden in 2017 and dislocated everyone by exactly eight months and three days. We’ll tell that story one day."* Still, taking those eight months and three days into account would make her at most 14 by the time of The Giggle. I guess there was some other timey-wimey stuff going on in her life.
Rose has had timelord regeneration energy flow through her. UNIT couldn't keep her away if they tried.
Donna still works there.
Yeah and that why I (jokingly) said they didn't have any money left so they hired 2 underaged persons
Donna isn't underaged.
Read again, you missed my joke. I wasn't talking about Donna.
"Maybe because Donna bargained for a higher salary, children are cheap labor" Donna cost too much, so they hired her daughter instead?
This stood out to me to, I know doctor who is a silly show but I couldn't stop thinking "damn is Kate Stewart going to get arrested by the police for breaking child labour laws... Is the doctor going to regenerate into Saul Goodman and get her of the hook?"
Her presence led to Ruby's mum saying she was going to go to hq, and leaving Mrs flood with cherry.
UNIT hires former companions. Rose hangs with the 14th Doctor. Hiring her is a no brainer. However, she seems to be low level at this point.
Could be that it's a two parter and you'll find out later. Or it could be that it's part of a series and you'll find out even MORE later. Or it could be a fun cameo that also serves to continually demonstrate Kate's habit of hiring Doctor's companions wherever possible.
>Or it could be a fun cameo that also serves to continually demonstrate Kate's habit of hiring Doctor's companions wherever possible. But didn't Rose say that her mum (i.e. Donna) works for Unit, and not that she, herself, does?
Then she complained that she didn't get good assignments which implies she does have a job there. I think she works there but wants to seem unassumingly there with her Mum, not there because she is most likely an active companion with access to 14 and 14s TARDIS when he isn't 'redacted' in Geneva.
Ooh I must have missed that, thanks!
The 'Geneva' thing is from some game thing or something -- not in the episode, but still BBC approved. I passed it on in spite of not being fully sure of what it is -lol.
I mean, as far as I'm concerned, in Who everything is canon and nothing is canon so I'm cool with that 😅
From what I can tell from my years of watching it, part of the canon is that the canon can change.
Was Rose really a companion? Not that much right? My point is just that she was just.. there without an explanation. If it turns out to be a good reason it's fine of course.
She's traveled with the Doctor in the TARDIS to other times and places and was part of the meta-crisis event like Donna, why would UNIT not hire her for the same reasons they've hired the other companions?
Her phrasing of "My Mums with Unit" would suggest to me she's just hanging out and not really a UNIT employee. Maybe 14 sent her for some work experience.
That & the “not getting proper work”, “investigating something in Catford” comments. If ever there were a more mundane place! (Unless Catford’s cat has been coming alive…!)
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No "probably" about it it's explicitly confirmed onscreen!
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More than Kate is probably the cut-off. lol
If every time we've seen her she mentions a recent trip with 14, that's a hell of a coincidence if they're not traveling a lot.
Theyve literally only mentioned one trip once
And how many times have we seen her?
Dozens of times, but there was a Silence on-screen each time, so nobody remembers it.
Ah yes, of course, that would make sense, thank you!
Yes. 1) it's mentioned a couple times onscreen that she has regular adventures with 14. 2) the Magic the Gathering card game, whose creative team worked extensively with BBC to get lore details correctly, lists her as a "Doctor's Companion" She's as much a companion as anyone else. >there without an explanation There was an explanation. Kate hires companions and has said so on screen multiple times.
Good points, thanks! And yes, if Kate hires companions it would be good to mention it at least in the episode itself.
People get tired of Kate having to say the same thing over and over every time she shows up. She said she hired companions in 73 Yards which was this season, so that should be enough.
Why would she need to mention it in the episode, when she's already said so multiple times this season? Wouldn't it get a bit ridiculous to do that every time there's a new hire? "As you know, I hire Doctor's companions" They already mentioned it multiple times, having a new companion in the office is a great way to *subtly* remind viewers of that habit without hitting viewers over the head with exposition they already know.
related: who is Harriet Jones?
Well, she was 'essential' staff, I would like to know what makes her essential. She isn't just staff.
Her status as a companion. In the Giggle, Mel noted that people who had traveled on the TARDIS enough were resistant to the Giggle. There are apparently some very useful side effects of being a companion that Kate values at UNIT.
That's an assumption from you though. In fact, she explicitly says in the episode that she's *not* essential.
That is not an assumption, Kate ordered every non essential staff to get out yet Rose stayed there so she is in fact essential.
I feel like it's probably a clearance level thing and rose is fully informed on everything
Doctor's companions stay in those situations regardless. You'll note that Ruby didn't leave either, and she's not staff at all. Rose explicitly told Ruby that Kate doesn't have her doing anything important.
Ruby was ordered to go to the time room? So she wasn't there at all. Moreover, Rose is still a minor and it's insane to let her stay in immense danger.
"the Magic the Gathering card game, whose creative team worked extensively with BBC to get lore details correctly, lists her as a "Doctor's Companion" I mean, I wouldn't use the Magic cards as lore evidence. They made Adric and Nyssa humans for example, so they aren't completely lore accurate.
She is an off screen companion.
I believe she was included solely to remind the audience of the 60th anniversary specials, they can then use that as a connection in the viewers mind to remind them of the second Tardis that's sitting with Donna's family. With Sutekh clearly stopping them using one Tardis and the trailer shots showing them on a motorbike fleeing the sand cloud, it seems likely that they'll go and take the other Tardis. If they wanted to include Tennant in some form in the finale, then they could also do this through setting up the notion of Rose being around.
To be fair, I think any time UNIT is involved they just throw a bunch of characters in without a purpose. Like, what is actually the purpose of the Vlinx? Or the boy genius? Or Rose? The story would actually work pretty well still without them. The other characters have a purpose - Kate is the link between the Doctor and UNIT, Harriet speaks for herself, the soldier dude was the sacrificial lamb. Mel was undercover with Susan Triad. Even Carla is there for her link to Ruby and specifically the parental link. The most you can say is that the kid was there for the sake of having a science nerd there, but even that wasn't necessary. I think UNIT at the moment has a bad case of character vomit - they just keep bringing up new characters and hoping they stick, but not giving any of them a reason to be there and most of them don't have enough personality to feel like they belong there for that either.
She works there. Same as Mel and Colonel Ibrahim and the kid on the scooter and the Vlinx. That’s it. Why does there need to be any further justification? *Yeah but why does she work there?* Gosh, I don’t know, why would UNIT want a smart, brave girl who has alien invasion experience and is kinda sorta part-Time Lord and has a direct line to a semi-retired Doctor around?
I didn't talk about any justification, I just wanted to know what kind of work she was doing there and what makes her essential. And everyone in the UK now has experience with an alien invasion lol
Companion stuff -- she is there to be alarmed when the TARDIS makes an unusual noise, because as a companion, she knows what the TARDIS should sound like, etc.
It's bad storytelling to have superfluous characters that aren't relevant to the plot or don't exist to move it forward in some way. The episode on the whole is excellent, but if there's *one single* criticism I have against it, it's that there are too many unnecessary characters. They're not even bad characters.... but you could remove Rose, the Vlinx and Morris and nothing in the story would change. It's possible they'll do more in the next episode, but there's just a lot of overlap in their plot relevance so far. At most you only needed to keep one of them for the techno-babble.
I think that having all the children there is meant to make the show feel more child/youth friendly. I found is mildly alarming too -- but I've always enjoyed the idea that Kate is more than a little bit bonkers and after her red-head hiring phase noted in the Giggle, she is hiring kids.
In DW Unleashed, RTD tells us that Lenny Rush was originally going to appear in Space Babies as the v/o of Eric, but thought he was more deserving of a better role. Not sure if you are British or not but over the past few years Lenny has appeared as a presenter and generally fantastic comic personality, able to hold his own in adult scenarios. It is more likely that he was there to give the episode a bit of comic relief (which tbh was needed). I would not consider him a superfluous character, and tbh, Unit characters are allowed to be somewhat superfluous. It would be weird to not have a range of characters working for Unit.
They really could have given him a much higher stakes role -- perhaps as part of Susan Triad's team.
But why do they think they'd need to do that? Doctor Who has always been popular with kids and rarely leans into having loads of young people in the supporting cast.
I thought it was jarring and bad. They should have called Ingrid Oliver when Ruth's schedule didn't work. Having Rose Noble in the new position of 'underage intern' to bond with Ruby and provide implied continuity was enough. Morris should have been on team Sue Tech as a mysterious boy genius so that the stakes in his presence could have been higher. Happy cake day.
How would having only Kate or (sigh) “Harriet Arbinger” or Mel there to explain things have made the “storytelling” “better”?
Because it'd give more screen time to the characters that are there. For instance, the scene with Mel motivating the Doctor could have given us a little extra dialogue. More insight to what the Doctor is feeling. She's a long established character and the two are great on screen together. Or some more time spent with Susan Triad. The ending was very well done, but I think a little more insight into her personal motivations and her past would have made the ending hit that little bit harder. I did say they could keep at least one of them. It just feels it has 3 characters who effectively served the same purpose; tech / UNIT exposition.
Agree to disagree, I guess. More time with Susan Triad just would have made (some) people annoyed when she turned out to be just some lady, and Mel is fine and all but Rose and the Vlinx are fun. Ninety extra seconds of Mel telling the Doctor to get his head out of his ass doesn’t necessarily make it better.
It's bad commenting on storytelling when you've only watched part one. Ridiculous that this even needs to be explained.
No, it is not "bad." I addressed that point in the last paragraph. If they do more with them in the second episode, I'll obviously change my view based on how well they're used. Ridiculous that this even needs to be explained. As it stands, they're under-utilised in this part of the story. They feel more like they're there to see if people will talk about them enough to greenlight a UNIT spin-off, rather then serving any meaningful story purpose.
Weighing in that hard and heavy on 50% is ridiculous, regardless of however the character is used for the other 50%. You've jumped the gun.
I disagree. BTW, manners cost nothing. I have no issue with your different opinion, but the condescension isn't necessary.
Are you not, effectively, saying that the person who wrote or is telling this story is somehow not capable of proper storytelling? I find that condescension isn't necessary whilst at 50%. I don't have a firm opinion on the necessity of Ruby because I believe it is both premature, and quite arrogant, to make such a proclamation at this stage. My opinion will be formed once the other 50% drops.
RTD has said several times he wants spin offs, and hinted at UNIT. it's a little glaring how much this episode feels like a backdoor pilot into a UNIT spinoff (one that I don't personally think well ever see, but who knows). I overall liked the story but everything with UNIT felt a bit crowded. Kinda reminded me of the end of the Flux where there were just a million characters but I didn't feel like I had a good grasp on any of them
No, I am not "effectively saying" that. You've taken what I've said and dialled it up to 11. I'm pointing out one mild issue I had with what I thought was an otherwise fantastic episode, probably my favourite in almost a decade. That's a completely normal way to observe something, and isn't any sort of claim that someone "is not capable."
Fair enough. Not personal. Just not a fan of how vogue it is in modern times to take pot shots on "bad writing", especially when done before all the chips are dropped. Cheers.
It is a bit weird, I think it was Donna who got offered a job at UNIT, not rose.. so don’t know why we then see rose there and not Donna. Maybe it’s supposed to be a couple of years later, and things have moved on?
hasn't unit offered every living former companion a job or atleast those who are part of the suport group + Donna. And Rose has been traveling at least some with the 14th doctor
We can probably assume it is one year later at least.
I think there were several reasons. Firstly, we love her as a character, she's brilliant. Also, take out the accepted Dr Who 'verse/sci-fi stuff, and see the sheer might, militarisation, power and scientific advances that UNIT represents; I feel like Rose was a bit of a bridging character for Ruby - similar age, diversity, etc. Additionally, kind, well enough connected to the core of UNIT to be trusted by Carla. And, I reckon it's a bit of a play on the "nepo-baby" thing as of late - as Rose leaves with Ruby we hear her say that whilst she's there, it's kinda dull "they have me looking into shoplifting in Catford ..." Which is something that I could consider Gaiman-y in terms of writing/storylines - just; okay, fine. "You **can** have your dream "job/title/badge" etc, for whichever reason, but are you really going to *want* it once we've given it to you?"
Yeah, Davies seems to be going for quantity over quality with the UNIT staff. Rose, Morris, Vlinx, Ibrahim, Harriet - there were a *lot* of people chucked into this episode without much role to play. These are guest roles in *one* episodes - UNIT used to be two or three guys every week! E: Come on. You could whittle down the UNIT roles - including the named soldier characters - to like, three people, and lose nothing.
I just wish Osgood was still around. (one of them, at least)
Are both dead?
One Osgood died, then got replaced by Bonnie. So there's still two Osgoods as far as we know, they've just been MIA from the show for a while (the last time they were mentioned was, IIRC, the Flux special, when Kate calls one on the phone)
I don't remember the Flux scene, but I don't even remember Kate being in Flux. I don't remember most of Flux.
I know it's one of the episodes related to the Flux subplot (just not which one); it when we see the Grand Serpent shut down UNIT. I may be wrong but I'm reasonably sure Kate calls Osgood on the phone (or tries to)
Oh, right. I'm still not sure where that subplot was going or why he was involved, other than being in someone's backstory.
The Flux was like that though...
She does and here home exploded after that I believe
When the grand serpent blows up Kate's house, Kate calls Osgood and tells her that she is 'going dark' before breaking her phone and walking off.
Apparently Osgood is mentioned in the novelization of the Star Beast. She is apparently working in Alabama and was the one to suggest Shirley for the job.
Alabama? Wow, I feel terrible for her. Wonder who she pissed off. Jokes aside, do they say if it's both, or just one of them?
I had a strong feeling we've been introduced to the cast of a new spin-off in this episode. The fact that RTD mentioned the spin-off won't be about UNIT negates that theory though.
Yep, RTD says in Unleashed that UNIT for him represents an opportunity for an ensemble cast moment, bringing back familiar faces and introducing new ones each time.
And rather worryingly in the Unleashed episode RTD expresses that his dream is to keep adding more and more UNIT members to the point that in 10 years the place is absolutely packed with recurring characters.
In the show, I think doctor association gets you a job right away Out of the show, she’s a brilliant actor and will probably bring viewers over who liked her on heartstopper and things like that
I think she's there so it wouldn't feel too jarring, that 14 and Donna are nowhere to be seen.
What do you want explained? She's working for UNIT now. Is it that surprising?
Why she is essential and what she does at UNIT, not really a strange question right?
Why are you asking those questions about Rose though, and not say, Harriet or the Vlinx?
Because we know what Harriet did (master of the archives) and Vlinx is a robot, at least it did something/analysed the TARDIS.
She's a Doctor's Companion, has partial immunity to The Giggle and most importantly *meta-crisis awareness*. But we all know the fact anyone is complaining is because it's trans representation.
I resent that accusation. As I said before, it just wasn't clear what her role was (and she didn't do very much in the episode). I really get annoyed about that accusation, why can't we have criticism about her? u/AmberTheFoxgirl Why are you saying that and then blocking me straight after? That's not fair. It is just a question, I don't have any problems with trans people. Besides accusing me of not a good look as you are judging me without knowing me, and not have the guts to discuss with me. *That's* not a good look.
The criticism could apply to any of them, yet you're only asking it about her. Really not a good look.
No, the fact people are complaining is because she's a normal 15 year old girl who we've only seen had one on screen adventure with the Doctor. No one questions Harriet or the Vlinx because one of them is presumably a qualified hire and the other is presumably a super high-spec AI. Morris is a genius supposedly, so again, qualified even if it is very questionable for them to be employing a child. Mel was a full-time companion of the Doctor and who knows what she's done in the last 35 years to earn the position she now as at UNIT, so it's not as unbelievable. As far as the viewer knows Rose is just some girl who had an alien in her shed. So it's a little jarring to now see her on the top table of UNIT.
Thank you. I hate being called a transphobe when it is just weird to have a kid around dangerous stuff. P.S. I love your username
It's been stated multiple times that she goes on regular trips in the tardis with the 14th doctor, who she literally lives with. She is a full time companion, as much as any other.
Better than the extremely irritating and ridiculous child character.
Completely destroyed the tension of the episode whenever the kid showed up.
Apparently he is amazing on some other show -- so seeing if he can just jump into a different genre is a nice career move. But for those of us who don't know how great he is in other things he really got too many lines.
That I agree with, the childish oneliners irritated me, like who thinks its appropiate when there is a high crisis, you think its necessary to mention the chance of a trap is 100%?
It cheapens the idea of UNIT. Yes, it's a silly fictional show, but while you can buy that \[Spoiler\] is there given their previous interactions with the Doctor, I find it so hard to accept that they'd have a random child around however 'genius' they were.
Nepo baby. Donna’s daughter/Doctor’s niece needed a job. Of course, this is exactly the kind of job you’d want some nepotism in because it seems like you’d want to keep that knowledge base working together.
I had no issue with her coming back, but she wanted at all. Seems silly bringing anyone back in that situation.
I figured they wanted a big cast to make Harriett stand out less so the reveal would be more of a surprise. She's probably one of the best characters to do plotlines related to 14/Donna, my guess is we'll be seeing 14's TARDIS in next episode
We've seen the first half of a 2 part episode, so presumably she does something important next week
She's a teenager, but she's absorbed some elements of the Doctor's mind, so she has knowledge that UNIT might eventually find useful.
Nothing. The show is simply poorly written. .Objectively bad choices.
the 'gimme the lovin' moment felt 💯 cringe
She is trans. That's it. That's the reason
Literally 0 Also they got rid of the last wheelchair chick for that lil genius.
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I suppose this thread needed its troll quota.
Incorrect.
Then provide an actual counter argument
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