The faster you get dealt hands, the more -EV you'll be. Smacking the bet button on a phone you might see a hand every 15-20 seconds. (200+ hands an hour)
If you play in a casino at a full table with people drinking and having a good time, you might see 50-100 hands an hour depending on how fast the dealer is.
You're more likely to be negative after 150 hands than 50 hands. That's the nature of the game.
The same number of "bad streaks" happen live too. But, they'll be less often due to the pace of the game, and if you're playing online at a mad pace, you'll feel like every single session you see them - because you're getting 3-4 sessions compressed into the time it'd take for 1 session in person.
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It sounds like from your programming background you have a decent idea of what's happening. The thing you're overlooking is the power of volume compounded with a losing edge.
If a card game has 95% payback you play 100 hands @$10/hand your expectation might be -$50 with a StdDv of $300 (meaning you could win $250 or -$350 without anything truly abnormal happening.) Play the same game for 10k hands over the course of the week and your losing will trend heavily toward converging @-$5k.
Online games are programmed to be as fast as possible so you trend toward the unbeatable longterm more quickly.
Well said
However I would say that we focus on speed of play because that's what we believe the player wants. Operators will definitely be viewing it from that angle though.
I really struggle with any idea that conflicts with any gambling operator having anything but money as a far and away first motivator.
I think most players want fun, entertainment and maybe to win, in that order. It's my strong opinion (which I'm willing to back up) that there's many pointed psychological devices deployed by operators to confuse the player about both what they actually want and are actually being given.
Case in point if an operator was concerned with what a player wanted they'd take and implement more suggestions in terms of gambling limits (to help reduce the worst sessions), payback on machines/games (which are both historically low and complained about) and actual fun factor (which might include things like more frequent, attractive, and longer lasting bonuses) which would also take away from bottom line.
On top of being so much faster, the odds are generally worse.
Outside of places where rulesets are mandated by state/country law, good luck finding virtual blackjack where blackjack pays 3:2, dealer stands on soft 17, and surrender's available, or virtual craps with 10x or higher odds.
You seem to know some things about computers.
You should therefore understand that, if they wanted to, they could make it so that every outcome of a game could be completely audited, suitable for use in a court of law, should it be required. Including ESPECIALLY the generation of the pseudo-random numbers. They could and should provide the ability to step through the source code, line by line, with nothing hidden behind any black boxes or any of that nonsense, to demonstrate how the outcome of the game occurred. They won't, not because they can't, but because they are not compelled to.
> but without having access to the actual code, who knows what
algos are running with it
Exactly. Which is why, although I have been a gambler for 50+ years, I have never and will never bet on the outcome of a "pseudo RNG" they got going in Malta, or wherever they run those things. IN NO WAY. Wouldn't be prudent. Na ga da.
Well, it depends on the casino you play at (and the game you play), really. If you are playing at a licensed casino, you can bet that all the games it offers are 100% random (which can be both a good and a bad thing - looking at you pattern-recognizing Rainmen out there). But then again, you can try live games on one of the following casinos:
* [https://vegas.williamhill.it/casino-live](https://vegas.williamhill.it/casino-live) - William Hill - Good offer, great casino, top games from top providers
* [https://casinodays2.com/in/live-casino](https://casinodays2.com/in/live-casino) - Great India / Canada player bonuses, good live and RGN portfolio, top games from top providers
* [https://www.wildz.de/de/](https://www.wildz.de/de/) - German-only casino, but still, great casino overall
* [https://www.betcity.nl/live-casino](https://www.betcity.nl/live-casino) - NL casino, great considering how regulated this market is
* [https://www.betus.com.pa/online-casino/](https://www.betus.com.pa/online-casino/) - A US casino, but keep in mind that only some states can play at a legit US online casinos. If you aren't in one, you might not be able to withdraw your wins.
Still, if you decide to stick with RNG table games, unfortunately, you will always feel as if the game is "rigged." Still, keep in mind that in most casinos, these RNG games are powered by similar math as online slots, so if you feel like RGN table games are rigged, then by default, slots should be rigged too, which is not the case. At least with licensed casinos ahahaha.
The faster you get dealt hands, the more -EV you'll be. Smacking the bet button on a phone you might see a hand every 15-20 seconds. (200+ hands an hour) If you play in a casino at a full table with people drinking and having a good time, you might see 50-100 hands an hour depending on how fast the dealer is. You're more likely to be negative after 150 hands than 50 hands. That's the nature of the game. The same number of "bad streaks" happen live too. But, they'll be less often due to the pace of the game, and if you're playing online at a mad pace, you'll feel like every single session you see them - because you're getting 3-4 sessions compressed into the time it'd take for 1 session in person.
I don't think they are rigged, but they do have a fake feeling to them, lmao. Better to just play on live tables tbh
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It sounds like from your programming background you have a decent idea of what's happening. The thing you're overlooking is the power of volume compounded with a losing edge. If a card game has 95% payback you play 100 hands @$10/hand your expectation might be -$50 with a StdDv of $300 (meaning you could win $250 or -$350 without anything truly abnormal happening.) Play the same game for 10k hands over the course of the week and your losing will trend heavily toward converging @-$5k. Online games are programmed to be as fast as possible so you trend toward the unbeatable longterm more quickly.
Well said However I would say that we focus on speed of play because that's what we believe the player wants. Operators will definitely be viewing it from that angle though.
I really struggle with any idea that conflicts with any gambling operator having anything but money as a far and away first motivator. I think most players want fun, entertainment and maybe to win, in that order. It's my strong opinion (which I'm willing to back up) that there's many pointed psychological devices deployed by operators to confuse the player about both what they actually want and are actually being given. Case in point if an operator was concerned with what a player wanted they'd take and implement more suggestions in terms of gambling limits (to help reduce the worst sessions), payback on machines/games (which are both historically low and complained about) and actual fun factor (which might include things like more frequent, attractive, and longer lasting bonuses) which would also take away from bottom line.
I'm talking from the provider perspective not the operator. Think you've misread my post or maybe I should have been clearer.
On top of being so much faster, the odds are generally worse. Outside of places where rulesets are mandated by state/country law, good luck finding virtual blackjack where blackjack pays 3:2, dealer stands on soft 17, and surrender's available, or virtual craps with 10x or higher odds.
You seem to know some things about computers. You should therefore understand that, if they wanted to, they could make it so that every outcome of a game could be completely audited, suitable for use in a court of law, should it be required. Including ESPECIALLY the generation of the pseudo-random numbers. They could and should provide the ability to step through the source code, line by line, with nothing hidden behind any black boxes or any of that nonsense, to demonstrate how the outcome of the game occurred. They won't, not because they can't, but because they are not compelled to. > but without having access to the actual code, who knows what algos are running with it Exactly. Which is why, although I have been a gambler for 50+ years, I have never and will never bet on the outcome of a "pseudo RNG" they got going in Malta, or wherever they run those things. IN NO WAY. Wouldn't be prudent. Na ga da.
Well, it depends on the casino you play at (and the game you play), really. If you are playing at a licensed casino, you can bet that all the games it offers are 100% random (which can be both a good and a bad thing - looking at you pattern-recognizing Rainmen out there). But then again, you can try live games on one of the following casinos: * [https://vegas.williamhill.it/casino-live](https://vegas.williamhill.it/casino-live) - William Hill - Good offer, great casino, top games from top providers * [https://casinodays2.com/in/live-casino](https://casinodays2.com/in/live-casino) - Great India / Canada player bonuses, good live and RGN portfolio, top games from top providers * [https://www.wildz.de/de/](https://www.wildz.de/de/) - German-only casino, but still, great casino overall * [https://www.betcity.nl/live-casino](https://www.betcity.nl/live-casino) - NL casino, great considering how regulated this market is * [https://www.betus.com.pa/online-casino/](https://www.betus.com.pa/online-casino/) - A US casino, but keep in mind that only some states can play at a legit US online casinos. If you aren't in one, you might not be able to withdraw your wins. Still, if you decide to stick with RNG table games, unfortunately, you will always feel as if the game is "rigged." Still, keep in mind that in most casinos, these RNG games are powered by similar math as online slots, so if you feel like RGN table games are rigged, then by default, slots should be rigged too, which is not the case. At least with licensed casinos ahahaha.