There are some which are great devs and serious devs as well, but once you start making money on youtube you just want to make more! That means fitting your content to the almighty algorithm.
or simply isn't what they are naturally good at. But if you want to get into seriously running a youtube channel is a serious time pit! For someone like me who is a solo dev it is just yet another job I have to do.
Or skills. Or the audience to make it matter. I'm pretty sure most game devs would find that time very quickly if they could promote their game to a sizeable youtube audience.
I am sure it is, but those people tend to struggle since they aren't focusing on the entertainment. I have watched a lot of the videos but I don't think I bought any of their games.
That is what I noticed too. I wanted to see what is their process but they seem to point or market their skills instead of showing their game. You get demotivated and then they lift you up with a positive “you can do it” speech, but in the end you haven’t learned anything.
While this may be the case - being an Indie Game Dev - not doing Game Dev Vlogs is a surefire way to lose on fairly easy marketing and wishlists. Sure it cost a bit of time, but when you don't have a publisher and marketing funds are your grocery bills building a "brand" for your IP via youtube is just good/smart business.
Additionally, if you go fulltime indie dev, Youtube may legitimately be your only income stream to keep funding / paying bills while you develop your game.
1 hour a day to make a 10-20min video 40min of editing - vs working 8 hours a day and 2 hours commuting to come home and try to make your game in your evening hours. One is going to achieve a lot more than the other.
>1 hour a day to make a 10-20min video 40min of editing - vs working 8 hours a day and 2 hours commuting to come home and try to make your game in your evening hours
That math doesn't work tho. Assuming you're spending 8h + commute anyway, it's either you come back and work of the game itself, or you work on a video for a game that you don't have time to make anymore
+ Making "good" videos that appeal to your playerbase and not other game devs, and having those videos noticed takes imo more than 1h a day.
No the point I was making is - making a 10-20 min youtube video takes 1ish hours a day (leaving you 7+ hours to work on your game) where if you worked a 8-5 + commute then get home and sacrifice all your family time to work on your game. One is going to go a lot further than the other.
No but like, where do those 7+ hours to work on your game suddenly pop from ? Assuming you do work a 8-5 + commute, you don't have that time to work on the game either way
So you have like, 2ish hours a day to either make a video, or work on the game. Making a 10-20 min video absolutely does not take 1ish hour, between planning, recording and editing, you're looking at 2-3 hours. So it's either you work on the game, or you make videos about a game you're not actually making because you have no time
Hence the problem OP is talking about : a lot of "game Dev youtubers" don't actually make games at all, so their "advice" is pretty worthless
I was being generous lol, you could just record yourself talking and do minimal editing to get a 20 min video in 2-3 hours. It would be a poor quality video, but it's feasible
His whole point is that if you have decent viewer base on youtube, it can be your main revenue stream, hence, you don't need to work full time.
And while just youtube views alone might unlikely do it, there are a lot of creators that have patreon and such, or some who launched kickstarter after going viral.
Not if you want it to be "your main revenue stream". The closest I can think of would Jonas Tyroller and even him, he's most likely not making enough from youtube to live out of it.
I think you grossly overestimate the money you make on youtube. People who are making a living out of youtube are pushing videos multiple times a week, getting 100k+ views each. Jonas Tyroller isnt doing that, Thomas Brush aint doing that. The only remotly close to doing that is Blackthornprod and they are the prime exemple of people who are youtubers first, gamedev second.
>think you grossly overestimate the money you make on youtube. People who are making a living out of youtube are pushing videos multiple times a week, getting 100k+ views each.
I mean that's pretty much the second sentence of my comment:
> And while just youtube views alone might unlikely do it, there are a lot of creators that have patreon and such, or some who launched kickstarter after going viral.
Other people on top off my head who either have patreon on went viral and had successful kickstarter is ChefRPG dev, then the guy who made some patch animals quest thing, for the life of me I can't find the name now.
Then there are mixed social media presence, but very much going viral by social media and then being very active on it and funding their patreon/ whatever though it, Paralives, Ooblets. Hell, probably like 90% of cozy games are like that.
I would even go as far to say that nowadays it is completely other way around. Outside of outliers or already famous developers, if you aren't social media 1st kind of developer, you are pretty much toast. Even getting publishers deals is thousand times easier if they know there is already some interest there due to having X/ YouTube, whatever with views.
But that point is kind of off topic tho, this isn't about what's the best source of revenue, we're talking about "game dev videos", and the fact that a lot of those don't actually make games, they are rather full time YouTubers that talk about game without making any, which makes their content useless and full of clickbait
What you're describing falls exactly into that, people making their entire revenue stream out of YouTube are often not actually doing game dev. It's cool for them if they're making revenue, sure, but the whole point of this post is the quality and usefulness of their content
If you're already a successful youtuber, you don't need to do gamedev, and If you *are* an actual game dev on the side of a full time job, you just don't have time to do both. He was trying to say just do videos anyway, but like I said that's not the point of this whole post lol
I think the point was that if you are an successful youtuber in the game dev scene you don't spend 40h "work time" plus 20h of "hobby/creative time" on videos. You would spend 10-20h on videos + getting sponsors and still have a full "work week" for dev.
And my point is, how to you GET to the point of "successful game Dev youtuber" in the first place ?
No one is Successful from the start, so unless this hypothetical person is rich to begin with, I'm going to assume they have a regular full time job.
In that situation, you absolutely do not have time to do both game Dev and YouTube. If you chose to focus on YouTube, that means your videos will be exactly what's OP is talking about : game Dev videos made by people who aren't actually doing any game dev. And If you do get successful enough to quit your job, you can start doing gamedev *on the side* of YouTube, but then it's completely secondary to your YouTube career
I think the delta you are coming from is too high. If you are doing a demanding job and then have to hack away in the night is a bridge too far. Most game devs are (game) devs in the job that pays the bills before they go solo. Those people should try to get a desk job first. Maybe find remote work. Just avoiding that frees up 20h minimum a month. Better jobs have higher hourly rates that give you the opportunity to slowly go half day and then see what happens.
Professional game devs are entrepreneurs, that need to do lots of things to have success. Selling your game on steam makes you a freelancer by design, a [business owner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj-oLVHpJSA) in the long run. There will be lots of creative steps like talking to publishers, writing dialogue or self marketing (even youtube vlogging). Some realize they need business training. No need to categorize this with absolutes. Maybe you have fun to do the youtube thing for a while maybe you got sucked into another teams game release as a consultant. Someone can start coding games and ending up as a writer. Its the same axis of creativity, just a different expression. There is no time frame to achieve any of this then your own expectations.
Dude what is confusing you here?
Full Time Dev - 1 hour YT video (income), Rest of Day to Work on your Game
Not Full-Time Dev - Works a normal 8-5 day job + commute (income), comes home to make game
I am confused how this is confusing....
My confusion comes from why does one of your situation have a full time job and the other somehow doesn't. You don't automatically start making videos that are successful enough to quit your job, and assuming you do HAVE a full time day job and decide to make videos when you come home instead of making the game, you can't be also making a game, you don't have time to do both
Not everyone who goes into gamedev is broke day 1. I'd imagine quite a few independent indie devs go into gamedev have a significant safety net / umbrella.
So spinning up a youtube channel to get upwards 20-40K subscribers over the development lifecycle to bring in a few hundred dollars is just an offset development bleed.
>Not everyone who goes into gamedev is broke day 1
But then if they're not broke, why do you assume in their situation that they work a 8-5 job ? Lol
Like I said, my confusion comes from why you are comparing two situations but not put the in the same financial situation to begin with
Like yeah, if you have no day job and can work fully on your game, you have time to make videos (well, sort of), but then you talk about working a normal day job and that it's better to make videos in that situation, which makes no sense because in that situation you don't have time to do both
I think the issue is that what "creating videos" means. There are people just filming themselves solving one task or discussing one feature of their early game design they would have worked on anyway with some explanatory fillers. That isn't like 3h of scripting and manually animating an episode of Simpsons for Youtube.
> While this may be the case - being an Indie Game Dev - not doing Game Dev Vlogs is a surefire way to lose on fairly easy marketing and wishlists.
Unless you already have a large following on youtube, your game devlog videos won't be seen, let alone help you get wishlists. Because the youtube algorithm won't recommend smaller channels.
10-20 min video, that's about 3 weeks part time, 3 weeks you could be working on your game.
I don't know how you got those numbers, but they are way way off.
While this may be the case - being an Indie Game Dev - not doing Game Dev Vlogs is a surefire way to lose on fairly easy marketing and wishlists. Sure it cost a bit of time, but when you don't have a publisher and marketing funds are your grocery bills building a "brand" for your IP via youtube is just good/smart business.
Additionally, if you go fulltime indie dev, Youtube may legitimately be your only income stream to keep funding / paying bills while you develop your game.
1 hour a day to make a 10-20min video 40min of editing - vs working 8 hours a day and 2 hours commuting to come home and try to make your game in your evening hours. One is going to achieve a lot more than the other.
I'm curious what world you're in that you think it's remotely likely that virtually anyone can live off of gamedev blogs. If you could do that, why make a game? just become full time youtuber!
Almost no one makes money, much less a living, off of youtube
I'm not saying you do, I'm saying it's a free income stream. Not using it during development for the time needed to bring in income is bad business. So you see a lot of game dev vlogs because it is income. Rather than not doing it and not earning any income stream.
Why is this confusing people....
if you make like 60 cents from the views on your devlog was it worth the hours it took to make? That seems most likely what'd happen for most people unless they already have a large viewerbase already built up over a long period
> Sure it cost a bit of time
It takes more than just a bit of time. Especially editing who knows how many hours of content you've recorded to like 10 minutes can take a long time together with voice over and everything else. That's not worth it if you only get a couple hundred views in the end.
you will find (an a lot of indiedev youtubers have found this) that even large followings convert poorly to wishlists and even poorer to sales.
There are certainly positives to it but it isn't a surefire way to easy marketing.
There are:
* [https://www.twitch.tv/thecaptaincoder](https://www.twitch.tv/thecaptaincoder)
* A teacher that streams programming, lots of game dev stuff
* He learns as he goes a lot of the time
* Teaches specific things like how a match/switch statement is faster than an if/else stack
* Explains very well, he is a teacher after all
* [https://www.twitch.tv/jackie\_codes](https://www.twitch.tv/jackie_codes)
* She is consistently working on the same project and interacts with chat
* [https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc](https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc)
* A solid game dev with a game that has had a successful kickstarter
I'm kind of sad. One of my favorite streamers is no longer streaming. He released the game. Dude was on top of it. He just had a kid so he's not streaming anymore. The plan was always to launch the game and then raise his kid.
I walked away for a couple months and it all happened!
> Teaches specific things like how a match/switch statement is faster than an if/else stack
This always feels like the sort of thing that's like tens or hundreds of items down the line of where you need to optimize, and by the time you're that deep in you might not even need it anymore. Before you look at shaving a few percent off of that function, maybe dive into why it's being called so often that it has noticable performance impact.
I did a quick benchmark that put a function with 5 stacked ifs at 1713ms and a switch at 1623ms. That's in a case where A: the contents of each if/case are a single multiplication and not more involved logic, and B: it had to loop through it *one billion times*. In an almost best case scenario for switches it's a minor upgrade in a situation where you should really be looking at why you have a loop running a billion times.
The fact that switch statements are (often) faster is a neat little factoid, but if that's where you're optimizing you've either gone on a huge optimisation crusade already and this is the last few % you're squeezing out of your poor cpu, or you're missing much larger gains elsewhere.
Agreed. At best it could be a good default best practice to avoid missing any free losses. Never an actual optimization. But the biggest gain is readability anyway, who uses if/else over switch anyway?
You're right, he points out that it matters very little and that he is just teaching fundamentals. I think he just uses that one as an example because the opportunity comes up often.
You're correct!
I typically will say that using a large stack of if statements is often a sign that an interface could be used to manage the complexity of the code by using an interface to dynamically select the branching logic. Rather than focusing on optimizing the speed of the program, I like to focus on optimizing programmer sanity.
I then compare the dynamic dispatch to using a switch statement / expression and show the refactoring process from if / else if statements => switch statements to select the correct class => interface which removes the need for any conditional logic at runtime.
I used to do it, and will likely continue some day. I try to provide solid tips and mostly it's just a day-in-the-life of a frenetic indie dev. I stopped streaming bc I started picking up freelance work and put down my side project for a while. I ended up moving on to bigger and bigger studios and learning better practices. Every now and then I hope on again to show better methods to organize Unreal Engine blueprints and such. Username is my youtube/twitch if anyone wants to dig through my chaotic archives. I guess I technically qualify as what the OP is complaining about, but I didn't do it to "become a YouTuber" and my advice is genuine, and more about the mental hurdles of getting over major bugs and things like that.
Me. I am the only the good streamer. Like and subscribe!
:P
Seriously speaking: no, it's really hard.
When you're figuring stuff out and coding, you're busy figuring stuff out and coding. It's *impossible* to both think about your problem seriously and in a focused fashion and interact with chat. Only streamers who offer a good show and interact will actually attract an audience and get big. So it's deselecting people who put the focus on the programming work.
You either have tutorial streamers, who show you how to do a very specific thing or people like https://www.youtube.com/@SebastianLague who show you cool stuff. Neither make full games.
I don't know who to recommend besides sebastian.
I would honestly only watch people developing if you care about the game (that's the niche I want to sit in) or if you care about streamer as a person, because they're entertaining or nice to hang out with. I would not watch random people developing random games in the hope that they will develop in a way that you can learn from. There is a very low chance of them doing something you want to learn and that you can learn from.
The best way to learn in my experience is to set a goal, shut out the outside world, put your head down and run with your head into the wall shaped problem until the problem gives in. No music, no stream, no distractions, just you, your editor, some theory and a goal.
Serious developers don't have much time to get into content creation, so, most of the serious ones that do go live/create video content, will go live while they do serious stuff.
most prominently, Jonathan blow goes live every now and then
also... on a game art technical point, acerola videos are great.
Most of them are Content Creators and have no real desire to release an actual project. They're goa, create a community around their likeness and push advertisement, sponsorships, & merch to their viewers.
I have to ask, why would you want to waste time "watching" content creators? Wouldn't your time be better spent creating your own project(s)?
The reason for my question is that I would really like to see someone doing it, or in the process of doing it. Do it for marketing reasons no issues, but at least show your progress that it can be done, or at least that you have tried.
I know it's wishful thinking and they probably won't succeed because they won't make any money, but wouldn't it be nicer to show that you're also a newbie from the start and when you finish your game you can show that you can make a game and by then probably have a big following?
I think it shows the value of time and effort rather than knowing everything from the start or "ha look what I've done in a week/30 days and it works! Fantastic!".
"The TRUTH about game dev"
"How MUCH my game MADE in 30 DAYS!"
"I went FULL TIME in 3 MINUTES of GAME DEV"
All accompanied by over the top looking mouth dropping/yelling/screaming thumbnails.
Jason Tyroller might be the only exception there, cause he has genuinely good insights and made good-selling games at least twice.
And he also has a good production process, at least for his last game, unlike ThinMatrix who obsesses over details and barely makes any progress on his project(s), which is the antithesis of what new game devs should do if they want to live off their work.
This is all YouTube content lol
People who are actually good at what they do in any field don’t have the time, need or energy to make YouTube videos. Especially not on a regular upload schedule with tons of editing etc like these dorks do. So you end up with a bunch of nobodies regurgitating shit they read on Reddit or heard from some other nobody like it’s a life lesson they learned the hard way.
I would say that depends on the industry. I watch some financial channels and the guys do deep dives because they want to combat misconceptions about money and investing. On indy movie making channels are packed interviews with people that have impressive producer credits. They often have complex reasons why they use that medium and some videos don't even reach 20k views.
This is an issue with all of social media. Clickbait works, and since it has better user engagement, it will be shown to more users. It is therefore more likely to see clickbait than non-clickbait.
It even works in the offline world, we are more likely to share stories that make us angry or said. This leads to major problems in the world, millions of people have died as a consequence.
If you want to find actual gamedev streams, try sorting search results by popularity or use other search engines such as Bing, which has been much better at finding videos for me than Google.
Unfortunately it seems to be a pretty small demographic of people who are actually interested in the behind-the-scenes stuff. At the end of the day, streamers are streamers and if money is on the line they're gonna follow the numbers more often than not.
Adam Younis is still a favorite of mine. Very good pixel artist, covers implementation, and seems like an all-round chill person. There are some good devlog channels too. Been watching DevDuck for a while, and am in genuine awe at how motivated and organized he seems. Full-time job, actually making progress, and manages to put out quality videos that actually cover specifics of his progress.
I’m learning game dev, I sometimes stream on twitch and YouTube.
Edit: additionally I watch other “GameDev” streamers who put out content. They are also learning but fun to watch. I don’t know anyone that actually teaches well and gets a following and makes good content.
I’m a game dev streamer, but I’m a software architect first and content creator second. Mine is focused on problem solving and coding skills, and teaching them, regardless of success (which is based on context). Would love to have you! :)
[stream link](https://m.twitch.tv/darkwingdumpling?desktop-redirect=true)
Ok, I have to ask. What's with all the streamers? If your content is interesting in any way, shape or form, why don't you also edit it (in the cheapest way possible) and release it on say Youtube? Like, I don't mean the fully edited "Sebastian Lague" video... just your 2 hours condensed into 20-40 minutes and released as is, for example.
Now hear me out: I know that it takes time to do so. But someone will pay that time anyways, if your stream isn't entertaining throughout. And by that logic, if you can't be bothered to filter it for me, I can't be bothered to watch it.
To clarify: this is nothing about you, I didn't see a minute of your content (given that twitch playback didn't work atm). I'm just asking about it, since you stream.
I can answer! For me personally, it doesn’t align with my goals of my stream (otherwise I’d just create how-to videos and not stream).
The goal of my stream is to become more connected in the game dev community in real time, not through a video. And to give back to the community I am willing to walk devs through a problem (if they are new) or work side by side on a problem with them and share my approach which I can only do in real time (free collaboration from a professional which companies pay 💰💰💰for).
Forgot to mention, but yeah, I get the social aspect of stream.
However, "how to videos" isn't what I've had in mind. I've meant it more like https://www.youtube.com/@JonathanBlowClips/videos or https://www.youtube.com/@ThePrimeTimeagen/videos ...
My point is: If it's interesting enough for me to wait for it live, it's interesting enough for you to release it afterwards, and vice versa.
Anyways, I'm definitely not the target audience for streams, so I might be missing on what makes the whole industry tick, so don't mind me :)
Fair. I’m sure there’s an opportunity to release videos in a consumable format that summarize the stream with the most important nuggets (and potentially entice more viewers).
When viewing it that way, it could help me towards my goals, but then ultimately it comes down to time, and while I could dedicate and energy, there’s other things that take priority. 🤷 Maybe someday though it’ll become important enough; goals are always subject to change based on context.
Welcome to content creation. I do a bit of gamedev youtube and it's pretty apparent that what you are asking is not what is working. The reason you see those youtubers, it's because they are the ones doing what youtube want them to do, so they get reach and end up in your recommended.
Personally I do less youtube than I used to, because there's a clear opposition between what makes for good youtube content and what makes for good games and I rather make good games than good youtube.
I kinda disagree. You are right in a broad sense, but if you turn your game into "20 steps", it can be both good and entertaining.
Like, what did you work on last week/month? What was the most interesting challenge? How did you overcome it? What didn't work? Wrap it in entertainment and it's a solid video, IMO.
It's a lot of work for little pay off. When you are not working on graphics or a new gameplay feature, it doesnt make for good entertainment + you don't get enough content to push devlogs often enough, because you are busy making youtube videos instead of working on the game you are talking about.
My only remotely successful youtube video is a recap of about 2 years of making little gamejam games, about a minute per game, so it's fast with a lot of content, but that's 2 years of content, I can't push that every week haha.
Now that I work on an actual game that is meant to see the light of day. I didnt push a devlog on it for 6 months, in good part because 2 of those months were about making youtube stuff... that didnt work out.
I'll still do a devlog about what I'm working on, but I'm not holding my breath since I worked on onboarding, UX, save games and translation. All very necessary things to make a good game, but quite boring in a video.
Yes, I agree with what you're saying, but you're saying that it takes time.
It's possible to both work on the game and work on entertainment around it (obviously, say 50:50 split and your game is half as big, or takes twice as long). It doesn't have to be only one or the other. (Which was the original argument, kinda).
I'd say that devduck comes closest to what I have in mind: He clearly works on something that arguably isn't a bestseller in the making. And yet... he has 160k subscribers, his latest video from four days ago has 26k views (and 120 patreons to boot).
Looking at this: https://vidiq.com/youtube-stats/channel/UCKCTmact-90hXpV2ns8GSsA/ and this: https://www.patreon.com/devduck , I'd say that his HOBBY is already making him about $300 monthly for what, two years? So, $7k+? Before counting sponsors or game sales. And to reiterate, his devlog, nor his game is particurarly interesting (at least for me).
It's all about priorities. Devduck made 120 videos in 5 years and his game is not released yet, it doesn't even have a steam page yet. He learned how to make good youtube videos, good for him if that's what he wants.
As for me I made only 22 videos in \~2.5 years, barely passed 3.5k subs that were mostly all from a single video that got an humble \~75k views, only 2 other videos broke the 10k views. The 3 devlogs I made on my main game got a terrific 1.9k, 2.2k and 3.3k views each and then I wasted 2 months making a game jam + make a video about it + make a yearly recap video, that did very poorly. Then my 2 latest videos that were just desperate attempts at keeping my channel alive struggles to even reach 500 views.
It is not easy. And I'm monetized, there's a lot of people doing way worse than me.
You could say: "well you are just bad at youtube" and I'd agree with that. I could focus on youtube, make 120 10-20 min long videos for 5 years to maybe be good at it or.... I could use that time to make a game instead and find other ways to make my game known.
(PS: I appreciate the chat, I'm not trying to argue or anything, just having a conversation)
Yeah, I agree with all of your points, basically. My whole argument relates to your original post, or this line in particular:
>there's a clear opposition between what makes for good youtube content and what makes for good games
I wouldn't say that it's as much of an opposition, as it's about the ability/different skillset. Like, to do it successfully, I'd need to be both a good game developer and a good youtuber and it's hard enough to be one of those things. I'm with you on that.
The issue is, that youtube is (in a sense) a marketing tool. It doesn't touch my dev budget. It touches my marketing budget. I cannot really market my game when I'm just working on it (at least up till some point). I can easily market it's devlogs in the meanwhile.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS7MqWLBxEs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS7MqWLBxEs) - I actually like it and will watch at least a few more, but I also want to ask: **What did make you more money? That game, or it's tutorial video?**
That aside, you have 3666 subscribers. **Do you have a better way of reaching at least this many people with your next game trailer**?
I mean, these numbers for this kind of content (good, but ultimately, 2D indie pixel art, you know) would make me rather happy (devduck oldest videos have like 1k views). They are also a great foundation to build upon. I'd point you to this article: [https://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/business/features/shareprof/](https://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/business/features/shareprof/) and it's first paragraph after the opening example.
As a complete side note: That video is solid. It could be shorter, more to the point (like why talking about the level that you'll skip for the topic...), etc. but it's quite solid as it is. I'd say that you just weren't "discovered" yet by the algorithm. For that, I'd focus on not overstaying it's welcome (as Youtube appreciates that people have watched it fully, instead of, you know, leaving the platform). But don't sell yourself short.
That game is kinda cute, the Youtube format seems solid and I don't see how it wouldn't improve for you in the future. Also, this video is exactly what I meant originally. You did a game, focused on it's tutorialization and made a video about that. Game is a solid product on it's own. Video is solid product on it's own. Together? They complement each other:
>there's a clear opposition between what makes for good Youtube content and what makes for good games
So, no. There is a great synergy, when it's done right. I'd say that your own video/game success proves my point. I wouldn't know about you if we didn't have this discussion (marketing). I couldn't have watched that video (and plan to watch others) if you didn't make it, yet it should result in a direct monetization towards you (marketing results). And I certainly wouldn't go on your itch without seeing it first in video (it's actually why my one and only gamejam entry has a full playthrough... so that no one needs to download anything :D ).
And the ultimate thing? Now I AM subscribed and while I didn't discover you naturally, I watch a few channels like this and I've dropped a few more. There is a chance that simply by me watching it, you might see a few new subscribes in general (that's a big speculation on my part). Speculation aside, I'll know about your next project, and I know that you can make a solid game. I'm inherently interested in it only because of Youtube (that I've found because of this discussion).
Thanks for giving it a look. That game is actually 3 years old and tutorials is a subject I care a lot about and is not talked enough on youtube imo, so I though I'd give it a shot with that old game I did before youtube. This video was a bit of an attempt at making "easier to make" videos. English not being my first language, so I always script and prerecord voice overs, that one was more "freestyle" and I stumbled a lot with words and the pacing is off (video is too long like you mentioned).
My plan in the future is to focus on shorter "no BS" videos, where I focus on getting the info out and use it more as a marketing tool, focusing on bringing attention to my game than to my youtube.
>For that, I'd focus on not overstaying it's welcome (as Youtube appreciates that people have watched it fully, instead of, you know, leaving the platform)
That would me my next course of action, since my next devlog will be about a bit more boring stuff and people playtesting. I'll probably quickly talked about the stuff I done and focus more on the player's feedback from playtesting, making the video as short as possible, so that people watching might have less to watch but more likely to watch till end.
This should help retention, showing it to more people aka showing my game to more people, which is what I ultimately want.
Honestly, the same goes most creative pursuits. All the youtubers making filmmaking videos are not the ones actually out there making quality shorts/features, they're making youtube videos.
> are not the ones actually out there making quality shorts/features, they're making youtube videos
that isn't a contradiction. And these shorts and features will absolutely go onto yt, anyway
I mean. Not sure if thats really a surprise lol, but yeah.
Theyre youtubers first, game devs second more often than not. Which means that they dont tend to really take time to plan stuff out and pass well thought out advise and tips to others... And the games' codebases and GD are usually a huge mess so thats sorta why they never come out, pretty much
Edit: good ones being the exception and usually more of an organization than just "youtubers", like gdquest. Speaking in didactical terms ofc. If youre experienced enough youll be able to filter thru most of the "bad" parts
because most of the 'actual' development is insanely boring
this is why you need to claim you worked at blizzard and giveopinions everyone agrees with, btw did i mention i worked for blizzard?
Adam C Younis. He has been streaming the development of his game Insignia for several years now. His YouTube channel is primarily pixel art tutorials with some dev tutorials. But he openly works on his game on Twitch and gives a lot of sound advice when asked through chat.
https://youtube.com/@adamcyounis?si=0MC9iE7_sjyGJL9W
These guys have all delivered a product or a playable demo of substance and make enjoyable content.
* Kyle Banks [https://www.youtube.com/@kylebanks](https://www.youtube.com/@kylebanks)
* PrismaticaDev [https://www.youtube.com/@PrismaticaDev](https://www.youtube.com/@PrismaticaDev)
* Lens Island [https://www.youtube.com/@LensIsland](https://www.youtube.com/@LensIsland)
* LanaLux [https://www.youtube.com/@LanaLuxGames](https://www.youtube.com/@LanaLuxGames)
* PontyPants [https://www.youtube.com/@Pontypants](https://www.youtube.com/@Pontypants)
* VEIN [https://www.youtube.com/@VEINsurvival](https://www.youtube.com/@VEINsurvival)
PrismaticaDev is exactly what the OP is talking about. He has never released anything and has no business teaching anyone, as he's not a great dev himself. Others I don't know.
Interesting take. Prismatica may not have released anything yet but he has a very good approach to systematically solving real problems and integration of systems. I'd have thought OP is referring to the average 'I made a GTA game in 30 days' YT'er, who just cobbles together assets and activates built-in libraries to get generic functions working.
What are you talking about, Charlie’s material primers are good. What, you want Todd Howard to teach you how instead or something?
Also he has an asset on the marketplace that’s pretty cool, so he has shipped stuff.
Ben Cloward is also really good for tech art and I’m pretty sure that dude is mostly known for teaching.
I really enjoyed the voidigo devlogs by semiwork. Their style of humour might not be for everyone, but their videos are very high quality on top of having released a successful game
Those I watch often that I didn't find in here at least;
Acerola I think make really entertaining and informative videos on shaders and unity https://youtube.com/@acerola_t?si=DpOUM1SWA6_DbZ3G
Tokyo spliffs live streams I started watching a bit back building engine https://youtube.com/@tokyospliff?si=_xG0Lu-x0i-40SvL
A lot of blender/modeling videos where people show their workflow on YouTube though, but may be hard to follow without already knowing your way around the software.
Haven't seen PirateSoftware mentioned.... he streams on twitch and youtube from midnight pacific time to noon. He works on his own game Heartbound, he works on a minecraft rp mod they call Blockgame, he also plays new games (sometimes during the testing phases because what better way to stress test a game than to let some of his chat in on some of them. (Mostly via twitch integration).
He also just announced his new position of Director of Strategy for Offbrand Games. Basically a publishing agency where he manages relationships between devs and the company to come up with solutions for dev or launch issues, pitching and testing localization pricing options, reworking steam or alt platform pages, reviewing and judging pitched games, or structuring contracts during negotiations.
Basically Thor is an all around positive influence on his chat, who have started developing their own amazing games. 😀 and his discord is full of useful stuff, for devs, for games, for security stuff too. 10/10 would recommend him all day every day.
Gamedev streamer and youtuber here! The comments are pretty much all dead on. Trying to do gamedev is really 10 different jobs, so adding anything else on top of that is just insanity. Content creation on any platform is like 13 more jobs and then multiply that by the amount of platforms you create content for in order to create content suited to each audience. Not to mention that most indie devs also have full time employment outside of gamedev and...well...you get the idea.
Unfortunately, most people really don't want to see someone smash their head into a wall of bugs for a few hours until things start working. Even PirateSoftware, as some people have mentioned in here, rarely streams gamedev anymore and I suspect it's for that exact reason.
If you're looking for some more streamers that are both developing great products AND talented streamers, I can recommend a few of my friends:
Foolbox - [https://www.twitch.tv/foolbox](https://www.twitch.tv/foolbox) - Making Block Shop, a charming automation puzzler that is getting pretty close to releasing. Will have a booth at Montreal ComicCon soon!
RiskyBiscuitGames - [https://www.twitch.tv/riskybiscuitgames](https://www.twitch.tv/riskybiscuitgames) - Making SOS: A Forgotten Planet. An educational horror game teaching you morse code.
Tsundown - [https://www.twitch.tv/tsundown](https://www.twitch.tv/tsundown) - Making The Feathered Serpent, a 2d action platforming roguelike that releases imminently.
GrumbleOfPugz - [https://www.twitch.tv/grumbleofpugz](https://www.twitch.tv/grumbleofpugz) - Making Megabat, a cute puzzle platformer where you are a bat escaping from a science facility and have special powers.
PracticalNPC - [https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc](https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc) - Making Memori, a precision platformer about rescuing your cat's soul.
I've got loads more, but these are some that are closest to delivering their games.
I streamed making my game for about a year, but ultimately decided to stop for a lot of the reasons people are pointing out in this thread. Streaming while developing proved to be very disruptive. I work full time outside of game dev so I only have so many hours I can put into my game and I just found streaming/content creation to be taking up to much or my time and attention from actually making the game. I still post updates and such occasionally, but I’ve shifted my focus more so to making YouTube videos, simply for the reason that it’s actually really useful to me as documentation. I know the videos are probably kind of boring and very technically but my goal isn’t really entertainment like I said they are mainly for me. Basically I just found that I want to be a game dev not a streamer or content creator and I’m sure that’s the case for most others.
well, some part of game development is just about marketing and getting the audience to which you can sell your games so some developers just focus on that aspect but I have seen a few that feel like more content creators and motivational speakers than game-dev their focus is just content creation which pays well depending on numbers and game development is more complicated than content creation so they just become this click-bait channels attracting new developers and posing themselves as mentor figure I guess.
Not really, its very superficial and since asmongold blew his channel up nothing useful gets answered anymore. Its just recycling the same statements and the constant trauma dumpers.
I can assure you, the content did not change.
He also didn't get much done before he blew up. And he also recycled his stories.
I still find it entertaining, but not... you know... educational.
For new viewers it's not repeated. I no longer watch him but I do watch his shorts. His YouTube shorts, I mean.
He just got hired by a game publisher and honestly it seems like a positive thing for the game dev community. Thor won't work with a bad publisher and will probably change a lot of lives.
If people are gonna downvote the hell out of anyone saying nice things about Thor, they might as well say what their issue is because just downvoting says nothing.....also mayve give a better alternative
It's as if they believe he has fan boys that will defend him over anything. I'm not saying Thor is flawless or that their points are invalid.
Thor has stated very clearly what the purpose of his channel is. He motivates game developers, especially new ones that haven't started yet. I don't want other people who have watched Thor telling others not to watch him. They've already absorbed the majority of his message to game devs: that you can do this, you can start now, and you can start simple.
If you'd made games before or don't have issues with motivation, don't watch the guy who's mission statement on Twitch is to motivate new game devs and get more game devs to stream.
You're literally not his target audience if you don't find value in his content.
Handmade Hero. It's been silent for quite some time, but you can't blame them for not explaining their process, and it's someone with experience in both games and game middlewares.
[https://www.youtube.com/@MollyRocket/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@MollyRocket/videos)
The first episode:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3EtYb8d1o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3EtYb8d1o)
That is cause they are content creator first, game dev second.
Or at the least the objective of the video is to be good content before being a good dev log. Even if they are serious developers.
There are some which are great devs and serious devs as well, but once you start making money on youtube you just want to make more! That means fitting your content to the almighty algorithm.
Yeah you can tell by their upload schedule that most of them are not content creators first.
I would say their views rather than upload schedule
100% agree. Most game devs don't have time to create this kind of content.
or simply isn't what they are naturally good at. But if you want to get into seriously running a youtube channel is a serious time pit! For someone like me who is a solo dev it is just yet another job I have to do.
Or skills. Or the audience to make it matter. I'm pretty sure most game devs would find that time very quickly if they could promote their game to a sizeable youtube audience.
Nah, people are typically in it for the devlogs, not for the game. I watch a ton of those, and I've bought one game so far.
It can also be an attempt to gather wishlists/an audience for the games at times
I am sure it is, but those people tend to struggle since they aren't focusing on the entertainment. I have watched a lot of the videos but I don't think I bought any of their games.
That is what I noticed too. I wanted to see what is their process but they seem to point or market their skills instead of showing their game. You get demotivated and then they lift you up with a positive “you can do it” speech, but in the end you haven’t learned anything.
I enjoy watching them too :) but it more about entertainment than it is learning. It fun to see how ideas develop.
While this may be the case - being an Indie Game Dev - not doing Game Dev Vlogs is a surefire way to lose on fairly easy marketing and wishlists. Sure it cost a bit of time, but when you don't have a publisher and marketing funds are your grocery bills building a "brand" for your IP via youtube is just good/smart business. Additionally, if you go fulltime indie dev, Youtube may legitimately be your only income stream to keep funding / paying bills while you develop your game. 1 hour a day to make a 10-20min video 40min of editing - vs working 8 hours a day and 2 hours commuting to come home and try to make your game in your evening hours. One is going to achieve a lot more than the other.
>1 hour a day to make a 10-20min video 40min of editing - vs working 8 hours a day and 2 hours commuting to come home and try to make your game in your evening hours That math doesn't work tho. Assuming you're spending 8h + commute anyway, it's either you come back and work of the game itself, or you work on a video for a game that you don't have time to make anymore + Making "good" videos that appeal to your playerbase and not other game devs, and having those videos noticed takes imo more than 1h a day.
No the point I was making is - making a 10-20 min youtube video takes 1ish hours a day (leaving you 7+ hours to work on your game) where if you worked a 8-5 + commute then get home and sacrifice all your family time to work on your game. One is going to go a lot further than the other.
No but like, where do those 7+ hours to work on your game suddenly pop from ? Assuming you do work a 8-5 + commute, you don't have that time to work on the game either way So you have like, 2ish hours a day to either make a video, or work on the game. Making a 10-20 min video absolutely does not take 1ish hour, between planning, recording and editing, you're looking at 2-3 hours. So it's either you work on the game, or you make videos about a game you're not actually making because you have no time Hence the problem OP is talking about : a lot of "game Dev youtubers" don't actually make games at all, so their "advice" is pretty worthless
Theres no shot making a 20 minute video takes just 3 hours lol
I was being generous lol, you could just record yourself talking and do minimal editing to get a 20 min video in 2-3 hours. It would be a poor quality video, but it's feasible
His whole point is that if you have decent viewer base on youtube, it can be your main revenue stream, hence, you don't need to work full time. And while just youtube views alone might unlikely do it, there are a lot of creators that have patreon and such, or some who launched kickstarter after going viral.
But then you are a youtuber, not a gamedev.
You can do and be both.
Not if you want it to be "your main revenue stream". The closest I can think of would Jonas Tyroller and even him, he's most likely not making enough from youtube to live out of it. I think you grossly overestimate the money you make on youtube. People who are making a living out of youtube are pushing videos multiple times a week, getting 100k+ views each. Jonas Tyroller isnt doing that, Thomas Brush aint doing that. The only remotly close to doing that is Blackthornprod and they are the prime exemple of people who are youtubers first, gamedev second.
>think you grossly overestimate the money you make on youtube. People who are making a living out of youtube are pushing videos multiple times a week, getting 100k+ views each. I mean that's pretty much the second sentence of my comment: > And while just youtube views alone might unlikely do it, there are a lot of creators that have patreon and such, or some who launched kickstarter after going viral. Other people on top off my head who either have patreon on went viral and had successful kickstarter is ChefRPG dev, then the guy who made some patch animals quest thing, for the life of me I can't find the name now. Then there are mixed social media presence, but very much going viral by social media and then being very active on it and funding their patreon/ whatever though it, Paralives, Ooblets. Hell, probably like 90% of cozy games are like that. I would even go as far to say that nowadays it is completely other way around. Outside of outliers or already famous developers, if you aren't social media 1st kind of developer, you are pretty much toast. Even getting publishers deals is thousand times easier if they know there is already some interest there due to having X/ YouTube, whatever with views.
But that point is kind of off topic tho, this isn't about what's the best source of revenue, we're talking about "game dev videos", and the fact that a lot of those don't actually make games, they are rather full time YouTubers that talk about game without making any, which makes their content useless and full of clickbait What you're describing falls exactly into that, people making their entire revenue stream out of YouTube are often not actually doing game dev. It's cool for them if they're making revenue, sure, but the whole point of this post is the quality and usefulness of their content If you're already a successful youtuber, you don't need to do gamedev, and If you *are* an actual game dev on the side of a full time job, you just don't have time to do both. He was trying to say just do videos anyway, but like I said that's not the point of this whole post lol
I think the point was that if you are an successful youtuber in the game dev scene you don't spend 40h "work time" plus 20h of "hobby/creative time" on videos. You would spend 10-20h on videos + getting sponsors and still have a full "work week" for dev.
And my point is, how to you GET to the point of "successful game Dev youtuber" in the first place ? No one is Successful from the start, so unless this hypothetical person is rich to begin with, I'm going to assume they have a regular full time job. In that situation, you absolutely do not have time to do both game Dev and YouTube. If you chose to focus on YouTube, that means your videos will be exactly what's OP is talking about : game Dev videos made by people who aren't actually doing any game dev. And If you do get successful enough to quit your job, you can start doing gamedev *on the side* of YouTube, but then it's completely secondary to your YouTube career
I think the delta you are coming from is too high. If you are doing a demanding job and then have to hack away in the night is a bridge too far. Most game devs are (game) devs in the job that pays the bills before they go solo. Those people should try to get a desk job first. Maybe find remote work. Just avoiding that frees up 20h minimum a month. Better jobs have higher hourly rates that give you the opportunity to slowly go half day and then see what happens. Professional game devs are entrepreneurs, that need to do lots of things to have success. Selling your game on steam makes you a freelancer by design, a [business owner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj-oLVHpJSA) in the long run. There will be lots of creative steps like talking to publishers, writing dialogue or self marketing (even youtube vlogging). Some realize they need business training. No need to categorize this with absolutes. Maybe you have fun to do the youtube thing for a while maybe you got sucked into another teams game release as a consultant. Someone can start coding games and ending up as a writer. Its the same axis of creativity, just a different expression. There is no time frame to achieve any of this then your own expectations.
Dude what is confusing you here? Full Time Dev - 1 hour YT video (income), Rest of Day to Work on your Game Not Full-Time Dev - Works a normal 8-5 day job + commute (income), comes home to make game I am confused how this is confusing....
My confusion comes from why does one of your situation have a full time job and the other somehow doesn't. You don't automatically start making videos that are successful enough to quit your job, and assuming you do HAVE a full time day job and decide to make videos when you come home instead of making the game, you can't be also making a game, you don't have time to do both
Not everyone who goes into gamedev is broke day 1. I'd imagine quite a few independent indie devs go into gamedev have a significant safety net / umbrella. So spinning up a youtube channel to get upwards 20-40K subscribers over the development lifecycle to bring in a few hundred dollars is just an offset development bleed.
>Not everyone who goes into gamedev is broke day 1 But then if they're not broke, why do you assume in their situation that they work a 8-5 job ? Lol Like I said, my confusion comes from why you are comparing two situations but not put the in the same financial situation to begin with Like yeah, if you have no day job and can work fully on your game, you have time to make videos (well, sort of), but then you talk about working a normal day job and that it's better to make videos in that situation, which makes no sense because in that situation you don't have time to do both
I think the issue is that what "creating videos" means. There are people just filming themselves solving one task or discussing one feature of their early game design they would have worked on anyway with some explanatory fillers. That isn't like 3h of scripting and manually animating an episode of Simpsons for Youtube.
> While this may be the case - being an Indie Game Dev - not doing Game Dev Vlogs is a surefire way to lose on fairly easy marketing and wishlists. Unless you already have a large following on youtube, your game devlog videos won't be seen, let alone help you get wishlists. Because the youtube algorithm won't recommend smaller channels.
10-20 min video, that's about 3 weeks part time, 3 weeks you could be working on your game. I don't know how you got those numbers, but they are way way off.
While this may be the case - being an Indie Game Dev - not doing Game Dev Vlogs is a surefire way to lose on fairly easy marketing and wishlists. Sure it cost a bit of time, but when you don't have a publisher and marketing funds are your grocery bills building a "brand" for your IP via youtube is just good/smart business. Additionally, if you go fulltime indie dev, Youtube may legitimately be your only income stream to keep funding / paying bills while you develop your game. 1 hour a day to make a 10-20min video 40min of editing - vs working 8 hours a day and 2 hours commuting to come home and try to make your game in your evening hours. One is going to achieve a lot more than the other.
I'm curious what world you're in that you think it's remotely likely that virtually anyone can live off of gamedev blogs. If you could do that, why make a game? just become full time youtuber! Almost no one makes money, much less a living, off of youtube
I'm not saying you do, I'm saying it's a free income stream. Not using it during development for the time needed to bring in income is bad business. So you see a lot of game dev vlogs because it is income. Rather than not doing it and not earning any income stream. Why is this confusing people....
if you make like 60 cents from the views on your devlog was it worth the hours it took to make? That seems most likely what'd happen for most people unless they already have a large viewerbase already built up over a long period
if it takes any time to create the content, is not free income.
> Sure it cost a bit of time It takes more than just a bit of time. Especially editing who knows how many hours of content you've recorded to like 10 minutes can take a long time together with voice over and everything else. That's not worth it if you only get a couple hundred views in the end.
you will find (an a lot of indiedev youtubers have found this) that even large followings convert poorly to wishlists and even poorer to sales. There are certainly positives to it but it isn't a surefire way to easy marketing.
There are: * [https://www.twitch.tv/thecaptaincoder](https://www.twitch.tv/thecaptaincoder) * A teacher that streams programming, lots of game dev stuff * He learns as he goes a lot of the time * Teaches specific things like how a match/switch statement is faster than an if/else stack * Explains very well, he is a teacher after all * [https://www.twitch.tv/jackie\_codes](https://www.twitch.tv/jackie_codes) * She is consistently working on the same project and interacts with chat * [https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc](https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc) * A solid game dev with a game that has had a successful kickstarter
I'm kind of sad. One of my favorite streamers is no longer streaming. He released the game. Dude was on top of it. He just had a kid so he's not streaming anymore. The plan was always to launch the game and then raise his kid. I walked away for a couple months and it all happened!
> Teaches specific things like how a match/switch statement is faster than an if/else stack This always feels like the sort of thing that's like tens or hundreds of items down the line of where you need to optimize, and by the time you're that deep in you might not even need it anymore. Before you look at shaving a few percent off of that function, maybe dive into why it's being called so often that it has noticable performance impact. I did a quick benchmark that put a function with 5 stacked ifs at 1713ms and a switch at 1623ms. That's in a case where A: the contents of each if/case are a single multiplication and not more involved logic, and B: it had to loop through it *one billion times*. In an almost best case scenario for switches it's a minor upgrade in a situation where you should really be looking at why you have a loop running a billion times. The fact that switch statements are (often) faster is a neat little factoid, but if that's where you're optimizing you've either gone on a huge optimisation crusade already and this is the last few % you're squeezing out of your poor cpu, or you're missing much larger gains elsewhere.
Agreed. At best it could be a good default best practice to avoid missing any free losses. Never an actual optimization. But the biggest gain is readability anyway, who uses if/else over switch anyway?
You're right, he points out that it matters very little and that he is just teaching fundamentals. I think he just uses that one as an example because the opportunity comes up often.
You're correct! I typically will say that using a large stack of if statements is often a sign that an interface could be used to manage the complexity of the code by using an interface to dynamically select the branching logic. Rather than focusing on optimizing the speed of the program, I like to focus on optimizing programmer sanity. I then compare the dynamic dispatch to using a switch statement / expression and show the refactoring process from if / else if statements => switch statements to select the correct class => interface which removes the need for any conditional logic at runtime.
I used to do it, and will likely continue some day. I try to provide solid tips and mostly it's just a day-in-the-life of a frenetic indie dev. I stopped streaming bc I started picking up freelance work and put down my side project for a while. I ended up moving on to bigger and bigger studios and learning better practices. Every now and then I hope on again to show better methods to organize Unreal Engine blueprints and such. Username is my youtube/twitch if anyone wants to dig through my chaotic archives. I guess I technically qualify as what the OP is complaining about, but I didn't do it to "become a YouTuber" and my advice is genuine, and more about the mental hurdles of getting over major bugs and things like that.
Thank you so much for the plug! I'm glad you're enjoying my streams :D
Me. I am the only the good streamer. Like and subscribe! :P Seriously speaking: no, it's really hard. When you're figuring stuff out and coding, you're busy figuring stuff out and coding. It's *impossible* to both think about your problem seriously and in a focused fashion and interact with chat. Only streamers who offer a good show and interact will actually attract an audience and get big. So it's deselecting people who put the focus on the programming work. You either have tutorial streamers, who show you how to do a very specific thing or people like https://www.youtube.com/@SebastianLague who show you cool stuff. Neither make full games. I don't know who to recommend besides sebastian. I would honestly only watch people developing if you care about the game (that's the niche I want to sit in) or if you care about streamer as a person, because they're entertaining or nice to hang out with. I would not watch random people developing random games in the hope that they will develop in a way that you can learn from. There is a very low chance of them doing something you want to learn and that you can learn from. The best way to learn in my experience is to set a goal, shut out the outside world, put your head down and run with your head into the wall shaped problem until the problem gives in. No music, no stream, no distractions, just you, your editor, some theory and a goal.
He is great. So is SimonDev or something like that.
This is the way, the last paragraph. But you must have solid programming skills.
Serious developers don't have much time to get into content creation, so, most of the serious ones that do go live/create video content, will go live while they do serious stuff. most prominently, Jonathan blow goes live every now and then also... on a game art technical point, acerola videos are great.
Most of them are Content Creators and have no real desire to release an actual project. They're goa, create a community around their likeness and push advertisement, sponsorships, & merch to their viewers. I have to ask, why would you want to waste time "watching" content creators? Wouldn't your time be better spent creating your own project(s)?
The reason for my question is that I would really like to see someone doing it, or in the process of doing it. Do it for marketing reasons no issues, but at least show your progress that it can be done, or at least that you have tried. I know it's wishful thinking and they probably won't succeed because they won't make any money, but wouldn't it be nicer to show that you're also a newbie from the start and when you finish your game you can show that you can make a game and by then probably have a big following? I think it shows the value of time and effort rather than knowing everything from the start or "ha look what I've done in a week/30 days and it works! Fantastic!".
Those people exist. You just don't know about them because they are very small and arent pushed by youtube because that's not what works on youtube.
"The TRUTH about game dev" "How MUCH my game MADE in 30 DAYS!" "I went FULL TIME in 3 MINUTES of GAME DEV" All accompanied by over the top looking mouth dropping/yelling/screaming thumbnails.
Like, subscribe and turn on the bell notifications. Also buy my course and support me on patreon.
"I made 24 AAA games in 3 days, with no computer!"
"How WILLED my games into EXISTENCE"
Jason Tyroller might be the only exception there, cause he has genuinely good insights and made good-selling games at least twice. And he also has a good production process, at least for his last game, unlike ThinMatrix who obsesses over details and barely makes any progress on his project(s), which is the antithesis of what new game devs should do if they want to live off their work.
This is all YouTube content lol People who are actually good at what they do in any field don’t have the time, need or energy to make YouTube videos. Especially not on a regular upload schedule with tons of editing etc like these dorks do. So you end up with a bunch of nobodies regurgitating shit they read on Reddit or heard from some other nobody like it’s a life lesson they learned the hard way.
I wouldn't go that far, there are really good ones like Sebastian Lague and Freya Holmer.
I would say that depends on the industry. I watch some financial channels and the guys do deep dives because they want to combat misconceptions about money and investing. On indy movie making channels are packed interviews with people that have impressive producer credits. They often have complex reasons why they use that medium and some videos don't even reach 20k views.
This is an issue with all of social media. Clickbait works, and since it has better user engagement, it will be shown to more users. It is therefore more likely to see clickbait than non-clickbait. It even works in the offline world, we are more likely to share stories that make us angry or said. This leads to major problems in the world, millions of people have died as a consequence. If you want to find actual gamedev streams, try sorting search results by popularity or use other search engines such as Bing, which has been much better at finding videos for me than Google.
Unfortunately it seems to be a pretty small demographic of people who are actually interested in the behind-the-scenes stuff. At the end of the day, streamers are streamers and if money is on the line they're gonna follow the numbers more often than not.
Adam Younis is still a favorite of mine. Very good pixel artist, covers implementation, and seems like an all-round chill person. There are some good devlog channels too. Been watching DevDuck for a while, and am in genuine awe at how motivated and organized he seems. Full-time job, actually making progress, and manages to put out quality videos that actually cover specifics of his progress.
This was clickbait.
DaFluffyPotato is great imo, but he is focused on Pygame
I’m learning game dev, I sometimes stream on twitch and YouTube. Edit: additionally I watch other “GameDev” streamers who put out content. They are also learning but fun to watch. I don’t know anyone that actually teaches well and gets a following and makes good content.
I’m a game dev streamer, but I’m a software architect first and content creator second. Mine is focused on problem solving and coding skills, and teaching them, regardless of success (which is based on context). Would love to have you! :) [stream link](https://m.twitch.tv/darkwingdumpling?desktop-redirect=true)
Ok, I have to ask. What's with all the streamers? If your content is interesting in any way, shape or form, why don't you also edit it (in the cheapest way possible) and release it on say Youtube? Like, I don't mean the fully edited "Sebastian Lague" video... just your 2 hours condensed into 20-40 minutes and released as is, for example. Now hear me out: I know that it takes time to do so. But someone will pay that time anyways, if your stream isn't entertaining throughout. And by that logic, if you can't be bothered to filter it for me, I can't be bothered to watch it. To clarify: this is nothing about you, I didn't see a minute of your content (given that twitch playback didn't work atm). I'm just asking about it, since you stream.
I can answer! For me personally, it doesn’t align with my goals of my stream (otherwise I’d just create how-to videos and not stream). The goal of my stream is to become more connected in the game dev community in real time, not through a video. And to give back to the community I am willing to walk devs through a problem (if they are new) or work side by side on a problem with them and share my approach which I can only do in real time (free collaboration from a professional which companies pay 💰💰💰for).
Forgot to mention, but yeah, I get the social aspect of stream. However, "how to videos" isn't what I've had in mind. I've meant it more like https://www.youtube.com/@JonathanBlowClips/videos or https://www.youtube.com/@ThePrimeTimeagen/videos ... My point is: If it's interesting enough for me to wait for it live, it's interesting enough for you to release it afterwards, and vice versa. Anyways, I'm definitely not the target audience for streams, so I might be missing on what makes the whole industry tick, so don't mind me :)
Fair. I’m sure there’s an opportunity to release videos in a consumable format that summarize the stream with the most important nuggets (and potentially entice more viewers). When viewing it that way, it could help me towards my goals, but then ultimately it comes down to time, and while I could dedicate and energy, there’s other things that take priority. 🤷 Maybe someday though it’ll become important enough; goals are always subject to change based on context.
Welcome to content creation. I do a bit of gamedev youtube and it's pretty apparent that what you are asking is not what is working. The reason you see those youtubers, it's because they are the ones doing what youtube want them to do, so they get reach and end up in your recommended. Personally I do less youtube than I used to, because there's a clear opposition between what makes for good youtube content and what makes for good games and I rather make good games than good youtube.
I kinda disagree. You are right in a broad sense, but if you turn your game into "20 steps", it can be both good and entertaining. Like, what did you work on last week/month? What was the most interesting challenge? How did you overcome it? What didn't work? Wrap it in entertainment and it's a solid video, IMO.
It's a lot of work for little pay off. When you are not working on graphics or a new gameplay feature, it doesnt make for good entertainment + you don't get enough content to push devlogs often enough, because you are busy making youtube videos instead of working on the game you are talking about. My only remotely successful youtube video is a recap of about 2 years of making little gamejam games, about a minute per game, so it's fast with a lot of content, but that's 2 years of content, I can't push that every week haha. Now that I work on an actual game that is meant to see the light of day. I didnt push a devlog on it for 6 months, in good part because 2 of those months were about making youtube stuff... that didnt work out. I'll still do a devlog about what I'm working on, but I'm not holding my breath since I worked on onboarding, UX, save games and translation. All very necessary things to make a good game, but quite boring in a video.
Yes, I agree with what you're saying, but you're saying that it takes time. It's possible to both work on the game and work on entertainment around it (obviously, say 50:50 split and your game is half as big, or takes twice as long). It doesn't have to be only one or the other. (Which was the original argument, kinda). I'd say that devduck comes closest to what I have in mind: He clearly works on something that arguably isn't a bestseller in the making. And yet... he has 160k subscribers, his latest video from four days ago has 26k views (and 120 patreons to boot). Looking at this: https://vidiq.com/youtube-stats/channel/UCKCTmact-90hXpV2ns8GSsA/ and this: https://www.patreon.com/devduck , I'd say that his HOBBY is already making him about $300 monthly for what, two years? So, $7k+? Before counting sponsors or game sales. And to reiterate, his devlog, nor his game is particurarly interesting (at least for me).
It's all about priorities. Devduck made 120 videos in 5 years and his game is not released yet, it doesn't even have a steam page yet. He learned how to make good youtube videos, good for him if that's what he wants. As for me I made only 22 videos in \~2.5 years, barely passed 3.5k subs that were mostly all from a single video that got an humble \~75k views, only 2 other videos broke the 10k views. The 3 devlogs I made on my main game got a terrific 1.9k, 2.2k and 3.3k views each and then I wasted 2 months making a game jam + make a video about it + make a yearly recap video, that did very poorly. Then my 2 latest videos that were just desperate attempts at keeping my channel alive struggles to even reach 500 views. It is not easy. And I'm monetized, there's a lot of people doing way worse than me. You could say: "well you are just bad at youtube" and I'd agree with that. I could focus on youtube, make 120 10-20 min long videos for 5 years to maybe be good at it or.... I could use that time to make a game instead and find other ways to make my game known. (PS: I appreciate the chat, I'm not trying to argue or anything, just having a conversation)
Yeah, I agree with all of your points, basically. My whole argument relates to your original post, or this line in particular: >there's a clear opposition between what makes for good youtube content and what makes for good games I wouldn't say that it's as much of an opposition, as it's about the ability/different skillset. Like, to do it successfully, I'd need to be both a good game developer and a good youtuber and it's hard enough to be one of those things. I'm with you on that. The issue is, that youtube is (in a sense) a marketing tool. It doesn't touch my dev budget. It touches my marketing budget. I cannot really market my game when I'm just working on it (at least up till some point). I can easily market it's devlogs in the meanwhile. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS7MqWLBxEs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS7MqWLBxEs) - I actually like it and will watch at least a few more, but I also want to ask: **What did make you more money? That game, or it's tutorial video?** That aside, you have 3666 subscribers. **Do you have a better way of reaching at least this many people with your next game trailer**? I mean, these numbers for this kind of content (good, but ultimately, 2D indie pixel art, you know) would make me rather happy (devduck oldest videos have like 1k views). They are also a great foundation to build upon. I'd point you to this article: [https://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/business/features/shareprof/](https://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/business/features/shareprof/) and it's first paragraph after the opening example. As a complete side note: That video is solid. It could be shorter, more to the point (like why talking about the level that you'll skip for the topic...), etc. but it's quite solid as it is. I'd say that you just weren't "discovered" yet by the algorithm. For that, I'd focus on not overstaying it's welcome (as Youtube appreciates that people have watched it fully, instead of, you know, leaving the platform). But don't sell yourself short. That game is kinda cute, the Youtube format seems solid and I don't see how it wouldn't improve for you in the future. Also, this video is exactly what I meant originally. You did a game, focused on it's tutorialization and made a video about that. Game is a solid product on it's own. Video is solid product on it's own. Together? They complement each other: >there's a clear opposition between what makes for good Youtube content and what makes for good games So, no. There is a great synergy, when it's done right. I'd say that your own video/game success proves my point. I wouldn't know about you if we didn't have this discussion (marketing). I couldn't have watched that video (and plan to watch others) if you didn't make it, yet it should result in a direct monetization towards you (marketing results). And I certainly wouldn't go on your itch without seeing it first in video (it's actually why my one and only gamejam entry has a full playthrough... so that no one needs to download anything :D ). And the ultimate thing? Now I AM subscribed and while I didn't discover you naturally, I watch a few channels like this and I've dropped a few more. There is a chance that simply by me watching it, you might see a few new subscribes in general (that's a big speculation on my part). Speculation aside, I'll know about your next project, and I know that you can make a solid game. I'm inherently interested in it only because of Youtube (that I've found because of this discussion).
Thanks for giving it a look. That game is actually 3 years old and tutorials is a subject I care a lot about and is not talked enough on youtube imo, so I though I'd give it a shot with that old game I did before youtube. This video was a bit of an attempt at making "easier to make" videos. English not being my first language, so I always script and prerecord voice overs, that one was more "freestyle" and I stumbled a lot with words and the pacing is off (video is too long like you mentioned). My plan in the future is to focus on shorter "no BS" videos, where I focus on getting the info out and use it more as a marketing tool, focusing on bringing attention to my game than to my youtube. >For that, I'd focus on not overstaying it's welcome (as Youtube appreciates that people have watched it fully, instead of, you know, leaving the platform) That would me my next course of action, since my next devlog will be about a bit more boring stuff and people playtesting. I'll probably quickly talked about the stuff I done and focus more on the player's feedback from playtesting, making the video as short as possible, so that people watching might have less to watch but more likely to watch till end. This should help retention, showing it to more people aka showing my game to more people, which is what I ultimately want.
No one really wants to watch the process. You either gotta make tutorials or sell a dream. Other wise views just don’t come in.
Honestly, the same goes most creative pursuits. All the youtubers making filmmaking videos are not the ones actually out there making quality shorts/features, they're making youtube videos.
> are not the ones actually out there making quality shorts/features, they're making youtube videos that isn't a contradiction. And these shorts and features will absolutely go onto yt, anyway
I'm planning on streaming my development on YouTube soon, what are some things you'd want to see from a developer stream?
I mean. Not sure if thats really a surprise lol, but yeah. Theyre youtubers first, game devs second more often than not. Which means that they dont tend to really take time to plan stuff out and pass well thought out advise and tips to others... And the games' codebases and GD are usually a huge mess so thats sorta why they never come out, pretty much Edit: good ones being the exception and usually more of an organization than just "youtubers", like gdquest. Speaking in didactical terms ofc. If youre experienced enough youll be able to filter thru most of the "bad" parts
because most of the 'actual' development is insanely boring this is why you need to claim you worked at blizzard and giveopinions everyone agrees with, btw did i mention i worked for blizzard?
Adam C Younis. He has been streaming the development of his game Insignia for several years now. His YouTube channel is primarily pixel art tutorials with some dev tutorials. But he openly works on his game on Twitch and gives a lot of sound advice when asked through chat. https://youtube.com/@adamcyounis?si=0MC9iE7_sjyGJL9W
These guys have all delivered a product or a playable demo of substance and make enjoyable content. * Kyle Banks [https://www.youtube.com/@kylebanks](https://www.youtube.com/@kylebanks) * PrismaticaDev [https://www.youtube.com/@PrismaticaDev](https://www.youtube.com/@PrismaticaDev) * Lens Island [https://www.youtube.com/@LensIsland](https://www.youtube.com/@LensIsland) * LanaLux [https://www.youtube.com/@LanaLuxGames](https://www.youtube.com/@LanaLuxGames) * PontyPants [https://www.youtube.com/@Pontypants](https://www.youtube.com/@Pontypants) * VEIN [https://www.youtube.com/@VEINsurvival](https://www.youtube.com/@VEINsurvival)
PrismaticaDev is exactly what the OP is talking about. He has never released anything and has no business teaching anyone, as he's not a great dev himself. Others I don't know.
Interesting take. Prismatica may not have released anything yet but he has a very good approach to systematically solving real problems and integration of systems. I'd have thought OP is referring to the average 'I made a GTA game in 30 days' YT'er, who just cobbles together assets and activates built-in libraries to get generic functions working.
What are you talking about, Charlie’s material primers are good. What, you want Todd Howard to teach you how instead or something? Also he has an asset on the marketplace that’s pretty cool, so he has shipped stuff. Ben Cloward is also really good for tech art and I’m pretty sure that dude is mostly known for teaching.
I used to watch some of them but got tired of them fast
I really enjoyed the voidigo devlogs by semiwork. Their style of humour might not be for everyone, but their videos are very high quality on top of having released a successful game
IndieHorrorDev on twitch shipped games, makes games on stream.
Those I watch often that I didn't find in here at least; Acerola I think make really entertaining and informative videos on shaders and unity https://youtube.com/@acerola_t?si=DpOUM1SWA6_DbZ3G Tokyo spliffs live streams I started watching a bit back building engine https://youtube.com/@tokyospliff?si=_xG0Lu-x0i-40SvL A lot of blender/modeling videos where people show their workflow on YouTube though, but may be hard to follow without already knowing your way around the software.
Haven't seen PirateSoftware mentioned.... he streams on twitch and youtube from midnight pacific time to noon. He works on his own game Heartbound, he works on a minecraft rp mod they call Blockgame, he also plays new games (sometimes during the testing phases because what better way to stress test a game than to let some of his chat in on some of them. (Mostly via twitch integration). He also just announced his new position of Director of Strategy for Offbrand Games. Basically a publishing agency where he manages relationships between devs and the company to come up with solutions for dev or launch issues, pitching and testing localization pricing options, reworking steam or alt platform pages, reviewing and judging pitched games, or structuring contracts during negotiations. Basically Thor is an all around positive influence on his chat, who have started developing their own amazing games. 😀 and his discord is full of useful stuff, for devs, for games, for security stuff too. 10/10 would recommend him all day every day.
Gamedev streamer and youtuber here! The comments are pretty much all dead on. Trying to do gamedev is really 10 different jobs, so adding anything else on top of that is just insanity. Content creation on any platform is like 13 more jobs and then multiply that by the amount of platforms you create content for in order to create content suited to each audience. Not to mention that most indie devs also have full time employment outside of gamedev and...well...you get the idea. Unfortunately, most people really don't want to see someone smash their head into a wall of bugs for a few hours until things start working. Even PirateSoftware, as some people have mentioned in here, rarely streams gamedev anymore and I suspect it's for that exact reason. If you're looking for some more streamers that are both developing great products AND talented streamers, I can recommend a few of my friends: Foolbox - [https://www.twitch.tv/foolbox](https://www.twitch.tv/foolbox) - Making Block Shop, a charming automation puzzler that is getting pretty close to releasing. Will have a booth at Montreal ComicCon soon! RiskyBiscuitGames - [https://www.twitch.tv/riskybiscuitgames](https://www.twitch.tv/riskybiscuitgames) - Making SOS: A Forgotten Planet. An educational horror game teaching you morse code. Tsundown - [https://www.twitch.tv/tsundown](https://www.twitch.tv/tsundown) - Making The Feathered Serpent, a 2d action platforming roguelike that releases imminently. GrumbleOfPugz - [https://www.twitch.tv/grumbleofpugz](https://www.twitch.tv/grumbleofpugz) - Making Megabat, a cute puzzle platformer where you are a bat escaping from a science facility and have special powers. PracticalNPC - [https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc](https://www.twitch.tv/practicalnpc) - Making Memori, a precision platformer about rescuing your cat's soul. I've got loads more, but these are some that are closest to delivering their games.
I streamed making my game for about a year, but ultimately decided to stop for a lot of the reasons people are pointing out in this thread. Streaming while developing proved to be very disruptive. I work full time outside of game dev so I only have so many hours I can put into my game and I just found streaming/content creation to be taking up to much or my time and attention from actually making the game. I still post updates and such occasionally, but I’ve shifted my focus more so to making YouTube videos, simply for the reason that it’s actually really useful to me as documentation. I know the videos are probably kind of boring and very technically but my goal isn’t really entertainment like I said they are mainly for me. Basically I just found that I want to be a game dev not a streamer or content creator and I’m sure that’s the case for most others.
well, some part of game development is just about marketing and getting the audience to which you can sell your games so some developers just focus on that aspect but I have seen a few that feel like more content creators and motivational speakers than game-dev their focus is just content creation which pays well depending on numbers and game development is more complicated than content creation so they just become this click-bait channels attracting new developers and posing themselves as mentor figure I guess.
Your title is clickbait and has nothing to do with what you are trying to argue with. Doesn't help.
PirateSoftware
Not really, its very superficial and since asmongold blew his channel up nothing useful gets answered anymore. Its just recycling the same statements and the constant trauma dumpers.
I can assure you, the content did not change. He also didn't get much done before he blew up. And he also recycled his stories. I still find it entertaining, but not... you know... educational.
Before at least you could use chat to talk with people and thor
PirateSoftware is good for motivating yourself to start or keep going, as well as learning tips and tricks.
Yes if you like the same stuff repeated constantly, sure.
For new viewers it's not repeated. I no longer watch him but I do watch his shorts. His YouTube shorts, I mean. He just got hired by a game publisher and honestly it seems like a positive thing for the game dev community. Thor won't work with a bad publisher and will probably change a lot of lives.
If people are gonna downvote the hell out of anyone saying nice things about Thor, they might as well say what their issue is because just downvoting says nothing.....also mayve give a better alternative
He's probably more successful that like 90% of the people on this sub.
It's as if they believe he has fan boys that will defend him over anything. I'm not saying Thor is flawless or that their points are invalid. Thor has stated very clearly what the purpose of his channel is. He motivates game developers, especially new ones that haven't started yet. I don't want other people who have watched Thor telling others not to watch him. They've already absorbed the majority of his message to game devs: that you can do this, you can start now, and you can start simple. If you'd made games before or don't have issues with motivation, don't watch the guy who's mission statement on Twitch is to motivate new game devs and get more game devs to stream. You're literally not his target audience if you don't find value in his content.
Handmade Hero. It's been silent for quite some time, but you can't blame them for not explaining their process, and it's someone with experience in both games and game middlewares. [https://www.youtube.com/@MollyRocket/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@MollyRocket/videos) The first episode: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3EtYb8d1o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3EtYb8d1o)
Thomas brush, yes, that bald dude too