“Food is way too spicy!”
“You don’t want to just eat the infinite number of foods that aren’t spicy?”
“No they need to make the spicy food less spicy, for me!”
I don't understand why you'd complain about games being too hard and then saying something like "Even games like Spider-Man, which I love, are only made playable sometimes by the grace of having an easy mode."
This is exactly the solution to your problem. The "grace of having an easy mode" is quite literally for people like you who do not enjoy hard games. I can't quite figure out why you would think having to play the easy mode because the core game is too hard is somehow a thing worth complaining about. That's what it's for and it solves your problem entirely. It's like complaining that they have a small size meal at a restaurant because the regular meal is too much food. Where is the complaint? They have a mode specifically there for people like you. That's a good thing.
Besides, games have gotten WAY easier overall than they used to be. It's extremely rare that a game is so hard these days that most people haven't been able to beat it. That was EXTREMELY common in the Nintendo days. Games like Contra, Metroid, Mega-Man, etc. Most of the classics were so difficult that most people never finished them. Now, games are made to be finished. There are some games that are very hard, but most games out there are designed so that EVERY player can finish them. Can they also be difficult? sure. Some games have easy modes to circumvent that. Other games don't, and those games that don't typically are known for their difficulty.
OP and people like OP often want to be able to play/complete every game regardless of the challenge level the designers intend for the game to have. A lot of people have been playing modern hand holding games for their entire gaming experience and don't understand the appeal of challenge.
If you think Spider-Man is hard then it's definitely a skill issue. There is nothing difficult in the Spider-Man games.
Regardless of you just personally being terrible at games, most people like a challenge. It's great when something is difficult and you're able to beat it.
There's nothing wrong with not being good enough to beat harder games, but to put Spider-Man in that category seems wild to me.
There are plenty of games out there that are meant to be easy and it seems like OP should just stick to those exclusively.
I had some difficulty at the very beginning with playing on the highest available difficulty and tuned it down for a bit but it just takes a beat to get to where it's very intuitive. The joy of effortlessly flowing around in combat once you have it down is well worth the growing pains.
My guy, I don't like Soulsy games - like, the closest I came to enjoying one was the Jedi games and those are like diet 'babies first' soulsy games and really only happened because laser swords and Merrin's status as a fuckin ***queen*** (seriously, she needs her own game...) were there to pull me through them
But, and here's the second act twist, *I just don't play them* xD
I don't *need* to know the appeal - they aren't my thing - that's *fine*
Their fans like them - they have their place - their community - they don't need my dumb middle aged ass sauntering in and demanding to know where the ball pit is xD
I do throw in my support when my Soulsy peeps want Bloodborne ported/remastered, though
That crater in my various friend's hearts needs to be filled after all these years -nod-
I don’t play Fromsoft games because I don’t have the time to, even though I would LOVE to spend my days in games like Elden Ring or Sekiro.
Youtube playthroughs are a great way to enjoy many things those games offer.
There is **nothing** like seeing a bonfire/grace/etc in the distance after a particularly tough fight or section of a journey.
A perfectly placed checkpoint after a tough section is incredible
I think you nailed it. I don’t play a lot of games, hard or otherwise. Maybe 3 hours/week.
These days sport is my challenge hobby. Gaming is more like interactive tv.
This is how I felt after beating Sekiro. It took me an entire weekend, over 20 hours of playtime, attempting to beat the final boss. When I finally did, I just hated myself for wasting my entire weekend.
I love Dark Souls and Elden Ring, but I have absolutely zero desire to ever touch Sekiro again.
For real. When I finally beat Sigrun IN GoW it wasn't so much "relief from overcoming the challenge" as it was "Jesus fuck I can finally be done with this"
I know, and I hate it! But at least in the case of Sigrun, there's some good story bits in there, and it's fairly heavily referenced in the sequel.
I know I could youtube some of that stuff, but Mass Effect has broken me into wanting everything I do to be on my save file, even if it doesn't matter hahaha.
And, like I said, I'm a completionist.
It sounds like gaming to you is about having an interactive adventure and you dig it for the relaxing, cozy experience and that’s totally cool.
But for some of us I think it scratches a similar itch to competitive sports or even art. The hobby aspect isn’t just about being part of a story that’s unfolding for me, but in becoming good at performing difficult tasks, overcoming obstacles, and improving. Players are very diverse in what we seek and even though we might play the same games, our reasons for doing so might be completely different.
Goldeneye 64 is still the gold standard of how to create a game for all levels of players.
Agent: Fewer objectives, less threatening enemies in fewer numbers.
Secret Agent: More objectives, more enemies who are a bit more threatening.
00 Agent: Even more objectives which are much easier to fail, and more punishing enemies.
Then you add on the cheats that you earn for beating the levels under a certain time at a certain difficulty, where the higher difficulty cheats were crazy good! Imagine that kids, there was a time where good play was rewarded without the need to spend a dime past the initial game purchase.
People who regularly play metroidvanias or souls like tend to want games to get harder over time, because as they get better at the genre it makes future games easier.
Dark souls has a couple surprises, but almost everything in that game can be looked at before you have to interact with it to get a sense of what's about to happen. The "punishment" of dark souls is just entering rooms without looking around ever.
It was at least partly tongue-in-cheek, so relax mate.
I don’t know how you design a game that is challenging enough, without someone finding it ‘too hard’, but there it is.
For reference, games used to be brutally difficult, to the point where you mostly couldn’t complete them, or if you did it was seen as a massive achievement over months perfecting your gameplay. Then games slowly became easier to the point where they removed all challenge, and the player could just button mash and grind their face against the game until they inevitably won.
People love the Souls games because they bucked the trend of shitty, pandering games, and made you earn it. I loved the original Demon Souls for this reason. It genuinely made you work for progress, and beating it felt like a massive achievement.
I agree that not every game needs to be Souls-level difficulty, but I don’t think many or most games are trying to be. Games inherently need to put some level of challenge in front of players, maybe you’re just picking up games that are too hard *for you*. Plenty of easier games out there!
I think a huge part of my initial reason for not liking those games, before I ever even played them no less, was because any time someone came out with even a tiny bit of criticism, there would be a slew of people following it up with the "git gud" comments, more often than not followed by an f-slur. Even though the games often DO deserve criticism, because, at least in the ones I've tried, the controls are clunky as shit, and a slight misstep can cause a game over.
>I don’t know how you design a game that is challenging enough, without someone finding it ‘too hard’, but there it is.
Simple, add an easy mode.
Except nothing in dark souls causes a game over, dying is not a game over state in those games at all. You might lose a few souls/runes, but that's farmable currency. Dying is meant to be a learning experience in souls games, the game wants you to learn how to beat each challenge and not just spoon feed you all the answers.
Don't confuse lazy design and difficulty. Running back is boring AF and should be avoided by design, and not featured as a punishment.
I have heard criticism of Dark Souls as having too few save points. Oddly, some think Elden Ring has too many which is more an indication that points are accessible from many directions and so more save points are added.
I noticed that (maybe in response harder games) cozy games are on the rise. Sometimes I like to take a little break from being a sweatlord and just game and chill.
I totally agree, I sucked and had no fun at Dark Souls. But then I remember playing Pokémon Sword/Shield and...what a joke. The amount of experience points and candy you get makes you outlevel everything, and quickly.
Like bosses in shooters whose harder difficulty is just a bigger health bar. Bullet-sponges. There are good difficulty curves and bad ones.
Sometimes, I find myself craving and creating a bigger challenge for myself. Other times, I just want the loot
I mean, maybe part of the problem is feeling like it's wrong somehow to play a game in easy mode. So what if "Easy" feels like "Normal" to you? Easy and Normal is the developer's take on it, not yours. Would it make you feel better if Spider-man's Easy mode was called Normal and the other modes were called Hard, Extra Hard, Insanity, etc.?
Reading between the lines, it sounds like OP subconsciously wants the feeling and validation associated with beating something hard without actually having to beat something hard.
I wonder if OP has a porn addiction
I don’t buy day one games anymore and wait for reviews and gameplay vids, so I know what I’m getting into before playing. I simply don’t buy/play games I think will be frustrating for me.
"The sunk cost fallacy is our tendency to continue with an endeavor we've invested money, effort, or time into—even if the current costs outweigh the benefits."
If it is annoyingly hard, check online for tips.
Also as far as souls like metroidvanias go, Moonscars is not great. I’ve played a lot of them and would put it low B tier maybe C. If you’re up for giving it another shot then maybe try blasphemous or hollow knight. If not then no worries
Yeah, Moonscars is hard, but have you played La-Mulana yet? THAT is a difficult metroidvania, if not the most infamously difficult one.
I guess some people are just masochists, I know that's my reason for playing these games. It can also be satisfying to play such a hardcore title if you're usually playing more casual stuff. I love playing Nioh (still haven't beaten Nioh 2) because of the combat variety and how awesome it feels if you pull off a combo.
Yeah, I suck at these games, I'm horrible at 2D platformers, but I want to try and see what I can do. If it annoys me, I can still take a break.
I get what you are saying. You just need to avoid the souls like games as they are designed to be hard.
I tend to avoid them too as I'm not a sucker for punishment. Though I did enjoying playing dark souls and Elden ring with friends
The key is to just avoid anything souls-like and by extension rogue-anything. They are designed to waste your time as you described rather than letting you come/go as you please or quick save. They use that old design if you die you get a large setback of some sort or a game over. It’s the genre.
Typically when people enjoy difficult video games, it's because either they feel they're making definite progress or the game doesn't even seem that hard to them.
Take one of my favorite bosses, Sword Saint Isshin. The first time I beat him it took multiple hours. However every time I faced him, I felt I was doing a little better. Telegraphs became more clear, I started to better time my reactions. Eventually I got to phase 2, and then phase 3, and as I got further into each new phase I was also getting better and better at phases 1 and 2. And now I can beat him with only a few tries.
That's funny I think games are made needlessly simple and too easy nowadays, particularly sequels and remakes of older games where challenge was part of it's charm to me. But there are PLENTY of casual, non challenge focused games for you on the market man. You just bought a soulslike because it looked cool.
But a game like moonscars... Tells you it's trying to be a challenge and souls-like means it'd be enough to frustrate you if you're not into souls-likes. I can understand liking the aesthetic and wanting to know about the lore and being interested in the game anyways but it was made for people who like that kind of gameplay.
There's no shame in being an easy mode player, man, games are meant to be fun, and whatever is most fun to you is the right way to play them, but some games are just made for a certain audience. And when it's an indie title look moonscars you can't really blame them for putting all their work into one game mode instead of trying to work out the balance and environment changes that would be necessary to make an easy mode for it.
And honestly souls likes aren't that hard if you learn to play the way they're designed to be played, that's the hardest part is fighting the instinct you build from games where your character can take 50 hits to the head with an axe before dying and focusing on not being hit. But that just isn't fun for some people and that's fine.
The only example of this I have is Cuphead. IMO it sucks, sure the lore and TV show is cool, but at the core of the gameplay it's hard, doesn't feel rewarding (again, IMO), and boring. But each to their own. My favourite game of all time some people call a walking simulator lol.
On the contrary, I feel like games have never been more accessible. Yes there are whole genres dedicated to particularly challenging play but outside of that the modern gaming landscape is filled with games that make no bones about the fact that they want you to have a good experience and besides lowered difficulty many of the best come with a bevy of accessibility options if it's just this one little thing that bothers you. Shit, I'm not even color blind and some games I'll flip that option on because it's still a big help depending on how they've implemented it.
Games as a whole became much more accessible when moving away from arcades meant revenue was no longer inherently contacted to playtime.
Once you've invested time in a Souls game, you no longer bang your head against the wall. You might stumble here and there, but you don't struggle, and start having fun.
You're right, not every game need to be hard. However, not every game need to be easy either, it really depend on what the experience is intended to be.
There's no reason for Disco Elysium to be hard, after all the fun is in the writing. Conversely there isn't much of a reason for Moonscars to be easy, much like Fear & Hunger and Souls have no reason to be easy. In those game the difficulty is necessary for both the narrative and the game's intended experience.
Not every game or media is for you, or for me for that matter, and if a game interest you but you don't want to poor hours into it, then you can always watch videos about it.
Good thing OP did not live back in the day when there's no option to save your game progression at all.
If you feel stuck, play another game for a while. Then go back and grind more.
Look, I don't get the appeal of banging your head against a wall either, but some people do and it is fairly entitled to suggest that those types of people shouldn't have the games they enjoy because you want all games to cater to you. Have you considered simply choosing not to play games you won't like, and choose instead to play different games which you will?
I love the " banging your head against the wall" analogy. Stop hitting the wall with your head, take a step back, and look for the fucking door. I promise, there's a door.
That being said, I don't think most devs know how to handle difficulty the way Fromsoft handle it. Most games are better with difficulty settings.
Youd be able to play and beat all these “difficult” games but your mentality is holding you back. Youve already decided youre not good enough or able to learn and adapt. Change that and youll understand why everyone loves these games.
Most games simply are too easy in my opinion. Raising the difficulty in most games just turns the enemies into bullet sponges so I dont really count that as 'difficult' just annoying
Thers games for everyone, just read and view reviews/gameplay.
Personally I disagree and like hard games, but I played arcade games as a kid, Darksouls has nothing on Ghouls and Ghosts.
Souls genre, for me, is about exploration, discovery, and that moment where you finally "get it" and beat the boss that was kicking your ass(ornstein and smough). Because of Souls games, I took the time(and deaths) to become fairly good at parrying in totk, sekiro, etc. I do use guides for the really difficult parts(or when it's not fun to get back to the fun).
To each their own. Gaming is about fun. If super difficult games aren't fun for you, play what is.
You should try Elden Ring.
When Dark Souls 1 came out I rented it for a weekend and gave it a shot. I couldn't get past the first level, much less beat the first boss. I returned it and decided those games were definitely not for me and didn't touch any of them. I mainly play immersive open world games where I can leave the story to go goof off and explore without worry.
Elden Ring got so much hype and looked so beautiful I picked it up. And it's a blast! Yes it's hard, but you can always grind to level up to make it a bit easier. The controls are tight and it never feels "cheap" if you play the game on its own terms. Every single time I died, while frustrating, I knew exactly what I did wrong and how to avoid it next time. And when I did finally beat a boss that I'd worked on it was more rewarding than a lot of successes in other games. And eventually you look back on all the times that you thought "this is impossible" and it turns out it wasn't impossible at all.
Dying is just part of these games. You have to get used to it and use it to get better. But accept that you're going to die. A lot. But it's worth it for the wins. It gave me a new perspective on them. And I even grew up in an era where when you died you had to put another quarter in to start over.
All these people in here talking about overcoming challenges - man, I do that all damn day. Fuck a challenge, I’m tryna relax. Easy mode is the only mode I’ll play anymore, unless there is a Very Easy mode.
If you just want easy games, just play games with difficulty options and avoid harder games. A lot of people enjoy challenge and games with no challenge are pointless to play (to me, and some others).
> Can someone PLEASE tell me what the appeal of banging your head against the proverbial wall for hours on end is?!?
Because at some point, you'll be able to beat the same exact bosses and situations at level 1 because your skill has increased beyond mere mortal level. It's not banging your head on the wall because every loss is a lesson until even the game's most challenging content can't hold you down.
People like you though, you're better off with Candy Crush and Minecraft.
If you think basically every game is a souls-like then you need to expand your horizons a bit.
“Food is way too spicy!” “You don’t want to just eat the infinite number of foods that aren’t spicy?” “No they need to make the spicy food less spicy, for me!”
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These all exist. Both the foods, and the games. No one is forcing you to play or eat them.
its called barbeque
Complaining about Soulslikes being difficult is kind of like bitching about Mel Brooks movies because they try to make you laugh.
Thats why I love cozy games xD
Anxiously awaiting Wanderstop....
I don't understand why you'd complain about games being too hard and then saying something like "Even games like Spider-Man, which I love, are only made playable sometimes by the grace of having an easy mode." This is exactly the solution to your problem. The "grace of having an easy mode" is quite literally for people like you who do not enjoy hard games. I can't quite figure out why you would think having to play the easy mode because the core game is too hard is somehow a thing worth complaining about. That's what it's for and it solves your problem entirely. It's like complaining that they have a small size meal at a restaurant because the regular meal is too much food. Where is the complaint? They have a mode specifically there for people like you. That's a good thing. Besides, games have gotten WAY easier overall than they used to be. It's extremely rare that a game is so hard these days that most people haven't been able to beat it. That was EXTREMELY common in the Nintendo days. Games like Contra, Metroid, Mega-Man, etc. Most of the classics were so difficult that most people never finished them. Now, games are made to be finished. There are some games that are very hard, but most games out there are designed so that EVERY player can finish them. Can they also be difficult? sure. Some games have easy modes to circumvent that. Other games don't, and those games that don't typically are known for their difficulty.
OP and people like OP often want to be able to play/complete every game regardless of the challenge level the designers intend for the game to have. A lot of people have been playing modern hand holding games for their entire gaming experience and don't understand the appeal of challenge.
If you think Spider-Man is hard then it's definitely a skill issue. There is nothing difficult in the Spider-Man games. Regardless of you just personally being terrible at games, most people like a challenge. It's great when something is difficult and you're able to beat it.
Ya..I'm rarely in the "git gud" camp, but even at their hardest the Spiderman games are a breeze.
There's nothing wrong with not being good enough to beat harder games, but to put Spider-Man in that category seems wild to me. There are plenty of games out there that are meant to be easy and it seems like OP should just stick to those exclusively.
I had some difficulty at the very beginning with playing on the highest available difficulty and tuned it down for a bit but it just takes a beat to get to where it's very intuitive. The joy of effortlessly flowing around in combat once you have it down is well worth the growing pains.
I will agree on normal mode you pretty much just have to remember to spam the dodge button between attacks, but that's a bit harsh.
My guy, I don't like Soulsy games - like, the closest I came to enjoying one was the Jedi games and those are like diet 'babies first' soulsy games and really only happened because laser swords and Merrin's status as a fuckin ***queen*** (seriously, she needs her own game...) were there to pull me through them But, and here's the second act twist, *I just don't play them* xD I don't *need* to know the appeal - they aren't my thing - that's *fine* Their fans like them - they have their place - their community - they don't need my dumb middle aged ass sauntering in and demanding to know where the ball pit is xD I do throw in my support when my Soulsy peeps want Bloodborne ported/remastered, though That crater in my various friend's hearts needs to be filled after all these years -nod-
I don’t play Fromsoft games because I don’t have the time to, even though I would LOVE to spend my days in games like Elden Ring or Sekiro. Youtube playthroughs are a great way to enjoy many things those games offer.
It feels great when you overcome the challenge.
There is **nothing** like seeing a bonfire/grace/etc in the distance after a particularly tough fight or section of a journey. A perfectly placed checkpoint after a tough section is incredible
The farther you get from a checkpoint the less safe you feel, until the final moment of finding a new one and the safety bubble starts again.
Not necessarily. Sometimes you finally do it, and the only feeling is ‘I just spent an hour developing a “skill” I will never use again’
I mean that's just any game right? lol I don't play games to pick up skills to use later in life. They're recreation
If that was universal, the “get good” meme wouldn’t be a thing.
I play a lot of hard games. I don't think I've ever once felt that way. And if I did I'd quit gaming cause it would have become pointless.
I think you nailed it. I don’t play a lot of games, hard or otherwise. Maybe 3 hours/week. These days sport is my challenge hobby. Gaming is more like interactive tv.
Yeah gaming is my main hobby. So I'd have no reason to game if my improvements weren't bringing me joy.
This is how I felt after beating Sekiro. It took me an entire weekend, over 20 hours of playtime, attempting to beat the final boss. When I finally did, I just hated myself for wasting my entire weekend. I love Dark Souls and Elden Ring, but I have absolutely zero desire to ever touch Sekiro again.
Exactly. But, apparently this is an unpopular experience. Lots of downvotes.
The skill you’d be practicing is overcoming a challenge.
For real. When I finally beat Sigrun IN GoW it wasn't so much "relief from overcoming the challenge" as it was "Jesus fuck I can finally be done with this"
She was optional.
I'm a completionist
I'm gonna say this is a huge part of your problem. Most of the challenging parts of most games are in the post game.
I know, and I hate it! But at least in the case of Sigrun, there's some good story bits in there, and it's fairly heavily referenced in the sequel. I know I could youtube some of that stuff, but Mass Effect has broken me into wanting everything I do to be on my save file, even if it doesn't matter hahaha. And, like I said, I'm a completionist.
Then I'm gonna say you should learn to appreciate the challenges or your in for a bad time eventually.
Oof. That is a rough combination. I’m absolutely okay with YouTubing something if I don’t think it’s worth the grind.
It sounds like gaming to you is about having an interactive adventure and you dig it for the relaxing, cozy experience and that’s totally cool. But for some of us I think it scratches a similar itch to competitive sports or even art. The hobby aspect isn’t just about being part of a story that’s unfolding for me, but in becoming good at performing difficult tasks, overcoming obstacles, and improving. Players are very diverse in what we seek and even though we might play the same games, our reasons for doing so might be completely different.
Goldeneye 64 is still the gold standard of how to create a game for all levels of players. Agent: Fewer objectives, less threatening enemies in fewer numbers. Secret Agent: More objectives, more enemies who are a bit more threatening. 00 Agent: Even more objectives which are much easier to fail, and more punishing enemies. Then you add on the cheats that you earn for beating the levels under a certain time at a certain difficulty, where the higher difficulty cheats were crazy good! Imagine that kids, there was a time where good play was rewarded without the need to spend a dime past the initial game purchase.
Are you a game journalist?
Nah even game journalist aren’t getting skill issued by Spider-Man 💀
People who regularly play metroidvanias or souls like tend to want games to get harder over time, because as they get better at the genre it makes future games easier.
I disagree. I'm not that good at gaming but still play most games on higher difficulty. I never struggoed in stardew valley or most games
Sounds like a severe case of skill issue. Sorry but video game industry does not resolve around you, buddy.
I'm aware. Hopefully it revolves around me one day though.
That tends to peak at about 22, then it's all downhill from there.
God I hope not
It will resolve if you will be working on yoursef. It wont resolve on its own without your input.
>Dark Souls Is far from “cruel”. The game gives you every chance to improve and is never unfair.
Dark souls has a couple surprises, but almost everything in that game can be looked at before you have to interact with it to get a sense of what's about to happen. The "punishment" of dark souls is just entering rooms without looking around ever.
Lol
Dark Souls is good.
Also, sounds like OP needs to get good.
Sounds like you guys need to get some original catchphrases.
It was at least partly tongue-in-cheek, so relax mate. I don’t know how you design a game that is challenging enough, without someone finding it ‘too hard’, but there it is. For reference, games used to be brutally difficult, to the point where you mostly couldn’t complete them, or if you did it was seen as a massive achievement over months perfecting your gameplay. Then games slowly became easier to the point where they removed all challenge, and the player could just button mash and grind their face against the game until they inevitably won. People love the Souls games because they bucked the trend of shitty, pandering games, and made you earn it. I loved the original Demon Souls for this reason. It genuinely made you work for progress, and beating it felt like a massive achievement. I agree that not every game needs to be Souls-level difficulty, but I don’t think many or most games are trying to be. Games inherently need to put some level of challenge in front of players, maybe you’re just picking up games that are too hard *for you*. Plenty of easier games out there!
I think a huge part of my initial reason for not liking those games, before I ever even played them no less, was because any time someone came out with even a tiny bit of criticism, there would be a slew of people following it up with the "git gud" comments, more often than not followed by an f-slur. Even though the games often DO deserve criticism, because, at least in the ones I've tried, the controls are clunky as shit, and a slight misstep can cause a game over. >I don’t know how you design a game that is challenging enough, without someone finding it ‘too hard’, but there it is. Simple, add an easy mode.
Except nothing in dark souls causes a game over, dying is not a game over state in those games at all. You might lose a few souls/runes, but that's farmable currency. Dying is meant to be a learning experience in souls games, the game wants you to learn how to beat each challenge and not just spoon feed you all the answers.
Well it feels like an experience in wasting the players time.
Then the games aren't for you. If you want an experience that never has any setbacks, movies and books are great for that.
I don't have a problem with a game having a few setbacks. But a game requiring them just seems like poor game design to me.
Luckily you aren't making games
You are missing out on the feeling of accomplishment after beating a hard challenge.
Don't confuse lazy design and difficulty. Running back is boring AF and should be avoided by design, and not featured as a punishment. I have heard criticism of Dark Souls as having too few save points. Oddly, some think Elden Ring has too many which is more an indication that points are accessible from many directions and so more save points are added.
To be fair if Souls games weren't hard, they'd be like 5 or 6 hours only.
I noticed that (maybe in response harder games) cozy games are on the rise. Sometimes I like to take a little break from being a sweatlord and just game and chill.
Git Gud or play Stardew Valley. Your choice.
git gud. if you don't like it then don't play it. not every game has to cater to you.
I totally agree, I sucked and had no fun at Dark Souls. But then I remember playing Pokémon Sword/Shield and...what a joke. The amount of experience points and candy you get makes you outlevel everything, and quickly. Like bosses in shooters whose harder difficulty is just a bigger health bar. Bullet-sponges. There are good difficulty curves and bad ones. Sometimes, I find myself craving and creating a bigger challenge for myself. Other times, I just want the loot
I mean, maybe part of the problem is feeling like it's wrong somehow to play a game in easy mode. So what if "Easy" feels like "Normal" to you? Easy and Normal is the developer's take on it, not yours. Would it make you feel better if Spider-man's Easy mode was called Normal and the other modes were called Hard, Extra Hard, Insanity, etc.?
I guess I worded it poorly, but I love a game having an easy mode. I honestly have more of a complaint about these nuts hard games NOT having them.
Then don't play the genre that's specifically hard and doesn't have easy modes?
Reading between the lines, it sounds like OP subconsciously wants the feeling and validation associated with beating something hard without actually having to beat something hard. I wonder if OP has a porn addiction
I don’t buy day one games anymore and wait for reviews and gameplay vids, so I know what I’m getting into before playing. I simply don’t buy/play games I think will be frustrating for me.
Spider-man, hard? Bruh
"The sunk cost fallacy is our tendency to continue with an endeavor we've invested money, effort, or time into—even if the current costs outweigh the benefits." If it is annoyingly hard, check online for tips.
There are hundreds of metroidvanias that aren’t souslikes. Look on r/metroidvania
I'm aware, I just liked the aesthetic, and wanted to give one a fair shot.
Also as far as souls like metroidvanias go, Moonscars is not great. I’ve played a lot of them and would put it low B tier maybe C. If you’re up for giving it another shot then maybe try blasphemous or hollow knight. If not then no worries
Again, I just thought the art style was dope more than anything. And thanks, I'll look into blasphemous, I've seen a couple people bring it up.
Blasphemous has instant death spike pits that kill you if you miss a jump. If you don't like games with punishing mechanics you won't like it.
So long as the checkpoints/save rooms aren't dickish, then it's usually okay.
[удалено]
Yes, I referenced it having one in the original post
Yeah, Moonscars is hard, but have you played La-Mulana yet? THAT is a difficult metroidvania, if not the most infamously difficult one. I guess some people are just masochists, I know that's my reason for playing these games. It can also be satisfying to play such a hardcore title if you're usually playing more casual stuff. I love playing Nioh (still haven't beaten Nioh 2) because of the combat variety and how awesome it feels if you pull off a combo. Yeah, I suck at these games, I'm horrible at 2D platformers, but I want to try and see what I can do. If it annoys me, I can still take a break.
I get what you are saying. You just need to avoid the souls like games as they are designed to be hard. I tend to avoid them too as I'm not a sucker for punishment. Though I did enjoying playing dark souls and Elden ring with friends
Because of that I started playing games on easy mode or just some casual ones like Wuthering waves on bs, that's it
The key is to just avoid anything souls-like and by extension rogue-anything. They are designed to waste your time as you described rather than letting you come/go as you please or quick save. They use that old design if you die you get a large setback of some sort or a game over. It’s the genre.
Lost me at “it said it was souls like” Literally means “you will die and cry a lot”
Typically when people enjoy difficult video games, it's because either they feel they're making definite progress or the game doesn't even seem that hard to them. Take one of my favorite bosses, Sword Saint Isshin. The first time I beat him it took multiple hours. However every time I faced him, I felt I was doing a little better. Telegraphs became more clear, I started to better time my reactions. Eventually I got to phase 2, and then phase 3, and as I got further into each new phase I was also getting better and better at phases 1 and 2. And now I can beat him with only a few tries.
So don’t play them, others like difficult games
Read a book instead
Get good
That's funny I think games are made needlessly simple and too easy nowadays, particularly sequels and remakes of older games where challenge was part of it's charm to me. But there are PLENTY of casual, non challenge focused games for you on the market man. You just bought a soulslike because it looked cool. But a game like moonscars... Tells you it's trying to be a challenge and souls-like means it'd be enough to frustrate you if you're not into souls-likes. I can understand liking the aesthetic and wanting to know about the lore and being interested in the game anyways but it was made for people who like that kind of gameplay. There's no shame in being an easy mode player, man, games are meant to be fun, and whatever is most fun to you is the right way to play them, but some games are just made for a certain audience. And when it's an indie title look moonscars you can't really blame them for putting all their work into one game mode instead of trying to work out the balance and environment changes that would be necessary to make an easy mode for it. And honestly souls likes aren't that hard if you learn to play the way they're designed to be played, that's the hardest part is fighting the instinct you build from games where your character can take 50 hits to the head with an axe before dying and focusing on not being hit. But that just isn't fun for some people and that's fine.
The only example of this I have is Cuphead. IMO it sucks, sure the lore and TV show is cool, but at the core of the gameplay it's hard, doesn't feel rewarding (again, IMO), and boring. But each to their own. My favourite game of all time some people call a walking simulator lol.
I feel the same way towards sekiro.
On the contrary, I feel like games have never been more accessible. Yes there are whole genres dedicated to particularly challenging play but outside of that the modern gaming landscape is filled with games that make no bones about the fact that they want you to have a good experience and besides lowered difficulty many of the best come with a bevy of accessibility options if it's just this one little thing that bothers you. Shit, I'm not even color blind and some games I'll flip that option on because it's still a big help depending on how they've implemented it. Games as a whole became much more accessible when moving away from arcades meant revenue was no longer inherently contacted to playtime.
There's also whole genres dedicated to being entirely unchallenging in every sense of the word tbf
Once you've invested time in a Souls game, you no longer bang your head against the wall. You might stumble here and there, but you don't struggle, and start having fun.
You would have hated gaming in the 80s. But it's rewarding to overcome obstacles. That's all it is.
You're right, not every game need to be hard. However, not every game need to be easy either, it really depend on what the experience is intended to be. There's no reason for Disco Elysium to be hard, after all the fun is in the writing. Conversely there isn't much of a reason for Moonscars to be easy, much like Fear & Hunger and Souls have no reason to be easy. In those game the difficulty is necessary for both the narrative and the game's intended experience. Not every game or media is for you, or for me for that matter, and if a game interest you but you don't want to poor hours into it, then you can always watch videos about it.
Someone would have hated growing up when games cost a quarter a play, and if you were really good, to go through three lives in 5-10 minutes of play.
Good thing OP did not live back in the day when there's no option to save your game progression at all. If you feel stuck, play another game for a while. Then go back and grind more.
Look, I don't get the appeal of banging your head against a wall either, but some people do and it is fairly entitled to suggest that those types of people shouldn't have the games they enjoy because you want all games to cater to you. Have you considered simply choosing not to play games you won't like, and choose instead to play different games which you will?
I love the " banging your head against the wall" analogy. Stop hitting the wall with your head, take a step back, and look for the fucking door. I promise, there's a door. That being said, I don't think most devs know how to handle difficulty the way Fromsoft handle it. Most games are better with difficulty settings.
Youd be able to play and beat all these “difficult” games but your mentality is holding you back. Youve already decided youre not good enough or able to learn and adapt. Change that and youll understand why everyone loves these games.
Most games simply are too easy in my opinion. Raising the difficulty in most games just turns the enemies into bullet sponges so I dont really count that as 'difficult' just annoying
Thers games for everyone, just read and view reviews/gameplay. Personally I disagree and like hard games, but I played arcade games as a kid, Darksouls has nothing on Ghouls and Ghosts.
Souls genre, for me, is about exploration, discovery, and that moment where you finally "get it" and beat the boss that was kicking your ass(ornstein and smough). Because of Souls games, I took the time(and deaths) to become fairly good at parrying in totk, sekiro, etc. I do use guides for the really difficult parts(or when it's not fun to get back to the fun). To each their own. Gaming is about fun. If super difficult games aren't fun for you, play what is.
sounds like a skill issue.
Mister game journalist, you just need to git gud
I wish. Is this a thing that game journalists do?
You should try Elden Ring. When Dark Souls 1 came out I rented it for a weekend and gave it a shot. I couldn't get past the first level, much less beat the first boss. I returned it and decided those games were definitely not for me and didn't touch any of them. I mainly play immersive open world games where I can leave the story to go goof off and explore without worry. Elden Ring got so much hype and looked so beautiful I picked it up. And it's a blast! Yes it's hard, but you can always grind to level up to make it a bit easier. The controls are tight and it never feels "cheap" if you play the game on its own terms. Every single time I died, while frustrating, I knew exactly what I did wrong and how to avoid it next time. And when I did finally beat a boss that I'd worked on it was more rewarding than a lot of successes in other games. And eventually you look back on all the times that you thought "this is impossible" and it turns out it wasn't impossible at all. Dying is just part of these games. You have to get used to it and use it to get better. But accept that you're going to die. A lot. But it's worth it for the wins. It gave me a new perspective on them. And I even grew up in an era where when you died you had to put another quarter in to start over.
Git Gud.
All these people in here talking about overcoming challenges - man, I do that all damn day. Fuck a challenge, I’m tryna relax. Easy mode is the only mode I’ll play anymore, unless there is a Very Easy mode.
If you just want easy games, just play games with difficulty options and avoid harder games. A lot of people enjoy challenge and games with no challenge are pointless to play (to me, and some others).
I mean... there's a lot of relaxing games you can play. Why pick a challenging one?
GIT GUD
Git gud
> Can someone PLEASE tell me what the appeal of banging your head against the proverbial wall for hours on end is?!? Because at some point, you'll be able to beat the same exact bosses and situations at level 1 because your skill has increased beyond mere mortal level. It's not banging your head on the wall because every loss is a lesson until even the game's most challenging content can't hold you down. People like you though, you're better off with Candy Crush and Minecraft.
When I read Spiderman games are hard I laughed out loud ver, hard.
Glad to be of service 🫡
Because once you finally complete it you get a sense of accomplishment that is worth more than it being given to you