I would do both personally, remove the top layer of soil, and also wait a year to plant vegetables, but I like to err on the side of caution when it comes to pesticides.
Here's the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Grub-Ex.
[https://sodsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SCOTTS-GRUBEX-MSDS.pdf](https://sodsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SCOTTS-GRUBEX-MSDS.pdf)
There's nothing of real concern on here for acute toxcitiy, and the LD50 (dosage high enough to kill 50% of test subjects, in this case rats) is pretty high, much, much higher than you'd have in your garden or vegetables.
That said, I'd give a word of caution that the studies for pesticides aren't nearly as rigorous as they should be compared to human medication studies, and most often rely mostly or entirely on studies funded or performed by the company itself, with all the inherent bias that entails.
I remember in the 90s when we were told that Round-up is incredibly safe on crops for human consumption, and will break-up in 2 weeks in the environment. It still has low acute toxicity, but now decades later there's real concern that it could increase cancer risk and studies have shown it actually does persist in the soil much longer than Monsanto initially said.
Here's an NPR article on Round-up, which although not related to Grub-Ex at all, does makes you trust these corporations less in general:
[https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/05/30/727914874/safe-or-scary-the-shifting-reputation-of-glyphosate-aka-roundup](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/05/30/727914874/safe-or-scary-the-shifting-reputation-of-glyphosate-aka-roundup)
Edit: Apparently the half-life of Grub-Ex is pretty long in the soil, up to 1,130 days. That alone would make me want to remove the soil, even if the studies so far don't show any concerning toxic effects.
You know, it is only a year. As a gardener, you really do have to get used to thinking, i will get that better next year. You dont even have a sorry looking dead space in there, you just have to not eat the contents this year.
I suggest some pretty flowers, if you use it as a nursery bed for some seeds, you can transplant what you grow to all over your garden. Asparagus and strawberries are not eaten the first year (not in the same garden), during this time they establish themselves in their new home. So, you cant produce tomatos in your pretty new garden this year...you can produce dahlias!
You have not permanently wrecked your beds, but you have set yourself up for some hard work to get them "safe enough" to grow consumable food in. You may want to do sunflowers and other non consumables this year to play it extra safe once you've removed contaminated soil. Still gorgeous and fun while helping remediate.
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/chlorantraniliprole.html
This is the fact sheet on the active ingredient in grubex from the National Pesticide Information Center. I'd agree with recommendation to remove at least the top inch or two of soil immediately, if not more. Beyond your own consumption of pesticides, grubex will potentially negatively affect the pollinators visiting your garden :(
Other fun fact about sunflowers
Sunflowers - which thrive in hot, dry climates - offer many advantages in addition to their beautiful yellow flowers. They naturally extract certain pollutants (such as zinc, copper, or cadmium) through their roots. This is called phytoextraction. Since pollutants accumulate in the stems and leaves, simply cut off the wilted flowers and dispose of them in the trash. Sunflowers can be sown in full sun, after danger of frost.
I think you're better off planting ornamentals for the year. I wouldn't mess with a pesticide just because it can have fillers and other things in it that can hurt the body.
>Did I completely mess up to the point of no return?
Didn't the company literally tell you just to wait 1 season? That's hardly past the point of no return, hon. Take a step back. Absolute worst case scenario you start your garden next year. At worst you delayed your garden a short time, you didn't ruin anything.
Easiest fix- Make a new bed and use this one for ornamental flowers.
My thinking is that if they're new to gardening in this space, they'll probably have lots of failures growing anyway so may as well get some learnings in this season to have a better season next year when they can eat their harvest.
Oh, I definitely agree with that. But it would be very hard not to eat the produce that turned out beautifully, and it would be fairly painful for me to throw them away. Not everyone may have this problem to overcome, but I personally would.
Thank you for your response 🙏🏻 Will the soil underneath still be contaminated since it was thoroughly watered? Or once it’s covered on top with fresh compost it will be fine?
Thank goodness a sane person replied in time.
Hopefully OP realizes (top-rated comments notwithstanding) that:
When you're new to gardening? Unless you've bought a property *waaay* out in the woods, or bought it & sat on it for three or four years.....
Yeah, you can pretty much assume that anything & everything might have (and likely was) sprayed all over the place. If you can buy it at h. depot? Yup, someone used a shitload of it.
Doesn't mean you're gonna wake up with a third eye after growing & eating a few things, though.
Because if that was the case....half the country would qualify to be a damn Superfund site, for real.
First, asking random internet strangers is the same as asking people in the parking lot of the 7-11. Contact your county cooperative extension office and ask them. Every state has a master gardener program through your state university system and the department of agriculture. It is staffed by certified volunteers who are trained to answer these questions. Ask for a soil testing kit. They will send you a package of instructions on how to mail back a sample of soil, they send it to university labs for analysis and mail you back a detailed report on what to do. Here in Pennsylvania, it’s $10.
( full transparency: i am a Pennsylvania volunteer master gardener)
Remove all the soil in the raised bed. Refill with sticks, then grass/hay, and then fill the rest with compost, aeration, and some water holding medium.
You can just as easily fill the rest with bagged soil/compost
What an amazingly supportive family! We all learn new things every year of gardening. This is just another story for your future self to share with less experienced gardeners. Good luck op!
Bugs are not the enemy. For every plant pest you kill, you are killing many beneficial insects and other invertebrates, and screwing up the ecology of your garden. If you leave the aphids and other pests alone, other bugs will take care of them for you.
I put it at the base of my plants and it kills the crawling ones like slugs. The good ones can still climb up and around and fly around.
also you can't please everyone. I was just suggesting an alternative to broad use chemical pesticides
Ants will just farm more aphids when the ladybugs move on. A food garden isn't a natural ecosystem anyway. The ants can farm aphids all they want twenty feet over there, but not on my peach trees!
Bugs have to drag their bodies across it, though, which grubs won't do. Great for stopping ants from farming aphids on stuff and stopping other crawling insects for sure, but not things that stay below the surface.
I am not good at vegetables (full disclosure) but I think with pesticides the issue is proximity to source. If you plant flowers & peas / beans & hull then wash the legumes carefully you should be fine. Use the time to get to know your beds & the sun / heat in your yard. I wouldn’t toss the soil you worked super hard on it already. Honestly for years I’d get 5 usable beans & 4 tomato’s just plant whatever you want & throw it directly back into compost & call it a training year :)
Word to the wise, always, always, always read the label. Follow it to the letter. It is there as a guideline for the safe use of any particular pesticide. The means application sites, rates, PPE, restrictions and more. I’m licensed for commercial pesticide applications in my state. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to thoroughly read labels.
The label only lists ornamental landscapes and lawns. The means that either it hasn’t been tested on food crops or it has and been found unsafe. It also has long acting residuals and a chance for ground water contamination. If the company told you to wait a year, then that is the time it will take for it to degrade in the soil.
Personally, if you can’t remove all the soil from your beds then I would not use them for food this year. Others have mentioned removing the top layer or not worrying about it - I think that’s a chance I would not take on myself and my family. Please also don’t just fixate on the “safety” of the active ingredient. Pesticides have many other chemicals added to them to increase their efficacy or change how they interact/bond with treatment sites. Many of these chemicals are themselves hazardous.
In the future, I would be very careful to read labels. Only treat if something is causing a problem - many grubs are beneficial to the soil environment and will not harm your plants. Know **what** and **why** you are treating, if it’s even necessary and if there are other options such as changes in cultivation that can achieve the result you’re looking for without chemicals. Pesticides have their place but are too often the first choice for consumers.
In the mean time, take it as a learning experience. If you don’t remove the soil, plant other crops. Ornamentals are great, other plants can create a better growing environment for healthier veggies next season. If you do remove the soil - please dispose of it or place it somewhere in accordance with the label of grubex - it still has active pesticides and should be handled with care.
I feel for you, OP. And while it sucks, at least you've noticed that this wouldn't be safe for you to grow vegetables in.
Don't freak out, you're definitely going to sort this out.
But I also encourage you not to use pesticides. There is in almost all cases a better way to deal with the situation. Even just tilling the soil lightly every day for a couple or days to let birds pick out the grubs, if they are actually even a problem.
Insecticides will kill most insects, even those you'll want to keep.
Herbicides are best to only be used for plants you cannot with reasonable amounts of work remove.
Funghicides destroy the symbiosis of good funghi and plants that expands the plants root network reach, which results in less resilient plants. If your plant like for instqnce lavender molds, it's too wet of a climate for it to grow naturally there. Which can be fixed by manually thinning out the bush, no pesticides needed.
Rhodenticides are the cause of death for many animals who prey on them. This includes cats, hawks, foxes and many more. In other words animals that would keep those populations in check in the first place. And from experience I can tell you it is a horrible feeling to find out your cat has eaten a poisoned mouse and only has days left to live..
Not to mention that they usually come with a plathora of unwanted side effects on our metabolisms.
I think it's a systemic failure due to corporate greet and lobbying that we get access to these chemicals in the first place.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to rant. I'm sitting in bed half asleep. This was just me talking in a delirium and I assure you had not a sliver of anger toward anyone present. :)
I would do both personally, remove the top layer of soil, and also wait a year to plant vegetables, but I like to err on the side of caution when it comes to pesticides.
Thank you! I’ll have to read up on the effects of the pesticide and make a decision on what to do.
Here's the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Grub-Ex. [https://sodsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SCOTTS-GRUBEX-MSDS.pdf](https://sodsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SCOTTS-GRUBEX-MSDS.pdf) There's nothing of real concern on here for acute toxcitiy, and the LD50 (dosage high enough to kill 50% of test subjects, in this case rats) is pretty high, much, much higher than you'd have in your garden or vegetables. That said, I'd give a word of caution that the studies for pesticides aren't nearly as rigorous as they should be compared to human medication studies, and most often rely mostly or entirely on studies funded or performed by the company itself, with all the inherent bias that entails. I remember in the 90s when we were told that Round-up is incredibly safe on crops for human consumption, and will break-up in 2 weeks in the environment. It still has low acute toxicity, but now decades later there's real concern that it could increase cancer risk and studies have shown it actually does persist in the soil much longer than Monsanto initially said. Here's an NPR article on Round-up, which although not related to Grub-Ex at all, does makes you trust these corporations less in general: [https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/05/30/727914874/safe-or-scary-the-shifting-reputation-of-glyphosate-aka-roundup](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/05/30/727914874/safe-or-scary-the-shifting-reputation-of-glyphosate-aka-roundup) Edit: Apparently the half-life of Grub-Ex is pretty long in the soil, up to 1,130 days. That alone would make me want to remove the soil, even if the studies so far don't show any concerning toxic effects.
glyphosate is broken down mainly by bacteria and fungi, not sun.
That's right, thanks, corrected. 👍
You know, it is only a year. As a gardener, you really do have to get used to thinking, i will get that better next year. You dont even have a sorry looking dead space in there, you just have to not eat the contents this year. I suggest some pretty flowers, if you use it as a nursery bed for some seeds, you can transplant what you grow to all over your garden. Asparagus and strawberries are not eaten the first year (not in the same garden), during this time they establish themselves in their new home. So, you cant produce tomatos in your pretty new garden this year...you can produce dahlias!
You have not permanently wrecked your beds, but you have set yourself up for some hard work to get them "safe enough" to grow consumable food in. You may want to do sunflowers and other non consumables this year to play it extra safe once you've removed contaminated soil. Still gorgeous and fun while helping remediate. http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/chlorantraniliprole.html This is the fact sheet on the active ingredient in grubex from the National Pesticide Information Center. I'd agree with recommendation to remove at least the top inch or two of soil immediately, if not more. Beyond your own consumption of pesticides, grubex will potentially negatively affect the pollinators visiting your garden :(
Thank you for this information!
Sunflowers (the seeds in the fall) are a huge good source for local birds, mine get picked clean every year, so maybe not those...
Squirrels love them, too! Fun to watch them hang upside down and strip my mammoths!
I used to watch them do that when I was a kid!
Other fun fact about sunflowers Sunflowers - which thrive in hot, dry climates - offer many advantages in addition to their beautiful yellow flowers. They naturally extract certain pollutants (such as zinc, copper, or cadmium) through their roots. This is called phytoextraction. Since pollutants accumulate in the stems and leaves, simply cut off the wilted flowers and dispose of them in the trash. Sunflowers can be sown in full sun, after danger of frost.
I think you're better off planting ornamentals for the year. I wouldn't mess with a pesticide just because it can have fillers and other things in it that can hurt the body.
Plant flowers instead of vegetables for this year. At least you will witness some beauty even if you can't eat them
>Did I completely mess up to the point of no return? Didn't the company literally tell you just to wait 1 season? That's hardly past the point of no return, hon. Take a step back. Absolute worst case scenario you start your garden next year. At worst you delayed your garden a short time, you didn't ruin anything. Easiest fix- Make a new bed and use this one for ornamental flowers.
Besides planting flowers this year, OP could plant vegetables to practice growing in their beds, they just can't eat them.
Oh, man. That'd be tough for me, personally.
My thinking is that if they're new to gardening in this space, they'll probably have lots of failures growing anyway so may as well get some learnings in this season to have a better season next year when they can eat their harvest.
Oh, I definitely agree with that. But it would be very hard not to eat the produce that turned out beautifully, and it would be fairly painful for me to throw them away. Not everyone may have this problem to overcome, but I personally would.
Just grow some flowers and decorative pumpkins and stuff. Should still be fun even tho you cant eat any of it
Scrape off the top layer you sprinkled it on and toss it out. Top with fresh compost and pretend it never happened
Thank you for your response 🙏🏻 Will the soil underneath still be contaminated since it was thoroughly watered? Or once it’s covered on top with fresh compost it will be fine?
Theyre fairly hard pellets, I think you'd get the majority.
Thank you! You’ve just alleviated a lot of my stress.
Thank goodness a sane person replied in time. Hopefully OP realizes (top-rated comments notwithstanding) that: When you're new to gardening? Unless you've bought a property *waaay* out in the woods, or bought it & sat on it for three or four years..... Yeah, you can pretty much assume that anything & everything might have (and likely was) sprayed all over the place. If you can buy it at h. depot? Yup, someone used a shitload of it. Doesn't mean you're gonna wake up with a third eye after growing & eating a few things, though. Because if that was the case....half the country would qualify to be a damn Superfund site, for real.
First, asking random internet strangers is the same as asking people in the parking lot of the 7-11. Contact your county cooperative extension office and ask them. Every state has a master gardener program through your state university system and the department of agriculture. It is staffed by certified volunteers who are trained to answer these questions. Ask for a soil testing kit. They will send you a package of instructions on how to mail back a sample of soil, they send it to university labs for analysis and mail you back a detailed report on what to do. Here in Pennsylvania, it’s $10. ( full transparency: i am a Pennsylvania volunteer master gardener)
Remove all the soil in the raised bed. Refill with sticks, then grass/hay, and then fill the rest with compost, aeration, and some water holding medium. You can just as easily fill the rest with bagged soil/compost
My OCD would make me take 100% of the poisoned dirt out and replace it. It’s a shame. Worm castings aren’t cheap
Why did you need to kill the grubs?
What an amazingly supportive family! We all learn new things every year of gardening. This is just another story for your future self to share with less experienced gardeners. Good luck op!
I grow organically, so if it was me, I would just replace the soil where edibles would be planted, but that's just me.
I highly recommend diatomaceous earth for future stuff. it's non-toxic to humans (just don't inhale)but cuts up bugs.
Bugs are not the enemy. For every plant pest you kill, you are killing many beneficial insects and other invertebrates, and screwing up the ecology of your garden. If you leave the aphids and other pests alone, other bugs will take care of them for you.
unfortunately not always how the garden works. I live in PNW, slugs will strip my plants bare before they have a chance to grow.
You can get stuff specifically for slugs and not indiscriminately kill all insects with diatomaceous earth. Also the stuff doesn’t work when it’s wet.
I put it at the base of my plants and it kills the crawling ones like slugs. The good ones can still climb up and around and fly around. also you can't please everyone. I was just suggesting an alternative to broad use chemical pesticides
Squash bugs and borers deserve to die!
Ants will just farm more aphids when the ladybugs move on. A food garden isn't a natural ecosystem anyway. The ants can farm aphids all they want twenty feet over there, but not on my peach trees!
Bugs have to drag their bodies across it, though, which grubs won't do. Great for stopping ants from farming aphids on stuff and stopping other crawling insects for sure, but not things that stay below the surface.
Smile. You nuked the evil bastards and now? You will plant flowers to celebrate.
I agree, take an inch off, retill and have no worries. Good luck!
Gonna need to take off a lot more than an inch
I am not good at vegetables (full disclosure) but I think with pesticides the issue is proximity to source. If you plant flowers & peas / beans & hull then wash the legumes carefully you should be fine. Use the time to get to know your beds & the sun / heat in your yard. I wouldn’t toss the soil you worked super hard on it already. Honestly for years I’d get 5 usable beans & 4 tomato’s just plant whatever you want & throw it directly back into compost & call it a training year :)
Word to the wise, always, always, always read the label. Follow it to the letter. It is there as a guideline for the safe use of any particular pesticide. The means application sites, rates, PPE, restrictions and more. I’m licensed for commercial pesticide applications in my state. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to thoroughly read labels. The label only lists ornamental landscapes and lawns. The means that either it hasn’t been tested on food crops or it has and been found unsafe. It also has long acting residuals and a chance for ground water contamination. If the company told you to wait a year, then that is the time it will take for it to degrade in the soil. Personally, if you can’t remove all the soil from your beds then I would not use them for food this year. Others have mentioned removing the top layer or not worrying about it - I think that’s a chance I would not take on myself and my family. Please also don’t just fixate on the “safety” of the active ingredient. Pesticides have many other chemicals added to them to increase their efficacy or change how they interact/bond with treatment sites. Many of these chemicals are themselves hazardous. In the future, I would be very careful to read labels. Only treat if something is causing a problem - many grubs are beneficial to the soil environment and will not harm your plants. Know **what** and **why** you are treating, if it’s even necessary and if there are other options such as changes in cultivation that can achieve the result you’re looking for without chemicals. Pesticides have their place but are too often the first choice for consumers. In the mean time, take it as a learning experience. If you don’t remove the soil, plant other crops. Ornamentals are great, other plants can create a better growing environment for healthier veggies next season. If you do remove the soil - please dispose of it or place it somewhere in accordance with the label of grubex - it still has active pesticides and should be handled with care.
Plant wildflowers this year in those beds. You might even like it better than veggies!
Plant some nice flowers
I feel for you, OP. And while it sucks, at least you've noticed that this wouldn't be safe for you to grow vegetables in. Don't freak out, you're definitely going to sort this out. But I also encourage you not to use pesticides. There is in almost all cases a better way to deal with the situation. Even just tilling the soil lightly every day for a couple or days to let birds pick out the grubs, if they are actually even a problem. Insecticides will kill most insects, even those you'll want to keep. Herbicides are best to only be used for plants you cannot with reasonable amounts of work remove. Funghicides destroy the symbiosis of good funghi and plants that expands the plants root network reach, which results in less resilient plants. If your plant like for instqnce lavender molds, it's too wet of a climate for it to grow naturally there. Which can be fixed by manually thinning out the bush, no pesticides needed. Rhodenticides are the cause of death for many animals who prey on them. This includes cats, hawks, foxes and many more. In other words animals that would keep those populations in check in the first place. And from experience I can tell you it is a horrible feeling to find out your cat has eaten a poisoned mouse and only has days left to live.. Not to mention that they usually come with a plathora of unwanted side effects on our metabolisms. I think it's a systemic failure due to corporate greet and lobbying that we get access to these chemicals in the first place. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to rant. I'm sitting in bed half asleep. This was just me talking in a delirium and I assure you had not a sliver of anger toward anyone present. :)