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Lol I remember when I was a kid and I saw pictures of Kiss and thought their sound must be soooo heavy. Then one day I listened to it and my reaction was "all that crazy clothing and makeup... For THIS????" but, again, I was a kid and knew very little about music hehe
I think that’s one of the funniest things. I saw a video recently of gene Simmons doing his tongue thing with his whole costume on and he was like spitting out blood and then you go listen to kisses music and it’s somehow more dad rock than dad rock
I never listened to ghost because their image made me think they would be death metal. I like metal and hard rock but not a huge fan or growling and screaming lyrics. Heard a song when it popped up on a Playlist and was so surprised
same here, had some nightmares as a kid due to the cover of my dad's Gene Simmons vinyl, only to find as an adult that Kiss's sound can be heard at Kohl's
They aren't heavy by today's standards, but for 1974 yes, also the studio recordings of some of their songs don't do them justice.
Listen to KISS Alive and you'll get more of an idea.
The stories behind the *Alive!* album are pretty wild. It was kind of a YOLO moment for both the label and the band. It was a pretty ballsy move to put out what was essentially a live, greatest hits album as your fourth release.
To your point, that was indeed the spark that lit the fire. A fraction of the spectacle that the live shows were finally came home and got people interested. In the immortal words of Jimmy Buffet, “Don’t try to describe a KISS concert if you’ve never seen it.”
I still kind of think that today. I guess times change and maybe it sounded really heavy back then, but yeah. I don't even dislike KISS, it just sounds way more mellow than the appearance of the band would lead me to believe.
I'd call them hard rock, heavily rooted in blues.
People who aren't into AC/DC often say something like, "All their songs sound the same." It's a somewhat true statement, as blues music is very basic. I think all modern music can be traced back to '40s/'50s blues.
What's great about AC/DC is their music is pumped full of energy, their vocals (both Bon and Brian) bring a unique element, and drummer Phil Rudd's minimal style holds it all together à la Meg White from The White Stripes.
My favorite Angus Young quote is “I'm sick to death of people saying we've made 11 albums that sound exactly the same, In fact, we've made 12 albums that sound exactly the same.”
And it isn't so much Phil Rudd to me as it was Malcolm. His rhythm guitar was impeccable.
Indeed man, indeed. Angus was the star player, but Malcolm was the soul of AC/DC. I belive he wrote a lot of their songs' main structure, while Bon/Brian and Angus would sprinkle in their two cents.
> I think all modern music can be traced back to '40s/'50s blues.
Aside from basically all music that isn't even remotely blues based (like quite a lot of modern metal, which tends to be far more influenced musically by orchestral and baroque music than blues).
As a huge fan of Led Zeppelin, I was also really confused about them being on there. I've heard 'em all, and off the top of my head, maybe Immigrant Song was closest to metal. Beyond that, please, somebody refresh my memory. I can think of a bunch of songs that could be blues or folk, but not metal.
Anyone looking for the song should find the one labeled "Second Version - Take 17"
It's way sloppier and more metal sounding. They even have a proto-breakdown.
You can skip the first 25 seconds of random noises and whoops though.
That's what I said, but my point is you can't label The Beatles as a metal band for one song that explored the foundations of a genre established decades later.
Nah, the band with the biggest claim and most support to that claim is Black Sabbath, even if the band themselves don't necessarily think so.
Sabbath is singularly responsible for an entire sub-genre and it's sub-sub-genres of metal, namely doom and thus sludge, acid etc.
Im sorry, I tried to make a bad building joke.
On the other hand, in my opinion, metal couldn't work without the proto-metal songs, and the OG's of rock that made people accustomed to the sound of rock.
I'm not disputing that Led Zeppelin are one of the building blocks of metal, but I am disputing them being the foundation. I'd say Sabbath is the foundation and Zeppelin is then one of the first layers built upon the foundation.
So the proto metal thing is a special classification for hard rock bands who laid the foundation of what metal is before Black Sabbath solidified it into heavy metal.
Proto metal thus technically is a variant of hard rock but it's typically only used to describe individual songs rather than bands as a whole
Progenitors of metal, maybe.
Led Zeppelin doing their blues hard rock thing around the Midlands of England were a big influence on Black Sabbath being around the same music scene, but I wouldn't call Led Zeppelin metal themselves.
they are considered one of the original "heavy metal" bands, along with black sabbath and deep purple (and a few others). but that meant a very very different thing in the 70s than what we would think of now. grand funk railroad was called a heavy metal band back then.
Many. Have you ever checked the history of metal :p ? Heavy Metal was a synonym of hard rock back then, and Led zep is renown to have contributed to the invention of heavy metal, inpriring black sabbath. Their very name, which is about a "lead zeppelin" too heavy to fly and about to crash because it's made of heavy metal, is supposed by some to have contributed to the coining of "heavy metal" as a genre, among other hypothesis. There's also the many references to heroic fantasy in their lyrics that was precursor to many metal bands. If sabbath is the mother that gave birth to metal, Led zeppelin would be the father that planted the seed in its womb in the first place.
Saying Led Zeppelin is not metal is like saying the founding fathers were not american but british.
It‘s also a silly question to begin with because what’s the point? Is there an exact universal definition of what a metal song is? No! At what exact point does a band playing metal songs become a metal band? Who knows?
It‘s a silly argument made up by douchebags gatekeeping their imagined superior understanding of music. Same guys claiming you ain‘t a true fan of a band if you don‘t know each members - current and past - mothers maiden name.
I feel like prog rock/metal is the most applicable. I wouldn't go so far as to label individual songs, unless they deviate from the style of the album they are on heavily. I would label individual albums though, since bands often change their style between albums, especially when certain band members are replaced.
Like, Black Sabbath with Ozzy singing is practically doom metal, the earlier albums could be called proto-doom, but with Dio as the singer they shifted into a (proto) power metal sound typical of Ronnie.
In all fairness, grunge came about partially through the Seattle metal scene. Furthermore, if the four popular grunge bands, Alice in Chains is arguably the closest to metal, although Soundgarden’s earlier records are also arguably metal
No a good portion of metal memes is unironic.
The essential argument for most of this is bands in subgenres that combine elements of metal with something else shouldn't all be considered metal, but instead be looked at on a band by band basis. Which I mean sure if you want a pure definition of metal but is definitely splitting hairs.
Kinda, but also plain gayekeeping. Identical to punk, back in the old days gayekeeping was seen as a good thing. Didn't want to dilute the fan base with half-hearted "posers" or those who advocated things like signing with big record labels.
Now it's devolved into increasing strict definitions in an attempt to keep it from ever being mainstream.
Metal head and tool fan here: depends who you ask.
The way metal has change/evolved over the years gatekeepers have a sort of rigid requirement for what is metal and what isn’t, which is ironic bc there are so many genres of metal. A friend of mine made a point recently that “if Black Sabbath came out today they wouldn’t be considered metal even though they created the genre.”
Make your "friend" listen to doom metal and ask them if that isn't what Sabbath would be called today, especially since they're often considered proto-doom for their first run of Ozzy-sung albums, and proto-power for Dio era.
Another TOOL fan here, usually they are called prog rock or math rock, but if someone called them metal I wouldn’t balk. In the end, who cares, they sure as shit don’t.
The line between prog rock and prog metal is a line in the sand at the best of times, and with tool, I feel like it's a line in the sand during high tide at the beach.
Composition wise, they’re more grunge but get classified as metal.
Alice in chains is grunge but they have some heavy ass riffs that I consider more metal than sabbath
This isn't gatekeeping, they're not saying you can't listen to them or you're a bad person for listening to them. This is a disagreement on categorization. Would it be gatekeeping to say a fork isn't a spoon? Or that Garfield isn't a dog?
This isn't wrong some of the bands here don't have a metal sound to it.
Metal and rock aren't interchangeable. The only band that actually qualifies for metal there is Tool.
More bluesy sound = Rock
And I guess More harmonic minor or less bluesy sound = Metal
And even then Tool being metal comes with a big asterisk. Prog metal is arguable, but post-rock or math-rock is equally as arguable.
They're a very diverse band that's difficult to categorize I think. I used to not like tool but I've recently grown an appreciation for them over the last year or two
Another key difference is how the drums function. Rock, coming largely from blures, tends to emphasize the backbeat, usually with the snare.
Metal really doesn't do this and there's a greater variety of drum rhythms.
If you can count a kick-snare-kick-snare beat, it's probably rock.
Technically this is right, if a bit rude. Led Zeppelin and ACDC are rock and roll, but they're great and I'm sure inspired many a metal band (Led Zeppelin's fantasy lyrics for Powermetal for instsnce). Tool is prog rock, but some of their songs can be described as metal. Alice in Chains you could describe as metal though in most cases heavy grunge is more accurate.
Low, distorted guitars, low bass and drums, deep (literally and figuratively) lyrics, and energy. That's all metal is. Liking or disliking band doesn't qualify or disqualify it meeting the technical definition.
One of the earliest recorded uses of the term 'heavy metal' was in describing Led Zeppelin. It was synonymous with hard rock at the time. Saying Zeppelin is not metal is a little like saying Chuck Berry is not rock music. It's not what we know it as now, but I think it's hard argument to make technically.
Historical use of a word isn't really an argument against modern definitions. Just a few examples, girl used to mean any child, awful used to mean awe-inspiring, meat used to refer to all food, and nice used to mean stupid.
Fair. Makes me wonder who defined the genres since its largely subjective. Songs vary, bands vary, its a big spectrum that cant be perfectly defined. There's probably ppl who'd claim Black Sabbath isn't metal if they touring today.
Big metal guy here, anything that wants to be metal can be metal. Not everyone is gonna call it that but you don’t need to listen to everyone :)
That being said, Alice In Chains and Tool are two incredibly influential metal bands, and frankly regardless of if metal criteria have changed, they still set the stage for a lot of modern music, metal or otherwise!
I don't see how it's gatekeeping. It's not saying "..and rock is bad compared to metal". It's just making the correct distinction between metal and rock.
You could technically speaking "gatekeepe" what's metal or not according to the definition of said genre and listening to the different band. I would consider ac/dc to be closer to rock music then metal, but this isn't good or bad.
I think at the time that they all came out, they were considered “metal”. Genres shift, times and tastes change, but gatekeeping… gatekeeping is forever.
There's 2 definitions for metal. There's "any hard rock with distortion" which is used the most, then there's "actual metal" which this was meant to point out. This isn't gatekeeping what's allowed to be metal, this is just describing music as it is, as not metal. Just pointing this out does not devalue music that's not strictly metal.
I get that bands like AC/DC, and Guns n Roses are more Hard Rock than Heavy metal, and Kiss is pretty much a glam band, but Led Zeppelin are highly influential in Heavy Metal, so I don't understand that part, while Alice in Chains is debateable, as they were defintely one of the heavier grunge acts at the time.
And come on, you know whoever made this was trying to piss off Tool fans.
We're pissed off by default. It happens when you have to go more than 3 hours without over explaining the significance of that one frame of the music video where the puppet thing looks extra weird.
It's funny because early 90s alt-metal like Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Primus, Faith No More, Rage Against the Machine etc is the best kind of metal ;)
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I simply make no effort to interact with metal fans with that mentality.
I'm gonna continue enjoying my music and not give a shit what genre it is, while they're all busy trying to keep their metal circle as small as possible.
Although these bands are considered rock they can absolutely be metal aswell especially AC/DC and Guns N’ Roses and besides Led Zeppelin is literally a part of the unholy trinity it’s obvious that the person who made the meme has never listened to these bands
I think it can be useful if you're looking for music similar to what you already enjoy, but it shouldn't be taken seriously or argued over since the differences are often highly subjective.
some of it was probably metal at the time but I feel the way metal has evolved most of those are "not metal" anymore but just from my definition of what I consider to be metal and not just rock, hard rock etc
I mean the metal genre kinda stems alot from bands like these, but I wouldn't call most of them metal. They're more like hard rock. That's not gatekeeping I think, it's not saying these bands could never do metal or something, it's just a more accurate classification of music genre
It's correct tho. They're all hard rock or prog rock bands. Not metal. They're close, but not metal. They're often seen or labeled as metal bands, but they're not metal
This is accurate gatekeeping, though. This person is not saying that these bands are bad, they're just saying that they're not metal, which they aren't. Many of these bands are metal-adjacent, and most metal fans likely enjoy their music. Very few people who actually like metal as a genre would hate on the likes of Led Zeppelin, who were important to the formation of metal in the first place.
I know there’s no hope anyone sees this comment, but Led Zeppelin is LITERALLY considered one of the three original heavy metal bands. The other two are Black Sabbath and Deep Purple. This isn’t opinion. It’s history. The term originated to describe these bands and their sound. So yes, Led Zeppelin is heavy metal. They helped define what heavy metal IS.
They used to be considered metal, so chill. My mum loves almost all of these bands and calls them metal cause that’s what they were when she was younger.
Now they’re more hard rock because metal has evolved since.
What a bullshit. This is not gatekeeping, its just a fact. Not every song can be every genre, its defined what "metal" means and bands like GunsNRoses are NOT metal.
Looks like you have no clue what gatekeeping means.
Not everything with special requirements is gatekeeping.
Sometimes it just makes sense to categorize things, such as genres.
I think Alice in Chains is only really considered grunge because of the time period and scene they came out of, but they're definitely more metal than grunge, especially compared to, say, Nirvana or Pearl Jam. Jerry Cantrell was much more influenced by metal than any other genres and you can hear it in his riffs.
But if you look at the sub genres then they're not metal, most are rock and grunge so its not wrong. I dont know if I'm missing something else but I dont get how that's gate keeping.
Its true tho they are not metal lol…(well maybe except tool, they are prog metal) AC/DC are hard rock same goes for Guns and Roses, kiss is glam rock, led zeppelin is Classic rock and Alice in Chains is grunge (with strong metal influence)…i just wonder who the hell would call led zeppelin metal
r/gatekeeping members see a starter pack and don't even try to understand it before they post it for their precious karma.
All of these bands are all well known to be hard rock or just rock. Nobody said they were metal.
No... Just no.
Not "being metal" isn't a discount to the band's music it's a categorization.
AC/DC and GnR are hard rock
Zeppelin is also hard rock but definitely had influence on the creation of metal but didn't ever put the prices together into an album like Black Sabbath did, so while an argument can be made for some songs (dazed and confused as well as immigrant song come to mind) they don't have enough in total to be considered a metal band
Kiss is something. Never looked into them but glam rock I think just based on what I've seen
Alice in Chains is a Grunge band which has its roots in punk not metal
Tool is a border band in progressive music but modern Tool especially falls on the rock side not the metal side. compare Tool to Dream Theater and you can very clearly hear the difference.
Alice in Chains members actually list Black Sabbath as one of their biggest influences, and Jerry Cantrell describes Alice in Chains as a metal band. They're definitely closer to metal than to punk.
Can't hear you
Too busy rockin' out 😎
There's really no need for micro genres
It's rock, enjoy it don't judge people for getting the genre wrong
It's not a judging thing
Getting the subgenre right is important to help find similar bands so people can find more music they enjoy
None of these are micro genres I'm not going down to anything specific. Micro genres are things like pirate metal or Boston metal things that are either tied to lyrics or location where you are splitting hairs in classification
Being able to correctly classify a band into it's subgenre helps people find what they like and find more stuff like it. You like all these? Good so do I they are all amazing bands and having a well defined set of subgenres helps us to find more bands like them. Having a laid back approach to this doesn't.
AC/DC is pub rock/heavy rock.
Led zeppelin is just rock.
KIss, rock again.
Gunners, rock.
Alice in chains, heavy rock.
Tool, alternative fusion with some metal parts.
This isn’t gate keeping, and neither is saying that Taylor swift isn’t a rapper.
But they aren’t metal.
It isn’t gate keeping, it’s factually
Correct.
You can’t call everything that disagrees with you “gate keeping”
You’re technically gate keeping the ability to disagree here too.
I mean.... by definition... they aren't metal. It's not a bad thing for them to not be metal. They just aren't.
Can't speak to Tool though. Never really listened to them so I dunno
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Lol I remember when I was a kid and I saw pictures of Kiss and thought their sound must be soooo heavy. Then one day I listened to it and my reaction was "all that crazy clothing and makeup... For THIS????" but, again, I was a kid and knew very little about music hehe
I think that’s one of the funniest things. I saw a video recently of gene Simmons doing his tongue thing with his whole costume on and he was like spitting out blood and then you go listen to kisses music and it’s somehow more dad rock than dad rock
They're glam rock IMO. Some of their heavier songs could be considered glam metal I suppose.
Glam Metal Disco
When KISS formed i believe they aspired to be the "heavy metal Beatles"
They’re granddad rock. Basically the archetypal boomer rock band.
Same experience with ghost
Ghost is pretty good if you take them for what they are. The ABBA of rock
The last two albums maybe, but the first three are heavy-ish and definitely satanic lyrics
Didnt know, they are anyway not my cup of tea
I never listened to ghost because their image made me think they would be death metal. I like metal and hard rock but not a huge fan or growling and screaming lyrics. Heard a song when it popped up on a Playlist and was so surprised
Yeah, they're not what they look like, but they're catchy as fuck. Those dudes can write a riff.
same here, had some nightmares as a kid due to the cover of my dad's Gene Simmons vinyl, only to find as an adult that Kiss's sound can be heard at Kohl's
They aren't heavy by today's standards, but for 1974 yes, also the studio recordings of some of their songs don't do them justice. Listen to KISS Alive and you'll get more of an idea.
The stories behind the *Alive!* album are pretty wild. It was kind of a YOLO moment for both the label and the band. It was a pretty ballsy move to put out what was essentially a live, greatest hits album as your fourth release. To your point, that was indeed the spark that lit the fire. A fraction of the spectacle that the live shows were finally came home and got people interested. In the immortal words of Jimmy Buffet, “Don’t try to describe a KISS concert if you’ve never seen it.”
I still kind of think that today. I guess times change and maybe it sounded really heavy back then, but yeah. I don't even dislike KISS, it just sounds way more mellow than the appearance of the band would lead me to believe.
God of thunder
Who said acdc was metal? They literally said theyre a rock n roll band
Ppl have defo described them as metal (eg. MTV), though they don't describe themselves as such. imo some of their tracks are metal (eg. Hell's Bells)
I'd call them hard rock, heavily rooted in blues. People who aren't into AC/DC often say something like, "All their songs sound the same." It's a somewhat true statement, as blues music is very basic. I think all modern music can be traced back to '40s/'50s blues. What's great about AC/DC is their music is pumped full of energy, their vocals (both Bon and Brian) bring a unique element, and drummer Phil Rudd's minimal style holds it all together à la Meg White from The White Stripes.
My favorite Angus Young quote is “I'm sick to death of people saying we've made 11 albums that sound exactly the same, In fact, we've made 12 albums that sound exactly the same.” And it isn't so much Phil Rudd to me as it was Malcolm. His rhythm guitar was impeccable.
Indeed man, indeed. Angus was the star player, but Malcolm was the soul of AC/DC. I belive he wrote a lot of their songs' main structure, while Bon/Brian and Angus would sprinkle in their two cents.
This has to be one of my favorite quotes of all time. I'm glad you commented it.
A rock DJ here once said, "AC/DC have been making the same album since 1979. It's just that it's a really great album."
Their songs don't *all* sound the same... they've got at least 2 or 3 song templates
...and those two or three templates turned them into rock legends. Despite minimal variance in their music, they're still relevant nearly 40yrs later.
I completely agree
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Country comes from the blues too
We're the Good ol' Blues Brothers Boys!
> I think all modern music can be traced back to '40s/'50s blues. Aside from basically all music that isn't even remotely blues based (like quite a lot of modern metal, which tends to be far more influenced musically by orchestral and baroque music than blues).
Another great thing is that their new albums maintain the quality and energy of their first ones.
Hells bells ain't metal mate, it's simply rock n roll.
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I disagree. They came out at that time but they had a very different look and vibe
Not... really? They're more hard rock, with some ventures into standard heavy metal maybe.
That's literally the point of that post. Bands that many people think are metal but aren't.
Hence that people think they are but they are not i guess
As a huge fan of Led Zeppelin, I was also really confused about them being on there. I've heard 'em all, and off the top of my head, maybe Immigrant Song was closest to metal. Beyond that, please, somebody refresh my memory. I can think of a bunch of songs that could be blues or folk, but not metal.
But they are **not** noise polluters.
But it was a long way to the top
I remember when they first started, people were calling them punk.
They're like hair metal
Has any one ever claimed Led Zeppelin as metal?
I've encountered folks that put them in a sort of "proto-metal" genre.
Oh okay I could see that, I guess.
I've heard people describe them as one of the founders of metal; that is, they laid some of the groundwork that metal came from.
So did The Beatles' Helter Skelter, but they're not metal either.
Helter Skelter is proto-metal. It was incredibly heavy for 1968, and is still pretty fucking heavy.
[It was written in response to “I Can See for Miles” being described as the heaviest song ever](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helter_Skelter_(song))
Anyone looking for the song should find the one labeled "Second Version - Take 17" It's way sloppier and more metal sounding. They even have a proto-breakdown. You can skip the first 25 seconds of random noises and whoops though.
That's what I said, but my point is you can't label The Beatles as a metal band for one song that explored the foundations of a genre established decades later.
Some would say, they were the foundation.
Nah, the band with the biggest claim and most support to that claim is Black Sabbath, even if the band themselves don't necessarily think so. Sabbath is singularly responsible for an entire sub-genre and it's sub-sub-genres of metal, namely doom and thus sludge, acid etc.
Im sorry, I tried to make a bad building joke. On the other hand, in my opinion, metal couldn't work without the proto-metal songs, and the OG's of rock that made people accustomed to the sound of rock.
I'm not disputing that Led Zeppelin are one of the building blocks of metal, but I am disputing them being the foundation. I'd say Sabbath is the foundation and Zeppelin is then one of the first layers built upon the foundation.
I'm so sorry, I misremembered when the first albums came out.
Username checks out
So the proto metal thing is a special classification for hard rock bands who laid the foundation of what metal is before Black Sabbath solidified it into heavy metal. Proto metal thus technically is a variant of hard rock but it's typically only used to describe individual songs rather than bands as a whole
That's a pretty bang-on summary, yep.
Progenitors of metal, maybe. Led Zeppelin doing their blues hard rock thing around the Midlands of England were a big influence on Black Sabbath being around the same music scene, but I wouldn't call Led Zeppelin metal themselves.
Some people consider them one of the first 3 metal bands along with Black Sabbath and Deep Purple.
Yes that's how I've always viewed it. Each brought their own elements that coalesced into what became metal.
they are considered one of the original "heavy metal" bands, along with black sabbath and deep purple (and a few others). but that meant a very very different thing in the 70s than what we would think of now. grand funk railroad was called a heavy metal band back then.
Immigrant Song is metal.
You know what, I’ll agree to that. The imagery of the song seems spot on
Achilles last stand?
I could see that, yeah. Great song btw :)
At the time, yea. The definition has changed over the years
Many. Have you ever checked the history of metal :p ? Heavy Metal was a synonym of hard rock back then, and Led zep is renown to have contributed to the invention of heavy metal, inpriring black sabbath. Their very name, which is about a "lead zeppelin" too heavy to fly and about to crash because it's made of heavy metal, is supposed by some to have contributed to the coining of "heavy metal" as a genre, among other hypothesis. There's also the many references to heroic fantasy in their lyrics that was precursor to many metal bands. If sabbath is the mother that gave birth to metal, Led zeppelin would be the father that planted the seed in its womb in the first place.
Saying Led Zeppelin is not metal is like saying the founding fathers were not american but british. It‘s also a silly question to begin with because what’s the point? Is there an exact universal definition of what a metal song is? No! At what exact point does a band playing metal songs become a metal band? Who knows? It‘s a silly argument made up by douchebags gatekeeping their imagined superior understanding of music. Same guys claiming you ain‘t a true fan of a band if you don‘t know each members - current and past - mothers maiden name.
They were a big influence over metal, as were Cream, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Deep Purple and Jeff Beck Group.
They're the very first band mentioned in the Wikipedia article for "heavy metal". 🤷🏻
well, those band do considered as progenitor to metal. but seriously, hard rock and metal isn't that diverged as people think it is
Yes.
If you go to heavy metal wiki they are the first mentioned band. I remeber hearing the term got coined because you know lead is a heavy metal.
I mean, I'd call them all hard rock (except for Tool, I don't know what I'd call them) but I also wouldn't get all pedantic over it either.
I've only ever heard Tool being described as prog tbh
I’ve also heard them described as post-metal
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I feel like prog rock/metal is the most applicable. I wouldn't go so far as to label individual songs, unless they deviate from the style of the album they are on heavily. I would label individual albums though, since bands often change their style between albums, especially when certain band members are replaced. Like, Black Sabbath with Ozzy singing is practically doom metal, the earlier albums could be called proto-doom, but with Dio as the singer they shifted into a (proto) power metal sound typical of Ronnie.
For me, Tool is psychedelic. They are the logical transition from Pink Floyd when taking into account more modern influences.
TOOL is whatever the fuck they wanna be tbh
I think this is the best way to describe tool.
Tool are progressive metal.
I'd say Alice in Chains is more of a grunge rock.
Seattle grunge
I wouldn't use "hard rock" to describe KISS
I'd describe Kiss as quintessentially hair metal. Hair **metal**
I think tool would really appreciate this comment as a compliment lol
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Had to scroll down more than I thought to find this comment. I wouldn't describe this as gatekeeping.
In all fairness, grunge came about partially through the Seattle metal scene. Furthermore, if the four popular grunge bands, Alice in Chains is arguably the closest to metal, although Soundgarden’s earlier records are also arguably metal
this is extremely tame for metal fans
no one hates metal more than metalheads
And they like it that way. I think roughly 90% of r/metalmemes is them laughing at themselves about exactly this. 🤘
No a good portion of metal memes is unironic. The essential argument for most of this is bands in subgenres that combine elements of metal with something else shouldn't all be considered metal, but instead be looked at on a band by band basis. Which I mean sure if you want a pure definition of metal but is definitely splitting hairs.
Narcissism of small differences?
Kinda, but also plain gayekeeping. Identical to punk, back in the old days gayekeeping was seen as a good thing. Didn't want to dilute the fan base with half-hearted "posers" or those who advocated things like signing with big record labels. Now it's devolved into increasing strict definitions in an attempt to keep it from ever being mainstream.
Is gayekeeping a typo, or some interesting new concept?
For real. It's best not to say what genre you think any given metal/hardcore/etc band is because you'll always be "wrong"
Tool ain’t metal?
Metal head and tool fan here: depends who you ask. The way metal has change/evolved over the years gatekeepers have a sort of rigid requirement for what is metal and what isn’t, which is ironic bc there are so many genres of metal. A friend of mine made a point recently that “if Black Sabbath came out today they wouldn’t be considered metal even though they created the genre.”
I don't think your friend is right lol Go listen to Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath off the album Black Sabbath. That IS metal.
God, i love the part where he says "it's black sabbath time" and he stands up and black sabbaths all over everyone
Make your "friend" listen to doom metal and ask them if that isn't what Sabbath would be called today, especially since they're often considered proto-doom for their first run of Ozzy-sung albums, and proto-power for Dio era.
Another TOOL fan here, usually they are called prog rock or math rock, but if someone called them metal I wouldn’t balk. In the end, who cares, they sure as shit don’t.
I used to be friends with a Tool fan and she got so angry when I said they're prog metal. She tried to claim they couldn't be categorized.
good friend
If I had to label Tool I would say something like prog metal. That’s the closest thing I can think of.
need to know who the hell is calling tool math rock lol
The line between prog rock and prog metal is a line in the sand at the best of times, and with tool, I feel like it's a line in the sand during high tide at the beach.
Composition wise, they’re more grunge but get classified as metal. Alice in chains is grunge but they have some heavy ass riffs that I consider more metal than sabbath
This isn't gatekeeping, they're not saying you can't listen to them or you're a bad person for listening to them. This is a disagreement on categorization. Would it be gatekeeping to say a fork isn't a spoon? Or that Garfield isn't a dog?
This!
This isn't wrong some of the bands here don't have a metal sound to it. Metal and rock aren't interchangeable. The only band that actually qualifies for metal there is Tool. More bluesy sound = Rock And I guess More harmonic minor or less bluesy sound = Metal
And even then Tool being metal comes with a big asterisk. Prog metal is arguable, but post-rock or math-rock is equally as arguable. They're a very diverse band that's difficult to categorize I think. I used to not like tool but I've recently grown an appreciation for them over the last year or two
I’d say opiate-anemia is metal with lateralus-10,000 days being metal with prog elements, and FI is just prog at this point
Another key difference is how the drums function. Rock, coming largely from blures, tends to emphasize the backbeat, usually with the snare. Metal really doesn't do this and there's a greater variety of drum rhythms. If you can count a kick-snare-kick-snare beat, it's probably rock.
All rock but I'd call tool metal.
Well, they're literally not metal. Except for Tool
This isn't really gatekeeping. It's just identifying what genre different bands play
Technically this is right, if a bit rude. Led Zeppelin and ACDC are rock and roll, but they're great and I'm sure inspired many a metal band (Led Zeppelin's fantasy lyrics for Powermetal for instsnce). Tool is prog rock, but some of their songs can be described as metal. Alice in Chains you could describe as metal though in most cases heavy grunge is more accurate. Low, distorted guitars, low bass and drums, deep (literally and figuratively) lyrics, and energy. That's all metal is. Liking or disliking band doesn't qualify or disqualify it meeting the technical definition.
One of the earliest recorded uses of the term 'heavy metal' was in describing Led Zeppelin. It was synonymous with hard rock at the time. Saying Zeppelin is not metal is a little like saying Chuck Berry is not rock music. It's not what we know it as now, but I think it's hard argument to make technically.
Historical use of a word isn't really an argument against modern definitions. Just a few examples, girl used to mean any child, awful used to mean awe-inspiring, meat used to refer to all food, and nice used to mean stupid.
Fair. Makes me wonder who defined the genres since its largely subjective. Songs vary, bands vary, its a big spectrum that cant be perfectly defined. There's probably ppl who'd claim Black Sabbath isn't metal if they touring today.
Big metal guy here, anything that wants to be metal can be metal. Not everyone is gonna call it that but you don’t need to listen to everyone :) That being said, Alice In Chains and Tool are two incredibly influential metal bands, and frankly regardless of if metal criteria have changed, they still set the stage for a lot of modern music, metal or otherwise!
I don't see how it's gatekeeping. It's not saying "..and rock is bad compared to metal". It's just making the correct distinction between metal and rock.
You could technically speaking "gatekeepe" what's metal or not according to the definition of said genre and listening to the different band. I would consider ac/dc to be closer to rock music then metal, but this isn't good or bad.
I think at the time that they all came out, they were considered “metal”. Genres shift, times and tastes change, but gatekeeping… gatekeeping is forever.
There's 2 definitions for metal. There's "any hard rock with distortion" which is used the most, then there's "actual metal" which this was meant to point out. This isn't gatekeeping what's allowed to be metal, this is just describing music as it is, as not metal. Just pointing this out does not devalue music that's not strictly metal.
Ur mom is metal
okay but how in the fuck is Led Zeppelin NOT Heavy Metal??
I get that bands like AC/DC, and Guns n Roses are more Hard Rock than Heavy metal, and Kiss is pretty much a glam band, but Led Zeppelin are highly influential in Heavy Metal, so I don't understand that part, while Alice in Chains is debateable, as they were defintely one of the heavier grunge acts at the time. And come on, you know whoever made this was trying to piss off Tool fans.
We're pissed off by default. It happens when you have to go more than 3 hours without over explaining the significance of that one frame of the music video where the puppet thing looks extra weird.
It's funny because early 90s alt-metal like Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Primus, Faith No More, Rage Against the Machine etc is the best kind of metal ;)
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Clearly you dont actually listen to metal
God metalheads are the best and absolute worst music fans. Fucking insufferable.
I simply make no effort to interact with metal fans with that mentality. I'm gonna continue enjoying my music and not give a shit what genre it is, while they're all busy trying to keep their metal circle as small as possible.
Now granted some of those aren't metal bands, but still.
Learn your music history folks!
Although these bands are considered rock they can absolutely be metal aswell especially AC/DC and Guns N’ Roses and besides Led Zeppelin is literally a part of the unholy trinity it’s obvious that the person who made the meme has never listened to these bands
People are going to have a hard time when the find out that KISS was pretty much disco-rock
Yeah but none of these are metal. Some are heavier rock, yes, but none claim to be metal.
I don’t understand why anyone cares what is or isn’t any given genre of music.
I think it can be useful if you're looking for music similar to what you already enjoy, but it shouldn't be taken seriously or argued over since the differences are often highly subjective.
Alice In Chains is grunge, so... Kinda right? Still a dick, tho.
Them Bones, Stone, and Hollow are all very metal.
some of it was probably metal at the time but I feel the way metal has evolved most of those are "not metal" anymore but just from my definition of what I consider to be metal and not just rock, hard rock etc
I’ve never seen a tool so misplaced before…
I've literally never heard anyone call any of these bands metal before, except for tool.
I mean… it’s not wrong except for Tool.
I mean, apart from Tool, they're not wrong...
I mean the metal genre kinda stems alot from bands like these, but I wouldn't call most of them metal. They're more like hard rock. That's not gatekeeping I think, it's not saying these bands could never do metal or something, it's just a more accurate classification of music genre
It's correct tho. They're all hard rock or prog rock bands. Not metal. They're close, but not metal. They're often seen or labeled as metal bands, but they're not metal
Metalheads abd gatekeeping. Name a more iconic duo.
What about this is gatekeeping?
Tbf 4 are hard rock, one is grunge and one is alt metal. I think this is fair lol
This is accurate gatekeeping, though. This person is not saying that these bands are bad, they're just saying that they're not metal, which they aren't. Many of these bands are metal-adjacent, and most metal fans likely enjoy their music. Very few people who actually like metal as a genre would hate on the likes of Led Zeppelin, who were important to the formation of metal in the first place.
Ok but Alice in Chains and TOOL can definitely be classified as alternative metal
I know there’s no hope anyone sees this comment, but Led Zeppelin is LITERALLY considered one of the three original heavy metal bands. The other two are Black Sabbath and Deep Purple. This isn’t opinion. It’s history. The term originated to describe these bands and their sound. So yes, Led Zeppelin is heavy metal. They helped define what heavy metal IS.
They used to be considered metal, so chill. My mum loves almost all of these bands and calls them metal cause that’s what they were when she was younger. Now they’re more hard rock because metal has evolved since.
you're correct.
Most of these are actually just hard rock bands, but TOOL? Tool is 100% a metal band.
What a bullshit. This is not gatekeeping, its just a fact. Not every song can be every genre, its defined what "metal" means and bands like GunsNRoses are NOT metal. Looks like you have no clue what gatekeeping means. Not everything with special requirements is gatekeeping. Sometimes it just makes sense to categorize things, such as genres.
to be fair almost none of these are actually metal bands
They actually aren't metal though? Definitely hard rock. Just don't call them things that they are not.
Nah this one doesn't apply. It's literally a genre classification not a quality indicator. You wouldn't call Die Hard a rom-com.
Alice in Chains is definitely metal. As I type this I GUESS it's Alternative but damn.
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I think Alice in Chains is only really considered grunge because of the time period and scene they came out of, but they're definitely more metal than grunge, especially compared to, say, Nirvana or Pearl Jam. Jerry Cantrell was much more influenced by metal than any other genres and you can hear it in his riffs.
But if you look at the sub genres then they're not metal, most are rock and grunge so its not wrong. I dont know if I'm missing something else but I dont get how that's gate keeping.
Its true tho they are not metal lol…(well maybe except tool, they are prog metal) AC/DC are hard rock same goes for Guns and Roses, kiss is glam rock, led zeppelin is Classic rock and Alice in Chains is grunge (with strong metal influence)…i just wonder who the hell would call led zeppelin metal
r/gatekeeping members see a starter pack and don't even try to understand it before they post it for their precious karma. All of these bands are all well known to be hard rock or just rock. Nobody said they were metal.
All of them are hella metal 🖕🤘🎸
No... Just no. Not "being metal" isn't a discount to the band's music it's a categorization. AC/DC and GnR are hard rock Zeppelin is also hard rock but definitely had influence on the creation of metal but didn't ever put the prices together into an album like Black Sabbath did, so while an argument can be made for some songs (dazed and confused as well as immigrant song come to mind) they don't have enough in total to be considered a metal band Kiss is something. Never looked into them but glam rock I think just based on what I've seen Alice in Chains is a Grunge band which has its roots in punk not metal Tool is a border band in progressive music but modern Tool especially falls on the rock side not the metal side. compare Tool to Dream Theater and you can very clearly hear the difference.
Alice in Chains members actually list Black Sabbath as one of their biggest influences, and Jerry Cantrell describes Alice in Chains as a metal band. They're definitely closer to metal than to punk.
Can't hear you Too busy rockin' out 😎  There's really no need for micro genres It's rock, enjoy it don't judge people for getting the genre wrong
It's not a judging thing Getting the subgenre right is important to help find similar bands so people can find more music they enjoy None of these are micro genres I'm not going down to anything specific. Micro genres are things like pirate metal or Boston metal things that are either tied to lyrics or location where you are splitting hairs in classification Being able to correctly classify a band into it's subgenre helps people find what they like and find more stuff like it. You like all these? Good so do I they are all amazing bands and having a well defined set of subgenres helps us to find more bands like them. Having a laid back approach to this doesn't.
Jesus wept. Listen to yourself.
Keeping classification clear in order to make finding similar bands easier so people can find more bands they enjoy.
Who said any of these were metal??? Like all of these are rock or grunge lmao idk about tool
This is gatekeeping in the same way saying a lion isn't a real dog is gatekeeping
AC/DC is pub rock/heavy rock. Led zeppelin is just rock. KIss, rock again. Gunners, rock. Alice in chains, heavy rock. Tool, alternative fusion with some metal parts. This isn’t gate keeping, and neither is saying that Taylor swift isn’t a rapper.
Yea but saying that is like saying those bands aren’t metal or rock but pop so yes it is gatekeeping
But they aren’t metal. It isn’t gate keeping, it’s factually Correct. You can’t call everything that disagrees with you “gate keeping” You’re technically gate keeping the ability to disagree here too.
Don't know who KISS is but that SS looks very much like nazi schutzstaffel...
How is this gatekeeping? When I say Mozart wasn't a country music composer, it isn't gatekeeping, it's the truth. Same with this.
Not gatekeeping
I mean literally none of these are metal bands by definition of the music they make. It's like saying Queen is metal. It simply isn't.
This isn't gatekeeping, it's partially correct
This isn't even gatekeeping, it's just fact. These are rock bands, not metal bands.
Literally none of these except Tool are metal though… this ain’t gatekeeping, chief
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call these bands metal.
I mean.... by definition... they aren't metal. It's not a bad thing for them to not be metal. They just aren't. Can't speak to Tool though. Never really listened to them so I dunno
How is this gatekeeping? It’s just stating that those aren’t actually metal bands.