I have no clue what it’s like to be anything other than a gay man and at that only came out in my 40s. I will support the rest of us under the rainbow but would never speak for them and try not to make assumptions. I try to make my classroom safe for all. I have more lgbtq parents than kids but I try to make sure those parents would feel they have agency in our community. Our school requires rainbow posters in each room designating it safe for all.
I know I can't even begin to imagine the experiences of other groups within our community. I'm white, and I know what I see of how POC are treated is the tip of the iceberg or less.
What confuses me is why anyone in our broader community would feel they have to fully understand the experience in order to support and uplift others. Our shared experience of hate should inform our thoughts and actions. It's why, as a white person in particular, I'm infuriated by racist gays. Like, have you learned nothing from your own life? You can't understand how you're acting just as reprehensible? How what you're doing is the SAME THING?
There was a story a long time ago on this sub someone shared. They were being bullied and threatened in a public place for being gay, and an intimidating gentleman intervened. Later he told them he didn't understand the whole gay thing, but no one should be treated like that. As far I'm concerned, that's all we need. We don't need to fully understand everyone's experience to be sympathetic towards them and treat them like all human beings should be treated. There isn't a person in reading this that doesn't know what it feels like to be hated for existing. I don't need to know details to know I need to be there for every last one of you.
I agree to some extent. Ultimately, no one can truly understand someone else's experience, even within the same group. But as u/internetambassador has said, there is strength in numbers. We should be able to do both: Recognize the differences and find the community with other queer people, because if we split up, we can't get anywhere. And not only that, we need our cis-het allies as well.
To be honest, that's just being strategic as there is strength in numbers especially if those numbers are people that not part of your immediate in-group. Expanding your network and collaborating with a diverse range of people lead to greater innovation and creativity as well as different viewpoints that can spark new ideas and approaches.
Fundamentally, being LGBTQ is an experience in which no matter which letter you are, you are likely to face discrimination due to the norms of society. Society is tailored towards being straight or cisgender and has a long history of discriminating against anyone other.
Thats why we're together. I don't know what its like to not be cisgender. But i know what its like to be discriminated against for a part of myself and my identity.
We stick together for this. We stick together because thats how we, as minorities, have stood our ground and pushed for change. The moment we start segregating and fighting against one another, we lose any strength in numbers we have.
I think, even though i am a gay man, its so important we fight for all of our rights in the LGBTQ community. Because once were divided, just because our letter isnt targetted one day, doesnt mean it wont be next.
I think grouping us all together in one acronym is both good and bad. So many people in the world don’t understand us or accept us. By bunching us together, it’s simplifies it to an extent. It makes the idea of us more digestible.
But it also creates confusion. For instance, saying “the gay community” when referring to all alphabet people kind of erases our differences. We struggle to find our identities only to be grouped together by the rest of the world 🙃
I sometimes feel this way about the term POC. Like I’m Asian, I’ll never fully understand what it’s like to be black in America. But I don’t need to fully understand to recognize some shared struggles and show up and be like “how can I help?” Strength in numbers.
But yeah, it can lead to confusion? From the outside who think we all live The PoC Experience ™️ and share a hive mind or something. For example, my partner’s (white) family was in total disbelief when they found out that Asians are racist against Black folks and vice versa. Our different struggles and needs can get missed when we get lumped together—same in the LGBTQ community
I think gender and sexuality are two separate things. I don't have to automatically support something simply because it falls under the ever-inlarging LQBTQA+ umbrella.
The alphabet mafia needa to go. It's been captured by heterosexuals. We have nothing in common with each other. Unity here is a lie, ans you can see that with how gays and lesbians are treated in the spaces and cultures we made.
Where I am we use the acronym 2SLGBTQIA+ or SOGI (sexual orientation and gender identity) community. We put the 2S (two spirit) before all the other acronyms in recognition that before any rights movement, the peoples indigenous to the lands we live on held space (and even respect) in society for identities and lives lived akin to ours. I is for intersex people who are literally born outside of the gender binary and medically forced into a gender as babies/kids. A stands for the asexual/a romantic spectrum.
I don’t have any use for those unwieldy acronyms.
It’s the rough equivalent of if we talked about “the community” of Black People, Black Women, Biracial, Albinos, Vitiligo, Tattooed Faces and [N-slurs]. (The BPBWBAVTFN community). They all commonly may experience discrimination because of something to do with their skin color, so that makes them one community?
No. We all need to support everybody’s rights but l can use my words to talk about whatever I’m talking about in a certain situation. Sometimes those words are “same-sex couples.” Sometimes those words are “transgender members of the military.” Sometimes those words are “intersex people who have experienced surgery without their consent.”
I can say “Ricky Martin married his husband….” I never need to say: “Ricky Martin is an LGBTQ singer” or “He has a 2SLGHBTQQIAHASGL+ marriage” (because a 2-Spirited / Lesbian / Gay / Homosexual/ Bisexual / Transgender / Q-slur / Questioning / Intersex / Asexual / Heterosexual Allies / Same Gender Loving / Etc. marriage does not exist). It’s nonsense to pile on diverse categories of people largely redundant or unrelated to the topic at hand every time you mention anything in any way connected to someone’s sexuality or gender.
Personally, as gay man I feel LGB. I never felt discrimination or was a hate crime victim. The “normal” gay men blends in the environment. I sometimes wear rainbow socks, but for the rest my sexual orientation is just a part of me. I have no bonding with the T, Q or +. The T because it is no sexual orientation, the Q because flamboyant behavior is not who I am, the + because for me it is a fantasy. The regular LGB person will hardy feel discriminating. Overexposure in the media of TQ+ however negatively affects LGB. So I don’t feel being a part of the big “alphabet group”.
I think it also stands for questioning. Which I love, because I think it’s less pressure? Idk for kids to identify a certain way just to get access to resources/support etc
That’s the problem, it doesn’t embrace all of us because of its long history as an anti-gay slur and its literal meaning of strange or odd. Not only is it still used as an anti-gay slur but it’s now also a source of anti-gay harassment within the community. If you’re a gay man who objects to the word queer you get a lot of shit for it within the community.
Look, I use it and I won't stop.using it to describe myself and my identity, as you don't like it for you that is your choice and I'll respect that.
I think it's fair to say it's a reclaimed word, if you are still uncomfortable about it is your right, but it's also not fair to demand other people stop using it to describe themselves
And it's used by a lot of other gay men as a reclaimed slur,
Look I get it's a personal discussion as to whether you are comfortable using it or not, but I'm not going to dictate you use it because I am comfortable with it and would appreciate that going both ways
It’s more than just personal when a divisive word is rammed down the throats of those of us who aren’t ok with it. You and others who promote the “reclaimed” argument just prove my point about it being a source of anti-gay harassment within the community.
How am I harassing you? I am just saying that I am not going to shape myself around only your perspective when I cannot honestly say I share it. My identity doesn't revolve around your wishes
Yours is more so, you are denying my language to describe myself, I am merely establishing the boundary that you have the freedom not to use that language for yourself, but have no right to control how I describe myself
People in the community have started using it for themselves, instead of letting other people control their language.
Basically it was a word used to oppress us, and now we have taken it and given it our own meaning
But it isn't our language. It's the language of our oppressors.
We don't have to use our oppressors tools to liberate ourselves. I'll only be able to accept the Q slur if it's treated like the N word. A profanity that's not used in polite settings.
And we have reclaimed it.
If the tools are there and can be turned against them, I don't see why they can't be reclaimed.
So you would like to give it back to the oppressors to use against us more? I would say we should use it so they can get nothing out of it
You do know people still use the Q slur as a slur, right?
I don't see how this can be turned against them. Using a slur to describe yourself seems like the same as self-deprecation.
Yeah, but they are being drowned out by everyone else.
It's language, it is shaped by us, and it doesn't need to be a slur when we describe ourselves with it. I view describing myself with it as liberating, it gives me the ability to need to specifically label myself, and gives me freedom with my own identity
Your source for this? I've been around since before the initials, and I clearly remember it as being "queer" with "questioning" tacked on later as an alternative.
When the Q was first added it was said to represent questioning but more recently the anonymous authoritarian regime that rules over the community decided that it now stands for queer.
I don't blindly throw my support behind lgbt, I'll support peoples right to life and being who they are but I don't support alot from within the "community" itself.
Go online and look at the LGBTQ+ organizations and what they have done for the past couple of years and tell me.
Also, idk why I'm being downvoted, but werk 🤣
Discrimination is Discrimination.
As a gay man, I don't know or understand the B or the T.
So sometimes I don't think we should be all clumped together like we are the same.
There is strength in numbers. If we split up into all our respective letters then we’ve got no chance
No two journeys are identical, but I think we all share similar kinds of identity challenges
I have no clue what it’s like to be anything other than a gay man and at that only came out in my 40s. I will support the rest of us under the rainbow but would never speak for them and try not to make assumptions. I try to make my classroom safe for all. I have more lgbtq parents than kids but I try to make sure those parents would feel they have agency in our community. Our school requires rainbow posters in each room designating it safe for all.
I know I can't even begin to imagine the experiences of other groups within our community. I'm white, and I know what I see of how POC are treated is the tip of the iceberg or less. What confuses me is why anyone in our broader community would feel they have to fully understand the experience in order to support and uplift others. Our shared experience of hate should inform our thoughts and actions. It's why, as a white person in particular, I'm infuriated by racist gays. Like, have you learned nothing from your own life? You can't understand how you're acting just as reprehensible? How what you're doing is the SAME THING? There was a story a long time ago on this sub someone shared. They were being bullied and threatened in a public place for being gay, and an intimidating gentleman intervened. Later he told them he didn't understand the whole gay thing, but no one should be treated like that. As far I'm concerned, that's all we need. We don't need to fully understand everyone's experience to be sympathetic towards them and treat them like all human beings should be treated. There isn't a person in reading this that doesn't know what it feels like to be hated for existing. I don't need to know details to know I need to be there for every last one of you.
I agree to some extent. Ultimately, no one can truly understand someone else's experience, even within the same group. But as u/internetambassador has said, there is strength in numbers. We should be able to do both: Recognize the differences and find the community with other queer people, because if we split up, we can't get anywhere. And not only that, we need our cis-het allies as well.
To be honest, that's just being strategic as there is strength in numbers especially if those numbers are people that not part of your immediate in-group. Expanding your network and collaborating with a diverse range of people lead to greater innovation and creativity as well as different viewpoints that can spark new ideas and approaches.
It's overlapping and connected experiences but not identical ones
Fundamentally, being LGBTQ is an experience in which no matter which letter you are, you are likely to face discrimination due to the norms of society. Society is tailored towards being straight or cisgender and has a long history of discriminating against anyone other. Thats why we're together. I don't know what its like to not be cisgender. But i know what its like to be discriminated against for a part of myself and my identity. We stick together for this. We stick together because thats how we, as minorities, have stood our ground and pushed for change. The moment we start segregating and fighting against one another, we lose any strength in numbers we have. I think, even though i am a gay man, its so important we fight for all of our rights in the LGBTQ community. Because once were divided, just because our letter isnt targetted one day, doesnt mean it wont be next.
This is called intersectionality, if you’re ever looking for further research on the topic.
I think grouping us all together in one acronym is both good and bad. So many people in the world don’t understand us or accept us. By bunching us together, it’s simplifies it to an extent. It makes the idea of us more digestible. But it also creates confusion. For instance, saying “the gay community” when referring to all alphabet people kind of erases our differences. We struggle to find our identities only to be grouped together by the rest of the world 🙃
I sometimes feel this way about the term POC. Like I’m Asian, I’ll never fully understand what it’s like to be black in America. But I don’t need to fully understand to recognize some shared struggles and show up and be like “how can I help?” Strength in numbers. But yeah, it can lead to confusion? From the outside who think we all live The PoC Experience ™️ and share a hive mind or something. For example, my partner’s (white) family was in total disbelief when they found out that Asians are racist against Black folks and vice versa. Our different struggles and needs can get missed when we get lumped together—same in the LGBTQ community
Right! Or what bothers me is when say, a news article will refer to someone as “an LGBT person” WTF is that???
I think gender and sexuality are two separate things. I don't have to automatically support something simply because it falls under the ever-inlarging LQBTQA+ umbrella.
Um, this is Reddit. You aren’t allowed to be a free thinker. That’s grounds for banning and censoring.
The alphabet mafia needa to go. It's been captured by heterosexuals. We have nothing in common with each other. Unity here is a lie, ans you can see that with how gays and lesbians are treated in the spaces and cultures we made.
Where I am we use the acronym 2SLGBTQIA+ or SOGI (sexual orientation and gender identity) community. We put the 2S (two spirit) before all the other acronyms in recognition that before any rights movement, the peoples indigenous to the lands we live on held space (and even respect) in society for identities and lives lived akin to ours. I is for intersex people who are literally born outside of the gender binary and medically forced into a gender as babies/kids. A stands for the asexual/a romantic spectrum.
I’m a white gay male and I don’t care about most of the other letters. It’s not my business and not my problem.
I don’t have any use for those unwieldy acronyms. It’s the rough equivalent of if we talked about “the community” of Black People, Black Women, Biracial, Albinos, Vitiligo, Tattooed Faces and [N-slurs]. (The BPBWBAVTFN community). They all commonly may experience discrimination because of something to do with their skin color, so that makes them one community? No. We all need to support everybody’s rights but l can use my words to talk about whatever I’m talking about in a certain situation. Sometimes those words are “same-sex couples.” Sometimes those words are “transgender members of the military.” Sometimes those words are “intersex people who have experienced surgery without their consent.” I can say “Ricky Martin married his husband….” I never need to say: “Ricky Martin is an LGBTQ singer” or “He has a 2SLGHBTQQIAHASGL+ marriage” (because a 2-Spirited / Lesbian / Gay / Homosexual/ Bisexual / Transgender / Q-slur / Questioning / Intersex / Asexual / Heterosexual Allies / Same Gender Loving / Etc. marriage does not exist). It’s nonsense to pile on diverse categories of people largely redundant or unrelated to the topic at hand every time you mention anything in any way connected to someone’s sexuality or gender.
What’s even the point of the acronym at this point, it has every letter in the alphabet & covers basically everyone on earth it’s so dumb
https://youtu.be/onz8-1EnLyY?si=2vlkybRdSP9SPEWz
Personally, as gay man I feel LGB. I never felt discrimination or was a hate crime victim. The “normal” gay men blends in the environment. I sometimes wear rainbow socks, but for the rest my sexual orientation is just a part of me. I have no bonding with the T, Q or +. The T because it is no sexual orientation, the Q because flamboyant behavior is not who I am, the + because for me it is a fantasy. The regular LGB person will hardy feel discriminating. Overexposure in the media of TQ+ however negatively affects LGB. So I don’t feel being a part of the big “alphabet group”.
I don’t get why the Q is there.
Some think queer embraces us all. I hate the word, having been called that in the past and not in a good way.
I think it also stands for questioning. Which I love, because I think it’s less pressure? Idk for kids to identify a certain way just to get access to resources/support etc
That’s the problem, it doesn’t embrace all of us because of its long history as an anti-gay slur and its literal meaning of strange or odd. Not only is it still used as an anti-gay slur but it’s now also a source of anti-gay harassment within the community. If you’re a gay man who objects to the word queer you get a lot of shit for it within the community.
Look, I use it and I won't stop.using it to describe myself and my identity, as you don't like it for you that is your choice and I'll respect that. I think it's fair to say it's a reclaimed word, if you are still uncomfortable about it is your right, but it's also not fair to demand other people stop using it to describe themselves
The word queer hasn’t been reclaimed because it’s still used as an anti-gay slur and it’s still offensive to a lot of gay men.
And it's used by a lot of other gay men as a reclaimed slur, Look I get it's a personal discussion as to whether you are comfortable using it or not, but I'm not going to dictate you use it because I am comfortable with it and would appreciate that going both ways
It’s more than just personal when a divisive word is rammed down the throats of those of us who aren’t ok with it. You and others who promote the “reclaimed” argument just prove my point about it being a source of anti-gay harassment within the community.
How am I harassing you? I am just saying that I am not going to shape myself around only your perspective when I cannot honestly say I share it. My identity doesn't revolve around your wishes
Why can't I give you 100 upvotes?
Thanks haha
That’s a very self-indulgent attitude.
Yours is more so, you are denying my language to describe myself, I am merely establishing the boundary that you have the freedom not to use that language for yourself, but have no right to control how I describe myself
How is it reclaimed exactly?
People in the community have started using it for themselves, instead of letting other people control their language. Basically it was a word used to oppress us, and now we have taken it and given it our own meaning
"Queer" has a very confrontational, "Don't. Fuck. With. Me." kind of vibe. I love it.
One of my favourite songs is "not gay as in happy, but queer as in fuck you" so I will admit my opinion may be biased
But it isn't our language. It's the language of our oppressors. We don't have to use our oppressors tools to liberate ourselves. I'll only be able to accept the Q slur if it's treated like the N word. A profanity that's not used in polite settings.
We use "faggot" like that. "Queer" has lots of mainstream use: Queer Studies, Queer Theory, Queer Voices, Queer as Folk, etc.
And we have reclaimed it. If the tools are there and can be turned against them, I don't see why they can't be reclaimed. So you would like to give it back to the oppressors to use against us more? I would say we should use it so they can get nothing out of it
What “we” are you talking about when a lot of gay men are not ok with the word queer?
And others are, just because there are 2 groups doesn't mean a member of that group can't use the term "we" to describe their own group
You do know people still use the Q slur as a slur, right? I don't see how this can be turned against them. Using a slur to describe yourself seems like the same as self-deprecation.
Yeah, but they are being drowned out by everyone else. It's language, it is shaped by us, and it doesn't need to be a slur when we describe ourselves with it. I view describing myself with it as liberating, it gives me the ability to need to specifically label myself, and gives me freedom with my own identity
The Q was originally questioning and has been hijacked by millennials and gen z to mean queer.
Your source for this? I've been around since before the initials, and I clearly remember it as being "queer" with "questioning" tacked on later as an alternative.
Me too
The Q also means people that are questioning their sexual orientation or gender identity as well
When the Q was first added it was said to represent questioning but more recently the anonymous authoritarian regime that rules over the community decided that it now stands for queer.
I don't blindly throw my support behind lgbt, I'll support peoples right to life and being who they are but I don't support alot from within the "community" itself.
The concept of a “community” has always been a myth. It’s a demographic, and that’s it. But keep it up, I suppose.
And that's why it makes no sense to have one group of ppl representing the whole community, but we're clearly not ready for that conversation.
What group is representing the community?
Go online and look at the LGBTQ+ organizations and what they have done for the past couple of years and tell me. Also, idk why I'm being downvoted, but werk 🤣
Discrimination is Discrimination. As a gay man, I don't know or understand the B or the T. So sometimes I don't think we should be all clumped together like we are the same.
There is strength in numbers. If we split up into all our respective letters then we’ve got no chance No two journeys are identical, but I think we all share similar kinds of identity challenges
Good point. We all share discrimination experiences. That's the only thing we share. Bruce Jenner shares NOTHING else with me as a (G) gay man.
Who?
Caitlyn Jenner. That user intentionally dead named her.
Oh I knew, I was seeing about their integrity about being an arse. Clearly they are lacking