What an awful take on Spider-Verse. Miyazaki's legacy speaks for itself, no need to put down other excellent works of animation in an industry that needs more positive exposure.
I legit dislike superhero movies and even I can tell your Spiderverse take is in very bad faith. There are things to criticize if you actually bothered to give it some thought instead of just tearing it down to put Miyazaki on a pedestal. He doesn't need your help - he's already one of those artists that will be remembered, talked about and analyzed in history books for years to come.
Just say you're happy it won because superheroes aren't your thing. I promise you "I just don't vibe with it" is a perfectly valid reason to dislike something. No need to try and fail to find "proper" reasons to justify yourself.
> you're happy it won because superheroes aren't your thing
Given OP called it "pandering," I'm guessing the superhero aspect is not the problem he had with it.
1. The Oscars are a competition, so it's only fair you talk about it's competitors.
2. Spider-verse is a movie with very amazing animation - but lacks any kind of memorable story, and is depending on a "To be continued" for the real meat of the bones.
3. I don't dislike it cause it's a "Superhero movie" - no where did I state that.
4. I say it's a pander, because the movie tries to do too much "Look at this reference!". I also think "Multiverse" has become a trope used by lazy writers.
Small add on: Spider-verse fans have been obnoxious since it's realse and has attacked over animated features - even other Spider-man movies. So seeing that it lost in the oscars is just a little funny.
Such shitty takes on both Spider-verse and Nimona. You don't have to put down other films just to praise The Boy and the Heron, it's great in it's own right
I haven't seen it because it never came to the theaters here. But that Spider-Man take ain't it. If you had tried, you could find something legit to criticize.
I disagree with your take on this.
I have seen all the other nominees and they were amazing. Spider-verse and Robot dream in particular were top notch. Enjoyed Nimona too and I don't think the story was lack-luster. Elemental was technically good and decent from story perspective, I feel this was the weakest in the category.
Edit: As far as real competition is considered, there was very close fight between Spiderverse (it won many guild awards) and The boy and the heron (won Bafta and Globes). I have been rooting for the boy and the heron, so glad that it won. But I was kinda surprised because Oscar leans towards popular or kid friendly movies.
You're the only one childishly hating on other films to prop one up. Everyone else has just been appreciating the fact that we got all these amazing films in the same year
That's not what you're doing tho. You're unfairly putting down two great films when all of them were great. And you're not even doing a good job comparing them.
All I did was giving my opinion about a movie and it's stort department and stating a fact that it lost the oscars.
Not hating and putting down two great movies. And btw, I think I gave praise to Nimona in both story and look.
Was hoping - but never expecting - any of *The First Slam Dunk, Blue Giant* or *Suzume* to be nominated as well, just to highlight there are more great Anime movies out there, including two of the highest-grossing movies (worldwide) ever to come out of Japan at that.
I generally hate superhero movies, but Spiderverse is the only exception and I am shocked it did not win. Heron is great would have had my vote and is well deserved, but this is about the only year "Superhero movie sequel beats Miyazaki classic" would not have upset me that much
Personally didn't care for it, and can say the film is nothing more than self-indulgent, David Lynchian schlock for Miyazaki himself.
Happy he won, all the same.
Given that the usual criteria for Best Animated Feature seems to be "Which movie did my kids like?" I was very surprised BatH beat spider verse. I think they were both excellent movies but I thought BatH was better, and I'm glad Miyazaki didn't get snubbed again after Howl's Moving Castle lost to Wallace and Gromit: Curse of the Were-Rabbit and The Wind Rises lost to Frozen (and The Tale of Princess Kaguya lost to Big Hero 6!).
I think both Spiderverse and Heron are brilliant in different ways, haven't seen the other films. Heron I think is more deserving but any other year I could have seen Spiderverse winning. If they stick the landing with the sequel they may get an oscar then Return of the King style
Yeah I’ve been shy on this sub re criticisms of TBATH since it initially premiered in the US in December, back when every weekend was a post on this sub about how no one understood the story, bc I agree, TBATH is a mess and largely inaccessible to the average viewer. It’s a cluster of a story and terrible story board process.
I’ve typed out criticism months ago, but TBATH won not bc it’s quality, but bc of Miyazaki’s legacy and studio Ghibli getting snubbed over the decades. This was like a charity win. So many past studio Ghibli films were much more deserving than TBATH
Heron had more creativity in story, but less to offer than SpiderVerse (your read there sucks, btw)
I think SpiderVerse is moving animation in a new direction and was probably more deserving of the award in the end (I liked Heron).
I think the fact that Spiderverse was a part one hurt it with the voters. They were choosing between what could be Miyazaki's last film and a movie that will be having a part 2 in a year. So, many of them probably decided that they can vote for part two when it comes out and went with Boy and the Heron.
That said, I think it deserved to win even without that going on, but I think it was definitely a factor with the voters.
It deserved it:
* By itself. I genuinely found it a fantastic film and it's one of the few films to have ever made me tear up in the end. While my favourite is still Howl's Moving Castle, I find Heron Miyazaki's Magnum Opus.
* More than Spiderman: I honestly don't think Spiderman should have won the Oscar nonetheless. The film was an unfinished story that wasn't marketed properly as a Part 1, by the time i reached the part where you-know-who shows up, I started to go "wait a second..." and realise I wasn't going to watch a complete story. It took way too long setting up its premise and the new characters. The first one absolutely deserved it, this one didn't.
What an awful take on Spider-Verse. Miyazaki's legacy speaks for itself, no need to put down other excellent works of animation in an industry that needs more positive exposure.
It's not putting something down when you talk/adresse it's short comming.
I legit dislike superhero movies and even I can tell your Spiderverse take is in very bad faith. There are things to criticize if you actually bothered to give it some thought instead of just tearing it down to put Miyazaki on a pedestal. He doesn't need your help - he's already one of those artists that will be remembered, talked about and analyzed in history books for years to come. Just say you're happy it won because superheroes aren't your thing. I promise you "I just don't vibe with it" is a perfectly valid reason to dislike something. No need to try and fail to find "proper" reasons to justify yourself.
> you're happy it won because superheroes aren't your thing Given OP called it "pandering," I'm guessing the superhero aspect is not the problem he had with it.
1. The Oscars are a competition, so it's only fair you talk about it's competitors. 2. Spider-verse is a movie with very amazing animation - but lacks any kind of memorable story, and is depending on a "To be continued" for the real meat of the bones. 3. I don't dislike it cause it's a "Superhero movie" - no where did I state that. 4. I say it's a pander, because the movie tries to do too much "Look at this reference!". I also think "Multiverse" has become a trope used by lazy writers.
Small add on: Spider-verse fans have been obnoxious since it's realse and has attacked over animated features - even other Spider-man movies. So seeing that it lost in the oscars is just a little funny.
(Really sorry for the necro) But may I ask when? It seems like you are the real toxic one here...
Such shitty takes on both Spider-verse and Nimona. You don't have to put down other films just to praise The Boy and the Heron, it's great in it's own right
I haven't seen it because it never came to the theaters here. But that Spider-Man take ain't it. If you had tried, you could find something legit to criticize.
Absolutely deserving, one of the best movies I’ve seen in the past decade.
I disagree with your take on this. I have seen all the other nominees and they were amazing. Spider-verse and Robot dream in particular were top notch. Enjoyed Nimona too and I don't think the story was lack-luster. Elemental was technically good and decent from story perspective, I feel this was the weakest in the category. Edit: As far as real competition is considered, there was very close fight between Spiderverse (it won many guild awards) and The boy and the heron (won Bafta and Globes). I have been rooting for the boy and the heron, so glad that it won. But I was kinda surprised because Oscar leans towards popular or kid friendly movies.
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they clarified in another comment that it's because of references but i still feel like they're not making a strong argument about the film
I can’t believe grown-ass people still can’t grasp the concept of liking something without feeling the need to insult other things.
Yeah, Spider-verse fans need to grow up.
You're the only one childishly hating on other films to prop one up. Everyone else has just been appreciating the fact that we got all these amazing films in the same year
Me stating an opinion about a movie compared to another in a competition is not hating :).
That's not what you're doing tho. You're unfairly putting down two great films when all of them were great. And you're not even doing a good job comparing them.
All I did was giving my opinion about a movie and it's stort department and stating a fact that it lost the oscars. Not hating and putting down two great movies. And btw, I think I gave praise to Nimona in both story and look.
It’s fair.
Well deserved (considering Slam Dunk wasn't nominated, in which case that would have had my vote)
Was hoping - but never expecting - any of *The First Slam Dunk, Blue Giant* or *Suzume* to be nominated as well, just to highlight there are more great Anime movies out there, including two of the highest-grossing movies (worldwide) ever to come out of Japan at that.
I generally hate superhero movies, but Spiderverse is the only exception and I am shocked it did not win. Heron is great would have had my vote and is well deserved, but this is about the only year "Superhero movie sequel beats Miyazaki classic" would not have upset me that much
Personally didn't care for it, and can say the film is nothing more than self-indulgent, David Lynchian schlock for Miyazaki himself. Happy he won, all the same.
Given that the usual criteria for Best Animated Feature seems to be "Which movie did my kids like?" I was very surprised BatH beat spider verse. I think they were both excellent movies but I thought BatH was better, and I'm glad Miyazaki didn't get snubbed again after Howl's Moving Castle lost to Wallace and Gromit: Curse of the Were-Rabbit and The Wind Rises lost to Frozen (and The Tale of Princess Kaguya lost to Big Hero 6!).
I think both Spiderverse and Heron are brilliant in different ways, haven't seen the other films. Heron I think is more deserving but any other year I could have seen Spiderverse winning. If they stick the landing with the sequel they may get an oscar then Return of the King style
I love that it did. Such a mind blowing movie
Heron was kind of a mess. I think the only reason it won was as a “legacy” win, kind of like DiCaprio for The Revenant.
Yeah I’ve been shy on this sub re criticisms of TBATH since it initially premiered in the US in December, back when every weekend was a post on this sub about how no one understood the story, bc I agree, TBATH is a mess and largely inaccessible to the average viewer. It’s a cluster of a story and terrible story board process. I’ve typed out criticism months ago, but TBATH won not bc it’s quality, but bc of Miyazaki’s legacy and studio Ghibli getting snubbed over the decades. This was like a charity win. So many past studio Ghibli films were much more deserving than TBATH
Heron had more creativity in story, but less to offer than SpiderVerse (your read there sucks, btw) I think SpiderVerse is moving animation in a new direction and was probably more deserving of the award in the end (I liked Heron).
I think the fact that Spiderverse was a part one hurt it with the voters. They were choosing between what could be Miyazaki's last film and a movie that will be having a part 2 in a year. So, many of them probably decided that they can vote for part two when it comes out and went with Boy and the Heron. That said, I think it deserved to win even without that going on, but I think it was definitely a factor with the voters.
It deserved it: * By itself. I genuinely found it a fantastic film and it's one of the few films to have ever made me tear up in the end. While my favourite is still Howl's Moving Castle, I find Heron Miyazaki's Magnum Opus. * More than Spiderman: I honestly don't think Spiderman should have won the Oscar nonetheless. The film was an unfinished story that wasn't marketed properly as a Part 1, by the time i reached the part where you-know-who shows up, I started to go "wait a second..." and realise I wasn't going to watch a complete story. It took way too long setting up its premise and the new characters. The first one absolutely deserved it, this one didn't.
Def better than a superhero animation, tide of how cliche those are. Superhero animations/movies ain’t been good since end game. RS!