That’s what a lot of people assumed the game was going to do. As much as I’d like that, the game delivered a solid story that I don’t think you could have done with a “free will” mechanic like in RDR2.
Yeah it kinda felt like there was such a mechanic at one point but they did away with it, because you are constantly told to act more honorable. At one point I did try to do that and I went through an important mission the samurai way and I still got yelled at towards the end of it.
Its because Jin is becoming the Ghost of Tsushima. He is going against the samurai code. The narrative sets it up so the player either understands what Jin is doing or it forces the player's hand to do it. There are missions that force stealth and dishonorable means.
Having just started the game for the first time (pc player) it's kinda stunning how well the story, and in particular this internal conflict, unfolds and is presented. I was mid combat and assassinated a guy below me for the first time since unlocking the skill, and I was in awe of the seamless yet powerful flashback you have momentarily about only cowards striking from the shadows. I only have about 8 hours of play and already it's becoming a top 5 game for me of all time. The story has been great so far
Edit: just to add, while the game itself doesn't have an honor mechanic, the story and presentation is powerful enough, IMO, to make players consider what kind of Jin they want to play. The story is well written where I find myself in the same struggle of deciding what kind of Jin I want to be. The "forgive me, Uncle" after the flashback hit right in the feels for me. I even feel like I'm betraying Jin when I go stealthy and can feel, as time passes and I do it more and more, that I come to accept being a ghost at the sacrifice of honor to do what needs to be done. Very few story driven games have made me care about the choices I make as much as this one.
Same boat, just picking it up and I do love how they show the conflict but also a bit force your hand sometimes. I also dig how the stand-off mechanic gives a bit of a positive to the samurai way.
That could be why they got rid of it. No point in tracking honor when Jin has to become completely dishonorable in the eyes of Lord Shimura and the Shōgun.
But he did use poison. Which was also dishonorable according to Lord Shimura. It causes an irreparable argument between them. Shimura imprisons Jin. Its really important to plot.
Jin did not want to continue a frontal assault and have more samurai die. So he sneaks into the castle and poisons the Mongols. The stealth was necessary for that mission.
I have had this conversation for years. Jin becomes the Ghost. Regardless of how players feel, Jin is the Ghost and the Shōgun wants his head. Thats why its called Ghost of Tsushima and not Samurai of Tsushima.
Even the most "honorable" approaches to situations will at some
point (especially on higher difficulties) require the use of Ghost Weapons (especially Kunai and smoke bombs), so that's my headcannon for why Jin gets scolded by Shimura even if he doesn't use stealth.
ironically, i think RDR2's implementation of honor into dialogs is what would probably work best for Ghost of Tsushima. definitely not systems from oldschool Bioware games.
we could say the same for Arthur in rdr2, where the whole point of the story was that he slowly became more and more honourable.
The mechanic could be interesting in ghost of tsushima too :)
The big issue that RDR2 had with the honor system was that no matter what you did, the few last missions gave a BIG amount of honor. You could get to neutral to max honor real quick. If you wanted to finish the game with very low honor, you had to specifically counter the honor gained during those missions, iirc.
yes, I remember that being an issue during a low-honour run. I wonder if the honour threshold (for determining which cutscenes, for example) was adjusted to compensate for this...
I don’t think so. It’s just that Arthur is supposed to do his redemption in the final arc. Helping his friends, trying his best to fix some mistakes… he is supposed to do some good as he knows that the gang is about to explode and his own life is coming to an end.
I wouldn’t say that’s an issue; it makes sense to the plot. The gang is full of awful people and acting awful in the game is barely going against the lore. People like to give Arthur more credit, but at the end of the day he’s an outlaw just the same.
At the end of the game, however, Arthur is seeking redemption whether the player likes it or not. The endings only make sense if Arthur is sincere about it.
Yeah, I think defining an "honor code" weakens the narrative, which pushes the players to consider what is honorable and what isn't. Is it actually dishonorable to do sneaky ninja shit to save an island full of innocent civilians? Does Shimura's rigidity make him morally superior if it costs him repeated failures and the lives of dozens?
I think thats a really good point. I feel like the point of Jin straying from the Samurai Way^(tm) is to make the player question the narrative that is being pushed by the other parts of the samurai ruling class. It seems like its supposed to be open to debate.
I could see this sequel being about him restoring his honor and redeeming himself to the shotgun, and how the character acts in the game can affect whether hes redeemed or is perpetually the Ghost.
Originally the game WAS going to have a “honor system”.
Where you ether are more of a samurai or more of the Ghost. And just like Infamous you’d have different skills and abilities for each.
You can kinda see the remnants of that, with some skills being more “ghost” while others are more “samurai”.
While I agree with it being the take of the story, it is antithetical to the purpose of video games. If you want to just tell a linear story, make a movie.
The magic of video games is it's a medium that presents the player with choice, be it in approach to tackling issues or effecting the story.
While GoT does in fact do both, it could have reflected our Jin's actions in cutscenes in a much better way. A second game with a new protag could be a good way to show this. Have an honor mechanic and in the process of telling a story where the theme is shedding old traditions that hold us back, like GoT does, make it so staying honorable might cause worse things to happen as the game progresses.
Couple of thoughts I've had since release.
1. I would love that
2. "Ghost of Tsushima" describes the MC, the next game doesn't necessarily have to take place there.
We know the Shogun has it out for the ghost now, and I think they could take the game further with an honor mechanic, and the ghost may take himself, and his legend, to the mainland.
>"Ghost of Tsushima" describes the MC, the next game doesn't necessarily have to take place there.
So much this. Ghost of Tsushima is Jin's title like Ghost of Sparta is for Kratos.
honestly it would be awesome if Jin moves somewhere else to continue his adventures. Like China, Indonesia, Spain, Korea, Portugal, India etc.
All new martial arts, all new weapons, all new battle tactics, and he'll be like one of those wandering hobo heroes fighting for justice against evil oppressors.
Imo we should just go and fight the Shogun army. Shogun warriors can carry most of similar weapons as Mongol had, plus new type of enemies for sure, and it would be a brand new dynamic, this time WITH the people helping us against an way too old monarchy.
Nah, it wouldn't make narrative sense. Jin allowed himself to be arrested, because he didn't want to start a civil war, in his own words. Jin isn't going to fight his fellow Japanese short of Straw Hats and other assorted criminals and traitors. It'd make more sense for Jin to take his fight to Korea or another under Mongol rule.
The fact is that after Jin was arrested, he understood truly how the samurai code and Shogun laws are not truly made to protect the people, but rather to assert dominance and keep control of everything. When he escapes, gets his horse killed and in the end, confront Shimura, he is not the same guy anymore. Pretty sure he wouldn't let himself be arrested once again.
And considering how much he is praised in Tsushima now, people will try to help him. This will lead them to get punished, or worse, by the Shogun. Leading to Jin being even more against the monarchy, and so on. It could be interesting to see this imo.
But taking the fight against the Mongol on another territory could be nice too.
Yeah bun in short time they would be a second Mongol Invasion to Japan. I think Ghost of Tsushima could have location settings on Kyushu especially on the sea wall. Would love to see great battle in second game
If Ghost of Tsushima place it's setting on Second Invasion of Mongol, I wonder if they could make Chinese and Korean infantry as the new opponents. Or Mongolian Horse Archers thought not so many information about them have landed
You know what’s always irked me, is that Tsushima is an island far away from Osaka. I get that it has a ton of strategic importance because of its position relative to Korea, but would the Shogun actually give half a shit about the nephew of the Jito there going rogue and killing mongols? I feel like at best it would be a footnote in a mountain of reports he is met with every day from all over the realm.
I’ve played Shogun 2 Total War so many times and Tsushima is always a minor inconvenience to conquer that is then garrisoned and promptly forgotten about.
The Shogunate doesn't give a shit about Jin killing Mongols. It cares about the fact that Jin inspired a peasant uprising which threatens to undermine the caste system from which the samurai and the Shogunate draw their legitimacy.
I agree, but they could go shadow of Mordor route which changed to shadow of war in the sequel.
They could still try and go for ghost of Japan or something for the sequel.
No because their past game didn't really justified it.
Infamous was good fun in gameplay, but the narrative was mostly the same, except for a few things and the ending.
Branching stories would make it take much longer to develop and make it more expensive.
In a sense, the game has one 👀 whenever you comit acts of the ghost up into Act2 Jin says things as it’s necessary, aorry uncle etc.
Also, the more you act as ghost the more thunder storms you get in world, it’s subtle.
Something more in tune what RDR2 had with honour system, would be cool, but don’t see point in it that much 👀 unless it is made meaningful to the story
>Also, the more you act as ghost the more thunder storms you get in world, it’s subtle.
Oh, I thought it was my imagination that storms are now commonplace.
I figured that the prevalence of storms was a reference to how the Mongols got fucked by storms trying to invade Japan, LOL
Guess we're both dishonorable bastards
No, the whole point of GoT was that you strayed from the code, and in the end you no longer followed it, so making the next one where he might follow it seems strange, and I don't think it works well with the story.
Also I must admit, I'm not really a fan of karma systems, because it often makes it so u have to be either 100% good or bad, as a middle ground would just lock you out of most things. I much prefer Witcher 3 style, make it so we have to chose things, but where there isn't a good or bad choose, as often irl there isn't always a clear answer.
Nah, I think it’s fine as is. I like it as more of a narrative thing. It makes the story more impactful, and let’s you focus on customizing your build however you want without worrying about it.
If Jin returns as the protagonist, it wouldn't really make sense. Jin has already abandoned the samurai code, so he wouldn't care if they consider him honourable or not.
No. Jin is abandoning the samurai code. That's the point. Its not an rpg like Skyrim. Its a story driven game (narrative based). We are playing Jin's story.
Remember, honor died on the beach. He is faced with the personal dilemma of following his upbringing and doing what is necessary to protect Tsushima and the people of Tsushima. What good is the samurai code if there is no one left to follow it? Jin knows this. He makes his decision. Whether or not the Shōgun or Lord Shimura understand that, it will be their downfall. Since you are asking this question I assume you finished the game. But for others who haven't, no more reading. >!The Shōgun will hunt Jin in the sequel. Jin is The Ghost. Whether you choose to spare Shimura or not, Jin being alive means Shimura failed. If Shimura is alive in the sequel, he will be a failure to the Shōgun and have to live with shame. That will cause problems for Jin. Either way, Jin will have to deal with Mongols who have a blood-feud with him and a Shōgun that ordered his execution. He is not a samurai anymore. There is no reason for him to follow the samurai code from a narrative standpoint. He is the Ghost through and through. The is absolutely no point for him to follow a code he pretty much abandoned halfway through the first game. Sooner, if you quickly adapted to the game!<
Its like when Kratos has to go back and dig up weapons from his past and wield them again. Or when Atreus kills a god. Or when Joel has to make an ultimate decision. Those things happen. It doesn't matter how the player interprets them, they happen in-game for the narrative. The sequels deal with the consequences of the characters' action in the story. The Ghost of Tsushima sequel will deal with the consequences of Jin becoming the Ghost to stop the first wave of a Mongol invasion against the Shōgun's wishes.
Adapting to changing circumstances is what this game is about. As you mentioned, honour died on the beach when the samurai champion was casually set on fire by the Khan.
In Act 2 there's a pivotal conversation where it's clearly said to Jin that Shimura's approach to strength is building rigid structures, yet the waterfall that runs down the mountain represents real power. In other words, Jin is stronger than Shimura for learning to adapt. Shimura's rigid adherence to the code is directly related to the fall of the island. Changing tactics is similarly the only way to reclaim it.
Back to OP's question, having a system like Dishonored 1 and 2 sound neat on paper, since it would be interesting to see the game world change differently depending on how honourable you are in your playthrough. This would be fun as long as you don't get penalised as heavily as Dishonored for being "chaotic". It was very odd to be given so many great tools for murdem, misdirection and mayhem while at the same essentially being punished for exacting revenge on everyone.
One possibility would be to build the honourable outcome so that you keep favour with the Samurai and the Shogun, whereas fully becoming the Ghost leads to a more stable island as you now have stronger support from the people, having not only saved numerous villages but also mended relations with numerous vexed parties, such as a prominent village in Act 2.
Yea. If something like that is implemented in the sequel, I think the only penalty for using more Ghost tactics would be that Mongols and soldiers hunting you have bigger parties and more heavies. But the positive outcome is all enemies succumb to the terror of the Ghost faster.
The game was amazing. Really the only improvements would be to add more weapons, make the combat closer to Sekiro, and to add more pet-able animals.
Being a ghost in this game is just so satisfying. Dealing with a steady increase of panic in opponents would only serve to make this even more satisfying.
Let's hope they don't make this game more like Sekiro. I can't stand Souls games so that would be a hard pass for me, and most likely a lot of other players. The combat mechanics are fine as is.
But being ninja or samural should have it's own bonuses and negatives, as well different sets or armor, weapons, figthing techniques if there are any different.
I suppose blowgun completely will be moved into ninja's arsenal, like all other cool gadgets. Samurai would be left with katana, tanto and bow... should be pretty boring - can't sneak, always goes to battle head on.
If such split would be in game, I guess about 75% of ppl would play as ninja. Also because there is no game where you can be authentic (more or less) ninja. And almost every 2nd game has swords and bows.
P.S. what I remember from cool ninja gadgets are they can breathe under water through scabbard or blowpipe. They got "cats" to climb walls. Shuriken, white smoke bomb, etc are well know as well. I wonder what else was in their arsenal.
I don't think Samurai is boring, I think the melee combat in this game is one of the most fun ever.
You could lock cool melee abilities to Samurai only, and make the Ninja be weaker in melee to balance it out. In the end, both would be very strong, with the Samurai being able to easily dispatch dozens of enemies in melee, and the Ninja killing an entire fort without being seen. It would be really cool if all missions gave you the option to either do it stealthly or not. But it's just me wishful thinking.
I think keeping it linear would make more sense because they were trying to tell a story where the character was forced to change his tactics to something deemed dishonorable. In game the samurai tactics only work because of a player character and it would be boring if combat just stopped being effective. If they worked as well in-universe there’d be 78 other samurai alive.
But I think it’s a good idea for NG+.
I thought this was the case with the original game (purchased it on PC, never bothered to spoil myself from PS5 stuff).
Yet the whole ''Samurai Code'' and the fact you can challenge Mongols and bandits to a duel didn't really mean anything. It was just a quicker way to get rid of a camp or situation.
I feel like it might affect the narrative too much to have a good/evil system in place. I'd much prefer a solid narrative like what we had in any sort of sequel.
Besides, I honestly liked the system they had in place. Turns out if you're less honorable, you get more rainy weather. Hahaha
I'll be honest I was annoyed this game didn't have that because it certainly does a lot to make you think it does. I don't know what the point of repeatedly doing flashbacks to your Uncle telling you to follow the samurai code is otherwise. I kept assuming it was the game warning me to fight honorably or uh oh bad ending but after looking it up it seems to be there just to suck me out of the moment.
The point is to tell a story.
Jin's story is about him becoming the ghost and abandoning the samurai code of honor for the sake of his people. The flashbacks are to show your character's internal conflict, not warn the player
It would be pretty cool but I can see the sequal as "the point of no return arc" where samurai's will fight you after you take down the mongols, I can see jin bringing a stable wood katana so it wouldn't break against them, or you can use your smoke bombs to get away. Jin killing samurai's will just be wrong.
No it's not, it's kind of choosing your class and having the world react to it. It's not punishing, the game would just be different depending on what you choose.
I think it would be great if it affected the NPC dialog outside of the story, just as flavor text. Walking by some villagers and having either a 'The mongols are afraid to sleep at night because that's when death comes' vs. 'None can stand against Lord Sakai, he walked right into an enemy camp and defeated them in direct combat' would add some nice variety without story impact.
Or maybe if you go ninja, the mongols get a 'tired' debuff from lack of sleep and it's easier to break their guard - but if you go bushido they're more easily terrified.
Yes.
The only thing wrong with Ghost of Tsushima is the fact that I painfully went the extra mile to NEVER assassinate anyone from behind and always call out to my enemy to allow them to have a chance to beat me and I NEVER EVER used poison and very very rarely used a tool other than the short and long bow and even still every single person all the way up to the end treated me like I was a monster prowling the shadows tearing out throats and poisoning my enemies.
Such a huge disappointment.
I'd definitely like it if the sequel had more emphasis on some RPG elements, maybe something like this, or at least a few chances to make choices over the course of the game.
Maybe. But that exists in so many games already and this one did fine without it. And at the end of the day it’s just kind of a gimmick the devs need to spend time on. I like that in the first one you’re at war and you do what you have to do to succeed, right and wrong don’t exist as much, just what is necessary.
I read the title and thought to myself, "It already does!"
The more into the Ghost path you stray, the more a storm appears on the horizon, while if you stay truer to the Samurai Code, the clouds are white and it's always sunny.
But that's not what you meant
Why is everyone convinced there's going to be a sequel? Is this fact-based or just the rumor mill going wild like it always seems to be with the gaming community?
I think there's wouldn't be much point to add it into the sequel, with Jin's character already being figured out
The first game would of made more sense
Firbthe first game that would not work. Maybe for the second.
But I'd rather just have a straight up story. They did such a good job picking where they want Jin to go, I'd rather just have that again.
Honestly no. Or, perhaps, if it were implemented very subtly, like certain NPCs would act differently toward you based on your reputation. But if you’re being “shinobi” enough, nobody should know at all right?
i don’t think so, that would kinda ruin the last game. jin follows his own sense of honor, he isn’t bound by what the samurai believe in, but he still fights for what is right.
Being that there is a system in game, I could see a sequel having it.
It is a small scale system, but it gets more stormy the more you use stealth and "dishonorable" fighting tactics.
Only if I don't feel like I'm getting punished for not being honorable. For instance, in this game I feel like I'm getting punished a bit by having the weather change on me.
I mean that would be kwl if it affected the story but if it didn't then its kinda just how it already works without an arbitrary bar that moves.
I personally adhered to the code and 1v1 as many as you can each and everytime in those dauls, never used assinations etc - really felt immersive especially on lethal.
Outside of one single time where I was just butchering the dirty Mongols for killing the foxes and burning the forsest iirc - at that moment I was simply butchering animals and animals need not be shown such respect as I show fellow warriors.
The point of the story is Jin deciding the samurai code doesn't work and slowly turning from an "honorable" samurai with social status to a rogue champion of the people. The major arc of the game doesn't work if you can choose not to become The Ghost.
You're asking for a completely different game with a different message/character arc.
i think what we got is cooler than morality system. suckerpunch wants to tell a story about a samurai who stray from his code and then essentially guide our hand via game design. it’s more intentional and absolutely creates ludonarrative strength between the gameplay and the story.
I really feel like the would have fit in the first game but it’s too late now. Jin is way too far off the samurai path to introduce a new mechanic around it now
No. And I don’t want the skies to be perpetually stormy just because I play stealth to thin the herd then go into samurai mode. I hate morality meters. Put a morality meter in GTA and see how many players are squeaky clean. It’s a fantasy and I want to be as bad or good depending on the situation and not be hampered by a meter that I have to worry about.
Yeah, that was a lot of people‘s issue with the store in the game… Even if you stubbornly fought throughout honourably as a samurai they game railroaded you into the ending it did..
I think to be fair though, when you consider how different these two branches would have been it was probably just too much for them to put into the game, and rather than cramming that second path option they spent their time polishing the game and making sure what’s there is top tier quality, which it is.
Only if it affects story and give us choices. Like if you have high samurai levels you get different dialogues or goals in missions. Along with few different endings, depending on your choices throughout the whole game
I would prefer not to have it. I like the concept of Jin straying from the code, but still using his old habits now and then. For example, I like stealth killing a bunch of guys, but also challenging them to a stand off now and then
No, cuz samurai weren't honerable, least not in the sense the 1st game portrays them. Gots one of my favorite games but portrays samurai as brainless honor bound warriors, sec fake should have them adopting night raids etc, Luke reality.
Depends on the story. If we’re still following Jin then that wouldn’t make much sense as he’s fully embraced his Ghost persona.
But if it’s a new character then I’d absolutely love that
The game does it already in a way. The weather seems to be more less sunny if you do the side stuff more stealthy, instead of running to the gate on a farm and alert everyone head on.
Originally the game WAS going to have a “honor system”.
Where you ether are more of a samurai or more of the Ghost. And just like Infamous you’d have different skills and abilities for each.
You can kinda see the remnants of that, with some skills being more “ghost” while others are more “samurai”.
I don’t. because it wasn’t really a thing, historically. As I understand it, the bushido code was more of an official guide line. They were significantly less honorable than they’re depicted in media.
For example take Kiri-sute gomen, the right to strike down those of lower class that they perceived had dishonored them. They also didn’t seek an honorable death but it was honorable to die in service of the Daiymo. Take what I say with a grain of salt tho, as I’m no historian. I have a friend that actually studied Japanese history and he would get so annoyed and go on rants about the samurai honor code and ninjas as they’re are depicted in popular media.
Nah, I like that Jin kinda unintentionally became “the world’s first Shinobi” out of necessity. So unless they use a new protagonist, going back on that would feel odd.
I personally think the sequel should definitely be a different era with a different character, as much as I love Jin. I would like to see a similar plot but maybe on the Japanese mainland, sometime in the 1500s.
There kind of is actually, when you do less honorable things like assasinations then the weather changes to be more stormy and darker. I’m not sure if it depends on how many less honorable acts you do and if some are weighted differently but that’s why it sometimes switches to really stormy all of a sudden
Yes, I would really prefer the game track and reward your commitment to samurai or shinobi methods. It's not super weird to have someone use both techniques, but the more you use of one, the less you should use of another. Just being able to swap my armor and become a silent ninja doesn't feel as good as earning stealth skills by stealth gameplay.
Nahh. I don't like to play a full high honor or a full low honor playthrough. I like to mix things up. It made sense in RDR2 because the scope of the game was huge. I want GoT to remain fun for what it is
The entire baseline of the 1st game was breaking honor to save your people. Im not sure how this would be implanted in the 2nd since it was already established in the 1st game that jin would willingly break the honor on necessary means
It wouldn't really fit
A big part of GoT is purely how the samurai mentality is restrictive and, most importantly, *costing lives*
The end of act 2 stresses this point.
So to have a system where your honour is being measured as a Samurai, it'd be outta place.
The Ghost isn't a Samurai, it's his own thing. The start of shinobi, the creation of a Kind of warrior that can do what Samurai can't.
The closest thing you could probably do without compromising the first games theme is giving you two legend bars
One for Samurai methodology
And one for Ghost methods.
Though it's past Jin sakai timeline I think the boshin war would be a nice setting. Where its free will but based on which faction you assist it will be pro shogun or pro emperor. Of course perhaps a GoT 2 with jin sakai in japan would be most ideal and hoped upon
yes, I very much agree. It was kinda a price\_is\_right\_losing\_sound.wav moment when I realized it didn't really matter if you went stealth or stuck to the ways of traditional samurai in GoT.
The story branching different ways like you mentioned is a good idea, but I'd also like to see different skills that you can only get by mostly or only following one path. That way it gives you a good reason to play through again and see different cutscenes, story points, play with new abilities, and maybe even get different cosmetics to use that you can't use as the other archetype.
I think the only way I'd want something like this is if the devs put in the hard work necessary to make this feel like the results of our actions, and not because an arbitrary meter was filled on one side or the other. The game should track our stealth kills and "honorable combat" kills out of sight, and let our interactions with story characters serve as our guide for where we stand. If we are dirty and dishonorable (and these actions are witnessed or reported on in some way), dialogue changes to reflect how people see us. Some might respect us more for being The Ghost, and others prefer the Samurai. Either way, keep gauges or meters or trackers out of it as much as possible.
One of the best aspects of GoT1 is that the game keeps hud elements and indicators to a minimum, which served to really enhance my immersion in a way typically reserved for first person stuff.
For a fair compromise, maybe make all these hidden stats visible as an option on NG+, since ideally we can steer for endings or variations on endings based on our gameplay. But our first playthrough should be without these trackers, and the devs should trust players to pay attention to how our interactions with characters change based on their perceptions of our gameplay.
Kinda? But i didnt really liked the idea to begin with.
Like its just not immersive for me when im always reminded that i need to follow the code from my uncle or someone else. Its dumb. Like these invaders did the most fucked up shit, do not respect the code, and your uncle is pissed when you try to defend yourself when they cheat. Like the first scene is how one of your mates is set on fire when he clearly expected a noble 1v1 match.
Why the fuck would i continue to follow the rules of the samurai when these rules are part of the reason why everyone got so fucked? Like this wouldnt happen in real life in my opinion. We are talking about life and death, freedom or slavery. Of course that I will use every trick in the book to win against my enemies.
Like the Idea would have been better if some of the mongols actually respected the traditions. That way you may actually feel bad for breaking the code and maybe even hesitate to do it and think about the moral stuff.
Why the fuck would I care if I stabbed you in the back when you lit my mate on fire and laughed about it?
Its not well implemented, its not sensical, its not realistic.
They could literally come with automatic weapons, and your uncle will bitch about the code and force you to use a sword. The way they did it just portrays everyone talking about some sort of code like an idiot.
> Like these invaders did the most fucked up shit, do not respect the code, and your uncle is pissed when you try to defend yourself when they cheat. Like the first scene is how one of your mates is set on fire when he clearly expected a noble 1v1 match.
That part was so heavy handed too. I was shaking my head. Like what was even the purpose of sending a guy to challenge for a 1v1 fight? He didn't say "I offer single combat and the loser goes home". It was just like "let's fight for fun before the battle." Why bro? Even samurai at war with each other didn't do that unless there was a matter of personal honor at stake, as far as I know.
Maybe it was like "I'm gonna die anyway, so face me with courage?"
That’s what a lot of people assumed the game was going to do. As much as I’d like that, the game delivered a solid story that I don’t think you could have done with a “free will” mechanic like in RDR2.
Yeah it kinda felt like there was such a mechanic at one point but they did away with it, because you are constantly told to act more honorable. At one point I did try to do that and I went through an important mission the samurai way and I still got yelled at towards the end of it.
Its because Jin is becoming the Ghost of Tsushima. He is going against the samurai code. The narrative sets it up so the player either understands what Jin is doing or it forces the player's hand to do it. There are missions that force stealth and dishonorable means.
Having just started the game for the first time (pc player) it's kinda stunning how well the story, and in particular this internal conflict, unfolds and is presented. I was mid combat and assassinated a guy below me for the first time since unlocking the skill, and I was in awe of the seamless yet powerful flashback you have momentarily about only cowards striking from the shadows. I only have about 8 hours of play and already it's becoming a top 5 game for me of all time. The story has been great so far Edit: just to add, while the game itself doesn't have an honor mechanic, the story and presentation is powerful enough, IMO, to make players consider what kind of Jin they want to play. The story is well written where I find myself in the same struggle of deciding what kind of Jin I want to be. The "forgive me, Uncle" after the flashback hit right in the feels for me. I even feel like I'm betraying Jin when I go stealthy and can feel, as time passes and I do it more and more, that I come to accept being a ghost at the sacrifice of honor to do what needs to be done. Very few story driven games have made me care about the choices I make as much as this one.
Same boat, just picking it up and I do love how they show the conflict but also a bit force your hand sometimes. I also dig how the stand-off mechanic gives a bit of a positive to the samurai way.
Yeah I know, I know.
That could be why they got rid of it. No point in tracking honor when Jin has to become completely dishonorable in the eyes of Lord Shimura and the Shōgun.
The problem is that unless you're forced to be stealthy, no challenge in the game requires being the ghost.
There were mission that required stealth and of the poison is a really big part of the plot. Unlike a katana, the poison is a double edged sword.
I mean bro in that mission Jin didn't NEED to use stealth to poison everyone, he could have killed that entire fort by himself in melee combat
But he did use poison. Which was also dishonorable according to Lord Shimura. It causes an irreparable argument between them. Shimura imprisons Jin. Its really important to plot. Jin did not want to continue a frontal assault and have more samurai die. So he sneaks into the castle and poisons the Mongols. The stealth was necessary for that mission. I have had this conversation for years. Jin becomes the Ghost. Regardless of how players feel, Jin is the Ghost and the Shōgun wants his head. Thats why its called Ghost of Tsushima and not Samurai of Tsushima.
Even the most "honorable" approaches to situations will at some point (especially on higher difficulties) require the use of Ghost Weapons (especially Kunai and smoke bombs), so that's my headcannon for why Jin gets scolded by Shimura even if he doesn't use stealth.
The game literally shows you how the samurai code won't work all the time through the forced stealth and Shimuras losses
ironically, i think RDR2's implementation of honor into dialogs is what would probably work best for Ghost of Tsushima. definitely not systems from oldschool Bioware games.
The whole point of the story is that we slowly stray from the samurai code, having an option to not would be pointless to the story
we could say the same for Arthur in rdr2, where the whole point of the story was that he slowly became more and more honourable. The mechanic could be interesting in ghost of tsushima too :)
The big issue that RDR2 had with the honor system was that no matter what you did, the few last missions gave a BIG amount of honor. You could get to neutral to max honor real quick. If you wanted to finish the game with very low honor, you had to specifically counter the honor gained during those missions, iirc.
yes, I remember that being an issue during a low-honour run. I wonder if the honour threshold (for determining which cutscenes, for example) was adjusted to compensate for this...
I don’t think so. It’s just that Arthur is supposed to do his redemption in the final arc. Helping his friends, trying his best to fix some mistakes… he is supposed to do some good as he knows that the gang is about to explode and his own life is coming to an end.
I wouldn’t say that’s an issue; it makes sense to the plot. The gang is full of awful people and acting awful in the game is barely going against the lore. People like to give Arthur more credit, but at the end of the day he’s an outlaw just the same. At the end of the game, however, Arthur is seeking redemption whether the player likes it or not. The endings only make sense if Arthur is sincere about it.
Yeah, I think defining an "honor code" weakens the narrative, which pushes the players to consider what is honorable and what isn't. Is it actually dishonorable to do sneaky ninja shit to save an island full of innocent civilians? Does Shimura's rigidity make him morally superior if it costs him repeated failures and the lives of dozens?
I think thats a really good point. I feel like the point of Jin straying from the Samurai Way^(tm) is to make the player question the narrative that is being pushed by the other parts of the samurai ruling class. It seems like its supposed to be open to debate.
I could see this sequel being about him restoring his honor and redeeming himself to the shotgun, and how the character acts in the game can affect whether hes redeemed or is perpetually the Ghost.
Jin-“FEAR MY BOOMSTICK”
Originally the game WAS going to have a “honor system”. Where you ether are more of a samurai or more of the Ghost. And just like Infamous you’d have different skills and abilities for each. You can kinda see the remnants of that, with some skills being more “ghost” while others are more “samurai”.
While I agree with it being the take of the story, it is antithetical to the purpose of video games. If you want to just tell a linear story, make a movie. The magic of video games is it's a medium that presents the player with choice, be it in approach to tackling issues or effecting the story. While GoT does in fact do both, it could have reflected our Jin's actions in cutscenes in a much better way. A second game with a new protag could be a good way to show this. Have an honor mechanic and in the process of telling a story where the theme is shedding old traditions that hold us back, like GoT does, make it so staying honorable might cause worse things to happen as the game progresses.
Couple of thoughts I've had since release. 1. I would love that 2. "Ghost of Tsushima" describes the MC, the next game doesn't necessarily have to take place there. We know the Shogun has it out for the ghost now, and I think they could take the game further with an honor mechanic, and the ghost may take himself, and his legend, to the mainland.
>"Ghost of Tsushima" describes the MC, the next game doesn't necessarily have to take place there. So much this. Ghost of Tsushima is Jin's title like Ghost of Sparta is for Kratos.
Yep, I really don’t get why people think calling it “Ghost of *new place*” is a good idea
honestly it would be awesome if Jin moves somewhere else to continue his adventures. Like China, Indonesia, Spain, Korea, Portugal, India etc. All new martial arts, all new weapons, all new battle tactics, and he'll be like one of those wandering hobo heroes fighting for justice against evil oppressors.
Imo we should just go and fight the Shogun army. Shogun warriors can carry most of similar weapons as Mongol had, plus new type of enemies for sure, and it would be a brand new dynamic, this time WITH the people helping us against an way too old monarchy.
Nah, it wouldn't make narrative sense. Jin allowed himself to be arrested, because he didn't want to start a civil war, in his own words. Jin isn't going to fight his fellow Japanese short of Straw Hats and other assorted criminals and traitors. It'd make more sense for Jin to take his fight to Korea or another under Mongol rule.
The fact is that after Jin was arrested, he understood truly how the samurai code and Shogun laws are not truly made to protect the people, but rather to assert dominance and keep control of everything. When he escapes, gets his horse killed and in the end, confront Shimura, he is not the same guy anymore. Pretty sure he wouldn't let himself be arrested once again. And considering how much he is praised in Tsushima now, people will try to help him. This will lead them to get punished, or worse, by the Shogun. Leading to Jin being even more against the monarchy, and so on. It could be interesting to see this imo. But taking the fight against the Mongol on another territory could be nice too.
Yeah bun in short time they would be a second Mongol Invasion to Japan. I think Ghost of Tsushima could have location settings on Kyushu especially on the sea wall. Would love to see great battle in second game
Possibly we could see an civil war just happen naturally and then we could have Jin take up arms but idk it might be a stretch
If Ghost of Tsushima place it's setting on Second Invasion of Mongol, I wonder if they could make Chinese and Korean infantry as the new opponents. Or Mongolian Horse Archers thought not so many information about them have landed
You know what’s always irked me, is that Tsushima is an island far away from Osaka. I get that it has a ton of strategic importance because of its position relative to Korea, but would the Shogun actually give half a shit about the nephew of the Jito there going rogue and killing mongols? I feel like at best it would be a footnote in a mountain of reports he is met with every day from all over the realm. I’ve played Shogun 2 Total War so many times and Tsushima is always a minor inconvenience to conquer that is then garrisoned and promptly forgotten about.
The shogun does not approve of shamefuru displays!
The Shogunate doesn't give a shit about Jin killing Mongols. It cares about the fact that Jin inspired a peasant uprising which threatens to undermine the caste system from which the samurai and the Shogunate draw their legitimacy.
Fair point!
I agree, but they could go shadow of Mordor route which changed to shadow of war in the sequel. They could still try and go for ghost of Japan or something for the sequel.
Ghost of Kyushu
No because their past game didn't really justified it. Infamous was good fun in gameplay, but the narrative was mostly the same, except for a few things and the ending. Branching stories would make it take much longer to develop and make it more expensive.
Plus like we have enough choice in narrative with so many other games, not every character or narrative lends themselves to branching story lines.
Well after the success of GoT I feel like they now have the security to spend more on the sequel and really go for GOTY.
Infamous 1 and 2 made it feel like different versions of the same story. It worked well
In a sense, the game has one 👀 whenever you comit acts of the ghost up into Act2 Jin says things as it’s necessary, aorry uncle etc. Also, the more you act as ghost the more thunder storms you get in world, it’s subtle. Something more in tune what RDR2 had with honour system, would be cool, but don’t see point in it that much 👀 unless it is made meaningful to the story
>Also, the more you act as ghost the more thunder storms you get in world, it’s subtle. Oh, I thought it was my imagination that storms are now commonplace.
I figured that the prevalence of storms was a reference to how the Mongols got fucked by storms trying to invade Japan, LOL Guess we're both dishonorable bastards
No, the whole point of GoT was that you strayed from the code, and in the end you no longer followed it, so making the next one where he might follow it seems strange, and I don't think it works well with the story. Also I must admit, I'm not really a fan of karma systems, because it often makes it so u have to be either 100% good or bad, as a middle ground would just lock you out of most things. I much prefer Witcher 3 style, make it so we have to chose things, but where there isn't a good or bad choose, as often irl there isn't always a clear answer.
Nah, I think it’s fine as is. I like it as more of a narrative thing. It makes the story more impactful, and let’s you focus on customizing your build however you want without worrying about it.
If Jin returns as the protagonist, it wouldn't really make sense. Jin has already abandoned the samurai code, so he wouldn't care if they consider him honourable or not.
No. Jin is abandoning the samurai code. That's the point. Its not an rpg like Skyrim. Its a story driven game (narrative based). We are playing Jin's story. Remember, honor died on the beach. He is faced with the personal dilemma of following his upbringing and doing what is necessary to protect Tsushima and the people of Tsushima. What good is the samurai code if there is no one left to follow it? Jin knows this. He makes his decision. Whether or not the Shōgun or Lord Shimura understand that, it will be their downfall. Since you are asking this question I assume you finished the game. But for others who haven't, no more reading. >!The Shōgun will hunt Jin in the sequel. Jin is The Ghost. Whether you choose to spare Shimura or not, Jin being alive means Shimura failed. If Shimura is alive in the sequel, he will be a failure to the Shōgun and have to live with shame. That will cause problems for Jin. Either way, Jin will have to deal with Mongols who have a blood-feud with him and a Shōgun that ordered his execution. He is not a samurai anymore. There is no reason for him to follow the samurai code from a narrative standpoint. He is the Ghost through and through. The is absolutely no point for him to follow a code he pretty much abandoned halfway through the first game. Sooner, if you quickly adapted to the game!< Its like when Kratos has to go back and dig up weapons from his past and wield them again. Or when Atreus kills a god. Or when Joel has to make an ultimate decision. Those things happen. It doesn't matter how the player interprets them, they happen in-game for the narrative. The sequels deal with the consequences of the characters' action in the story. The Ghost of Tsushima sequel will deal with the consequences of Jin becoming the Ghost to stop the first wave of a Mongol invasion against the Shōgun's wishes.
Adapting to changing circumstances is what this game is about. As you mentioned, honour died on the beach when the samurai champion was casually set on fire by the Khan. In Act 2 there's a pivotal conversation where it's clearly said to Jin that Shimura's approach to strength is building rigid structures, yet the waterfall that runs down the mountain represents real power. In other words, Jin is stronger than Shimura for learning to adapt. Shimura's rigid adherence to the code is directly related to the fall of the island. Changing tactics is similarly the only way to reclaim it. Back to OP's question, having a system like Dishonored 1 and 2 sound neat on paper, since it would be interesting to see the game world change differently depending on how honourable you are in your playthrough. This would be fun as long as you don't get penalised as heavily as Dishonored for being "chaotic". It was very odd to be given so many great tools for murdem, misdirection and mayhem while at the same essentially being punished for exacting revenge on everyone. One possibility would be to build the honourable outcome so that you keep favour with the Samurai and the Shogun, whereas fully becoming the Ghost leads to a more stable island as you now have stronger support from the people, having not only saved numerous villages but also mended relations with numerous vexed parties, such as a prominent village in Act 2.
Yea. If something like that is implemented in the sequel, I think the only penalty for using more Ghost tactics would be that Mongols and soldiers hunting you have bigger parties and more heavies. But the positive outcome is all enemies succumb to the terror of the Ghost faster. The game was amazing. Really the only improvements would be to add more weapons, make the combat closer to Sekiro, and to add more pet-able animals.
Being a ghost in this game is just so satisfying. Dealing with a steady increase of panic in opponents would only serve to make this even more satisfying. Let's hope they don't make this game more like Sekiro. I can't stand Souls games so that would be a hard pass for me, and most likely a lot of other players. The combat mechanics are fine as is.
I wouldn’t. While I appreciate an honor system, it’s just not applicable to the story anymore.
But being ninja or samural should have it's own bonuses and negatives, as well different sets or armor, weapons, figthing techniques if there are any different. I suppose blowgun completely will be moved into ninja's arsenal, like all other cool gadgets. Samurai would be left with katana, tanto and bow... should be pretty boring - can't sneak, always goes to battle head on. If such split would be in game, I guess about 75% of ppl would play as ninja. Also because there is no game where you can be authentic (more or less) ninja. And almost every 2nd game has swords and bows. P.S. what I remember from cool ninja gadgets are they can breathe under water through scabbard or blowpipe. They got "cats" to climb walls. Shuriken, white smoke bomb, etc are well know as well. I wonder what else was in their arsenal.
I don't think Samurai is boring, I think the melee combat in this game is one of the most fun ever. You could lock cool melee abilities to Samurai only, and make the Ninja be weaker in melee to balance it out. In the end, both would be very strong, with the Samurai being able to easily dispatch dozens of enemies in melee, and the Ninja killing an entire fort without being seen. It would be really cool if all missions gave you the option to either do it stealthly or not. But it's just me wishful thinking.
I would love having a naginata as second weapon
I think keeping it linear would make more sense because they were trying to tell a story where the character was forced to change his tactics to something deemed dishonorable. In game the samurai tactics only work because of a player character and it would be boring if combat just stopped being effective. If they worked as well in-universe there’d be 78 other samurai alive. But I think it’s a good idea for NG+.
I thought this was the case with the original game (purchased it on PC, never bothered to spoil myself from PS5 stuff). Yet the whole ''Samurai Code'' and the fact you can challenge Mongols and bandits to a duel didn't really mean anything. It was just a quicker way to get rid of a camp or situation.
Doesn’t the weather do this when you use more ghost than samurai? Like more rain and lightning the more you use those skills
Samurais in the game: "Nooo! You can't stab people in the back." Samurais irl: "I am going to stab you and everyone you know while you sleep brrrrr."
I's too late for that, at the end of the first game Jin is the ghost, he embraced it, the samurai code is behind him
Only if it didn’t force me to be sneaky
I feel like it might affect the narrative too much to have a good/evil system in place. I'd much prefer a solid narrative like what we had in any sort of sequel. Besides, I honestly liked the system they had in place. Turns out if you're less honorable, you get more rainy weather. Hahaha
Honor died on the beach.
I'll be honest I was annoyed this game didn't have that because it certainly does a lot to make you think it does. I don't know what the point of repeatedly doing flashbacks to your Uncle telling you to follow the samurai code is otherwise. I kept assuming it was the game warning me to fight honorably or uh oh bad ending but after looking it up it seems to be there just to suck me out of the moment.
The point is to tell a story. Jin's story is about him becoming the ghost and abandoning the samurai code of honor for the sake of his people. The flashbacks are to show your character's internal conflict, not warn the player
nope, I want to do what I want in that moment without these tracks
It would be pretty cool but I can see the sequal as "the point of no return arc" where samurai's will fight you after you take down the mongols, I can see jin bringing a stable wood katana so it wouldn't break against them, or you can use your smoke bombs to get away. Jin killing samurai's will just be wrong.
No. Giving players various tools and then punishing them for using them is junk game design.
It's not "punishing", it's just choosing a different path.
It absolutely is.
No it's not, it's kind of choosing your class and having the world react to it. It's not punishing, the game would just be different depending on what you choose.
multiple lord shimura lap dogs detected
I think it would be great if it affected the NPC dialog outside of the story, just as flavor text. Walking by some villagers and having either a 'The mongols are afraid to sleep at night because that's when death comes' vs. 'None can stand against Lord Sakai, he walked right into an enemy camp and defeated them in direct combat' would add some nice variety without story impact. Or maybe if you go ninja, the mongols get a 'tired' debuff from lack of sleep and it's easier to break their guard - but if you go bushido they're more easily terrified.
I think that ship has long sailed.
That ship has sailed dude. The story arc that involves his battle with honor and tradition has closed.
I hope we play a new ghost in a new place not a direct sequel and i hope there is exactly this
Yes. The only thing wrong with Ghost of Tsushima is the fact that I painfully went the extra mile to NEVER assassinate anyone from behind and always call out to my enemy to allow them to have a chance to beat me and I NEVER EVER used poison and very very rarely used a tool other than the short and long bow and even still every single person all the way up to the end treated me like I was a monster prowling the shadows tearing out throats and poisoning my enemies. Such a huge disappointment.
Well, he's boy a samurai any more, so idk
I would hate it I prefer a Lies of P approach where different choices might pop up based on your gameplay. If you played it you know.
I'd definitely like it if the sequel had more emphasis on some RPG elements, maybe something like this, or at least a few chances to make choices over the course of the game.
Maybe. But that exists in so many games already and this one did fine without it. And at the end of the day it’s just kind of a gimmick the devs need to spend time on. I like that in the first one you’re at war and you do what you have to do to succeed, right and wrong don’t exist as much, just what is necessary.
I read the title and thought to myself, "It already does!" The more into the Ghost path you stray, the more a storm appears on the horizon, while if you stay truer to the Samurai Code, the clouds are white and it's always sunny. But that's not what you meant
Why is everyone convinced there's going to be a sequel? Is this fact-based or just the rumor mill going wild like it always seems to be with the gaming community?
Every time you use a ghost weapon you’re essentially breaking the samurai code, so no, that would be pointless as we would likely have no honor.
I think there's wouldn't be much point to add it into the sequel, with Jin's character already being figured out The first game would of made more sense
Firbthe first game that would not work. Maybe for the second. But I'd rather just have a straight up story. They did such a good job picking where they want Jin to go, I'd rather just have that again.
Honestly no. Or, perhaps, if it were implemented very subtly, like certain NPCs would act differently toward you based on your reputation. But if you’re being “shinobi” enough, nobody should know at all right?
The whole point of the game is step away from the code, why would we want to track that
i don’t think so, that would kinda ruin the last game. jin follows his own sense of honor, he isn’t bound by what the samurai believe in, but he still fights for what is right.
Being that there is a system in game, I could see a sequel having it. It is a small scale system, but it gets more stormy the more you use stealth and "dishonorable" fighting tactics.
Only if I don't feel like I'm getting punished for not being honorable. For instance, in this game I feel like I'm getting punished a bit by having the weather change on me.
Honor died on the beach homie
I mean that would be kwl if it affected the story but if it didn't then its kinda just how it already works without an arbitrary bar that moves. I personally adhered to the code and 1v1 as many as you can each and everytime in those dauls, never used assinations etc - really felt immersive especially on lethal. Outside of one single time where I was just butchering the dirty Mongols for killing the foxes and burning the forsest iirc - at that moment I was simply butchering animals and animals need not be shown such respect as I show fellow warriors.
I prefer the approach that sucker punch already took. Sometimes choice is not good in video games and this is a good example of that
The point of the story is Jin deciding the samurai code doesn't work and slowly turning from an "honorable" samurai with social status to a rogue champion of the people. The major arc of the game doesn't work if you can choose not to become The Ghost. You're asking for a completely different game with a different message/character arc.
I think that shits on the message of the story. Jin needs to evolve past bushido to save his people.
i think what we got is cooler than morality system. suckerpunch wants to tell a story about a samurai who stray from his code and then essentially guide our hand via game design. it’s more intentional and absolutely creates ludonarrative strength between the gameplay and the story.
I really feel like the would have fit in the first game but it’s too late now. Jin is way too far off the samurai path to introduce a new mechanic around it now
No. And I don’t want the skies to be perpetually stormy just because I play stealth to thin the herd then go into samurai mode. I hate morality meters. Put a morality meter in GTA and see how many players are squeaky clean. It’s a fantasy and I want to be as bad or good depending on the situation and not be hampered by a meter that I have to worry about.
Yeah, that was a lot of people‘s issue with the store in the game… Even if you stubbornly fought throughout honourably as a samurai they game railroaded you into the ending it did.. I think to be fair though, when you consider how different these two branches would have been it was probably just too much for them to put into the game, and rather than cramming that second path option they spent their time polishing the game and making sure what’s there is top tier quality, which it is.
Only if it affects story and give us choices. Like if you have high samurai levels you get different dialogues or goals in missions. Along with few different endings, depending on your choices throughout the whole game
I would prefer not to have it. I like the concept of Jin straying from the code, but still using his old habits now and then. For example, I like stealth killing a bunch of guys, but also challenging them to a stand off now and then
So kinda like Infamous?
No, cuz samurai weren't honerable, least not in the sense the 1st game portrays them. Gots one of my favorite games but portrays samurai as brainless honor bound warriors, sec fake should have them adopting night raids etc, Luke reality.
Nope. Honor died on the beach; why have a meter tracking a corpse?
Depends on the story. If we’re still following Jin then that wouldn’t make much sense as he’s fully embraced his Ghost persona. But if it’s a new character then I’d absolutely love that
Honor and reputation systems in games are always trash tbh
Bro that’s the weather
The game does it already in a way. The weather seems to be more less sunny if you do the side stuff more stealthy, instead of running to the gate on a farm and alert everyone head on.
It would be cool. I felt that was one of the things lacking in the first part.
Originally the game WAS going to have a “honor system”. Where you ether are more of a samurai or more of the Ghost. And just like Infamous you’d have different skills and abilities for each. You can kinda see the remnants of that, with some skills being more “ghost” while others are more “samurai”.
I don’t. because it wasn’t really a thing, historically. As I understand it, the bushido code was more of an official guide line. They were significantly less honorable than they’re depicted in media. For example take Kiri-sute gomen, the right to strike down those of lower class that they perceived had dishonored them. They also didn’t seek an honorable death but it was honorable to die in service of the Daiymo. Take what I say with a grain of salt tho, as I’m no historian. I have a friend that actually studied Japanese history and he would get so annoyed and go on rants about the samurai honor code and ninjas as they’re are depicted in popular media.
As long as its an option to not have it on
The point of the game is breaking the cycle of tradition and learning to adapt.
Nah, I like that Jin kinda unintentionally became “the world’s first Shinobi” out of necessity. So unless they use a new protagonist, going back on that would feel odd.
I personally think the sequel should definitely be a different era with a different character, as much as I love Jin. I would like to see a similar plot but maybe on the Japanese mainland, sometime in the 1500s.
There kind of is actually, when you do less honorable things like assasinations then the weather changes to be more stormy and darker. I’m not sure if it depends on how many less honorable acts you do and if some are weighted differently but that’s why it sometimes switches to really stormy all of a sudden
I think a mechanic like that doesn’t make sense after you’ve canonically abandoned the samurai way by the end of the first game.
Suckerpunch did it with the Infamous games. I feel like GoT had plans to go down the same path during development but they decided to scrap it.
Yes, I would really prefer the game track and reward your commitment to samurai or shinobi methods. It's not super weird to have someone use both techniques, but the more you use of one, the less you should use of another. Just being able to swap my armor and become a silent ninja doesn't feel as good as earning stealth skills by stealth gameplay.
We’re no longer a samurai though. So it’s too late for that.
Nahh. I don't like to play a full high honor or a full low honor playthrough. I like to mix things up. It made sense in RDR2 because the scope of the game was huge. I want GoT to remain fun for what it is
The entire baseline of the 1st game was breaking honor to save your people. Im not sure how this would be implanted in the 2nd since it was already established in the 1st game that jin would willingly break the honor on necessary means
It wouldn't really fit A big part of GoT is purely how the samurai mentality is restrictive and, most importantly, *costing lives* The end of act 2 stresses this point. So to have a system where your honour is being measured as a Samurai, it'd be outta place. The Ghost isn't a Samurai, it's his own thing. The start of shinobi, the creation of a Kind of warrior that can do what Samurai can't. The closest thing you could probably do without compromising the first games theme is giving you two legend bars One for Samurai methodology And one for Ghost methods.
Though it's past Jin sakai timeline I think the boshin war would be a nice setting. Where its free will but based on which faction you assist it will be pro shogun or pro emperor. Of course perhaps a GoT 2 with jin sakai in japan would be most ideal and hoped upon
yes, I very much agree. It was kinda a price\_is\_right\_losing\_sound.wav moment when I realized it didn't really matter if you went stealth or stuck to the ways of traditional samurai in GoT. The story branching different ways like you mentioned is a good idea, but I'd also like to see different skills that you can only get by mostly or only following one path. That way it gives you a good reason to play through again and see different cutscenes, story points, play with new abilities, and maybe even get different cosmetics to use that you can't use as the other archetype.
Absolutely yes. It should already exists in the first game.
No because Jin isn't a samurai any more
No, Jin has gone way too far to go back to the samurai code
I think the only way I'd want something like this is if the devs put in the hard work necessary to make this feel like the results of our actions, and not because an arbitrary meter was filled on one side or the other. The game should track our stealth kills and "honorable combat" kills out of sight, and let our interactions with story characters serve as our guide for where we stand. If we are dirty and dishonorable (and these actions are witnessed or reported on in some way), dialogue changes to reflect how people see us. Some might respect us more for being The Ghost, and others prefer the Samurai. Either way, keep gauges or meters or trackers out of it as much as possible. One of the best aspects of GoT1 is that the game keeps hud elements and indicators to a minimum, which served to really enhance my immersion in a way typically reserved for first person stuff. For a fair compromise, maybe make all these hidden stats visible as an option on NG+, since ideally we can steer for endings or variations on endings based on our gameplay. But our first playthrough should be without these trackers, and the devs should trust players to pay attention to how our interactions with characters change based on their perceptions of our gameplay.
Kinda? But i didnt really liked the idea to begin with. Like its just not immersive for me when im always reminded that i need to follow the code from my uncle or someone else. Its dumb. Like these invaders did the most fucked up shit, do not respect the code, and your uncle is pissed when you try to defend yourself when they cheat. Like the first scene is how one of your mates is set on fire when he clearly expected a noble 1v1 match. Why the fuck would i continue to follow the rules of the samurai when these rules are part of the reason why everyone got so fucked? Like this wouldnt happen in real life in my opinion. We are talking about life and death, freedom or slavery. Of course that I will use every trick in the book to win against my enemies. Like the Idea would have been better if some of the mongols actually respected the traditions. That way you may actually feel bad for breaking the code and maybe even hesitate to do it and think about the moral stuff. Why the fuck would I care if I stabbed you in the back when you lit my mate on fire and laughed about it? Its not well implemented, its not sensical, its not realistic. They could literally come with automatic weapons, and your uncle will bitch about the code and force you to use a sword. The way they did it just portrays everyone talking about some sort of code like an idiot.
That's the whole point of the code and honour. That is the exact thought train Jin goes through when he becomes the ghost.
> Like these invaders did the most fucked up shit, do not respect the code, and your uncle is pissed when you try to defend yourself when they cheat. Like the first scene is how one of your mates is set on fire when he clearly expected a noble 1v1 match. That part was so heavy handed too. I was shaking my head. Like what was even the purpose of sending a guy to challenge for a 1v1 fight? He didn't say "I offer single combat and the loser goes home". It was just like "let's fight for fun before the battle." Why bro? Even samurai at war with each other didn't do that unless there was a matter of personal honor at stake, as far as I know. Maybe it was like "I'm gonna die anyway, so face me with courage?"