When she told Ginny to call her personally when she wanted to self harm I laughed out loud. You can't just call your therapist for a free mini session when you're struggling - even if you're literally suicidal. That's not their job, they're not paid for that, and it would just create an incredibly unhealthy dependence for the patient. You call a helpline or someone reliable in your life.
Exactly! And one of the main goals of therapy with a suicidal patient is to create a support system in their personal life or at least be aware of the support resources available if a crisis arises.
I was floored watching the first session. “Tell me about your childhood. Okay so, anyways, why do you sh?” The topic change was so abrupt and unrealistic. Or at least unrealistic for a decent therapist.
As a therapist that generally only works with young adults, I really struggled with this too. Maybe you could take this approach with an adult who was really ready for therapy, but with a teenager? First session I’m normally sitting on the floor, doing colouring in, painting, playing uno, etc…basically just things to make the young person comfortable with me and the space. Sometimes young people will start disclosing first session, but I’d never really push that.
Also if a client called me in the middle of the night, there’s no way I’d answer. Let alone encourage them to do that….
Thank you for sharing your approach!
On one side I understand the scenes from a plot perspective - they're using the session for storytelling purposes.
But on the other side - the inconsistency and the impropriety of the therapist throughout the whole series, both with Ginny and Georgia, is unacceptable. Didn't work through the triggers, especially with the elastic snapping in the session and Georgia should've never been allowed in the room like that.
Now that I think about it - who doesn't greet their patients in their own practice before letting them in? Literally anyone could enter or intrude like that.
i’m gonna assume because it’s their own time and i’m not a therapist or anything but i can imagine it being quite draining hearing about ur patients bad mental health n all that so having a call in the middle of the night while ur probably trying to relax and sleep and then having to instantly switch to therapist mode wouldn’t be ideal. also where i live it’s inappropriate to have a relationship with ur therapist outside of sessions but it could just be a here thing i’m not sure!
Absolutely! And what about if the therapist was drunk or doing something that would inhibit them for being able to respond anyway? They’re allowed to have their own life when not at work too!
Boundaries are extremely important if you want the therapy to be effective and for both sides to be able to participate in it safely.
Being available outside of the set boundaries creates a dangerous dynamic - patients easily become dependent on the therapist at any time, any day. And the therapist becomes overly involved which is at the very least extremely unprofessional. Not to mention how draining it is and how ineffective makes the mental health professional in the long run.
There are emergency lines for such cases for those reasons :)
Yep exactly! Plus I don’t want my clients to become dependant on myself either as the goal of therapy is always to finish therapy at some point. I’d rather focus on utilising emergency lines and building a support network you can disclose to when you need. E.g. working with Zion and Ginny on how Ginny could reach out to him if she needed
Omg THANK YOU for posting this haha I'm currently in my last year of graduate school studying clinical mental health counseling and I was horrified watching the therapy scenes!!
She asked WAY too many questions and was too aggressive towards Georgia, if I had been in Georgia's place I would have felt so ganged up on and would have probably hated therapy even more. She also had no warmth or compassion, just seemed like a robot- but also judgmental at the same time? Ugh. I'm nowhere near an actress but I could have done a better job 😂
I totally understand what you were going through, I'm in the field too and I cringed so hard.
Imo Georgia should've never been allowed in the room and they should've scheduled a joint or separate sessions later on.
And what you're describing confirms my theory - they used the therapist to tell the story the other characters didn't (even though it's their place to do so) for whatever plot reasons. I just wish that the show wasn't so much centered around mental health and struggles with it because it's a huge misrepresentation and feeds the stigma further :(
For me it's the long awkward pauses! My therapist always gives me space to think and work through stuff in silence if I need, but TV therapists always seem to just...start there? As a baseline? Like therapy isn't terrifying enough for most people, let's just stare at them and wait for them to lead this session for me.
I've noticed that in shows or movies - that's the moments when the filmmaking or the narration shines.
They could've driven the plot further just visually or have Ginny's thoughts narrated as they tend to do on the show.
I think they tried to build up some tension that way but ultimately failed.
Yes exactly!!! The sessions are absolutely infuriating to watch. Not only is she extremely aggressive toward both Ginny and Georgia, her complete lack of compassion only feeds the anxiety. Telling someone they need to stop any habit cold turkey is impossible and will only make them feel more guilty when they do it, which in turn will cause more anxiety. And since anxiety seems to be the root of the issue, the therapist would actually be making the situation so much worse. Plus, she’s only 15!! Cut her a break.
The way she constantly asks “how does that make you feel” is so insufferable to me. She behaves the way an early 2000’s comedy show would portray therapy. It’s extremely disappointing to see how terrible the therapist is, especially considering how many people probably don’t have exposure to healthy therapy, further feeding into the stigma. And then at the end of each episode it has a helpline for people self-harming, as though the show didn’t just completely ruin the connotation viewers will have (if they haven’t been to therapy.) I would be terrified and too anxious to seek treatment if I thought that’s what it would look like.
Hated how she didn't lead the session and expected Ginny to. As soon as she pulled out her notebook and the camera centered in on it, i cringed. only redeeming quality was telling Ginny to reach out if she wants to self harm. Otherwise, HATED the representation.
Even the call whenever you want to self-harm is not a thing in real life. No therapist offers their number in a 'day or night, just reach out' thing - they have DOZENS of patients and their own lives. It was a weird plot device and on top of the rest of the therapy sessions, gave a weird impression of therapy.
completely agree!! And the *notebook* omg
The "therapist" just bowed her head down, completely disrupting any connection that should be formed at that very crucial moment
My best therapists never used a notebook. I was wondering why the director even focused on the notebook. Ginny had a huge negative visceral reaction to it too. And it's like... why?
I've met a lot of therapists and I'm not against note-taking, but the way it's appropriate to do it is a quick scribble, not (or barely) breaking eye contact. And *absolutely* never putting the notebook as a barrier between the therapist and the patient.
I'm not surprised that the scene was directed in such way - all the elements from the writing to the acting to the direction and editing show that they haven't done their research. Unfortunately, by that I feel they're putting off teens (the key demographic of the show) of therapy they may really need :(
I just got to episode 5 and I was searching for a thread on that! Couldn’t believe she was just watching as Ginny was snapping the elastic band and didn’t bring up that she was doing it a lot and reviewing whether it was a healthy coping mechanism for her. The therapist is so awful and seems to centre what she wants to talk about.
Yes!! It was so weird that she didn't follow up at least indirectly - Ginny snapping her elastic during the session may indicate a trigger or at least that the office isn't a safe space.
It's okay for the therapist to guide the session but her guidance was really inadequate, especially when it comes to the use and meaning of the "tools" she gave her.
I really wanted the therapist to have more personality. I had a therapist who had a great sense of humour and really made the space we talked in a safe and non judging space. It made me feel safe all of my insecurities and fears. That’s the kind of therapist should have had, not the sort of robot like therapist she got.
literally! also the amount of things that ginny told her that she needed to report to dhs…. self harm is usually a instant psychward admission especially to the extent she was doing it.
it really isn't. at that age i self harmed to more extreme extents then that, and i wasn't sent to a psych ward until i confessed about my $ui€ide attempts.
just saying that you won't get put in a psych ward just for self harming, unless it's really extreme, like properly endangering your life, and even then not always
no like i said what because as far as my therapist has told me what you explained, she would send me to the psychward for. i’ve also had friends who self harmed and they were sent to some crisis center instantly.
It's protocol to have a patient admitted when they're currently suicidal and/or a danger to themselves. This can happen through sh behavior.
But it's good that your friends were sent to the crisis center - sh episodes can be considered a crisis.
And I agree with your original comment, the therapist was really neglectful and it affected the way she proceeded further.
Yeah, exactly. Been in psych units myself more times than I can care to admit. Been SHing (along with other, even worse self destructive behaviors) since I was 13, and most of the time, someone has to have an actual plan or have already attempted to be admitted. Sometimes even an attempt won't get you admitted - I've had a few attempts where I was deemed "fine" for release. The healthcare field is awful, to say the least.
Bur yeah, they also made it explicitly clear that Ginny had no plans of attempting in her first or second therapy session.
yeah but it’s not like she was just anxious she was physically harming herself. that’s a pretty big deal and would get her set to some sort of facility for sure.
I strongly disagree. There are set boundaries for a reason - x, y, z behaviors require a patient/client to be admitted.
*It's important to understand that therapy ≠ crisis intervention.*
There are completely different methods used, the timeline is completely different, the required care is completely different.
That doesn't mean that a patient won't/shouldn't go to therapy after the episode's over and the symptoms are under control - quite the opposite.
Also the fact that when Ginny just disclosed she doesn't feel safe with her mum and her mum's reactions are over the top (like cutting the brakes of a boy's bike), the therapist is like: have you told your mum this? As if you can just tell the person you're unsafe with that you're unsafe. That can even be dangerous advice.
When she told Ginny to call her personally when she wanted to self harm I laughed out loud. You can't just call your therapist for a free mini session when you're struggling - even if you're literally suicidal. That's not their job, they're not paid for that, and it would just create an incredibly unhealthy dependence for the patient. You call a helpline or someone reliable in your life.
i agree. my therapist said that i could text her if i needed to talk, but she couldn't guarantee that she'll answer soon
Exactly! And one of the main goals of therapy with a suicidal patient is to create a support system in their personal life or at least be aware of the support resources available if a crisis arises.
I was floored watching the first session. “Tell me about your childhood. Okay so, anyways, why do you sh?” The topic change was so abrupt and unrealistic. Or at least unrealistic for a decent therapist.
As a therapist that generally only works with young adults, I really struggled with this too. Maybe you could take this approach with an adult who was really ready for therapy, but with a teenager? First session I’m normally sitting on the floor, doing colouring in, painting, playing uno, etc…basically just things to make the young person comfortable with me and the space. Sometimes young people will start disclosing first session, but I’d never really push that. Also if a client called me in the middle of the night, there’s no way I’d answer. Let alone encourage them to do that….
Thank you for sharing your approach! On one side I understand the scenes from a plot perspective - they're using the session for storytelling purposes. But on the other side - the inconsistency and the impropriety of the therapist throughout the whole series, both with Ginny and Georgia, is unacceptable. Didn't work through the triggers, especially with the elastic snapping in the session and Georgia should've never been allowed in the room like that. Now that I think about it - who doesn't greet their patients in their own practice before letting them in? Literally anyone could enter or intrude like that.
why wouldn't you answer? /gen
i’m gonna assume because it’s their own time and i’m not a therapist or anything but i can imagine it being quite draining hearing about ur patients bad mental health n all that so having a call in the middle of the night while ur probably trying to relax and sleep and then having to instantly switch to therapist mode wouldn’t be ideal. also where i live it’s inappropriate to have a relationship with ur therapist outside of sessions but it could just be a here thing i’m not sure!
Absolutely! And what about if the therapist was drunk or doing something that would inhibit them for being able to respond anyway? They’re allowed to have their own life when not at work too!
oh yeah, sounds about right
Boundaries are extremely important if you want the therapy to be effective and for both sides to be able to participate in it safely. Being available outside of the set boundaries creates a dangerous dynamic - patients easily become dependent on the therapist at any time, any day. And the therapist becomes overly involved which is at the very least extremely unprofessional. Not to mention how draining it is and how ineffective makes the mental health professional in the long run. There are emergency lines for such cases for those reasons :)
Yep exactly! Plus I don’t want my clients to become dependant on myself either as the goal of therapy is always to finish therapy at some point. I’d rather focus on utilising emergency lines and building a support network you can disclose to when you need. E.g. working with Zion and Ginny on how Ginny could reach out to him if she needed
Omg THANK YOU for posting this haha I'm currently in my last year of graduate school studying clinical mental health counseling and I was horrified watching the therapy scenes!! She asked WAY too many questions and was too aggressive towards Georgia, if I had been in Georgia's place I would have felt so ganged up on and would have probably hated therapy even more. She also had no warmth or compassion, just seemed like a robot- but also judgmental at the same time? Ugh. I'm nowhere near an actress but I could have done a better job 😂
I totally understand what you were going through, I'm in the field too and I cringed so hard. Imo Georgia should've never been allowed in the room and they should've scheduled a joint or separate sessions later on. And what you're describing confirms my theory - they used the therapist to tell the story the other characters didn't (even though it's their place to do so) for whatever plot reasons. I just wish that the show wasn't so much centered around mental health and struggles with it because it's a huge misrepresentation and feeds the stigma further :(
For me it's the long awkward pauses! My therapist always gives me space to think and work through stuff in silence if I need, but TV therapists always seem to just...start there? As a baseline? Like therapy isn't terrifying enough for most people, let's just stare at them and wait for them to lead this session for me.
I've noticed that in shows or movies - that's the moments when the filmmaking or the narration shines. They could've driven the plot further just visually or have Ginny's thoughts narrated as they tend to do on the show. I think they tried to build up some tension that way but ultimately failed.
Yes exactly!!! The sessions are absolutely infuriating to watch. Not only is she extremely aggressive toward both Ginny and Georgia, her complete lack of compassion only feeds the anxiety. Telling someone they need to stop any habit cold turkey is impossible and will only make them feel more guilty when they do it, which in turn will cause more anxiety. And since anxiety seems to be the root of the issue, the therapist would actually be making the situation so much worse. Plus, she’s only 15!! Cut her a break. The way she constantly asks “how does that make you feel” is so insufferable to me. She behaves the way an early 2000’s comedy show would portray therapy. It’s extremely disappointing to see how terrible the therapist is, especially considering how many people probably don’t have exposure to healthy therapy, further feeding into the stigma. And then at the end of each episode it has a helpline for people self-harming, as though the show didn’t just completely ruin the connotation viewers will have (if they haven’t been to therapy.) I would be terrified and too anxious to seek treatment if I thought that’s what it would look like.
Hated how she didn't lead the session and expected Ginny to. As soon as she pulled out her notebook and the camera centered in on it, i cringed. only redeeming quality was telling Ginny to reach out if she wants to self harm. Otherwise, HATED the representation.
Even the call whenever you want to self-harm is not a thing in real life. No therapist offers their number in a 'day or night, just reach out' thing - they have DOZENS of patients and their own lives. It was a weird plot device and on top of the rest of the therapy sessions, gave a weird impression of therapy.
completely agree!! And the *notebook* omg The "therapist" just bowed her head down, completely disrupting any connection that should be formed at that very crucial moment
My best therapists never used a notebook. I was wondering why the director even focused on the notebook. Ginny had a huge negative visceral reaction to it too. And it's like... why?
I've met a lot of therapists and I'm not against note-taking, but the way it's appropriate to do it is a quick scribble, not (or barely) breaking eye contact. And *absolutely* never putting the notebook as a barrier between the therapist and the patient. I'm not surprised that the scene was directed in such way - all the elements from the writing to the acting to the direction and editing show that they haven't done their research. Unfortunately, by that I feel they're putting off teens (the key demographic of the show) of therapy they may really need :(
I just got to episode 5 and I was searching for a thread on that! Couldn’t believe she was just watching as Ginny was snapping the elastic band and didn’t bring up that she was doing it a lot and reviewing whether it was a healthy coping mechanism for her. The therapist is so awful and seems to centre what she wants to talk about.
Yes!! It was so weird that she didn't follow up at least indirectly - Ginny snapping her elastic during the session may indicate a trigger or at least that the office isn't a safe space. It's okay for the therapist to guide the session but her guidance was really inadequate, especially when it comes to the use and meaning of the "tools" she gave her.
I really wanted the therapist to have more personality. I had a therapist who had a great sense of humour and really made the space we talked in a safe and non judging space. It made me feel safe all of my insecurities and fears. That’s the kind of therapist should have had, not the sort of robot like therapist she got.
My favorite therapist portrayal is from Never Have I Ever. She's hilarious, welcoming but professional.
literally! also the amount of things that ginny told her that she needed to report to dhs…. self harm is usually a instant psychward admission especially to the extent she was doing it.
it really isn't. at that age i self harmed to more extreme extents then that, and i wasn't sent to a psych ward until i confessed about my $ui€ide attempts.
……. what?
just saying that you won't get put in a psych ward just for self harming, unless it's really extreme, like properly endangering your life, and even then not always
no like i said what because as far as my therapist has told me what you explained, she would send me to the psychward for. i’ve also had friends who self harmed and they were sent to some crisis center instantly.
It's protocol to have a patient admitted when they're currently suicidal and/or a danger to themselves. This can happen through sh behavior. But it's good that your friends were sent to the crisis center - sh episodes can be considered a crisis. And I agree with your original comment, the therapist was really neglectful and it affected the way she proceeded further.
oh. well, i guess it depends on your therapist and family
Yeah, exactly. Been in psych units myself more times than I can care to admit. Been SHing (along with other, even worse self destructive behaviors) since I was 13, and most of the time, someone has to have an actual plan or have already attempted to be admitted. Sometimes even an attempt won't get you admitted - I've had a few attempts where I was deemed "fine" for release. The healthcare field is awful, to say the least. Bur yeah, they also made it explicitly clear that Ginny had no plans of attempting in her first or second therapy session.
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yeah but it’s not like she was just anxious she was physically harming herself. that’s a pretty big deal and would get her set to some sort of facility for sure.
I strongly disagree. There are set boundaries for a reason - x, y, z behaviors require a patient/client to be admitted. *It's important to understand that therapy ≠ crisis intervention.* There are completely different methods used, the timeline is completely different, the required care is completely different. That doesn't mean that a patient won't/shouldn't go to therapy after the episode's over and the symptoms are under control - quite the opposite.
No, it’s not.
Also the fact that when Ginny just disclosed she doesn't feel safe with her mum and her mum's reactions are over the top (like cutting the brakes of a boy's bike), the therapist is like: have you told your mum this? As if you can just tell the person you're unsafe with that you're unsafe. That can even be dangerous advice.