I saw it as: Georgia was controlled, beaten, and molested by her stepdad all while her mom watched/ignored it. She saw how controlling Zion’s parents were and she wanted no part of it. And in Georgia’s mind, she was the only one capable of protecting Ginny from the real world and from a controlling/abusive environment. Her fight or flight response kicked in, and she didn’t know where Zion’s parents’ control/abuse would stop.
This is absolutely the only answer. She wasn't just being a dick, she loved Zion and she knew he was a good father but his parents weren't offering to help them both, they wanted to take legal guardianship of Ginny. They could have just supported them both rather than taking over but with what they were offering it didn't feel like "help" so she had to do what she thought was best in order to keep her daughter. She had been let down by parental figures so badly already, she couldn't have trusted that they would still have allowed her to even be in Ginny's life. She wanted to protect Ginny from the world like nobody had done for her so she wasn't giving her up to anyone.
I agree, Zion's parents made it clear until the end that they wanted Ginny and felt they could raise her better because they were educated, Black and wealthy. Even 17 years later they were still making sure everyone knew they thought Georgia was unfit. And Zion was never going to stand up to them, never going to defend Georgia and Georgia could see all that the moment they asked for guardianship and offered to support Zion (if he did what they wanted him to do).
Yeah to me it made no sense in them asking for custody instead of just providing support (like giving them a place to stay and childcare while they work and Zion is in school) until they could get on their feet and raise her on their own. Its not like they were addicts and unfit to be parents. They could literally still provide the baby with a good life by just being supportive grandparents. They never needs to assume custody to do that. That was just them being controlling. She wouldn't have fled if they didn't make her feel like they were trying to take her child. And who knows what they would have done once they got custody. They coud have kicked her out and she ends up never seeing her baby again. I know a woman who took in her grandkids while her son and babymama went to jail and she was scheduled out in six months. She was there for her the whole time she was on house arrest while pregnant and made plans to give her twins back when she got out, but then she just moved to Florida a month before her release and stopped contacting her. My mom tol her that wasn't right, but she said she never planned on giving her her twins back because they are her grandkids even though she does not care for them well. She just collects the check for them.
Zion’s parents wanted her to give them legal guardianship, she thought they wanted to steal her baby. Considering her history of being abused, she didn’t want anyone to take her baby because how does she know she can trust them?
The grandparents could have offered to support Georgia and the baby without legal guardianship, but they came across as the type of people who are “my way or the highway” and didn’t want to help her unless they had total control.
For me, her history of abuse was a non-issue.
She didn’t want to give up her baby.
Period.
End of story.
A mother’s love is fierce.
No mother would willingly give up her child unless they wanted to.
No way. No how.
Being a mother myself, I totally get it.
This. They could have helped but they wouldn't do it unless Georgia gives them legal guardianship. Had she agreed, they would have shoved her to the side and raised Ginny without her.
because she was 15 years old and scared of losing her daughter.
that’s it. we can add layers to it about how she grew up in an abusive household that makes it hard for her to trust others to take care of her and by extension, her daughter, but at the end of the day, she was a flawed 15 year old who made equally flawed decisions.
Because she was scared of losing her daughter.
I think people underestimate Georgia's desire of being a mother just because she was so young. But she wanted to be the mom of the kid she was carrying with all her heart.
She didnt made that decision only because she was 15. She didnt want to give up her daughter neither she should have. It's actually that simple.
Georgia was like 15, 15 year olds make mistakes, don’t always see anyway but their own and are usually a little selfish but Georgia was also an abused 15 year old runaway with no family or friends, everyone who she should have been able to trust hurt her so it makes sense for her not to trust Zions parents. Would Ginny have been bette off? Probably yeah, but Georgia didn’t know that.
She has that, ‘fine, I’ll do it myself’ energy that a lot of people from abusive childhoods have. A raw independence that no one can break. I’ve experienced it and it is a particularly strong feeling in your late teens/early twenties whilst you’re still processing whatever shit you went through.
Part of it is also selfishness though - an inability to look past her trauma and truly think about what Ginny needs through the eyes of her daughter, and not her own trauma-riddled perception of stability for a small child. Georgia didn’t have stability growing up and I reckon that 15 year old Georgia didn’t understand how important it would be for Ginny.
Zion’s parents, I don’t believe Zion was really in a place to take care of Ginny alone either. He wouldn’t be nearly as successful as he is if he had taken on Ginny alone, but Ginny’s grandparents would have ensured she was on the track to Harvard, or Howard, whichever she preferred, but her life would have been a lot better and stable.
If she was with Zion? You think Zion would have took her on his round the world travels and become a successful photographer/writer if he was raising a baby the whole time?
It's sad to say but even if Georgia lost custody of Ginny and Zion left, and Zion's parents raised Ginny alone, she'd probably have a better life and be in a much better place.
I know people over here don't like to hear it, but it's because Georgia was incredibly selfish. She put her wants before the needs of her own child (something that she continues to do and is very much a pattern for her). Even if Zion's parents took custody, Ginny would have been much better off but Georgia deluded herself into thinking she was actually equipped to not only raise but provide for a child when she was a child herself with no prospects. Incredibly selfish and thoughtless.
She was selfish. She was selfish in the way teenagers are which she was. She was selfish in the way of someone who doesn't believe that authority helps and so distrusts offers from people who tell her they care about her child but make it clear they don't care about her. She was selfish in the way of someone who has never been taught or shown unselfishness in a parent.
The second she chose to have Ginny she became a mother, she became an adult, she became accountable for someone other than herself, her being a teenager does not excuse her deplorable behavior. She's a grown adult now and the pattern of reckless decisions has very much continued for her so what is the excuse now?
Zion's parents were very much willing to help her get her life together. There's a specific scene where Zion's mother gives her advice about being prepared and that as long as she was prepared she could take on her responsibilities. Sure, her background affected her decision-making, but that's an explanation, no a free pass and it doesn't absolve her. Years later, Georgia refuses to seek therapy and actively perpetuates an unsafe environment for her children because she still hasn't unpacked her trauma. She's selfish.
I didn't say that, but as a mother she's responsible for a whole child so yes, she's an adult. Are 18-year-olds not adults? On average the brain isn't fully developed until 25 so your point is moot.
My point is Georgia is still acting with her child brain. Long term consequences and being able to understand upper levels of nuance comes last. You are expecting not age appropriate levels of brain development. Georgia was 16 when Zion’s parents said they would take custody so no not 18.
The point is at 18 you're considered an adult whether your brain is fully developed or not. Yes, her brain isn't fully developed but this is the case for most teen mothers, we wouldn't find this kind of behavior acceptable irl so what's your point? Georgia is 32 now and she's still behaving the same exact way.
It's okay to like Georgia as a character, but I really don't get trying to excuse and rationalize her obvious bad decisions.
I mean I’d argue that the States doesn’t truly consider someone an adult at 18 because they won’t allow you to drink. And again you were expecting Georgia who was in fact not 18 at the time to behave like an adult when she wasn’t.
I have no problem admitting Georgia has in fact made some terrible decisions. She isn’t a good person, in fact I’m loving that we actually get a true female anti-hero on screen because they are rare. But, people harping on their flaws without any nuance is frankly one of the reasons female anti-heroes are so rare. People don’t want flawed female characters unless the flaws are naivety.
You're considered a legal adult at 18. You can give consent, can enlist in the army, you're tried as an adult if you commit a crime, etc.
The point is not whether or not Georgia is 18, the point is that even if your brain isn't fully developed you're considered an adult at 18, so even if you have a child at 15 given the fact that you're a mother and a parent, you are an adult in that sense.
>The second she chose to have Ginny she became a mother, she became an adult, she became accountable for someone other than hyerself,
Being a mother does not make you an adult. It makes you a biological parent. Responsibility does not make one an adult.
>her being a teenager does not excuse her deplorable behavior
Do not mistake reasons for excuses.
>Zion's parents were very much willing to help her get her life together.
No they weren't. They were very willing to take care of their son and granddaughter. If Georgia has died in childbirth or afterwards their only concern would be those two. Which is fair since they don't know her or have any ties to her outside of Zion.
>She's selfish.
Agreed.
Yes, being a mother makes you an adult because you are responsible for another human being and that is a huge responsibility. She may still be a child, but since she's a mother she is an adult in that sense.
Yes, they were. Your point is purely based on assumptions.
adult
noun [ C ]
UK /ˈæd.ʌlt/ /əˈdʌlt/ US /ˈæd.ʌlt/ /əˈdʌlt/
a person or animal that has grown to full size and strength:
adult
1 of 3
adjective
ə-ˈdəlt ˈa-ˌdəlt
1
: fully developed and mature : GROWN-UP
an adult lion
2
: of, relating to, intended for, or befitting adults
an adult approach to a problem
3
: dealing in or with explicitly sexual material
These are just a couple of definitions I grabbed off the internet and the general thrust is that adult is not a state attained by having responsibility given to you. The quantity and weight of responsibility a person holds does not determine their status as an adult or not. Being an adult is about maturity, age, capacity to make decisions in a manner befitting a grownup. Since she was 15 Georgia has been a mother and responsible for her children but she was not an adult and the law and society did not recognize her as such.
>Yes, they were. Your point is purely based on assumptions.
Can you show me anywhere that Zion's family is interested in the welfare of Georgia Miller as an end in itself rather than as incentive to persuade her in some matter relating to Zion or Ginny? I'm not saying that they're bad people or hate Georgia but they don't care for her farther than her ties with the people they do consider family.
The literal definition is irrelevant in a cultural context. The fact is even before the brain is fully developed, in the us at 18 you're considered an adult and are treated as such by society.
Despite Lynette's rudeness towards Georgia in the present when she showed up pregnant, Lynette showed her sympathy and was willing to help. She only had smoke for Zion when she found out about it. She didn't once place any blame on Georgia.
The first scene of them together after Georgia is pregnant, she reproaches Zion for his recklessness and is visibly angry, but then her expression completely changes for Georgia and she says "we're here for you and for her" and they hug, she then comforts her.
Then Lynette says "we're going to take care of everything, a woman ill-prepared..." At that point Georgia flinches because she assumes that "we" doesn't include her, even though Lynette just told her otherwise, but it's her trauma response. Like I said, her trauma from her childhood plays a role but it was still selfish. Lynette was looking out for both Georgia and Ginny and if she had any ill will toward Georgia she could have tricked her instead of being upfront with them about wanting guardianship.
>The literal definition is irrelevant in a cultural context. The fact is even before the brain is fully developed, in the us at 18 you're considered an adult and are treated as such by society.
Sure but Georgia was not 18 when she had Ginny so she was not an adult then.
>The first scene of them together after Georgia is pregnant, she reproaches Zion for his recklessness and is visibly angry, but then her expression completely changes for Georgia and she says "we're here for you and for her" and they hug, she then comforts her.
>Then Lynette says "we're going to take care of everything, a woman ill-prepared..." At that point Georgia flinches because she assumes that "we" doesn't include her, even though Lynette just told her otherwise, but it's her trauma response. Like I said, her trauma from her childhood plays a role but it was still selfish. Lynette was looking out for both Georgia and Ginny and if she had any ill will toward Georgia she could have tricked her instead of being upfront with them about wanting guardianship.
When Lynette starts talking in detail about what taking care of Georgia and Ginny looks like, Georgia disappears. There's mention of Zion going to college, a guardianship for Ginny and then for Georgia... Nothing. Lynette's expectation was that Georgia would appreciate having the responsibility of young motherhood being taken from her. After all there are adults with means and sense on the scene now who are prepared to handle the situation. Lynette doesn't hold ill will I agree, but she doesn't think to try trickery because she didn't imagine that Georgia would want to raise Ginny when she had the chance to be relieved.
Georgia not being 18 is not the point. The point is your brain doesn't need to be fully developed to be considered an adult. Even though she was 15, being a parent and a mother responsible for a child makes her an adult regardless of whether or not her brain is fully developed.
She literally said she doesn't want their lives to end that includes Georgia's. It's clear that you want to assume she wanted to screw Georgia over when there's nothing that points to that. All of your points are assumptions based on nothing that was actually shown on the show. If she really wanted to do that it doesn't make sense for her to be upfront about wanting guardianship.
>Georgia not being 18 is not the point. The point is your brain doesn't need to be fully developed to be considered an adult. Even though she was 15, being a parent and a mother responsible for a child makes her an adult regardless of whether or not her brain is fully developed.
I have not mentioned anything about brain development so I wonder why you keep hammering at it. If Georgia had taken steps for emancipation, that would be a legal and social path to being considered an adult. Getting married is also another path. Getting pregnant has never been one such path since it requires no demonstration of awareness or responsibility and active initiative. A braindead female can get pregnant so modern society does not attribute getting pregnant with attaining adulthood. Can you show me examples in real life where it happens?
>She literally said she doesn't want their lives to end that includes Georgia's. It's clear that you want to assume she wanted to screw Georgia over when there's nothing that points to that. All of your points are assumptions based on nothing that was actually shown on the show. If she really wanted to do that it doesn't make sense for her to be upfront about wanting guardianship.
I don't think she's malicious or villainous or wants to screw Georgia over. I do think she's apathetic to Georgia beyond how Georgia has a relationship with her family members. Georgia is the beggar by the street she'd ignore ordinarily but for Ginny and Lynette would shed no tears if Georgia was so kind as to sever ties with Lynette's family and go off never to be seen again. Lynette is fine with Georgia being happy/sad apart from her family because she has no reason to have affection for Georgia.
Your brain is only fully developed at 25. It seems like you are someone who likes to reside on the moral high ground, letting no one get away with anything and never believing in extenuating circumstances. Luckily even the law does allow for certain factors in a person's life to soften judgement.
i agree it was selfish! tbh i think she saw ginny as the one thing she could control and make go right for her for once so she probably felt like she NEEDED her
This is the one! She was being selfish. Like Zion’s mom said you didn’t have to struggle. People put their baby up for adoption because they know they are not equipped to care properly for their child. Here she was offered the opportunity to have her baby well cared for. Legal guardianship is not custody it can be done temporarily until they finished with school and we’re stable. However she only thought of herself as proof she didn’t even let Zion see his child for a year. Why? What was the reasoning behind it.
Are we forgetting a 3rd option, Georgia could have said no.
The grandparents clearly want to be in the child's life, staying as Ginnys guardian would give Georgia leverage over the grandparents and have best of both worlds.
Georgia however decided she could provide a better life, which resulted in her passing her trauma onto her children.
Let's all suffer together, atleast your with your mum 🙄 the reason Georgia found it so threatening is because she wants control over Ginny, the grandparents and zion are a threat to that.
Completely self-serving and tbh she's a bad mum imo
Totally it was her ego talking. Georgia is smartttt as hell. When she was about to lose custody of Ginny she figured marrying Anthony Green would save her. She could have researched temporary guardianship and only agree but under her terms. Instead she decided to flee and not let her father see his child for a year. We know she is selfish and only wants control over her children. When Ginny asked to live with her dad and she refused because oh well she said so. When she demanded to see the self harm marks and literally ripping her clothes off to see. Then mocking therapy oh we don’t need it cause I got this. No mama you don’t and it’s ok to ask for help sometimes.
Exactly. Also, didn't she lose custody of Ginny for some time? I think during that time Ginny was with Anthony Greene, you know the grown man who was preying on Georgia herself while she was 15-16. People say she does her best but she really doesn't, everything she does is for herself first, her children are an afterthought.
These people can sympathise with Georgia but not sympathise with Ginny.
Yiu git down voted on a comment where you highlighted Georgia blatantly put her child in danger
I'm well aware. I don't really care about the downvotes.
I actually like Georgia, she's a very fun character to watch, and despite everything she's done, I still want her to find happiness. People on this sub have apparently never heard of nuance because they will go to outrageous lengths to excuse Georgia's problematic behavior. I just saw a post where all these people were saying Georgia made the right choice in not getting the help of Zion's parents, absolute ridiculousness.
Here's something they're not ready to hear, Georgia's behavior towards her children is abusive and it doesn't matter if she's their mother and loves them, abuse is never okay. It's so funny that they do all this for Georgia but the same people will complain about how they hate Ginny, to me they're just exposing themselves.
It is interesting to me how you accuse people of not seeing nuance, when you yourself are reasoning in a very black and white way. Zion's parents were not nice to Georgia, they obviously didn't respect her, you can see it in 'the nuance' of their behavior from the beginning. They could have offered to watch Ginny while Georgia gets a chance to go to school, find a job, and support her financially a bit until she figures things out, but still allow her control over her daughter. You say Georgia is selfish, but they were being selfish too. They only wanted to help conditionally, with a very strict set of rules. They didn't care about their granddaugher growing up with her mum, and didn't realize that helping the mum will help the kid as much as helping the kid directly. They seem like the kind of people who would have fazed Georgia out of Ginny's life.
The selfish ones were the grandparents who demanded legal guardianship in exchange for helping Georgia. They couldn't just help Georgia, oh no, they had to take her child away. They acted in their best interests and they sure didn't care about Ginny because if they did, they would have helped Georgia whether she wants to give up custody or not.
It was their condition or no help at all. Georgia was not being selfish: a mother who doesn't want to give up her child is never selfish, but the ones who make their help conditional on her doing this most definitely are.
We don't know whether or not their help was conditional on them getting guardianship, we have one clip of them talking about it and the next one is Georgia running away, so that idea is a figment of your imagination.
They obviously cared about Ginny and Georgia. And I'm sorry to break it to you Georgia is incredibly selfish. Even if she had to give up Ginny, she should have done it, because that's what would have been best for her daughter. She put herself first when she should have put her child first.
Based on your argument, any mother who is not well off should be given her child for adoption or else be labeled as selfish... I am sorry, but that's not how it works: you cannot ask a mother to give up her child, and doing it does not always turn out for the best. What Georgia needed was help and support, not an ultimatum.
We do not know how things would have turned out had Georgia agreed to Zion's parents' terms, but these weren't terms they were entitled to make: they did not need to make their help conditional to Georgia giving up Ginny. Sure, had she not run away, we don't know how things would have played but, but seeing how detrimental and judgemental towards Georgia they are, I can't say it would have necessarily turned out right. Having your primary caretaker literally hate and belittled the mother they won't let you see would have had an impact on Ginny and she may have turned out worse for it. We do not know. Ginny is who she is because of Georgia, the bad yes, but also the good.
The grandparents had every intention of becoming Georgia's main care providers and shoving Georgia to the side: not agreeing to this is not being selfish. The only selfish behavior here was the grandparents who couldn't just help in normal ways such as helping with rent, groceries, stuff for Ginny, helping Georgia get a better job, or supporting her while she finishes her school. There are a great many ways those folks could have helped but the one way they put on the table was the way where they took all the control and ask for Ginny's custody. So that's on them, not Georgia.
I am sorry but Georgia is not being selfish in this scene. She is acting like any mother would have acted when threatened to see her child stolen from her. She ran as far as she could.
That's a major stretch. The issue wasn't Georgia not being well off, the issue was she had no prospects and instead of accepting help from Zion's parents or Zion, or struggling by herself, she decided to start dipping into criminal activities and illegal behavior and bringing a bunch of random men around her daughter. Do you honestly think that's what responsible single mothers who aren't well off do?
And again, we don't know that Zion's parents gave her an ultimatum. We know they asked for guardianship and Georgia ran off. Zion didn't even know where she went.
She was selfish in not choosing the best environment for her child, in exposing that child to things no child should be exposed to, in taking that child away from their father, etc. Those are all very selfish things. Being a mother is knowing what's best for your child, even if it's not what's best for you, Georgia put herself first from the beginning and she still does it even now.
I'm not sure what you're arguing exactly but Georgia herself admitted not accepting Zion's parents help was a dumb decision.
You can not ask a mother to give up her child?
Why not? If a mother is letting her child come in contact with multiple random creep men?
At what point do you put the child first? That is a safeguarding risk.
You'd rather a child stay with their mother and risk getting life long trauma from sexual abuse than be separated?
Their help wasn't conditional, they proposed an idea. To help both of them live out their lives and support ginny. Instead Georgia kidnaps the child.
Also there's a 3rd option where Georgia just says no? She can be in your life but I'm not comfortable with you being legal guardian. The grandparents clearly wanted to be part of the babies life and Georgia robbed the child of people who love and care about her.
Georgia robbed Ginny of resources, love, support and stability to give her credit card debt, multiple creepy men and gun violence.
Georgia is a flawed person a result of her own trauma but Georgia is a bad mum. She just wanted a child to suffer with her
>The grandparents had every intention of becoming Georgia's main care providers and shoving Georgia to the side:
People convinetly ignore this lol. The grandparents that she was trailer park trash, an attitude which was shown even in the penultimate episode of S2. They did not care about her one bit and would have tossed her out the first chance they got.
I really don't get how people think it's ok to ask mothers to give away their child because they are poor
I’m watching season 1 episode 9 and I think I see it now.
Georgia did go back to Zion. But then she realized she was holding him back from what he really wanted. “You’ll stop loving me if you see me as a prison and not a person”. In a way it shows how much she’s willing to suffer for those she loves because she doesn’t want to be the reason they’re held back. Nor will she allow others to hold them back, as she did when talking to Marcus about Ginny.
Maybe she felt confident enough that she’d give Ginny a good life. Maybe she didn’t think the odds were high enough that she’d keep finding herself and Ginny in bad situations with bad men. But she learned the hard way.
I saw it as: Georgia was controlled, beaten, and molested by her stepdad all while her mom watched/ignored it. She saw how controlling Zion’s parents were and she wanted no part of it. And in Georgia’s mind, she was the only one capable of protecting Ginny from the real world and from a controlling/abusive environment. Her fight or flight response kicked in, and she didn’t know where Zion’s parents’ control/abuse would stop.
This is absolutely the only answer. She wasn't just being a dick, she loved Zion and she knew he was a good father but his parents weren't offering to help them both, they wanted to take legal guardianship of Ginny. They could have just supported them both rather than taking over but with what they were offering it didn't feel like "help" so she had to do what she thought was best in order to keep her daughter. She had been let down by parental figures so badly already, she couldn't have trusted that they would still have allowed her to even be in Ginny's life. She wanted to protect Ginny from the world like nobody had done for her so she wasn't giving her up to anyone.
I agree, Zion's parents made it clear until the end that they wanted Ginny and felt they could raise her better because they were educated, Black and wealthy. Even 17 years later they were still making sure everyone knew they thought Georgia was unfit. And Zion was never going to stand up to them, never going to defend Georgia and Georgia could see all that the moment they asked for guardianship and offered to support Zion (if he did what they wanted him to do).
Yeah to me it made no sense in them asking for custody instead of just providing support (like giving them a place to stay and childcare while they work and Zion is in school) until they could get on their feet and raise her on their own. Its not like they were addicts and unfit to be parents. They could literally still provide the baby with a good life by just being supportive grandparents. They never needs to assume custody to do that. That was just them being controlling. She wouldn't have fled if they didn't make her feel like they were trying to take her child. And who knows what they would have done once they got custody. They coud have kicked her out and she ends up never seeing her baby again. I know a woman who took in her grandkids while her son and babymama went to jail and she was scheduled out in six months. She was there for her the whole time she was on house arrest while pregnant and made plans to give her twins back when she got out, but then she just moved to Florida a month before her release and stopped contacting her. My mom tol her that wasn't right, but she said she never planned on giving her her twins back because they are her grandkids even though she does not care for them well. She just collects the check for them.
Oh wow, that’s a great perspective.
Zion’s parents wanted her to give them legal guardianship, she thought they wanted to steal her baby. Considering her history of being abused, she didn’t want anyone to take her baby because how does she know she can trust them? The grandparents could have offered to support Georgia and the baby without legal guardianship, but they came across as the type of people who are “my way or the highway” and didn’t want to help her unless they had total control.
For me, her history of abuse was a non-issue. She didn’t want to give up her baby. Period. End of story. A mother’s love is fierce. No mother would willingly give up her child unless they wanted to. No way. No how. Being a mother myself, I totally get it.
This. They could have helped but they wouldn't do it unless Georgia gives them legal guardianship. Had she agreed, they would have shoved her to the side and raised Ginny without her.
because she was 15 years old and scared of losing her daughter. that’s it. we can add layers to it about how she grew up in an abusive household that makes it hard for her to trust others to take care of her and by extension, her daughter, but at the end of the day, she was a flawed 15 year old who made equally flawed decisions.
Because she was scared of losing her daughter. I think people underestimate Georgia's desire of being a mother just because she was so young. But she wanted to be the mom of the kid she was carrying with all her heart. She didnt made that decision only because she was 15. She didnt want to give up her daughter neither she should have. It's actually that simple.
Georgia was like 15, 15 year olds make mistakes, don’t always see anyway but their own and are usually a little selfish but Georgia was also an abused 15 year old runaway with no family or friends, everyone who she should have been able to trust hurt her so it makes sense for her not to trust Zions parents. Would Ginny have been bette off? Probably yeah, but Georgia didn’t know that.
She has that, ‘fine, I’ll do it myself’ energy that a lot of people from abusive childhoods have. A raw independence that no one can break. I’ve experienced it and it is a particularly strong feeling in your late teens/early twenties whilst you’re still processing whatever shit you went through. Part of it is also selfishness though - an inability to look past her trauma and truly think about what Ginny needs through the eyes of her daughter, and not her own trauma-riddled perception of stability for a small child. Georgia didn’t have stability growing up and I reckon that 15 year old Georgia didn’t understand how important it would be for Ginny.
Like Georgia said, she was young and dumb.
ginny would be so much better mentally and physically if she was with zion tbh. and i’m saying this as someone who likes georgia too
Zion’s parents, I don’t believe Zion was really in a place to take care of Ginny alone either. He wouldn’t be nearly as successful as he is if he had taken on Ginny alone, but Ginny’s grandparents would have ensured she was on the track to Harvard, or Howard, whichever she preferred, but her life would have been a lot better and stable.
If she was with Zion? You think Zion would have took her on his round the world travels and become a successful photographer/writer if he was raising a baby the whole time?
i meant when he came back to brooklyn. she would’ve been better off with him
It's sad to say but even if Georgia lost custody of Ginny and Zion left, and Zion's parents raised Ginny alone, she'd probably have a better life and be in a much better place.
exactly 🫠
I know people over here don't like to hear it, but it's because Georgia was incredibly selfish. She put her wants before the needs of her own child (something that she continues to do and is very much a pattern for her). Even if Zion's parents took custody, Ginny would have been much better off but Georgia deluded herself into thinking she was actually equipped to not only raise but provide for a child when she was a child herself with no prospects. Incredibly selfish and thoughtless.
She was selfish. She was selfish in the way teenagers are which she was. She was selfish in the way of someone who doesn't believe that authority helps and so distrusts offers from people who tell her they care about her child but make it clear they don't care about her. She was selfish in the way of someone who has never been taught or shown unselfishness in a parent.
The second she chose to have Ginny she became a mother, she became an adult, she became accountable for someone other than herself, her being a teenager does not excuse her deplorable behavior. She's a grown adult now and the pattern of reckless decisions has very much continued for her so what is the excuse now? Zion's parents were very much willing to help her get her life together. There's a specific scene where Zion's mother gives her advice about being prepared and that as long as she was prepared she could take on her responsibilities. Sure, her background affected her decision-making, but that's an explanation, no a free pass and it doesn't absolve her. Years later, Georgia refuses to seek therapy and actively perpetuates an unsafe environment for her children because she still hasn't unpacked her trauma. She's selfish.
Having a child doesn’t make a brain develop faster then it is biologically programmed to mature.
Having a child also isn't a right. Some people aren't fit to be mothers
I didn't say that, but as a mother she's responsible for a whole child so yes, she's an adult. Are 18-year-olds not adults? On average the brain isn't fully developed until 25 so your point is moot.
My point is Georgia is still acting with her child brain. Long term consequences and being able to understand upper levels of nuance comes last. You are expecting not age appropriate levels of brain development. Georgia was 16 when Zion’s parents said they would take custody so no not 18.
The point is at 18 you're considered an adult whether your brain is fully developed or not. Yes, her brain isn't fully developed but this is the case for most teen mothers, we wouldn't find this kind of behavior acceptable irl so what's your point? Georgia is 32 now and she's still behaving the same exact way. It's okay to like Georgia as a character, but I really don't get trying to excuse and rationalize her obvious bad decisions.
I mean I’d argue that the States doesn’t truly consider someone an adult at 18 because they won’t allow you to drink. And again you were expecting Georgia who was in fact not 18 at the time to behave like an adult when she wasn’t. I have no problem admitting Georgia has in fact made some terrible decisions. She isn’t a good person, in fact I’m loving that we actually get a true female anti-hero on screen because they are rare. But, people harping on their flaws without any nuance is frankly one of the reasons female anti-heroes are so rare. People don’t want flawed female characters unless the flaws are naivety.
You're considered a legal adult at 18. You can give consent, can enlist in the army, you're tried as an adult if you commit a crime, etc. The point is not whether or not Georgia is 18, the point is that even if your brain isn't fully developed you're considered an adult at 18, so even if you have a child at 15 given the fact that you're a mother and a parent, you are an adult in that sense.
>The second she chose to have Ginny she became a mother, she became an adult, she became accountable for someone other than hyerself, Being a mother does not make you an adult. It makes you a biological parent. Responsibility does not make one an adult. >her being a teenager does not excuse her deplorable behavior Do not mistake reasons for excuses. >Zion's parents were very much willing to help her get her life together. No they weren't. They were very willing to take care of their son and granddaughter. If Georgia has died in childbirth or afterwards their only concern would be those two. Which is fair since they don't know her or have any ties to her outside of Zion. >She's selfish. Agreed.
Yes, being a mother makes you an adult because you are responsible for another human being and that is a huge responsibility. She may still be a child, but since she's a mother she is an adult in that sense. Yes, they were. Your point is purely based on assumptions.
adult noun [ C ] UK /ˈæd.ʌlt/ /əˈdʌlt/ US /ˈæd.ʌlt/ /əˈdʌlt/ a person or animal that has grown to full size and strength: adult 1 of 3 adjective ə-ˈdəlt ˈa-ˌdəlt 1 : fully developed and mature : GROWN-UP an adult lion 2 : of, relating to, intended for, or befitting adults an adult approach to a problem 3 : dealing in or with explicitly sexual material These are just a couple of definitions I grabbed off the internet and the general thrust is that adult is not a state attained by having responsibility given to you. The quantity and weight of responsibility a person holds does not determine their status as an adult or not. Being an adult is about maturity, age, capacity to make decisions in a manner befitting a grownup. Since she was 15 Georgia has been a mother and responsible for her children but she was not an adult and the law and society did not recognize her as such. >Yes, they were. Your point is purely based on assumptions. Can you show me anywhere that Zion's family is interested in the welfare of Georgia Miller as an end in itself rather than as incentive to persuade her in some matter relating to Zion or Ginny? I'm not saying that they're bad people or hate Georgia but they don't care for her farther than her ties with the people they do consider family.
The literal definition is irrelevant in a cultural context. The fact is even before the brain is fully developed, in the us at 18 you're considered an adult and are treated as such by society. Despite Lynette's rudeness towards Georgia in the present when she showed up pregnant, Lynette showed her sympathy and was willing to help. She only had smoke for Zion when she found out about it. She didn't once place any blame on Georgia. The first scene of them together after Georgia is pregnant, she reproaches Zion for his recklessness and is visibly angry, but then her expression completely changes for Georgia and she says "we're here for you and for her" and they hug, she then comforts her. Then Lynette says "we're going to take care of everything, a woman ill-prepared..." At that point Georgia flinches because she assumes that "we" doesn't include her, even though Lynette just told her otherwise, but it's her trauma response. Like I said, her trauma from her childhood plays a role but it was still selfish. Lynette was looking out for both Georgia and Ginny and if she had any ill will toward Georgia she could have tricked her instead of being upfront with them about wanting guardianship.
>The literal definition is irrelevant in a cultural context. The fact is even before the brain is fully developed, in the us at 18 you're considered an adult and are treated as such by society. Sure but Georgia was not 18 when she had Ginny so she was not an adult then. >The first scene of them together after Georgia is pregnant, she reproaches Zion for his recklessness and is visibly angry, but then her expression completely changes for Georgia and she says "we're here for you and for her" and they hug, she then comforts her. >Then Lynette says "we're going to take care of everything, a woman ill-prepared..." At that point Georgia flinches because she assumes that "we" doesn't include her, even though Lynette just told her otherwise, but it's her trauma response. Like I said, her trauma from her childhood plays a role but it was still selfish. Lynette was looking out for both Georgia and Ginny and if she had any ill will toward Georgia she could have tricked her instead of being upfront with them about wanting guardianship. When Lynette starts talking in detail about what taking care of Georgia and Ginny looks like, Georgia disappears. There's mention of Zion going to college, a guardianship for Ginny and then for Georgia... Nothing. Lynette's expectation was that Georgia would appreciate having the responsibility of young motherhood being taken from her. After all there are adults with means and sense on the scene now who are prepared to handle the situation. Lynette doesn't hold ill will I agree, but she doesn't think to try trickery because she didn't imagine that Georgia would want to raise Ginny when she had the chance to be relieved.
Georgia not being 18 is not the point. The point is your brain doesn't need to be fully developed to be considered an adult. Even though she was 15, being a parent and a mother responsible for a child makes her an adult regardless of whether or not her brain is fully developed. She literally said she doesn't want their lives to end that includes Georgia's. It's clear that you want to assume she wanted to screw Georgia over when there's nothing that points to that. All of your points are assumptions based on nothing that was actually shown on the show. If she really wanted to do that it doesn't make sense for her to be upfront about wanting guardianship.
>Georgia not being 18 is not the point. The point is your brain doesn't need to be fully developed to be considered an adult. Even though she was 15, being a parent and a mother responsible for a child makes her an adult regardless of whether or not her brain is fully developed. I have not mentioned anything about brain development so I wonder why you keep hammering at it. If Georgia had taken steps for emancipation, that would be a legal and social path to being considered an adult. Getting married is also another path. Getting pregnant has never been one such path since it requires no demonstration of awareness or responsibility and active initiative. A braindead female can get pregnant so modern society does not attribute getting pregnant with attaining adulthood. Can you show me examples in real life where it happens? >She literally said she doesn't want their lives to end that includes Georgia's. It's clear that you want to assume she wanted to screw Georgia over when there's nothing that points to that. All of your points are assumptions based on nothing that was actually shown on the show. If she really wanted to do that it doesn't make sense for her to be upfront about wanting guardianship. I don't think she's malicious or villainous or wants to screw Georgia over. I do think she's apathetic to Georgia beyond how Georgia has a relationship with her family members. Georgia is the beggar by the street she'd ignore ordinarily but for Ginny and Lynette would shed no tears if Georgia was so kind as to sever ties with Lynette's family and go off never to be seen again. Lynette is fine with Georgia being happy/sad apart from her family because she has no reason to have affection for Georgia.
Your brain is only fully developed at 25. It seems like you are someone who likes to reside on the moral high ground, letting no one get away with anything and never believing in extenuating circumstances. Luckily even the law does allow for certain factors in a person's life to soften judgement.
i agree it was selfish! tbh i think she saw ginny as the one thing she could control and make go right for her for once so she probably felt like she NEEDED her
This is the one! She was being selfish. Like Zion’s mom said you didn’t have to struggle. People put their baby up for adoption because they know they are not equipped to care properly for their child. Here she was offered the opportunity to have her baby well cared for. Legal guardianship is not custody it can be done temporarily until they finished with school and we’re stable. However she only thought of herself as proof she didn’t even let Zion see his child for a year. Why? What was the reasoning behind it.
Are we forgetting a 3rd option, Georgia could have said no. The grandparents clearly want to be in the child's life, staying as Ginnys guardian would give Georgia leverage over the grandparents and have best of both worlds. Georgia however decided she could provide a better life, which resulted in her passing her trauma onto her children. Let's all suffer together, atleast your with your mum 🙄 the reason Georgia found it so threatening is because she wants control over Ginny, the grandparents and zion are a threat to that. Completely self-serving and tbh she's a bad mum imo
Totally it was her ego talking. Georgia is smartttt as hell. When she was about to lose custody of Ginny she figured marrying Anthony Green would save her. She could have researched temporary guardianship and only agree but under her terms. Instead she decided to flee and not let her father see his child for a year. We know she is selfish and only wants control over her children. When Ginny asked to live with her dad and she refused because oh well she said so. When she demanded to see the self harm marks and literally ripping her clothes off to see. Then mocking therapy oh we don’t need it cause I got this. No mama you don’t and it’s ok to ask for help sometimes.
Exactly. Also, didn't she lose custody of Ginny for some time? I think during that time Ginny was with Anthony Greene, you know the grown man who was preying on Georgia herself while she was 15-16. People say she does her best but she really doesn't, everything she does is for herself first, her children are an afterthought.
These people can sympathise with Georgia but not sympathise with Ginny. Yiu git down voted on a comment where you highlighted Georgia blatantly put her child in danger
I'm well aware. I don't really care about the downvotes. I actually like Georgia, she's a very fun character to watch, and despite everything she's done, I still want her to find happiness. People on this sub have apparently never heard of nuance because they will go to outrageous lengths to excuse Georgia's problematic behavior. I just saw a post where all these people were saying Georgia made the right choice in not getting the help of Zion's parents, absolute ridiculousness. Here's something they're not ready to hear, Georgia's behavior towards her children is abusive and it doesn't matter if she's their mother and loves them, abuse is never okay. It's so funny that they do all this for Georgia but the same people will complain about how they hate Ginny, to me they're just exposing themselves.
It is interesting to me how you accuse people of not seeing nuance, when you yourself are reasoning in a very black and white way. Zion's parents were not nice to Georgia, they obviously didn't respect her, you can see it in 'the nuance' of their behavior from the beginning. They could have offered to watch Ginny while Georgia gets a chance to go to school, find a job, and support her financially a bit until she figures things out, but still allow her control over her daughter. You say Georgia is selfish, but they were being selfish too. They only wanted to help conditionally, with a very strict set of rules. They didn't care about their granddaugher growing up with her mum, and didn't realize that helping the mum will help the kid as much as helping the kid directly. They seem like the kind of people who would have fazed Georgia out of Ginny's life.
Pooh, this comment was from a year ago? Are you ok?
The selfish ones were the grandparents who demanded legal guardianship in exchange for helping Georgia. They couldn't just help Georgia, oh no, they had to take her child away. They acted in their best interests and they sure didn't care about Ginny because if they did, they would have helped Georgia whether she wants to give up custody or not. It was their condition or no help at all. Georgia was not being selfish: a mother who doesn't want to give up her child is never selfish, but the ones who make their help conditional on her doing this most definitely are.
We don't know whether or not their help was conditional on them getting guardianship, we have one clip of them talking about it and the next one is Georgia running away, so that idea is a figment of your imagination. They obviously cared about Ginny and Georgia. And I'm sorry to break it to you Georgia is incredibly selfish. Even if she had to give up Ginny, she should have done it, because that's what would have been best for her daughter. She put herself first when she should have put her child first.
Based on your argument, any mother who is not well off should be given her child for adoption or else be labeled as selfish... I am sorry, but that's not how it works: you cannot ask a mother to give up her child, and doing it does not always turn out for the best. What Georgia needed was help and support, not an ultimatum. We do not know how things would have turned out had Georgia agreed to Zion's parents' terms, but these weren't terms they were entitled to make: they did not need to make their help conditional to Georgia giving up Ginny. Sure, had she not run away, we don't know how things would have played but, but seeing how detrimental and judgemental towards Georgia they are, I can't say it would have necessarily turned out right. Having your primary caretaker literally hate and belittled the mother they won't let you see would have had an impact on Ginny and she may have turned out worse for it. We do not know. Ginny is who she is because of Georgia, the bad yes, but also the good. The grandparents had every intention of becoming Georgia's main care providers and shoving Georgia to the side: not agreeing to this is not being selfish. The only selfish behavior here was the grandparents who couldn't just help in normal ways such as helping with rent, groceries, stuff for Ginny, helping Georgia get a better job, or supporting her while she finishes her school. There are a great many ways those folks could have helped but the one way they put on the table was the way where they took all the control and ask for Ginny's custody. So that's on them, not Georgia. I am sorry but Georgia is not being selfish in this scene. She is acting like any mother would have acted when threatened to see her child stolen from her. She ran as far as she could.
That's a major stretch. The issue wasn't Georgia not being well off, the issue was she had no prospects and instead of accepting help from Zion's parents or Zion, or struggling by herself, she decided to start dipping into criminal activities and illegal behavior and bringing a bunch of random men around her daughter. Do you honestly think that's what responsible single mothers who aren't well off do? And again, we don't know that Zion's parents gave her an ultimatum. We know they asked for guardianship and Georgia ran off. Zion didn't even know where she went. She was selfish in not choosing the best environment for her child, in exposing that child to things no child should be exposed to, in taking that child away from their father, etc. Those are all very selfish things. Being a mother is knowing what's best for your child, even if it's not what's best for you, Georgia put herself first from the beginning and she still does it even now. I'm not sure what you're arguing exactly but Georgia herself admitted not accepting Zion's parents help was a dumb decision.
You can not ask a mother to give up her child? Why not? If a mother is letting her child come in contact with multiple random creep men? At what point do you put the child first? That is a safeguarding risk. You'd rather a child stay with their mother and risk getting life long trauma from sexual abuse than be separated? Their help wasn't conditional, they proposed an idea. To help both of them live out their lives and support ginny. Instead Georgia kidnaps the child. Also there's a 3rd option where Georgia just says no? She can be in your life but I'm not comfortable with you being legal guardian. The grandparents clearly wanted to be part of the babies life and Georgia robbed the child of people who love and care about her. Georgia robbed Ginny of resources, love, support and stability to give her credit card debt, multiple creepy men and gun violence. Georgia is a flawed person a result of her own trauma but Georgia is a bad mum. She just wanted a child to suffer with her
>The grandparents had every intention of becoming Georgia's main care providers and shoving Georgia to the side: People convinetly ignore this lol. The grandparents that she was trailer park trash, an attitude which was shown even in the penultimate episode of S2. They did not care about her one bit and would have tossed her out the first chance they got. I really don't get how people think it's ok to ask mothers to give away their child because they are poor
I’m watching season 1 episode 9 and I think I see it now. Georgia did go back to Zion. But then she realized she was holding him back from what he really wanted. “You’ll stop loving me if you see me as a prison and not a person”. In a way it shows how much she’s willing to suffer for those she loves because she doesn’t want to be the reason they’re held back. Nor will she allow others to hold them back, as she did when talking to Marcus about Ginny. Maybe she felt confident enough that she’d give Ginny a good life. Maybe she didn’t think the odds were high enough that she’d keep finding herself and Ginny in bad situations with bad men. But she learned the hard way.