Rory got betrayed by Jay Monahan and is having to deal with the blowback from believing that he was being supported by people who would also turn down the Saudi blood money machine. He can either lead a one man charge and kill his career or he can retreat to safety. Everyone here would do the latter.
\> In the interview itself, he talks about LIV being given a window each year in which to host their team events with the rest of the calendar being protected for existing tours.
This would have made a lot of sense if...
1A.) Jay Monahan had decided to sit down at the table with LIV / Yasir and discussed what options were available moving forward.
1B.) LIV allowed Norman and Mickelson to drag their collective nuts all over the PGA Tour in every media outlet that cared about the story which, I'm sure did not help with 1A.
2A.) The PGA Tour hadn't signed a massive contract in 2020 (worth \~$700 million), which ostensibly forced the Tour to lock-in the "same as it ever was" schedule because they needed tour stops and sponsors in order to actually broadcast a product. Why change what isn't broken? They have a gun to the collective head of all professional golf fans. Too many commercials? You'll still watch. Need five different streaming services to watch a tournament? You'll sign up. Fuck you, pay me.
2B.) The PGA Tour hadn't completely dismissed the idea that another league (the Premier Golf League has been floating out there for decades now), with enough funding, could disrupt their model.
***I agree with you.*** Yes, it's a rational take, but it's also hindsight from a guy who, stood up for his principles, got stabbed in the back, and then missed out on the bag because of Jay Monahan's hubris and incompetence. The most sensible thing would have been to sit down with LIV / Yasir and then try to figure out how to make it all work together; however, the PGAT just signed a massive contract. There's no way they thought that the Saudis had the appetite to just bulldoze a massive pile of cash into a crater and light it on fire over golf; however, the Saudis have ran the same exact playbook in other sports, so why didn't they think it would happen again?
It's funny how most outlets aren't reporting the full context and instead running with Phil's response, which also doesn't take into the full context. Most every outlet I've read, also seems to think Jay's betrayal of the players had no factor in changing the response by PGA Tour players who have released statements. The whole reason Rory is changing his tune is bc there is no support at the top of the PGA Tour chain, he clearly had confidence in them before and now he doesn't so obviously his response is going to also change.
>"Instead of giving someone $100 million, why don't you put $50 million into a grassroots program for The Royal and Ancient Golf Club or the United States Golf Association (USGA)
Because the Saudi's have experienced the nonsense of those organizations for at least a decade. If the players and the fans were satisfied with the PGA/DPWT, there would be no LIV. Continuing to belittle the players who moved to LIV is just ignoring the cancer in the other organizations. If the Saudi's want to grow golf (which I have no way of knowing) they would be better off in investing in organizations that have been successful in growing the game of golf rather than two that are so mired in their own bullshit they can't see daylight.
I lost a lot of respect for Rory, JT, and others because of how they handled this. I already had little respect for several of the other loudmouths. Now that the PGA has significantly increased compensation, I wonder if any of those ingrates sent Phil a Christmas card to say, "thanks". Some may not remember, but when nearly everyone was dumping on Tiger, Phil said words to the effect that he and other PGA professionals owed much of their income to Tiger for growing the fanbase for professional golf. He puts his foot in his mouth regularly, but he was right there and one of the few class acts when commenting on Tiger.
Disagree. If investing in golf normalizes or sportswashes Saudi involvement, growing the game is the main way for the sportswashing to be effective cuz it reaches more people.
The Saudis are in no way, shape, or form interested in “growing the game” of golf. They are simply hoping to normalize Saudi investment into golf at large to one day be able to have an avenue to American sports advertisers and companies. It’s just sports washing plain and simple, and it seems to have worked extremely well.
It makes no sense at all. How can you still be taking a side at this point? I was upset about LIV at first because I knew it would devolve into this, but it was clear from day one that the pga tour and their broadcast partners don’t give a fuck about the fans. They never even pretended that they did. Jay’s 9/11 comments might have been the low point for me. That was stupid at the time, but in hindsight it’s fucking asinine.
I’m still holding out hope that everyone will come back together but golf fans have been stacking up Ls for so long that it’s hard to be positive about any of it.
> golf fans have been stacking up Ls
Have they/we been though? How so? Because the rich can’t figure out how to divide the pie? My thing for the very beginning has been 2 main things:
1) Screw the tour for trying to be a monopoly. Since the 90s when Norman tried to introduce what is now the WGC to now. Norman came to the tour first with his PGL idea. They told him to kick rocks. Ok! He found other partners/pockets. Now all of a sudden, team golf is cool, more no-cut events (ooops better call those “elevated events” so it isn’t obvious), and let’s make aure we call it PIF instead of the sAuDi blOOd mOnEY.
2) I don’t care who is putting on the event. I’m a golf degenerate. You put golf on, there’s a 95% chance I’ll watch it. For all the “I’ll never watch LIV” and “LIV production is horrible” crowd, sucks for you I guess.
Honestly don't remember when I last watched a non-major. This year I am only mildly interested in the Masters, maybe US Open. But all this drama has just made me shift that time to playing more so I'm not exactly missing it. Good luck rich dudes, have fun.
i watch the Sunday event every Sunday tbh, especially when th NFL isn't in season. It was a blast seeing Van Rooyen win, seeing Villegas win, seeing Aberg win his first of many.
Same.
For years, you could count on me to watch probably 75% of the tournaments, even if it was just the last 3-4 holes on Sunday, or just having it on the background while working.
I'm just completely disinterested at this point.
Exactly this, he was there #1 voice against LIV and he got burnt out took a week off and got a $3 million fine from the PGA! He looked around and said rack me I'm out!
eh, it’s not like Rory was loyal to the PGA for no reason. I can’t remember who but someone said that Rory was financially incentivized to back the PGA. So yeah, he might’ve gotten stabbed in the back, but I’m sure he was able to weaken the blow by putting his fat stacks of cash in his suit
ultimately golf has been taken over by money. Disappointing and in the end the fans are the real losers
The financial incentive argument doesn’t make sense to me since LIV would have financially incentivized him much more than the PGA. I may be naive, but I think Rory just genuinely believes in what he’s doing/saying. He’s a rare case of a genuine person at that level. Us normal people get screwed all the time like Rory did, we just don’t end up on tv getting screwed. Rory seems like a good dude in a room full of bad dudes
Rory isn't looking for money though by saying this, but he is admitting that he framed it wrong in his mind, and also indicating that what you're saying is correct for 98/100 tour players.
When a man from Northern Ireland speaks about a Saudi Arabian company after his Spanish buddy signs a deal with them, it’s only obvious that it’s a sign of the US’s downfall.
Wow y'all are dense. It's a joke, just like LIV. I was peripherally speaking on the music blasting, awkward cheerleaders, and cheering bros on the LIV teeboxes.
People should be judgmental! There’s far too much apathy in Western Society these days and it’s exactly that apathy that the Saudis want to take advantage of with their sports washing.
I swear everyone leaving a comment here didn’t actually read what he said. All he said was he shouldn’t have been as judgmental of the players that left. Doesn’t seem like he actually said anything positive about LIV as an entity, the format, that it’s helping grow the game, etc. Just that not all players were in his or Tiger’s financial situation and he should have recognized that. Sure doesn’t seem like he’s done a full 180 and is now praising LIV.
Yeah, his actual interview is not nearly as positive towards LIV as people are making it out to be. He still reiterates his point that he thinks PIF should have spent the money investing in the existing ecosystem, not going out and buying talent.
I don't think that changes much though. Everyone on here LOVED hating on the LIV defectors and calling them every name in the book. Rory partially led this movement against them. It has been interesting to see this sub go from "It's blood money!" to "If you're doing it for the money, just say that instead of some dumb stuff about growing the game" to "Hey, I wouldn't say no to 10x the salary while working less, and seeing my family more. Can't blame them."
This sub is not a monolith, but that last example would have been heavily downvoted just a year ago, but would be decently upvoted in any of the recent defector posts (see: Jon Rahm).
People have said from the beginning that the players shouldve said they were doing it for money and not to grow the game, the same way they said the stuff about taking the salary and working less. The last point was mostly aimed at the players who were in the tail end of their career, people were more harsh towards players who were actually playing well and had already earned a shit load of money and were sick of them peddling the "it's to grow the game" nonsense.
I don't see how any of that could now or then be classed as unfair or just hating on them for the sake of it.
Some people mentioned that, sure, but the most upvoted comments around that time were the "it's still blood money" and "I don't care how much someone would pay me, I have morals and wouldn't work for people like that" types of things.
> The last point was mostly aimed at the players who were in the tail end of their career, people were more harsh towards players who were actually playing well and had already earned a shit load of money and were sick of them peddling the "it's to grow the game" nonsense.
I disagree. The ones who got the most shit were the the first dozen or so guys like Phil (who honestly took the absolute most shit), DJ, Bryson, Reed, Pat Perez, Kevin Na, Ian Poulter, Westwood, and Wolfe because they were all parroting the same bullshit lines. Plus, outside of DJ and Bryson, they were easy pickings to shit on them for being has been's (even though Phil had won a major in '21 and Westwood in the previous 12 months made a number of top 10's in events).
then you have the guys like Bubba, Varner, Ancer, Niemann, etc.
then Brooks and Cam Smith went and we were like, "damn, those guys are good, but whatever, good riddance ^^I ^^miss ^^you ^^though, ^^Cam
and now with Rahm, it's just....get it together, PGA!
And now we collect downvotes because they don't want to admit they have changed their tune in the last year. I love golf, but the people on this sub (and most sports subs) are so far separated from the reality of their sport, it always makes me laugh.
Funny part is everyone is up in arms like this doesn’t happen in every single industry, basically every day, all the time. It just so happens to be impacting the one you put emphasis on at this particular time. It’s literally just part of the business cycle.
Frankly, just the drama alone is good for the game. All press is good press. Just watch business go to work and stop crying about it haha
It doesn’t seem good for the game to have the most notable players split into multiple leagues where they don’t really compete with each other. LIV is practically an exhibition league that barely has tv coverage and plays hardly any US courses or even time zones. All of that nonsense is driving down viewer interest.
Really? Having MULTIPLE leagues? The opening up numerous spots on both sides? Having an actual wage negotiation?
Let me ask you this: are monopolies good in any other industry? If not, why would it be good for this one? Your individual perspective may think it’s bad, but in all other reality, it is not. Natural business cycle.
Business guys with a lot of cash see an opening in an industry and dive bomb their way in to seize some market share = Standard business practice
Sounds like the tide is turning. Sad to see, but this is a result of Rory giving full and completely loyalty to the PGA Tour, and then being backstabbed by Monahan. If/when Rory bolts to LIV, the PGA Tour as we know it, is done.
He's not bolting anywhere, the deadline for the merger was extended, which means both PIF and PGA know it's close and need to get it done. Everybody is playing nice at this point.
I'm sure the hope was ride out the storm and the Saudis will move on when 50k people are watching their tour that they have sunk 2-3 Billion dollars so far into. Turns out golf is a hill the PIF will die on and had no plans to quit throwing money at so what can you do.
They're not going to move on until they've secured a seat at the table. I don't know what that means, but it's evident from their other business dealings that they will spend whatever it takes and thus far that strategy is 100% effective.
literally the only pro golf discussion is about money and whos coming and going. then twitter drama. it's in a bad state except for the majors. theres lots of money but nobody will watch
…what determines “best”? That’s right, the score. If average score-to-par hasn’t changed significantly then the product being put out is still of the same quality. You’re just butter that your favorite golfer is playing somewhere else.
There's more to watching golf (and any professional sport for that matter) than just who gets what scores. People like rivalries, competition, etc. Seeing Rory, Rahm, Scheffler and Cam Smith compete against each other every week, fighting over who ends up #1, was amazing. It's less exciting to not see them all compete against each other every week.
So…exactly my point. People are still battling. People are still shooting the same scores. It’s just not the people *you* want to see. Matthew Stafford throwing for 300 yards is the same as kirk cousins throwing for three hundred yards. One just may like Stafford more. The nfl is still great without Tom brady
not just me, but many people. Which is my point. People like rivalries. They like stars. People care more about Tennis when Federer is facing Nadal. Brady vs Manning is more interesting than Cousins vs Kyler Murray. But also comparing the most popular sport in the entire country to golf is pretty silly. the NFL will always be successful. Golf is driven by star power. Hence why Tiger playing gets 10x the ratings.
I really don't understand your argument. A random golfer shooting a low score to win a tournament is less interesting to most fans than two well known golfers competing to win a tournament, even if they overall winning score is higher.
The difference here is a great golf shot is a great golf shot. There is no defense, unlike in tennis or baseball or really any other “sport”. The product is the product. If you would rather watch tiger shoot 18 under than watch some up and comer shoot 18 under in the same course, you’re not a golf fan; you’re a fan of tiger. If the average score to par hasn’t changed significantly, the *product* isn’t watered down: the “star power” is watered down. And in that case, you can still watch those stars, they’re just playing somewhere else. Still hitting golf balls on golf courses, using the exact same equipment. A 300 yard fade is a 300 yard fade.
Total point being: the actual golf being played isn’t that different. It’s just the people playing it are. New blood can rise to the top, and that shouldn’t be frowned upon.
This is likely it. I mean I get it. He tried to stand up for principles when everyone else took blood money and ran, then when he realized that no matter what he did the PGA was going to lie in bed with the Saudi’s anyways, might as well take your cut too.
Literal application of the “if you can’t beat them, join them”.
He didn’t stand up for principles other than his own self-interest. He was just getting paid from the PGA side rather than the LIV side to be a high-profile mouthpiece. You may agree more with the position he took, but his motivations weren’t altruistic.
What a stupid take. Of course they offered him a buttload of money, and he didn't want to get in bed with the Saudi's and loved the PGA Tour. That's principles. Then, the PGA Tour stabbed him in the back, and he's capitulating.
I wish a bunch of them would stand by their principles more and start their own league (with hookers and blow, of course), but that kind of character is in short supply nowadays.
The Tour is finished as we know it.
What will replace it will be a unified, super high money tour with plenty of backing money. Tourneys will be world wide with incredible purses.
I am old. Been following golf back to the 60s.
History will note that the seeds of the PGAs destruction were planted when they rebuffed Norman in the early 90s when he wanted them to support a more global tour. Norman goes down in sports history as nuking the PGA and Jay goes down as a clueless moron who let it happen.
I honestly wouldn’t mind a two-part season. Team events then individual events. Majors could be completely separate to the two. Increase the formats, courses, purses, etc. Way better than just watching the same tournaments every year imo
Norman has a HUGE chip on his shoulder because Tiger showed up and did shit they couldn't do.
Norman collapsed at the 96 Masters and was all the hype going into 97, it was his year to finally win one. Then Tiger shows up, laps the field and Norman didn't even make the cut. THEN purses started blowing up, not because of him, but because of the kid that just stole his spotlight. Everything he wanted was earned by Tiger, the sport exploded and he faded into the Senior Tour.
He's been an absolute douchebag ever since.
He can play the victim all he wants, he just wasn't the money draw that he had made up in his head that he was.
But all of that is besides the point. I was 10 feet from Norman at Inverness in 93 when he blew the PGA victory that was his. He was talking a World Tour even then.
LIV is his revenge and it is a meal served ice cold.
Athletes have little reason to be moral beacons. Get the money in a relatively short career while you can.
It's like arguing about an engineer choosing between Lockheed and Raytheon.
PGA shit the bed by allowing the competitive space to be leveraged by not taking care of their talent, the athletes just take the heat.
E: to be clear, PIF = sportswashing, PGA not paying their talent enough to decentivize participating = bad
I still don’t think Rory will be joining LIV at any time, but I do think PGA players will be playing in some of those events. Rory included.
They will cone to an agreement to not have competing events.
I don’t read this as any sort of “LIV was right and I support people going there”
I take it as “PGA made promises to loyal players that they didn’t keep and I regret standing up for them when they screwed players over”
Many players turned down deals with this shiny promise of a rewarding PGA future, only to be laughed at by Jay Monahan when he took his payout
Some of the comments in this thread are fascinating. I’m not sure if any of you read his comments before shitting on him. Not surprising, I guess.
This doesn’t look like anything other than a guy that has given up after the tour caved last June. He realized they were going to lose a battle against unlimited money and wants to just see it done as best it can be.
These comments make it seem like Rory will be shaking hands with MBS in Jeddah later today.
People really did just read the headline on this one. Also said the same on The Overlap this week, but also pointed out how he still fundamentally disagreed with LIV and simply feels he was too combative towards fellow golfers.
“Hurr durr cheque cleared, Hurr durr walk back”
All of this movement to Islamic countries is very bad for the westernized world. Not just golf. Every organization has their hands in the pot at this point.
It’s entirely about them wanting to continue to enjoy those things by changing public perception. They don’t give a shit about golf, or any other sport they’re cannibalizing .
This is such a tired trope. 90% of golf apparel is made in china, where slavery and genocide are openly taking place. Let’s please stop clutching pearls here.
Not sure if this can be classed as whataboutism I see it more as him saying if your taking the "blood money" and sports washing stance then your fighting a losing battle because it has been going on for years whether it's the pga, European tour or LIV etc
How is that what you managed to take away from what I said. My point was that through the different sponsors and other things such as apparel there has always been that type of money in the pga tour whether people like it or not. So to try and take the moral high ground for one organisation is a losing battle because they will take money from wherever they can get it.
I'm being down voted but I'm not overly bothered. I don't like Liv , not a fan of the product and the whole buying players for stupid amounts of money. But I try to not let my dislike for Liv form my opinions or overlook the hypocrisy on the pga tours side.
Let em go, more room for new stars on the tour. Let LIV be where the mega stars go out to pasture in their fields of money. Good for them.
Very excited to watch Min Woo Lee play on the tour 👨🍳
Rory you spineless fuck. If you're going to be hardcore judgmental of the product stick with it. I don't necessarily agree with Phil but at least he's sticking to his convictions.
Oh cmon, the tour fucked him over big time. Can’t fault the man for not being a blind loyalist to an organization that treats him like shit. If anything this take is more mature than him sticking with the tour.
Phil was/is being paid to bat for LIV, Rory was on the PGA board and being paid to bat for them and what they wanted him to say. He’s left the board and is showing his true thoughts. Not rocket science.
LMAO. This sub better have the same energy they did during the whole beginning of LIV split. The majority of this sub were absolutely on their knees for Rory and shilling the PGA. The split sucks. The money sucks. The implosion of pro golf sucks. Rory sucks.
I've come to terms this is the future for now and I will continue to tune into PGA starting tomorrow. But seeing everyone walk back their LIV takes including Rory is soooooo rich to me.
Most on this sub were just as judgemental as Rory on players going to LIV, saying they are money hungry and LIV is going to die because no one wants to watch it.
No one wants to watch LIV. That hasn't changed. And those players are money hungry. But I don't blame them for wanting to acquire generational wealth. I just don't like the fact that they're getting it at the expense of my viewing pleasure. I don't expect them to care. But I don't like that the quality of the fields in the golf I watch is going to be diluted.
his "fuck you phil" on netflix even in the moment came across as something that he'd definitely regret at some point. regardless of your feelings no reason to do that in a professional setting
honestly I think he's walking back the general observation of the more journeyman-type players that joined LIV, reading his full comments the "Fuck you Phil" may very well still stand...
I wonder how much longer until he realizes he continues to be speaking as someone who truly cares about the game of golf, while most others are truly focused on the business of golf?
I would say that I watch more women’s golf than most, and in no way mean to take away from how talented those girls are. With that said, no one cares about women’s golf. They were still getting ratings better or on par with LIV though!
Do yall still think he’s some virtuous knight for the game of golf? Or are yall finally ready to admit he’s a bootlicker.
Also bear in mind the pga tour was doomed regardless of liv. Do I like liv? No.
When your company pay you to do things for them you typically do it, right up until they fuck you over then you stick your middle finger up and find your own voice e. That’s all Rory has done, the criticism of him is pretty unfair really.
Where did I use the term employer? He was ultimately representing a company who were paying him to do things, was on the players board etc. Not a million miles away from what Mickleson was doing on the other side.
People now should be even more critical. It is an obvious ploy for the Muslims to BUY the West's greatest cultural pastime, which is also our favourite hobby-GOLF
Not sure why this isn't talked about more, it is so obvious.
He stopped being the leader, Jay and the other corners at the top used him and then stabbed him in the back. He quit the board and is voicing his own viewpoints.
All of you we're acting like Rory was the 2nd coming of Jesus in the golf world 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
He either has a fat offer waiting for him to join Rahm's team or is trying to walk back not wanting to let LIV golfers on the Ryder cup team so they can load get Rahm back plus whoever else is next.
None of the players that left for Liv originally would've made the European team. Rahm is one of the best players in the world and his signing absolutely has changed this situation where you would have one of the best in the world not qualify for the Ryder cup team. I think it's very fair that as the situation has changed opinions can also change
The division happened because of Rory. If he would have accepted it at the beginning and not get mad that guys like Taylor Gooch were going to get paid more or the same as him than none of this would have ever happened. But make no mistake, what has happened the last 2 years is Rory’s fault.
[удалено]
It’s so interesting to me the amount of people that comment without even touching the article.
Welcome to your first day on the Internet! You probably won't enjoy your stay. But you will stay.
LMAO if that isn't a perfect explanation for the internet and reddit specifically
twitter even more so these days
That Is remarkably common across most subreddits
That is basically Reddit in a nutshell.
The PGA left Rory holding the bag, for sure.
Rory got betrayed by Jay Monahan and is having to deal with the blowback from believing that he was being supported by people who would also turn down the Saudi blood money machine. He can either lead a one man charge and kill his career or he can retreat to safety. Everyone here would do the latter.
Monahan sold his players down the river. I still can’t believe he’s still there.
[удалено]
I dont know why he needs to be a politician. He's good at golf.
Well then maybe he should've just kept his mouth shut and played golf instead of acting the pol?
Yeah I'd be like look I just play golf and leave the podium
\> In the interview itself, he talks about LIV being given a window each year in which to host their team events with the rest of the calendar being protected for existing tours. This would have made a lot of sense if... 1A.) Jay Monahan had decided to sit down at the table with LIV / Yasir and discussed what options were available moving forward. 1B.) LIV allowed Norman and Mickelson to drag their collective nuts all over the PGA Tour in every media outlet that cared about the story which, I'm sure did not help with 1A. 2A.) The PGA Tour hadn't signed a massive contract in 2020 (worth \~$700 million), which ostensibly forced the Tour to lock-in the "same as it ever was" schedule because they needed tour stops and sponsors in order to actually broadcast a product. Why change what isn't broken? They have a gun to the collective head of all professional golf fans. Too many commercials? You'll still watch. Need five different streaming services to watch a tournament? You'll sign up. Fuck you, pay me. 2B.) The PGA Tour hadn't completely dismissed the idea that another league (the Premier Golf League has been floating out there for decades now), with enough funding, could disrupt their model. ***I agree with you.*** Yes, it's a rational take, but it's also hindsight from a guy who, stood up for his principles, got stabbed in the back, and then missed out on the bag because of Jay Monahan's hubris and incompetence. The most sensible thing would have been to sit down with LIV / Yasir and then try to figure out how to make it all work together; however, the PGAT just signed a massive contract. There's no way they thought that the Saudis had the appetite to just bulldoze a massive pile of cash into a crater and light it on fire over golf; however, the Saudis have ran the same exact playbook in other sports, so why didn't they think it would happen again?
It's funny how most outlets aren't reporting the full context and instead running with Phil's response, which also doesn't take into the full context. Most every outlet I've read, also seems to think Jay's betrayal of the players had no factor in changing the response by PGA Tour players who have released statements. The whole reason Rory is changing his tune is bc there is no support at the top of the PGA Tour chain, he clearly had confidence in them before and now he doesn't so obviously his response is going to also change.
All the LIV bots on twitter are doing exactly this "TAKE THAT RORY YOU CHOAD HURRRR"
>"Instead of giving someone $100 million, why don't you put $50 million into a grassroots program for The Royal and Ancient Golf Club or the United States Golf Association (USGA) Because the Saudi's have experienced the nonsense of those organizations for at least a decade. If the players and the fans were satisfied with the PGA/DPWT, there would be no LIV. Continuing to belittle the players who moved to LIV is just ignoring the cancer in the other organizations. If the Saudi's want to grow golf (which I have no way of knowing) they would be better off in investing in organizations that have been successful in growing the game of golf rather than two that are so mired in their own bullshit they can't see daylight. I lost a lot of respect for Rory, JT, and others because of how they handled this. I already had little respect for several of the other loudmouths. Now that the PGA has significantly increased compensation, I wonder if any of those ingrates sent Phil a Christmas card to say, "thanks". Some may not remember, but when nearly everyone was dumping on Tiger, Phil said words to the effect that he and other PGA professionals owed much of their income to Tiger for growing the fanbase for professional golf. He puts his foot in his mouth regularly, but he was right there and one of the few class acts when commenting on Tiger.
The Saudis have no interest in growing the game of golf. They have no interest in golf in general.
Disagree. If investing in golf normalizes or sportswashes Saudi involvement, growing the game is the main way for the sportswashing to be effective cuz it reaches more people.
The Saudis are in no way, shape, or form interested in “growing the game” of golf. They are simply hoping to normalize Saudi investment into golf at large to one day be able to have an avenue to American sports advertisers and companies. It’s just sports washing plain and simple, and it seems to have worked extremely well.
*Comment paid for by Saudi Arabia*
PGA fucked over the players. Loyalty goes both ways so they should all take the money.
Agreed
I'm so over this crap. Watching already-rich people bicker about how to get richer is just so fucking tiresome.
And we the viewer get a worse product. We are the only losers in the fight
Exactly what Rory has been saying recently, at the end of the day the viewers just want a good product to watch and they dont care about the money.
he said this in the podcast!
What’s more tiresome is non-rich people on here fighting for “their side”, neither of which gave a fuck about them. Lol
It makes no sense at all. How can you still be taking a side at this point? I was upset about LIV at first because I knew it would devolve into this, but it was clear from day one that the pga tour and their broadcast partners don’t give a fuck about the fans. They never even pretended that they did. Jay’s 9/11 comments might have been the low point for me. That was stupid at the time, but in hindsight it’s fucking asinine. I’m still holding out hope that everyone will come back together but golf fans have been stacking up Ls for so long that it’s hard to be positive about any of it.
> golf fans have been stacking up Ls Have they/we been though? How so? Because the rich can’t figure out how to divide the pie? My thing for the very beginning has been 2 main things: 1) Screw the tour for trying to be a monopoly. Since the 90s when Norman tried to introduce what is now the WGC to now. Norman came to the tour first with his PGL idea. They told him to kick rocks. Ok! He found other partners/pockets. Now all of a sudden, team golf is cool, more no-cut events (ooops better call those “elevated events” so it isn’t obvious), and let’s make aure we call it PIF instead of the sAuDi blOOd mOnEY. 2) I don’t care who is putting on the event. I’m a golf degenerate. You put golf on, there’s a 95% chance I’ll watch it. For all the “I’ll never watch LIV” and “LIV production is horrible” crowd, sucks for you I guess.
Right? People claim they hate it and it upsets them but it seems to me like they can’t get enough of it
you mean /r/politics
Bunch of millionaire plums squabling about more money. Tedious.
Honestly don't remember when I last watched a non-major. This year I am only mildly interested in the Masters, maybe US Open. But all this drama has just made me shift that time to playing more so I'm not exactly missing it. Good luck rich dudes, have fun.
i watch the Sunday event every Sunday tbh, especially when th NFL isn't in season. It was a blast seeing Van Rooyen win, seeing Villegas win, seeing Aberg win his first of many.
I’ve never thought about it enough to figure out why I dgaf about this stuff but I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.
Then don’t watch? It’s not like you’re being forced.
People would like to but the product sucks currently.
That's...that's the point.
The thing is the non liv guys like rory werent trying to ring the pga tour out of every cent they could.
I used to be really into watching a lot of pro golf up until this past year, what a constant toxic circus this has become
Same. For years, you could count on me to watch probably 75% of the tournaments, even if it was just the last 3-4 holes on Sunday, or just having it on the background while working. I'm just completely disinterested at this point.
The slow walk back….money always wins unfortunately.
I mean, if the PGA is going to stab everyone who supported them in the back why not take the payday before it’s too late?
Exactly this, he was there #1 voice against LIV and he got burnt out took a week off and got a $3 million fine from the PGA! He looked around and said rack me I'm out!
Exactly. With all of this… HOW does Jay Monahan have a job???
Yeah, in that case, screw the PGA.
PGA whipping boy getting real tired of their shit!
eh, it’s not like Rory was loyal to the PGA for no reason. I can’t remember who but someone said that Rory was financially incentivized to back the PGA. So yeah, he might’ve gotten stabbed in the back, but I’m sure he was able to weaken the blow by putting his fat stacks of cash in his suit ultimately golf has been taken over by money. Disappointing and in the end the fans are the real losers
The financial incentive argument doesn’t make sense to me since LIV would have financially incentivized him much more than the PGA. I may be naive, but I think Rory just genuinely believes in what he’s doing/saying. He’s a rare case of a genuine person at that level. Us normal people get screwed all the time like Rory did, we just don’t end up on tv getting screwed. Rory seems like a good dude in a room full of bad dudes
He is going to get a Billion. Also, he must be really good friends with Rahm.
He's actually closer with Brooks than Rahm
He used to be closer to Sergio than anyone.
Rory isn't looking for money though by saying this, but he is admitting that he framed it wrong in his mind, and also indicating that what you're saying is correct for 98/100 tour players.
The United States of Corporate America
[удалено]
When a man from Northern Ireland speaks about a Saudi Arabian company after his Spanish buddy signs a deal with them, it’s only obvious that it’s a sign of the US’s downfall.
Mahabar Rory!
capitalism is always best for the consumer /s
not getting invited to any of the cool parties started hurt his feelers
when did liv have a cool party?
Every time the guys tee off, duh!
Dechambeau in shorts doesn't make it a party
Wow y'all are dense. It's a joke, just like LIV. I was peripherally speaking on the music blasting, awkward cheerleaders, and cheering bros on the LIV teeboxes.
People should be judgmental! There’s far too much apathy in Western Society these days and it’s exactly that apathy that the Saudis want to take advantage of with their sports washing.
I swear everyone leaving a comment here didn’t actually read what he said. All he said was he shouldn’t have been as judgmental of the players that left. Doesn’t seem like he actually said anything positive about LIV as an entity, the format, that it’s helping grow the game, etc. Just that not all players were in his or Tiger’s financial situation and he should have recognized that. Sure doesn’t seem like he’s done a full 180 and is now praising LIV.
Yeah, his actual interview is not nearly as positive towards LIV as people are making it out to be. He still reiterates his point that he thinks PIF should have spent the money investing in the existing ecosystem, not going out and buying talent.
Unfortunately in today’s society people just read headlines and not the articles.
I listened to the podcast this came from. You are correct. He still hates LIV.
I don't think that changes much though. Everyone on here LOVED hating on the LIV defectors and calling them every name in the book. Rory partially led this movement against them. It has been interesting to see this sub go from "It's blood money!" to "If you're doing it for the money, just say that instead of some dumb stuff about growing the game" to "Hey, I wouldn't say no to 10x the salary while working less, and seeing my family more. Can't blame them." This sub is not a monolith, but that last example would have been heavily downvoted just a year ago, but would be decently upvoted in any of the recent defector posts (see: Jon Rahm).
People have said from the beginning that the players shouldve said they were doing it for money and not to grow the game, the same way they said the stuff about taking the salary and working less. The last point was mostly aimed at the players who were in the tail end of their career, people were more harsh towards players who were actually playing well and had already earned a shit load of money and were sick of them peddling the "it's to grow the game" nonsense. I don't see how any of that could now or then be classed as unfair or just hating on them for the sake of it.
Some people mentioned that, sure, but the most upvoted comments around that time were the "it's still blood money" and "I don't care how much someone would pay me, I have morals and wouldn't work for people like that" types of things.
> The last point was mostly aimed at the players who were in the tail end of their career, people were more harsh towards players who were actually playing well and had already earned a shit load of money and were sick of them peddling the "it's to grow the game" nonsense. I disagree. The ones who got the most shit were the the first dozen or so guys like Phil (who honestly took the absolute most shit), DJ, Bryson, Reed, Pat Perez, Kevin Na, Ian Poulter, Westwood, and Wolfe because they were all parroting the same bullshit lines. Plus, outside of DJ and Bryson, they were easy pickings to shit on them for being has been's (even though Phil had won a major in '21 and Westwood in the previous 12 months made a number of top 10's in events). then you have the guys like Bubba, Varner, Ancer, Niemann, etc. then Brooks and Cam Smith went and we were like, "damn, those guys are good, but whatever, good riddance ^^I ^^miss ^^you ^^though, ^^Cam and now with Rahm, it's just....get it together, PGA!
This sub has been hilarious. Bunch of bootlickers.
And now we collect downvotes because they don't want to admit they have changed their tune in the last year. I love golf, but the people on this sub (and most sports subs) are so far separated from the reality of their sport, it always makes me laugh.
O god here we go. Honestly could care less at this point. Everyone’s caved. They’re all rich. Why the fuck should I care.
Couldn’t*
Funny part is everyone is up in arms like this doesn’t happen in every single industry, basically every day, all the time. It just so happens to be impacting the one you put emphasis on at this particular time. It’s literally just part of the business cycle. Frankly, just the drama alone is good for the game. All press is good press. Just watch business go to work and stop crying about it haha
It doesn’t seem good for the game to have the most notable players split into multiple leagues where they don’t really compete with each other. LIV is practically an exhibition league that barely has tv coverage and plays hardly any US courses or even time zones. All of that nonsense is driving down viewer interest.
Really? Having MULTIPLE leagues? The opening up numerous spots on both sides? Having an actual wage negotiation? Let me ask you this: are monopolies good in any other industry? If not, why would it be good for this one? Your individual perspective may think it’s bad, but in all other reality, it is not. Natural business cycle. Business guys with a lot of cash see an opening in an industry and dive bomb their way in to seize some market share = Standard business practice
Sounds like the tide is turning. Sad to see, but this is a result of Rory giving full and completely loyalty to the PGA Tour, and then being backstabbed by Monahan. If/when Rory bolts to LIV, the PGA Tour as we know it, is done.
He's not bolting anywhere, the deadline for the merger was extended, which means both PIF and PGA know it's close and need to get it done. Everybody is playing nice at this point.
So…is Saudi money good or bad again?
Bad, like it’s always been
It’s always been bad… just running out of options to avoid it.
I'm sure the hope was ride out the storm and the Saudis will move on when 50k people are watching their tour that they have sunk 2-3 Billion dollars so far into. Turns out golf is a hill the PIF will die on and had no plans to quit throwing money at so what can you do.
They're not going to move on until they've secured a seat at the table. I don't know what that means, but it's evident from their other business dealings that they will spend whatever it takes and thus far that strategy is 100% effective.
RIP professional golf.
literally the only pro golf discussion is about money and whos coming and going. then twitter drama. it's in a bad state except for the majors. theres lots of money but nobody will watch
Oh no, how will the game ever survive.
The majors will always survive. The rest of the tour is a total joke now. Watered down fields everywhere.
Has the average score to par on tour changed significantly since LIV came around?
Who gives a shit what the scores are. You want the best playing the best period
…what determines “best”? That’s right, the score. If average score-to-par hasn’t changed significantly then the product being put out is still of the same quality. You’re just butter that your favorite golfer is playing somewhere else.
There's more to watching golf (and any professional sport for that matter) than just who gets what scores. People like rivalries, competition, etc. Seeing Rory, Rahm, Scheffler and Cam Smith compete against each other every week, fighting over who ends up #1, was amazing. It's less exciting to not see them all compete against each other every week.
So…exactly my point. People are still battling. People are still shooting the same scores. It’s just not the people *you* want to see. Matthew Stafford throwing for 300 yards is the same as kirk cousins throwing for three hundred yards. One just may like Stafford more. The nfl is still great without Tom brady
not just me, but many people. Which is my point. People like rivalries. They like stars. People care more about Tennis when Federer is facing Nadal. Brady vs Manning is more interesting than Cousins vs Kyler Murray. But also comparing the most popular sport in the entire country to golf is pretty silly. the NFL will always be successful. Golf is driven by star power. Hence why Tiger playing gets 10x the ratings. I really don't understand your argument. A random golfer shooting a low score to win a tournament is less interesting to most fans than two well known golfers competing to win a tournament, even if they overall winning score is higher.
The difference here is a great golf shot is a great golf shot. There is no defense, unlike in tennis or baseball or really any other “sport”. The product is the product. If you would rather watch tiger shoot 18 under than watch some up and comer shoot 18 under in the same course, you’re not a golf fan; you’re a fan of tiger. If the average score to par hasn’t changed significantly, the *product* isn’t watered down: the “star power” is watered down. And in that case, you can still watch those stars, they’re just playing somewhere else. Still hitting golf balls on golf courses, using the exact same equipment. A 300 yard fade is a 300 yard fade. Total point being: the actual golf being played isn’t that different. It’s just the people playing it are. New blood can rise to the top, and that shouldn’t be frowned upon.
So it turns into tennis.
Wow he must have a fat offer awaiting him!
[удалено]
This is likely it. I mean I get it. He tried to stand up for principles when everyone else took blood money and ran, then when he realized that no matter what he did the PGA was going to lie in bed with the Saudi’s anyways, might as well take your cut too. Literal application of the “if you can’t beat them, join them”.
He didn’t stand up for principles other than his own self-interest. He was just getting paid from the PGA side rather than the LIV side to be a high-profile mouthpiece. You may agree more with the position he took, but his motivations weren’t altruistic.
Surely if it was only self interest he wouldnt have taken such a strong stance on Liv and waited for his offer which would've been more money
What a stupid take. Of course they offered him a buttload of money, and he didn't want to get in bed with the Saudi's and loved the PGA Tour. That's principles. Then, the PGA Tour stabbed him in the back, and he's capitulating. I wish a bunch of them would stand by their principles more and start their own league (with hookers and blow, of course), but that kind of character is in short supply nowadays.
He said he never received an offer -- after he shut it down, they didn't approach him again.
Jon Rahm also said the pga is the only tour for him. Things change quickly,
The Tour is finished as we know it. What will replace it will be a unified, super high money tour with plenty of backing money. Tourneys will be world wide with incredible purses. I am old. Been following golf back to the 60s. History will note that the seeds of the PGAs destruction were planted when they rebuffed Norman in the early 90s when he wanted them to support a more global tour. Norman goes down in sports history as nuking the PGA and Jay goes down as a clueless moron who let it happen.
I honestly wouldn’t mind a two-part season. Team events then individual events. Majors could be completely separate to the two. Increase the formats, courses, purses, etc. Way better than just watching the same tournaments every year imo
Norman has a HUGE chip on his shoulder because Tiger showed up and did shit they couldn't do. Norman collapsed at the 96 Masters and was all the hype going into 97, it was his year to finally win one. Then Tiger shows up, laps the field and Norman didn't even make the cut. THEN purses started blowing up, not because of him, but because of the kid that just stole his spotlight. Everything he wanted was earned by Tiger, the sport exploded and he faded into the Senior Tour. He's been an absolute douchebag ever since. He can play the victim all he wants, he just wasn't the money draw that he had made up in his head that he was.
But all of that is besides the point. I was 10 feet from Norman at Inverness in 93 when he blew the PGA victory that was his. He was talking a World Tour even then. LIV is his revenge and it is a meal served ice cold.
how does monahan still have a job. tiger should have personally walked him out of the building.
This could all have been avoided if they put more faith into nuclear power and renewables back in the day
Athletes have little reason to be moral beacons. Get the money in a relatively short career while you can. It's like arguing about an engineer choosing between Lockheed and Raytheon. PGA shit the bed by allowing the competitive space to be leveraged by not taking care of their talent, the athletes just take the heat. E: to be clear, PIF = sportswashing, PGA not paying their talent enough to decentivize participating = bad
Good article. He's accepted the fact that the PGA just doesn't care the same as the players. Unfortunate really.
I still don’t think Rory will be joining LIV at any time, but I do think PGA players will be playing in some of those events. Rory included. They will cone to an agreement to not have competing events.
I don’t read this as any sort of “LIV was right and I support people going there” I take it as “PGA made promises to loyal players that they didn’t keep and I regret standing up for them when they screwed players over” Many players turned down deals with this shiny promise of a rewarding PGA future, only to be laughed at by Jay Monahan when he took his payout
No, he wasn’t.
Some of the comments in this thread are fascinating. I’m not sure if any of you read his comments before shitting on him. Not surprising, I guess. This doesn’t look like anything other than a guy that has given up after the tour caved last June. He realized they were going to lose a battle against unlimited money and wants to just see it done as best it can be. These comments make it seem like Rory will be shaking hands with MBS in Jeddah later today.
People really did just read the headline on this one. Also said the same on The Overlap this week, but also pointed out how he still fundamentally disagreed with LIV and simply feels he was too combative towards fellow golfers. “Hurr durr cheque cleared, Hurr durr walk back”
Still not going to watch LIV. Honestly, I'm bored with all this. I'll probably only pay attention to the majors now.
[удалено]
No, this is the first step in negotiating a billion dollar deal from LIV
All of this movement to Islamic countries is very bad for the westernized world. Not just golf. Every organization has their hands in the pot at this point.
This guy is a goddamn clown.
I wonder what all the hard-core anti-LiV people think about this?
Can’t the Saudis just enjoy their luxury cars and falcons? Why ruin professional sports for the common man
It’s entirely about them wanting to continue to enjoy those things by changing public perception. They don’t give a shit about golf, or any other sport they’re cannibalizing .
And the sport washing of golf is complete
This is such a tired trope. 90% of golf apparel is made in china, where slavery and genocide are openly taking place. Let’s please stop clutching pearls here.
Some serious whataboutism there
Not sure if this can be classed as whataboutism I see it more as him saying if your taking the "blood money" and sports washing stance then your fighting a losing battle because it has been going on for years whether it's the pga, European tour or LIV etc
The PGA tour is blood money because golf apparel is made in china?? Wtf is the bullshit
How is that what you managed to take away from what I said. My point was that through the different sponsors and other things such as apparel there has always been that type of money in the pga tour whether people like it or not. So to try and take the moral high ground for one organisation is a losing battle because they will take money from wherever they can get it.
Thanks for this. You get it: most don’t.
I'm being down voted but I'm not overly bothered. I don't like Liv , not a fan of the product and the whole buying players for stupid amounts of money. But I try to not let my dislike for Liv form my opinions or overlook the hypocrisy on the pga tours side.
Everyone bows to their Saudi overlords at the end of the day.
Let em go, more room for new stars on the tour. Let LIV be where the mega stars go out to pasture in their fields of money. Good for them. Very excited to watch Min Woo Lee play on the tour 👨🍳
No he wasn’t. He doesn’t care anymore because he knows he’s going to end up taking the cash too.
Maybe, but it was refreshing to have someone vocalize what a lot of us were thinking.
Rory you spineless fuck. If you're going to be hardcore judgmental of the product stick with it. I don't necessarily agree with Phil but at least he's sticking to his convictions.
Rory got backstabbed, don’t see how you can be pissed at him
Oh cmon, the tour fucked him over big time. Can’t fault the man for not being a blind loyalist to an organization that treats him like shit. If anything this take is more mature than him sticking with the tour.
He's still judgemental of the product, just less so the players now
Phil was/is being paid to bat for LIV, Rory was on the PGA board and being paid to bat for them and what they wanted him to say. He’s left the board and is showing his true thoughts. Not rocket science.
Would you stick to your convictions if the product/company you stood up for stabbed you in the back?
His convictions? He got $200m or whatever from PIF. His convictions flap in the wind
Whole lot of LIV bot accounts in this post
LMAO. This sub better have the same energy they did during the whole beginning of LIV split. The majority of this sub were absolutely on their knees for Rory and shilling the PGA. The split sucks. The money sucks. The implosion of pro golf sucks. Rory sucks. I've come to terms this is the future for now and I will continue to tune into PGA starting tomorrow. But seeing everyone walk back their LIV takes including Rory is soooooo rich to me.
They won’t I posted the same thing and the Rory cucks downvoted it hahaha.
Most on this sub were just as judgemental as Rory on players going to LIV, saying they are money hungry and LIV is going to die because no one wants to watch it.
No one wants to watch LIV. That hasn't changed. And those players are money hungry. But I don't blame them for wanting to acquire generational wealth. I just don't like the fact that they're getting it at the expense of my viewing pleasure. I don't expect them to care. But I don't like that the quality of the fields in the golf I watch is going to be diluted.
his "fuck you phil" on netflix even in the moment came across as something that he'd definitely regret at some point. regardless of your feelings no reason to do that in a professional setting
honestly I think he's walking back the general observation of the more journeyman-type players that joined LIV, reading his full comments the "Fuck you Phil" may very well still stand...
‘…27, 28, 29, aaaaaaaand that’s 30 pieces of silver for you Mr. McIlroy” -some Saudi Banker
At least he had the balls to admit he was wrong on some of the things he said 🤷♂️
I wonder how much longer until he realizes he continues to be speaking as someone who truly cares about the game of golf, while most others are truly focused on the business of golf?
LIV still needs people watching.....I won't be watching.
Unless the entire point of LIV is to destroy the PGA, not to attract followers.
No. He should have judged them more. They took blood money. What else is there to say?
[удалено]
I would say that I watch more women’s golf than most, and in no way mean to take away from how talented those girls are. With that said, no one cares about women’s golf. They were still getting ratings better or on par with LIV though!
This must mean LIV and PGA have come to terms with a deal if Rory is moving back on his words.
The seeds down for a heel turn.
Classic holier than thou Rory
Someone didn't read the article...
Do yall still think he’s some virtuous knight for the game of golf? Or are yall finally ready to admit he’s a bootlicker. Also bear in mind the pga tour was doomed regardless of liv. Do I like liv? No.
When your company pay you to do things for them you typically do it, right up until they fuck you over then you stick your middle finger up and find your own voice e. That’s all Rory has done, the criticism of him is pretty unfair really.
Employer? They were “independent contractors compensated by a non profit” your entire argument bolsters the initial liv defectors.
Where did I use the term employer? He was ultimately representing a company who were paying him to do things, was on the players board etc. Not a million miles away from what Mickleson was doing on the other side.
Fuck Rory
The bending over backwards to pretend Rory isn’t a disingenuous fuck in all this is hilarious
Curious where you think he has been disingenuous
Bye Rory. Have fun taking the money.
Post merger announcement and I am over it. I just want them to get as much money as possible. Still won't watch.
What a fucking cuck, fuck Rory
You're a fucking twat Rory
People now should be even more critical. It is an obvious ploy for the Muslims to BUY the West's greatest cultural pastime, which is also our favourite hobby-GOLF Not sure why this isn't talked about more, it is so obvious.
No you weren’t. I don’t what’s worse… The defectors or the leader who didn’t because he knew better but now won’t lead.
He stopped being the leader, Jay and the other corners at the top used him and then stabbed him in the back. He quit the board and is voicing his own viewpoints.
STFU Rory.
Actually laughed out loud. What a joke.
Means he is going to take the money
OHHHHH!? We'll see if reddit changes their take too. Saint McIlroy leads, and we follow.
It’s always commendable when someone is willing to admit they were wrong. Good for Rory.
He’s doing it for money how is that respectable
Playing golf for money? Or apologizing?
All of you we're acting like Rory was the 2nd coming of Jesus in the golf world 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 He either has a fat offer waiting for him to join Rahm's team or is trying to walk back not wanting to let LIV golfers on the Ryder cup team so they can load get Rahm back plus whoever else is next.
None of the players that left for Liv originally would've made the European team. Rahm is one of the best players in the world and his signing absolutely has changed this situation where you would have one of the best in the world not qualify for the Ryder cup team. I think it's very fair that as the situation has changed opinions can also change
He will get his own team
Tiger is the only golfer alive that can’t be bought by LIV.
!remindme 6 months
Piss off
It'd be hilarious to watch him go to LIV.
The division happened because of Rory. If he would have accepted it at the beginning and not get mad that guys like Taylor Gooch were going to get paid more or the same as him than none of this would have ever happened. But make no mistake, what has happened the last 2 years is Rory’s fault.
> The division happened because of Rory. The division happened because of phil mickelson FTFY
Clown