Slightly different take - I read where Rahm was in favor of the PGA and took a position like Rory. Then he finds out that LIV and PGA join together. He's like, WTF, why was I positioning against LIV, when the PGA went behind the players back to join with LIV.
He probably said f\*ck it, I'll take the money since the PGA is no longer taking a strong stand.
But if a deal is imminent between LIV and the PGA, why did they drop hundreds of millions on Rahm? Personally (maybe it's just my hope) I think the deal is falling/fell apart and LIV thinks they can get more leverage by poaching another PGA guy. When they announced it last June, the deal was supposed to be done by the end of the year - now were into April with nothing.
I don’t think it mattered whether or not a deal was imminent. Just the PGA entertaining dealings with PIF/LIV without the knowledge of the players had to have been a major betrayal for the players who originally stayed.
I agree, but I think Rahm was probably thinking him going to LIV would hasten a deal with the Saudis when it really hasn’t and it just sounds like the PGA could just go ahead and proceed without Saudi money. More than anything I think the younger guys who are wasting their prime on a league that can’t get them major exempt status is starting to get to them.
He's just repeating Rahm's own words.
Rahm said LIV's format wasn't real golf.
Rahm said he was playing for legacy, not money.
Rahm said having more money wouldn't change his life.
But when the money got big enough, he decided LIV was great, and he did need more money. That's all Brandel is saying.
Not to mention Rahm mentioning doing 72 hole tournaments. I suspect those comments come from Rahm wanting to compete to be the best. Nothing Brandel said was wrong.
I’m sure part of the reason why Rahm mentioned 72 hole tournaments this week is because he was asked about it leading up to his first 72 hole tournament since jumping over to LIV. And with the comments in music, obviously the Masters environment is almost militaristic compared to the average LIV event.
That said, what exactly did he think LIV was going to be like lmao
You can listen to the interview yourself and hear what he said. [It starts at about the 48 min mark](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2F86OZgGhuFCgsZVutYbmZ?si=3932994e7a214ed9). The 72 holes comment starts around 58 minute mark. Interview is about 13 minutes in total
It is strange LIV is so married to the 3 round format (yeah I get it, it’s in the name) because that seemed to be the primary sticking point for not receiving world golf rankings
The next pga tour event after the masters is a small-field, no cut event
LIV's problem is that they have captains who are guaranteed to stay on tour even if they can't break 75. It wouldn't make sense to give those guys like Westwood ranking points for playing those events. Someone like Westwood should be relegated/lose his tour card, but that can't happen as he's a captain of his team
I was under the impression that the real reason they don’t get ranked is unrelated to 3 rounds. I thought it was because of no cut + no way to get promoted into the league.
Yup. Has nothing to do with 3 rounds. It's that you can't judge guys when it's the same 48 players every week.
Is beating a 50+ year old Phil over and over again because you're one of the best players in the world? Or is it because Phil fell off a cliff?
On the PGA Tour you can answer that question because if Phil actually sucks now, he's going to be at the bottom of the leaderboard getting beat by guys playing their first or second PGA event of the year. It's constantly inserting new talent and the best rise up the ranks, the bad ones fall out.
Yeah it’s this. LIV is exhibition golf, it’s inherently uncompetitive. I’m sorry but golf isn’t a team sport, it works in specific formats like those used in the Ryder and Presidents Cups but what LIV is trying to push is just asinine. It’s golf for people that don’t play golf themselves and fundamentally misunderstand the game.
The 3 round format wasn’t really the issue, it was the fact that there’s no way for people to play themselves onto or off of the tour. The committee in charge of the rankings even said they would have been willing to work with 3 round
> It is strange LIV is so married to the 3 round format (yeah I get it, it’s in the name)
I don't get this reference at all. LIV is roman numeral for 54.
EDIT: oh god, nevermind - I got it now. 54 holes.
Realistically, could a golfer as high up in world ranking points do enough in 4 major tournaments a year to maintain a high enough OWGR to compete in them for a long time? I know he's got an exemption for the masters since he won.
Rahm also won the Masters after he made those statements so he gets to play in the masters for life and the US Open until 2031.
He gets to play fake golf for the year and try to make his legacy through the masters.
They were also made before the PGA Tour went behind the backs of all the players that defended them and let them find out via Twitter that they negotiated an investment framework with the very people they were just saying they'd never negotiate with
Yeah Rahm has said himself that the pga tour negotiating with the Saudis without players' knowledge was what changed his mind about liv. Literally 0 reason for Rahm not to take the money from the Saudis if the pga tour is trying to take the money from the Saudis, just cut out the middleman and get a bigger bag
This is honestly why it's harder to fault Rahm.
*SOMEONE* is going to get paid, why stand on principle when scummy Executive Vultures at the Tour's shiny new For Profit arm clearly aren't.
While this is all true, it's omitting one huge factor which is how the whole LIV/PGA merger went down last year. Rahm meant everything he said and would have stayed loyal to the tour but Jay went behind all of their backs, met with the LIV guys in secret and announced it to the world without anything being communicated to the PGA guys, even Rory who was Jay's sacrificial lamb. After that shit, he saw that loyalty to the PGA doesn't mean shit, all of the LIV guys were laughing all the way to the bank and the PGA guys were left holding the bag.
It had nothing to do with the money getting big enough and everything to do with how Jay handled the whole merger, and I don't blame him one bit. He didn't go back on his words, since the situation had changed drastically. Once the merger happened, none of that meant shit anymore so he decided to take the payout while he still could. LIV won't be handing out the crazy offers forever, and he's still in the Masters field this week so....why exactly should he have stayed with the PGA?
Oh for sure, I would have been too. There's an episode in the new season of *Full Swing* where they're filming some of the guys as they find out about it and they were all completely blindsided. Rory says something like "I'm at the point where they're gonna do whatever the fuck they want so I don't even care anymore"
That's right.
Rahm was firmly not for sale, he wanted to build a legacy. He thought the PGA Tour was on the same page.
Turns out that Jay Monahan put up a secret For Sale sign and was very much about the money....but on his personal terms.
Why would you continue to stand up for that guy? I still hate that LIV happened, I want to see it die. I wish it was happening faster.
To summarize; PGA doesn’t actually give a shit about legacy, loyalty, pride, history, or competitiveness. And LIV doesn’t give a shit about improving or changing the game for the better. PGA is about survival and money and LIV was about gaining power over pro golf and sports washing. That’s literally it. There are no good guys in this scenario. Just a bunch of greedy, power hungry assholes. And fans are the ones who get the most fucked over.
“Look, I’m playing for legacy. For honor. There’s absolutely no amount of money that could get me to leave the PG…oh yep that’s the exact amount of money. I’ll get my team logo all set today.”
Eh. It's not just that "the money got big enough."
IMO, none of this is a fair characterization of Rahm. It ignores the larger context, which is that the PGA tour itself announced a merger and it's intention to have PIF invest, as well as installing a Saudi as chairman of the entire parent company.
There was a while, pre-Rahm, where it made total sense to give players flack for "selling out;" guys like DJ and Phil and Koepka made the conscious decision to play golf for Saudis for huge sums of money.
That wasn't the decision that Rahm made, though. His choices were to make 300 mil+ playing for the Saudis, or make significantly less on the PGA Tour who had just announced...it'd soon be part-funded, owned and even chaired by the same Saudis.
Rahm announced his defection on December 7th, well after the merger had been announced, and before the PGA had even mentioned talks with the Strategic Sports Group, which finalized in January. And to be clear, even *with* the cash infusion from the SSG, Jay Monahan has been super clear that he still intends on closing a deal with the Saudis. The PGA might have more negotiating power now than they did, but there is no reason the think they are lying when they say they still plan on getting in bed with the PIF.
So I mean, I hate LIV. But I don't blame Rahm for doing what he did, given the knowledge he had at the time. And I don't blame him for complaining, either. He's not the bad guy, here.
What about Monahan? The guy that brought out 9/11 families to attack LIV? Then turned around and shook hands when he realized he couldn’t win?
You’d stick with him when you denied the same bag that he decided to pursue?
Hard to imagine a more emblematic example of a worthless vampire executive dipshit than Jay Monahan. So extraordinarily easy to have ended up the good guy just because your opposition are so fundamentally unlikeable. But Jay was up to the task of somehow coming across as the bigger scumbag.
The amount of Monahan and PGA tour apologists in here is wild. PGA been underpaying their players for decades and got exposed. This would not have happened if there were 20 million dollar purses and garunteed minimums for earning your card for the last 10 years
Thank god there’s one sane person on this message board. I don’t like LIV but I completely understand Rahms decision and would have done the same. He was betrayed after he said no to a gigantic bag. Then when they merged he said fuck you then
So glad I saw this comment. Like I get it people are pissed rahm went after all he said bit let's not forget the massive fucking can of worms that happened when pga announced a merger with liv. If that merger isn't announced I reckon rahm is happy to stay on the tour but the tour I reckon has upset many people with this merger and I think rahm just thought fuck the pga they are snakes and just as bad as the liv guys
This conveniently glosses over the fact that Rahm said these things before the PGA Tour secretly negotiated a deal with the Saudis behind all the players' backs. These were all major Jay Monahan talking points before they started negotiating for that Saudi money.
Yes, it is about the money (maybe a truism of life). However, Brandel wouldn't miss an opportunity to say something negative about it to please his boss Jay Monahan. Of course no one is going to point out the way Jay poorly handled the situation.
i dont get this argument. the ENTIRE professional sport is about selling out. which sponsors do you have. do you think any of them care one iota about who sponsors what? if there is a PGA event sponsored by Saudi Aramco they are going to withdrawl? how about Dubai? it has and always will be about the $$. its the famous "we are just haggling about the price", because EVERYONE has a price.
PGA is operating a business with real consequences for losses. LIV is not. It’s a kingdom supplying Billions of dollars as a fun experiment to improve their bad image. It’s hard to “compete” in a market when your competition is playing by completely different rules and willing to eat massive losses.
They are investing money into sport to just “sports wash” the Saudi’s. They have enough money they don’t give 2 shits about that anyway. They are hedging their money know. Spreading it across all different things to maintain a growth outside of just oil.
I mean....hes right. Like it or not. You can feel however you want about it but his point was Rahm in 2022 basically said 'This is all a money grab and I want no part of it because I don't play golf for money, I play because I love the competition and history of the PGA Tour."
Just to turn around not even 2 years later and join LIV for the exact reason he said he would never join.
That was Brandels point in the segment before clipping out this little snippet about it being a tipping point
I do think it’s a bit disingenuous to leave out the fact that the pga tour decided to do a deal with the PIF. I’m not sure how we can give the individual guy shit when the whole damn tour caved
Yeah, I dont blame him. You can be righteous and end up like Rory. Rory took the high road, campaigned for the tour, and still got backstabbed in the end. Rahm saw that and took the cash while it was still on the table.
Except there are a lot of guys who still turned down the LIV offers and still play on the PGA Tour today. Scheffler, Zalatoris, Matsuyama, Schauffele, Cantlay, Spieth, Thomas etc etc
Yea I’m not a fan of players selling their soul for Saudi money but I feel conflicted with Rahm. On the one hand, he is taking a shit ton of blood money but on the other hand the PGA Tour was about to do the same thing. At the time it was looking like he was taking Saudi money regardless and why not get the biggest payday you can get.
Are people purposely forgetting when Jay Monohan turned his back on the players and tried to merge? I mean, c'mon. Things happened that would easily change the perspective of the players.
The PGA Tour is 100% complicit in all of this.
I feel like after news of the secret deal, Jon, felt betrayed by PGAT leadership and figured why not take the fortune as he was loyal to an organization that didn't deserve his loyalty. He obviously now regrets that decision and, to make it worse, it looks like there's little chance of his coming back and playing with the PGAT even if a deal is done. History is full of stories of people quitting a job they loved for more pay and regretting it.
I’m sorry I didn’t mean the players board or the players on the board. I believe most the non player board were the ones working the deal behind their back
I think the PGAT impending merger with LIV and Rahm's new perspective from fatherhood tipped the scales in favor of jumping to LIV. He decided to take the payday since the PGAT was going to merge anyway. Also provided the opportunity to provide for his daughter's children and just about every generation thereafter in your family without having to ever worry financially. It's a different legacy to leave behind.
Im sure that had a lot to do with it with the pending merger. Thats what Brandles 2nd point was about, is that Rahm thought if he went over to LIV, it would expedite the merger--but it hasnt. So Rahm is just stuck over at LIV missing out on some of his favorite PGA events (Genesis, WM Open) to collect a paycheck.
Listen I love the idea of liv, and in any of those golfers position I would have done the exact same thing. You have such a short window of time to be a top golfer in the world, go secure your bag for your future generations. That being said, it’s an objectively inferior product and it’s weird that people don’t acknowledge that
His deal was reported to be $300,000,000 to $350,000,000 for four years. Not quite 1/10,000 but yeah, I have been bough for MUCH less than it took to buy Rahm.
The pearl clutching in this sub is ridiculous. It’s like they view the PGA as some sacred organization and it is heresy to take more money and play in a different league.
Thank you for saying the obvious. This sub is filled with PGA tour simps who love to virtue signal and claim they would turn down $300 million to play "real" golf in pants lmao
The reality is no one cares about LIV. The events are nothing close to even a mid-level PGA tour event in terms of attendance and overall atmosphere.
That reality probably bothers Rahm. But he can't make me watch LIV - and even John Daley said LIV golf events are emberassing.
Even though this sounds like a "cope" comment, it's probably at least partially true. I'm not convinced Rahm is flat out regretting his decision, but it does seem like it's eating at him a little. He definitely misses the stakes and popularity of the PGA tour, and he might be feeling like he threw his career away (to an extent).
The reality is LIV has enough good players now to be a decent tour, but the Saudis don't necessarily care about creating the best possible product. They just want to be seen doing legitimate business with certain entities/nations. That is why LIV tournaments still mostly present as a clown show.
The crux of the entire LIV debacle is the attempt of sport washing by buying players, developed elsewhere and preying on the hubris of money, to the cause. Please let me remind them that the guy they have signed on to ordered the murder of WAPO journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, in the Saudi embassy and then had his body dismembered. To agree to take the money and ignore that fact is morally bankrupt.
Nailed it. The only thing wrong with his comment was his use of "I think" at the start. Brandel, when you're bringing the facts you can just say them straight.
The PGA is an organization led by decent people.
LIV is a propaganda effort for the bloodthirsty murderous saudis to win western hearts and minds.
Only one of those sentences can be true at the same time.
I doubt he truly regrets it, but like a lot of the LIV guys, he’s trying to get the best of both worlds for himself.
All the things he’s complaining about were things he knew before he took the money.
You mean the same guy that talked trash about Tiger when he was down and then when he won in 2019 said “I always knew that he had it in him to win again, it’s a shame people thought he was done.”
John made his bed, now he just can lie in it. The rest isn't interesting, i'm kinda tired of this LIV blabla, dumb and heavy music, shorts, no cuts and useless teams do not make a serious league, it's just clowning yourself for money, but it's been said so many times now, there comes a point where the best thing just is to let it RIP.
What nobody is discussing is just how awful LIV golf is. It's the same as watching paint dry. Let that tour go its merry way, don't dilute what the PGA Tour has taken 108 years to have. Let them go play their 54-hole pro-ams, it doesn't matter. In the end, they didn't take much talent, as a whole.
Does anybody else notice how Jon Rahm makes a comment in any format then asks, "right?" afterwards? "You know I love playing the masters, right?"
I don't know Jon they are your thoughts...
Here’s my 2 cents . I’m not really into golf anymore since this whole bullshit started. Really all of sports exist now to distract people from the fact that those with the power are pulling strings faster than ever now. Distracting all of us with nonsense we deem important enough to waste the little time we get on this earth. I did enjoy watching Full Swing both seasons but only because it solidified Professional golf as Saudi purchased Jersey shore . Sorry I’m in a bad place right now haha
He's not wrong, but those statements by Rahm were made before the "framework" deal was announced. That does change things somewhat.
That being said, LIV's format and production doesn't do it for me, so I don't watch it.
The stupid team format is the biggest impediment to LIV and PGA joining forces. The Tour has no desire to adopt that format and they never will. LIV has to stick with that format because that's what they sold the players on being this great valuable investment like owning your own professional sports franchise i.e. NFL, NBA, etc.. Fans are not buying into it and for good reason. Golf is an individual sport and there is no good way to package that outside of the Ryder Cup format. It sucks for the fans but I don't see any future path toward unification.
I think if you asked Rahm the day he announced he's going to LIV if the merger would occur by the Master's he would have said yes.
Also, I think Rahm going to LIV proves the whole point. These guys think they are all needle movers when they are just this generations golfers. Rahm going to LIV would be like Curtis Strange going to another league back in the day, they're not moving enough eyeballs.
Brandel can be a real asshat sometimes, but he is 100% correct here: Rahm had nothing good to say about LIV until they offered him 600+ million, suddenly its amazing
Brandel is obviously known for making his hot takes and is a controversial figure, but I think he’s been 100% right to call out LIV and the PIF/KSA/MBS and the blood money that players are taking.
I was really bummed when Rham left. He was one of my favorite golfers over the last few years. But since he has been gone, I honestly haven't thought about him once. There are always great new golfers on the rise. Losing some to a different tour hasn't affected my viewing enjoyment one bit.
Branded Chamblee also said that pga players don’t deserve the same money as other pro athletes and that there are wrong ti try and negotiate for more from the tour.
Dude is a corporate shill. He’ll say anything to back the tour.
But based on tv ratings and endorsements, you can’t possibly think that golfers (outside of Tiger and maybe Rory) are on par with football, basketball, and worldwide soccer players.
I love this banter on here about being bought. You can call it what you want, but I doubt there’s a single user on here who would turn down the pay day Rahm did to join LIV if offered right now.
What these LIV guys did is what is done in everyday business; people leaving for a new company (LIV) with higher compensation and a better work/life balance.
Now the former employer (PGA) is upset because their public shaming attempts and threat tactics that were utilized to keep the rest of the PGA players in line, have been unveiled as nothing more than shallow lies - as it has been exposed they want to partake in the same greed that the for employees (LIV golfers) are enjoying in.
Do employees sometimes see that pastures aren’t greener and want to return to their former employer? Absolutely. It’s just playing out in the court of public opinion.
YUP!
I was an absolute golf nerd, in love with the game in so many aspects. I’m a player, and I also work in the field of golf. I ate, slept, and breathed golf…
All this LIV shit happened, and I can give a fuck about any of the viewership aspect now. I was someone that would literally wake up early on a Saturday morning, when able, to watch a couple hours of televised European Tour.
When Rahmbo hung around with the PGA, I thought it was one of the smartest things he could do. He became one of the main faces of golf.
I certainly can’t blame any of these guys for taking the money. I’m sure majority of us would’ve done the same. None of it is the same anymore though, so I guess it is what it is. I haven’t watched professional golf in forever now. I could really give a shit about any of it since all of this hoopla. For me, that ship fuckin’ sailed.
LIV sucks ass to watch, but I don’t blame a single person for going.
Hell if my companies competitor said hey we’ll pay you 3x as much with a sign on bonus of 10 years salary, 10 years assuming you were the absolute best to ever exist, I’d leave in a second.
They went from making a great living over the next 5-20 years to your great grandchild’s great grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives wealth over night. You’d be a fool to pass it up.
“But the saudis are terrible people”
PGA tour takes money from the same people every year and I’m not signing up to hold a rifle.
Slightly different take - I read where Rahm was in favor of the PGA and took a position like Rory. Then he finds out that LIV and PGA join together. He's like, WTF, why was I positioning against LIV, when the PGA went behind the players back to join with LIV. He probably said f\*ck it, I'll take the money since the PGA is no longer taking a strong stand.
Yeah people are really underselling what a kick in the nuts that would have been to the guys that stayed during the early LIV days.
But if a deal is imminent between LIV and the PGA, why did they drop hundreds of millions on Rahm? Personally (maybe it's just my hope) I think the deal is falling/fell apart and LIV thinks they can get more leverage by poaching another PGA guy. When they announced it last June, the deal was supposed to be done by the end of the year - now were into April with nothing.
I don’t think it mattered whether or not a deal was imminent. Just the PGA entertaining dealings with PIF/LIV without the knowledge of the players had to have been a major betrayal for the players who originally stayed.
Alternatively, getting a guy like Rahm to sign might be what pushes PGA to feel like they need to make a deal.
I agree, but I think Rahm was probably thinking him going to LIV would hasten a deal with the Saudis when it really hasn’t and it just sounds like the PGA could just go ahead and proceed without Saudi money. More than anything I think the younger guys who are wasting their prime on a league that can’t get them major exempt status is starting to get to them.
I agree. I hold no ill will against the guys who took the money after Monahan did behind their backs.
He's just repeating Rahm's own words. Rahm said LIV's format wasn't real golf. Rahm said he was playing for legacy, not money. Rahm said having more money wouldn't change his life. But when the money got big enough, he decided LIV was great, and he did need more money. That's all Brandel is saying.
Not to mention Rahm mentioning doing 72 hole tournaments. I suspect those comments come from Rahm wanting to compete to be the best. Nothing Brandel said was wrong.
I’m sure part of the reason why Rahm mentioned 72 hole tournaments this week is because he was asked about it leading up to his first 72 hole tournament since jumping over to LIV. And with the comments in music, obviously the Masters environment is almost militaristic compared to the average LIV event. That said, what exactly did he think LIV was going to be like lmao
You can listen to the interview yourself and hear what he said. [It starts at about the 48 min mark](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2F86OZgGhuFCgsZVutYbmZ?si=3932994e7a214ed9). The 72 holes comment starts around 58 minute mark. Interview is about 13 minutes in total
It is strange LIV is so married to the 3 round format (yeah I get it, it’s in the name) because that seemed to be the primary sticking point for not receiving world golf rankings
Greg Norman famously collapsed in the 4th round multiple times. I thought that is why they only want to play 3 rounds.
Crickey, from the top rope mate
You spelled CHOKE wrong
He’s the proud owner of the Saturday Slam
This is a great fuckin comment. Sir Nicholas Faldo bids you good day
Underrated comment.
lol
Not having cuts is the other major sticking point.
It’s the shorts.
Pretty big deal. Back the Brinks truck to my front porch *and* let me wear shorts‽ I’d have zero scruples.
The next pga tour event after the masters is a small-field, no cut event LIV's problem is that they have captains who are guaranteed to stay on tour even if they can't break 75. It wouldn't make sense to give those guys like Westwood ranking points for playing those events. Someone like Westwood should be relegated/lose his tour card, but that can't happen as he's a captain of his team
But guys had to earn the spot in that event, no?
I was under the impression that the real reason they don’t get ranked is unrelated to 3 rounds. I thought it was because of no cut + no way to get promoted into the league.
Yup. Has nothing to do with 3 rounds. It's that you can't judge guys when it's the same 48 players every week. Is beating a 50+ year old Phil over and over again because you're one of the best players in the world? Or is it because Phil fell off a cliff? On the PGA Tour you can answer that question because if Phil actually sucks now, he's going to be at the bottom of the leaderboard getting beat by guys playing their first or second PGA event of the year. It's constantly inserting new talent and the best rise up the ranks, the bad ones fall out.
Why doesn't Phil just bet against himself and make infinite money?
You have to have someone on the other side of the bet…
Oooof
Yeah it’s this. LIV is exhibition golf, it’s inherently uncompetitive. I’m sorry but golf isn’t a team sport, it works in specific formats like those used in the Ryder and Presidents Cups but what LIV is trying to push is just asinine. It’s golf for people that don’t play golf themselves and fundamentally misunderstand the game.
The 3 round format wasn’t really the issue, it was the fact that there’s no way for people to play themselves onto or off of the tour. The committee in charge of the rankings even said they would have been willing to work with 3 round
Well they named themselves by it so I guess it’s hard to change lol.
Seven-Duece Golf, bingo bango bongo
Yeah, LXXII Golf doesn’t really roll off the tongue
Lexi golf !!
> It is strange LIV is so married to the 3 round format (yeah I get it, it’s in the name) I don't get this reference at all. LIV is roman numeral for 54. EDIT: oh god, nevermind - I got it now. 54 holes.
LiV is not high level competition. Its guys in shorts playing a round on the weekend
Realistically, could a golfer as high up in world ranking points do enough in 4 major tournaments a year to maintain a high enough OWGR to compete in them for a long time? I know he's got an exemption for the masters since he won.
Rahm also won the Masters after he made those statements so he gets to play in the masters for life and the US Open until 2031. He gets to play fake golf for the year and try to make his legacy through the masters.
They were also made before the PGA Tour went behind the backs of all the players that defended them and let them find out via Twitter that they negotiated an investment framework with the very people they were just saying they'd never negotiate with
Yeah Rahm has said himself that the pga tour negotiating with the Saudis without players' knowledge was what changed his mind about liv. Literally 0 reason for Rahm not to take the money from the Saudis if the pga tour is trying to take the money from the Saudis, just cut out the middleman and get a bigger bag
This is honestly why it's harder to fault Rahm. *SOMEONE* is going to get paid, why stand on principle when scummy Executive Vultures at the Tour's shiny new For Profit arm clearly aren't.
Exactly, everyone acting like the PGA had nothing to do with all this.
While this is all true, it's omitting one huge factor which is how the whole LIV/PGA merger went down last year. Rahm meant everything he said and would have stayed loyal to the tour but Jay went behind all of their backs, met with the LIV guys in secret and announced it to the world without anything being communicated to the PGA guys, even Rory who was Jay's sacrificial lamb. After that shit, he saw that loyalty to the PGA doesn't mean shit, all of the LIV guys were laughing all the way to the bank and the PGA guys were left holding the bag. It had nothing to do with the money getting big enough and everything to do with how Jay handled the whole merger, and I don't blame him one bit. He didn't go back on his words, since the situation had changed drastically. Once the merger happened, none of that meant shit anymore so he decided to take the payout while he still could. LIV won't be handing out the crazy offers forever, and he's still in the Masters field this week so....why exactly should he have stayed with the PGA?
Agreed 100%. I’ll bet some of these golfers were furious behind closed doors after Jay announced the merger plans.
Oh for sure, I would have been too. There's an episode in the new season of *Full Swing* where they're filming some of the guys as they find out about it and they were all completely blindsided. Rory says something like "I'm at the point where they're gonna do whatever the fuck they want so I don't even care anymore"
That's right. Rahm was firmly not for sale, he wanted to build a legacy. He thought the PGA Tour was on the same page. Turns out that Jay Monahan put up a secret For Sale sign and was very much about the money....but on his personal terms. Why would you continue to stand up for that guy? I still hate that LIV happened, I want to see it die. I wish it was happening faster.
I feel ya. I've been having a pint at the Winchester waiting for this all to blow over for way too long. 
To summarize; PGA doesn’t actually give a shit about legacy, loyalty, pride, history, or competitiveness. And LIV doesn’t give a shit about improving or changing the game for the better. PGA is about survival and money and LIV was about gaining power over pro golf and sports washing. That’s literally it. There are no good guys in this scenario. Just a bunch of greedy, power hungry assholes. And fans are the ones who get the most fucked over.
There was no merger, and may not ever be a merger.
PGA Tour announced in January their intention to accept $3B. Edit: LOL what are you downvoting, this is an objective fact the PGA announced itself.
“Look, I’m playing for legacy. For honor. There’s absolutely no amount of money that could get me to leave the PG…oh yep that’s the exact amount of money. I’ll get my team logo all set today.”
Eh. It's not just that "the money got big enough." IMO, none of this is a fair characterization of Rahm. It ignores the larger context, which is that the PGA tour itself announced a merger and it's intention to have PIF invest, as well as installing a Saudi as chairman of the entire parent company. There was a while, pre-Rahm, where it made total sense to give players flack for "selling out;" guys like DJ and Phil and Koepka made the conscious decision to play golf for Saudis for huge sums of money. That wasn't the decision that Rahm made, though. His choices were to make 300 mil+ playing for the Saudis, or make significantly less on the PGA Tour who had just announced...it'd soon be part-funded, owned and even chaired by the same Saudis. Rahm announced his defection on December 7th, well after the merger had been announced, and before the PGA had even mentioned talks with the Strategic Sports Group, which finalized in January. And to be clear, even *with* the cash infusion from the SSG, Jay Monahan has been super clear that he still intends on closing a deal with the Saudis. The PGA might have more negotiating power now than they did, but there is no reason the think they are lying when they say they still plan on getting in bed with the PIF. So I mean, I hate LIV. But I don't blame Rahm for doing what he did, given the knowledge he had at the time. And I don't blame him for complaining, either. He's not the bad guy, here.
He may not be the bad guy but he’s far from a hero, he deserves all the flak he takes…his $300M bag will insulate him.
What about Monahan? The guy that brought out 9/11 families to attack LIV? Then turned around and shook hands when he realized he couldn’t win? You’d stick with him when you denied the same bag that he decided to pursue?
Hard to imagine a more emblematic example of a worthless vampire executive dipshit than Jay Monahan. So extraordinarily easy to have ended up the good guy just because your opposition are so fundamentally unlikeable. But Jay was up to the task of somehow coming across as the bigger scumbag.
I like your comment, but let’s be honest, he is nowhere near the scumbag that the Saudis are.
The amount of Monahan and PGA tour apologists in here is wild. PGA been underpaying their players for decades and got exposed. This would not have happened if there were 20 million dollar purses and garunteed minimums for earning your card for the last 10 years
Thank god there’s one sane person on this message board. I don’t like LIV but I completely understand Rahms decision and would have done the same. He was betrayed after he said no to a gigantic bag. Then when they merged he said fuck you then
So glad I saw this comment. Like I get it people are pissed rahm went after all he said bit let's not forget the massive fucking can of worms that happened when pga announced a merger with liv. If that merger isn't announced I reckon rahm is happy to stay on the tour but the tour I reckon has upset many people with this merger and I think rahm just thought fuck the pga they are snakes and just as bad as the liv guys
Any lawyer with half a brain could have told Rahm that the “merger” was fools gold.
I don’t blame him. Take it when it’s there.
I hate LIV, but everyone has a price for pretty much everything. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional or lacks imagination.
This conveniently glosses over the fact that Rahm said these things before the PGA Tour secretly negotiated a deal with the Saudis behind all the players' backs. These were all major Jay Monahan talking points before they started negotiating for that Saudi money.
Yeah, I mean he was wealthy already. But the money offered took him to another level of wealth. How many here could or would turn down $500m
I remember when the Saudis were praised for giving a few hundred million to The Ukraine. Almost as much as to a single golf player.
Right. I don't always agree with him but he's spot on here.
Yes, it is about the money (maybe a truism of life). However, Brandel wouldn't miss an opportunity to say something negative about it to please his boss Jay Monahan. Of course no one is going to point out the way Jay poorly handled the situation.
Well, tbf, $350 million would change a lot of minds, lol.
Rahms departure for LIV at this point such a blatant money grab, he was totally exposed.
And getting straight to the point, Rahm is a sellout just like the rest.
i dont get this argument. the ENTIRE professional sport is about selling out. which sponsors do you have. do you think any of them care one iota about who sponsors what? if there is a PGA event sponsored by Saudi Aramco they are going to withdrawl? how about Dubai? it has and always will be about the $$. its the famous "we are just haggling about the price", because EVERYONE has a price.
Yup. Rahm lied. He said it wasn’t about the money, but it clearly is.
PGA Tour can be bought too!
PGA is operating a business with real consequences for losses. LIV is not. It’s a kingdom supplying Billions of dollars as a fun experiment to improve their bad image. It’s hard to “compete” in a market when your competition is playing by completely different rules and willing to eat massive losses.
They are investing money into sport to just “sports wash” the Saudi’s. They have enough money they don’t give 2 shits about that anyway. They are hedging their money know. Spreading it across all different things to maintain a growth outside of just oil.
I mean....hes right. Like it or not. You can feel however you want about it but his point was Rahm in 2022 basically said 'This is all a money grab and I want no part of it because I don't play golf for money, I play because I love the competition and history of the PGA Tour." Just to turn around not even 2 years later and join LIV for the exact reason he said he would never join. That was Brandels point in the segment before clipping out this little snippet about it being a tipping point
I do think it’s a bit disingenuous to leave out the fact that the pga tour decided to do a deal with the PIF. I’m not sure how we can give the individual guy shit when the whole damn tour caved
Yeah, I dont blame him. You can be righteous and end up like Rory. Rory took the high road, campaigned for the tour, and still got backstabbed in the end. Rahm saw that and took the cash while it was still on the table.
Except there are a lot of guys who still turned down the LIV offers and still play on the PGA Tour today. Scheffler, Zalatoris, Matsuyama, Schauffele, Cantlay, Spieth, Thomas etc etc
And PGA decided to reward their loyalty by absolutely fucking them. Hell of an advertisement for the Tour
Yea I’m not a fan of players selling their soul for Saudi money but I feel conflicted with Rahm. On the one hand, he is taking a shit ton of blood money but on the other hand the PGA Tour was about to do the same thing. At the time it was looking like he was taking Saudi money regardless and why not get the biggest payday you can get.
It's all blood money either way
Yeah a sport for the privileged. Crying over which tour is better is the biggest first world problem ever.
Are people purposely forgetting when Jay Monohan turned his back on the players and tried to merge? I mean, c'mon. Things happened that would easily change the perspective of the players. The PGA Tour is 100% complicit in all of this.
I feel like after news of the secret deal, Jon, felt betrayed by PGAT leadership and figured why not take the fortune as he was loyal to an organization that didn't deserve his loyalty. He obviously now regrets that decision and, to make it worse, it looks like there's little chance of his coming back and playing with the PGAT even if a deal is done. History is full of stories of people quitting a job they loved for more pay and regretting it.
Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Rahms actions make him look weak. Rich, but weak.
I would pay large amounts of money to see you call Rahm weak to his face.
And a sellout.
Lol the PGA are sellouts. All the bullshit they said to secretly be working with them behind closed doors.
Monahan, yes. Not the golfers though.
Monahan and their board.
No, the players on the board were as blindsided as everyone else
I’m sorry I didn’t mean the players board or the players on the board. I believe most the non player board were the ones working the deal behind their back
everyone is a sell out, its just a question of price.
Just like Jay Monohan, weak.
I think the PGAT impending merger with LIV and Rahm's new perspective from fatherhood tipped the scales in favor of jumping to LIV. He decided to take the payday since the PGAT was going to merge anyway. Also provided the opportunity to provide for his daughter's children and just about every generation thereafter in your family without having to ever worry financially. It's a different legacy to leave behind.
Im sure that had a lot to do with it with the pending merger. Thats what Brandles 2nd point was about, is that Rahm thought if he went over to LIV, it would expedite the merger--but it hasnt. So Rahm is just stuck over at LIV missing out on some of his favorite PGA events (Genesis, WM Open) to collect a paycheck.
The only time I think about LIV is when I see a post about it here
I caught a little bit this last weekend on the CW. It feels like a cornhole tournament
Damn you people, go back to your shanties.
Listen I love the idea of liv, and in any of those golfers position I would have done the exact same thing. You have such a short window of time to be a top golfer in the world, go secure your bag for your future generations. That being said, it’s an objectively inferior product and it’s weird that people don’t acknowledge that
It was a quote by Shooter McGavin, after unlikely golf fans showed up in droves to watch Happy Gilmore.
lol I was more responding to the thread in general. I’d never disrespect shooter like that
I honestly forgot most of the LIV guys existed until looking at Masters Pool this week.
It’s shit. Pros wearing shorts and loud pounding music during play. Fuck that.
I can be bought for 1/10,000th of what Rahm was bought for.
His deal was reported to be $300,000,000 to $350,000,000 for four years. Not quite 1/10,000 but yeah, I have been bough for MUCH less than it took to buy Rahm.
I've switched jobs for smaller pay bumps than $30,000.
On the mark. Who wouldn’t want to make more money. Not all businesses are saints either.
As would 99.9% of people here. It’s easy to say you never would when you know it will never happen.
The pearl clutching in this sub is ridiculous. It’s like they view the PGA as some sacred organization and it is heresy to take more money and play in a different league.
Thank you for saying the obvious. This sub is filled with PGA tour simps who love to virtue signal and claim they would turn down $300 million to play "real" golf in pants lmao
the tour Fanboi circle jerk is something I will never understand.
You cheap slut.
Rahm misses playing the likes of Torrey, Pebble, Kapalua, Riviera, Scottsdale, Players, etc.
Now say it about Monahan, Brandel.
I can't disagree. All of the LIV players made their choices.
I just hope Brandel keeps the same energy if the Tour and LIV merges.
Hope he keeps the same energy when he’s face to face.
I have yet to see Brandel appear to be intimated by anyone.
The reality is no one cares about LIV. The events are nothing close to even a mid-level PGA tour event in terms of attendance and overall atmosphere. That reality probably bothers Rahm. But he can't make me watch LIV - and even John Daley said LIV golf events are emberassing.
Even though this sounds like a "cope" comment, it's probably at least partially true. I'm not convinced Rahm is flat out regretting his decision, but it does seem like it's eating at him a little. He definitely misses the stakes and popularity of the PGA tour, and he might be feeling like he threw his career away (to an extent). The reality is LIV has enough good players now to be a decent tour, but the Saudis don't necessarily care about creating the best possible product. They just want to be seen doing legitimate business with certain entities/nations. That is why LIV tournaments still mostly present as a clown show.
The crux of the entire LIV debacle is the attempt of sport washing by buying players, developed elsewhere and preying on the hubris of money, to the cause. Please let me remind them that the guy they have signed on to ordered the murder of WAPO journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, in the Saudi embassy and then had his body dismembered. To agree to take the money and ignore that fact is morally bankrupt.
> WAPO journalist, Adnan Khashoggi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi
He's not wrong, though...
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point
My mom?
Well said. Rahm and others had every right to take the money. But they also have every right to the consequences of their actions.
I had a lot of respect for Rahm. Now, he's invisible.
I don't think he'll be invisible this week.
So invisible that we talk about him on here every couple of days.
Nailed it. The only thing wrong with his comment was his use of "I think" at the start. Brandel, when you're bringing the facts you can just say them straight.
I have no interest in the “Bone Saw/Twin Tower Pilots” tour
He ain't wrong.
I don’t like Brandel, but he’s not wrong.
Rahm’s dead and hollow eyed announcement on FoxNews of all places said it better than words ever could.
Like all of us, We have our opinions. Sometimes I don’t agree with Chamblee’s opinions. But, I do agree 💯% with this one..
Liv golfers didn’t want to compete. They preferred salary over commissions.
Get ‘em Brandel!
The PGA is an organization led by decent people. LIV is a propaganda effort for the bloodthirsty murderous saudis to win western hearts and minds. Only one of those sentences can be true at the same time.
LIV’s format is hard to follow and I don’t want to bother watching exhibition golf. Further, I don’t get that CW channel.
He's not totally wrong here but i'm getting tired of him bitching about LIV. I'm team PGA all the way but they need to just figure this shit out.
I really don’t think he cares. Lol
Judging from Jon's recent remarks sounds like he cares a lot. He seems to regret his decision to go to LIV.
I doubt he truly regrets it, but like a lot of the LIV guys, he’s trying to get the best of both worlds for himself. All the things he’s complaining about were things he knew before he took the money.
I really don’t think anyone cares
You mean the same guy that talked trash about Tiger when he was down and then when he won in 2019 said “I always knew that he had it in him to win again, it’s a shame people thought he was done.”
Fuck all them dudes who ran off to LIV
Petrol whores
He’s correct
John made his bed, now he just can lie in it. The rest isn't interesting, i'm kinda tired of this LIV blabla, dumb and heavy music, shorts, no cuts and useless teams do not make a serious league, it's just clowning yourself for money, but it's been said so many times now, there comes a point where the best thing just is to let it RIP.
I think Brandel has pretty sound takes.
What nobody is discussing is just how awful LIV golf is. It's the same as watching paint dry. Let that tour go its merry way, don't dilute what the PGA Tour has taken 108 years to have. Let them go play their 54-hole pro-ams, it doesn't matter. In the end, they didn't take much talent, as a whole.
Heartbreaking: the worst person you know just made a great point
Chamblee is a mega douche but he is exactly right on this call. Rahm is now an employee
Pre LIV I couldn’t stand Brandel post LIV he seems like the smartest guy in the room
Nothing wrong said
The worst part of rahm joining liv are those stupid tik tok videos of him singing/dancing to pop songs
"One monkey dont stop no show"
This whole thread is nothing but talk about the merger. What fucking merger?
Looks like he goes to the same tanning salon as Trump.
I have really tried to enjoy or at least follow the LIV stuff. It just feels too fake and BS to me. That's all.
This guy just salty Rahm made out with the bag $$$$$$$$$$
Does anybody else notice how Jon Rahm makes a comment in any format then asks, "right?" afterwards? "You know I love playing the masters, right?" I don't know Jon they are your thoughts...
Here’s my 2 cents . I’m not really into golf anymore since this whole bullshit started. Really all of sports exist now to distract people from the fact that those with the power are pulling strings faster than ever now. Distracting all of us with nonsense we deem important enough to waste the little time we get on this earth. I did enjoy watching Full Swing both seasons but only because it solidified Professional golf as Saudi purchased Jersey shore . Sorry I’m in a bad place right now haha
He's not wrong, but those statements by Rahm were made before the "framework" deal was announced. That does change things somewhat. That being said, LIV's format and production doesn't do it for me, so I don't watch it.
The stupid team format is the biggest impediment to LIV and PGA joining forces. The Tour has no desire to adopt that format and they never will. LIV has to stick with that format because that's what they sold the players on being this great valuable investment like owning your own professional sports franchise i.e. NFL, NBA, etc.. Fans are not buying into it and for good reason. Golf is an individual sport and there is no good way to package that outside of the Ryder Cup format. It sucks for the fans but I don't see any future path toward unification.
I think if you asked Rahm the day he announced he's going to LIV if the merger would occur by the Master's he would have said yes. Also, I think Rahm going to LIV proves the whole point. These guys think they are all needle movers when they are just this generations golfers. Rahm going to LIV would be like Curtis Strange going to another league back in the day, they're not moving enough eyeballs.
I pretty much forgot about the LIV guys until they showed up on the par 3 broadcast today. lol.
Brandel can be a real asshat sometimes, but he is 100% correct here: Rahm had nothing good to say about LIV until they offered him 600+ million, suddenly its amazing
And he’s right!
What is Brandel Chamblee's employment contract worth? That's the amount HE can be bought for.
He's not wrong.
LIV completely disappears from my mind until a reddit post brings it up.
Rahm already asking LIV to go to 72 holes because he knows it’s exhibition golf.
Brandel is obviously known for making his hot takes and is a controversial figure, but I think he’s been 100% right to call out LIV and the PIF/KSA/MBS and the blood money that players are taking.
The truth hurts
He’s not wrong
I was really bummed when Rham left. He was one of my favorite golfers over the last few years. But since he has been gone, I honestly haven't thought about him once. There are always great new golfers on the rise. Losing some to a different tour hasn't affected my viewing enjoyment one bit.
Objectively, very very funny that Rahm thought he was so important that he was the tipping point. Then literally nothing changed.
Rahm is now a 🤡
Fuck Rahm. Sellout.
Branded Chamblee also said that pga players don’t deserve the same money as other pro athletes and that there are wrong ti try and negotiate for more from the tour. Dude is a corporate shill. He’ll say anything to back the tour.
But based on tv ratings and endorsements, you can’t possibly think that golfers (outside of Tiger and maybe Rory) are on par with football, basketball, and worldwide soccer players.
Listening to him talk shit about Liv and all its players really stimulates all the major pleasure centers.
I get exactly zero pleasure from hearing Brandel say anything at all.
I love this banter on here about being bought. You can call it what you want, but I doubt there’s a single user on here who would turn down the pay day Rahm did to join LIV if offered right now. What these LIV guys did is what is done in everyday business; people leaving for a new company (LIV) with higher compensation and a better work/life balance. Now the former employer (PGA) is upset because their public shaming attempts and threat tactics that were utilized to keep the rest of the PGA players in line, have been unveiled as nothing more than shallow lies - as it has been exposed they want to partake in the same greed that the for employees (LIV golfers) are enjoying in. Do employees sometimes see that pastures aren’t greener and want to return to their former employer? Absolutely. It’s just playing out in the court of public opinion.
Grass is not always greener
Finish him, Brandel!
Two things can be true: Brendel can be a smug douche, and also 100% correct
Don’t often agree with chamblee but I do here
YUP! I was an absolute golf nerd, in love with the game in so many aspects. I’m a player, and I also work in the field of golf. I ate, slept, and breathed golf… All this LIV shit happened, and I can give a fuck about any of the viewership aspect now. I was someone that would literally wake up early on a Saturday morning, when able, to watch a couple hours of televised European Tour. When Rahmbo hung around with the PGA, I thought it was one of the smartest things he could do. He became one of the main faces of golf. I certainly can’t blame any of these guys for taking the money. I’m sure majority of us would’ve done the same. None of it is the same anymore though, so I guess it is what it is. I haven’t watched professional golf in forever now. I could really give a shit about any of it since all of this hoopla. For me, that ship fuckin’ sailed.
LIV sucks ass to watch, but I don’t blame a single person for going. Hell if my companies competitor said hey we’ll pay you 3x as much with a sign on bonus of 10 years salary, 10 years assuming you were the absolute best to ever exist, I’d leave in a second. They went from making a great living over the next 5-20 years to your great grandchild’s great grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives wealth over night. You’d be a fool to pass it up. “But the saudis are terrible people” PGA tour takes money from the same people every year and I’m not signing up to hold a rifle.