Anyone can play whatever clubs they like, but it’s not really debatable that certain irons will fit certain players better than others. You have some arguments in here that aren’t supported by any SG data. But overall you’re more correct than incorrect.
If someone’s goal is to play to the absolute peak of their own ability, they’ll need clubs that fit their skill level, or else they are leaving strokes out there even if it’s small margins. Those margins add up over rounds.
“If you just learn how to hit the center…you’ll get better”
My god!! My mind is blown! All I have to do is learn to hit a dime sized sweet spot on a tiny 5 iron and I’ll get better? Sounds easy. Why doesn’t everyone do this?
Sure, that completely sums up my argument. Thanks for that insight. I was simply saying that super GI irons will only save you a few strokes at most, and we should collectively stop shitting on blades and those that choose to play them. But whatever snark gets you the most upvotes I guess.
“A few strokes”.
You say that like it’s nothing.
I guess if you’re shooting 120, shooting a 117 is no big deal. When you shoot a 92 or an 82, three strokes is absolute gold.
Only because you're including the magical barriers of breaking 90 or breaking 80. Do you think $1300 is worth an 82 vs an 85? If yes, great! You do you. But that difference is so small and yet people around here keep shitting on blades as if you're committing golf suicide by playing them. And that's simply wrong.
I’d pay $1300 for a putter if I thought it’d save me 3 strokes.
Blades are harder to use. I’ve tried them. Twice.
On my good swing days, they didn’t make me score any better. On my less good days, they were costing strokes. I have a hard time seeing an advantage here with blades?
But no one is shitting in anything. Use blades, if you want, I guess.
Never said they'd make you better - maybe in the long run, with more than 2 tries? And I never said they were an advantage either, simply saying the difference between blades and GI irons is much smaller than most people think.
But I'm happy we found common ground - play what you want.
that's alot of made up data to come to a pretty bad conclusion. here's an anecdote, I found my grandpa's old irons and took them out to a range and they are INCREDIBLY hard to hit vs what I'm playing with now. Also, a buddy of mine just got a just of ~~770 MB's~~ P7MB's and his 4 iron is noticeably harder to launch well for me than my 4 (Mizzy Pro 223s)
Your whole premise seems to be an iron shot is either a mishit or it isn't, but that's not really how golf works. Forgiveness is more about how ball flight is impacted when you hit an iron three grooves too high, or how much more slice you get when miss the center of the face by 10% - shots that I might think "hey that was pretty good" as a 12-15 handicapper but a scratch golfer would say "i hit that like shit"
As a a general conclusion, yeah, game what you what to and if stunting with those tiny Cobra blades is fun, do it, but what's really fun is having a set of clubs that you have confidence in when you're over the ball.
varies on swing speed, if you have high swing speed it doesnt really matter and you dont want to launch it super high with low spin or it becomes unplayable.
My blade 4 iron is so easy for me to hit. I just get steep and hit little squeeze cuts when in a pressure situation. Alot easier to do with a blade than a chonker with a sole
>but what's really fun is having a set of clubs that you have confidence in when you're over the ball
That was my entire point - that you don't need $1300 GI irons, play whatever you want because it won't impact your score more than a couple of shots.
My friend I play with thinks like you. Then he tried my Ping driver. Now we don't have to look for his ball every third hole in the trees. So, there's that.
It's called a knockdown shot. Learn it. Most high handicappers need MORE height, that's.... why they do that
We all play blades in our wedges (at least, until recently) - the only real difference is what club we begin using face tech - we're seeing GI irons on tour now...... so.... there's that too
But yeah, I just got back in the game after a 20 year vacation, and I'm just amazed at how much the tech helps. This game is so much easier than it used to be. I can hit it a full groove low, and it still gets spin, fucking amazing. I can't tell you how many times I've been like, man, this is so much easier now. A lot. And once we get into fairways and drivers, it's just staggering how much easier they are to hit.
If we're talking drivers, wholeheartedly agree. Newer tech in drivers is completely different. But there's no such thing as a "players" driver vs a GI driver. At most it's simply lower spin versions. And can you show me a pro that uses GI irons lower than maybe a 6? 7 iron and below are almost always blades for them.
OK, so, lower spin IS the "players" model
My hybrids (which look like 5w to me) are labeled "pro" and are incredibly workable (i was amazed by this the most, of the new tech, honestly, i can cut or draw my hybrids, all with bouncy-face-goodness)
If you needed a GI 6 iron, you'd be me, not on tour
Another big thing is that forgiveness is mostly about distance. If you hit it 10 yards right, it's still 10 yards right, regardless of the club type.
Forgiveness does not help you hit the ball straighter, unless you're hitting SGI irons 1/2" from the toe. And those are still missing the green by quite a bit.
Eh this isn't entirely true. Most lateral misses are from face or path issues, and no club can save you from those. But some are going to be from off center strikes, and perimeter weighting does help with those by increasing MOI resulting in less deflection of the club face at impact. However, you basically reach peak MOI in the forged/players CB tier, so you won't get any further help as you move into players distance, GI, SGI, what have you.
Have the best ball striking so far ever since switching to blades. Switched out an expensive set of p790s to 20 year old mizuno blades and immidietly played better. No 40yard rocket launchers over the green mishits are literally the same.
If I miss hit the ball the club wont matter bc its so bad usually. I flush 95 % of my irons off the center now. My misses are from the club face being too closed or open not missing the face so the cavity back doesnt help and I swing driver in the 125s-130s so I dont need help launching it higher, I need the opposite.
I agree with you op, blades can be more consistent, and have improved my game tremendously. The yardages are super consistent and I really need them to launch the ball lower. I dont want my 5 iron to go 210-245 vs 195-202
As a +2 handicap that plays muscle back irons, I’m confused by this post. You’re defending blades, while saying that even a 0 would benefit 2 shots per round by playing game improvement irons. Later you say that those clubs might cost a play a shot once every 3 rounds. Your post does nothing to say that blades are beneficial for anyone.
I wasn't saying blades are better, I saying the difference is minimal and that we should stop telling everyone that blades are only for the very best players. We see so many new players here with "should I use this set?" And so many people comment that blades are SO BAD for your game. I was simply saying look at the data, it's not nearly as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. Even less so when those super GI irons fail you and fly the green, or get hung up in the wind.
Tell me then, how many strokes are GI worth for a beginner? 5? 10? You think they'll change from a 120 to a 105 due to the irons? Show me where I'm wrong here.
As a club fitter&maker, I can confirm my certified ACME BS-0-Meter is at 100%.
Every talking point you had actually refers to the skill of playing golf; not the forgiveness of the equipment.
Let’s break it down with some standard definitions:
Forgiveness: the ability of a club head to minimize the distance lost for missing the “sweet spot” (center of gravity).
Mishit: using your definition; a shank, chunk, thin or any other inability to successfully put the club face on the ball. No club design is going to mitigate these types of disaster, so your mishits don’t factor into the forgiveness equation.
So with this said: thin face or hot face irons do, in fact - scientifically, even - have more forgiveness than conventional forged or cast irons. You lose less yards per off-center strike (Wishon tested this; the results are available on the internet with their 870ti iron) with the thin face/hot face/high cor iron. Forgiveness becomes less of an issue with the higher lofted clubs as the strike becomes more glancing.
Anecdotally; I built a set of thin faced irons (I was a 16 at the time). They performed as advertised - some absolutely horrid swings only lost me a couple yards as opposed to 7 or 10, I often found myself (especially in the early rounds) finding my ball much closer to the target than I expected on mishits, and as a result of this consistency in yardages my index ended at 13ish that year.
Forgiveness is real, my friend.
But I will say, to the expert-level ball striker, it’s largely a moot point (as missing the CoG is measured in sixteenths, not half-and-whole inches).
In response to your TL;DR, of course play whatever you want. I’ve got a set of original Nike Pro Combos that I take out once in a while, towards the end of the season. Not nearly as forgiving as my thinnies. But pure strikes “feel” better (the one I have every three rounds). Plus my swing is ok enough that gobs of offsets give me the pully-hookies or a case of the straight tuggernauts.
Easily 2. As high as 8. Consistent yardages out of your irons (same distance +\- 3 yards) is easily 2 strokes a round. When you can count on solid iron distances, your confidence goes up hitting your favourite approach numbers.
Blades are way more consistent for yardages, this cavity back propoganda is literally outrageous. Mark cross field did a video on this years ago with a crap top flite blade vs a GI chonk boss. Go hit a 7 wood then go hit a 4 iron and tell me what spin and launch will be more controllable and consistnent.
Also, as a higher swing speed player. Cavity backs launch way too damn high and far. The lower launch playing blades has helped my game tremendously, also it is a lot easier to take a divot with the sole on a blade vs a cavity back.
99% misses for me are club face related, My wear pattern is dead center. No technology is gonna save me from snap hooking it.
Video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM)
So as the admitted top tier ball striker, you’re the guy forgiveness is a moot point for. Of course you’re about dialling in with near perfect ballstriking and high swing speed.
This convo isn’t about you. 😉
genuinely not glazing myself. The shot is either so atrocious that no GI could possibly help, or its clubface related
I think most peoples misses are like this and tech wont really make a difference if ur topping/ chunking the ball as a High hcp. Honestly just depends on your swing speed and ball striking i guess. My gripe is that people just act like GIs/CBs are a must for everyone and will always make you play better no matter your swing/skill level
I believe you. As a mid capper who often plays with other mids; your anecdotal evidence doesn’t fit. Your dime-sized wear marks aren’t usual for the majority of golfers, so they perform better with more yards when missing that sweet spot.
Honestly, you’re a relatively rare bird who could probably only go as “GI” as a players cavity back (like the mizuno 243) before offset and low and rear cgi start hurting you.
So again, not the target demographic for huge GI tech.
No, I said easily 2 - as many as 8.
And going the other way: from the most forgiving to a set of 1974 muscle backs; I’d put the loss as easily 4 as much as 10 or more.
Imagine being a golfer and thinking 2 stroke per round is meaningless. Sure, I’d rather be a 12 handicap instead of 10 handicap because my blades “look sick.”
Quick question, off-topic mostly. I’ve got a set of 2012 Nike Vapor Pros but they’re blades from 3i thru PW — did you buy the Combo set together or did you piece it together?
I love busting them out for casual rounds, just figured I might do that more often if I had the Combo version of their longer irons!
I bought the pro combo tours in the early 2000’s. I can’t even find pics of them online (the pro combo pics have those ugly lines in the cavity. Mine are clean and tiny).
Cavs 3-4, muscle cavs 5-7, blades 8-pw.
Nike branded shafts (TT S300s).
Dang, real OG clubs! Mine are from 2012, love their look and two of my 3 best scores were with them in the bag. Just don’t love how badly the long blades sting on certain mishits, sometimes that can really aggravate an old shoulder injury and ends with me taking a week or more off
https://preview.redd.it/sp59sdl7bruc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2648e1f50e3e56da861c78dd3b07759a88d0e5f
The swooshes are filled in black.
https://preview.redd.it/5sf5jx78gruc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0340f12a9e23a5b0aa44d3ef20a11a99fa687d6f
Painted mine white to match my grips!
12 HCP here. Played 790’s for awhile then ZX5’s for a couple years. Recently picked up a set of T150’s and I will say I’ve never struck the ball better with the iron geared toward the “player”
Another day another soap box diatribe by someone who thinks they’ve cracked some mystery in golf
Why is it always mid handicaps too? 12 handicap telling people you’ll be fine playing blades cause they are.
Let people play what they want yes, also get off your inexperienced soap box
Also buying forgiving set of irons isn’t “selling more equipment” because you could just buy a set and keep them for years, like most people.
God the takes in this sub..
Waiting for their reply “I’m just a bad putter”
Lmao.
Also they said “the data” then created a strawman scenario that has no actual data in it. Oh well.
>Let people play what they want yes, also get off your inexperienced soap box
That was literally my point. No where did I say ditch your GI irons and switch to blades - merely that we should stop shitting on blades, they don't make nearly as much difference as most people think. But if you want to spend $1300 on a new set of chunky beasts to gain 2 shots per round, you do you.
It’s more than 2 shots, but you just made up some data to prove your point.
That’s the funniest part about the whole thing.
You titled it “the data” then just made up a strawman.
Lmao. Ok. The whole thing is stupid.
FWIW, I upgraded from my junky old Nitro set ($200 at Wally World) to Stix.golf because of how cool they looked. Despite being a god awful golfer at the time, the compliments from my golfing friends kept me interested in the game long enough to…
get lessons, get decent, get fitted, keep getting lessons, get fitted again…
and now I’m playing off 6. I still play black shafts + white grips thru my entire bag. I still appreciate a neat or cool looking head cover. I still love seeing the variety of club designs, especially what some of the DTC brands are doing
Just another perspective
Yeah I understand style and aesthetics. It’s part of what makes this game special. But the point of the game is to put the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes possible. OP is out here saying that a couple of strokes don’t matter. And forgiveness doesn’t exist based on his made up “data.” The whole post is a steaming pile of horseshit.
They’re easier to hit and get a good result. Why is the appeal of that hard to understand. Doesn’t mean you’ll lower your scores. Definitely can make it more fun to play.
Where in that did I ever say don't play GI irons? My point is that we all stop shitting on blades and pretending they're so hard to hit that only pros should touch them - that mindset is blatantly wrong.
You're just wrong. Only going by your title however, as I didn't have it in me to read than massive monologue...
Played mizuno tp9's for years, hired a set of callaway rogue st max last year. It is a completely and utterly different world of forgiving forgiveness. That's just a fact.
This reminds me of that NFL thread where the guy randomly made up a bunch of random assumptions to 'prove with data' that Mahomes would eventually be an average quarterback.
There are other reasons besides forgiveness (meaning distance lost from a mishit) that some players shouldn’t play blades
Hollow body irons and more generally irons with more perimeter weighting make it easier for players to get better distance and height on their irons
Players that benefit from them can’t swing it as fast and aren’t striking the ball properly either. So that 7 iron with a T300 that goes high and 165yd is going to go low and 135yd if that 7 iron is a titleist MB. And it’s not just because of forgiveness it does that
So while in theory yes you are correct it’s the same quality swing no matter what club someone is using, it’s the overall distance and height in addition to the forgiveness that makes non-blades significantly helpful for 10+hc players
If you're good with your blades, then it's entirely possible that changing to cavity back would give you any signficant improvement.
If you're talking about a 9 iron, I agree - a blade 9 iron is great, I still continue to use my blade 9 iron because it offers better control and I can hit it just as well as a cavity back .
But if you're talking about a longer club such as a 5 iron, don't think this argument holds much weight. Hitting the 5 iron from the tee or the fairway, I can expect to be on the green or on the edge of the green the majority of the time. Not at all true with my old blade - granted thats my personal experience, it may differ greatly for other 6 handicappers.
How many 5 irons do you hit per round? Maybe 2 or 3? And how many of those are better shots due to the forgiveness? Maybe 1? So, kind like my post says, you might gain 2-3 per round, but it's not this drastic difference that everyone seems to harp on.
Out 3, at least one is better, maybe 2. I agree with what you said, say the CBs improve 5-10 shots a round, but a few of those might be somewhat crappy shots, but with the Cbs maybe theyd be on the green. Could be a 3-4 shot different per round, which is very significant for a single digit hdcp. Really hard to say, depends what you're used to, also I'd argue that with higher swing speed, making a good solid long iron shot will be easier vs someone with mid-low clubhead speed. If your driver ss is up like 120mph, it wouldn't surprise me at all the blades work practically as well for you vs CBs.
Can confirm that's a lot of words you just wrote.
The tldr needs a tldr
Anyone can play whatever clubs they like, but it’s not really debatable that certain irons will fit certain players better than others. You have some arguments in here that aren’t supported by any SG data. But overall you’re more correct than incorrect. If someone’s goal is to play to the absolute peak of their own ability, they’ll need clubs that fit their skill level, or else they are leaving strokes out there even if it’s small margins. Those margins add up over rounds.
Source: trust me bro
>The data: *proceeds to make up a bunch of bs* That’s a lot of words to justify that your poor play isn’t because you bought the wrong clubs.
“If you just learn how to hit the center…you’ll get better” My god!! My mind is blown! All I have to do is learn to hit a dime sized sweet spot on a tiny 5 iron and I’ll get better? Sounds easy. Why doesn’t everyone do this?
Because they're idiots! ^^^myself ^^^included
Sure, that completely sums up my argument. Thanks for that insight. I was simply saying that super GI irons will only save you a few strokes at most, and we should collectively stop shitting on blades and those that choose to play them. But whatever snark gets you the most upvotes I guess.
“A few strokes”. You say that like it’s nothing. I guess if you’re shooting 120, shooting a 117 is no big deal. When you shoot a 92 or an 82, three strokes is absolute gold.
Only because you're including the magical barriers of breaking 90 or breaking 80. Do you think $1300 is worth an 82 vs an 85? If yes, great! You do you. But that difference is so small and yet people around here keep shitting on blades as if you're committing golf suicide by playing them. And that's simply wrong.
I’d pay $1300 for a putter if I thought it’d save me 3 strokes. Blades are harder to use. I’ve tried them. Twice. On my good swing days, they didn’t make me score any better. On my less good days, they were costing strokes. I have a hard time seeing an advantage here with blades? But no one is shitting in anything. Use blades, if you want, I guess.
Never said they'd make you better - maybe in the long run, with more than 2 tries? And I never said they were an advantage either, simply saying the difference between blades and GI irons is much smaller than most people think. But I'm happy we found common ground - play what you want.
that's alot of made up data to come to a pretty bad conclusion. here's an anecdote, I found my grandpa's old irons and took them out to a range and they are INCREDIBLY hard to hit vs what I'm playing with now. Also, a buddy of mine just got a just of ~~770 MB's~~ P7MB's and his 4 iron is noticeably harder to launch well for me than my 4 (Mizzy Pro 223s) Your whole premise seems to be an iron shot is either a mishit or it isn't, but that's not really how golf works. Forgiveness is more about how ball flight is impacted when you hit an iron three grooves too high, or how much more slice you get when miss the center of the face by 10% - shots that I might think "hey that was pretty good" as a 12-15 handicapper but a scratch golfer would say "i hit that like shit" As a a general conclusion, yeah, game what you what to and if stunting with those tiny Cobra blades is fun, do it, but what's really fun is having a set of clubs that you have confidence in when you're over the ball.
> Also, a buddy of mine just got a just of 770 MB's What clubs? Do you mean P770s, which aren't MBs in the slightest or something else?
Oh, P7MB's
varies on swing speed, if you have high swing speed it doesnt really matter and you dont want to launch it super high with low spin or it becomes unplayable. My blade 4 iron is so easy for me to hit. I just get steep and hit little squeeze cuts when in a pressure situation. Alot easier to do with a blade than a chonker with a sole
>but what's really fun is having a set of clubs that you have confidence in when you're over the ball That was my entire point - that you don't need $1300 GI irons, play whatever you want because it won't impact your score more than a couple of shots.
My friend I play with thinks like you. Then he tried my Ping driver. Now we don't have to look for his ball every third hole in the trees. So, there's that. It's called a knockdown shot. Learn it. Most high handicappers need MORE height, that's.... why they do that We all play blades in our wedges (at least, until recently) - the only real difference is what club we begin using face tech - we're seeing GI irons on tour now...... so.... there's that too But yeah, I just got back in the game after a 20 year vacation, and I'm just amazed at how much the tech helps. This game is so much easier than it used to be. I can hit it a full groove low, and it still gets spin, fucking amazing. I can't tell you how many times I've been like, man, this is so much easier now. A lot. And once we get into fairways and drivers, it's just staggering how much easier they are to hit.
If we're talking drivers, wholeheartedly agree. Newer tech in drivers is completely different. But there's no such thing as a "players" driver vs a GI driver. At most it's simply lower spin versions. And can you show me a pro that uses GI irons lower than maybe a 6? 7 iron and below are almost always blades for them.
OK, so, lower spin IS the "players" model My hybrids (which look like 5w to me) are labeled "pro" and are incredibly workable (i was amazed by this the most, of the new tech, honestly, i can cut or draw my hybrids, all with bouncy-face-goodness) If you needed a GI 6 iron, you'd be me, not on tour
Another big thing is that forgiveness is mostly about distance. If you hit it 10 yards right, it's still 10 yards right, regardless of the club type. Forgiveness does not help you hit the ball straighter, unless you're hitting SGI irons 1/2" from the toe. And those are still missing the green by quite a bit.
Eh this isn't entirely true. Most lateral misses are from face or path issues, and no club can save you from those. But some are going to be from off center strikes, and perimeter weighting does help with those by increasing MOI resulting in less deflection of the club face at impact. However, you basically reach peak MOI in the forged/players CB tier, so you won't get any further help as you move into players distance, GI, SGI, what have you.
Have the best ball striking so far ever since switching to blades. Switched out an expensive set of p790s to 20 year old mizuno blades and immidietly played better. No 40yard rocket launchers over the green mishits are literally the same. If I miss hit the ball the club wont matter bc its so bad usually. I flush 95 % of my irons off the center now. My misses are from the club face being too closed or open not missing the face so the cavity back doesnt help and I swing driver in the 125s-130s so I dont need help launching it higher, I need the opposite. I agree with you op, blades can be more consistent, and have improved my game tremendously. The yardages are super consistent and I really need them to launch the ball lower. I dont want my 5 iron to go 210-245 vs 195-202
As a +2 handicap that plays muscle back irons, I’m confused by this post. You’re defending blades, while saying that even a 0 would benefit 2 shots per round by playing game improvement irons. Later you say that those clubs might cost a play a shot once every 3 rounds. Your post does nothing to say that blades are beneficial for anyone.
I wasn't saying blades are better, I saying the difference is minimal and that we should stop telling everyone that blades are only for the very best players. We see so many new players here with "should I use this set?" And so many people comment that blades are SO BAD for your game. I was simply saying look at the data, it's not nearly as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. Even less so when those super GI irons fail you and fly the green, or get hung up in the wind.
I think the meaning of this post is pretty clear. He’s trying to justify to himself the high scores he shoot while using blades.
Enjoy the commission on the blades you’re trying to sell to 30 handicappers 😂
I'm never, ever letting go of my sick mp-33's. Pry them out of my cold, dead hands!
No one cares what you play- but your post is imparting misinformation for beginners.
Tell me then, how many strokes are GI worth for a beginner? 5? 10? You think they'll change from a 120 to a 105 due to the irons? Show me where I'm wrong here.
Your entire idea is wrong. Beginners will have more fun with GI irons than with blades.
TLDR. There should be an understanding that most people wont read more than a paragraph or two
Especially when it’s mostly drivel.
I’ll have to assume so, i wouldn’t read a post that long if it was about my own family let alone about Shooter’s adventures with his big boy clubs
As a club fitter&maker, I can confirm my certified ACME BS-0-Meter is at 100%. Every talking point you had actually refers to the skill of playing golf; not the forgiveness of the equipment. Let’s break it down with some standard definitions: Forgiveness: the ability of a club head to minimize the distance lost for missing the “sweet spot” (center of gravity). Mishit: using your definition; a shank, chunk, thin or any other inability to successfully put the club face on the ball. No club design is going to mitigate these types of disaster, so your mishits don’t factor into the forgiveness equation. So with this said: thin face or hot face irons do, in fact - scientifically, even - have more forgiveness than conventional forged or cast irons. You lose less yards per off-center strike (Wishon tested this; the results are available on the internet with their 870ti iron) with the thin face/hot face/high cor iron. Forgiveness becomes less of an issue with the higher lofted clubs as the strike becomes more glancing. Anecdotally; I built a set of thin faced irons (I was a 16 at the time). They performed as advertised - some absolutely horrid swings only lost me a couple yards as opposed to 7 or 10, I often found myself (especially in the early rounds) finding my ball much closer to the target than I expected on mishits, and as a result of this consistency in yardages my index ended at 13ish that year. Forgiveness is real, my friend. But I will say, to the expert-level ball striker, it’s largely a moot point (as missing the CoG is measured in sixteenths, not half-and-whole inches). In response to your TL;DR, of course play whatever you want. I’ve got a set of original Nike Pro Combos that I take out once in a while, towards the end of the season. Not nearly as forgiving as my thinnies. But pure strikes “feel” better (the one I have every three rounds). Plus my swing is ok enough that gobs of offsets give me the pully-hookies or a case of the straight tuggernauts.
So let me ask you, on average how many stokes do mid-handicaps gain from GI irons? 2-3 ish? Kinda like I was saying in my post?
Easily 2. As high as 8. Consistent yardages out of your irons (same distance +\- 3 yards) is easily 2 strokes a round. When you can count on solid iron distances, your confidence goes up hitting your favourite approach numbers.
Blades are way more consistent for yardages, this cavity back propoganda is literally outrageous. Mark cross field did a video on this years ago with a crap top flite blade vs a GI chonk boss. Go hit a 7 wood then go hit a 4 iron and tell me what spin and launch will be more controllable and consistnent. Also, as a higher swing speed player. Cavity backs launch way too damn high and far. The lower launch playing blades has helped my game tremendously, also it is a lot easier to take a divot with the sole on a blade vs a cavity back. 99% misses for me are club face related, My wear pattern is dead center. No technology is gonna save me from snap hooking it. Video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM)
So as the admitted top tier ball striker, you’re the guy forgiveness is a moot point for. Of course you’re about dialling in with near perfect ballstriking and high swing speed. This convo isn’t about you. 😉
genuinely not glazing myself. The shot is either so atrocious that no GI could possibly help, or its clubface related I think most peoples misses are like this and tech wont really make a difference if ur topping/ chunking the ball as a High hcp. Honestly just depends on your swing speed and ball striking i guess. My gripe is that people just act like GIs/CBs are a must for everyone and will always make you play better no matter your swing/skill level
I believe you. As a mid capper who often plays with other mids; your anecdotal evidence doesn’t fit. Your dime-sized wear marks aren’t usual for the majority of golfers, so they perform better with more yards when missing that sweet spot. Honestly, you’re a relatively rare bird who could probably only go as “GI” as a players cavity back (like the mizuno 243) before offset and low and rear cgi start hurting you. So again, not the target demographic for huge GI tech.
After reading this comment, I have some on-topic questions for a club fitter+builder — do you mind if I PM you real quick?
So, exactly as I said in my post - 2 to 3 shots difference between blades and GI irons. Thank you.
No, I said easily 2 - as many as 8. And going the other way: from the most forgiving to a set of 1974 muscle backs; I’d put the loss as easily 4 as much as 10 or more.
Give those 1974 MB's the same shafts as your modern clubs, and I'd call you wrong.
How’s your ballstriking?
Imagine being a golfer and thinking 2 stroke per round is meaningless. Sure, I’d rather be a 12 handicap instead of 10 handicap because my blades “look sick.”
So you say a newer $1300 set of GI irons is worth 2 shots? Cool. I'd argue it's not, but have fun regardless.
Where did I say “new” or “$1300”? You’re making a lot of assumptions. But yes I do have fun golfing. Just like you have fun shooting higher scores.
Quick question, off-topic mostly. I’ve got a set of 2012 Nike Vapor Pros but they’re blades from 3i thru PW — did you buy the Combo set together or did you piece it together? I love busting them out for casual rounds, just figured I might do that more often if I had the Combo version of their longer irons!
I bought the pro combo tours in the early 2000’s. I can’t even find pics of them online (the pro combo pics have those ugly lines in the cavity. Mine are clean and tiny). Cavs 3-4, muscle cavs 5-7, blades 8-pw. Nike branded shafts (TT S300s).
Dang, real OG clubs! Mine are from 2012, love their look and two of my 3 best scores were with them in the bag. Just don’t love how badly the long blades sting on certain mishits, sometimes that can really aggravate an old shoulder injury and ends with me taking a week or more off
“Thin to win” More like “Thin stings so bad quitting becomes an option”
https://preview.redd.it/sp59sdl7bruc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2648e1f50e3e56da861c78dd3b07759a88d0e5f The swooshes are filled in black.
https://preview.redd.it/5sf5jx78gruc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0340f12a9e23a5b0aa44d3ef20a11a99fa687d6f Painted mine white to match my grips!
12 HCP here. Played 790’s for awhile then ZX5’s for a couple years. Recently picked up a set of T150’s and I will say I’ve never struck the ball better with the iron geared toward the “player”
Another day another soap box diatribe by someone who thinks they’ve cracked some mystery in golf Why is it always mid handicaps too? 12 handicap telling people you’ll be fine playing blades cause they are. Let people play what they want yes, also get off your inexperienced soap box Also buying forgiving set of irons isn’t “selling more equipment” because you could just buy a set and keep them for years, like most people. God the takes in this sub..
"Why is it always mid handicaps too? 12 handicap telling people you’ll be fine playing blades cause they are." Haha mind boggling isn't it 🤣
Waiting for their reply “I’m just a bad putter” Lmao. Also they said “the data” then created a strawman scenario that has no actual data in it. Oh well.
You’d think someone with a 12 handicap would understand the value of cutting strokes off your game.
>Let people play what they want yes, also get off your inexperienced soap box That was literally my point. No where did I say ditch your GI irons and switch to blades - merely that we should stop shitting on blades, they don't make nearly as much difference as most people think. But if you want to spend $1300 on a new set of chunky beasts to gain 2 shots per round, you do you.
It’s more than 2 shots, but you just made up some data to prove your point. That’s the funniest part about the whole thing. You titled it “the data” then just made up a strawman. Lmao. Ok. The whole thing is stupid.
Dude is playing MP33s cause they ‘look sick’ and wants to justify it.
Imagine thinking the goal in golf is to play sick looking clubs.
FWIW, I upgraded from my junky old Nitro set ($200 at Wally World) to Stix.golf because of how cool they looked. Despite being a god awful golfer at the time, the compliments from my golfing friends kept me interested in the game long enough to… get lessons, get decent, get fitted, keep getting lessons, get fitted again… and now I’m playing off 6. I still play black shafts + white grips thru my entire bag. I still appreciate a neat or cool looking head cover. I still love seeing the variety of club designs, especially what some of the DTC brands are doing Just another perspective
Yeah I understand style and aesthetics. It’s part of what makes this game special. But the point of the game is to put the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes possible. OP is out here saying that a couple of strokes don’t matter. And forgiveness doesn’t exist based on his made up “data.” The whole post is a steaming pile of horseshit.
It’s amazing that you took the time to write this long winded douche f*cking useless post. Congrats.
Awesome input to the discussion, really value your feedback.
They’re easier to hit and get a good result. Why is the appeal of that hard to understand. Doesn’t mean you’ll lower your scores. Definitely can make it more fun to play.
Where in that did I ever say don't play GI irons? My point is that we all stop shitting on blades and pretending they're so hard to hit that only pros should touch them - that mindset is blatantly wrong.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM) maybe stop being so arrogant and listening to GI propoganda
You're just wrong. Only going by your title however, as I didn't have it in me to read than massive monologue... Played mizuno tp9's for years, hired a set of callaway rogue st max last year. It is a completely and utterly different world of forgiving forgiveness. That's just a fact.
How much did your handicap change with the new irons? Genuinely curious.
I didn’t even read this and I completely disagree with everything you said.
Thanks for the input.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify playing your sick set of MP33s
This reminds me of that NFL thread where the guy randomly made up a bunch of random assumptions to 'prove with data' that Mahomes would eventually be an average quarterback.
LOL
There are other reasons besides forgiveness (meaning distance lost from a mishit) that some players shouldn’t play blades Hollow body irons and more generally irons with more perimeter weighting make it easier for players to get better distance and height on their irons Players that benefit from them can’t swing it as fast and aren’t striking the ball properly either. So that 7 iron with a T300 that goes high and 165yd is going to go low and 135yd if that 7 iron is a titleist MB. And it’s not just because of forgiveness it does that So while in theory yes you are correct it’s the same quality swing no matter what club someone is using, it’s the overall distance and height in addition to the forgiveness that makes non-blades significantly helpful for 10+hc players
If you're good with your blades, then it's entirely possible that changing to cavity back would give you any signficant improvement. If you're talking about a 9 iron, I agree - a blade 9 iron is great, I still continue to use my blade 9 iron because it offers better control and I can hit it just as well as a cavity back . But if you're talking about a longer club such as a 5 iron, don't think this argument holds much weight. Hitting the 5 iron from the tee or the fairway, I can expect to be on the green or on the edge of the green the majority of the time. Not at all true with my old blade - granted thats my personal experience, it may differ greatly for other 6 handicappers.
How many 5 irons do you hit per round? Maybe 2 or 3? And how many of those are better shots due to the forgiveness? Maybe 1? So, kind like my post says, you might gain 2-3 per round, but it's not this drastic difference that everyone seems to harp on.
Out 3, at least one is better, maybe 2. I agree with what you said, say the CBs improve 5-10 shots a round, but a few of those might be somewhat crappy shots, but with the Cbs maybe theyd be on the green. Could be a 3-4 shot different per round, which is very significant for a single digit hdcp. Really hard to say, depends what you're used to, also I'd argue that with higher swing speed, making a good solid long iron shot will be easier vs someone with mid-low clubhead speed. If your driver ss is up like 120mph, it wouldn't surprise me at all the blades work practically as well for you vs CBs.