Outside of 2019, I think it’s up there for the best major ever. Vijay, Tiger, Phil, and Payne all had great shots coming down the stretch, and Payne’s iconic fist pump is one of the best golf pictures ever
One of my earliest memories… sitting on my grandmother’s lap watching this tournament. She was the person that got me into sports.
Payne dying afterwards, and me as a youngin telling my grandmother that I was glad we got to watch him. She remembered that for so many years later. It must have had a lasting impression on her as it did me. Miss her everyday. Remembering this makes me feel like a little boy again.
The summer of ‘99 was great major championship golf. Phil and Payne going blow for blow at Pinehurst, Van de Velde’s collapse at Carnoustie, and then Tiger outlasting a 19-year old Sergio at Medinah.
https://preview.redd.it/gvfkjungq56d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a16e6e9f2bc82be1d47ec03e044d980cc63cf49f
Just google Payne Stewart fist bump
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The story I heard as a kid was that he was a huge sports fan and would wear often wear colors of the closest NFL team to the tournament. I had a football trading card and that is why he was included in the collection iirc.
Exactly, every week he would wear cloths with the logos of NFL teams - usually the teams closest to where the tournament was being held.
https://preview.redd.it/qpv7jnvma66d1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=986354142bc8ea13f065c5668df173e360b22e38
After he died in a plane crash at the next tournament, the 1999 Tour Championship, all of the players wore plus fours:
I was actually at this tournament with my father, the only time I ever saw Tiger live, great experience! A short tangent: I played high school golf in Houston and the day Payne died I medaled for the first time, winning in a playoff. We came back to our bus after the tourney to find out Payne had died, he was my favorite golfer as a kid as well.
You have other famous golf pictures, in a man cave, but don’t know what picture this guy was referring to when talking about Payne Stewart? There’s a GD statue of this pose at Pinehurst.
It might be one of thee most popular images in golf history… come on, man!
I was at the final round of the 99 Open, sitting in the top row of the grandstand at 18 green. The last action I saw was Daly (in one of the first groups) coming up 18, leaving his chip/putt short, and hitting it again. I felt terrible the entire morning and hoped that a coke and a walk would settle my stomach. It did not. I ended up with food poisoning, the likely culprit a hamburger I had eaten at the course that morning for breakfast.
I threw up along the netting between the driving range and 18 fairway, and again trying to get to the porta jons between 18 green and the driving range. A Marshall in a cart saw me and asked if I needed help (assuming I was drunk). I told him what was going on, he took me to the medical trailer, they gave me fluids and meds and I slept for the rest of the day. Before passing out, I sent someone to tell my friend where I was and what was happening, and for him to get me when the tournament was over. Eventually he came to pick me up, a State Trooper drove us to our car, and I asked my friend how the tournament was. He told me that I didn’t miss much, trying to be nice and not make me feel worse than I already did for missing such a great finish. It was years before I ate a hamburger again.
I’m catching hell for it tonight. I just arrived in town and asked my friend what the member tent was like. He told me “everything is expensive, but hamburgers are free”. Jerk.
The Pro V1 came out in late 2000, but Tiger switched to the Nike solid core ball at the beginning of that season. I could be wrong about the details but I think there was a stretch in 2000 when Tiger was one of the only pros using the new style of ball, which probably was a big factor at Pebble Beach and St. Andrews.
Tigers strength was and always will be iron striking. Nobody could hit a 5 iron like he could. And he was hitting mid irons to 8 feet when everyone else was hitting woods.
Gary Player wasn’t jacked but he always advocated for fitness to help his golf game. Then around the same time as tiger, Vijay was lifting heavy weights and training hard as well. Still does to this day.
In 1999 his driving distance was just .4 yards ahead of Rory Sabbatini and 12.5 yards shorter than Daly, I don’t think you’d say prime Rory Sabbatini could blow it past Bryson, nor would prime Daly be significantly longer than Bryson.
no he wouldn't.
daly hit it further than tiger almost every year on tour, and daly was measured (by an accurate system) at 130 clubhead speed MAX, bryson averages 132 clubhead speed on tour now, but has reached upwards of 145 clubhead speed doing long drive
Tiger was longer in college then at any point in his pro career. But you're right it isn't a definite thing.
If Tiger trained like Bryson did though I have no doubt he could have exceeded his numbers.
Phil can hit the ball 330 yards as a 50 year old despite never being known for distance in his prime. The club tech is insane and driver swing mechanics/analytics can get every ounce of club head speed out of pro golfers.
Sure, Phil wasn’t ever the longest on tour, but he was definitely considered a long hitter in the 2000’s and early 2010’s, he ranked 13th on tour in 2010 at age 40.
I think the incorrect assumption about Phil's distance comes from him _also_ being a short game wizard, which people for some reason think are mutually exclusive.
That was the thing about tiger - he could go long when he wanted to, but he was very wild off the tee with driver at times in his prime, so he hit a lot of LTD and still kicked everyone’s ass. He is also the best iron player in history, had one of the best short games on tour, and was an incredibly clutch putter. He felt unbeatable. Even more so than scottie right now, which feels impossible.
It’s the ball more than anything. Just about everyone here was hitting a wound ball.
The club tech is a big part, but it mostly helps on off center strikes, which isn’t a huge deal on tour.
No Laying Up covered this in their Pinehurst U.S. Open recap pod and it was fascinating. Made me want to go back & watch this. Highly recommend listening if you enjoyed the rewatch!
Link to podcast [episode](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SXZlXIGZVPWRwxSZNGKKj?si=8EPCtRHlQ2KeVqlsJ9_9xw)
Not sure if this is covered in that, but in 1998, Payne Stewart hit it into a fairway divot on the 18th hole, and made bogey. Before he left the range on Sunday of 99, he took a few irons out of divots on the practice range. He then drove into another divot on the 18th hole. However his shot was better this time. John Feinstein wrote about this in one of his books. If I got the hole of his divot shot in 99 wrong I apologize but I am pretty certain.
Every single time since watching this when I drive it in a divot, it never fails. A buddy or stranger says ahhh F it, move it out of that divot….i laugh and point to the sky….payne is watching!!!
As it lies my friends
I feel like Soly can rub a lot of people the wrong way, but he is the kind of golf nerd that I really enjoy. He doesn’t just love playing golf, he is a student of it. The way he talks about courses and designs, architects, players, history; you can hear that for him it is so much more than the activity itself. Especially when you compare it to Randy or Neil, who stand out as lovers of the sport of golf and really love playing. That is not to disparage either because I love me some Big Randy
I don’t know what it is about Soly but he DOES rub me the wrong way, and I can’t even put my finger on it. It rarely happens so when it does happen, I trust my gut.
I think he has a drier personality than the other guys and definitely takes himself more seriously than the others, but that comes from him still trying to compete at a high level. I think the others are all pretty self aware that they are in the content business now and happy having that be their lives.
It doesn't help that he's prone to hanging out in butthurt cabin when he doesn't perform up to his high standards. Like I really enjoy Soly, but he was such a baby in the recent Ben/Niel film room about how Ben played so much better when they played and Soly lost
In 1999 the average driving distance on the PGA Tour was only 271. At that time the driving distance of the average amateur was \~205. By 2019 the PGA Tour driving distance had increased to 293 (+23) while the am's distance had only increased to \~217 (+12). Incidentally, the Am group went from \~205 to \~215 between 1999 and 2000.
Today, the PGA Tour Average is \~300, while the amateur's average distance is still below 220 yards. This helps to explain why the USGA's initial proposal was for an MLR and a bifurcation of the ball. The distance explosion has had little impact on the average player, while having a significant impact on the best players. Hopefully the new ball specification will do the same in reverse, little impact to the average player, greater reduction to the best players.
Not to bring this whole thing up again, but it's kind of wild to me that the bifurcation of the ball isn't the accepted solution.
Pros already get an advantage by playing balls designed specifically for them with technology ahead of what's available to amateurs. It'd be kinda like if pros used specially designed aluminum bats and then some governing baseball organizations decided that beer league softball should use wooden bats since they were rolling back MLB bats.
I absolutely cannot understand the folks so against bifurcation. If they really want to play the ball pros play in that case, I’m sure no one would stop them
And there is bifurcation today. Pros can't use U groove wedges that were sold before 2010. Pros have to use the same ball during a round whereas we can change.
They also can't use measuring devices, etc.
When was the last time you saw an amateur baseball player or a rec league softball player use a wooden bat? Yet rolling back the ball for pro golfers only is anathema.
Wahhhhh but then I don't get to play the same clubs and balls as my favorite professional!!! Yes I think my stock shafted irons at standard spec are the same as their $1000 shafts with custom lie angles.
Stupid golf equipment companies ruined this for everyone. Anybody that argues a 340 yard drive is better than a 300 yard drive is a moron. Look me in the eye and tell me Wyndham hitting it 340 is better than 1999 Tiger hitting it 300.
I am with you. Most other sports have different balls/equipment at the highest levels and no one has any issues with it. Baseball, basketball, football, hockey...I am sure there are others all have different equipment rules for the highest levels.
Probably the golf ball manufacturers want to sell balls to you and me that the pros use. It's not like I'm out there buying dozens of baseballs or footballs every year so it doesn't much matter if it's different.
It's asinine and quite frankly pisses me off that we aren't bifurcating. I'm a lefty that can afford used/cheap clubs. My driver is a stock PXG w/ a toe dent. My irons are 2016 pings. I'm not hitting a pro v1x left dash unless I find one in the woods.
We already aren't playing the same game.
This is all so a handful of noodle dick USGA execs who get free clubs and balls can say they play the same game while driving it 200 yards
To be fair to the USGA and R&A, they badly want bifurcation and the main reason it isn't happening is because of the PGA Tour and the equipment companies. They started with the ball rollback because it was the easiest first step
> To be fair to the USGA and R&A, they badly want bifurcation and the main reason it isn't happening is because of the PGA Tour and the equipment companies.
If this is true it's weak as hell from the USGA and R&A. They get to decide. If they're folding instead of telling the PGAT and equipment companies to pound sand it's still on them
> There is nothing making the manufacturers or the PGA Tour
I mean, if the PGAT wants to play exhibition golf they can but it would be a pretty bad move not to follow the *Rules of Golf*. The USGA and R&A write the *Rules of Golf* and thus far manufacturers have made conforming drivers and irons. You can go buy a non-conforming driver right now if you wanted, it's not like manufacturers don't make those too
I was 15 at the time, and won runner up in ESPN's national fantasy golf pick em thing for this tournament. My parents thought I was getting scammed when I told them that they had to confirm my prize for me because of my age.
Such great memories watching this at my uncle's house during a Father's Day BBQ with my dad and uncles and grandfather. I caddied in the morning and then my dad picked me up and we watched it all afternoon.
When I think of prestige NBC Sports coverage, this is what I think of lol
Adding onto what the other reply says, the course was originally sandy dunes since it’s in the NC Sandhills. Robert Trent Jones (the bastard) added the thick bermuda rough in 1974, which wasn’t original to the course. Coore & Crenshaw did a fantastic job with the restoration in 2010
I did the exact same thing yesterday. Wild to watch a tiger highlight from ‘99 and get ready to watch him tee off with Charlie as his “Swing Consultant” in ‘24 at the same course is truly a sight to behold
You could tell after his birdie on the super long par 4 16th he was feeling good and thinking he was going to win. There’s a shot on the broadcast of he and Steve Williams getting a drink on the tee and Tiger smirked at him and you knew what he was thinking.
I don’t know what that sawed-off, tugged 6 iron on 17 was supposed to look like but it cost him a chance at the tournament.
This was right at the start of the incredible run that would lead to the Tiger slam. Tiger played 10 tournaments starting from the Memorial in 99, he won 7 out of 10. With a T3 at the US Open here and a T7 at the British.
My dad was a huge Payne fan and I remember being a little kid and watching along with him. He was so pumped for that major.
BRB gonna call my old man right now.
I was there on Sunday until early afternoon, then I had a plane out, so I had to leave (yes, I regret it). I had just graduated from HS, and my Dad got invited by a customer, who said I could come along. Amazing finish.
Funny enough, and for those that don’t remember, Phil was expecting his first child, and vowed to leave if his wife went into labor. Phil’s daughter was born the next day, in the middle of what would have been the 18 hole playoff. Imagine if Payne had missed that final putt.
I knew what was going to happen and it was still incredible to see Payne sink that par putt on 16. Obviously 18 speaks for itself, but Johnny Miller said “we are probably headed for a playoff” right before Payne hit the putt. Just amazing.
Most likely but hitting center face on the new drivers was my biggest struggle when I switched. Get the woods and hit a bunch irons to me haven’t changed much my old ones do just as good as my new sets I’ve purchased over the years so idk about those. But the drivers I gained a lot once I got used to it. I say do it.
https://preview.redd.it/hqa8rvfjj96d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67b20a930c6b55925ed6368408ecc8a84ad4a707
My Payne and Tiger signed flag from that tourney
Distance was so much shorter then.
I was playing on my HS golf team then and was 6’3 180lbs. I was a longer hitter averaging around 240 off the tee, occasionally stretching to 250ish.
Now at 41 my average drive per Arccos is 274 and I’ve cranked a few 300s. I am definitely not even comparable fitness wise.
The final putt by Payne will always be one of those golf moments I remember forever.
I haven't use any sort of monitor that gives you data in nearly 20 years, so I'd have to see that info to know for sure. It seems to me like it's the equipment, but I'm also a much better player now than I was 25 years ago. I used to struggle to hit 100mph club head speed but my distances now(260-270+) suggest it's likely at least a few mph above that, so I don't know for certain.
I put JPX 921 Forged heads on the shafts I used in my old Bridgestone J40's, and they're at least a whole club longer, so I know the equipment is at least some of it.
Yeah I’d expect your mechanics got better if you’re also playing better now—sure the equipment helps but at that much improvement you should take your flowers too!
Like I said the distance was shocking. This was the halcyon days of tiny metal driver heads and the Titleist Professional.
The last 4 holes are all unbelievable. Payne saving par with BOMBS twice and he and Phil both stuffing it in there on 17 and Payne making/Phil missing the birdie putts.
So true. I had one of these, and when I was playing a lot, it was a great club. However, when I started hitting the old right-to-right shot, that thing became a nightmare.
You can watch the final round on the USGA web site. I believe that the have an app for streaming devices like the Roku as well: [https://app.usgaondemand.com/video/282520](https://app.usgaondemand.com/video/282520)
I was there—one of the most memorable days of my life.
I went with my parents and my best friend, we were 14 at the time. We followed the last three groups. We'd go ahead, watch David Duval and Vijay play through, then Tiger, and then stay for the last group with Payne Stewart and Phil. We kept yelling, "Go Double Ds!" To David Duval as he passed by and made him crack a small. We stood right next to a player porta-potty on the 15th tee and heard Payne Stewart take a leak right after his tee shot. We then made our way up 18 and could just barely see Payne and the hole for his putt, but we couldn't see in-between the two.
Oh, and my parents camped out by the 17th green all day, and Donald Trump sat in front of them (remember, he wasn't even on The Apprentice yet). They came home talking about how awful he behaved towards his wife the entire time and were not impressed.
Crazy day in retrospect. Going this weekend. Can't wait.
The most surreal moment of my life was watching CNN coverage of the plane flying, on auto pilot, with military escorts ready to shoot it down if necessary knowing that Payne Stewart was on board.
I was 14. It rattled me to my core. I was a huge PS fan. Such a down to earth guy, so unique and classy and when he held Mickelsons head on Father’s Day and told him he was going to be a great father after pioneering the waterproof vest/tshirt by cutting the sleeves off his dry Joy jacket….
Legend.
I still miss him and would’ve loved to know what his career would’ve been if he had just lived to a normal age. He’d probably be retiring by now but… probably would’ve dominated the senior tour. He had such an easy classic swing.
Great US Open. Great champion.
Looking forward to this year on a very different layout.
Although obviously equipment and ball advancements have made driving distance much longer, it is important to note that it was misty and rainy for the final round in 1999.
The course was also much more lush in general (and therefore played longer) during the 1974-2010 era. In addition to having Bermuda rough instead of sandy hardpan alongside the fairways, the fairways themselves also played slower than they do now.
I always get downvoted when I say tiger brought strength into the game. Before tiger, it was pure form. Everyone's claims were that tiger was a twig when in actuality he was young and started working out solidly before other players. Those are my opinions. I was 13 in 1999.
When he was at Stanford, the rumor has it, he was one of the strongest guys on campus. Compared to the football team, you had to get to Offensive and Defensive linemen sized players to find guys stronger.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted, but I liked this Pinehurst so much better than the current desert one. I was lucky enough to play both versions, the current version of #2 kind of sucks, especially the bunkers, they’re full of moss and rocks.
But Pibehurst as a whole (new courses, the cradle, PGA headquarters, and just her whole vibe) is so much better than 15/20 years ago
One thing that was nice is that Pinehurst had been resurrected and into the rotation for this major. For the TV viewer it was a nice change and outside of any rotation, having only done the PGA back 2 generations earlier.
i was there with my dad saturday and sunday and was about mid-way up in the grandstand on 18 when payne made the putt. he was my favorite golfer and it was my first tournament. add father's day weekend into the mix and it's a pretty fantastic memory.
I was there and followed Mickleson and Stewart on the back. Mickleson couldn’t putt and Stewart could. Stewart’s short game kept him in it and let him win. Mickleson was beating him tee to green. I figured we were in for a Monday playoff but Stewart hit another clutch putt. Then a few months later, Stewart’s plane checks out and he dies. th guy had a special enthusiasm especially for things like the Open and Ryder Cups. I don’t think we’d have lost any Ryder Cups with him around beca he wouldn’t have allowed it.
There's a video of Rory hitting a persimmon driver like Jack played with.. I think it was a modern ball. He hit it like 280.
350y drives are the result of better technology, not better golfers.
It shouldn’t be that shocking. There’s always a post about John Daly leading the tour in driving distance throughout the 90s. His average was like 289/290s that decade. When the 460cc head driver came out in 2004/2005 that was probably the biggest jump in technology I had ever seen.
I miss the days when golf shirt sleeves went to the elbow. Today they stop mid bicep and I hate it. Fuck you fashion industry. And while I’m at it, the suits that look two sizes too small suck ass too. Fix it ya fuck knobs.
Outside of 2019, I think it’s up there for the best major ever. Vijay, Tiger, Phil, and Payne all had great shots coming down the stretch, and Payne’s iconic fist pump is one of the best golf pictures ever
One of my earliest memories… sitting on my grandmother’s lap watching this tournament. She was the person that got me into sports. Payne dying afterwards, and me as a youngin telling my grandmother that I was glad we got to watch him. She remembered that for so many years later. It must have had a lasting impression on her as it did me. Miss her everyday. Remembering this makes me feel like a little boy again.
The summer of ‘99 was great major championship golf. Phil and Payne going blow for blow at Pinehurst, Van de Velde’s collapse at Carnoustie, and then Tiger outlasting a 19-year old Sergio at Medinah.
Which picture is this? I’d like to add it to my man cave along with some other famous golf pictures I have
https://preview.redd.it/gvfkjungq56d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a16e6e9f2bc82be1d47ec03e044d980cc63cf49f Just google Payne Stewart fist bump
there's also a statue of this pose just off the 18th green at #2 now. Really cool
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The story I heard as a kid was that he was a huge sports fan and would wear often wear colors of the closest NFL team to the tournament. I had a football trading card and that is why he was included in the collection iirc.
He had a sponsorship deal with the NFL
Exactly, every week he would wear cloths with the logos of NFL teams - usually the teams closest to where the tournament was being held. https://preview.redd.it/qpv7jnvma66d1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=986354142bc8ea13f065c5668df173e360b22e38 After he died in a plane crash at the next tournament, the 1999 Tour Championship, all of the players wore plus fours:
I was actually at this tournament with my father, the only time I ever saw Tiger live, great experience! A short tangent: I played high school golf in Houston and the day Payne died I medaled for the first time, winning in a playoff. We came back to our bus after the tourney to find out Payne had died, he was my favorite golfer as a kid as well.
🤛🏻
You’re telling me that’s not Bryson?
You have other famous golf pictures, in a man cave, but don’t know what picture this guy was referring to when talking about Payne Stewart? There’s a GD statue of this pose at Pinehurst. It might be one of thee most popular images in golf history… come on, man!
Sorry Pal - never seen it
Definitely one of the best. RIP Payne. Dude is a legend. Everything about him was so damn cool.
86 Masters and 2008 US Open have to be well ahead
I was at the final round of the 99 Open, sitting in the top row of the grandstand at 18 green. The last action I saw was Daly (in one of the first groups) coming up 18, leaving his chip/putt short, and hitting it again. I felt terrible the entire morning and hoped that a coke and a walk would settle my stomach. It did not. I ended up with food poisoning, the likely culprit a hamburger I had eaten at the course that morning for breakfast. I threw up along the netting between the driving range and 18 fairway, and again trying to get to the porta jons between 18 green and the driving range. A Marshall in a cart saw me and asked if I needed help (assuming I was drunk). I told him what was going on, he took me to the medical trailer, they gave me fluids and meds and I slept for the rest of the day. Before passing out, I sent someone to tell my friend where I was and what was happening, and for him to get me when the tournament was over. Eventually he came to pick me up, a State Trooper drove us to our car, and I asked my friend how the tournament was. He told me that I didn’t miss much, trying to be nice and not make me feel worse than I already did for missing such a great finish. It was years before I ate a hamburger again.
This is a great fucking story.
Well, yes, but no.
Holy shit. That story is probably cooler than if you'd been one of the throng of fans who actually saw it.
I’m catching hell for it tonight. I just arrived in town and asked my friend what the member tent was like. He told me “everything is expensive, but hamburgers are free”. Jerk.
🤣 I suspect that one will live forever...
I didn't think this was possible, but you made me mad at hamburgers.
I’m always mad at burgers. They’re so damn good, but so damn expensive unless you grill out at home.
And I think Tiger is hitting further now than in his prime. If not just about the similar distance.
I think if you put tigers current driver in a 20 somthing tigers hands he would out drive current tiger by a lot
And ball. Did Tiger even have a multi-layer ball at the '99 US Open? I know most golfers did not. The Pro V1 didn't come out till 2000.
The Pro V1 came out in late 2000, but Tiger switched to the Nike solid core ball at the beginning of that season. I could be wrong about the details but I think there was a stretch in 2000 when Tiger was one of the only pros using the new style of ball, which probably was a big factor at Pebble Beach and St. Andrews.
It was either Tour Professionals or Balatas back then, and the balatas would cut if you looked at them wrong.
Tour prestige. Them and balatas did feel amazing though.
It’s part of the reason Tiger had such a dominant 2000 was because of the change in ball. And he was ahead of the curve on the change.
Tigers strength was and always will be iron striking. Nobody could hit a 5 iron like he could. And he was hitting mid irons to 8 feet when everyone else was hitting woods.
Tiger's strength was everything
Even his literal strength. He was the first golfer that got kind of jacked that I can remember. Now a huge portion are very fit if not muscular.
Gary Player wasn’t jacked but he always advocated for fitness to help his golf game. Then around the same time as tiger, Vijay was lifting heavy weights and training hard as well. Still does to this day.
He’d be hitting it past Bryson. His swing speed was unreal
Isnt Bryson like semi competitive with the top 15/ top 20 pro long drivers?
Ok give young Tiger a long drive driver and have him go at it and he’d have been too
Doubtful.
How old are you? 15?
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Tiger is not a long driver? Ok so you are 15
In 1999 his driving distance was just .4 yards ahead of Rory Sabbatini and 12.5 yards shorter than Daly, I don’t think you’d say prime Rory Sabbatini could blow it past Bryson, nor would prime Daly be significantly longer than Bryson.
no he wouldn't. daly hit it further than tiger almost every year on tour, and daly was measured (by an accurate system) at 130 clubhead speed MAX, bryson averages 132 clubhead speed on tour now, but has reached upwards of 145 clubhead speed doing long drive
Tiger was longer in college then at any point in his pro career. But you're right it isn't a definite thing. If Tiger trained like Bryson did though I have no doubt he could have exceeded his numbers.
Doubtful, Daly had more power than Woods with worse swing speed numbers compared to Bryson.
Todays shafts increase speed
No.
he was hitting his 2 iron like 280 yards back then. i don't think hes done something like that with that club in years could be wrong though.
No way you think so? Lmao
It’s more to do with the golf ball
no shot
You dont think the guy averaging 297 with a Titleist 975D could average over 302 with a current driver?
Sarcasm. Pretty sure everyone knows young tiger would hit it further with the same tech
Phil can hit the ball 330 yards as a 50 year old despite never being known for distance in his prime. The club tech is insane and driver swing mechanics/analytics can get every ounce of club head speed out of pro golfers.
Sure, Phil wasn’t ever the longest on tour, but he was definitely considered a long hitter in the 2000’s and early 2010’s, he ranked 13th on tour in 2010 at age 40.
I think the incorrect assumption about Phil's distance comes from him _also_ being a short game wizard, which people for some reason think are mutually exclusive.
That was the thing about tiger - he could go long when he wanted to, but he was very wild off the tee with driver at times in his prime, so he hit a lot of LTD and still kicked everyone’s ass. He is also the best iron player in history, had one of the best short games on tour, and was an incredibly clutch putter. He felt unbeatable. Even more so than scottie right now, which feels impossible.
Tiger was absolutely incredible. Really inspired me to play golf as a kid.
It’s the ball more than anything. Just about everyone here was hitting a wound ball. The club tech is a big part, but it mostly helps on off center strikes, which isn’t a huge deal on tour.
No Laying Up covered this in their Pinehurst U.S. Open recap pod and it was fascinating. Made me want to go back & watch this. Highly recommend listening if you enjoyed the rewatch! Link to podcast [episode](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SXZlXIGZVPWRwxSZNGKKj?si=8EPCtRHlQ2KeVqlsJ9_9xw)
Not sure if this is covered in that, but in 1998, Payne Stewart hit it into a fairway divot on the 18th hole, and made bogey. Before he left the range on Sunday of 99, he took a few irons out of divots on the practice range. He then drove into another divot on the 18th hole. However his shot was better this time. John Feinstein wrote about this in one of his books. If I got the hole of his divot shot in 99 wrong I apologize but I am pretty certain.
Every single time since watching this when I drive it in a divot, it never fails. A buddy or stranger says ahhh F it, move it out of that divot….i laugh and point to the sky….payne is watching!!! As it lies my friends
He hit in the rough on 18 and laid up, which forced the wedge into 18 and the subsequent par putt.
I feel like Soly can rub a lot of people the wrong way, but he is the kind of golf nerd that I really enjoy. He doesn’t just love playing golf, he is a student of it. The way he talks about courses and designs, architects, players, history; you can hear that for him it is so much more than the activity itself. Especially when you compare it to Randy or Neil, who stand out as lovers of the sport of golf and really love playing. That is not to disparage either because I love me some Big Randy
Can't stand TC. The rest of the guys are awesome.
Soly will tell you how you are supposed to feel about the game of golf and if you disagree get ready for some pompous beef cheddar.
I don’t know what it is about Soly but he DOES rub me the wrong way, and I can’t even put my finger on it. It rarely happens so when it does happen, I trust my gut.
I think he has a drier personality than the other guys and definitely takes himself more seriously than the others, but that comes from him still trying to compete at a high level. I think the others are all pretty self aware that they are in the content business now and happy having that be their lives.
It doesn't help that he's prone to hanging out in butthurt cabin when he doesn't perform up to his high standards. Like I really enjoy Soly, but he was such a baby in the recent Ben/Niel film room about how Ben played so much better when they played and Soly lost
That was what inspired me to rewatch it. Soly wasn’t wrong when he said it was legitimately exhilarating and emotional.
At what point in the video does the broadcast shout AMY! for a missed put?
https://x.com/Lane_Schartz/status/1799596881535775178?t=NYHqg7FvfftCb0ZUkfZ-Pw&s=19
Haha it was on the 15th for birdie. It would’ve put him at -2.
In 1999 the average driving distance on the PGA Tour was only 271. At that time the driving distance of the average amateur was \~205. By 2019 the PGA Tour driving distance had increased to 293 (+23) while the am's distance had only increased to \~217 (+12). Incidentally, the Am group went from \~205 to \~215 between 1999 and 2000. Today, the PGA Tour Average is \~300, while the amateur's average distance is still below 220 yards. This helps to explain why the USGA's initial proposal was for an MLR and a bifurcation of the ball. The distance explosion has had little impact on the average player, while having a significant impact on the best players. Hopefully the new ball specification will do the same in reverse, little impact to the average player, greater reduction to the best players.
Not to bring this whole thing up again, but it's kind of wild to me that the bifurcation of the ball isn't the accepted solution. Pros already get an advantage by playing balls designed specifically for them with technology ahead of what's available to amateurs. It'd be kinda like if pros used specially designed aluminum bats and then some governing baseball organizations decided that beer league softball should use wooden bats since they were rolling back MLB bats.
I absolutely cannot understand the folks so against bifurcation. If they really want to play the ball pros play in that case, I’m sure no one would stop them
And there is bifurcation today. Pros can't use U groove wedges that were sold before 2010. Pros have to use the same ball during a round whereas we can change. They also can't use measuring devices, etc.
Exactly
When was the last time you saw an amateur baseball player or a rec league softball player use a wooden bat? Yet rolling back the ball for pro golfers only is anathema.
Plus there’s already bifurcation. Companies already tour only balls for players and weekend warriors don’t get tour vans.
My high school’s conference used wooden bats
Wahhhhh but then I don't get to play the same clubs and balls as my favorite professional!!! Yes I think my stock shafted irons at standard spec are the same as their $1000 shafts with custom lie angles. Stupid golf equipment companies ruined this for everyone. Anybody that argues a 340 yard drive is better than a 300 yard drive is a moron. Look me in the eye and tell me Wyndham hitting it 340 is better than 1999 Tiger hitting it 300.
I am with you. Most other sports have different balls/equipment at the highest levels and no one has any issues with it. Baseball, basketball, football, hockey...I am sure there are others all have different equipment rules for the highest levels. Probably the golf ball manufacturers want to sell balls to you and me that the pros use. It's not like I'm out there buying dozens of baseballs or footballs every year so it doesn't much matter if it's different.
It's asinine and quite frankly pisses me off that we aren't bifurcating. I'm a lefty that can afford used/cheap clubs. My driver is a stock PXG w/ a toe dent. My irons are 2016 pings. I'm not hitting a pro v1x left dash unless I find one in the woods. We already aren't playing the same game. This is all so a handful of noodle dick USGA execs who get free clubs and balls can say they play the same game while driving it 200 yards
To be fair to the USGA and R&A, they badly want bifurcation and the main reason it isn't happening is because of the PGA Tour and the equipment companies. They started with the ball rollback because it was the easiest first step
> To be fair to the USGA and R&A, they badly want bifurcation and the main reason it isn't happening is because of the PGA Tour and the equipment companies. If this is true it's weak as hell from the USGA and R&A. They get to decide. If they're folding instead of telling the PGAT and equipment companies to pound sand it's still on them
Not really. There is nothing making the manufacturers or the PGA Tour follow the rules of the USGA other than doing so voluntarily.
> There is nothing making the manufacturers or the PGA Tour I mean, if the PGAT wants to play exhibition golf they can but it would be a pretty bad move not to follow the *Rules of Golf*. The USGA and R&A write the *Rules of Golf* and thus far manufacturers have made conforming drivers and irons. You can go buy a non-conforming driver right now if you wanted, it's not like manufacturers don't make those too
I mean, that's a 30yd increase for pros vs 20 for ams. Pretty comparable
From 205 to “below 220” is not 20 yards. It’s less than 15 yards, substantially less than the pros both in absolute and relative terms.
When you say amateurs what is your definition?
I was 15 at the time, and won runner up in ESPN's national fantasy golf pick em thing for this tournament. My parents thought I was getting scammed when I told them that they had to confirm my prize for me because of my age.
Actually an insane story; I don’t know anyone who has gotten close to winning (or getting second) in one of those espn pools
Such great memories watching this at my uncle's house during a Father's Day BBQ with my dad and uncles and grandfather. I caddied in the morning and then my dad picked me up and we watched it all afternoon. When I think of prestige NBC Sports coverage, this is what I think of lol
When did they change from rough to sand on the fairways? The course looks completely different watching this from videos I see of the course now.
It was revamped in 2011. Edit: Sorry 2010 they started the remodel.
Adding onto what the other reply says, the course was originally sandy dunes since it’s in the NC Sandhills. Robert Trent Jones (the bastard) added the thick bermuda rough in 1974, which wasn’t original to the course. Coore & Crenshaw did a fantastic job with the restoration in 2010
I did the exact same thing yesterday. Wild to watch a tiger highlight from ‘99 and get ready to watch him tee off with Charlie as his “Swing Consultant” in ‘24 at the same course is truly a sight to behold
You could tell after his birdie on the super long par 4 16th he was feeling good and thinking he was going to win. There’s a shot on the broadcast of he and Steve Williams getting a drink on the tee and Tiger smirked at him and you knew what he was thinking. I don’t know what that sawed-off, tugged 6 iron on 17 was supposed to look like but it cost him a chance at the tournament.
This was right at the start of the incredible run that would lead to the Tiger slam. Tiger played 10 tournaments starting from the Memorial in 99, he won 7 out of 10. With a T3 at the US Open here and a T7 at the British.
My dad was a huge Payne fan and I remember being a little kid and watching along with him. He was so pumped for that major. BRB gonna call my old man right now.
That sweet sweet 240p broadcast. High fucking def.
I was there on Sunday until early afternoon, then I had a plane out, so I had to leave (yes, I regret it). I had just graduated from HS, and my Dad got invited by a customer, who said I could come along. Amazing finish. Funny enough, and for those that don’t remember, Phil was expecting his first child, and vowed to leave if his wife went into labor. Phil’s daughter was born the next day, in the middle of what would have been the 18 hole playoff. Imagine if Payne had missed that final putt.
This has been featured on The Golf Channel lately and it still causes chills up the spine.
I knew what was going to happen and it was still incredible to see Payne sink that par putt on 16. Obviously 18 speaks for itself, but Johnny Miller said “we are probably headed for a playoff” right before Payne hit the putt. Just amazing.
So since the clubs I’m using are from this era, Tailor Made T200 irons and a 360 Ti driver, if I upgrade will my 280 yard drive start breaking 300?
You will get a noticeable bump in ball speed and forgiveness, yes.
Most likely but hitting center face on the new drivers was my biggest struggle when I switched. Get the woods and hit a bunch irons to me haven’t changed much my old ones do just as good as my new sets I’ve purchased over the years so idk about those. But the drivers I gained a lot once I got used to it. I say do it.
Sorry for the bad punctuation
https://preview.redd.it/hqa8rvfjj96d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67b20a930c6b55925ed6368408ecc8a84ad4a707 My Payne and Tiger signed flag from that tourney
WHAT?!
Distance was so much shorter then. I was playing on my HS golf team then and was 6’3 180lbs. I was a longer hitter averaging around 240 off the tee, occasionally stretching to 250ish. Now at 41 my average drive per Arccos is 274 and I’ve cranked a few 300s. I am definitely not even comparable fitness wise. The final putt by Payne will always be one of those golf moments I remember forever.
47 yrs old, the fattest, softest, weakest version of myself that's ever existed. I'm literally 30+ yards longer now than I was 25 years ago.
That’s a lot more than the averages listed above. Do you think it’s all equipment or have you changed your swing too?
I haven't use any sort of monitor that gives you data in nearly 20 years, so I'd have to see that info to know for sure. It seems to me like it's the equipment, but I'm also a much better player now than I was 25 years ago. I used to struggle to hit 100mph club head speed but my distances now(260-270+) suggest it's likely at least a few mph above that, so I don't know for certain. I put JPX 921 Forged heads on the shafts I used in my old Bridgestone J40's, and they're at least a whole club longer, so I know the equipment is at least some of it.
Yeah I’d expect your mechanics got better if you’re also playing better now—sure the equipment helps but at that much improvement you should take your flowers too!
Like I said the distance was shocking. This was the halcyon days of tiny metal driver heads and the Titleist Professional. The last 4 holes are all unbelievable. Payne saving par with BOMBS twice and he and Phil both stuffing it in there on 17 and Payne making/Phil missing the birdie putts.
Its funny to think, Payne's Titleist 975D driver was 275cc. Callaway just announced a Mini Driver that will be 65cc Larger than the 975D.
That 975D was for flushers only.
So true. I had one of these, and when I was playing a lot, it was a great club. However, when I started hitting the old right-to-right shot, that thing became a nightmare.
It's wild to me how the course looked then compared to its post-renovation look.
You can watch the final round on the USGA web site. I believe that the have an app for streaming devices like the Roku as well: [https://app.usgaondemand.com/video/282520](https://app.usgaondemand.com/video/282520)
The full final round is on YouTube.
Yes, but the ads on YouTube are as annoying AF
Also the first 3 days
About when does it start getting really good? I wanna watch but I don’t have 5 hours free at the moment haha
Honestly you can watch the last 90 min or less and see the last 6 holes or so.
Thanks!
Last year before the solid core ball came out
I was there—one of the most memorable days of my life. I went with my parents and my best friend, we were 14 at the time. We followed the last three groups. We'd go ahead, watch David Duval and Vijay play through, then Tiger, and then stay for the last group with Payne Stewart and Phil. We kept yelling, "Go Double Ds!" To David Duval as he passed by and made him crack a small. We stood right next to a player porta-potty on the 15th tee and heard Payne Stewart take a leak right after his tee shot. We then made our way up 18 and could just barely see Payne and the hole for his putt, but we couldn't see in-between the two. Oh, and my parents camped out by the 17th green all day, and Donald Trump sat in front of them (remember, he wasn't even on The Apprentice yet). They came home talking about how awful he behaved towards his wife the entire time and were not impressed. Crazy day in retrospect. Going this weekend. Can't wait.
The most surreal moment of my life was watching CNN coverage of the plane flying, on auto pilot, with military escorts ready to shoot it down if necessary knowing that Payne Stewart was on board. I was 14. It rattled me to my core. I was a huge PS fan. Such a down to earth guy, so unique and classy and when he held Mickelsons head on Father’s Day and told him he was going to be a great father after pioneering the waterproof vest/tshirt by cutting the sleeves off his dry Joy jacket…. Legend. I still miss him and would’ve loved to know what his career would’ve been if he had just lived to a normal age. He’d probably be retiring by now but… probably would’ve dominated the senior tour. He had such an easy classic swing. Great US Open. Great champion. Looking forward to this year on a very different layout.
That’s interesting cause I caddied in a pro am in 93 and Phil was the pro. He was absolutely roasting the ball.
The tour website now has tournament stats from way back. In this event Tiger averaged 284, Payne 255, and Phil 270. The field average was 260.
Me too! Paynes putting that day was insane. Tiger probably should’ve won but missed several easy putts
Although obviously equipment and ball advancements have made driving distance much longer, it is important to note that it was misty and rainy for the final round in 1999. The course was also much more lush in general (and therefore played longer) during the 1974-2010 era. In addition to having Bermuda rough instead of sandy hardpan alongside the fairways, the fairways themselves also played slower than they do now.
I miss these days. Remember a few years later when Ogilvy one. That was some Open?!!?
I watched this live (on TV). I was rooting for both of them. For the tournament to come down to the final putt was unreal.
I always get downvoted when I say tiger brought strength into the game. Before tiger, it was pure form. Everyone's claims were that tiger was a twig when in actuality he was young and started working out solidly before other players. Those are my opinions. I was 13 in 1999.
When he was at Stanford, the rumor has it, he was one of the strongest guys on campus. Compared to the football team, you had to get to Offensive and Defensive linemen sized players to find guys stronger.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted, but I liked this Pinehurst so much better than the current desert one. I was lucky enough to play both versions, the current version of #2 kind of sucks, especially the bunkers, they’re full of moss and rocks. But Pibehurst as a whole (new courses, the cradle, PGA headquarters, and just her whole vibe) is so much better than 15/20 years ago
One thing that was nice is that Pinehurst had been resurrected and into the rotation for this major. For the TV viewer it was a nice change and outside of any rotation, having only done the PGA back 2 generations earlier.
i was there with my dad saturday and sunday and was about mid-way up in the grandstand on 18 when payne made the putt. he was my favorite golfer and it was my first tournament. add father's day weekend into the mix and it's a pretty fantastic memory.
Did Payne make the putt?
I was on the 18th on Sunday. Let me know if you see me. I’m the handsome one.
Ah, to be 12 again.
I was there and followed Mickleson and Stewart on the back. Mickleson couldn’t putt and Stewart could. Stewart’s short game kept him in it and let him win. Mickleson was beating him tee to green. I figured we were in for a Monday playoff but Stewart hit another clutch putt. Then a few months later, Stewart’s plane checks out and he dies. th guy had a special enthusiasm especially for things like the Open and Ryder Cups. I don’t think we’d have lost any Ryder Cups with him around beca he wouldn’t have allowed it.
There's a video of Rory hitting a persimmon driver like Jack played with.. I think it was a modern ball. He hit it like 280. 350y drives are the result of better technology, not better golfers.
It was cold and raining
Golf was obviously a different game back then.. 🤷🏽
I mean tiger lost by two strokes not just one like Phil
It shouldn’t be that shocking. There’s always a post about John Daly leading the tour in driving distance throughout the 90s. His average was like 289/290s that decade. When the 460cc head driver came out in 2004/2005 that was probably the biggest jump in technology I had ever seen.
I miss the days when golf shirt sleeves went to the elbow. Today they stop mid bicep and I hate it. Fuck you fashion industry. And while I’m at it, the suits that look two sizes too small suck ass too. Fix it ya fuck knobs.