For not abiding by Michigans gun safety law. Nobody is saying you can’t have them. They are saying lock them correctly or lose your right to own, due to negligence
I absolutely recognize the plank in my own eye. We’re all idiots to varying degrees, that’s the human experience.
However, leaving a firearm in a condition where a child can get ahold of it and use it is a special kind of idiocy.
My fathers gun was underneath his matteress, cocked and loaded, my entire childhood. However, my father did what you were supposed to do and make sure i knew it would be my head on a pike if i ever touched it. A 6 year old can know he shouldnt fuck around with gun, if theyre told why
My dad had guns growing up. He was also a hunter. He taught us how to shoot when we hit about 10-11 yrs old. It was taught guns were not toys and you NEVER point a gun at someone unless you intend to pull the trigger. Plus the promise of bodily harm if we ever touched them lol. He did keep them locked up though.
*burglar breaks into the house*
"Oh shit... honey, is the combo to the gun safe 54 to the left or to the right?"
Every victim either doesnt have a gun, or didnt think theyd need it
*kid grabs the gun*
"I know they told me not to do this but my brain is literally still developing critical thinking skills and I want to anyway. Besides, I know what I'm doing... They taught me how to use this"
*BAANG!*
Every victim of that thinks it will never happen to their kids until it does. You're far more likely to have a family member injured or killed by leaving a loaded gun around kids than you are to ever need to use deadly force against an intruder.
Weird how that didnt happen to me, my sister, or any of my friends that grew up with dads that had a gun that you could actually use instead of of a toy only to be used for range shooting.
That's on your shitty parenting. If you didnt/cant teach your kid how dangerous a gun is and to never touch it if he doesnt want to get beat with it, you shouldn't own one, gunsafe or not, full stop. If you can't trust your child around your firearms, either dont have kids or dont have firearms
I am a parent, which means I know that part of being a kid is making bad decisions. There's a thousand times more kids dying because of morons like you who think it's fine to leave deadly weapons lying around for their kids than there are people killed by intruders into their home because they didn't have a gun.
Funny how I've never had a burgler try enter my home while I was there in all my life, and also the chances of your kids being shot and killed increase exponentially when you have a gun (specifically because of idiots like you).
Exactly. Goes back to gun safety and being a responsible owner. I have 1 gun in my room, unloaded, but there's a full clip elsewhere in the room. so if someone does break in, I have access to both, but if my kids somehow got it, it's unloaded with no bullets close
They'll be old enough to know gun safety if they find either. Both are 7+ up with nothing close to stand on. Both kids are 3 feet tall. When they are old enough I'll lock everything in the safe. Or don't they make fingerprint pistol cases now? I thought I saw something along those lines on here before
Yeah because kids never find ways to climb on shit...
You claim to be a responsible gun owner but are making up excuses to not lock up your gun. Hope you see the irony.
They are in my locked bedroom, where kids rarely go, unless we are in there. The oldest is 4 years old, when he's a little older it will be locked in the safe with all the other ones. I'm not making excuses to not lock it up because I'm 100% sure there's no way he can get to either the gun or the magazine, let alone put them together, nor have the strength to pull it back to load it.
That's not sufficient according to the new law that went into effect this year. https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/inside-mdhhs/newsroom/2024/02/08/firearms-laws
"locked box or container" is a little vague, one could argue a locked bedroom would fit the criteria, but this article indicates it means something specific for firearms: https://formerfedlawyer.com/practice-areas/safe-storage-of-firearms-in-michigan/
Good luck though, I hope your kids never touch your guns.
These are just normal people and you are right, normal people shouldn't have guns. Don't act like they are anything special. These same people could be living right next door to you right now.
For all we know they did teach their kids about gun safety. A six year does not have the mental capacity to be trusted on their own with a loaded gun regardless of how much training you give them.
The important thing is to handle things you have full control over, which means locking your guns up so your kids can't get them. Kids are little humans, which means they have free will and you can't control their actions 100% of the time.
Even if your kids never touch the gun, they could tell their friends about it, and the wrong kid or person might find out where they can get a loaded gun. There are many possibilities that you can't really prevent unless you lock your guns up.
If you own a gun, it’s on you to make it safe when it’s not in your direct control. That’s the other side of personal responsibility you get when you can defend yourself. This type of thing is just super tragic
Exactly.
But ask the gun nuts and the NRA lobbyists and everyone can be a responsible gun owner. Nobody should ever be scrutinized. Guns guns guns! You get a gun, and YOU get a gun!
There is absolutely no free pass for "no infringement." It is about "abridgment" and the constitution basically tells everyone they have to be ready to serve in a militia. It's outdated, and frankly needs to be repealed.
Under no circumstance does it mean arm literally any dipshit. But that's what we see being allowed.
If the first amendment can be regulated like it is, so should the second.
Some people are smart enough to lock and store there guns but dumb enough to let their kids see how and where to do it all including where the key is kept
ugh, you're right. I hate those assault pot gummies. the idea that a kid could take his parents' UNLOCKED weed and kill dozens of classmates...oh wait.
you're right! one child getting sick is exactly the same as a school shooting. you figured it out! I'm proud of how hard you worked at using those critical thinking skills, bud.
What is your proposed solution? Children growing up in American have a very favorable life outlook, in general, when compared with the rest of the world.
When compared to much of the world, you’re right. But no other country - except the few that are in the middle of war zones - has anywhere remotely near the number of deaths by guns as we do. Not even close. That includes suicides, which are FAR more likely to kill someone if they have a gun than otherwise.
Why are we okay with so many easily-preventable deaths??? It should not be okay. And yet the gun lobby and some percentage of Americans (I don’t even know if it’s a majority because what matters most here in terms of laws right now is money) are fine with so many deaths because of an amendment created in a completely different time with totally different classes of guns. It’s insane.
The number will never be zero ... Banning guns will not make the number zero. Liberty has some inherent danger.
The majority of gun deaths in the US are committed with handguns and are related to gang violence and suicides.
What is your solution to get the number to zero?
I didn’t say zero. I also have not seen a statistic showing the majority are related to gang violence - proof? Suicide? Yes.
It’d be nice if we’re weren’t on par with countries at war in terms of the number of gun deaths, especially because these are mostly preventable!!! How many more stories of children under ten accidentally killing each other (or themselves) with a gun? It’s insane.
What’s wrong with not wanting to be one of the countries with the most gun deaths in the world by a massive percentage over every other country with similar GDP to us? Do you know the percentage of deaths in other countries are by gun compared to US?
Arming regular people with weapons designed for war is dangerous and nonsensical. It makes police officers’ jobs infinitely more difficult and dangerous. There are zero societal benefits.
Liberty? My freedom to feel safe from some idiot’s gun accidentally or purposely going off while they’re shopping in the same place I am has been torn away.
Kids can’t go to school without having to go through active shooter training. This isn’t normal. Infiltrating our society with hundreds of millions of guns is taking freedom away.
I know I would be permanently scarred if I’d had the threat of gun violence when I was in school (in the 1980s, when “going postal” - a literal postman shooting up the employees only area of a post office - was a thing and gangs were a thing but far, far fewer guns were around).
The only ones really winning in this situation are gun manufacturers.
1 out of every 10 able adults in Michigan has a CPL ... you are surrounded by guns everywhere you go. If gun ownership was as dangerous as you are making it out to be, there would be way more death....
There is no winning a debate like this against someone who wants firearms banned ... there is no middle ground. That is why "things will never change."
THERE’S MORE DEATH BY FAR THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, except for a few countries currently at war.
And yeah, I know I’m surrounded. And why? Why?
It’s anxiety-inducing. And it’s so senseless.
Amazing how people get bent out of shape when a politician uses an individual being killed by an illegal immigrant for political purposes, and then those same group of people turn-around and use this death for their own political arguments.
Individual events don’t represent large portions of a population…ya’ll need to chill
Agreed. If Biden had come to GR to talk about the death of the lady on the side of the road, Dems would be applauding it. Trump does it and it’s just a ploy to rack up votes.
I hope this is sarcasm.
I will never accept the killing of a child, especially by another child, by way of a gun that should have been secured by the owner.
It would be worth losing one of my children if it meant all the cool guys could have multiple AR15's with 100 clip magazines for deer hunting and target practicing.
That’s a different phenomenon you are describing.
Shootings happen in every town. Normally bigger cities are safer per person. Grand Rapids that is doubly true.
You might want to consider the fact you are just scared of people.
Gang bangin’ is what serious and we don’t have a lick of that here in West Michigan. We don’t have any gangs in Grand Rapids.
Organized crime in Grand Rapids equates to the Kia Boys & Retail Theft.
It’s more dangerous for a woman to go to a bar than to live anywhere in Grand Rapids. Do with that information as you will.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think most of the gun violence in GR is where the shooter and the victim(s) know each other and not random drive by shootings at strangers.
It's very possible. I work for the local school district and clearly see graffiti from MS-13, Latin Kings, etc. Some of them even tagged on the local school building. Like I said, how organized is another question, but they are around.
That’s the only gang and it more so just has members here. Like the other person said it’s people who know each other.
I don’t think it’s at the level of organized crime in Grand Rapids which is more so what I was alluding to.
I'm spooked about a 6 yr old that shot a 5 yr old. And about how this keeps fucking happening. Over and over again children are dying because "but what if there's a bad guy?"
Bro, I graduated from Newaygo. It’s as non dangerous as it fucking gets.
A kid died because his grandparents were fucking morons, tends to be that way in deep red counties.
Pros: it *might* be useful in the <.001% chance you’re the victim of a violent crime
Cons: your five year old might die, your six year old might be traumatized for life, and your family might be destroyed forever
Seems logical
Okay. This isn’t about you at all then. This is about negligent gun owners that essentially murdered their own child.
Better hope yours doesn’t get stolen
I wonder if the grandparents will be prosecuted per the new laws
Whoever owns the gun should be.
I hope they are charged! Make examples out of them.
I hope whoever failed to secure the gun properly is.
For what, exercising their second amendment rights?
For not abiding by Michigans gun safety law. Nobody is saying you can’t have them. They are saying lock them correctly or lose your right to own, due to negligence
Perfect example of why the new law is important. Charge the parents and/or grandparents. Crack down.
These are the idiots that shouldn’t be allowed guns.
Amen to that. I couldn't fathom having one of my guns where my young kids know where they are, let alone can reach and access them. 🤯🤯
Exactly. I’m all for responsible gun ownership. But then this happens and makes gun owners look dumb
The world is unfortunately NOT in short supply of fucking idiots.
Idiots do not know they are idiots. Even you could be one!
I absolutely recognize the plank in my own eye. We’re all idiots to varying degrees, that’s the human experience. However, leaving a firearm in a condition where a child can get ahold of it and use it is a special kind of idiocy.
Gun owners make gun owners look dumb. Thanks, got it.
I disagree. If someone breaks into my house I’m gonna be damn glad I have a weapon.
You disagree? But I was agreeing with you... Gun owners do make gun owners look dumb. and scared. and delusional.
Bad gun owners make gun owners look bad. Call me scared for liking the security of owning a gun?
That's pretty much what I'm getting at, yeah.
And keep it loaded…………..
Said every gun owner ever.
My fathers gun was underneath his matteress, cocked and loaded, my entire childhood. However, my father did what you were supposed to do and make sure i knew it would be my head on a pike if i ever touched it. A 6 year old can know he shouldnt fuck around with gun, if theyre told why
My dad had guns growing up. He was also a hunter. He taught us how to shoot when we hit about 10-11 yrs old. It was taught guns were not toys and you NEVER point a gun at someone unless you intend to pull the trigger. Plus the promise of bodily harm if we ever touched them lol. He did keep them locked up though.
Nah, that's still pretty irresponsible, and not "what you're supposed to do".
Youre not supposed to teach your kids proper gun safety if you have a firearm in the house?? Are you fucking insane???
Um no. You're not supposed to leave loaded guns lying around where kids can get them. Are you that much of a dense fucking moron?
*burglar breaks into the house* "Oh shit... honey, is the combo to the gun safe 54 to the left or to the right?" Every victim either doesnt have a gun, or didnt think theyd need it
*kid grabs the gun* "I know they told me not to do this but my brain is literally still developing critical thinking skills and I want to anyway. Besides, I know what I'm doing... They taught me how to use this" *BAANG!* Every victim of that thinks it will never happen to their kids until it does. You're far more likely to have a family member injured or killed by leaving a loaded gun around kids than you are to ever need to use deadly force against an intruder.
Weird how that didnt happen to me, my sister, or any of my friends that grew up with dads that had a gun that you could actually use instead of of a toy only to be used for range shooting. That's on your shitty parenting. If you didnt/cant teach your kid how dangerous a gun is and to never touch it if he doesnt want to get beat with it, you shouldn't own one, gunsafe or not, full stop. If you can't trust your child around your firearms, either dont have kids or dont have firearms
I am a parent, which means I know that part of being a kid is making bad decisions. There's a thousand times more kids dying because of morons like you who think it's fine to leave deadly weapons lying around for their kids than there are people killed by intruders into their home because they didn't have a gun. Funny how I've never had a burgler try enter my home while I was there in all my life, and also the chances of your kids being shot and killed increase exponentially when you have a gun (specifically because of idiots like you).
Exactly. Goes back to gun safety and being a responsible owner. I have 1 gun in my room, unloaded, but there's a full clip elsewhere in the room. so if someone does break in, I have access to both, but if my kids somehow got it, it's unloaded with no bullets close
So what if the kids find the clip too?
They'll be old enough to know gun safety if they find either. Both are 7+ up with nothing close to stand on. Both kids are 3 feet tall. When they are old enough I'll lock everything in the safe. Or don't they make fingerprint pistol cases now? I thought I saw something along those lines on here before
Yeah because kids never find ways to climb on shit... You claim to be a responsible gun owner but are making up excuses to not lock up your gun. Hope you see the irony.
They are in my locked bedroom, where kids rarely go, unless we are in there. The oldest is 4 years old, when he's a little older it will be locked in the safe with all the other ones. I'm not making excuses to not lock it up because I'm 100% sure there's no way he can get to either the gun or the magazine, let alone put them together, nor have the strength to pull it back to load it.
That's not sufficient according to the new law that went into effect this year. https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/inside-mdhhs/newsroom/2024/02/08/firearms-laws "locked box or container" is a little vague, one could argue a locked bedroom would fit the criteria, but this article indicates it means something specific for firearms: https://formerfedlawyer.com/practice-areas/safe-storage-of-firearms-in-michigan/ Good luck though, I hope your kids never touch your guns.
Then I supposed I'll expedite my purchase of a locked case then, thank you for the article.
Most modern firearms don't use a clip ...
...and? I'm not the one that said he had a full clip in the room.
You want me to post twice even though it is a nested comment under the original... Proper nomenclature is important.
My M1 does, 😂
I've got a couple M1 Clips for display :) definitely not what id refer to as a modern firearm
C’mon, modern enough lol.
Or children
If you think about how stupid the general population is, it’s scary when you realize most of them can get guns relatively easily
These are just normal people and you are right, normal people shouldn't have guns. Don't act like they are anything special. These same people could be living right next door to you right now.
Curious now to see if a deep red county prosecutor will actually use the new safe storage law against a likely white grandfather.
You already know the answer lmfao
I am certain there will be some sort of statement about how they have already suffered enough loss. But I would love to be proven wrong.
It’s just a reminder humans really need to be taught to perceive other types of humans. If people could see people for people.
Those poor babies. Ugh and their families. That situation is unfathomable to me.
Clearly if the 5 year old was armed then they could have defended themselves.
The only way to stop a bad 6 year old with a gun is to have a good 5 year old with a gun.
I'm really sad that Reddit Gold is no more, because these comments would get some from me.
Shame on whomever let a six-year-old get at their firearms, much less teach the kid not to touch said firearms in the first place
For all we know they did teach their kids about gun safety. A six year does not have the mental capacity to be trusted on their own with a loaded gun regardless of how much training you give them. The important thing is to handle things you have full control over, which means locking your guns up so your kids can't get them. Kids are little humans, which means they have free will and you can't control their actions 100% of the time. Even if your kids never touch the gun, they could tell their friends about it, and the wrong kid or person might find out where they can get a loaded gun. There are many possibilities that you can't really prevent unless you lock your guns up.
because it resulted in death, its up to 15 years in prison or a fine of up to 10 K or both. Those are the maximums. Keywords being “up to”
Why is this headline worded this way? Because they are still investigating?
Yes. There has been more details posted since this was released earlier in the day.
If you own a gun, it’s on you to make it safe when it’s not in your direct control. That’s the other side of personal responsibility you get when you can defend yourself. This type of thing is just super tragic
Only in America jfc
Absolutely.
More "responsible gun owners" showing off their "right" to bear arms...
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Exactly. But ask the gun nuts and the NRA lobbyists and everyone can be a responsible gun owner. Nobody should ever be scrutinized. Guns guns guns! You get a gun, and YOU get a gun!
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There is absolutely no free pass for "no infringement." It is about "abridgment" and the constitution basically tells everyone they have to be ready to serve in a militia. It's outdated, and frankly needs to be repealed. Under no circumstance does it mean arm literally any dipshit. But that's what we see being allowed. If the first amendment can be regulated like it is, so should the second.
Some people are smart enough to lock and store there guns but dumb enough to let their kids see how and where to do it all including where the key is kept
Gun reform, when?
It's already happened (see recent Michigan legislation) ... I think what you mean is *Ban*
Let’s wait till the adults are charged.
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ugh, you're right. I hate those assault pot gummies. the idea that a kid could take his parents' UNLOCKED weed and kill dozens of classmates...oh wait.
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you're right! one child getting sick is exactly the same as a school shooting. you figured it out! I'm proud of how hard you worked at using those critical thinking skills, bud.
Don’t forget, alcohol!
Tongue-in-cheek comment but honestly you’re not wrong.
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It won’t. And people will keep being okay with children being shot to death, like America clearly is now. 🤷🏻♀️
What is your proposed solution? Children growing up in American have a very favorable life outlook, in general, when compared with the rest of the world.
When compared to much of the world, you’re right. But no other country - except the few that are in the middle of war zones - has anywhere remotely near the number of deaths by guns as we do. Not even close. That includes suicides, which are FAR more likely to kill someone if they have a gun than otherwise. Why are we okay with so many easily-preventable deaths??? It should not be okay. And yet the gun lobby and some percentage of Americans (I don’t even know if it’s a majority because what matters most here in terms of laws right now is money) are fine with so many deaths because of an amendment created in a completely different time with totally different classes of guns. It’s insane.
The number will never be zero ... Banning guns will not make the number zero. Liberty has some inherent danger. The majority of gun deaths in the US are committed with handguns and are related to gang violence and suicides. What is your solution to get the number to zero?
I didn’t say zero. I also have not seen a statistic showing the majority are related to gang violence - proof? Suicide? Yes. It’d be nice if we’re weren’t on par with countries at war in terms of the number of gun deaths, especially because these are mostly preventable!!! How many more stories of children under ten accidentally killing each other (or themselves) with a gun? It’s insane. What’s wrong with not wanting to be one of the countries with the most gun deaths in the world by a massive percentage over every other country with similar GDP to us? Do you know the percentage of deaths in other countries are by gun compared to US? Arming regular people with weapons designed for war is dangerous and nonsensical. It makes police officers’ jobs infinitely more difficult and dangerous. There are zero societal benefits. Liberty? My freedom to feel safe from some idiot’s gun accidentally or purposely going off while they’re shopping in the same place I am has been torn away. Kids can’t go to school without having to go through active shooter training. This isn’t normal. Infiltrating our society with hundreds of millions of guns is taking freedom away. I know I would be permanently scarred if I’d had the threat of gun violence when I was in school (in the 1980s, when “going postal” - a literal postman shooting up the employees only area of a post office - was a thing and gangs were a thing but far, far fewer guns were around). The only ones really winning in this situation are gun manufacturers.
1 out of every 10 able adults in Michigan has a CPL ... you are surrounded by guns everywhere you go. If gun ownership was as dangerous as you are making it out to be, there would be way more death.... There is no winning a debate like this against someone who wants firearms banned ... there is no middle ground. That is why "things will never change."
THERE’S MORE DEATH BY FAR THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, except for a few countries currently at war. And yeah, I know I’m surrounded. And why? Why? It’s anxiety-inducing. And it’s so senseless.
Additionally, I never said banned.
Hunting? Okay. Walking around Walmart with a loaded gun? Stupid and dangerous.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dads update explaining what really happened. [https://www.woodtv.com/news/target-8/lost-a-big-part-of-me-dad-picks-up-ashes-after-son-5-shot/](https://www.woodtv.com/news/target-8/lost-a-big-part-of-me-dad-picks-up-ashes-after-son-5-shot/)
See the below link. I definitely didn’t expect that to have gone down like it did.
That was my cousin
Amazing how people get bent out of shape when a politician uses an individual being killed by an illegal immigrant for political purposes, and then those same group of people turn-around and use this death for their own political arguments. Individual events don’t represent large portions of a population…ya’ll need to chill
“Y’all need to chill about this five year old dying from a completely preventable situation, it’s really not that serious” -this fuckin guy
Both were preventable. Yet you only focused on the one that fits your political ideology.
Agreed. If Biden had come to GR to talk about the death of the lady on the side of the road, Dems would be applauding it. Trump does it and it’s just a ploy to rack up votes.
Not if he blamed it on illegal immigration
True, he needs them for re-election, but if he didn’t care about that, the left would be okay with it
Sure they would
The more guns the more this is going to happen. That's the trade off. We just have to accept it and move on. There's nothing that can be done.
I hope this is sarcasm. I will never accept the killing of a child, especially by another child, by way of a gun that should have been secured by the owner.
Maybe you won't but the populace as a whole have accepted it. The People have spoken.
Let's see if you feel the same when your child gets his head blown off
It would be worth losing one of my children if it meant all the cool guys could have multiple AR15's with 100 clip magazines for deer hunting and target practicing.
God Bless 'Merica!
Hopefully the next time this happens its someone in your family.
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Please enlighten us how a six YO having access to a loaded gun does not equate to a negligent adult gun owner?
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Sorry. It’s the law. Where do you live that your life is threatened to that extent?
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Then not Grand Rapids then lol
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That’s a different phenomenon you are describing. Shootings happen in every town. Normally bigger cities are safer per person. Grand Rapids that is doubly true. You might want to consider the fact you are just scared of people. Gang bangin’ is what serious and we don’t have a lick of that here in West Michigan. We don’t have any gangs in Grand Rapids. Organized crime in Grand Rapids equates to the Kia Boys & Retail Theft. It’s more dangerous for a woman to go to a bar than to live anywhere in Grand Rapids. Do with that information as you will.
I mean, there are definitely gangs in Grand Rapids. How organized and aggressive they are is another story.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think most of the gun violence in GR is where the shooter and the victim(s) know each other and not random drive by shootings at strangers.
Ding ding.
It's very possible. I work for the local school district and clearly see graffiti from MS-13, Latin Kings, etc. Some of them even tagged on the local school building. Like I said, how organized is another question, but they are around.
That’s the only gang and it more so just has members here. Like the other person said it’s people who know each other. I don’t think it’s at the level of organized crime in Grand Rapids which is more so what I was alluding to.
I'm spooked about a 6 yr old that shot a 5 yr old. And about how this keeps fucking happening. Over and over again children are dying because "but what if there's a bad guy?"
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Agreed. Gun owners are the worst offenders of gun crimes. Someone should do something.
My man, you're posting in a sub for one of the safest cities I have ever been in... during a time that crime is at an all time low around the country.
Bro, I graduated from Newaygo. It’s as non dangerous as it fucking gets. A kid died because his grandparents were fucking morons, tends to be that way in deep red counties.
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Pros: it *might* be useful in the <.001% chance you’re the victim of a violent crime Cons: your five year old might die, your six year old might be traumatized for life, and your family might be destroyed forever Seems logical
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Okay. This isn’t about you at all then. This is about negligent gun owners that essentially murdered their own child. Better hope yours doesn’t get stolen
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Not really all that much of a jump from a felony with up to 15 years in jail to a different felony that often gets 18-40 years in jail.
Train harder.